The 'Haymarket' roundabout near melbourne uni and the royal melbourne hospital, where Flemington Road meets Elizabeth St, has to be the worst/ most confusing intersection. Every time I go through there, multiple cars don't know what lane to be in and try cut across all 3 lanes in the middle of each cycle resulting in near misses and way less cars getting through per light cycle. Every entry point into the intersection has the issues, mainly due to the trams and the lanes of traffic being separated by garden bed mediums so you need to be in the correct lane some distance before you get to the intersection. Love your videos Phillip.

@danielsmyth7508

Ай бұрын

I remember attempting to navigate it at night and only an old melways last year (had already been caught using phone as a GPS by a cop, didn't want to risk another go) Needless to say I had to backtrack more than once

@christine7379

Ай бұрын

The Flemington Rd/Elizabeth St roundabout used to be far more challenging to navigate before they installed traffic lights there (I'm guessing around 20+ years ago). Much easier to navigate now in comparison, it was a free for all back then and no warning of trams crossing like today. I remember trying to navigate it in the 90s when I first got my licence, it was overwhelming.

@BassMatt1972

Ай бұрын

nah this is WAY worse.. I lived 1 street away, this intersection had a multi-car accident every single day..

@AidenWColla

Ай бұрын

@@danielsmyth7508 Its definitely hard to navigate if you aren't super familiar with it. At least you didn't cut across the traffic, no shame in chuckin' a Uey. I gave direction to someone to drive thru there once, trying hard to explain what lane to being in at what time. The person still ended up going towards coburg not towards essendon like they wanted. Added almost 30mins to their journey.

@xr6lad

Ай бұрын

No. That’s because Australians are generally useless when it comes to using roundabouts in my experience. You are meant to approach them looking at the traffic - not get to the white line then take your time looking round.

Another vote for the Haymarket Roundabout, it’s bad enough already but the trams through the middle of it add a lot of extra spice.

@intensecutn

28 күн бұрын

Don't wanna be in the wrong lane when you're on a time constraint!

Check out the 5 ways roundabout system in Mooroolbark, 3 roundabouts all together.

@abhchow

Ай бұрын

Yep +1 for that, plus Google Maps thinks that different parts of each roundabout are the different roads that go through there, so it gives you extremely confusing directions when you try to navigate it

@arthurvandelaney5470

Ай бұрын

Was gonna suggest this! It's.. unique.. that's for sure

@abstractions1816

Ай бұрын

I live just down the road from there, going through it most days When I first moved there, I had no idea what the hell I was doing and would often end up going down the wrong street/in the wrong lane

@joshipokemongiveaways5084

Ай бұрын

It’s fun having to do your license test at the vicroads directly next to it LOL

@taylor....

Ай бұрын

I was living in the western subs, and my mate warned me the 5 ways was ahead, I said okay cool, and continued to chat I got through it and made a joke about what I was chatting about, all 3 passengers looked at me in absolute shock, I said what's wrong. They said "You just navigated the worst intersection in the world and you didn't miss a beat." IT'S NOT THAT HARD PEOPLE! give way to your right pick your lane and most importantly USE YOUR BLINKERS!! something the Eastern suburbs are allergic to do is let any other road user know which way they're going.

The worst = the mega-section at Montague & Lorimer, and the adjacent/agglomerated Westgate Freeway interchange. That is truly a gigantic monster of a mega-section that extends around 300m north-south, and at it's widest is effectively 13 - yes THIRTEEN - lanes wide. A pedestrian trip from the NE side outside DFO South Wharf Shopping Centre, to the SW side at Brady/Johnston St, Port Melbourne is over 360m and crosses 29 separate lanes of traffic, across 13 separate crossing sections. Part of the mega-section includes on/off ramps to the WG Freeway from 10 different directions. Oh and in addition, while not directly interacting with the intersection, there are 13 further freeway lanes flying over the top of it.

@dle9693

28 күн бұрын

a classic example where more lanes ≠ the answer when it comes to managing traffic

@bobjones7776

5 күн бұрын

Its big but not bad, text on road prepares you for the lane, and its quite low in traffic. Walking across it is intimidating though totally haha

After watching so many American-centric videos on KZread, it's refreshing to see something so local and so well researched. Liked and Subscribed! This video answers questions I never knew I had!

The biggest crime is that the Funereal Home on the corner of Police road Springy went up for sale a few years ago and the government didnt buy the land. Would have been a crucial piece of land for fixing the intersection. Now it just has cheap houses on it

@lostn65

17 күн бұрын

Makes sense that they put a funeral home in a convenient location. Definite synergy in planning.

@ianmontgomery7534

14 сағат бұрын

they should just elevate the Princes Highway for through traffic both ways.

Please check out the junction in North Essendon - Mount Alexander / Keillor / Bulla / Lincoln Roads - with the 59 tram going through it.

@KevinBalaam

Ай бұрын

That. And the one at Fletcher St near Essendon Station, which had suggestions to be totally altered with undergrounding of the railway line.

@pigglebee

Ай бұрын

Going along mt Alexander Rd is like a gauntlet of various terrible intersections, with slight differences between each of them but all pretty awful and dangerous

@Neemo9

Ай бұрын

@@KevinBalaam how could I forget this one! The number of near misses with pedestrians… omg

@Neemo9

Ай бұрын

@@pigglebee so true. Moonee Ponds junction is pretty hectic too.

@Wtrxprs007able

Ай бұрын

I agree with this. Spaghetti junction is actually pretty easy to use compared to what ever the hell is going on in Essendon.

So incredibly pleased to see this done! The existence of this intersection says a lot about the mess that is the initial planning of Springvale, Clayton and Oakleigh.

My mum was involved in a t bone crash at this intersection in the early 90s, nearly losing her right leg and completely writing off her car, i drive through there regularly now and still get confused by all the different turning lanes and lights and everything, very overwhelming for someone who’s never been through there before!

Philip, outstanding research and documentary as we have come to expect. Many thanks !

When I was at high school in the late 70's, we had an exam task to fix some of Melbourne's road intersections. I chose the Springvale junction to work on. I used to go there to study the traffic patterns and for me it became obvious that both Springvale rd and Police/Center rds needed to become a double elevated bridge roads that would have off and on ramps to each other and Princess hwy. I wish I kept it as it gave me 100% marks in year 5 and the design was really good.

P turns were all the rage at the time. Cranbourne road Frankston got one to help with traffic between Eastlinks construction and the opening of Peninsula Link, but it doesn’t do much these days since its opposing turn lane is still active.

Excellent video. I can remember when spaghetti junction only had lights on Princes highway west and eastbound. The rest of the feeder turns had stop signs. It was a nightmare and this was AFTER they realignment of Springvale road. A roundabout would be useless and frustrating and also just as dangerous. An overpass from the slight hill (at the intersection which turns into the Coles shopping centre) back over the Princes highway would mean Springvale road would be continuous at that point and the underlying road network would be easier to navigate. It will probably never happen in my lifetime as it would be expensive and make the local shop owners angry. The other thing is that the government is making an absolute killing with the newly installed speed and red light cameras at the junction. The green sequence can vary considerably at different times of the day catching drivers out and the 3 to 4 second yellow sequence is a joke because the intersection is so wide you will never clear it in time. Licence to print money for our cash-strapped government!

Ah Philip great memories! In 1993 I had my one and only car accident there! After finishing work on a miserable wet night at “The Grogfathers” in Springvale South and heading to my parents house in Mulgrave, I was turning right from Springy Road into Police Road. The intersection is so large that as you turn right the lights are already red as you are exiting the the intersection and entering Police Road (Kentucky Fried on your right). I was the last of six cars that went through the intersection. The first car stopped at the pedestrian crossing on the inside of the intersection (yes they stopped inside the intersection!!) the 3 cars behind then ploughed into them, the 5th car turned right onto Princess Highway and I was then confronted with the pile of cars in front of me completely unsighted because of the car that has just been in front. There was no ABS on my 1975 Valiant Galant and having had my licence all of 4 months I locked in up nicely and did the best I could to insert my car into the anus of the driver of the car in front. Initially I thought that I was liable for all damage to all cars but the Police attended and actually charged the lead driver with an driving offence. As such that persons insurance company paid for the damage to all cars. I pocketed the insurance cheque for the repairs to my car and proceeded to head back past the scene of the “crime” along Police road to a wreckers in Clayton where I picked up a new bumper, two front quarter panels, headlights, indicators and a grille. A couple of spray cans later and I was back on the road with even less street cred than a factory spec Valiant Galant commanded at the time!!

Great research. In the early 60s on a Sunday mum and dad took us to visit people who lived off Police road. Coming from the city on Princess Hwy. was always a treat. I would ride with my friend from his house to the intersection to watch the car crashes. Never failed. I think it didnt have traffic lights on all the roads. Not sure but was a hectic place to cross. There were far less lanes then ,too. Thanks for your efforts and brilliant research. Kororoit Ck Rd in Altona used to cross Geelong Rd near where the Laverton speedway was located . Imagine 60mph speed limit on Geelong Rd and a flat uncontrolled crossing. More Sunday fun.Quite a few deaths from memory. Not to mention Fitzgerald Rd crossing both Dohertys and Boundary Rds Laverton Nth still unsigned in the early 70s. Lots of deadly crashes there.

Bulla Rd and Keilor Rd in Essendon. Pascoe Vale and Mt Alexander in Moone Ponds. And Spring and High Street in Reservoir

@mads-b7365

Ай бұрын

god the cheddar road and edwardes st one? thats an absolute nightmare lol

@RcottR

Ай бұрын

@@mads-b7365 yep that's the one. Getting rid of the level crossing made it a tad better but still an absolute spaghetti junction.

I was speechless when they built up the Coles / Spotlight / Supercheap shopping centre in the early 2000's. Now they've made more horrid housing on the old John Allison Monkhouse site. It's unbelievable to think they never made Princess Hwy as an overpass. It would solve so many of the issues. Cheers Phil ✌️

@scana1979

Ай бұрын

remember seeing demolition of houses in the late 80s/early 90s at the northern end of Stephans Ave and Garde Ave - with the intended development never eventuating amidst the recession at the time. The land sat vacant for some time and the shopping centre eventually went up.

@74_pelicans

Ай бұрын

Let alone all the row houses on the opposite corner. Must be hell living there

@bushranger51

Ай бұрын

An overpass for there for Dandenong Rd. would be good, there's enough room on the centre median to build it without too much traffic disruption, with slip lanes for both Springvale and Centre/Police Roads, controlled by traffic lights. Maybe make it a 3 tier overpass so all three roads have dedicated through lanes is another idea that could be considered, just a thought.

@Lazy_Llama

Ай бұрын

@@74_pelicans Yep and those terribly located 3 bedroom town houses were going for around 700k... its so messed up.

@gasmaskery

28 күн бұрын

That batch of shops used to be one of Australias only nativegas related PPE manufacturers, lunguard IPCO, it ceased production some time in the 80s.

Being a from Melbourne I love your content. I have learnt so much from your videos. I have spent a lot of time waiting for those lights to change. Come to think of it I'm still waiting 😅

The intersection that most spooked me in my first months in Melbourne was Somerville Rd heading east trying to cross Geelong Road. Not expecting that merely crossing a major road to carry on straight to be difficult I think we drove down Roberts St by mistake. In the years since then I've never needed to repeat that exact crossing so I expect it's a rare path to want to follow.

I second the motion on that Moorolbark 5 ways cluster FUK !!! I have actually looked at some old pics of this intersection and it was a collection of old goat tracks that never was re-routed.

I’ve been stuck at the Springvale junction when the lights weren’t working. Absolutely terrifying.

Hi Phil, I grew up in Springvale, I already knew about the huge problem with Spaghetti Junction, they will never get it right, and just recently they have installed red light cameras that just seem to go off at a drop of a hat, I don't know how fly overs would have worked. I wonder how the traffic would have been if a road way had of gone though many many years ago, that road way was Withworth Avenue, it was supposed to go through from Springvale Road to Westall Road, how I know about this was my parents bought a block of land in the mid 1950's on East State named Glendale Estate and the subdivision map showed that Withworth Avenue was to go from Springvale Road to Westall Road, just thought I'd give a bit of local history.

@ethanmason2001

26 күн бұрын

Haha I rave about those red light cameras every time I’m there. You have to sit there for less than a minute and someone will set them off

@keanchan9462

26 күн бұрын

Lol, just got a red light fine at the right turn from Princes hwy into springvale road last month. I just turn right at Westall road now🤣

For me the Pascoe Vale Road, Mount Alexander Road and Ascot Vale Road intersection in Moonee Ponds is the most confusing especially when there’s a bus stop right in the centre of it all plus looking out for trams as well

Interesting to see that John Allison Monkhouse Funeral directors were once on the northeastern corner of the junction and replaced a row of houses previously there. In recent years the funeral home was demolished to be itself replaced with a row of apartments seen at 4:12, all facing west and overlooking the intersection - couldn't be too pleasant a place to live!

Thank you Philip great information and video.

I cannot image how a round about would work here.

@bury_the_elite65294

Ай бұрын

Nor can I. It would probably be even less successful than the A780 (Westernport Hwy) & Thompsons Road intersection in Cranbourne West. I lived in the area from the late 1990s - early 2010s, and the peak-hour at that intersection was a bloody nightmare! I'd hate to see what it's like now, with all the urban sprawl going on in the area...

@shraka

Ай бұрын

Yeah, it seems like dandy should just over-fly the whole thing, or do something sensible like reduce all the lanes on every approach and traffic calm the hell out of it.

@TorchIGN

Ай бұрын

It would be alot of fun though 😅

@timgooding2448

Ай бұрын

@@TorchIGN You have a strange idea about what fun is.

@pear-zq1uj

26 күн бұрын

a roundabout would probably cause even more crashes

Good video. Thanks for providing links to resources, that's great.

You're doing a great service here Phillip! I've really enjoyed watching your videos, looking forward to future vids! The Springy Rd / Dandy Rd intersection is a nightmare, I was actually just driving through it today, doing a right turn from Springvale Rd South, onto Princes Hwy going towards Dandenong. Painful and really confusing. St Kilda (Fitzroy St) has always confused me, it might be good to do a vid about that difference in grade roughly where the Espy is. Or St Kilda Junction. Mooroolbark's famous "5 Ways Roundabout" is another VERY confusing one. And quite a dangerous one - Mt Alexander Rd in Essendon, beside The Linc. A couple of suggestions of possible future vids: - the origins of the CBD hook turns - the history of some of our universities or the Botanical Gardens - more railway history from wider Victoria, that stuff is fun 😊

great video as always Philip!

The best thing is I go through all Essendon junction, Haymarket and Springvale junction on the same day twice a week. You get the hang of it. Ding ding, tram!

I remember driving through the intersection on Springvale Road from the late 1960s. There were always tow trucks lined up in anticipation at night, especially Fridays and Saturdays.

@sergeant5848

18 күн бұрын

You can't blame the intersection for accidents; Twas the Dandy race meets and novice racers causing the crashes!

When I was 3 I can remember an effigy of Ronald Ryan hanging from a post on the bridge over the creek near the intersection. I remember it vividly as my dad got out of the car, ripped it down and threw it in the creek.

The waterway that caused the discontinuity of Springvale Road is the eastern tributary of Mile Creek with the upper catchment in the retarding basin between the Monash Freeway and Mazenod College. The western tributary continues northwest towards the Clayton North area passing under Wellington Road near Monash University. They meet west of Springvale as a channelised waterway through there and Noble Park except for the dammed area in Sandown Racecourse before reverting to a semi natural state to Dandenong Creek. The channelisation of it was to deal with the flooding the area was notorious for in the early days.

I actually lived near and traveled through that for 5 of the years mentioned it having so many fatalities. It is a bit of a mess trying to go certain directions if you haven't done it before, and then the other obstacle of other poor buggers who haven't. Its worth checking out 5 ways in Mooroolbark, that's a bit of a mess but at least I find you can sort of see from a distance the route you need to take. Thats the biggest issue with this intersection - if you aren't starting/finishing on Princes or Springvale you often can't see from the start point where you need to be to get where you want to go 🤣 The hazard at 5 ways is crossing 3 bloody roundabouts and sometimes not realising you need to give way 3 separate times in a short space.

This is a sweet video! Would love a look at the triple roundabout setup in Moorolbark 😊😊

I always enjoy your videos Phil, well done. The Springvale Rd intersection has always been a problem. It’s main purpose is being the perfect example of what shouldn’t be done. The roundabout option is not practicable, given the traffic volumes using this intersection. I believe the only realistic solution is the underpass and overpass solution. - Dandenong Road being the dominant thoroughfare should remain at grade. - Springvale Road should become an overpass. - Centre Road should become an underpass. The turning lanes will become ramps. Some right turn options may need to be omitted to help minimise footprint. Upstream or downstream P-turns can be added to compromise. The links to the minor roads need to be shifted away from the intersection to create space. This approach could be progressively implemented of several stages to keep the intersection open. It is all do-able and utilises many of the innovative technologies developed under the rail crossing removal project.

@sergeant5848

18 күн бұрын

All these options sound great... Except for the small issue of one D.Andrews sending Victoria close to bankruptcy. But then again, there's always Belt and Road I guess. You got what you vote for Victorians!

Try the roundabout / traffic light concoction at the end of the Mornington Peninsula Freeway at Rosebud with the freeway extension! Even after community consultation about poor foot traffic movement and confusing lane changes in the roundabouts supposedly corrected it still is a s...show. Alos there is a lot of history for the Nepean Highway, Jetty Rd and Eastbourne Rd areas that you could explore!

@darrenmiles-morland8038

Ай бұрын

The roundabout at Somerville that intersects Eramosa Roads East and West, Grant Road, and Frankston-Flinders Road is another blackspot intersection on the Mornington Peninsula that continually gets overlooked. This intersection is a double roundabout because Eramosa Roads East and West don't fall perfectly into alignment with one another. On top of the 5 way intersection of roads that pass through it, it's also right alongside of a congested railway level crossing.

@Kni0002

Ай бұрын

they should extend the freeway before some stupid government thinks it’s a good idea to sell it to a housing developer

@darrenmiles-morland8038

24 күн бұрын

@@Kni0002 It would also be a good idea in the meantime to duplicate the section that runs between Jetty Road and Boneo Road, and then have an extension constructed. This section of road opened in the mid 1990s, and has remained incomplete and unduplicated ever since. All that has ever been done to this single carriageway of road has been to put bars up the middle of it so that traffic cannot overtake and risk being involved in head on collisions. But this is a freeway that we're talking about, and freeways are supposed to have two seperate roads of traffic travelling in one way directions.

I'm living in Melbourne but haven't always done so. And it's bizarre to me how everyday/matter-of-fact the people here seem to treat these things. I'm sure there's horrible challenges with developing public infrastructure as city expands, I've got sympathy for that. But this intersection is one of many many places that seemingly haven't been thought out in the slightest. If other forms of public infrastructure were as badly designed as to have that level of danger, they'd be closed until they were rectified. Browsing the comments and it's all just so normalised for everyone, it's really wacky. Having said all that, I really appreciate the vid, the research and the images. Not only a fan of local histories but this helps shed some light on how situations like this evolve in the first place. It's good work :)

Nice video :D This junction always has a lot of traffic during peaks (even off-peaks), and I've found that a lot of the cause of it are the short traffic cycles. For example, in 1 cycle, Centre Rd gets a green for a really short amount of time, before switching red again, so much so that most of the time cars are jammed up to halfway between Westall Rd and Springvale Junction; at that point you might as well take Princes Hwy.

If you're maintaining direction, the Springvale intersection is reasonably straight forward, turning right is always an issue. There's actually a worse intersection 1.5km's north east from this one, the unnecessary Blackburn Rd into Westall Rd scramble.

@robvegas9354

Ай бұрын

that is a mission going from from blackburn rd to westall rd

@laustinspeiss

Ай бұрын

* north west !

Would love a video on the old Hume highway (Victoria section). Thank you! Great vids

@vsvnrg3263

Ай бұрын

back in the early 80's, there was a sign on mickelham road, the further end away from melbourne, it might have been a dirt road, that said 'old sydney road'. so yes i agree, just to find out if it was the original alignment.

@jesus_built_my_hotrod

Ай бұрын

@@vsvnrg3263 i dont remember it being dirt (i started driving in 89) but you could definitely get through that way

@darylcheshire1618

Ай бұрын

I have a NSW publication of the history of Hume Hwy, an interesting read.

@vsvnrg3263

Ай бұрын

@@jesus_built_my_hotrod , i remember the sign well. far enough north that i think the asphalt had stopped. fading paint. timber sign on a timber post. i think i had to walk over a heap of dirt to get a closer look at it. it might have been in the late 70's.

@KevinBalaam

Ай бұрын

@@jesus_built_my_hotrod City of Hume has many sealed roads that become gravel at the local government boundaries.

You could have also mentioned Frankston's P-turn as well. I had heard Springvale was Spring Vale, much like Lang Warrin. Although Langwarrin actually started out in Pearcedale, which is why Langwarrin Creek runs through Pearcedale, but not through Langwarrin. Happy to explain that whole saga to you if you like or lend you some books and point you in the right direction.

Your videos are the best!

I live in Moonee Ponds, and aside from the infamous Moonee Ponds Junction, I just feel the northwest (from North Melbourne up past Essendon) is full of weird intersections, roundabouts etc.

Im surprised this wasnt covered in the video..... The OLD name for this junction in the 1970s & 80s was "Blanchard's corner" because there used to be a huge Holden dealership at the intersection called Blanchards motors, they were there until early 2000s I believe(?)....google has links to their photos & history.🙏🤟

The round about with trams setup in Essendon north is a doozy too

Thanks Phil. My brother lives in Mulgrave and only last week had the classic crash of a car coming from Centre Rd, wanting to turn right into Springvale Rd. My brother was on Springvale Rd, heading West to go onto Police Rd and got the green light. Instant T Bone at 15km's hr., thankfully no injuries. Seems the other driver jumped the orange/red light on Centre road and was in no mans land when they connected. Fair to say no mans land seems to covers about 2000m2 at this blackspot🙃 Sad thing is, the insurance companies will determine who's premium will go up. I wonder what their algorithm, based on stats, will show who was at fault?? Wait and see. Keep up the great work! Luv your channel👍

Love it. Fix an issue with too many roads by building more roads lol

Well you talked about Kew Juncition before... I think Moonee Ponds Junction is quite fascinating, but not as confusing... I remember how the junction with city link and Flemington rd was a problem which could have been (IMO), with just alternating traffic, but opted with more complicated option, by adding a bridge/sliplane and still alternating traffic... Not an intersection but the exit of Bell st from Tullamarine is a mess... Anyhow enjoyed your videos as usual...

Have a friend rear ended at the Springvale junction but also know somebody who had an accident at the Haymarket roundabout. There may be newer issues but you’ve got to give it to one of these two simply for the longevity of their problems.

I did an epic burnout there once, in my Torana.

@spuki6328

Ай бұрын

The tyre marks are still there mate LOL

@burnsy96

2 күн бұрын

Ah so you're one of "those" people.

Interesting video. I have never had any problems with the intersection.

@74_pelicans

Ай бұрын

Yeah same, and if there is a problem you're going so slow it's easy to avoid a collision

I used to commute through this junction driving NW on PH from Dandenong, then taking Centre Road to go W. Unless you are used to it, a new driver at the intersection would be very confused, if they don't understand the road layout, lanes and signs. No wonder they keep crashing to this day.

i drive through it often and always think it's too developed now to rebuild this and also i think how did it get this way!? great vid. maybe they should look into a combination of some of those improvements.

Please have a look at Camberwell Junction. It's equally complex.

@dougieboxell6505

Ай бұрын

I live in Camberwell, and have driven through Springvale Junction a gazillion times, as well as every other intersection mentioned here. None of them are difficult or dangerous. I can't fathom how bad drivers must be to find any of these difficult or to crash in any of these spots.

@mollyfud

Ай бұрын

@@dougieboxell6505 Have you turned from Center road onto the HWY? That is the one that gives most people the issue! The traffic signals give all traffic from Center road and all traffic from police road the green on the first pass. The turn from Center road is long and sweeping. If your not use to the intersection, you might not be awake to the traffic from Police road and that is where most accidents happen. After a short period, the police road traffic gets a red and a green turning arrow makes it safe to turn. While it's not impossible to understand the intersection, it is unusual and those not use to it can get themselves in trouble if they make a wrong assumption or some one is speeding to make the police road light! Personally, I hate the short arrow turning right onto to Springvale road. Even though it's probably slower, I hate waiting there so much, I often come down North onto Springvale rather than wait for that light. JMTC

@JohnFromAccounting

24 күн бұрын

The only issue with Camberwell Junction is the Camberwell Rd section. The trams should go straight instead of turning onto Riversdale, with some of Camberwell Rd being inaccessible to cars.

it is soooo VicRoads to do a study in 2016, come up with multiple options for improvements, and then do nothing! I spent my school days going through this intersection twice a day. More recently, I navigated it while doing my motorcycle licence at Sandown: that was a little more intimidating.

A Princes Highway overpass is the only solution here. Can't see why they'd need to buy up properties either, as there is enough space. The cost issue is laughable, considering blowouts on other road projects in the state.

@shraka

Ай бұрын

I think we'd be better off reducing lanes, blocking centre road off (it has a better intersection further back) and have spring / dandy and police /dandy be two separate intersections. With the extra lanes from lane reduction add a light rail down Springvale to add capacity back in. At the very least the through road from Centre to Police need to be taken out. Have Centre merge into Springvale then turn right into Dandy and treat Dandy / Police as a separate intersection.

@egorpavlikhin969

13 күн бұрын

In the finished state it wouldn't take much space but you would need far more space than is available to actually build it in the first place.

St Kilda junction has been tamed. But I can remember the old woodblocked junction with trams added to make it interesting. Eight roads met at this point approximately. Making it an absolute terror. Using grade separation and making the Nepean Highway take a different route from the Princes Highway on the approaches have made it easier to navigate WITHIN the intersection but planning must be done to avoid being trapped on a road you don't want to take. Nelson St, Wellington St, Barkly St, Fitzroy st, Albert St, st Kilda Road north and south, Punt road, Queens Road and the princes highway. Speeds were lower but it make the springvale road intersection seem like child's play.

Oh gosh! I sometimes go through here to try and get to Police Road! This is definitely the most confusing junction. I would have also chosen the old rounadabouts along Williamsons Road and Porter Street and Fitzsimons Lane and Main Road as also very confusing and dangerous. It is a whole lot better now with traffic lights.

I'd love to see the highway be a 3 lane overpass, Springvale rd be a 2 lane tunnel under the intersection, and then a roundabout for where the rest of the roads meet in the middle. Never gonna happen though..

I go through here every day

It's bad enough for local residents and still throws up dangerous and tricky situations I could only imagine an American or French tourist who are used to left hand drive and their roads being the opposite driving a hire car on holidays would be most likely terrified trying to negotiate this intersection

Never found this intersection to be a problem - until the first time I tried turning right from Police Road into Princes Highway (city bound), nearly having a head-on with traffic turning right from Centre Road into Princes Highway. It looks like the part of the road they use is for you to use...

Reservoir Junction (High St/Spring St/Cheddar Rd/Broadway) for my least favourite junction to drive through. Especially back before they replaced the level crossing for the South Morang train line with sky rail.

It’s great to look at the map, and ask “what would other cities have done with this?” Sydney would have had an overpass in the 1990s Britain would have had a roundabout. Probably two in fact. You know the Magic Roundabout? It looks like this area a bit. There’s also double roundabouts everywhere, like the Liverpool one in the titles of the KZreadr who’s a driving instructor.

@shraka

Ай бұрын

The Dutch would have added Bike lanes, simplified the intersection, lowered the speed limits, pulled up road to widen the bike lanes, lowered the speed limit again, added state of the art signalling, gotten the accident rate down and increased throughput of people before belatedly adding transit.

I've been a volunteer with the CFA for 8 years (3 of which I was assigned too Springvale CFA) and I can say the number of callouts we had (often both Brandon Park MFB and Springvale CFA both responded to major incidents here as it falls without both jurisdictions) was ridiculous. I would agree that this is probably the highest incident intersection in Victoria (possibly Australia) With fatal/major road collusions put aside, the number of minor crashes that happens is crazy. Some days we would have 2 or 3 callouts to separate crashes here. However, in low visibility and wet conditions it turns into a nightmare.

Absolutely great video. Im a geologist at Monash university and i would love to know where you got this data from!

The only improvements over the past 2 years are the multiple speed cameras they have invested in the intersection. Let’s get money from drivers rather than investing money on improving the intersection. I have always said that they will build an overpass/underpass for Princes Hwy but I have been saying this for 30 years.

It's a shocker. I had to stay at the hotel on the NW wedge, I gave up trying to get across to the food strip on the SE corner for dinner.

Intersection at Flemington Bridge is a nightmare, or really the three intersections around the triangle block: Citylink/Flemington Rd, Elliot Ave/Flemington Rd, Boundary Rd/Racecourse Rd. Add to that trying to cross Flemington Rd from Church St, and the 59/57 trams turning through there too! Lots of no right turn/no u-turn sections, but if you miss the spot then it’s a five minute drive up the road to the next spot so I see people turn all the time anyway (particularly trying to turn right from racecourse rd to boundary rd, they’ll cross the intersection and then do a u-turn over the tram tracks). Also lots of left turn slip lanes, from racecourse rd to boundary rd even has crossing lights for pedestrians to cross the slip lane! It’s all built to quickly get people from the Eastern Freeway to Citylink, despite also trying to stop them doing that because of complaints they get about the traffic through Elliot Ave, etc. So if you’re local traffic, or pedestrian/bike rider/pt user then it’s almost impossible to get around. Particularly frustrating because it’s a major pt interchange with the Upfield line, and a bike thoroughfare. Some of the tram stops have also been moved or changed in the past, usually in the name of speeding up the trip or pedestrian safety. The trams don’t have priority at intersections though, so the trip isn’t really faster than when it was first built (despite faster trams and less stops). Pedestrian safety barriers have been put in at the tram stops, but they just mean that cars don’t have to stop when the tram stops, so people have to sprint across several lanes of traffic if their tram is about to arrive (and it’s 10-30 minutes until the next tram). The bike ride from there to Melbourne Uni is faster than anything (including driving) but it takes at least five minutes to cross the intersection to start, and the entire route is unsafe. There also aren’t any good crossings from the Capital City Trail to Flemington Rd to ride into the city. All the pedestrian crossings are on a timed loop, often only every second cycle and with really short crossing times. As a mostly able-bodied person, I still barely make it across in time. I do have sensory sensitivities, so trying to cross these roads often prevents me from leaving the house as I need to cross to once to get the train or 59 tram, and up to three times to the 57 tram or walk in Royal Park. The intersection at Elliot Ave is the worst, because there’s no protection from the sound/light/heat. Only some of crossings have TGSIs, the buttons aren’t always loud enough to hear over the road, and the footpath slopes often have issues which make them hard to use (such as the drainage design not working, so water pools in the slope instead into the street drain next to it, and the car wash next to it lets their water runoff into the gutter every day). Many only let you cross half the road before you have to wait at the crossing island for the next cycle, so I often see people walking up the concrete median strip to the tram stop. The footpaths and pt stops are always covered in rubbish, usually from 7Eleven as there’s one on two corners of those intersections, and there aren’t any bins at the tram stops. The roads are cleaned every night be street sweepers, but the footpaths and tram stops aren’t unless you put a complaint in to the council. Living next to this intersection is what got me interested in urban planning, because I wanted to figure out what went wrong over the years to cause this car-centric hellhole in the middle of Melbourne. It’s obvious the council wants to make some improvements, but they’re arterial roads so VicRoads/DOT has control. Just a couple blocks away there are some lovely, but run-down, mixed-use urban areas. There are lots of proposals to build apartment towers around this intersection because it’s close to transport, but it’s not easy to actually use that transport as a local! Some have already been built, but a friend who considered moving in told me it was so noisy that it was just infeasible. My house is completely boarded up and I can still constantly hear the traffic noise. Just because there’s a housing crisis, that doesn’t mean we need to force people to live in awful areas that don’t consider actual people because they used to be industrial zones. State Gov is also planning to knock down all the public housing around the corner, which is a real shame because it’s the only area with a real community around, even if it’s completely under-resourced. It’s not all negative though, there’s a great kebab place on Racecourse Rd, they do a tasty HSP!

The Spagooter. Right turn onto Dandy from Centre rd is a death trap. Centre/Police Rd connect the M1, Dandy rd, East Link and Westall Rd, police rd has way to many heavy-combination vehicles for road with two schools on it.

@freechagosislandjohnpilger

29 күн бұрын

that would be sand cement trucks heading into springvale, coming off the m1 near waverley gardens shopping centre, i know the 1 company very well, they have alot trucks use this route.

A couple of times I've been on Center Rd heading eastbound and accidentally ended up on the Princes Hwy heading towards Dandenong.

I live near here. Go through there most days. Once coming from Centre Rd and turning across into Princes Hwy heading east some 4WD bloke was blowing his horn because I was waiting for the oncoming traffic from Police Rd to pass.

Only suburb I really remember getting lost and frustrated was either Essendon or Strathmore. Do not remember having any issue at this Springvale Junction but do not drive through it very often. Overall the signs for Melbourne roads are fairly good and even if it a busy intersection there usually lots of signs leading up to it to have some idea how to navigate through it to get to the next destination. In comparison I literally hate the signs in Brisbane. It is like there is minimal signs to anything on their roads. If you see a sign to get off at some turn it usually occurs as you need to make the turn, rather than as you approach. So it very easy to miss so many turns off there. I hate the road planning in Queensland.

I've personally had an accident there a few years ago,, thankfully not serious. Would love a better solution, traffic is a pain, and people often speed up the service road outbound on Princes then jam in back on the main road (VIPs apparently) then fly into the set of shops on Springvale Rd so they can cut the corner.

The interchange for the Monash and Eastlink can be confusing if you don’t drive it regularly. It isn’t helped by the proximity of Police Road forcing the interchange to have extra flyovers and confusing lane structure, also not aided by the Jackson’ Road on and off ramps being crammed in nearby. Navigation apps always seem to have an aneurysm here.

Would be awesome if you could do a video, for the that old building near Springvale station. I believe it was called the emptor distillation plant. Growing up in Springvale, would always walk past this ancient building !

When i was on my P plates back in the late 90s early 00s... for me it was so confusing that i somehow could never end up where i want to be when trying to make a right turn at that junction. With the sat nav becoming better and widely available it has made this junction somewhat bearable.

@eddyhsu1978

29 күн бұрын

Especially the right hand turn from Springvale road to Princess hwy or police road... my goodness i still have ptsd approaching it...

I think building a 4 lane underpass pass for the Princes Hwy with an SPUI at the top or more spaced apart. Because if it was spaced out it would slowly add traffic in/through it or if it was all together it would have less tiny waiting parts. I hope that made sense.

@TorchIGN

Ай бұрын

Only problem with an underpass is it would greatly effect Bunnings and the supermarket precinct

I was in this intersection today and had to brake hard at give way because I nearly missed oncoming bus.I though to myself holy shi* this is a dangerous blind spot. I don't know If I should be scared of the intersection or the fact that I got this video recommended.

I'm old enough to have heard this junction described as "Spaghetti Junction" as a child and the name stuck with me, but this is the first time I've heard it from someone else in years. I've driven through this intersection pretty regularly for a while now as it's on my usual route to work, (I typically park and ride from Clayton Station) but have also had reason to both enter and leave this intersection in all directions at some time or another (though I'm sure I haven't experienced every combination of entry and exit point) Notable to my mind is that it's actually 3 separate intersections each with its own set of lights, though of course it's all co-ordinated in terms of the overall lights sequence. If there's one thing I think is most pressing to fix it's probably the approach along Police Rd. The right hand turning lane is too short, and I'd love to know who had the bright idea of having a bus route that stops in the left lane within 150 meters of the junction then have to cross a lane of already heavy traffic (during the morning peak) to said right hand turning lane within that same distance.

You mentioned it - Swan St and Punt road would have to be one of the more confusing, mostly due to a lack of signage.

The only problem I have with Springy junction is the cars that come down the service road going away from the city and then expecting to be let in. there is nothing really wrong with design (apart from for pedestrians) its the drivers that are the problem. I think the best way to fix it would be to have an elevated road for Princes Highway through traffic.

I think turning one of the roads into a bridge that goes over the others would help significantly and open up other options for fixing the intersection.

Still miss SpringVale Rd, Joe Malta

AGREE. It's a shocker . . .

Cheddar Rd in Reservoir would be a good candidate for a video. Perhaps more so before the level crossing got removed, but I still think it'll be good to look at.

@NewFalconerRecords

Ай бұрын

The level crossing removal has improved things considerably there, but you're right it was an absolute shocker. The road had a permanent scattering of windscreen glass over it.

When transport policies favour moving vehicles instead of moving people, these sort of nightmares result. And, like every other road problem, fixing an issue encourages more traffic which in turn creates future problems somewhere else.

@shraka

Ай бұрын

Needs transit to take the load so the number of lanes can be reduced.

The Eastern end of the Westgate bridge. Easy if you know where you are going and are in the correct lane before you cross the bridge. Be in the wrong lane and be ready for a detour. Even more fun, getting on the bridge from South Melbourne

@RiffRaffMama.

Ай бұрын

Wish they'd bloody decide which lanes are going to Geelong and which ones are going to Ballarat and stop swapping them around. And throw a couple of signs up that people can actually see.

@peterbumper2769

Ай бұрын

@@RiffRaffMama. I have missed the Ballarat turn-off a number of times, had to continue until the Laverton exit to do a U-turn

Ah, the old "more lanes is going to improve traffic" trick! If your definition of "busy" is wait times, Kew Junction would have to be right up there, especially when they turn _off_ the right turning arrow from Princess Sheet during the busiest times.

Thanks Philip. While this is a big intersection, I don't think it's terribly confusing. Most traffic goes straight through, only a small amount seems to turn. I've driven through it hundreds of times. The best thing they could probably do is put it on a road diet, ie, reduce the number of lanes. That will lead people to drive through it more slowly and carefully, without even needing to officially lower the speeds. That would make it nicer for cyclists and pedestrians though. And reduce the severity and frequency of vehicle collisions. However, drivers lose their minds if you even suggest taking away a lane.

It is the for decades and I use this road for 30 Years but today drivers are not paying attention making decisions ahead of time,there are lights there to regulate traffic.

The Plenty Rd Intersection at the M80 Ring Rd interchange in Bundoora was named the most dangerous crash hot spot in Australia for six consecutive years last year .

This intersection should utilise different coloured line/lane markings with road signs aligning to show you what lane to follow to go in what direction

Another one which is confusing is the mess that is Montague St where it meets Lorimer St and the West Gate Fwy

I lived in the caravan park where the back of the park was onto police rd 200mtrs back from the intersection and lived there 14yrs weekly u could here the shunting from each crash definetly the wirst intersection in Melbourne

Great video I live locally to here It needs some serious work to fix it On a side note, what is the story with all the weeds and rubbish on Melbournes Roads It seems every council has stopped maintaining them Might be a story to cover ??

A fly-over of Dandenong Road across the intersection would ease congestion I reckon. Have to deal with the grumbles of local businesses and the new apartments though.

@shraka

Ай бұрын

Why do they keep putting apartments in the most polluted parts of the city? Insane. It'd probably be better to simplify the intersection and add PT capacity to lighten the usage of the road.

@BenMitro

Ай бұрын

@@shraka They have busses... filthy diesel busses.

@shraka

Ай бұрын

@@BenMitro I barely count buses as PT. If you have a full sized bus you better be planning to put in a tram - in my opinion anyway. Trams are just so much better in every single way.

1915 when police paddocks road was built was the same year Dandenong got a water supply from the new aqua duct that came from what now is Churchill National Park. It’s a little off the trail but I found the pond that had stone work and hand made bolts.

As always, thanks for the video. My thoughts to fix it are not like typical government, so will probably never happen. But basically they are to think about every single logical path cars might want to take, and work hard to ensure it’s easy for for drivers to get it right. So good signage, clear marking, suitable speed, road surface that doesn’t pool water and reflect like a lake when it rains, stadium level lighting design, well positioned traffic lights. etc etc etc. Basically, keep working on the design until this is achieved. simulate with virtual reality, etc etc. Then, when the design it right, work out the difference between the ideal design and what’s there, and modify it as best as is possible. All too often people think good design is just something “smart people” can just do. To do it right it might take months and months, and might be expensive. But if it saves a life every 2 months!! worth it.

@WhyWouldYouDrawThat

Ай бұрын

Extra thought. Maybe airport landing style lighting may also assist. But in terms of actual design. Roundabouts, assisted with traffic lights is the best design i have seen. basically, at busy times they brake the stream. then one direction can empty itself. just have to look downstream to ensure the roundabout doesn’t get locked. AI triggered traffic lights would make sense. at low traffic times, it’s just a regular roundabout - which means zero waiting. there is nothing worse than waiting 5 mins at an empty intersection. and final note. we need to stop painting random arrows on roundabouts that change the rules. this just ruins it for everyone. plus, if a car is covering the arrow…. smash.