One of the biggest tragedies of the Thousand Sons is the realization that, if they had not been betrayed and then sent to Chaos, they might have helped the Imperium become a better place today by ensuring that a lot of essential knowledge was not lost.

I've always felt that Magnus' biggest flaw wasn't his arrogance, but his optimism. He hoped for a Star Trekian future that was just never going to come. Something that even some of his loyalist brothers weren't interested in.

@JIMT412

2 жыл бұрын

His optimism blinded his arrogance and that arrogance blinded Magnus

@captainparty

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t think his optimism was a flaw, it was this utter conviction that he could bring his vision of the Imperium to life with his power without ever wondering where it was coming from

@Frosty-kz4om

2 жыл бұрын

@@captainparty I think both points are true. You have to give him credit though. His whole mission was to become less ignorant. He tried to understand the warp and his power as best he could.

@JIMT412

2 жыл бұрын

@@Frosty-kz4om Exactly, while I don't agree with the "Magnus did nothing wrong" argument, his well intended motives paved a path literally and figuratively to hell

@shonklebonkle324

2 жыл бұрын

@@JIMT412 "magnus had nothing but good intentions." Would maybe fit better then?

Magnus sacrificing his eye for secret knowledge is a neat reference to Norse mythology where Odin did the same for great wisdom.

@abnerdoon4902

2 жыл бұрын

It's real funny what a certain faintly norse themed chapter was about to do to him and his legion.

@jasonnewell7036

2 жыл бұрын

That's why Leman Russ hates him. Magnus was muscling in on his theme.

@TheDakkaman

2 жыл бұрын

There’s a joke in there somewhere about the difference being Odin actually got wiser, but I like my space Egyptian tragic samaritans too much to directly make it.

@bodricthered

2 жыл бұрын

Nah, it was a reference to Horus, who lost his eye to save his family... Though of course both are human myths so there's echoes of both.

@saintlime

Жыл бұрын

@@bodricthered But Magnus sacrificed his eye in return for knowledge to save his gene-sons, and Odin also sacrificed his eye for knowledge, so I think that's a fair comparison to make.

I haven't played 40K in 25+ years, but I've been really enjoying this series, thanks for making it!

@tonydotnottingham

2 жыл бұрын

Same, this series has tempted me into getting back into the hobby, having dropped off around ‘96

@TurbosTantrums

2 жыл бұрын

Same. I was an Eldar player in 2nd Ed, and would love for Ian to look at Eldar lore one day (I'm sure he's got a huge queue of ideas waiting to happen)

@bequakynskagroupie3751

2 жыл бұрын

Same!

Magnus’ Folly & the subsequent Burning of Prospero are the definitely some of the greatest tragedies of the Heresy. I’m painting up the Age of Darkness box as Thousand Sons.

@Leman.Russ.6thLegion

2 жыл бұрын

Neat man! Have fun!

@KidsWreckMovies

2 жыл бұрын

How do you paint the metalic red

@pmc1727

2 жыл бұрын

I’m painting it as Dark Angels who are actually Sons of the Hydra

@CrimsonTemplar2

2 жыл бұрын

I’m going to rattle-can basecoat with Retributor Armor, then do a zenithal with a lighter/brighter gold. Then I’m going to do 2 thin coats of Angron Red Clear over that. Paint the trim & undersuit by hand. Gloss varnish then oil wash. Clean up then satin varnish again. Paint the base Rhinox Hide, then hit the base with crackle paint. Finish off with a sandy color & desert grass tufts.

In my opinion, the most interesting traitor primarchs are the ones whose character flaws are the ultimate cause of their downfall. The Butcher's Nails and the Blade of the Laer are mildly interesting ideas, but they don't compare to Perturabo's martyr complex, Lorgar's petulance, or Mortarion's bitterness. And I think Magnus with his hubris is at the top of the mountain. He sincerely wanted to help, and was genuinely loyal right until he faced his own death and that of all of his gene-sons. But he placed his own judgment regarding matters of the Warp over the Emperor's commands, and he paid for it.

@RemoteEars

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. It's the same thing for any Shakespearean character, hubris or over commitment. And oddly enough, a lot of Star Trek TNG villain-species. The ideal/belief is actually laudable, but when taken to an absolute, it becomes evil

@Nukefandango

2 жыл бұрын

What makes it even more tragic is that the Emperor's judgment was even more flawed than Magnus'. There was no one for Magnus to talk to; no one that would listen to what he had to say.

@adamstewart5188

2 жыл бұрын

@@Nukefandango Yeah, in hindsight the Emperor really should have told the Primarchs about the true nature of the Warp and the need for the Imperial Truth. Could have potentially kept some combination of the Word Bearers, Sons of Horus, and Thousand Sons loyal. Maybe even the Death Guard, Iron Warriors, and Emperor's Children. (World Eaters and Night Lords seem doomed to rebel with or without the Heresy.)

@MrFredstt

2 жыл бұрын

I would say Fulgrim does compare because it wasn't just the Laer blade. Ultimately, it was Fulgrim's own warped desires for perfection and becoming obsessive over it that allowed Slaanesh to easily guide him further down

@yankee1112

2 жыл бұрын

Alpharius had hubris in his own way; he thought he was smarter and cleverer than everyone else in the room. He over estimated his own abilities and underestimated his brothers.

Never forget that despite their smaller size and unpreparedness the thousand sons gave the wolves custodes and sisters a seriously hard time. Had they not been handicapped by their own primarch I really think they could have endured

@jimmysmith2249

2 жыл бұрын

The woofs would have lost without the Sisters and cockstodes. Just goes to show how tragic the loss of the Thousand Sons really is.

@jacobedler296

Жыл бұрын

Phosis T'Kar, one of the captains, solo-tanked an Aeldari titan laser to protect Magnus and lived (barely). So yeah, these guys were seriously strong.

@brosno5252

Жыл бұрын

I genuinely cannot emphasize how wildly OP 30K Thousand Sons were. Psykers in general are insane, an entire legion of Psyker Astartes is broken.

@connorchenery977

Жыл бұрын

@@brosno5252 as was represented in 1st edition Horus heresy

My favorite legion, they had their flaws but ultimately they were one of the legions who wanted to work hard for humanity and give it a bright future. They were similar to the Ultramarines in that respect with Prospero being one of the most civilized places in the galaxy. Magnus was definitely arrogant but he did things for the right reason it was just a case that fate (Tzeentch) conspired against him and his legion at every turn. Even still Magnus was loyal to his legion even rejecting his fathers offer to rejoin the imperium in exchange for the destruction of his legion. Magnus was definitely one of the primarchs who cared about his sons and their duty, arguably sacrificing more then any other primarch for them.

I love how this entire video (inadvertently) emphasizes how much the Blood Ravens are similar to the Thousand Sons. Definitely a successor chapter

@markcoroneos7811

Жыл бұрын

The inquisition would like to know your location

@paralyzedtortoise8446

Жыл бұрын

If I recall, ADB stated that it is confirmed that the Ravens are not Thousand Son’s successors, despite all the hints.

@theophrastusbombastus1359

Жыл бұрын

@ParalyzedTortoise I actually thought it was confirmed to the contrary? I was led to believe they were certified successors of TS's, and that they actively try to hide it? Or was that idle conversation I picked up and presumed it was fact?

@ZaKRo-bx7lp

3 ай бұрын

It's been confirmed that the Empire uses traitor geneseed, so maybe

I love your usage of older art. It's like an aesthetic time machine that shows GW's inspiration as well as the mentality and culture of the real world at the time.

In the siege of Terra the emperor offered Magnus a chance to rejoin the imperium, he just had to sacrifice what was left of his legion and this was too much for Magnus. Which now thanks to your video is even clearer as you highlighted the bond Magnus had with his Legionnaires

Loving the series! That shot of Tzeentch while speculating on who Magus might have been talking to was awesome

The Thousand Sons are one of my favorite of the Traitor legions. Partly because they're wizards, and I'm really into that, and partly because they didn't fall to Chaos. They were _forced_ into it, by the folly of their actions, by the prejudice of the Imperials, and by the schemes of the Changer of Ways, the master of Fate.

@SirZeu

2 жыл бұрын

mortarion was also forced into chaos and so did perturabo if you squint a little.

@jimmysmith2249

2 жыл бұрын

@@SirZeu Just a little.

@euansmith3699

2 жыл бұрын

Tzeentch, "Just as planned."

Magnus at 15:33 : I PUNCHED OUT ONE OF HIS HEARTS! WHY DOES NO ONE REMEMBER THAT?!

Haha I bet that their history as history of most chapters starts during the Unific.. 1:19 Nevermind

As a relative newcomer to 40k one of the biggest things that I'm dismayed by is being denied the Loyalist Thousand Sons. They would have been my go-tos without a doubt.

@bilson7523

Жыл бұрын

My opinion on this has always been 40k lore is wide enough to make it work. Your chapter can be a "lost expeditionary force" trapped in a warp storm or siphoned off by Tzeestch to permit the corruption of Magnus or a splinter faction pulled out of time by Chaos or a group entombed in stasis vaults and rescued by another loyal chapter. Most groups I know that play permit this kind of thing, so long as you don't go too crazy. EDIT: If you're playing in the Horus Heresy era, my understanding is you can play as any traitor legion pre-traitor FWIW.

@paolomandala02

7 ай бұрын

there's a pretty popular fan theory that grey knights use 15th legion gene seed, being in effect a loyalist thousand sons successor chapter. I doubt anyone would mind if you gave grey knights a more obviously ksons paint job, or just ran a ksons force with grey knight rules

This is definitely the best written & delivered WH channel on KZread by quite some margin. Astartes have never been my favourite faction (Eldar FTW!) but fleshing out the heresy and backstory of each legion like this, without having to read all the books, makes them much more compelling.

I thought that Magnus did deliver his warning to the Emperor, but the Emperor chose to ignore it. I remember a part of Dark Imperium saying that Magnus was "punished for a warning given in good faith". I vaguely recall reading somewhere else that their minds connected when he broke into the Imperial Palace, and that was how he understood exactly how much damage he had done.

@Reliken

Жыл бұрын

this is correct! you get to see the scene from Magnus's perspectives in "A Thousand Sons" and from the Emperor's perspective in "Master of Mankind." ATS: "None had ever seen such a dreadful apparition, the true heart of a being so mighty that it could only beat while encased in super-engineered flesh. The Emperor alone recognised this rapturous angel, and his heart broke to see it. “Magnus,” he said. “Father,” replied Magnus. Their minds met, and in that moment of frozen connection the galaxy changed forever." MoM: "His father stood at the heart of the storm, looking up at him, looking up at the burning herald of humanity's end. Every other soul in the chamber - the menials and workers and scientists not already aflame or fleeing the cascade of klaxons - stared up with their king. The fiery form was the last thing many of them saw, for its violent luminescence stole their sight forever after. The Emperor looked upon him - His son, His creation - with eyes that had seen countless suns and civilizations die. 'Magnus,' He said. 'Father,' breathed the avatar of burning misery in reply."

"M'sons." **tips fedora with way too much gold trim**

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance" When I understood that the warp and real space were not separate realms but symbiotic one being a reflection of the other and vice-versa that I realized the only way for humanity to ascend to the masters of the galaxy is to master both the realms of real and psychic like the Eldar and the old ones before them. Even the emperor would accomplish very little without his own psychic might but as he calls himself a man reveals that he is fallible as any man and his own creation the imperium of man is his greatest failure when left in the hands of those he thought could govern it has decayed into ignorance hating the psykers that their emperor was and yet using the them as weapon and navigators all while refusing to adapt and change. The warp is the way it is due to inherent chaotic nature of humanity and only by mastering themselves and change can they change their fate and if the galaxy needs to burn so that those after can learn and change so be it.

This video series is fantastic. I get excited every time I see a new episode. But... I need more info. Please consider doing a second series on each legion AFTER the heresy up to now. I need to know what happens after Hourus Heresy defeats the emperor to become the true warhammer forty thousand.

@ElonTusks

2 жыл бұрын

He doesn’t defeat him

absolutely loving this series, keep it up love your stuff

I've just got back into the world of "WARHAMMER".... Remember buying the lead models Back in 93 when I was 16 year's old And now with the grace of god I'm 45 year's old and it's been 6 months Since I've got back into the hobby Kid's are all grown up now so at Least I can take my time painting 🎨 And displaying my model's without Them getting broke etc etc... 😂

Your channel has become one of my top favorites. Thank you good sir.

This is a fantastic video. I had no knowledge of their pre-heresy, gives more depth to the legion. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.

Prospero, Caliban - somebody at GW really liked Shakespeare's The Tempest

If only the Emperor had explained his plans to Magnus.

@ZaKRo-bx7lp

3 ай бұрын

But Magnus is the biggest blabber mouth ever. A huge liability due to his hubris and misuse of his powers

I love this series so much, big fan of the way you approach and explain things, big and small.

Ian, these vids are just great. Lovely pacing, clarity, presentation, everything. Thanks for what you do!

Great series of videos a simple way to explain the lor, I love it. I only just realised you adapt the color of your clothing based on the color of the legion, great touch!

Your lore videos are so amazing. Please continue with another series after you are through with the horus heresy.

Let's gooooo the space nerds!!!

All is dust....so get the Maid in here!

"I PUNCHED OUT ONE OF HIS HEARTS WHY DOES NOBODY REMEMBER THAT!?"

Ohhh another Arbitor Ian lore video! My Friday just got even better!

Surprised the Rubric wasn't brought up. I know it's much later in the timeline but it's such a keystone for the legion in 40k.

@jimmysmith2249

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. 40k. This is about 30k.

@solarus2120

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimmysmith2249 wasn't expecting a deepdive for the exact reason you mention. I'm merely saying I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned at all.

The more I learn about Magnus, the more I like him. Yeah, sure he made few mistakes and was arrogant, but the people around him also didn’t try to understand him much :). And hearing about the Thousand Sons lore before Heresy, they sound almost like my custom 40k chapter - in their quest for knowledge, heh.

Wow I had no idea how complex the sons story was! Really awesome vid!

I just finished my 40K Aspiring Sorcerer cosplay. TONS of work but it’s so cool!

Your work is awesome. Thank you! Grettings from Brazil.

Incredible video, such talented writing by Ian

How didn’t the Emperor foreseen Horus betrayal when Horus last name was literally Heresy?

@pmc1727

2 жыл бұрын

His last name was Lupercal after the cave in Rome.

@slymarbo1183

2 жыл бұрын

@@pmc1727 he’s literally named Horus Heresy cmon

@pmc1727

2 жыл бұрын

I get you are trying to troll… enjoy your day.

Keep making awesome videos!!!!!!! You keep making it hard for me to say definitively who is my primarch

I really enjoy these videos, they make me want to learn more about the history and lore of the Warhammer 40k universe. History of Xeno's in the future? Yes... Yes I know, Heresy!!!

Been looking forward to this one! Cheers!

I really love the way you narrate things, and your voice ! I was wondering tho, would you consider doing a serie about how the traitor became Demon Primarchs ?

I just started diving into the grimdark lore and it has been so hard to find a content creator who isn’t cringey asf to listen to. Thank you Arbitor Ian for keeping it real and not getting to theatrical 😂💯

One of my favourite chapters, good video. Salamanders next :)

Been waiting for this one! Love my space wizard boys

These Legion Origins videos really come across as obituaries, almost, and recorded with such a mourning tone. At the end of the video, it's spoken like they're in an open casket for us to see.

Great stuff, always entertaining!

Ooooo a near 20 minute ep on thousand sons? This is going to be good

So wait, this Legion didn't begin like all the Legions in the Unification Wars?

@ArbitorIan

2 жыл бұрын

No! It began WEIRDLY

You really ARE color coordinating your shirts with the legions, aren't you :D

Yeeeessss been waiting on this one 🙌

Nice one, Ian.

You ready for the brain meltdown when you do the XXth?

OK i know for a fact this history of this legion, UNLIKE all the legions does NOT start during the unification wars on Terra

Next the warmaster himself HORUS !!!

Great stuff, as always. Still doesn’t explain the nipple horns though.

Thanks for the video.

Good vids pal.

Ohhhh there once was a Primarch named Magnus "The Red" who crashed down to Prospero from old Rorikstead

You left a good important bit out. When Magnus enters the imperial Palace and confronts his father.

Arbitor Ian- do you theme your overshirts to the legions you discuss in your videos? Got a feeling you were wearing light green for the Death Guard and a blue for Ultramarines

I have a theory, the flesh change was part of the emperor’s plan and the ascendants became the Legion of the Damned…manifesting when needed like the imperial saints.

really fking love these HH vids

The thousand sons are in the end a betrayed loyalist chapter .

There rumor that the Blood Ravens from the Thousand Sons but doesn't suffer the flesh change what do you guys think?

@CrimsonTemplar2

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it’s turning into one of those “well known” secrets.

@dominicvucic8654

2 жыл бұрын

Well if arhriman is to be believed and azharaya vidya was apart of the thousand sons legion and maybe he did some shenanigans to save his brothers

@ArbitorIan

2 жыл бұрын

It's just one of those rumours that the fans pass around for so long people think it's true. I mean, MAAAAYYBBEE but there's no real evidence other than them being a bit more psychic than normal.

@LordyT34

2 жыл бұрын

@@ArbitorIan I'd love to hear your theory Ian! I've heard the argument that the White Scars might be their gene chapter as well

Kinda surprised you didn't mention anything ahour Ahriman and the rubricization of the legion

One word....finally !!!

I think the Thousand Sons are my favourite Legion. I relate a lot to Magnus, being very idealistic and yet oftentimes arrogant and absolutely sure of those beliefs is just very close to how I am. I just wish someone at my lgs hadn't already chosen them 😭

@jimmysmith2249

2 жыл бұрын

So do them anyways. The Thousand Sons are always few, so more are always welcome.

@lesbianmorgoth652

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimmysmith2249 I might! Just need to think of a good backstory for them to stay loyal, don't want to do the same Magnus/Guard of the Crimson King army the guy who picked them first is doing.

Been really enjoying this series of videos, I also have a question, do you think there are more Astartes in the 41st millennium than there were at the height of the great crusade?

@Mash_Lives

2 жыл бұрын

Great crusade : let's round it up to 100k marines for each of the twenty legions, so 2 millions 41st Millenium : rumored to be a thousand chapters, even if we consider them optimisticaly at full strength, that would give only one million astartes.

honestly, i kind of like the Thousand sons, and if only because they believed that there could be a better future. Also, i really like their Pre Heresy Visual Design.

The squat exo suit silence continues! You did see them didn't you?

Did Magnus ever learn the truth about Horus' betrayal with the Space Wolves? It's so sad to think Magnus and Russ still to this day don't know they'd been played

@DivebombMovies

Жыл бұрын

I can't remember exactly, but I think Russ had realised he had been played by the end of the horus heresy series of books, possibly in Wolfsbane? and even more sketchy memory than that, the shards of Magnus that Ahriman talks to in the Ahriman books had knowledge of this happening, but that's set closer to the 'now' timeline of 40k.

Finally my dust boys!

Magnus is my second favourite primarch. Behind Sanguinius...

With what the emperor did to the thousand sons... Him now being stuck on a throne and worshipped againist his fundemental ideals is the perfect karma

In the CW Arrowverse, it is all Barry's fault. In the grim-darkness of the future, it is all the Emperor's fault.

Just here to add the obligatory Magnus did nothing wrong, great video Ian, theousand sons ahve got to be my favourite of the legions

@ArbitorIan

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, he definitely did SOME things wrong!

So red-ish. This is an interesting one :)

Word Bearers Next?

‘But it is all right. He knows best. He knows better. He will do the knowing for us, and we will just have to trust he has the truth of it. So what he is ultimately saying is: I know better than anyone, even the Emperor. The Emperor who told him to stop. He forbade Magnus, but Magnus knows better.’ - Dio Promus, from _The Crimson King_

Ashy bois

Why everyone forget. Magnus demolish one of leman russ heart. People say victor write history.

2:21 Muh Sons

I will always be a son of Magnus. I will always be a Thousand Son. And I am loyalist.

From where do you get this info?

@ArbitorIan

2 жыл бұрын

This is from a combination of the old Horus Heresy Black Books and the Black Library novel series

Did Magnus and Russ physically grow larger during their duel?

so if magnus stopped the mutation with his eye sacrifice, why did ahriman need to turn them into rubic marines?

@ArbitorIan

2 жыл бұрын

Because he was TRICKED! And after they went to live in the Eye of Terror it came back.

A wise man once said, “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

It kind of bothers me that 40k Magnus doesn't spend as much time trying to destroy the Black Legion as he does the imperium. Surely he knows Horus ordered his execution and would want to seek revenge.

@captainparty

2 жыл бұрын

The Black Legion has little, if anything, to do with Horus, the Sons of Horus are not the same legion as the one Abaddon forged after the Heresy. They see Horus as a fool whose failure is shameful, they follow Abaddon.

4 more until the coolest legion. Alpha Legion

Love your work on this HH series! It pleases me greatly that this video was 18 mins long and so perfectly divisible by 9. Magnus did nothing wrong.

I’m reading the thousand sons now I shouldn’t be watching this but what the hell. I’m halfway though the book.

Tzeench had groomed Magnus and the 1000 sons they were sadly doomed from the start

This is the saddest story of all 40k. Magnus loved the Emperor and humanity.

man i only wish the thousand sons were not traitors,cool super human space wizards

Obligatory statement: MAGNUS! DID! NOTHING! WRONG!

@eater_of_garbage_

Жыл бұрын

I cant help but think that this is a joke statement, because magnus did the most wrong out of any primarch. Its literally his fault that the state of 40k is as terrible as it is.