Tbh Chandler being not gay really helped me as a straight man who doesn’t really act particularly traditionally manly.

@naome3904

3 жыл бұрын

yeah it’s actually good because it makes it more normalized for straight men to act less overtly masculine and just be comfortable in who they are

@Sesshomaru25U

3 жыл бұрын

Am I the only one who didn't think he was gay? I just thought he was intelligent and witty, never gay.

@DanaNussair80

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly, I always viewed Chandler as someone struggling with masculinity and how people perceive it in him, rather than sexuality.

@janedoe6704

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sesshomaru25U I never thought he was gay. I thought Phantom of the Opera seemed gay, but never Chandler.

@SuperSpyKindaGuy

3 жыл бұрын

@@ericjshorts3203 Nobody gets forced into thinking they are gay, and there are literally millions of bi people out there. It's tough to figure it out sure, due to society wanting to demonize anything not 'normal' but as time has went on, we know now that normal is to be gay, straight, bi, trans, or whatever makes you feel happy with consenting parties/yourself. It's just a journey and at the end of it, you're only trying to find yourself and what makes you feel complete. I struggled for years with trying to find who I was due to conflicting messages by society, but I am happy to find who I was though the process.

I actually really loved Chandler's softer masculinity. A feminine straight man having a successful love life, that was a radical concept.

@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195

3 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU

@flowergirl5962

3 жыл бұрын

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

@sofia_aa

3 жыл бұрын

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

@KRAPYBARA84

3 жыл бұрын

Omg same!!

@bittsystar276

3 жыл бұрын

And Chandler and Monica’s relationship was so well written too. THAT, a healthy, long-lasting relationship based on communication, should’ve been the Big Writing Trend to come out of this show, not Will They, Won’t They.

As a gay guy, I had no problem with Chandler being a “softer” masculine guy. In some ways I would rather have had Chandler be a “queer acting straight guy” than a camp gay guy. Also - Phoebe is so obviously bisexual

@G_FRE

Жыл бұрын

Screaming obvious

@Autumnnn_017

Жыл бұрын

LMAO REMEMBER WHEN SHE KISSED RACHEL 😭😭

@CuttingGrass___

Жыл бұрын

Bro phoebe never dated a girl plus she's not real, she's a character, so if the writers didn't say that she's bi then she's not , tf

@billydeeuk

Жыл бұрын

@@CuttingGrass___ In “The One With Rachel’s Big Kiss”, Phoebe talks about having kissed girls in the past and she kisses Rachel onscreen

@Volgher

Жыл бұрын

@@billydeeuk she also gets stunned by Ross and Monica's cousin and daydreams about Monica's boobs

From my point of view, the most stereotypical "closet" gay character is without a doubt Ross (I specifically want to clarify what that is, a stereotype!). Ross is the one who dressed as a girl and played with dolls as a child, the one who is afraid that his son will play with Barbies, the one who does not want a babysitter boy, the one who is afraid to show any kind of behavior that could be "misunderstood" as sensitive. He is also the one who still seeks his parents' approval in everything, and who was reprimanded as a child by his father for being too sensitive (he confesses to the babysitter). Chandler never gave me the "gay air", rather the air of a masculine non-macho, which I think was what the authors were going for.

@thecabbageman1

2 жыл бұрын

I think Ross is more of a cautionary tale for toxic masculinity and more spesfiically, the societal pressure that's part of it. A lot of his negative traits and most of his mistakes in the show stem from him supressing sides of his personality that doesn't align with the "macho alpha male" type he feels he needs to be due to the way society and his parents think. His insecurity with Rachel, how fast he proposed to Emily, blaming himself for his first wife's coming out, the whole nanny and GI Joe storylines, his unwillingness to be open about his feelings for Rachel, and a lot more tie to that.

@mrsingleb

2 жыл бұрын

you forgot the nap on Joey chest

@maja1135

2 жыл бұрын

not to forget him marrying a lesbian which can be seen as self-sabotage or bearding

@iloveeeeeecats

Жыл бұрын

some of it is just seen as toxic masculinity but i think it might be internalized homophobia

@VanAkita

Жыл бұрын

And yet people idolise his relationship with Rachel. His obsessive crush on her ruined every other girl that passed through his life. Not to mention that it is very common for a closeted gay to obsess over a relationship with an attractive woman so that he has a not so obvious beard. Ross is a toxic character overall.

I think Chandler being gay and having an LGBT father would feed into the stereotype of having lgbt parents makes you gay which is completely false. I also agree that having a feminine straight guy quite beneficial itself.

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

Chandler was clearly straight, but he was scared of homosexuality. With his father being trans and his mother an erotic symbol, with growing up so insecure and awkward, and then people calling him gay all the time, he is probably just scared of the thought that maybe he’s gay because of these reasons when he clearly isn’t. All these comments saying that he should be gay would literally just piss him off

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

Ross was also uncomfortable with homosexuality because of what happened with his ex wife

@nandaflorentino

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. It would be an issue. Like Rachel Berry, for example, they would never made her and Quinn canon as Rachel has 2 dads. Straightland would freak out

@kyle857

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, you nailed it.

@highdefinition450

2 жыл бұрын

That was my thought as well tbh

Why does everyone care so much about Chandler's sexual orientation when Phoebe is obviously bisexual? She was attracted to Ross and Monica's cousin and immediately answered "Rachel" when she was asked who she would date if she was gay. She was so obviously bisexual. If it isn't already clear I'm a huge Phoebe fan. I always love the oddball of the group.

@RuuBjAh1

3 жыл бұрын

She's the best for sure haha!

@lovableasshole

3 жыл бұрын

Did Phoebe even have any love interests? I can't remember any. They kinda treated her as too kooky to date from my impression. If anything they wrote her as a sexual over bi.

@RuuBjAh1

3 жыл бұрын

@@lovableasshole I only remember Mike being a long-lasting one. Other than that, she also had the fireman, the children's teacher, and the scientist who moved to Minsk, that I remember, but other than that I don't remember many.

@grafinvonhohenembs

3 жыл бұрын

That’s right! She was definitely bi for sure! Though, they are still mostly afraid to say the word “bisexual” on TV now for some reason, so it really would have been a miracle if they would have said something like that back in the day.

@Grotomode

3 жыл бұрын

Cause a woman being bisexual (or rather "straight" with an alluded parallel interest in women as well) has always been a common straight man's fetish. So it is not as "shocking" as a guy being gay.

"Write it gay, play it straight" me in highschool

@pauljames5826

2 жыл бұрын

Me in, well, Middle School

@hassanalkhalaf1115

2 жыл бұрын

me all my life

they didn't make Chandler gay but they did surely made him Joe's sugar daddy!!!

@MalenaLorente

Жыл бұрын

And this is the only fact.

@do9138

Жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Best gay joke friends did is when Ross says that Susan and Carol have a lot of books about being a lesbian. Susan says, with perfect delivery, "Well, you know, you have to take a course. Otherwise they don't let you do it"

@falciforme

3 жыл бұрын

i think the best one is after Ross's hook-up with the xerox girl. he's at Carol's and she looks at Ross like "you slept with another woman?" and Ross goes "ah, you're one to talk"

@vanimapermai

3 жыл бұрын

I would have left a like but you have 69 likes

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

@peachesngravy

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae why are you writing this under almost every comment? Heard you the first time lmao

@AWSVids

3 жыл бұрын

I think my favourite is in the alternate “What if?” episode, where Carol never came out and Ross still didn’t know, until Rachel was like “Well you might wanna tell this guy that it sounds like his wife is gay.” And Ross is just like... “She is not... she’s gay... she’s gay... OH SHE IS SO GAAY!!!” Schwimmer’s performance there is great, but then Aniston steals it with “I’m sorry your wife is gay.” “I guess women aren’t that great either.” “Try telling my wife that.” 🤣

I always thought the show hinted at him being bi

@jimd8292

3 жыл бұрын

That would have been great

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

@captainhugs2188

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae why would it spoil the series?

@mateokunzer

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae nobody cares shut up

@mahho1372

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae So assuming a fictional character's sexuality is spoiling the show? Please take your homophobia somewhere else

When I watched the show, I never really assumed Chandler was gay/bi. I just thought he was a slightly less masculine straight guy. On the other hand, I always had a feeling that Joey could be gay/bi. I know, unpopular. But he never seemed to have a problem with kissing guys (like he kissed Chandler on New Year’s, he wanted to kiss all the guys for practice for a role or something and when Ross kissed him, he said it was a good kiss and how Rachel was a lucky girl). And his nap with Ross?? I mean he was the one who wanted to do it again. I know Joey is known for being the most masculine guy out of the three but I never felt like this. I mean there were SO many moments where he wasn’t afraid of being more feminine like him and his ‘man’s bag’, wasn’t afraid to admit that he cries at sad movies, didn’t have a problem putting on women’s underwear and liked it, when the real estate lady assumed him and Chandler were a couple and Chandler denied it, he was so offended and was like ‘what I’m not good enough for you?’ or when he lived with that Janine girl for a while, Chandler yelled at him and made fun of him for having ‘girly’ decorations in his place so he got rid of them by putting them all in his room… I mean ?? There are so many instances of him being more feminine or straight up okay with kissing guys. Nobody seems to notice this only because he gets the most girls… My theory is that he was bi/gay and realized at some point during the show but decided not to come out to his friends in fear that they would judge him (especially Chandler and Ross).

@nesie.noodles6541

2 жыл бұрын

this is so interesting I've never heard of something headcanoning joey as gay or bisexual. this makes so much sense though.

@gabrielabagala

2 жыл бұрын

haha for me Ross is the real "gay in the closet"... but your points are good too

@alexrafe2590

2 жыл бұрын

Or maybe the point the writers were making was that Joey was so relaxed about his sexuality as a heterosexual man that he wasn’t worried about how people perceived him. Much was also made of Joey being Italian. And Mediterranean cultures tend to be much more relaxed about men being physically affectionate with other men, without it being about sex. That’s the way I always interpreted Joey’s behaviour. He was just more comfortable expressing his affection towards people he was fond of, without getting hung up about how others might interpret what that ‘says’ about him. Ross and Chandler were much more neurotic in that regard.

@thedusty194

2 жыл бұрын

I just thought of him as confident in himself, and not afraid to be himself.

@sayhitomymom6969

2 жыл бұрын

Being bi really suits him, but I dont think he would be gay. Did you really consider, that being confident and not feeling shame about doing some "girly" things is gay? Thats where all the restrictions for men come from. Joey is an excellent representation of a non-toxic heterosexuality.

I loved that's he's a straight guy in touch with his feminine energy. He loved musicals, dressed very preppy, was very sensitive, and I could go on and on. I thought they wrote the Chandler character perfectly. I LOVE all of the friends but Chandler was special (but then I guess I could say that about all of them. I have different opinions on different days).

@do9138

Жыл бұрын

I fell in love with Chandler in the first epi and never changed.

@jabyerackonstanza

Жыл бұрын

so trueeee

As a queer person I’m fine having chandler not be gay, only because i truly think him and Monica are perfect together. Like someone said in the comments, it was obvious phoebe is bisexual. I think that chandler being very feminine shows that feminine guys can be straight lol. Which is a big issue in our society. Obvi queer representation is an issue as well, but i feel its important to have non masculine male characters, esp those who are shown to be wonderful people.

@ravenfrancis1476

3 жыл бұрын

Straight people, even gender nonconforming straight people, are not an underrepresented minority and should not be used as an excuse to not have a character obviously coded to be gay, actually be gay.

@juanakogutek3355

3 жыл бұрын

yea, i like that chandler is striaght because it shows that you can be femenine and straight

@pilargonzalezolivera32

3 жыл бұрын

@@ravenfrancis1476 straight people aren't a minority, but feminine straight guys are, since they get oppressed for being themselves, and they also need representation

@FaliusAren

3 жыл бұрын

They may be perfect together but they're still homophobic transphobes

@elizahildenbrand2934

3 жыл бұрын

i feel like phoebe was definitely pan and chandler (despite them straightening him) was bi

For me the joke is always on Chandler's fear about "looking gay" whilst everybody around him is cool with it. He is the joke, not being gay but the fear of being percieved as one.

@mwva13

3 жыл бұрын

Great point! (As a hetero-guy) I remember watching this show as a teen, and for me the fear was not 'being' gay, but others treating me poorly because they thought I was.

@amuro9624

3 жыл бұрын

Every time I see this kind of video analyzing friends they seem to not get the humor of friends. I've seen a video saying the show was homophobic because of the episode where a guy pretending to be gay to fit in with other ice skaters has to come out as straight to pheobe or episodes where the characters aren't comfortable with something being gay. The joke is the way they react and their insecurity, not the gayness.

@bakerfritz4681

3 жыл бұрын

Hetero men who aren’t homophobic still don’t want to be perceived as gay because they don’t want women to think they’re gay. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s the fear, I think.

@belkyhernandez8281

3 жыл бұрын

Same here. I thought the larger point was about challenging expectations of masculinity and how that was conflated with sexual orientation.

@SapphWolf

3 жыл бұрын

@@amuro9624 Eh, I dunno, maybe it was because I was in the closet at the time but those jokes just made me uncomfortable. Like, being afraid of being thought of as gay was my waking nightmare so it really wasn't that funny to me.

As a young teen gay boy growing up down south in the mid nineties, episode 8 of friends was a life changing moment. They had actually shown a guy being offered a date with another man, like it was nothing abnormal at all. This was very different from my experience growing up. Keep up the great work!

I have this weird love-hate relationship with this show due to how badly some of the stuff has aged in it, queer or not. But my favourite scene has to be the one Chandler and Monika attend his dad's drag show to invite him to their wedding. Despite the obvious joke "Kathleen Turner obviously is a woman pretending to be an old gay man in drag", the moment Chandler invites him and he accepts is so heartwarming. Complete silence from the studio audience, both characters are moved to almost tears and until the next gag with the drag show the whole family acceptance situation not being treated as another gay joke. Really powerful moment.

I always headcanonned Chandler as closeted bisexual. As bi guy myself I relate to Chandler the most out of all the characters.

@ggt47

3 жыл бұрын

Wow. Good for you not a lot openly male bisexuals

@ggt47

3 жыл бұрын

.*

@JamesChessman

3 жыл бұрын

ok but it sounds sexual to say “I always headcannoned Chandler,” I mean, wow lol

@evieh6900

3 жыл бұрын

@@JamesChessman how is that sexual lol

@evieh6900

3 жыл бұрын

@@JamesChessman that's disturbing and not what the word even means.

Oh, he's not gay, so he's straight. Me, a bisexual: "yup, those are the options" 🙃

@rawonions8827

3 жыл бұрын

“And then there are bisexuals, but some just say they’re kidding themselves.” -Phoebe

@saintkitten9984

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like it's more about the mentality at that time instead of "bisexuals don't exist".

@hollywood451

3 жыл бұрын

@@saintkitten9984 yeah look at what sex and the city did with bisexuality for example

@saintkitten9984

3 жыл бұрын

@@hollywood451 I wouldn't know actually, what did they do?

@Artechiza

3 жыл бұрын

@@saintkitten9984 They commented about having problems with dating bi guys and how they always ended up with other guys instead of girls.

I loved Chandler's lack of "hyper masculinity". Not all straight guys are your stereotypical bro's. It's great to have a character who's like most straight men that I know.

As a small child watching Friends I never once got a gay vibe off of Chandler because he had a snooty swagger I associated with straight men - like, I don't think of 'tidy and erudite' as a gay thing, I think of it as a social class thing. But if you'd told me he and Joey were dating I might've believed that - they have better chemistry than Chandler ever did with any of the female characters.

For me it was always a joke of internalized homophobia. Like it’s not funny that he’s gay, it’s funny that he wants to present himself as straight and it really bothers him to be seen as gay, yet everyone thinks he can be gay

@anony-missy

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I assume at the time the point of most jokes was meant to be “lol they think he’s gay” (and some of the jokes still read like that). But for a lot of them, especially in hindsight it reads more as “lol look at how foolish he looks being desperate not to appear gay”. And a lot of that easily translates to a gay/bi panic reading as well, paradoxically making the characters seem even more gay. And in my experience, nowadays the people who make the most gay jokes are gay people themselves.

@philliplozano7587

3 жыл бұрын

Friends was never funny. It was a decade-long hate crime.

@malik87breaker

3 жыл бұрын

@@philliplozano7587 ok then :D

@SuperHipsterGamer

3 жыл бұрын

@@anony-missy I don't think it was a coincidence, that the male character least concerned with how masculine he presented himself was also the one who most girls found attractive. Joey repeatedly is shown to have far easier with showing affection towards his male friends (as well as having no issue with kissing them).

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

I've always seen his character as a way to say it's OK to not be the manliest guy in the room. This is actually a recurring theme in friends. The 3 guys of the group often try to play a role dictated by unwritten rules of masculinity and always realize it's silly and unnecessary.

@edisonlima4647

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but does the show EVER treat it as ok that they fail at it or they failing at it is always the entire joke, at their expense, and not the weird standards they are pressed against? I don't really remember the gender roles themselves being treated as a joke, just the failure to adhere to it.

@amuro9624

3 жыл бұрын

@@edisonlima4647 they usually go with a "who cares" kind of attitude instead of being like those 80's sitcom where one guy would sit down next to another to explain the morale of that episode. They usually let you figure it out on yourself instead of being condescending and trying to tell you what to think. Like there's an episode where Ross is weirded out by a male nanny who he deemed to emotional or feminine for a man and in the whole episode Ross is clearly the bad guy. You don't need a conclusion that shows him stop acting that way because it's clear from the beginning that he is wrong for acting that way. You don't always need the characters in the show to understand the message of the show. It seems like people are too focused on the idea that a show should set an example with its main characters but if they did that you wod always have episodes where the main characters become more "virtuous" and let go all of their flaws which would lead to a boring show. Most classics of littérature tell their message by showing the main character do the wrong thing and suffering the consequences in a tragic way. Just like the characters of friends always try to hold themselves to unnecessarily high standards and fail. There's an episode where chandler and Rachel steal a cheese cake, it's obviously bad but they don't realize it's bad and suddenly decide to become better people. The episode ends with both of them eating a cheese cake on the floor because that's how far they fell. That's the way friends deal with morality.

@onasubmarinemissionforyou

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@jamesmcinnis208

2 жыл бұрын

"actually"

I take issue with Carole and Susan being a lovely lesbian couple. They were rude and condescending and treated Ross like he needed to get over the fact that his wife left him, his life had been uprooted, and he was now expected to raise his son with his ex’s new spouse. Susan was worse about it, but Carole had her moments too. But also, in all the jokes you showed during Chandler’s is-he-gay episode, I don’t think the punchline wasn’t “wouldn’t it be funny if he was gay” the punchline was “people think he’s gay and he’s expressly said otherwise”. The same joke would apply to a gay man whose friends and family keep trying to set him up with women despite his repeated attempts to tell them he’s not interested. Ignorance is comical.

@goodgrief888

Ай бұрын

I think the joke was more about how these women living in Manhattan in the 90s find it difficult to meet eligible men, and that yet another straight guy turns out to be gay. That’s the joke. It’s more about the women’s disappointment in potentially missing out on an eligible single man. Those kinds of jokes were very common in the 90s. There was a man shortage, and the joke was that every good looking, in shape, well dressed, funny man was gay.

I liked that aspect of his character. I'm straight, but can be very effeminate. it was great to know why people thought I was gay, and why I was so oblivious about myself. It also showed that it was okay to be like that.

@do9138

Жыл бұрын

OK? It's FANTASTIC! A lot of women are attracted to that kind of man. Women want a man who can be like a best friend x 1,000. I am 66 years old. Every man I have ever been attracted to, ever slept with, ever had a relationship with has been "not as traditionally masculine" as some people seem to expect. I've been a very happy woman because I had men in my life who were best friends as well as great lovers.

@user-nc1cc6ln1g

8 ай бұрын

There are a different between that and being really closeted

I'm surprised you didn't talk about Phoebe at all, I think she made a much more interesting case for a bi/pansexual character. It comes up in various occasions and it's not treated as a very special episode either.

@PurpleMoon799

2 жыл бұрын

yes exactly!! like the thing with ross' cousin. the way she stared at her lmao

@presrvb

2 жыл бұрын

this video is about Chandler though not Phoebe 😂

@staceyalbert2658

2 жыл бұрын

@@PurpleMoon799 Women can be impressed by another woman's appearance without being bisexual.

@Thelmageddon

Жыл бұрын

YUP! Her story became so conventional, for a character who started out so unconventional.

@bi_cycle

Жыл бұрын

Idk, I kinda loved her relationship with Mike

As for Ross's ex-wife, Carol, and her relationship: I thought on the one hand, it was groundbreaking for American TV that the lesbian couple was sensitively handled - they were nurturing and confident in their relationship - but even though Ross was one (understandably) upset by his breakup, still, the punchline of every conversation about this was, "They're lesbians."

@JoelJoel321

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. It's a shame they were not more developed in later seasons

@breadfan_85

3 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say that them being lesbians was the punchline. The punchline was Ross being bothered by their lesbianism. That's what people don't get about this show. The "gay jokes" were not gay jokes at all, they were homophobia jokes.

@edisonlima4647

3 жыл бұрын

The punchline was also, very often, that Ross' ex leaving him for a woman is not about her, but, like his crackling voice and awkwardness, a sign of his inadequacy as a man, which is a jump that comes with its own bagage of problems... Her sexuality, quite often, being there to ridicule Ross as inadequate as a man, because he "lost his wife to a woman (cue pre-recorded laughs)" is not an isolated incident, though. In fact, the show had quite an obsession with "being man enough". And not in a "let's discuss it" way, but in a "let's laugh at men who fail at it" way.

@jackkerouak

3 жыл бұрын

Ross was very homophobic in many lines

@gonzaloamador7530

3 жыл бұрын

I don't know if it's because I only watched Friends about a couple years ago when I was 17-18 but I HATED Ross, he was misogynistic and homophobic, idk , either way the jokes were usually to his homophobia and not so much the fact that Carol and Susan were a lesbian couple

“It would be funny if someone was queer” is right up (or down) there with “it’s funny when someone is fat.” And boy did Friends go to that well a lot too. It was exhausting.

@randolphcarter4560

Жыл бұрын

I agree on the "fat" point you made, but I try not to read the writing of Chandler as "it would be funny if someone was queer" and instead take it a bit more "it would be funny if the gay stereotype caused problems in a straight guy's life for a change". I say this as a fairly straight-passing gay guy, who knows that the stereotype usually doesn't hold up. Yes, it was the 90s and sitcoms had less nuance, but since there was a gay writer on staff, I doubt it's as simplistic as "queer characters = funny". In the scene with Monica (held up in this video as an example of "queer = funny"), I don't think that's what's being said. Instead it's a bit more like "wouldn't it be funny if coming out was just a case of telling your wife you like musicals", or "wouldn't it be funny if your wife was so bought into the gay stereotype that even She can be convinced you're gay because you like musicals". It's a small comment on the harm of the stereotype, not simply "queer = funny". It's played for laughs, but I do think there's some nuance in there beneath the surface; the gay stereotype frustrates a conversation between a straight man and his straight wife, that's a comment on the pernicious nature of stereotypes to me. I'm just trying to give a charitable reading to the work of a gay writer, something I'm surprised this video essayist didn't really do very successfully 🤷🏻‍♂️

@snoozyq9576

Жыл бұрын

Omg yes the fat thing. Monica is a whale hahaha. Definitely got sick of that

RIP Matthew Perry, so sad that he doesn’t get to continue his sober icon journey longer than he did

it would’ve been more groundbreaking if they had made him a bisexual character. That’s something you never see

@RCReilly

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I was thinking that myself. If they did another, final season set now, they would just go, oh he's bi.

@marcosnonato

3 жыл бұрын

Because if a male character starts to get involved with a woman and then gets involved with a man, it irritates the straight audience who say that the character has been changed. If the character starts to get involved with a man and then gets involved with a woman, it irritates the gay audience who say it was straightwashing.

@tejaswoman

3 жыл бұрын

It's something you never saw then, yes. You see it a tiny bit more now, but some shows do a good job of it (Madam Secretary) and some shows just exploit it as a path to make more romantic/sexual pairings (Grey's, The Good Wife), as if all bi individuals were all sex, all the time.

@Shadow-zf5uc

3 жыл бұрын

Also a Bi character that actually says they're Bisexual vs. saying they don't see gender or just think everyone is hot or whatever

@kevinbailey8827

3 жыл бұрын

David, in Schitt’s Creek was described as pansexual, though his love interests and other sex partners in the show were all cis men and women.

Great video. Friends was a weird mixture of problematic content but also some stuff that pushed the boundaries. I used to love Susan and her sarcastic relationship with Ross. Ross: "You guys sure do have a lot of books about being a lesbian." Susan: "Well, you have to take a course. Otherwise they don't let you do it."

@pixiebosniak

2 жыл бұрын

Like real life, really

@depressedstressedandfandom7456

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to ask but what problematic content was in the show? It's been a few years since I've last watched and I can't really think of anything bad. I would love to hear what you think though!

@AliCatGtz

2 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣 I read it in her voice

@spiderwickian

2 жыл бұрын

i legitimately thought that was true the first time i heart that line as a ten year old and i was so confused

@Numbabu

2 жыл бұрын

LOL (License of Lesbianism)

once again, bisexuality is completely dismissed and forgotten....

@annalangston6567

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly...

i agree it wouldve been a big deal if a main character on friends was gay, but friends was still very progressive (not only for the cute lesbian wedding), having chandler be so funny and sarcastic and smart and well dressed and straight was also huge, because it went against the stereotype that any well-dressed funny and sassy man is 100% gay

I thought the idea was not about being gay but about challenging masculinity. The Chandler character seemed like a neurotic preppy child of wealth privilege who was insecure about his manhood and was jealous of Joey type street cred. The jokes were about gender expectations being perceived as sexual orientation. They were being accidentally sophisticated. He did give off a slight bi if I'm drunk vibe though.

@ginger8900

3 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY!

@cosplayerqueen9878

3 жыл бұрын

I mean, Ross did say that Chandler kissed a guy while drunk before, though Chandler thought it was a girl

@yakkyjoe1

2 жыл бұрын

Matt just wants to find homophobia even when it's not there.

@laurigolub8467

2 жыл бұрын

Yes yes❤❤❤❤

@koretmulder6316

2 жыл бұрын

Agree on every point - well said!

Just over a decade ago I worked with a director named Craig Rhyne in NC who had been hired out of New York. I was never allowed to watch “Friends” in my uber conservative upbringing so I mentioned after a rehearsal one night that I was watching the series through on DVD for the first time. He said “well did you know that I’m Chandler?” He registered my confused look acknowledging that no, he wasn’t Matthew Perry. But he was friends with Marta Kauffman and David Crane. And they had been working on this pilot and one night in 1994 their friend group were all out and they said “hey, this Thursday make sure you guys all tune in!” So they did, and to his absolute shock they had taken their ACTUAL GROUP OF FRIENDS and turned them all into characters in the show. And it was pretty obvious who everyone was. As it so happened, Craig was the basis for Chandler’s character. AND Craig IS actually gay. I believe he was out by ‘94 and all his friends would have known that. But I think to tone it down for a major network they just toyed with the idea of Chandler being gay and hinted at it before leaving that behind to write more straight romances into the show.

@gloriatg100

3 жыл бұрын

If Chandler was gay then why did he marry Monica ? But Chandlers father was a drag queen.

@mateokunzer

3 жыл бұрын

@@gloriatg100 homophobia

@darth_kal-el

3 жыл бұрын

@@mateokunzer nope

@Chris-im3ys

3 жыл бұрын

@@darth_kal-el What nope?

@Caio0_057

3 жыл бұрын

@Rene Ramirez About Chandlers Father (who was actually his mother) the shows mishandling of a character that would now clearly be identified as a trans woman was kind of a katastrophe. I mean, they tried I guess and the times were different, but oh god.

chandler not being gay is a definite loss to make such an impact on pop culture, that said i think the chandler we got is such an incredible and positive depiction of a straight dude, especially in comparison to ross and earlier seasons joey. and i think he’s one of the few male sitcom characters from the 90s/00s (again, unlike ross and joey) that has stood the test of time to a decent extent.

@lisajan580

5 ай бұрын

i am glad Chandler is not gay,its win win,none of them is gay or lesbien Thank God

If I were hanging around with that group and someone told me one of them was gay, Joey would've been my 1st guess. I knew someone once who declared himself gay, after years of overcompensation, that included lots of heterosexual conquests.

@wylierichardson-tu6zs

4 ай бұрын

And there are also many men with a long history of 'sexual conquests' who never come out at all, because they are actually straight. They just happen to be hardcore womanizers / seducers.

Chandler definitely feels like the chaotic bisexual friend of the group, I don't know why but he has the vibe

@mylifeismadness5465

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly I fell like Rachel and Phoebe are both bi with a male preference.

@tannersebastian3675

3 жыл бұрын

@@mylifeismadness5465 Didn't Rachel have a kiss with Winona Rider in an episode?

@mylifeismadness5465

3 жыл бұрын

@@tannersebastian3675 yes, but I think that was more of the “getting tipsy and wild in college” stereotype. The reason I think she could be bi personally is because in an episode in season 1 where they’re all obsessed with Monica’s boyfriend this happens Ross: if only he were a woman Rachel: yeah :) *awkward pause while they stare at each other*

@christopherb501

3 жыл бұрын

Considering what _has_ actually happened with Phoebe, if we're going with "the" bi friend...not as much.

@mylifeismadness5465

3 жыл бұрын

@@christopherb501 what do you mean?

As a lesbian, Carol and Susan were (and still kinda are) so important to me. They were an example of lesbian motherhood, as settled adults with normal lives. I know it might be kind of dumb to get so much comfort out of a sitcom couple, but I can't really think of any other adult lesbian couples on TV who are portrayed in a similar manner. If you haven't already, I'd love it if you covered The One With The Lesbian Wedding!!

@MinaF99

3 жыл бұрын

Same! I adore them and always have. I hope to find my own Carol one day

@atlroxmysox98

3 жыл бұрын

@@MinaF99 Me too!! I wanna be someone's Susan!

@turnleftaticeland

3 жыл бұрын

Even though they weren’t allowed to kiss, seeing them be affectionate with each other at their wedding made me cry lol

@maze6797

2 жыл бұрын

queen it's not dumb, this is literally the reason why representation is so important

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

They were an example of cheaters is what they were, who went overlooked because of being lesbians. No one points out the fact that she cheated on Ross regardless of her sexual orientation, but everyone calls Ross a cheater

I like the idea that the character's sexuality wasn't important to his personality, so when they found a straight actor who fit the role, they just decided the character would be straight and it wouldn't affect how he was written. I definitely think for the time the show came out, it was productive to show that personality and sexuality don't need to be connected based on the stereotypes of the era. I really liked the nuanced takes in this video! I feel like I see so many young straight saviors these days complaining about queer representation in Friends in vague, sweeping statements. This was refreshing to watch :)

It's so interesting, because with the way the show "wrote him gay, played him straight," his relationship with Monica, but the continuation of gay jokes even after his marriage - the text supports the idea that Chandler is bi (not that he HAS to be bi, but that the show gives enough evidence to support this reading).

theres this one scene where ross says " chandler kissed a guy" and chandler said " it was a very pretty guy" where they reveal stuff about each other in front of monica

@wetbread239

2 жыл бұрын

wait what

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

He thought it was a woman. The same thing happened to Joey and no one calls him gay, even tho he has tons of feminine moments, possibly more than Chandler

@aquelegabriel

2 жыл бұрын

Chandler kissed a (very pretty) man dressed as a woman, Joey dated a trans woman for a while, but broke up with her because he didn't like her Adam's apple.

@aquelegabriel

2 жыл бұрын

@@Johnnysmithy24 and nobody made fun of Joey because Joey was secure of his sexuality. He had no problem in kissing men for his job, and even tried kissing his friends to get more relaxed during the tests. He never considered "people will think I'm gay", he didn't care. He even tried to kiss Monica's boyfriend. He also had no problem in telling Ross he wanted to nap together, since it was the best nap of his life. Ross and Chandler are the ones terrified anyone think they are gay, because they are insecure about themselves. So those are the ones suffering from "haha, you look gay" jokes.

There was another channel that had a pretty good argument that Chandler was basically Joey's platonic sugar daddy. Because logically speaking if you broke down the cost of living for the two of them living in that apartment, Chandler had to have been paying for literally everything for most of the show. Including Joey's medical bills.

@kittyxkitsune-wolfgirlie4705

3 жыл бұрын

Fact Fiend with Karl Swallwood, my friend?

@solarvoid777

3 жыл бұрын

yup its definitely my personal opinion that Chandler and Joey are in some kind of queerplatonic sugar relationship lol

@QUEERVEEART

3 жыл бұрын

i mean they even talk about it in a few of the episodes of friends. chandler does pay for everything LOL. and one episode joey wants to pay him all back and after adding it all up , realizes thats impossible xD

@fletcheragenda6014

3 жыл бұрын

Definitely fact fiend with karl smallwood.

@kittyxkitsune-wolfgirlie4705

3 жыл бұрын

@@fletcheragenda6014 You're my fact friend. :3

I, a queer person, personally hc him as bisexual, however, I don't mind him being straight. As other people said, him being a bit more flamboyant as a straight man is still a good representation because the thought of feminine men being straight, let alone having a prominent love life was (and still partially is) an unusual idea. He and Monica are perfect together, and it's obvious phoebe is bi/pan.

I just loved Chandler and Monica together. Honestly I couldn’t imagine it ending any other way for them.

@GlennDavey

Жыл бұрын

Actually remember watching that flashback episode when it aired, where Monica's wearing the towel and Chandler hugs her saying like "you're my best friend and the most beautiful woman I've ever met in real life" or whatever (it's been a while) thinking "man it sucks that these two can't just be together... but now he's with Janice." --- flash forward a season or two...

Way back when I was in the closet to even myself, I remarked that I related to Chandler a lot, and another teenager said, "So you're gay?" That alone was enough to shame me out of even watching FRIENDS for literal years. Huh. I had issues.

@orvilpym

3 жыл бұрын

I feel you, brother.

@Competitive_Antagonist

3 жыл бұрын

I related to him because he had a sardonic sense of humour.

@philliplozano7587

3 жыл бұрын

That didn't shame me. The near-total lack of BIPOC representation (except for the occasional diminutive Asian woman fetish) did the trick.

@Competitive_Antagonist

3 жыл бұрын

@@philliplozano7587 They fetishised Asian women? In what way?

@Competitive_Antagonist

3 жыл бұрын

@@philliplozano7587 I can agree with the lack of ethnic diversity. It was set in New York, yet there was hardly any non-white people in the show. Apart from one of Ross' girlfriends and a black woman who I now remember was Ross' girlfriend, because she was a scientist. It seems that Ross was the only character to bring any racial diversity into the show.

The cuddling episode where Joey and Ross cuddle might be interesting in that male-male intimacy is viewed as inherently gay and "weird," if not fully "wrong."

@ZoeAlleyne

3 жыл бұрын

But interestingly in the same show Joey and Chandler are VERY touchy. They hug a lot. Montage amounts of hug.

@tannersebastian3675

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZoeAlleyne Right! The show is very contradictory about masculinity and physical touch. Sometimes Ross, Chandler, and Joey are comfortable with it, and other times they get homophobic or toxically masculine. Probably just inconsistent writing

@yuri2604

3 жыл бұрын

​ @ZoeAlleyne yeah, however, it is different. Most of chandler and joey moments are friendly hugs. Ross sleeping on Joey's chest is something that resembles romantic relationships which is why it was so weird for them and for the rest of the group.

@RilianSharp

3 жыл бұрын

friends has a lot of male intimacy but then they have to act all awkward about it. i like gumball because it shows male intimacy and they never do the awkwardness.

@DarkAngelEU

3 жыл бұрын

@@tannersebastian3675 It's called "exploring themes"

This is by far the most entertaining Friends content I've ever seen, including the show itself.

The joke is that Chandler is insecure about his masculinity and many people assuming he's gay just adds to his anxiety. But to a British person he does not come across as remotely gay just charmingly vulnerable.

To me, Chandler’s definitely still bi, you can be bi and marry someone of the opposite sex, so I’m just gonna take the early season hints as my personal headcanon

@isabelberger9441

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. I think if the show were written today, Chandler would be canonically bi. :) I don’t think the concept of bisexuality or pansexuality was well understood by most people in the 90’s.

@zoegranville7607

3 жыл бұрын

@@isabelberger9441 I think you're right. There was also instances of lesbian separationism in the 80s and 90s that shunned bisexual women in the name of feminism. It's a bit skewed and wobbly but there was definitely a lot of biphobia back then. Even from this show through to the early 2000s, there is an underlying belief in a lot of cultures that bisexual people are just 'in denial' - I have literally heard this out loud and it often inhibits my comfort with coming out to people as bisexual myself.

@heath6802

3 жыл бұрын

@@zoegranville7607 Couldn’t agree more, people always expect a second coming out of “I’m a lesbian” or “I’m actually straight in the end” like??? That’s not all there is?

@brixan...

3 жыл бұрын

You can also be gay and marry someone of the opposite sex... But take it as you wish

@ad8447

3 жыл бұрын

When was it ever mentioned in the show about his bisexuality??

The episode's last line should have been Brian checking out Chandler, nodding and saying "Yeah, you could get a Brian."

@aja8010

2 жыл бұрын

i now believe this happened

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

Cringe

@aja8010

2 жыл бұрын

@@Johnnysmithy24 lol tf

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

@@aja8010 It’s just a bit cringe that’s all

@WeNeedKPseason2

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yeah now I do want to believe this happened

RIP Chandler

@TheHutchIsOn

7 ай бұрын

Came here first when i heard. Just watched this for the first time a week ago

After watching Hbomberguy absolutely destroy James Somerton, I was pretty crushed because he had recently become a source of me watching and getting you know, informative videos about this subject and somewhat related queer issues such as coding and baiting, inclusion, representation and just hearing someone talk about interesting subjects and way I engaged with. Having that ripped away from me because well, he was an absolutely terrible person and presumably still is, that sucked. But at the end of his video, HBombs listed several other channels to check out including yours; not only was this video a worthwhile endeavor for me, one I greatly enjoyed, but it made me glad I subscribed to you and I also noticed that I remember seeing a couple of your thumbnails being suggested to me recently, which I added to my Watch Later. It felt great being recommended a channel by someone else I trust as a content creator, but it felt equally great having milked my algorithm enough to let me stumble onto you naturally at the same time. As I said, I enjoyed this video and I look forward to watching the rest of your content and more to come.

As a queer woman, I love Chandler and him being straight. But we were robbed of a wlw relationship for Phoebe since she's so clearly pansexual lmao

@do9138

Жыл бұрын

If this were on cable TV today, maybe they could have done something with Phoebe's pansexuality that could have been really cool. It was too soon in the '90s. The lesbian wedding was a risk then.

@lilacdreams5966

10 ай бұрын

Why do we think she’s pan?

@johannacert4555

10 ай бұрын

@@do9138 yeah I know, I think it’s cool enough that they were even considering making Chandler gay

@LaraM2424

8 ай бұрын

@@lilacdreams5966 I always assumed she was bi/pan after that one episode where she got mesmerised by ross's cousin like the other guys and thought "ask her out, she's not your cousin!"

@neihomai8

8 ай бұрын

correct me if i'm wrong, but i think phoebe waz only ever hinted az bizexual at bezt becauze there were only two genderz in the zhow. no tranzgenderz etc...

As a straight guy who has often been assumed to be gay, I took Chandler as a relatable representation.

@michaelkopelow7913

3 жыл бұрын

I didn't take his reaction as homophobic. Just heightened for comic effect. Other people's interpretations may vary, of course. As for my reaction, I find it amusing that some people have such narrow ideas of what a straight male might be like that as soon as you start talking about musical theatre or Dorothy Parker they make assumptions about your sexuality.

@mrofftopic2802

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattymariah Excuse me, who died and made you Queen? I didn't know you have a mandate from the gay community to 1- Speak for the entire community 2- Decide what is and what is not homophobic 3- Even worst to discredit and to put down other people's life experiences while doing it Get a grip. Nothing the dude said was homophobic.

@mrofftopic2802

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattymariah Then maybe YOU should learn to read. I never said that Friends do not have homophobic jokes, I said that nothing the other guy said was homophobic and yet you jumped on his throat for nothing. YOU can have YOUR OPINION to what is good and what is acceptable but don't you think for a second you are entitled to talk for everyone else. As a child of the 80's, I will said that Friends was also ground breaking in addressing stuff that was not common in television, despite being clumsy most of time and even homophobic sometimes. I hope you are young and going to the "activist phase" but sooner or later you'll realize the putting down people who mean you no harm is not the way to go. The other guy made a harmless comment you are not entitled to put him down for it, much less speaking for everyone else. Bye.

@mrofftopic2802

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattymariah Right he said he identified with a character who is always classed as gay by OTHER people because of THEIR prejudice (example: liking theater makes you gay; dressing nicely makes you gay) and you decided to antagonize him for no reason. I hope you learn to be wiser. This is not the way to go. Bye.

@mirzanmohaimi4148

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattymariah As a gay guy, I don't think that's homophobic.... You're just overreacting.

I adore your optimism. Sometimes it’s fun just to laugh along with the stereotypical jokes about us and just move on!

I've been rewatching the show again and in an episode when the guys are asked which out of each other they would date, Chandler says Joey without hesitation while Joey and Ross refuse to answer. Lowkey Bisexual king energy XD

@SevCaswell

2 жыл бұрын

Eh I'd say that showed that Chandler was 100% confortable in his identity and sexuality, and both Ross and Joey are not as they feel threatened by the question. I would be more likely to suspect Joey or Ross of being gay from that reaction, than Chandler.

The episode where Rachel talks about her gay college experience with Winona Rider and Phoebe doesn't believe her

@rgs8970

3 жыл бұрын

Also, Phoebe's character is definitely bi -- she has a voiceover in the end credits sequence of S7:E19 "The One with Ross and Monica's Cousin" where she's stunned into silence by the titular cousin's gorgeousness. Her internal monologue goes: "Say something. Say anything. Ask her out-- she's not *your* cousin"

@christopherb501

3 жыл бұрын

@@rgs8970 And of course, there was the (speaking to Joey) "I know I had crushes on all of you when I first met you. Well, except for Chandler and Ross." And I guess "Just wanted to see what all the fuss was about." Oh, and "Are you kidding?? that woman has the nose of a _bloodhound._ ...and the breasts of a Greek goddess..."

@amberwingtundrawing776

3 жыл бұрын

Phoebe is absolutely bi, its not even subtle lol

it's times like this where I wonder WHY a character can't be bisexual. anyway love this video and Chandler Bing is bi, it's official and it's canon.

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

@gianna-the-lesbian9651

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae you’re just spamming this everywhere

@rafangille

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae it’s just a fun analysis of film/tv, it’s not that deep

@heath6802

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, bisexual people can marry people of the opposite gender and still be bi! Chandler was a bisexual man with a preference more skewed towards women and there’s not wrong with it

@alxjones

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae Oh you're doing this to everyone, I see... at least write out an original message, this is a weak copypasta.

Chandler reminds me of Megamind. They're both well dressed men who are comfortable with being feminine.

As a bi person myself, I always found it so interesting that right after the initial shock of me telling someone, they would go through two distinct phases- Them: “Oh God, are you attracted to me???” Me: “No.” Them: “Oh……really?……….Why not??” 🤷🏻‍♀️

The "sometimes I wish I was a lesbian" line actually plays very well to straight males. The humor comes from the dogged fascination that straight males have (or at least had in that era) for girl-girl porn. Friends was very comfortable with their characters having sex lives. This made for good stories and good jokes. The "sometimes" joke was one of them. It's not all that funny for him to say "sometimes I wish I was female" (the "he's gay" interpretation), but it is funny for him to mess up saying "sometimes I wish I could be in those incredibly hot porn shoots with two girls" in a way that makes it sound like he wants to change genders, in our then still very masculinity-protective mainstream culture.

@Galiant2010

2 жыл бұрын

In high school I used to joke with my band friends about being a lesbian because I often related more to the women in the group than the guys but assumed I was cis because I liked girls... but that was like a decade before I came out as trans because I hadn't really discovered/understood what being trans was.

@ZenGeekDad

2 жыл бұрын

@@Galiant2010 I'm glad that a growing proportion of society is more and more aware that these private definitions of self are not matters of morality, but of innate self, and the only caring position anyone can have is to accept each other on the basis of our hearts, and not on our private preferences.

@delusionalmilkshake

Жыл бұрын

that still exist today and the ones who watch toooooo much of that type of porn often ''come out'' as trans, cause to them it is just a fetish

I was only a preteen when Friends ended so I didn’t know much of the innuendos and nuance until several years later. I didn’t even realize how gay Chandler seemed, but perhaps it was the difference of when I grew up. Chandler to guys my age doesn’t seem all that gay. He’s weird, yes, but Chandler in 2020 would be a pretty typical straight guy I think.

@Tracymmo

3 жыл бұрын

I thought he was a typical straight guy when the show first aired.

@someguy7424

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was in early adulthood when the show ended, so I understood the sexual innuendos, but I still don’t see how Chandler seemed gay. He didn’t even seem particularly feminine.

@JamesCourse66

2 жыл бұрын

@@TracymmoI think for them he was a little too campy. Guys from their generation I think were generally reserved emotionally while he is very expressive.

@Ms.FortuneTeller

Жыл бұрын

Chandler never seemed gay to me.

I am sorry but I still really don't see what was especially "gay" in Chandler : I never thought as him as less masculine as Ross, and all these gay jokes the others made about him always surprised me. I don't know if it is a cultural thing (I am French) but I don't think that he would be considered "gay" in my country 😅 By the way, on the other hand I don't even think as Joey as more masculine (too childlish) but just as hotter ! For me, a character that is really more masculine, would be Richard, because he is good looking, but also responsible (unlike Joey) and...the mustache 😜

You’re a wonderful teacher, Matt. You have taught me some pretty cool stuff through your videos. Thank you!

Also somewhat more relevant, as a young unaware trans child in the Ace Ventura 90s, his line about wanting to be a lesbian is SEARED into my mind forever.

@QUEERVEEART

3 жыл бұрын

I think that was in the first episode lol? Or at least the first season, I remember that very clearly too!

I think a lot of the joke of Chandler comes back to how insecure he is about his heterosexuality, as opposed to just "ur gay lol," though I can definitely understand that the average viewer is probably laughing because "ur gay lol"

@edisonlima4647

3 жыл бұрын

Idk, it has been sometime since I last watch the show but, for what I recall, for most of the run of this joke, his insecurity doens't ever come off as something spontaneous, but always as something that, whenever he tries to find a girlfriend, is put there as an unsurmountable road block. He is not perceived as kinda gay, but let's move on. He is perceived as gay, thusly he will not get the woman he is going after and will be alone, cue everyone laughing at him. In that particular fictional characterization, I might say I kinda understand him wanting to reassert his straightness, since the show presents him being perceived as gay as something that is often and only affecting him negatively.

@Johnnysmithy24

2 жыл бұрын

Makes total sense that he is insecure about his sexuality when he had a trans for a father and an erotic symbol for a mother, not having the “man and woman” parents image as a child for a reference, growing up awkward using humor as a defense mechanism, going to an all boys high school, not being macho enough, not being able to get girls, and having people think he is gay. I can’t blame the guy for being insecure and scared of that thought. I really believe he is just deeply disturbed straight man who can’t catch a break.

Matt, you are really helping me with a lot of the "Anti-Gay" feminine young man scare that happened in my late teens, and early twenties. I'm a pretty open minded guy now, but back then I was pretty twisted up about the idea. Thank you for all that you do, you're getting a patron here after I get my paycheck this month!

Matt, you do such terrific work, Thanks!

Could you compare this to the presentation of raj in the Big Bang Theory? The ‘write it gay, play it straight’ trope is something I’m never gonna be able to unsee

@BlasterzHD

3 жыл бұрын

There is nothing to write about Raj tho, he is confirmed as metrosexual.

@charlottesmom

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking that while watching this video...

@DiagonelleDAvignon

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! Raj and Howard even have a scene near the end of the series where they talk about what they would be like as a couple. Not to mention Raj's romantic finale of the series is Howard being the one who understands Raj's love of romance movies and makes a big gesture to him at an airport. If they hadn't hammered in Howard and Bernadette so much I'd imagine a future where Raj became very happy married to a guy, maybe Howard, the least of which being that he'd be allowed to indulge his feminine side without worrying about how it effects his chances in getting a date.

@sophiejones3554

2 жыл бұрын

@@BlasterzHD sadly... When I was watching the show though, I honest-to-God thought he was a closet bisexual. I was convinced they were going to do a story arc with him where he finds out that's a thing, proceeds to hate on it so much that the others launch an investigation into why Raj suddenly cares so much, and it ends with him "accidentally" kissing some guy at a toga party. He is mortified, runs, only to end up cornered by the other main cast members. They get him to confess what happened, then Leonard is like "I thought you didn't hold with all that stuff" and Raj is like "I just hate myself". Cue the girls trying to hug him, Leonard not understanding, and Sheldon trying to explain why suicide is a bad idea. Raj runs back to the party, trailing his now ruined toga-thing, and the episode ends as he arrives at the frat house at the same time as the ambulance because turned out that the guy he kissed was extremely drunk. But looking back on it, this could never have happened. The writers on that show simply weren't cultured or imaginative enough. See, the joke here isn't "lol Raj is queer", it's "lol Raj's life is now a Bollywood movie". Also a meta-joke about how the show purports to be a slice of life comedy but the characters live lives that are decidedly not ordinary (there are at least a few times Sheldon hacks the gov't).

@blackbird5634

2 жыл бұрын

None of them seem straight and they make dreadful comments about women all the time. These are some weird kids.

Scully was a lesbian until the writers caved in to all the Mulder / Scully shipping. Watch the first two seasons and tell me she's not at least bi (but seriously, compare the barest-of-tolerance she displays for the guy she tries to date vs the eagerness with which she checks that other lady for ice-parasites). Everyone wanted to have the groundbreaking gay main character back then, but nobody really had the guts.

@maxr5799

3 жыл бұрын

I can see that, but I want to see the receipts

@NovemberXXVII

3 жыл бұрын

What really strikes me is that is all these cases where whoever was actually guiding a show went "Naw" when given perfectly good opportunities. There were definitely people who really wanted groundbreaking gay characters, but it doesn't seem like many of them were positions to makes that happen.

@mirrimaaz

3 жыл бұрын

Scully was always intended to be a potential/slow burn love interest for Mulder. Pamela Anderson was considered for the role before Gillian because they wanted a famous sexy lady so people would ship her with Mulder. At least that's what Wikipedia says. (I imagine that version would have been even goofier and canceled almost immediately.) It just seems like they caved because they slowed it down so much, but they always had it in mind.

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

@Gisawesome

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae Lmfao isn't one show enough???? Also what show are u even talking about? Homophobes are the worst

Hey Matt ! Over a year late on this one haha but i just started re watching your videos and all these memories from my high school day’s watching Friends came rushing back. I think this is the first time I remember connecting with a character (chandler). We were both sarcastic and sassy and had similar energy, and as i was watching this vid I realized people probably thought “that “!about me . And i never knew it. So many internal thoughts with this one haha!! You do an amazing job with this channel!! ❤

I’m so glad I found your channel!

Why is it that every time someone talks about Friends, the first thing they bring up is the implausibly large apartment? It was Monica's grandmother's rent-controlled apartment that she was subletting, they explain it in like the first episode, can we finally just let it go?

@supermarx

3 жыл бұрын

Do you ever see anyone older than the the characters as they were depicted at the time talk about friends? Young people are poor.

@margaridabaptista3712

3 жыл бұрын

YES! EXACTLY! Thank you! I'm constantly thinking this when people talk about the apartment! This and other stuff too, it's gotten to be some sort of trend to point out plot holes in Friends that were never actually there but then they spread like wildfire!

@RunnerX13

2 жыл бұрын

Rent controlled or not, it’s implausibly big!

@Zeithri

2 жыл бұрын

My first reaction is "I loved Chandler! He was my favorite!" and then "Oh yeah, that Apartment was h-uuuuge!"

@Galiant2010

2 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure the "subletting" was just what Monica said to people. I think they actually said that their grandma had died but that they were illegally withholding that information in order to keep the low cost of rent and Monica simply told the landlord that she had left and was subletting to her.

Personally, when I watched this as a newly out teen in the nineties, I always assumed that Joey was the (closeted) gay one. Here's my case: So before the show starts, he thinks being gay or bi is no big deal, but then the events of the first half of the first season happen and his best friend (Chandler) makes such a huge deal about the idea that people might think he could be gay, that Joey stays in the closet, for the whole show. I thought that because it seemed the answer the confusion I had then that Joey always TALKED about dating and hooking up with women, but unlike every other cast member, you so rarely ever SAW any of them. The women Joey was with were almost always off-camera, just left, or he and her had no visible chemistry. It always seemed so convenient, like the old Canadian Girlfriend thing. I figured that the other people on the show weren't going to bring it up after how much of a big deal chandler made about being thought of as gay, so they let it go, even after everyone on the show was on-screen dating and coupling up and joey was mostly the spinster of the group. I love that theory, feel free to make it a video if you are interested. In my head, the finale where he moves to the west coast is so he could finally come out of the closet.

@kikigarcia4174

3 жыл бұрын

omg!! you're so smart i love this theory!!

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

@yoissy

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae hey quick question friend, do you think LGBT people in media ruins them? What does that say about you. If not, why did you phrase your comment like that? Just some food for thought.

@mooble1325

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae you've been replying this on a lot of comments, huh? i think you're the snowflake if you're taking the time to copy and paste your blatantly homophobic comment because you can't handle analysis of a piece of media

@technopoptart

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae how many times did you spam this exact comment on this video? like a fly at a luncheon you just keep popping up with the same tired buzz

I love your videos Matt. It is rare that KZreadrs are so articulate and intelligent at the same time, with such sincerity and passion. Can't believe it's taken so long but I'm glad I've finally found you.

8:10 I think they interpreted “gay” as becoming a very fussy British lady? Lmao

As a foppish and flamboyant man, Chandler was usually who I explained myself being like as many assumed I was gay. He honestly helped me through a lot of my struggles in his similar struggles with people assuming through stereotyping. I've been set up on a lot of blind dates with disappointed guys. Dates were fun though.

@silasfrisenette9226

3 жыл бұрын

You've actually been set up? How did it get so far? 😳

I have never thought Chandler was gay and I never understood when people say 'he had a gay vibe'. Maybe because Chandler is my type and he was always my favourite character. I think it was always more about how guys are so insecure (generally) that they are afraid someone would think they're gay and it attacks their ego and masculinity.

Okay, (1) You're brilliant and I really enjoy your videos and admire your research and analysis -- brilliant!! (2) I don't know if you read these comments -- you have a lot of videos and there are a lot of comments and I'm coming to THIS video rather late in the game (a full year late)! (3) I was surprised that you didn't mention the extended storyline when Joey moves out, and Chandler sits forlornly gazing out of a window on a rainy day (love the metaphor) while All By Myself (Eric Carmen) plays during a montage of Joey missing Chandler and vice versa... (At least, that's how I remember it, almost 30 years later or so.) THANK YOU for your wonderful work!!

Edward Everett Horton was also the narrator for Fractured Fairy Tales from Rocky & Bullwinkel.

I just think he was afraid to turn out “like his father” (because he may have had a lot of people laughing about that when he was young, and his mum seemed to be upset by that too causing their divorce) So he was very insecure about all his “feminine moves” or being loving with his male friends or male in general. As I read in others comments, he’s just himself and as all men he has a part of femininity and that’s great that friends is showing this without making him gay !

What about the episode with the quit-smoking tapes that chandler gets to listen as he falls asleep? “ You’re a strong, confident woman who does not need to smoke”

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

@gmm7145

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghaeTV is so gross now

@welch_inc6532

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae why do you keep asking this on people’s comments?

@breadfan_85

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae bruh, this obsession is not healthy lol.

@darija9873

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah but Rachel gave him that tape which she borrowed from a female colleague, he didn't buy it himself

chandler's "i'm chilly" reminds me so much of holt eating a marshmallow.

Wow, I really love your work! Thanks!

I recently completed a rewatch of the entire series. I was surprised by just now many homophobic jokes or instances there were during its run.

@oddtail_tiger

3 жыл бұрын

Hey, don't forget transphobic as well, depending on whether you interpret Chandler's dad as a cis drag queen or a trans woman (as I've seen a KZread video put it, it's not clear if the writers themselves actually understood the difference). But yeah. I like "Friends" quite a bit even to this day, but it's got a strong streak of homophobia going throughout almost all of its run. It's very uncomfortable to watch sometimes.

@mylifeismadness5465

3 жыл бұрын

@@oddtail_tiger homophobia/transphobia/misogyny

@feandil666

3 жыл бұрын

I disagree, they never make jokes at the expense of gays, it's always at the expense of the straight who has trouble accepting gays. Starting with Chandler, one of his main arc is totally accepting his drag queen father. None of the characters are homophobic in any way, but they do do the stereotypical jokes, to defuse them and show how ridiculous they are.

@ffarff

3 жыл бұрын

@@feandil666 defuse them how?

@oddtail_tiger

3 жыл бұрын

@@feandil666 feel free to disagree, there's plenty of jokes where the joke seems to be "gay people exist". Reading your comment, I feel like you and I watched a very different show...

imo chandler “seeming gay” but being straight works better as a way of asking the question of “what does it mean to seem gay?” the best way it could have been improved would be to have a very “straight-seeming” character actually be revealed to be gay

I think Chandler is perfect as he is. Other shows can have gay leads. I enjoy him being a feminine straight man. It breaks down stereotypes.

Am I the only one who never even suspected him of being gay or bi?

Chandler is just incredibly insecure because of his mother and father, and he doesnt feel overtly masculine so they all joke about it and include it in the show cause its relatable to other men who arent like Joey or Ross

@arcyarcanine

3 жыл бұрын

Ross is kinda in the same boat, cause when he was a kid he used to dress like a girl and play house (usually by himself) and then in high school he seems to overcompensate with a bushy moustache. Then when he has Ben, he doesn't want him playing with Barbies as if he's scared he'll end up bullied cause of his feminine interests.

@GabriellaFrances

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcyarcanine yeah that's true!

@tiffprendergast

3 жыл бұрын

Yup

@tiffprendergast

3 жыл бұрын

@@arcyarcanine yup

3:24 - Sorry to be off-topic, but am I the only one distracted by the utensils they're using with Chinese takeout? They're chopsticks on one end and forks and spoons on the other. Monica is the only one using the chopstick end. I have never seen that before, and I can't believe it didn't catch on.

@christopherb501

3 жыл бұрын

Hey dere, Ms. Film Den; nice to see you. And seconded; totally agree.

@MichaelKnickle

3 жыл бұрын

Amazing. I am seven minutes into the video and your comment just had me think back six minutes ago when I was fixated on the strange utensils.

Love the filtered characters and you & Stephanie were absolutely hysterical in “Spy Movie” 🌟 ❤️ 🌟

great writing, clips, analysis, everything

There's also that episode where Phoebe's ice skater friend comes out as straight, just not into her, which is weirdly making a serious coming out story that's only funny because it's reversed.

Maybe its the “shipper” in me, but I think Chandler and Joey would’ve been a cute couple.

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

@alexisschiffer4830

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae I don’t see how its spoiling anything. I thought the video was very informative. One of the co-creators of Friends is gay and thought about the possibility of Chandler being gay. Ultimately, he wasn’t but given the way he was written, Lisa Kudrow herself (Phoebe on the show) thought that Chandler was, as did many newspapers in the 90s.

@SapphWolf

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae Specifically to spite you Ted. It's all one big conspiracy to ruin your childhood by letting you know how much gay was all around you that you just never noticed.

@alxjones

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae The real question is why did you reply to someone who is clearly not a KZreadr (no public videos on their channel) and proceed to say "you youtubers" a full twice?

@garenthal9638

3 жыл бұрын

Ehhh the one shipping trope that usually bugs me is when people assume close bonds gotta be a relationship

"Be a dear and fetch me my shawl" is a quote from Anton Chekov's The Cherry Orchard.

Really great video!

Honestly as a bi girl Chandler was incredibly helpful to having casual representation for my mom to see and understand my feelings while closeted, even if never confirmed it was still nice.

Just speculating but I feel like the creators of Friends originally wanted Chandler to be a gay a character but the network said no.

@deathbeforedecaf7755

3 жыл бұрын

The Friends cast started earning 1 million per episode. Could not have happened if one of the cast were gay...especially at that time. Just a thought

@TedEhioghae

3 жыл бұрын

Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?

@alx8571

3 жыл бұрын

@@TedEhioghae you’re mad straighty

@breadfan_85

3 жыл бұрын

That's exactly what did happen. It's been confirmed through interviews. In fact, his straightness is a retcon, because it wasn't decided he'd be straight until after the pilot episode. It's the entire reason his character is so effeminate.

This is a very well written video. Good work.

I LOVED Chandler, he's a soft straight man. Which is the best thing to suit him. He very well suits Monica chaotic behavior