Hello from Poland. In 1988 I owned an Atari 800XE. It was a great machine for me back then.

@BigBocian

5 ай бұрын

I guess 800XE must’ve shown up in Poland a bit later than 65/130XE. I got my 65XE around 1986 and that was the model sold in the Pewex stores (stores where everything was available but you had to pay in USD…). I don’t even recall any 800XE among my friends. I remember only 800XL or 65/130XE.

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

It's starting to look more and more like the 800XE was made for the German market. The 800XE was apparently also sold in other countries (such as in Poland, but also here in the Netherlands), but next to the 65XE and 130XE. The question still remains, why was the 65XE released as the 800XE in Germany?

@hyakin7818

4 ай бұрын

But property was theft Fair enough

I was. C= kid, but have to admit the industrial design of the Atari XE and ST is a lot nicer than the C64c and Amiga.👍

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

As an Atari fan I can only agree with that.

Great video! As an American, I'm always fascinated to learn more about Atari's history in European countries.👍

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

Thanks. In the last period of the former Atari, the company was more focused on Europe. At least for their computer models.

Really cool to see all these boards side by side to compare!!

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

What I now understand after a number of messages from people in response to the video is that the boards appears in all XE models.

You can test the GTIA for the known failures and check the GTIAfixer created to solve some of those isssues. My 800XE had the broken GTIA and GTIAfixer put between MB and the chip solved the timing issue I had.

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the info. I'll go do the test.

Thank you for creating this video, watching made me happy as I remembered back to my first home computer, the 130xe and the time I had self learning computer programming language as a child as well as the satisfaction I would feel when the code worked and figuring out when I’d gone wrong

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing. It makes me feel good when I hear that people enjoy my videos.

Great video. I found it very interesting. Thank you for sharing 😊

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

Thanks.

I was always curious about the Atari Computers. I used a Commodore Vic20, and C64. Most of the people I knew were using TRS80s, Apples, and IBM Clones. I never knew anyone who used the Atari. The ads in computer magazines did make them look cool.

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

The ads in the magazines looked cool indeed. That was one of the reasons why I chose the Atari 800XL, even though everyone around me had a Commodore 64.

@another3997

5 ай бұрын

The capabilities of the 1979 Atari 8 bits were far, far ahead of the Vic20 and early TRS computers, truly state of the art. So much so, that 3 years later, when the C64 was released, it really wasn't a huge step up from the Atari to C64, unlike the jump from Vic20 to Atari. 3 years was a long time in the hardware market back then, and the C64 still had a slower clocked 6502 based CPU, slower I/O and had a BASIC with NO graphics or sound commands. And in 1985 the Amiga came out, the hardware designed by several of the same people as the Atari 400/800.

@Applecompuser

4 ай бұрын

My hs freind had C 64. Some games like Wolfenstein, Archon and others were identical.

Interesant om de verschillen te zien. Jack had niet echt hart voor de Atari 8 bit lijn lijkt het. Ik ben blij opgegroeid te zijn met de C64 maar toch jammer dat de Atari gaandeweg de jaren '80 een beetje vergeten werd. Ik heb nu zelf een gemodde 800 XL (s-vid, extra RAM, OS ROM) en vind de Atari ervaring ook echt geweldig! Veel van de spellen uit begin jaren '80 zijn op de Atari minstens zo leuk en sommige kende ik nog helemaal niet natuurlijk. Nieuwe aanvullingen als Prince of Persia zijn ook fantastisch! Nu niet meer zo geïnteresseerd in "mijn oude computer was de beste" discussies, tenzij met een flinke knipoog maar blij dat we ze nog hebben en zo terug kunnen naar een simpelere, overzichtelijkere en in sommige opzichten leukere tijd.

@gespy

23 күн бұрын

Vroeger was het inderdaad altijd Commodore tegen Atari. Nu is dat gelukkig niet meer zo. Hierdoor begin ik nu steeds meer dingen van Commodore te ontdekken.

Very interesting video. Thanks!

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

Your welcome. Thanks to your support, I hope to continue making videos like this.

the 65XE in North America (Canada) doesn't have the second memory bank, the memory bank switch chip and the PBI interface, the slot isn't even moulded next to the cartridge port.

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

I suspect that in the beginning when in Europe still the 800XL was sold alongside the 130XE, in the US the 65XE was already on the market. And that model was probably the one that had its own motherboard, with only room for the first memory bank.

@perinoid

2 ай бұрын

NTSC 65XEs were ECI-less. Majority of european PAL versions had ECI - there was a board version with 8 memory chips only and an ECI port. But there were some PAL machines without an ECI port - they were sold here in Poland, for instance.

I am from the US. My first computer was Atari 800 48 K which I took to college (and had used in hs.) I have really fond memories of the computer. It makes me sad that this is least popular in retro community. During my senior thesis I water damaged keyboard and bought 130 XE which I really loved.

@fragalot

4 ай бұрын

It's there are lesser popular 8bit computers from this era than the Atari. Most other computer companies didn't survive past the 8bit days as Atari was one of those that survived into the 16bit era. Just like Commodore, Apple, and IBM/Clones did, but Radio Shack did not, Ti didn't, Sinclair also didn't. I think the BBC micro and Acorn's came into the 16 bit era, maybe, but I don't know the european market well at all.

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

I think in US, the Atari 800 is the most popular model in the retro community.

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

And Atari has even survived to this day. Although of course it is now a completely different company that carries the Atari name. But the current Atari is now trying to continue the legacy.

@fragalot

4 ай бұрын

@@gespy that is true.. the name has been passed around like the village bicycle. They have released questionable products, but a couple good ones.

Thank you for the comparison between the different XE computers. I didn't realize that the GTIA's were of a different quality...were they marked with a different chip part number? I need to take a closer look at my 130xe!

@gespy

6 ай бұрын

The partnumbers of the GTIA chips were the same. The other numbers were defferent.

@ngtflyer

4 ай бұрын

@@gespyI suspect the faulty GTIAs were produced by AMI. I am an arcade collector and we are dealing with a lot of POKEY failures in Atari games of the era. All of the failed POKEYs I have seen were produced by AMI. Also, Midway customs made by AMI (for MCR-1 games like Gorf) that fail are also AMI.

So, there is a model of 65XE that doesn't have the ECI port ( I have one). There is only the cartridge slot . The layout of the motherboard is identical to your last 130XE board(16 RAM chips) minus the one RAM row. I am not certain but you seem to be missing the XEGS machine with the keyboard. That board also has two single RAM slots but no empty ones to upgrade the memory. Finally , there is also the XLF type of motherboards found in XL machines in Europe (My first atari). The layout resembles the rest of the XL boards but it has an extra chip (found in XEs), the Freddie chip. I think we rounded up all the assailable boards of the line.

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

I think the XE's without ECI port were only released in the US. I also have an XEGS, I have a video about that too. I did not include that in the comparison, because the shape of the model made the board look quite different. I have seen some of the XLF models on the Internet, but have never come across one in real life.

@zbyseklipka406

4 ай бұрын

"The ECI was found on the 65XE (late production units only), the 130XE and the 800XE."

From the text on the board, I'm guessing there must exist a (late?) 130XE version which used the same motherboard as those 800XEs and 65XEs...

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

Indeed. Later 130XE's had exactly the same boards.

Color quality could vary because of analog part of the video circuit (depending on which signal was used). Least distorted on stock Atari would be S-Video (it should have Chroma signal almost directly from GTIA and Luminance via simple DAC circuit). I still have some very late mainboards from these computers (I guess they are QC rejects), and apart from wonky GTIA, they have self-destructing memory chips. I've heard that there's even stranger machine than these here - 800"XLF". Basically, a French version of 800XL with SECAM modulator, and some supposedly also with FREDDIE chip and maybe even 128K RAM. However, photos of XLF boards I saw look very much the same as plain XL.

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

Unfortunately I don't have a monitor with an S-Video connection.

@przemekkobel4874

5 ай бұрын

​@@gespyIf you have one with SCART, you can connect almost any analog video to it.

You forgot to mention the Atari 1200XL. That's the one I bought in the 80s. Perhaps it wasn't available in your country? It had the most elegant keyboard of any of the Atari computers and one of the very best of all home computers for the 80s.

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

Indeed it wasn't available in my country. But I still would like to have one! But that would be quite difficult.

This is very fascinating, thank you for sharing. I wasn't aware there was an 800XE model, which appears to be the same as the 65XE. I had always assumed these models were simply Jack Tramiel selling off existing inventory of the 8-bit 800XL, while also keeping with the new case design of the ST computer. My grandfather upgraded from an 800XL to the 130XE, and that's the model I'm most familiar with. It's an interesting design, cheaper build quality (of course), but as this video shows, better than the 65/800XE models. Of course, what would hurt Atari in the marketplace, once again, would be the presence of two different models that would force software developers to design for the cheaper (and presumably better selling) model. This haunted Atari Inc, and it continued to haunt Atari Corp as well. It's a pity, because we almost never got to see any software that took advantage of the 130XE's greater memory capabilities. Also, by the time the XE line was introduced in 1985, Atari was pretty much gone from the home computer market, either due to high prices, the Great Crash, or Atari's association with videogames (even though, let's be honest here, we mostly used these computers to play games). Oh, well. Thankfully, there continues to be a thriving fan community of Atari users and coders to this day, and the software library is vast and well worth exploring. Heck, have you seen Fuji Net, which lets you turn your Atari 8-bit into an online weather channel? It's amazing. The arrival of the retro-gaming Atari 400 Mini late this month will hopefully reignite some love for the Atari 8-bit, and spark interest with a new generation of fans. Great video, thanks once again.

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

From what I understand from several people commenting, there are also 65XE models of the same quality as my 130XE. All XE models were later made in China.

Hello, my first computer was Atari 130 XE bought in 1988/1989 by my parents after months of moaning and reading about computers, talking about it etc. I was 12 by this time living in Eastern Europe, Poland. I remember that the price was about 200 $ and about 10 $ for cassette recorder (or at least something about this price). It was bought in official Atari reseller shop (in Poland the name of shops was Pewex). But actually I have never heard about Atari 800XE sold in any official way in Poland at this time. Atari 65XE, Atari 130 XE was sold in Pewex, and Commodore C64 in Baltona shops in Poland at this time. If anyone has any other informations let me know. I was quite sure that Atari 800XE was exactly a result of marketing rules in West Germany. Atari 800XL was quite popular there so Atari decided to just change name to resemble more previous model. Just change my mind - is it true?

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

Now that's interesting information. So it seems that the stories going around that the 800XE was made for the Eastern European market are not really true. If only the 65XE and the 130XE were for sale there, then it indeed seems that the 800XE was made for the German market. That also explains the German 800XE brochure.

Thank you.

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching

Looks so much like an ST… the XLs were great loved those models

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

When the XE came out I thought they were quite nice. Mainly because I couldn't afford an ST at the time. Now they suffer a lot from yellowing.

I have a later model 800xl with rev c and a mechanical keyboard, i couldn’t believe my luck in 83-84 I had a early 800xl with Mylar keyboard and rev b basic

@gespy

6 ай бұрын

You were lucky indeed. Later models were almost all with a Mylar keyboard.

It may that the 800 name was more popular in certain regions? Or that in the west they wanted to present the 65XE as a new product? The XE came out alongside the ST line, the 520ST and the 1040ST. Maybe a marketing decision led to the 65XE/130XE, as 800XE and 1600XE (the logical name being it has twice the memory of the 800) would seem to imply they are better/more powerful than the 520ST and 1040ST... I'd assume as well, that there wasn't any confusion at the time in the markets the 800XE and the ST line co-existed.

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

It is still unclear why the 800XE name was chosen. It now seems that this model was intended for the West German market.

I had an 800XL and an XE manual. Seems the XE was the peak of the 8 bit line

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

But the 800Xl was of better build quality.

@SergiuszRoszczyk

Ай бұрын

XE line had rev C Basic while XL was released with rev B. From gaming perspective there was probably no difference. I like the XL quality but my first computer was 65XE and my ❤ is with this case style

I love my ataris, but not sure I would buy all the permutations. My collection include 400,800,600xl US and PAL ,800xl,1200,1200xl, 65xe,130xe, xegs. I think that is enough.

@gespy

23 күн бұрын

It looks like you already have all the models. That is indeed enough.

For us in former Yugoslavia ti was C64, ZX Spectrum 48K and Amstrad/Schnider CPC 464. I do not remember that I saw any Atari's before 520ST and 1040ST. Those Atari's were popular but not as popular as Amiga 500 and 1200.

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

So in former Yugoslavia the 8bit Atari's were released. Interesting. Thanks for the information.

@Dankas10

2 ай бұрын

@@gespy You get me wrong. There were no 8 bit Ataris in former Yugoslavia, only 16 bit in last few years of Yugoslavia. Actually, during 1980-ties and the entire 8 bit era only normally in store available purchases were Apple II line computers. That was because Apple II clones were produced in country and to get the licence they were obliged to have organized normal distribution line in country. But no one go there to buy computer since the custom duties and taxes we over 100%. Almost all 8 bit machines in Yugoslavia were purchased as so called "individual import from abord" done by individual persons. So if you want to buy you 8-bit PC you either went in Germany (most likely) or Austria or Italy by yourself by train or bus or car, bought the machine in store there and bring it home, or you asked someone to do that for you (that is how I get my C128). In last few years of Yugoslavia, post 1988 things get more normal but in that time era od 8 bit computers was over and that is why ST line of Atari machines become popular. Same was with software and we all used pirat software since normal distribution was non-existing. I know that sound totally stupid to your generation but that how it was back then.

@Dankas10

2 ай бұрын

@@gespy You get me wrong. They were not released in Yugoslavia. In fact during 8-bit era in 1980es all up until 1989 only Apple II line and domestically produced Apple II clones could be bought in stores. All other computers, C64 and 128, ZX Spectrum and QL, Amstrad/Schnider CPC 464 and 6128 we imported by individuals usually from Germany, Austria and Italy. Only in late 1980's(1988 - 1989) computers were available to be purchased normally but for 8-bit computers was to late. 8-bit Atari machines were not popular in Germany nether and that is why they were not popular in Yugoslavia also. Things were different with Atari ST line (520 and 1040) which were quite popular but also not like Amiga.

The XE range were very good looking computers, if not the best quality. I always hankered after one, and I still do, even if the 800 and 800XL were better built. I had a 400 and then an 800XL, before eventually moving to an Amiga 1200. My brother had the 600XL and then the XEGS. The original Amiga hardware was designed by several ex-Atari engineers who also designed the Atari VCS/2600 and the Atari 400/800 custom chips. So a Commodore is truly the spiritual successor to Atari 8 bits. 😂

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

And the Atari ST was developed by former Commodore people, who also worked on the C64. So the ST is truly the spiritual successor to the Commodore 64.

@VIC-20

5 ай бұрын

@@gespy with a worse sound chip! :)

@ArneChristianRosenfeldt

3 ай бұрын

@@VIC-20can you explain the low pass filter thingy to me? With so much RAM, would Paula ever need to stretch a wavetable so much that you hear the sampling rate? Also 4 channels instead of 3. If you agree on a sampling rate for all effects and percussion, you can use the CPU for blast processing and play them all on one channel. So you can actually have music AND sound effects in a game. So Paula much better than SID.

@VIC-20

3 ай бұрын

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Paula was better than SID. SID was better than whatever the sound chip was in the ST.

@ArneChristianRosenfeldt

3 ай бұрын

@@VIC-20 a marvel that Tramiel let an audio expert full reign over the chip an PCB around it. 12 V , extra 5 V supply. And Paula is the only chip which accepted that computer had a lot of memory and CPU power. Consoles would not catch up until 32 bit. And Paula could load two sample from a stream in one access while 64Bit Jaguar cannot! I don’t know what Atari was thinking. Give me an ISA where I can keep two phrases in cache and interpolate samples easily! Yeah, have a queue in DRAM and SRAM, but Paula managed to do that already… RAM will be a problem. How many kb do fit into a Tile? External DRAM with 8 bit data and 8 bit multiplexed address and RAS CAS WE fills up all the pins.

The colors can be adjusted with a color pot so the difference is not that important. You should have made a test against the GTIA fault - I bet, 800XE had it, 130XE hadn't and 65XE... well, both options are possible.

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

With my XEGS I indeed adjusted the colors with the pot (see kzread.info/dash/bejne/emuWqrOBqauplJc.html). But at the time I didn't had the impression that you could eliminate these major color differences.

I have a 65XE (with ECI) and 130XE and the 65XE’s video signal is nicer than he 130XE’s. (I don’t recall the motherboard revisions/types.) The keyboard can be improved using Best Electronics “ST Touch” silicone cups with a firmer and a bit “clicky” response.

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

These Best Electronics “ST Touch” silicone cups sound interesting. Do you have a link to their site?

I had assumed the 800XE was a rebranded 130XE, but it turns out it's a rebranded 65XE. this is because the 800 series of 8bit Atari's was usually considered the "best" of it's generation so naturally it would had been the version that had the most RAM. The original 800 had 48k (400 had 16k), the 800XL had 64k (600XL had 16k), and logically a 800XE would have 128k, or maybe more than the 130XE had... but nope.

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

Atari's naming policy was often difficult to follow.

I think he’s a Dutch guy 😅he speaks “coal miner” English 😊 Nonetheless a great video, nice research!

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

You guessed it right, I am indeed Dutch! I hope that despite my coal miner English, the videos are still good to follow.

@CallousCoder

5 ай бұрын

@@gespy they are nice! No worries! 😉

Nice looking machines but software was king and the spectrum, C64 and Amstrad cpc always had more games on the shelves in the UK so edged out most other systems in the 80s. So many individual systems back then it was a great thing to experience and led to many IT careers.

@Applecompuser

4 ай бұрын

In the US, C64 had more software. I think bc it had more memory and also more were sold. So, it was like a Doom Loop for Atari.

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

Here in the Netherlands, the C64 also sold much more than the Atari XL/XE. But I think after the C64 came the Atari.

@Applecompuser

4 ай бұрын

@@gespy In the US, I believe, C64 came after Atari, but sold more. There was so much more software for C64. I lived in quasi remote area and did not know of many speciality places and of course it was a bit pre-Internet. With benefit of hindsight, i can now see I there were user groups etc etc I had no idea about. The Vic 20 had been out earlier but it was very niche product.

1200XL owners represent ;)

@gespy

3 ай бұрын

I would really like to have a 1200XL. But it is so difficult to find one in Europe.

I always thought the reason for the XEs was just selling the same old technology in a more modern disguise, for some easy money and hopefully losing less to others like the C64... (did not watch the video, yet ;) )

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

That could indeed also be possible. But the most common heard reason is that Jack Tramiel always went for the lowest price and realized that not everyone could afford the ST computers. I definitely recommend that you watch the video. 😁

@Applecompuser

4 ай бұрын

PS I would love an adaptor to plug an Atari drive into a modern mac. I kept all my software disks through a few moves and one divorce. Lol

Not absolutely accurate, the 800XE was made long before change in eastern block. In fact I got mine in 1986 and was "imported" from West Germany. Also as far as I remember it was made in Taiwan. The keyboard was probably made in China, since it suffered of leads delamination on the membrane.

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

So the 800XE was already there in 1986, almost from the beginning. The fall of the Berlin Wall was in 1989 and the ending of the CoCom embargo was in 1994. So that was indeed way after the introduction of the 800XE.

hello from Poland we are not Easter Europeans❤😅

@gespy

3 ай бұрын

You are right. Its central Europe.

Your missing the 1200xl

@gespy

6 ай бұрын

Indeed, that one is still missing. But that model was never released here in the Netherlands.

@pfcrow

5 ай бұрын

@@gespy I was expecting to see a discussion of the 1200XL like this. It's widely regarded as having the best keyboard of all the Ataris except that it suffers from a delamination problem so most now require repair. Too bad it was rushed. It's essentially an 800XL without the PBI port, four extra function keys (F1-F4), the cartridge slot on the side, and a longer case. Also, instead of the self-test found in the other XL computers, it had a cool Atari logo that cycled through all the colors. It was widely criticized because the OS had significant compatibility issues with the 400/800 computers, so too many programs wouldn't run on it. They fixed the majority of those when they released the 800XL and also developed a fixed revision for the 1200XL that was never released. Of course, you could run older software with the translator disk that loaded the 800 OS on it, but that was a pain to use. The aborted 1400XL was in the same case as the 1200XL, only with the PBI port added and other new features on the motherboard. Too bad it never shipped. It was supposedly very close when Jack took over and axed everything.

The most stupid one was the XE GS. Who the hell was it for?

@gespy

3 ай бұрын

The XEGS was released as a competitor to the Nintendo NES and to get rid of the stock of cartridges and parts. I also made a video about that: kzread.info/dash/bejne/emuWqrOBqauplJc.html

The XL looked ugly. The silver buttons didn't line up exactly. "Spaltmaße" (clearance) like american cars...

@gespy

4 ай бұрын

That's a matter of taste. I think the XL computers are one of the most beautiful computers ever made. But maybe I'm also a little blinded, because it was my first computer.

Atari Gita chips

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

You mean GTIA chips. Or do you mean you discovered I mispronounced it somewhere in the video?

I have an 800XE which was built in Taiwan and the board looks like your 130XE, but with only half the RAM. So not all 800XEs were built in China.

@gespy

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing. This is valuable information. We can now conclude not only that not all 800XEs came from China, but also that some 800XEs were made outside China. This completely eliminates the link between 800XE and China. Then the only open question is left whether the 800XE was initially only intended for eastern Europe.

@falkbuettner

5 ай бұрын

@@gespy I think You already made the correct suggestion in your video that 800XE was only called 800XE for east European countries to keep the established 800 number from the 800XL. I bought mine in 1988 in East Germany. Your 65XE is actually already a “cost reduced” XE, same as the 800XE. The original 65XE does not have the expansion port next to the module port at the rear of the machine. Thanks for your video. I enjoyed it. :)

Interesting video. 65XEs are pretty hard to come by in Czech Republic, with 800XEs being way more common. All my 5 800XEs have 8 banks of RAM chips with 8 more unpopulated, so they're clearly based on the older 130XE design, which makes sense as I've never had any issues with GTIA etc. I still like the XL series more - better look and nicer keyboard altough there's also at least 4 manufacturers of them I think, with some having nice mechanical alps keys and other can be very mushy.

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

So the 800XE were very common in the Czech Republic, interesting to know. And apparently there are also 800XE's that were not the cheap China versions. Does the label say where they were made? Was that also Taiwan?

@snap_oversteer

2 ай бұрын

@@gespyI've now checked and indeed all my 800XEs and 130XEs are made in Taiwan, same goes for the one XEGS that I have. Sadly I don't know the history for any of them as I've bought almost all of them around 10-15 years ago when almost nobody wanted them.

@gespy

2 ай бұрын

This undermines the theory that the 800XE was made as a cheap alternative for the dumped 800XLs.

@snap_oversteer

2 ай бұрын

@@gespyYeah it's probably more complicated, I thnk also quilte a lot of Atari 8bits in the former Czechoslovakia were imported from the west unoficially, for example one 800XL set I've bought included lot of original UK games and notes in English. And my mom bought one in the Netherlands in 1988 when she was allowed to travel there during studies, but I don't know if it was XL or XE and which one as it's long gone. I was born after the era of 8bits so I'm only guessing from what I've heard and collected over the years.

@woodcat7180

2 ай бұрын

Back then I got mine from the Tuzex store in Czechoslovakia with XC12 cassette player. Later I had the player modified with some module to speed up loading significantly (from 300 to 2000 baud I think) and it came with cartage as I had use it to load Turbo Basic (by holding button on the cartage and I think Option and Start at the same time ) every power up to make this work. It also had an empty row of memory chips.