No Sylvan Library? Thats madness. Also could have "delved" more into Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time.

There should be a final, hour and a half video, with all the boys talking about the entire list and the missplacements. And perhaps the cards that werent commented

@xsteviemachwano4978

5 жыл бұрын

Great idea

@kipp14

5 жыл бұрын

Lsv just talking for an hour an half seems good to me

@ultrasuperkiller

5 жыл бұрын

agree

@benrehbeck7431

5 жыл бұрын

Yessssss I hope that happens. This is easily one of my favorite KZread series ever

@GuardianAngelEatos

5 жыл бұрын

Yes! I'm so upset about all of the cards on the list so far that haven't been talked about! I want to hear everyone's opinion on them.

Finally some cards better than wheel of fortune

7:03 he says “channel, fireballed” and i’ve never been more satisfied watching a video on this channel

Goyf is definitely worse than Hermit Druid, Sylvan Library, and Oath of Druids.

On today's episode of, "Is This Card Better Than Wheel?" we see more cards that aren't.

@thetruth4654

5 жыл бұрын

Well atleast 5 cards on this list is stronger then Wheel. Arguably just two though and that would be Dig and Treasure Cruise

@SmaugUKA

5 жыл бұрын

@@thetruth4654 To be fair, all we need is 1 card in the grouping to be worse for the title to be appropriate.

@SmaugUKA

5 жыл бұрын

@@soueu8D Goyf, Cruise, and Dig.

@NapoleonSoares

5 жыл бұрын

Somehow the joke is still funny but i think we've got to the point that i would say the cards are on the whole "better." using their version of better and not the dictionary definition of the word.

@thetruth4654

5 жыл бұрын

SmugUKA thats true, and Cruise and Dig are just as strong as Wheel they are also banned everywhere aside from Commander and they are also restricted in Vintage just like Wheel, Dig and Cruise are some of the most busted cards ever printed just like all the other cards thats reserved in Vintage.

Saying that Time Vault is the "worse half" of a two card combo is a bit misleading - the combo wouldn't exist without Time Vault, but could very easily exist without Voltaic Key - there's plenty of other ways to untap your Time Vault (Tezzeret, the Seeker and Kiora's Follower spring to mind). Also, Tarmogoyf was designed with the Tribal and Planeswalker types in mind - in fact, they appear in the reminder text of the original printing of Tarmogoyf in Future Sight. The first tribal card was in the same set (Bound in Silence), and both card types were present in Lorwyn, which was only 2 sets later.

@TheSLATEcleaner

5 жыл бұрын

It's the worse half because Time Vault does stone-cold nothing without a Voltaic Key-type effect but Voltaic Key is ridiculous with quite a few other artifacts (Metalworker, Grim Monolith, etc.). Additionally, Voltaic Key is the best Voltaic Key-type effect because it costs 1 to cast, 1 to activate, and is the best card in that slot as a Tinker target. Voltaic Key is good enough it sees play in Legacy MUD decks which have no access to Time Vault whereas Time Vault is pretty much exclusively played with Voltaic Key in constructed (since Voltaic Key is a Tinker target and is super cheap).

@pageofvoid6881

5 жыл бұрын

I understand that Voltaic Key is the better card outside of the combo - my point is that both Ben and Tom were dismissive of Time Vault because it's not powerful by itself, yet it's one of the easiest cards to break in all of Magic (which is why it's banned in Legacy and Commander, and restricted in Vintage). As far as I know, there's only one card that forms a 2-card combo with Voltaic Key (that of course being Time Vault), but there are dozens with Time Vault.

@TheSLATEcleaner

5 жыл бұрын

It's pretty clear what they mean. The better half of the two card combo is the better card. Saying Voltaic Key only has "one two-card combo" is disingenuous since it in fact combos with EVERY artifact that taps. Jon Finkel - who's on the show - won his first solo Worlds with 4x Voltaic Key main. No Time Vault necessary. Time Vault might have a couple dozen enablers (though Voltaic Key is the clear best among them), but there are hundreds of cards Voltaic Key interacts with positively between untapping artifacts with tap effects, turning-back-on effects which turn off when an artifact is tapped (like Trinisphere, there are more of these than you'd think), untapping artifact creatures, and pairing with cards that make non-artifact permanents into artifacts for some even more degenerate nonsense. Sure Time Vault is "easy to break", but Voltaic Key is a card that breaks other cards (Time Vault, Traxos and similar, Mana Vault and similar, Sensei's Divining Top, Birthing Pod, Isochron Scepter, Candelabra of Tawnos and Metalworker, etc.). Additionally, this is ostensibly a list of "top cards", yet Time Vault is banned in most formats and therefore has had minimal impact on Constructed play while Voltaic Key has been impacting Constructed in Legacy, Extended, Vintage, and Urza's Standard/Block Constructed since its printing. Voltaic Key is a card that amplifies the power of the cards it comes in contact with, and that cannot be oversold.

@pageofvoid6881

5 жыл бұрын

Perhaps I should have been clearer - what I meant by a "2-card combo" is an infinite combo that is usually game-winning; what you refer to as "combos" with Voltaic Key I would refer to as synergies. Comparing Vault/Key to Top/Key is like comparing Twin/Deceiver Exarch to Twin/Elvish Visionary. One combo wins the game on the spot; one draws you an extra card every turn. Don't get me wrong - Voltaic Key is still a powerful card; all I'm saying is that Time Vault fully deserves its place at number 32 on the list. Now, to your point that Time Vault has had a "minimal impact on Constructed": In the early days of Magic, Time Vault was restricted, then banned(!) in Vintage because of its combo with Animate Artifact and Instill Energy. Later it was errata'd and unbanned, but with the release of Ravnica: City of Guilds, the errata'd text allowed an infinite combo with Flame Fusillade, and so Time Vault once again saw heavy play in Legacy and Vintage. Eventually WotC removed all errata, banned it in Legacy and restricted it in Vintage, where it remains a primary win-con for decks like Paradoxical Outcome and Grixis Thieves.

Feels like every 3rd-5th pick is just a mistake through out the list. It's just strange hearing these pros talking about this list being vastly inaccurate. No Sylvan library is ridiculously audacious.

7:03 Oh! This channel is named after the Channel Fireball combo! Clever!

my best guesses for next top 10: liliana of the veil, jace the mind sculptor, tendrils/dark ritual, thoughseize, lightning bolt, swords to plow, necropotence, skullclamp, bazar of baghdad, wasteland

I love this series. The only issue is it feels like there's no set criteria for the ratings. Some ratings are based on how good it was in block or the fact that it's banned / restricted in certain formats. While others are like well when it came out it wasn't great or was underrated but once X got printed then it was amazing.

@ChannelFireball

5 жыл бұрын

The criteria was "consider general power level AND it's overall impact on Magic."

@Krajcik1964

5 жыл бұрын

The criteria, seeing as it's Channel Fireball is one thing. Is it blue?

@Johans444

5 жыл бұрын

@ChannelFireball: Nice, it took six episodes before we finally got the criterias defined. Would this be so hard to mention in the videos? Or did you come up with the definition afterwards?

Longer videos that’s all I ask...

@deathbat93rn

5 жыл бұрын

Create Channel for real. I want hour long videos at least. Want them to go over absolutely everything on these cards.

@alexhayden507

5 жыл бұрын

I love this format tbh. A rotating panel show with pros like this discussing famous decks, old metas and draft formats would be fantastic. Make it a podcast and I'm so there.

@createchannel3542

5 жыл бұрын

LilYugiVert that would be the nuts

@Hoopr32

5 жыл бұрын

'Rotating.' You do realize they're wearing the same clothes in every video because this was all shot in one day, right?

Putting Goyf above all the better green cards is like putting Death's Shadow this high, being a big vanilla beater isn't good enough.

I think the term "Top 100" needs to differentiate between *historical impact* and the actual *power level* of a card. It seems like both criteria get interchanged arbitrarily for cards in this list - resulting to some inconsistency with the order (e.g. wheel of fortune at the tail end, and goyf apparently better than sylvan library). Still entertaining because of the input of the pros. Just my two cents. :)

@ChannelFireball

5 жыл бұрын

We think it's possible to weight the two together and against each other. For example: Say Wheel and Sylvan Library are better than 'Goyf. The impact 'Goyf has had on Magic is much, much larger. Enough larger to move it above those two cards. Of course, it's probably not possible to get two people to agree on the relative importance of the two criteria :) That's why we crowdsourced it!

@impact24

5 жыл бұрын

Weighting both would be an interesting idea! Definitely it doesn't t have to be one or the other. :) Anyway, looking forward to the rest of the series!

I like the series overall. But, i strongly feel like ALL cards should get attention, it is not like they are not great (otherwise, they wouldn't be on the list). And hearing something about those would be awesome. Not a single word about Griselbrand or much other powerful, but not as iconic, cards is really a let down.

@TheBoss4711

5 жыл бұрын

I haven’t liked how cards get skipped either, especially Griselbrand! I thought they would talk about him more than Emrakul.

It will be interesting to see what potential red cards are left on the list. Spots are getting kinda scarce even if the moxen, duallands and fetches are lumped together. We've got 4-5 black cards, at least 6 blue cards and close to ten lands that take spots.Then add 6-7 artifacts and we are running very close to 30 slots. Guesses for the top 30-21 (in no particular order): Brainstorm Thoughtseize Snapcaster Mage Tron Swords to Plowshares Balance Skullclamp Grim Monolith Wasteland Last slot I would guess goes to another land, perhaps academy or bazaar.

When are you making this again?!?!?! I wanna see it again with the New power creeped cards!

Time Vault does have the title of being the only card to be removed from the vintage cube for being too powerful. Even Black Lotus can't say that. Edit: it's also worth noting that grim monolith and power artifact helps.

Okey Channel, Dig Through Time, Vampiric Tutor, Treasure Cruise, Time Vault and Mana Vault should all be closer to Top 10, they are probably somewhere between 11-25 range

This makes me miss magictv...

Can we switch time vault and wheel of fortune on this list?

No Kibler, Riot

Green Sun's zenith should be on here, too

Has Delver of Secrets been mentioned yet?

Basically Gurmag Angler > Tarmogoyf, and the zombie fish is Pauper legal to boot!

Nice la dispute shirt

I think everyone is afraid to take about Griselbrand because if they do it might get banned in the few formats it is still legal in.

Library and Oath are, just infinitely, INFINITELY better than Goyf. No question at all.

Force of Will in the next group for sure.

Top 30 prediction: 1. Black Lotus 2. Ancestral Recall 3. The Moxen 4. Library of Alexandria 5. Sol Ring 6. Time Walk 7. Mishra’s Workshop 8. Tolarian Academy 9. Bazaar of Baghdad 10. The Dual Lands 11. Mana Drain 12. The Fetch Lands 13. Force of Will 14. Brainstorm 15. Demonic Tutor 16. Balance 17. Swords to Plowshares 18. Mana Crypt 19. Necropotence 20. Thoughtseize 21. Jace the Mind Sculptor 22. Dark Ritual 23. Lightning Bolt 24. Time Spiral 25. Snapcaster Mage 26. Liliana of the Veil 27. Path to Exile 28. Monastery Mentor 29. Yawgmoth Will 30. Skullclamp

Necropotence doesn't save you from the upkeep damage for a tapped Mana Vault. Necro makes you lose your draw step, not your upkeep.

what about delver?

Top power 9 and og duals?

@SmaugUKA

5 жыл бұрын

Then Original Moxen will be grouped together.

Is anyone going to make a 100 card singleton?

waiting for Lightning Bolt

On this epsiode of "is this better than Assassin's Trophy?

Balance and thoughtseize next 10

@GorillaRadio88

5 жыл бұрын

Called it

Wow no Kibler

What happened to the top 8 videos? And did l.s.v have a falling out or something? I haven't seen him on any videos

@ChannelFireball

5 жыл бұрын

He was playing a Beta Draft Qualifier when this was episode was being filmed.

I just started watching this but Emrakul of aeons torn better be in this!

Emrakul in its own is not castable. I rate Time Vault much higher. Unbanning Timewalk in legacy would be insane.

Woot

Grizzlebrand not taking the number 7 spot and letting everybody down again. Seems legit...

10.-6. Moxen 5. Time Walk 4. Sol Ring 3. Ancestral Recall 2. Black Lotus 1. Contract from Below

@G3M333

5 жыл бұрын

I find it's always fun to remember the most busted card in Magic is like $1 because it uses discontinued rules.

@milkman82

5 жыл бұрын

1. Moxen will be grouped as one (as they did with shock lands) 2. Moxen are better than Sol Ring and Time Walk 3. Contract will not be on this list. They aren't including ante cards. Everything they're talking about is based on actual play. My guess: 10. OG Duallands 9. Mishra's Workshop 8. Tolarian Academy 7. Mana Crypt 6. Fetchlands 5. Yawgmoth's Will 4. Sol Ring 3. Moxen 2. Ancestral Recall 1. Black Lotus Time Walk will be in the 20-11 range. I could see Library of Alexandria, Bazaar of Baghdad and Necropotence all being above it. So I'm going to say Time Walk at #14.

@bruisermoore

5 жыл бұрын

Jesse Alson-Milkman I’d flip OG Duals and fetches on your list but everything else is perfect imo.

@quanjano382

5 жыл бұрын

bruisermoore I'd disagree, the reason the og duals are good are because they can be fetched

@DukeSlippers

5 жыл бұрын

No Storm Crow?

Where is Luis?

episode 7 and the sound is still bad...

Tarmogoyf is obviously a blue card, idk what you guys are talking about

@ChannelFireball

5 жыл бұрын

Just imagine if you could pitch it to Force!

How could they talk about the Channel + Fireball combo and not at all mention that's what the company was named after o.O??

@SmaugUKA

5 жыл бұрын

You must have missed Mashi joking about being obligated to talk about the card.

Bring lsv in!!!

@Krajcik1964

5 жыл бұрын

No. Please, no.

@createchannel3542

5 жыл бұрын

Anthony Hansel it would make the show so much more funny! (When lsv originally did the top 10’s they were great!)

@nikmidclayton5933

5 жыл бұрын

Who doesn't like LSV?!?! ...madness

Martell thinks Snap is the last creature? I wouldn’t be shocked if Mentor made the top 30.

@treasureberry7154

5 жыл бұрын

Mentor is good, but it's enabled by other cards being on this list.

Surprised Elesh Norn isn't up here. Words cannot describe how powerful this card is.

No Plow Under? No Hermit Druid? No Sylvan Library? Way to destroy any credibility this list had

@ChannelFireball

5 жыл бұрын

PLOW UNDER?!

@KK-pm7ud

5 жыл бұрын

You're kidding me right? Plow under is busted...and there isn't really another card like it.

@horseandcarteblanche64

5 жыл бұрын

Plow Under isn't even close to being close to being on this list.

Goyf the Top Rated Green Card and Sylvan Library didn't make the list?? The fuck? Martell is absolutely right there. I'd personally say Sylvan Library is Green's best card. That's absolutely shocking and very disappointing. Wow.

@ChannelFireball

5 жыл бұрын

It's an occasional one-of in some midrange decks...

@SmaugUKA

5 жыл бұрын

@@ChannelFireball Fair enough, but I'm still with Tom Martell on this one.

Seems like every episode of this is braking down into a discussion of "What do you mean by 'best'". (And as this was not ever established as a framing device for this series . . . that is what it will keep degenerating to.) Such a wasted opportunity . . .

Channel - "I think it's underplayed". You are talking about card banned everywhere but not vintage where it is restricted. How it possibly should see more play?

Calling it now, #1 is going to be "basic lands"

Has anyone actually watched any of these yet? I’m just waiting for top 20, top 10 if I’m being honest. 😂

@SmaugUKA

5 жыл бұрын

LOL No. We all have been commenting on these videos without watching a single minute of them. We're just getting lucky with guesses on the cards.

I love this series, but the intro and outro music makes me cringe

Stoneforge Mystic in the top 40, much less top 100. I know you guys did well with the card, but its not a top 100 card, its not even a top 150 card. But hey, whatever, toot your own horn I guess.

@Pr0fridge

5 жыл бұрын

shrekthenoob Besides Deathrite Shaman, none of the creatures listed below it are more powerful or have had a bigger impact on the game overall.

@WoRMaSTeR64

5 жыл бұрын

Excuse me what? Have you read the card? I think it was actually a little underrated and has a legitimate argument of being the best creature ever printed. Certainly better than Tarmogoyf (see Modern banlist for reference).