“Middle aged men are the hottest” - middle aged male writer in medieval times 😂

@653j521

6 ай бұрын

Was it their money or social standing that made them the hottest?

@user-sg4ov7ng4h

5 ай бұрын

​@@653j521im thinking maybe it was made by men or its related to physical activites, maybe the become stronger or its the climax of themselves, like athletes. (A lot of times we think 30s but ive seen 40 yo dancers)

@annakalicka3430

4 ай бұрын

@@653j521 I'm guessing their patronage to the poets describing the standards of beauty for both female and male was a main reason for pushing middle aged men as "hottest" - they could afford to pay for their views to be presented as "objective truths" - if objective truth was of any value anyway.😁

@graphiquejack

Ай бұрын

I think it’s that men needed to be more established and able to provide for a family, and most younger men, especially if they weren’t firstborn, probably weren’t able to do that. As for physical appearance, we don’t have a lot of historical women writing about what they found sexy in men. But apparently Lancelot was a stud… lol

“Feet.” “I have feet!” 😂

6:54 Reminds me of reading about how difficult it is to reconstruct women's clothing for some periods! Somewhat in the reverse of today, it was the *men's* clothes written about in great detail - the cut and style of his garments, adjective-filled descriptions of their color and fabric, etc. - then just, "the bride wore a gown of woo!."

@kimberlyperrotis8962

7 ай бұрын

Men were the first to wear pink, too, it was extremely popular for them🙂

love this discussion! I'm very far from the core of beauty standards now and in the medieval period, but I have a feeling I'd've been seen as dead sexy in the paleolithic

@ericafors6039

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂❤

@monikel

Жыл бұрын

😅😅😅

@sharonkaczorowski8690

8 ай бұрын

Awesome! I love it.

@cristianproust

7 ай бұрын

Thinking that it is a social construct with the amount of science we have is pure madness.

@ingloriousbetch4302

5 ай бұрын

I'm just looking for the time period where super short, not scrawny but not quite chubby, small eyes and short waist come into the ultimate fashion

The recipe for soap is simply a mixture of potassium hydroxide and oil/fat. The potassium hydroxide comes from mixing the ashes of a fire ("pot ash" = potassium) dissolved in water. By itself, the straight lye dissolves skin, fat and protein. Mixing it with a fat or oil and water in the correct proportion decreases the lye's ability to eat the skin from your body to a substance that allows dirt, oils (body odor), and other filth to be dissolved in water and washed away.

@paultuerena

Жыл бұрын

It’s not quite that simple, there is a process that occurs called saponification

@db_37205

Жыл бұрын

@@paultuerena I just described saponification, the mixture of lye with an oil leading to combined properties of both oil and water where the surface tension of water is lessened while the "soap" allows the mixing of both oils and water so that water can literally wash both the dirt and oils away.

@paultuerena

Жыл бұрын

@@db_37205 apologies very early in the morning and I possibly misread! Never comment before coffee!

@db_37205

Жыл бұрын

@@paultuerena I don't even have a heartbeat before my morning coffee ☺

“I’m medieval hot!” is just such a great quote! 😂

I worked as a volunteer on archaeological digs years ago, and the palaeontologist was able to fairly accurately date remains to before or after the 1500s (when sugar became widely available from the americas) by looking at the teeth of a skull. Basically, after refined sugar was introduced, dental hygiene goes to hell

@warellis

7 ай бұрын

Prior to the introduction of sugar, teeth generally wore down due to millstone pieces in grain and bread

@onelazysusan

6 ай бұрын

I imagine that using one’s teeth as tools put some wear on them, as well

@user-sg4ov7ng4h

5 ай бұрын

Depends i guess. The more you bite as a kif the more theyll be straight so it might bz in the same boat

@rogueredshirt5239

4 ай бұрын

Paleontologist? That's for dinosaurs. They aren't on archeological digs.

@Alejojojo6

4 ай бұрын

Sugar existed before the Americas... sugar was produce in europe through beet...

I love seeing someone with the same flat, slightly nasal, Western US accent just kicking ass as a Medievalist in the heart of the City of London. Go on, Queen!

@bethanp3453

Жыл бұрын

Yes! An opportunity for unbiased honesty.

@rfvtgbzhn

13 күн бұрын

Actually I read that US accent is closer to older English accents than modern UK accent.

"Dumptruck ass" Yeah, that sounds medieval... 😁 Love these two together!

@marieclaudebedard6728

8 ай бұрын

Me too! But why o why all the beeps! I hate those! If people can't handle simple describing non hateful words, they can just watch something else! It's so puritanical! So: sex, ass, shit, boobs and fucking penis! There!

One of the great beauties of the medieval age was Eleanor of Aquitaine. Like many other beautiful and/or powerful women she had her share of rumors. But this idea that one had to "young" to be the epitome of beauty, is not correct. While she was indeed young when she married the King of France, by the time she married Henry ll of England, she was 30, he was 18. At that time she was still renowned as one of the most beautiful women in existence. They proceeded to have I believe 8 children together and the last one was born when she was 44. Her son King John married the beautiful Isabelle of Angouleme. She was a widow in mid-twenties, and remarried at 30 and proceeded to have 8-10 children with her new husband. Fertility and beauty were more intertwined in that era than the present day.

It was so cute how excited Dr. Lister got in hitting each checkbox for medieval hotness.

I love their dynamic!! This really represents a genuine conversation between two friends about a subject they are passionate about. More of both Dr Lister and Dr Janega please! Also the topic is really interesting

I’ve learned about Hildegard of Bingen but I have never heard she was a skin care girly. Love it!

@AmaraJordanMusic

3 ай бұрын

She’s my confirmation saint, so I adore her, but I didn’t know this! 😅

Great discussion. Two very bright women . Full of wit and humour .

Mucilage is the softening agent in the barley water, Irish root is a stabilizer and anchors scent

I love seeing these two together! Going through the list of medieval beauty standards cracked me up, especially the dumptruck a**

Organic distilled rosewater is an ancient cosmetic product that I love. It smooths, moisturizes and softens skin without adding any grease or oil, and it smells wonderful. I can’t stand greasy hands, especially working with silk fabrics as I often do. Or those horrible candy, fruity, muffin smells they put in everything nowadays, give me florals instead.

@alinashirinian2485

6 ай бұрын

I second this! Rosewater is amazing both as a cosmetic product and as a culinary ingredient.

@VS-re1sr

5 ай бұрын

I love learning about ancient beauty because the mix of "why don't we do this anymore?" and "this is why we do not do this anymore" is just insane. Caring for hair by brushing out the dead skin cells to clean hair seems to be coming back in the form of the curly girl method. Officially we no longer whiten skin with lead, mercury, or arsenic unless you find a lightening cream that actually works. We no longer drip belladonna in our eyes to achieve the appearance of deadly desire. We only inject neurotoxins (botox) in our faces and take a lot of unregulated pills/powders/potions of unknown content to acheive the perfect body, so clearly we have come a long way.

@user-ut7wz7mh2r

4 ай бұрын

Thirded! Rosewater is sooo good for delicate face skin!

I would love to buy them a pint in a pub and just listen to the stories.

I click in quickly quite often to history hit. But when I saw this drop I had to drop everything. I appreciate the frank approachable discussion. the compare contrast to how much has changed and how much has stayed the same. More more more please.

The "millihelen" was the unit of female beauty in the Guinness book from my teens. It meant beauty sufficient to launch one ship. The origin was Helen of Troy's beauty being enough to launch 1,000 ships. Edit: I think the Guinness editors may have been throwing a joke into the book.

@h0rriphic

Жыл бұрын

naw a millihelen is totally a legit unit of measurement

@Patriot1789

7 ай бұрын

That is “hysterical.” A roaming uterus for men?

@EllenACook

6 ай бұрын

How would one measure a milihelen, I wonder? Take pictures of the lady in question to a series of navy ships, and begin canvassing the crews to find out how many would be willing to launch their ship for her? But then one would have to factor in that modern ships are much larger than those in the Bronze Age, and scale the ships accordingly.

My two favourite presenters! Another great video, the beeped swearing made me chuckle ... the conversation felt more authentic for it. Always fun to see what insights you two can give us into medieval life and the absurdities of commonly held cultural beliefs.

@kisa229

7 ай бұрын

Except they forgot one fuck somewhere in the second half 😂

@WhereShallWeGoToday

7 ай бұрын

​@@kisa229 That was the fuck they were allowed to give! 😉😁

9:39 I'm so obsessed w a MEDIEVAL HISTORIAN calling these ppl out as "nerd ass nerds" get em Eleanor

I could listen to these two all day long

Depilation wasn't always just to please men. In those days, lice were endemic, so getting rid of hair prevented cooties. And prostitutes definitely had to get rid of pubic hair for hygienic reasons as well as easy cleaning between customers.

These two Historians are always fantastic together.

Lack of visible ulceration was hot 👍🏽

@SofaKingShit

Жыл бұрын

And whoever among them owned the most serfs blighted with the least amount of pustules who lived upon the vastest tracts of land was the hottest of all methinks. Yea verily.

@kimberlypatton205

Жыл бұрын

As was pulling your visible hairline halfway back on your head from your forehead, and slathering your face with lead and arsenic.In place of perfume, just dont ever take a bath after the age of infancy.

@heliomaxis

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@thequintanashow5058

Жыл бұрын

@@SofaKingShit right, the classic, “well, he’s serf hot, soooo….”

@fimbulsummer

Жыл бұрын

Still is, baby!

Why can't I like this video ten times? KZread really needs to bring in a superlike. A deci-like, if you wish.

Once again Dr Eleanor delivers a great insight of what ideals were like, Thanks Dr Eleanor

am I the only one distracted by the color grading being different between the shots?

@Sgirl

Жыл бұрын

Was driving me nuts. Who did that? Did no one notice?

@jillwanlin9558

Жыл бұрын

Yeh, not a good effect.

@coffeenoobie

3 ай бұрын

I believe it's caused by lens flare and the camera from the front. The light bouncing on the lens affects the color?

@EverybodysWrong

Ай бұрын

And the bowl filled with books, moves with every shot😮 center, left, right… and the mirror to her left, then not…weird

The frankness of this conversation is awesome :)

Perfect medieval man is in their 40s, so who is the writer of these descriptions? Men in their 40s

@lindahouston5635

2 күн бұрын

Naturally! 😂😂😂

I am ecstatic that you've written your book, and loved watching this. In my personal time, I've studied gender inequality and social conditioning, for over 30 years, and you're so right that what is deemed sexy and appropriate for women, is a social construct, created by powerful men. It essentially keeps women in their place and grovelling for acceptance from the "men above them". I refuse to bow to societal pressure that tells me I am somehow wrong, or "less than", if I don't fit the current standard of what is beautiful. We need to get this message across loud and clear. These days it's more about capitalism and consumerism, ensuring women spend a fortune in order to look beautiful. I think there's a lot more men these days that are far more accepting of our less than perfect bodies than we realise. Mature, more spiritually focused men anyway. And who wants a shallow man who only cares if he can see through the gap in your thighs, or if you have big boobs. But this topic needs to be discussed so women will stop hating on themselves, for being who they naturally are. This is a subject that women have been so affected by, they have caused themselves physical harm and even death, in the pursuit of "beauty". Well I say FUK THAT!

Congratulations on the book Janega! ❤👍🏻

"I have feet" 🤣

Love Dr. Eleanor... Smart, knowledgeable and a fantastic presenter. Would love to sit through one of her college lectures. That she's killing it over in the UK is fantastic. She and the other American (guy) that is curator of the arms collection somewhere over there are a credit to American history scholars. Eleanor has that contagious energy about her... I'm sure she's the "belle" of the history nerd balls in academic circles. Bet she's a lot of fun to hang out with, at least if you're talking medieval history!

Bought the book. Can’t wait to read it. I'm really interested in the concept of beauty standard as social construct.

Lye, ash, beef tallow. My grandmother made her own soap through the 1970s. That stuff could take all the dirt plus a layer or two of skin.

@ellaella2885

2 күн бұрын

My grandmother did that too around same years or probably earlier than I was born xx

Thanks guys, insightful and thought provoking. Not many more historians I trust and have more confidence in for intelligently analysing and disseminating past primary sources, the likes of which that survive are from a narrow channel of society, that resonates so much to my identity, values and heritage. I've also never felt the urge stronger to jump into the screen, go buy a bottle of sav from the bar and pull up a stool and join in too. My tribe!

My two favorite historians together again talking about a subject I love!

@moxiebombshell

Жыл бұрын

My two biggest parasocial crushes in the world, right here.

So happy to see Eleanor Janega again! I bought and read her book as soon as it was available and enjoyed it very much. Thanks very much for this video, I could listen to Eleanor conversate all day.

This is a brilliant authentic discussion! Hearing a serious historian say, "Dump-truck ass" is so funny.

Love to see you ladies! Making history interesting and hilarious. No better way to start a day

I could listen to these 2 all day❤❤

I love watching these two. Huge congrats on the book release!

8:23 "I have feet!" I love just listening to these women banter, and I'm glad I live in a time when I'm allowed to respect them. God the past sucked.

Keep your simon schamas these 2 are the best historians in the world.

Loved this! Thank you!

I loved the book! It was a fascinating read.

This was fantastic 👏🏻

Fascinating conversation!

And here in Japan we still like going to the sentou ( public bath ) together with our friends and family. It's a nice way to bond. Foreigners usually shocked because wearing any bathing suit is npt allowed in sentou.

Amazing discussion! I’ll look for more of your talks together!

I love the nature of this video. Relaxed conversation

I enjoy the comments learning lots from them as well . Nice ,smart community 🥰 you’re all so good as well

This is so interesting and enjoyable, thank you!

I would chew off one of my own arms to go and have coffee and talk with these two women. They’re absolutely incredible.

@653j521

6 ай бұрын

Would you still be hot, though? :)

Love these two ladies! They are soooooooo entertaining and well-spoken. Excellent presentation yet again!! Warm wishes from Northern California :)

I just want to know what the public bathhouse was like for an average person! A pool? Individual tubs? How often were the tubs being cleaned? Was somebody just going back and forth with a bucket? How were they heating the water?

@Neenerella333

Жыл бұрын

Many of the famous bath/bain/springs towns had geothermal springs. They could even divert just a small stream of super hot into cold baths, for the tepid ones.

@PLuMUK54

7 ай бұрын

The Medieval Stews, as they were called, had large half-barrel tubs. They could be small enough for two, or large enough to hold group of 6 or more. There were public rooms with several tubs, and private rooms with one. This was not for modesty, but because Stews were often used as a place to carry out business or to network. People usually sat on a low stool, and there would be floating trays to hold food and drink. To protect the user from rough edges, towels were draped over the sides and into the water. To keep the heat in, there were often hung around with curtains or a tent like structure. Sometimes the larger Stews had large pools where people could swim. The use of chimneys was adopted quickly by the Stews, allowing rooms to be kept warm. Water was usually heated by fires. Smaller Stews would have large metal pots, think witches cauldrons, and water would be transferred by bucket. More elaborate Stews would use the same method of heating, but the water would be transferred by pipes. Taps were around at this time, think wine and beer barrels. Apparently, the water was changed regularly. If it were not, then it would be difficult to reheat it. If a tub was emptied, they might part fill it with cold water, then place heated metal in it to warm the water. I imagine this only happened with the smaller tubs. They were probably far more hygienic than the Roman style baths which still existed in a few places, and which were cleaned less often.

"I have feet!" LOL!!

This is fantastic. Also you're both friggin hilarious!

So interesting… great presenters. More please 🙏

Love that HH caters to the ladies. Eleanor Janega is fantastic!

What an interesting discussion. I could listen to much more of this.

Excellent and entertaining. Thank you

Love the easy banter back and forth between these two! Well done! p.s. Regarding the casual attitude toward public bathing, I've heard that their is an old Japanese saying that "Nudity is often seen, but seldom looked at." Perhaps that also applied to medieval Europe.

These ladies are quite charming. Love this ❤

We love Eleanor!!! ✌✌

Well, after producing two very large babies, I have some of the beauty characteristics, especially the beeped ass. I was originally very thin…I now try to think of myself as a Titian dream girl! I am a social scientist who studied these things as part of a lifelong study of the human need to oppress “Others” and/or define what is or is not acceptable behavior. I hoped that with advanced age some of the pictures in my head would go away. No such luck,beep, beep.

Please more! These 20 mins wend over in no time.

Love these two.

This is making history relevant - and amusing!

However, I love this conversation!! ❤

I'm only 5 minutes into the video and I'm pre-ordering your book!

Even through the Victorian period women were portrayed with lips narrower than the width of their noses. The freakish, unnatural ideal took ages to die out. Poor Julia Roberts, with her beautiful wide mouth and big, perfect teeth, would be a monster to men in the past. Maybe men thought we wanted to kill and eat them?

Thanks for your insights...❤😊

I wish they would mention that life was hard and exhausting for most people and that most of the time, people didn't travel much so basically, you're pairing up with the townspeople and there's really not much choice on picking who's best looking. Also, evolutionarily, heavier set women were desirable because food supplies were not reliable year by year, at the most and skinny, thin people didn't last as long in times of famine, so being heavy set was attractive because it meant that you had plenty!

I just downloaded this book, I’m looking forward to reading it! :)

I love these two. Fascinating discussion

Epic!!

The volume on this video is very low. It's difficult to hear what they say. Please ensure the audio volume is normalized (preferably with some compression as well).

Am sure the ideal man being middle aged had nothing to do with women having next to no voice on the matter, nor many options for financial security. An ideal husband might not necessarily be what women thought of as a sexy man, and am sure there were some romps in the woods to help make up for that lol

Yay! I was waiting for another video with Eleanor.

Thanks!

There was a huge, scientific dating study about 15 or 20 years ago, where each person’s looks, personalities, occupations, wealth, education, etc. were carefully assessed. The conclusions: 1. women selected men based on their height, the taller the man, the better; and 2. men selected women for their small waist to hip ratio, in other words, the greater the difference between these measurements, the more desirable the men found them. This was the most thorough and objective study I’ve seen and the results have the ring of evolutionary truth about them. The taller the men, the better to protect and provide for a women’s children; the wider a woman’s hips, the better to bear a man’s healthy children. I wouldn’t have found a mate with my narrow hips and small bottom!

@deedrole5296

6 ай бұрын

if that were necessary evolutionarily speaking, there would be very very few narrow hipped women and short men. They would have been selected out long ago and would be considered biological anamolies. Our preferences are not by default the characteristics of the people we end up with.

@badart3204

4 ай бұрын

@@deedrole5296well it’s moreso that the undesirables just get with each other. You don’t need to be the apex you just have to be the best option available

I loved the Once and Future King..immediately understood the reference. You must shout out Tantivy! And go at the lists! That was my favorite character.

This is great. Thank you! This from a Medievalist.

Flexed my calves when I saw the title for this one... 😎

@fimbulsummer

Жыл бұрын

I understand this reference 😂

God you ladies have a witty wild energy to you, I loved this!!!

Bravo! I am so glad to know you have written this. Dismantle the Patriarchy! 😂

I loved this one! I laughed so hard I think I jump scared the cats.

Good Lord, I would so love to buy the Doctors a beer and I could listen to them talk history for hours. I may pick up a copy of The Once and Future Sex, too. Clever, but not overbearing, title. I do appreciate a good King Arthur allusion! I mean, who doesn't? I'm not even British.

Just bought your book on audio.

Funny and informative - really interesting topic

Great video...except the sound! I had my speaker on max volume and had to really pay attention to catch everything. This seems to be the case with a number of HH videos, which is such a shame.

That was very interesting

Beauty is for sure a construct. As a teen in the late 90s, if someone told me that in the 2020s there would be fashion models that had visible curves I would have told them they were dreaming. Back then any kind of female A-list celebrity was extremely thin. I don't know what they ate so I'm not going to speculate but suffice to say, they did not look young, fit and healthy. It was a very unrealistic and unsustainable physical standard that really was considered the height of excellence. It makes you think about other bizarre trends throughout the ages. Corsets, white faces, feet binding, collar bone sinking to lengthen necks. A lot are the opposite of healthy and actually are designed to make women look deformed. Less human. Like a woman in her natural state isn't good enough. I don't think on their own men would agree with these odd standards, or women, but it's funny how we all buy into with enough peer pressure. The moral I guess is to get to know people on the inside and what they look like on the outside will become your standard.

@cw9007

Жыл бұрын

Also eyebrows. Eyebrows were not allowed in the late 90 early 00s, now people are basically tattooing on unibrows.

@CookingWithMichaelD

6 ай бұрын

Other than the very skinnyI miss the look on the women 1990s early 2000

@irenejohnston6802

Ай бұрын

Now is its huge trout lips, monstrous backsides, gross breasts. Gel/acrylic long talons, plastic eyelashes. Makeup application all from same mold.

They mention of the breast shape had me snorting my tea out. My brother and I did 14th century reenactment for some years (he still does) and when we did our resources the term "collarbone boobies" came up... I love Kate on her own, but with Eleanor it's just brilliant. I enjoyed every minute of that.

5:31 in and there is already like 3 bleeps 😂😂😂 considering which podcast this is from that’s light 😂😂😂

14:44 Q - is or isn't the Voynich manuscript a Trotula with unusual lettering and abbreviations?

Iris root I think is referring to "orris root" which is a component of perfumes even today so maybe it was to make the rest of the concoction a bit nicer smelling?