Here's the study regarding survival rates mentioned at the beginning: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3421183/ And here's further reading on that if you're up for it: www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/health/law-of-the-sea-women-and-children-fare-poorly-in-ship-disasters.html

@oldmandoinghighkicksonlyin1368

2 жыл бұрын

That study is a good read. I always thought that certain nationalities were more cowardly in maritime disasters **coughcoughSCHETTINOcough** but this dispels my bigotry.

@LostShipMate

2 жыл бұрын

Was waiting for this, great work.

@Ford_Raptor_R_720hp_V8

2 жыл бұрын

Might as well do the Sultana, and the German Passenger Ship Sunk in Jan 45, and the Car Ferry that Sunk in 94 I believe it was.

@BrettonFerguson

Жыл бұрын

With a life vest, women would survive longer with more body fat and with all those layers of clothing. Men would get hypothermia faster. I think Captain Smith was so chivalrous because he thought he could see the Californian on the horizon and it would be there long before the Titanic sank. This is also why they were filling lifeboats half full. Once Captain Smith realized his error his chivalry disappeared and he ordered the lifeboats to return.

@Grimpy970

Жыл бұрын

Hey, I know you said it was similar, but I was hoping you could cover the sinking of the Ailsa that you briefly touched on? It doesn't seem like anyone else on KZread has covered that collision before! Edit: it just sounds so outrageous! It's like an armored-truck crashing into a parked schoolbus and then just.. leaving

There’s a great line said by Tommy Lee Jones’ character in Men in Black that I always think of: “A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals.”

@kevinquist

Жыл бұрын

amen

@connormclernon26

Жыл бұрын

It was true thousands of years ago, it was true hundreds of years ago, it was true decades ago, it’s true now, and it shall remain true well into the future, with the caveat of “a group of people is only as smart as the dumbest single person.”

@teheyepatch

9 ай бұрын

One of the quotes I live my life by.

I'm glad you mentioned the Oceanos, it should be remembered that it was the British entertainment staff who remained on board, manning lifeboats, sending out distress calls and marshalling frightened passengers towards rescue helicopters send by the Springboks. I think they should have been awarded the George Cross (the highest award for civilian gallantry).

@jessicam5712

6 ай бұрын

The guitar player on the Oceanos was instrumental in saving people on the Achille Lauro after it caught on fire

@brianhunt1742

19 күн бұрын

@@jessicam5712 Moss Hills

As Kipling said, "To stand and be still to the Birkenhead drill is a damned tough bullet to chew." The men on the Birkenhead were soldiers, well disciplined men under orders. Even so, it took a lot of guts to act in that fashion and, I understand, the Prussian Kaiser told his soldiers that they should seek to emulate the men of the Birkenhead. If we were in their position, what would we do?

@stevenmacdonald9619

2 жыл бұрын

It is believed that the Birkenhead was indeed the vessel that started the notion of chivalry at sea. 👏

@hoodoo2001

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevenmacdonald9619 It popularized it in the minds of the public as it was a significant event, but you can't say it started the notion just because no one has bothered to look past the Birkenhead. Also note that there was little large scale transportation prior the advent of steam engines and large predominantly iron hulled ships nor was there mass communication and knowledge of what went on at sea. Sailing was extreme hardship prior to the advent of the iron hull and steam of which very little was in the public eye.

@ripwednesdayadams

Жыл бұрын

I was going to say, the titanic didn’t start “women and children first”. Glad to see someone mention the Birkenhead. I always think of that crew. They hardly ever get the credit, but they certainly deserve it. The crew deserve to be remembered.

@brt-jn7kg

Жыл бұрын

An they did it The Jollies, Er' Majestys Jollies, Solider and Sailer too

@geoffedmonds6507

Жыл бұрын

So much of our ability to do the right thing depends upon our true belief that God sees us and knows our hearts, and that to be judged moral is the greatest kindness of all. Today very little of that remains and going back to these disasters shows you that that belief was eroding at a sad pace long ago.

My grandfather’s grandfather died in that ship. He was coming back from US to Turkey from a wrestling tournament. May god rest his soul in peace. His name was Koca Yusuf aka (the terrible turk).

You should do a video about the SS Arctic - a disaster with similar circumstances to this incident, but 44 years prior (Plus, the unwanted bonus of lacking a proper amount of lifeboats). It's a disaster that is mostly ignored and forgotten with the passage of time, despite the horrors of the incident (Such as the cruel twist of fate where the captain was spared by the paddle-box that floated to the surface, but said paddle-box killed his son who was by his side). Also, the SS Princess Sophia, whose sinking remains hotly debated as to what course of action the captain and crew could have taken to save everyone on board as they were caught in a lose-lose scenario (Either A: launch the lifeboats and risk them being swamped and destroyed, or B: hope the waves push the ship off the rock and that the structure holds together?). Worse yet, rescue crews were nearby, but unable to approach due to the severe storm. This story was buried because it happened near the end of World War I, and was quickly forgotten once the war ended.

@Lewdcina

Жыл бұрын

youre a prophet, as he did a Princess Sophia video after your post, but no SS Arctic video Part Time Explorer did an amazing video on it though, you should check this one out kzread.info/dash/bejne/h3l71ceLpa2aiNo.html

What made the Titanic's sinking so unique with the women and children was the way it happened. The ship quietly hit the berg and didnt capsize. If it had been a more violent impact and the ship lost stability, panic definitely would have taken hold and we wouldve had a La Bourgogne x5 The calm nature of the sinking allowed a lot of drama and decisions to be fully flexed out, with enough time for complex emotions and slow realizations to flesh out, while also being fast enough to create rising urgency. Husbands believing the ship would stay afloat were more readily willing to be separated from their families, some (including, importantly, the crew) thinking it was just a drill or that the Californian would arrive in time. If the Titanic's sinking had been more violent and obvious from the very start, I think the same scenario that played out in the last moments with the collapsibles would have been repeated on every lifeboat; a mad dash in which the survivors are exclusively adult men Its been suggested that a central alarm system could have made passengers more aware when evacuation was ordered. I think it would have been like sticking a megaphone into each cabin and yelling "Half of you are gonna die, quick get to the boats and make sure it's not you". Central alert systems only work effectively when the crews have been adequately trained and passengers advised in the evacuation procedure that follows. Sadly for many thousands of innocent ppl in the 19-20th centuries, shipping lines put profit and image first and neglected their duties to a degree of outright moral criminality, to the point that when Charles Lightoller found himself loading the same lifeboats he and White Star Line had used for 20+ years, he still didnt know if it was safe to launch them fully-loaded Im a qualified events steward and we did all sorts of stuff like crowd mentality. Big respect for covering an obscure disaster that says just as much about human nature during tragedy as the Titanic. A book from this era I HIGHLY recommend is Our Seamen: An Appeal by Samuel Plimsoll (1873), a British reformist, MP and all-round chad who furiously advocated for better maritime safety and exposed lethal business practices starting in the 1850s

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Bingo on poor training. The more I research these ships, the more astonished I am at the disregard for human life over getting to port on time. Shipwreck reports at the time were so commonplace that people just assumed it was a risky way to travel, when most times it was really the people in charge that made them so deadly. - Sam

@thestonedabbot9551

2 жыл бұрын

@@StunningHistory Yea, a big misconception isnt that ships were constantly forced at breakneck speeds to reach port quicker, it was to keep to rigid schedules. That book I recommended even starts out with basically what you just said: "Everybody knows that there is a great loss of life on (English) coasts annually, and nearly everybody deplores it. I am sure that if the English public equally knew how much of this loss is preventible, and the means of preventing it, no long time would elapse before means would be taken to secure this end." (Seriously I cant recommend Our Seamen enough, its a fascinating glimpse into the development of early maritime regulation. Ever heard of the Plimsoll Line, that line of numbers indicating safe loading capacity? That was named for the author) Ive done a good deal of personal research myself on the topic in preparation for an amateur thesis (but like yourself I dont have nor claim any professional qualifications). Titanic University, much as I love that channel, made a very dud argument in saying that ppl at the time had no Titanic-level disaster to refer to, "power of hindsight", etc I think thats a very poor argument because 1. The ppl who operated those shipping companies weren't inept Bond-style villains, they were highly-educated businessmen and engineers who never glossed over a single detail when designing and operating their ships. They knew and openly toyed with the constant possibility of disaster, and unfortunately as with many protest movements, it took a horrific unprecedented (and somewhat miraculous) tragedy to finally force change to law 2. There were DOZENS of Titanic-style disasters that could have been learned from. SS La Bourgogne being one of them. There was also the SS Norge in 1904 (which Im sure you're familiar with). Side note, J. Bruce Ismay himself sent a letter of condolence to the Norge's owners shortly after the disaster, not on the loss of passengers and crew, but on the loss of a profitable ship. The owners of shipping lines kept up with this news in their industry. They werent just blissfully unaware that crossing the sea can be dangerous, they did the math and calculated that the risk of the odd sinking or two was a gamble worth taking, as opposed to the costly obstacles involved in building and operating safer ships 3. Shipping lines were not only aware of solutions and demands for change, they actively discouraged and fought against further regulation. They made transparent, lazy excuses like "adding lifeboats would actually make evacuating harder, oh yeah and this one time the lifeboats got destroyed anyway so uh, things are cool" (one example here). When the RMS Republic sank without serious loss in 1909, Lines and their allies in the media absolutely went to town on the new miracle invention of wireless that would ensure no ship would ever sink alone and rescue would always be within shouting distance books.google.co.uk/books?id=vs8MAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA323&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false Im sure you're familiar with RMS Olympic's lifeboat strike after the Titanic. But also in 1911, MP Horatio Bottomley handed a petition to Sydney Buxton, then-Pres. of the Board of Trade, concerning the number of lifeboats on the Olympic-class ships. The BOT effectively said in a Commons meeting "Yeah, yea we're working on it". (Spoiler alert: they did not, in fact, work on it) www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanics-supreme-survivor-sydney-buxton.html The idea that all those thousands of lives lost in shipping disasters since the advent of modern sailing are just down to little corporate hiccups that cant be predicted, or are solely the fault of a handful of crew? At generous its stupid and misinformed, and at worst its an absolutely disgusting insult to every person who ever had to face the sea's cruelty because the Line's shareholders wouldnt appreciate a late arrival

Add the most recent example of a captain abandoning his ship before everyone else: The Sewol.

@ryano.5149

2 жыл бұрын

Everyone thinks the Concordia was bad...but Sewol should be considered outright murder. Hard lesson learned - if you're on a ship you think is going down and the crew isn't giving you answers, get to an outside deck on the high side.

@potato1907

2 жыл бұрын

@@ryano.5149 the Oceanos should have attempted murder. And even worse, the captain didn't get arrested at all for it.

@Monicalia

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! This is absolutely outrageous. Telling kids to stay in their cabins while he secretly gets into a lifeboat. It infuriates me to this day. I'm glad he rots in jail.

@glittergal1015

2 жыл бұрын

What makes the sewol even more gut wrenching is that it was a senior class of students that mainly died, their lives were just beginning

@user-sf1dq2iv4j

2 ай бұрын

I’m a Man I still remember when I heard about the Sewol on the news and I actually teared up when they told us that they had over 350 students on board! I can’t imagine how much of a coward you would have to be to abandon them!

Thanks for putting together this vid, long overdue. There's not that much reading material about this disaster in "classic" maritime literature. The sinking of the La Bourgogne is nearly forgotten today, yet it was one of the most horrific accidents of the early steamer age. By the way, acknowledging that French pronunciation can be trying and at the risk of coming across as patronizing, Bourgogne is pronounced "Boor-GONE-ya", the emphasis on the second syllable and the third one nearly silent.

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching and for the clarification on the pronunciation. I watched a couple of videos in preparation for the narration and tried to mimic Bourgogne the best my American Midwestern accent could for now. :D I actually varied between what you recommended and what's in the video. I now know for future reference! - Sam

@trevorstevens2889

2 жыл бұрын

People I know with the same last name as this ship pronounce it Bore-goynn.

@Ford_Raptor_R_720hp_V8

2 жыл бұрын

@@StunningHistory - there's another old ship wreck you should do. The SS Central America.

Can’t wait to see what masterpiece you have for us here today! Really enjoying the content brother keep it up!

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Hope you enjoyed it!

My favorite channel

I have discovered more and more evidence recently, that we are held to a romanticism because of Titanic that simply did not exist. These were horrible times, made all the worse by what seems quite often incompetence and lunacy. When the truth is told, with thanks again to Ship Geek, it is clear that the risk of death was far higher than it ever needed to be, and little respect was given to the high seas when money was involved, and that stretched to investigations and compensation too.

@redtobertshateshandles

Жыл бұрын

The crew of the Titanic were no doubt fortified by the belief that the ship was unsinkable.

@vorynrosethorn903

11 ай бұрын

Different people acted differently. The British were where women and children first originated and they held to it more strongly than anyone else, as was joked at the time it wasn't really a concept at all among Italians and the like. Also unless women were forcibly lead up to the deck by the crew it wasn't uncommon for them to take so long packing and dressing as to drown and if the lifeboats didn't work then the difference in strength alone was decisive, to enact the birkenhead drill took organisation, level headishness and self-sacrifice and many of these traits would make an accident occurring in the first place far less likely, an incompetent crew would show their flaws at every level and in every situation. Passengers could also be an issue, there is likely good reason that successful enactment of the policy often saw decisive intervention from soldiers and gentlemen who happened to be on broad and in certain cases were more brave than the crew as they ensured their own death by their intervention while the crew were needed to operate the lifeboats and so would in large part survive no matter the circumstances to everyone else.

My god, did the capitan of the Concordia really say he "tripped and fell into a lifeboat"?

You know Titanic’s crew wasn’t perfect by any means but at least I can safely say they did the best they could to save the people. The crew on this ship don’t even deserve to be called seamen.

@FallenPhoenix86

2 жыл бұрын

Several boats were launched below capacity and passengers were literally locked below deck. Not quite sure that qualifies as their "bdst".

@ericcriteser4001

2 жыл бұрын

By any standard of any day, the bulk of those White Star seamen performed their jobs brilliantly and simply delivered their best until the end.

@starrsmith3810

2 жыл бұрын

@@FallenPhoenix86 for a situation like Titanic it does. Oh and there is about multiple reasons they were unfilled, none of which includes to save their own asses or straight up murder. Murdoch, Wilde, Smith, Moody, Phillips, McElroy, etc. died in the sinking. And I don’t seem to remember any crew members leaving the ship neither to save themselves unlike at least 2 ships I know of. And none of the crew had them down there on purpose and to blame that on the crew is just ridicules. A huge reason why 3rd class was hit so hard would also be for multiple reasons. None of which includes intentionally left down there. You can’t save everyone onboard the ship if the ship only has 2 hours at least of life left before she sinking completely. Not even having enough lifeboats onboard could have done that.

@FallenPhoenix86

2 жыл бұрын

@@starrsmith3810 Were boats deliberatly lowered into the water at a fraction of capacity, yes or no? If yes then there was plenty of room for improvement... this isn't mockery, its a statement of fact.

@thestonedabbot9551

2 жыл бұрын

@@FallenPhoenix86 The unfilled lifeboats is true. However the "3rd Class locked below" is a Hollywood trope Those ominous gratings you see screaming Irish immigrants tearing at in That Film were never used as class dividers, but as adjustable walls in the mail holds and internal covers for the gangway doors. White Star Line was a very prestigious company who did things very formally. Classes were given their own specifically-designed parts of the ship and were separated by deck layout, locked doors and manned junctions The true explanation is a bit more mundane, but equally as scathing on the White Star Line's disaster preparation. Crews werent drilled in evacuation procedure, leading to mass confusion and tension. Some passengers didnt speak English and provision for non-English speakers was lacklustre. Corridors werent always clearly marked with directional signs, leaving endless families to find themselves lost in a maze of corridors and dead ends, with no idea which door would lead to the boat deck If you look up any photos or accurate models of Titanic, youll notice that between the Boat Deck and A-Deck around the aft mast, theres no stairs leading straight up to the lifeboats. Because the after region of the Boat Deck was reserved for 2nd Class, while the full A-Deck was reserved for 1st. 3rd Class passengers going up onto the stern promenades, the areas they knew already, were confronted with an un-navigable mess between them and the rapidly-dwindling number of lifeboats

Thank you for covering this obscure story. There are many YT ship channels that don't, or haven't covered this ship for some reason.

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

I admittedly never heard of it until a couple of weeks ago. It was briefly mentioned in a book I was reading about the Andrea Doria called "The Last Voyage of the Andrea Doria." The more I read about it, the the more I got pulled into the story!

@roadkillz78

2 жыл бұрын

@@StunningHistory There doesn't seem to be much information on it. But you did a great job in presenting an informative video on it, along with showing the ugly side of humanity in times of great distress, particularly in those times. I imagine ship crews during the 19th century will still of a "ruffian cut", as opposed to professional crew members of ocean liners in the early 20th century. Hence the humanitarian differences (or lack thereof) between the Titanic crew and the La Bourgogne's.

Thank you for a thought provoking production, sadly I share your assessment of human nature in times of stress. During a fire fighting course when in the army, one of the instructors spoke about it. He asked us had no one wondered why, after hearing a news broadcast in which the reporter stated that parents had to be restrained from re-entering the house to save their children, they hadn't brought their kids with them when they escaped. Panic, it seemed obvious when he explained it but professionals, like ships crews, should be trained not to panic. Poor training is usually down to economic factors. :(

@stanislavkostarnov2157

2 жыл бұрын

you cannot train for certain things... physiologically, there is a point of fear where the part of brain which houses all conscious thought, and everything you ever have been taught, turns off... reactions, that can be trained, are only basic actions consisting of a small number of parts...

@davymckeown4577

2 жыл бұрын

@@stanislavkostarnov2157 I am no expert in neurology or psychology, in fact I'm an expert in nothing, I was speaking from personal experience. Whilst I would agree that people cannot prepare for every eventuality, they can be taught to think before acting. We referred to this as having a valium sandwich and practicing it regularly can save lives. Soldiers do it through battle inoculation training and firefighters do it through regular and realistic exercises. This reinforces neural pathways, what some erroneously refer to as, "muscle memory". It takes time and therefore money, which is okay in not for profit organisations but in business, sadly profit seems to come first. Another factor is the selection of personnel, it would seem that in commercial shipping the emphasis is on seeking people who are willing to work for low wages, whereas in military navy's, the selection process is quite strict. Perhaps not everyone can be trained to ignore the instinct for self preservation.

@stanislavkostarnov2157

2 жыл бұрын

@@davymckeown4577 no one can ignore the impulse for self-preservation... one can only stave it off (usually for a matter of seconds). obviously there are different levels of debilitation/shock, but, when stuff hits the fan over a certain force, all you can at best train is actual "muscle memory" ... things like putting on a survival suit, or pushing a certain group of buttons, or dialing an SOS on a tap-wireless, not things requiring upper areas of your brain (such as acting in a certain way, making decisions, even following instructions... anything that's not a set of direct muscle commands) with great difficulty certain actions needed to return to a calmer state may be pre-programed, but, the necessary mental/physical aptitude sufficient for that is rare enough that one would never find the needed crews to man his ships irrespective of money.... more so, the training is hard enough that few of those who can are willing to invest that kind of effort

@davymckeown4577

2 жыл бұрын

@@stanislavkostarnov2157 You have an advantage over me, I know very little about the training which civilian ships crews undergo, although I am sure it varies greatly from country to country. What I do know is that, when not at war or fighting fires, military and firefighting personnel do little else other than train for these events. From my own experience of both armed conflict and the training prior to that, is that simple skills like clearing a weapon which stops firing can be easily mastered and could be roughly described as muscle memory. What isn't so easy, is to get people to evaluate a situation before acting. The process takes years and the personnel are practiced, tested and assessed at every level before progressing. I doubt very much though, that any training would have altered the despicable behaviour of the captain of the Concordia or others of his ilk. It seems obvious to me that such men have never been tested realistically in a life or death situation.

@stanislavkostarnov2157

2 жыл бұрын

@@davymckeown4577 I feel Schettino and guys like him are an exception formed by a certain culture within the Mediterranean cruise industry which can be described as the opposite of meritocracy, or nepotism in certain groups/branches... on a more normal scale, with a big ship (especially so in the days of trans-oceanic liners), my feeling is you never get a whole crew being adequate during an emergency, (or even a major storm), one or two always get a breakdown, which means that a certain percentage is lead into panic... which can make it seem that the whole of the crew is raving mad for some passengers in certain parts of the ship (where those people are on duty).... a big problem is also, that for most, shipping today is more of a part time or temporary/gap-year job than a career... whilst officers are trained personnel, the vast majority of people in company uniform are not, most are dancers, actors, artists, writers &/or members of any other land profession with some interest in the sea and maybe a couple of weeks evening classes, that is to say, people like I was... (I actually had an advantage that my family always had a boat of some kind, so my reaction to bad weather was more like, wow, this ship takes it so smoothly compared to a J-24)

Just found your channel. Great job, mate. A really well put together show.

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Carl - welcome aboard! - Sam

This video is fantastic

its interesting this study was done in 2012 . This was the year of the Costa Concordia sinking as well.

'Women and children first' is considered to be completely outdated and sends a completely wrong message. Modern strategy on this field is: everybody first. Meaning: all rescue methods we engineer and the strategies that accompany them are designed to give everybody an equal right and chance to survive.

Biz Türklerin en büyük güreşçisi Koca Yusuf da bu gemideydi Allah rahmet eylesin mekanı cennet olsun .

Amazing video! Keep up the great work. 👍🏻

Hooked by your voice, good writing and delivery and subbed in less than 2 minutes. Thanks!

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Welcome aboard!

@the-trustees

2 жыл бұрын

@@StunningHistory 👍

Ah, the judicial system Corrupt and pitiful

Geez! I know that the ATLANTIC sank with only one boy being rescued, but at least that incident had an excuse for the death ratio (bad weather preventing the launch of boats and listing at an angle that trapped the majority of people inside) and the crew didn’t try to kill the passengers for trying to get out alive! This is flat-out cowardice! On a side note, it’s weird that nobody’s looked for the LA BOURGOGNE wreck…

If anyone would like to see a particularly awful modern version of a ship's crew saving themselves and leaving passengers to die, you only have to look up the Sewol ferry sinking.

@Catenfur

Жыл бұрын

That was such an unnecessary tragedy. All those poor children

This vid was uploaded on my birthdayy, thanks!!

Great video, thank you!

Hello Sam, I just found your channel and am a huge fan! I am also a ship geek. I suggest you do a video on the MV Wilhelm Gustloff and the S.S. Keewatin. The Keewatin still survives to this day! Cheers Brian

"Would you shank a child for a seat on a lifeboat?" Guy: Yeah La Bourgogne: Welcome aboard.

There have been attempts by Captain Deloncle to restore order, according to some witnesses he would have fired a few shots in the air in order to reason with the panicked sailors and passengers. It is difficult to name who the culprits were as there were no investigations related to the violence during the sinking, nobody were arrested and sailors who were responsible for some passenger murder continued to sail for the Compagnie générale transatlantique. Since 2 years Im doing a research work on the history of this shipwreck as well as on the victims and the survivors. A large part of the crew members did not survive for over than 20 years after the sinking.

@fredericgrunert7902

2 жыл бұрын

I would like to add, there is more than one woman who survived the initial sinking. When some bodies were recovered doctors found that some people were dead up to 4 days after the sinking. Some people had even tied themselves together. No rescue operations were carried out and these people waited several days drifting at sea to finally die by drowning or hypothermia.

Fun Fact La Bourgone is actualy one of the deepest shipwrecks at over 4000 ft.

@Garsons-oq4lh

2 жыл бұрын

Is that verified though? As of today the wreck has not been located.

@harrietharlow9929

2 жыл бұрын

There are quite a few ships lying more than 4000 feet down. The Titanic is one at 12,500 feet. The Bismarck lies in water around 13,000 feet deep. And given the La Bourgogne' s estimated position, she is in water at least 2 miles deep.

"Where does chivalry go in a time of crisis at sea?" Turns around to a profusely sweating Lusitania, Mafalda, Oceanos, Concordia and Sewol "Yeah, where does chivalry go in a time of crisis at sea?" *note: doesn't apply to every single crew member nor in all of these situations

@mikef5881

2 жыл бұрын

Then compare them with the honourable conduct of the crew of the Athenia, torpedoed on the second day of World War II. Every person who survived the initial blast was evacuated safely.

@rd4554

2 жыл бұрын

Except for the lifeboat that was chopped up by a propeller

@rd4554

2 жыл бұрын

A better example is the Empress of Britain (Canadian Pacific)

Coming from the Maritime Horrors channel ! It was a really good video, even if as a French person, it was funny hearing the name of the ship in another language x)

Ah yes another great content, this is the first time I heard about this. Thank you!

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Jake! - Sam

Love this channel

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the support, James! - Sam

God this is so well made!! Thank you!

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Stephanie!

you're doing an amazing job in your videos. thank you ;)

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the support!

US: "sailing at high speed through fog" Also the US: "MAIL CONTRACT?! FULL STEAM AT ALL TIMES"

Amazing video! I noticed the princess of the stars on that list. I love that ship so match I made a hole documentary on her.

Great presentation

Excellent video! I hope you sometime do a video on the Meduse in all your free time :)

If this ship had been carrying cattle, could you have called it the "Beef Bourgogne"?

Thanks for the video, my 3xgreat grandfather Paul Chanut died in this shipwreck, so a pretty interesting video for me personally.

Worst wreck in N Atlantic b4 this was @ 3:15am, April 1, 1873, when, due to misinformation given to Captain D, the SS Atlantic struck Golden Rule Rock off Mars Island, NS. All 10 lifeboats were washed away due to rapidity of water being taken on. People of Lower Prospect & Terence Bay arrived to shelter 429 male survivors who had swum to shore. Of 952 souls aboard, 535 died, including all 156 women & except for 2, all 189 children aboard, incl 2 born during the voyage. 10 crew were lost, 131 survived. Captain D was blamed. His descendants later got into fast food bidness.

As a French my ears bled every time you mentioned the ship's name! But hey, my English suck at times hahaha 😉😁. Great video, keep up with the good work!

I think we all want to believe we live in more modern & civilized times. Though the reality is on any given day anyone of us may find ourselves or the ones we love in a life or death situation where there's usually a surplus of panic combined with a shortage of moral integrity. And if we are lucky enough to survive, we usually find in the aftermath justice is rarely served to those responsible & accountability is barely existent. Times may change, unfortunately people rarely do.

The callous violence that occurred is just plain DISGRACEFUL. Those responsible should have been severely punished. NO excuses..

The darker side of sea travel.... as actual today as it was in the time of La Bourgogne...

A lot of people didn't know how to swim back in those days

@StunningHistory

5 сағат бұрын

Yes, unfortunately. And their heavy waterlogged clothes made it nearly impossible to stay afloat.

Very good and sadly accurate video. I'll point out that even in shipwrecks where women and children were given first priority, many still died due to lifeboats spilling while being lowered, overturning due to waves, etc. Look at the Lusitania, Clallam, Valencia, etc. The Titanic truly was an anomaly, and I think that's one of the reasons why it's gone down in history.

Father was a seaman. He told me that all living sentient creatures, humans included, have an emotional survival instinct. Emotional meaning that it can / will override ones ability to reason right from wrong, fact from fiction Ect Even if only on a temporary basis untill the panic has subsided. The point being that in a situation where people are drowning, even the best of people will climb onto your back just to stay alive. The survival panic is so overpowering they dont actually realize they are killing another to save themselves.. This phenomena is a big part of why you can legally kill another if it will save your own life. Like taking their life vest, if you are sure to drown without one. From a legal stand point you must be in a situation that Most people realize as immediately deadly....Not just the fear of a possibility.

@evil1by1

8 ай бұрын

Hmm I find it funny that it's only ever women and children dying. Somehow they have enough rationality to gather their friends and supplies and secure themselves a boat but its just animal instinct I guess to rape and fire upon women. You never see the crew fighting other crewmen to get on a boat or male passengers fighting passengers nope just screw the women and children. I guess misogyny is just an instinct

In the British military, running away from anything is known as taking "French leave".

'Women and children first' is the Birkenhead Drill. Which was kind of a reflection of it's time. Thankfully, the modern convention is 'Family groups together'.

@Drobium77

2 жыл бұрын

so people who have no families are less worthy?

Ship geek Do a video about all the people who have fallen overboard off a ship and how common it still is today!

So Glad someone has taken the time to talk about this infamous sinking..biggest loss of people before Titanic....But rescue wise...Titanic she was not

Yeah and then in 2014 the captain of the South Korean ferry the Sowell abandon ship before the passengers along with some of his crew. Although some crew members lost their lives performing their duties bravely.

in the literature this shipwreck is referred to as the "bloody shipwreck".

As a crew member, having experience at sea, emergency training, and familiarity with the ship and its potentials for egress HAS to have a positive impact on survival.

@briananthony4044

Жыл бұрын

I would think that back in the day, there were no drills etc so when the worst happened, instinct took over. Travelling at high speed in a fog is just downright criminal, and doing so should have had the Captain removed in every case.

Never get on a ship that is crude by the French or the Greeks because if something bad happens they will be guaranteed to save their own rear ends rather than the passengers.

It makes one wonder if some of the owners of the ship were connected in some way to the French courts or government.

Absolutely.

here from Maritime Disasters ☆ good vidz

...this comes from the sinking of the HMS Birkenhead in 1857 off south Africa, women and children went first, hundreds of British stood in formation to hold the bow out of the water so they could get the women and children away safe, it is called in navy circles " the Birkenhead drill"..

From Tortuga's port we put to sea And sailed for sixteen days In the biggest storm I'd ever seen We almost lost our way When a call came from a deckhand “Boys, I think she’s going down But don’t you fear, there’s enough rum here To drink until we drown!”

Chivalry, as we understand it today, isn’t dead - it never existed in the first place.

Goddamn dude, your voice is great. Liked and subbed.

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, and welcome aboard! - Sam

Please check your chart again - WCF column included the Arctic - where it definitely was NOT the case. There was even a book written about the disaster entitled "Women and Children Last".

“SS Arctic-WCF: Yes” *winces*

Well it's plainly evident why France was not highly thought of when it came to ocean passages, when compared to English shipping, unbelievable!!!🙏😢⚓🤔

I just watched…a few days ago…the sinking of the SS Atlantic along the coast of Nova Scotia in which only one eleven year old boy was saved. Not a single woman on board walked away or swam away with her life. Because of this…there was substantial embarrassment. I believe that in today’s context more women and children would survive because of more modern designs along with better performing lifesaving equipment. Ironically… a large part of the difference would also be attributed to the fact that women are far more self reliant and proactive…less naïve in believing that some random dude would put his life ahead of theirs. 😉

The "women and children first" on the Titanic meant that a lot of lifeboats were launched empty or nearly empty. Chivalry is often not the best option.

@bryancorley5068

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it was Captain Smith’s duty if he was going to order the lifeboats lowered and away, to make absolutely sure they were filled to capacity! Matter of fact a very short while after the collision, Captain Smith disappears in the historic events! Why?

@Monicalia

2 жыл бұрын

Agree. They were lowered half-full because in the first hour of the sinking, everyone thought that it wasn't dangerous and the lifeboats were just a precaution. When officers asked women and children to get into the lifeboats, they refused because a) they didn't want to leave their husbands b) they thought it wasn't necessary since they were said Titanic wasn't in danger so it took some time convincing women to even get into the lifeboats, some had to be forced to get into lifeboats. When officers could finally launch the lifeboats, they weren't aware of their strength and were scared of overloading the lifeboats. Also Lightoller, the 2nd officer, misunderstood the order and didn't let any men into lifeboats unlike Murdoch, the 1st officer.

@Monicalia

2 жыл бұрын

@@bryancorley5068 for first hour of the sinking, he was investigating the damages with Thomas Andrews. He was checking both port and starboard sides of ship and ordering officers and other members to do their job. He was convincing women to get into lifeabots. Like I said in other comment, a lot of women refused to get into lifeboats for few reasons so he was out there convincing them to get into lifeboats, communicating with wireless operators to send SOS, etc. He did his job. And what do you mean ''captain smith disappears in the historic events''? He literally perished in the sinking, hard for him to be presence in future historic events and for the most of his career, there was no major incident that would turn him into some legend of the sea.

@bryancorley5068

2 жыл бұрын

@@Monicalia But the Captain knew otherwise. It didn’t take Andrews all that much time to know the ships fate and report to the Captain. He new his ship was doomed! If you lower the lifeboats and people are getting in them that’s abandoning ship. Captain Smith’s responsibility was to insure that each lifeboat was to be filled to capacity and His orders should have reflected that and been clear as to how it was to be accomplished with no question or mistakes from his crew. The Captain is without excuse! If people refused to get in then let the person who will get in get in regardless of age or gender. I just wonder why Captain Smith basically disappears from the narrative relatively early in the story when he should have been barking commands and leading the crew!

@joelafrite7850

2 жыл бұрын

Why is a male's life worth less in your eyes than a female's life? Ever really thought this through?

Not for nothing, but I would suggest the conduct on Titanic of women and children first was abnormal, and possibly due to the sinking of the SS Atlantic, which until Titanic was the worst disaster of the White Star Line. Just over half of the passengers survived and because of the way the ship sank and how the passenger quarters were laid out, only one child survived, while all the women drowned. I can imagine, "Women and children first" being drilled into all White Star crew as a result.

What the hell how could the captain go down with the ship but at the same time not a single child survived? It's like they knew the etiquette but was only responsible for himself? The captain had the presence of mind to make sure he went down with the ship but not to control his officers who are killing children and women? I'm so confused

Good job crew! You a managed to make the Arctic's crew look good...

In this accident, wrestler husband Yusuf died.😢 🇹🇷

Unfortunately it sounds like they was a bunch of French cowards, doesn't surprise me or shock me. Fear can absolutely change a person I suppose. Another brilliant vid Sam!! Can't wait for the next

The NYTimes really hasn't changed all these years later

It makes sense that the Birkenhead drill was adopted in the face of outrage over commonplace savagery like this in order to instill some seemliness into tragedies like this, making the drill the welcome exception, not the norm. Sad, but true, as it turns out.

Some have referred to the Titanic's sinking and the actions of her crew. Sadly, the biggest cause of the disaster of the Titanic, besides the fact she had nowhere near the number of lifeboats she needed (thanks to Bruce Ismay who I hope died with the blood of all those lives lost fresh on his mind) White Star, again under Bruce Ismay, did not give the crew enough time to train for a ship like the Titanic. The Titanic virtually went from a hurried up farce of sea trials to being sent out on her maiden voyage. Virtually few of her crew knew how to handle her and had to learn their jobs "on-the-fly". Had White Star taken the time to properly train Titanic's crew plus provided a suitable number of lifeboats (cosmetics be damned) it is very likely that not one person on her would have perished. I base this on the one part of the crew that DID know their jobs and did it well right up to the very end and it cost them all their lives. The men in the boiler and engine rooms plus the engineers worked as hard as they could to keep the ship's systems working right up to the point that it was impossible for them to escape. The bridge crew did not know how to manage the Titanic as they made several terrible blunders before the collision. First, you never, EVER reverse the engines on that large of a ship when trying to force a turn as all you accomplish is to boil the water around the rudder and it cannot get a grip to make the turn. Turning a ship of her size was NOT the smart thing to do and had the bridge crew known anything about how she handled they would have hit the iceberg head on. Yes, it would have damaged her bow but that was the toughest part of the ship, not her thin skinned sides. She would not have been able to make the speed she had been making but she would have survived to be repaired and put back into service. She should NEVER have sailed until the bridge crew made certain that the lookouts had the necessary binoculars that would have enabled them to spot the iceberg much farther back and the ship turned in time to avoid the collision Again, FAILURE TO PROPERLY TRAIN HER CREW was the direct cause of the sinking and White Star, under Bruce Ismay, was entirely to blame for the disaster! The British Board Of Inquiry SUCKED so badly at finding the truth because all they were interested in was covering up the real culprits in the disaster.

"Oh, this might be interesting story." Bourgogne, a French ship. "Nevermind."

You should also look at the type of person most likely to survive - the fat cats did well to get in the lifeboats of the Titanic.......and they told the sailors to lay off in case anyone else tried to get in 'their' boat.

It's actually called "the berkin-head drill" as in "women and children first"

Yeah. I knew it'd be either a French boat or an Italian one. No surprise how the crew acted.

@MrRonantho

Жыл бұрын

Aww... did you got humiliated by a frenchman somewhere lmao

The name of the ship is pronounced bore (rhyming with "door") goan (rhyming with "loan")

@mattkaustickomments

2 жыл бұрын

I would say “Bore-GOAN-yuh” with the “yuh” part barely there would be even more accurate.

@rickyspanish9002

2 жыл бұрын

@@mattkaustickomments If it was an Italian ship I would agree completely, but it being a french ship I don't think the "yuh" at the end is pronounced at all. Any native francophones here that could clear it up for us?

@mattkaustickomments

2 жыл бұрын

@@rickyspanish9002 I can’t claim to be a native French speaker but I did study French for 7 years and spent a summer in Paris where I was often praised for my fluidity of speech. That said, I also would like to hear from native French speakers on the subject..

@rickyspanish9002

2 жыл бұрын

@@mattkaustickomments I certainly didn't mean to question or demean your ability to parlay the Français, I hope it didn't come across that way

Where would we find further reading on the design and interior of the ship?

@StunningHistory

2 жыл бұрын

There's actually very little written about this ship, and I couldn't find one interior photo of it. Most of what I found was buried in digital newspaper archives on the Library of Congress, which is free, and also NY Times archives, which I pay a small monthly fee to access. Here's the search results page on LoC: www.loc.gov/newspapers/?dl=item&q=la+bourgogne

Let’s not forget the Sewol Ferry, where the captain acted like a passenger to escape

about 100 years later we got a certain man called schettino

@Alex462047

2 жыл бұрын

You call that miserable, self-serving wretch a man? He had all the training and experience necessary to get everybody off that ship alive, all the various circumstances in his favour, and he still fled like a rat and had the nerve to lie about it. What he did was unspeakably despicable.

The unwritten rule; Women and Children First, has all too often been misinterpreted as women and children only until all that remains are men. This was also the case on the Titanic. In reality, it means women and children are given priority when possible.. This resulted in lifeboats being lowered from the Titatnic less than full while men stood by bravely awaiting death. As for crews abandoning passengers, as uncomfortable as the notion might be, this does appear to be a cultural issue. The Anglo Saxon mind generally finds it a deplorable act of cowardice to abandon passengers, this mindset is not often found among non-Anglo Saxon crews, incidents are not uncommon of passengers struggling to survive and ultimately being rescued by another vessel only to find the captain and crew of their own vessel already safely aboard. The Costa Concordia just happens to be the latest example, there are many others.

Is there a difference in behavior based on nationality? Maybe the Brits are more chivalrous than French or Italians?!?

There are many actual and scientific reasons for crew surviving a d also for fit health men, these do not make Utube headlines. The Life boats while carrying woman and childern are always manned by a Deck officer and at least two or three sailors to launch them. This is why a significant number of crew survives. The Women and childern first has many draw backs, it would also be better to have some men to row the lifeboats. The Sailors of a ship see the sea as an environment that they are not afraid off, hence increased survival rates. Hypothermia is a the major killed of those who do not drown, any one who is older/younger, less fit will die quicker. The will to live is important and if you feel afraid and helpless you are more likely to die. There are many good articles available on survival at sea.

My great great grandfather was a passenger on her last voyage

Well it was a French ship

A lot of the violence was committed by knife yielding 3th class passengers, who where of non French nationality...

...these crewmen are a disgrace, you hear of this more and more, they need to be told the story of "the Birkenhead drill", the crew is responsible for the safety of their passengers, its as simple as that....

French ship crews - Chickens of the Sea

It’s it just me or does anyone else see a resemblance to the wreck of the titan book? Because it seams like everything this French ship did so did the fictional ship in the book

@jamesfracasse8178

2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps

The crew’s action were definitely reprehensible, and the story appalling, but to refer to La Bourgogne as the “anti-Titanic” seems a bit of a stretch. The accounts of the final moments of the SS Arctic seem far worse than this. On a slightly more positive note, it might be worth mentioning the SS Atlantic. While, unfortunately, no women, and only one child, survived the wreck, the recorded actions of the captain and crew in that incident seem to be pretty similar to Titanic’s sinking.

Titanic crew set the bar in chivalry on the high seas.

Looks like the Captain drove it like a dodgem car. Things have improved slightly in recent years.