I think the Echo of Neltharion fight was more of a centerpiece of the raid than Sarkareth's fight, honestly. The very end of it was kind of an interesting twist. Sindragosa primed us for the idea that dead and corrupted dragon characters could exist as their past selves and interact with us through a simulacrum. That made it so when Neltharion poofed in out of nowhere after Kazzara's death, it wasn't that odd. But then not only did he purposely lead everyone as deep into Abberus as possible and try to tempt them to his side, it turned out it was just a faceless one wearing Neltharion's face and messing with Wrathion and Sabellian. It made it pretty clear what Neltharion's true legacy was: deceit, corruption and destruction. There was never any reason to go into Abberus, but the whispers tempted everyone inside, thinking there was a great prize waiting for them.

@Kylora2112

Жыл бұрын

The real quest was the corruption we succumbed to along the way!

@Simplemalk

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think it would have been better served to have Sark as the second to last boss. We the defeat him alongside Nelth and then have the "heel turn." Sark's boss fight and death just felt anti‐climatic. Really hoping the Mythic phase has something interesting. I think they wanted to drive home that The Whispers were still manipulating him up until the very end. They could have accomplished that by having a Mythic phase wear Syb and Wrathian were partly controlled and started breathing fire on you or something like that.

@zacharyseiders5793

Жыл бұрын

The Echo did feel more like the central villain of the raid. But Sark still fills the role for the finale due to one thing. Wrathion and Sabellian had to learn the lesson that nothing good is going to come out of following Neltharion’s trail. They spotted the red flags, Sarkareth refused to even acknowledge them. The Dracthyr kept digging deeper only to find what amounts to a dead end and a threat that we had to stop.

@antolimpenha5976

Жыл бұрын

You're right. Its funny that i think Iridikron and his kin knew what lies was living down there by Neltharion's handnotes that they decifred. And they did that just to make everyone lose time and power pursuing lies and a small echo of a fallen old god who was hauting that place so they could work without being chase by the heroes. TBH Iridikron is the first dude in WoW that take the hero and his allies seriously.

@zacharyseiders5793

Жыл бұрын

@@antolimpenha5976 I think the only other is Guldan. Who got beaten by us prior to Legion.

Wrathion is getting a taste of his own medicine from his time "judging" the Alliance and Horde back in Pandaria.

Bit of miscommunication on when this was supposed to go live, but HERE WE ARE! Diving deep into Aberrus and uncover the secrets of Neltharion.

I think this raid is more a conclusion to Sarkereth’s arc than the conclusion of the patch’s story itself. Which is something which won’t land with people if they didn’t do the 10.0.7 and 10.1 campaign quests.

@zacharyseiders5793

Жыл бұрын

For the Dracthyr, those players ought to know everything they need to know about Sarkereth. Echo of Neltharion is the big villain of the raid and the presence for the quest line building up to the raid. Sark is the final boss for that part of the Dracthyr’s story arc.

I'm surprised you didn't mention that the Echo of Neltharion was actually a N'raqi like how in Ny'alotha Wrathion was.

Fun fact: While Wrathion refers to himself as a son of Neltharion, he is actually he's grandson, cuz his mother, Nyxondra, was another daughter of Neltharion. This also means that Sabellian is actually his uncle, not his brother.

@tri1937

Жыл бұрын

@@steel4o it’s less neltharion being horrible and more just, how dragons be. but it’s been confirmed the only black dragon to survive breeding with neltharion (meant death wing) is sinestra, and sinestra is not wrathion’s mom

@moonshadowsong

Жыл бұрын

@@tri1937 we did killed his mother in Badland , I don't know if quest still exist, but he was last survive agg

@AssassinGTM

Жыл бұрын

​@Tri she's the only one to survive mating with him AFTER he became batshit crazy Deathwing. They make a point to specify that so there's actually nothing stopping Nyxondra from having mated with him considering how long dragon eggs just sit there

@bunnyrabi

Жыл бұрын

​@@AssassinGTM I'm not sure about him mating with his offspring, however yes exactly , the survival thing was only after he became crazed. Before he was crazed he probably had many mates

@Lupinemancer87

Жыл бұрын

@@bunnyrabi As far as we know, each Aspect had four consorts, so it's possible Neltharion did too although we are never told of any besides Sintharia. However, since Sintharia is only said to be the mother of Onyxia and Nefarian, that means Sabellian and Nyxondra, and possibly Ebyssian if he is indeed another son of Deathwing, would have another mother. Nyxondra, ofc, is the mother of Wration, with his father labeled as unknown.

this is actually a pretty cool lore and follow up to neltharion's legacy, glad to see dragonflight lore keeps getting better

I loved Sarkareth's last words delivery by his voice actor. I know some people were disappointed by the cutscene but I like its simplicity.

@antolimpenha5976

Жыл бұрын

For me was a good one. Wasnt a true end for Sarkaret pursuit for power.

Dude you're not kidding about the art team. This place looks incredible

There is one thing I'm wondering: What happened first: Neltharion falling to the voiced of the old gods "for the first time" during the primalist war on the forbitten isle, leading to the stasis of the Drakthyr? Or the construction and void-research in Aberrus? If the forbidden Isle came first, that would mean that while Emberthal and we player-characters slept, many of our brothers and sisters were taken out of stasis and experimented upon. If Aberrus came first, then what made Neltharion that great goodhearted friend of Malygos had been long gone even before he finally tasted the void for the first time. He would've become a monster even if the old gods didn't whisper in his ears.

@SuperGamefreak18

Жыл бұрын

part of me thinks that Neltharion was always a sociopath and because how he acted around his equals made Malygos think he was a goodhearted individual, when in reality he knew how to act in front of people, with him becoming deathwing fully was him shedding the last of the fake neltharion shell that he showed everyone.

@SuperGamefreak18

Жыл бұрын

@@cursemark77 hm that would make sense honestly and that echo was made after he started to fall, like before he fully used the void and solidified his fall.

@Jacobstx

Жыл бұрын

That 'Echo' is a faceless. You can see it after it's demise. So take whatever it says with a *massive* heap of salt. What we can be certain of is the experiments physically within Aberrus, but don't trust a word the thing says.

@SuperGamefreak18

Жыл бұрын

@@Jacobstx they bend and twist truths to their benefit so it was probably mostly half-truths

@blackmark2899

Жыл бұрын

From what we see of him before his corruption, Neltharion was always a terrible person, he just acted like a good person in front of his peers and kin. A control freak, a sociopath, and with very little morals. The Old Gods simply convinced him to let go of what little morals he had.

When the Roleplay between the Echo of Neltharion and Wrathion before the experiments started, I made a comment that made my guild laugh. Playing as an Evoker, I said; "Daddy just called me a failure."

As someone who needed to take a 6 month break from the game, coming back has been overwhelming and this video was amazing to catch up on the lore behind the raid I missed. Thank you!!

Thats definitly not Neltharion, you can see his corpse turn into a Faceless one 19:59

@archdruidbookwalter951

Жыл бұрын

That's crazy, I assumed it was a simulacrum like Sindragosa in the Azure Span.

@GioFan201051

Жыл бұрын

@@trollkiller8695 No, it was not. As Azum pointed out, it was an Old God minion posing as Neltharion

@MortisTangit

Жыл бұрын

This is actually a fairly important point, curious why it wasn't pointed it in the video

@Domdrok

Жыл бұрын

Important info I missed.

Nefarian was the son that this Neltharion echo wanted

I may have listened, but the most important thing was missed. There was no Echo of Neltharion, it was an ordinary faceless

Thanks for the video! 👍

Appreciate the shout-out Nobbel. Always a pleasure, see you next tier!

1:05 "They will have to pursue this without me" * several expansions ago in Neltharion's Lair * Ebyssians: Sorry champions, I must leave you now. *DO SOMETHING, DANGIT.*

Been looking forward to this video, it's hard to notice what happens in the raid while doing it ahah :D

A Flame, Extinguished sounds more like Fyrakk. I guess we will find out next week

@Khanmanlol

Жыл бұрын

It could also mean the Sundered *Flame.*

@GioFan201051

Жыл бұрын

I'm with Khan. Fyrakk's assaults are a big event right now. Would be weird to "extinguish" him now already

I love these videos because while on day one i try to listen to the lore and battle speeches i am constantly drowned out by the voice chat talking over. Like i didnt realize Wrathion and Sabellion "split up" at the beginning😅

@Heron11177

Жыл бұрын

I find it a bit hard to pay attention to the lore while playing Of course, if it is your 4th or 5th run in that raid and you are now almost facerolling the whole run then you can concentrate on the lore Most of what I've learned from the lore of the game was soloing old raids or watching videos like these Sadly, learning about the lore is time consuming and time means gold, xp, gear...

Truth be told, Ebonhorn is the only black dragon I would actually trust. And he is the only one that actually acts like an aspect, with his focus being more on solving issues, helping other black dragons and helping the dracthyr. While I can enjoy the bickering and banter between Wrathion and Sabellian on a simple fun/funny side of things, his interactions I enjoy much more due to his character and his goals - especially with Emberthal.

@Heron11177

Жыл бұрын

I would just be careful not to fully trust him because a good deceiver doesn't let those traits surface It would be "out of character", but Ebonhorn could be one of the classic long game betrayers, gaining our trust literary playing as a good person

@Rakshiir

Жыл бұрын

@@Heron11177 That is a very valid point. The other two main players for aspect right now have several red flags already, he is the one that seems the best. But it is true that you can't be sure 100% - especially since you don't know if they intend to have him a pure dragon, only for someone later on to redcon it more or less. I just personally hope that he will keep this character and be a new beginning for the black dragonflight, that would be more interesting than having another betrayer and corrupted black dragon yet again

@Heron11177

Жыл бұрын

@@Rakshiir I too prefer the new beginning for the black dragonflight, but it would be some 4D Chess from Ebonhorn to be empowered as an Aspect and then do like Deathwing. Of course he would need to be smarter and literally wait some centuries, for his dragonflight to regain their power and prestige, and for him to be able to face the other aspects and the players I hope Ebyssian is a fresh start, but everyone should be prepared even for some absurd scenario like this one

I bet Iridikron already knew about Aberrus' gonna turn out nothing and left it for Sarkareth.

@GioFan201051

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's the vibe I got too

I was hoping that with all the flashbacks and literal time travel going on in this Xpack we'd get to see glimpses of Neltharion as the Dragon Aspect his siblings respected and relied upon for assistance. Even if the Old God influence was always in the background he would never have been able to pull off the betrayal he did if he was not, at some point, a being worth trusting.

Deathwing’s Legacy was never the Black Dragonflight. He treated them as his possessions, not as his family.

There's a stone mural in Sarkareth's boss room (or in the corridor before) that depicts Neltharion with this armour plating, pretty much how he appeared during the Cataclysm. Is this a continuity error? He didn't have either of his plating designs prior to leaving the Dragon Isles did he?

Thank you for this video, I am sure a lot of people who couldnt raid in the first 2 days, appreciate the idea you had to lead them through the raid.

The interesting part is that this raid-boss last villan and what he sed before his death servs as a perfect warning for the future leaders NOT to follow in Neltharions footsteps. I cant help but wonder if nzoth planed that to? How far do Nzoths plans extend?

I mean.. Using a Djaridin as a battery doesn't seem too bad. Surprised Sebellian was opposed to it. .. Or maybe I've been playing too mush Rim World

@zacharyseiders5793

Жыл бұрын

Or Sebellian has seen enough of his older brother’s shit to know how screwed up that can really get.

Oh I was looking for this

The fully corrupted sarkareth looks so fucking sick

10:25 "this all seems...questionable. How malleable is your plan?" "MMMM MMM MM"

what I got from this is that Neltharion has always been a mad scientist/sociopath, and the void just made him worse

Nobbel still says "Drageflights" :D

Seems like a lot of Old God powers getting thrown around for N'Zoth being "destroyed."

This is not only a great lore video, but it's also better than many strategy guides on Aberrus (that are 75% self-promotion and 20% useless tips like "tell the healers to fill you up here")

Interesting how both raids in wow and ffxiv took on the subject of escapism and share same settings with experiments of former antagonist

There could still be special cutscene in the mythic fight.

I wish I could keep playing this game! Everytime I log in, I look at the rep grind and dont want to play anymore.

We have Iridikron and Galakrond for the Mechadungeon. So let’s wait for a cinematic at the end of that.

Neltharion's voice actor sounds like the same one who voiced N'zoth. Not sure if it's true but it would be very fitting.

The way is open now

Me imagino que habrá una cinemática de neltharion con Wrathion y Sabellian. 🤔

@GioFan201051

Жыл бұрын

No lo parece la verdad, a lo mejor la semana que viene. Molaría, eso seguro

If you look closer when sarkareth is dying, I belive you can see shape of a dragon face with one bright red eye.

it is unknown if there are also shadowair shadowearth and shadowwater as types of magic created from combinations of air earth water and void magics just like shadowflame since shadowflame is a type of magic created from combinations of fire and void magics.

@Widdershyn

Жыл бұрын

Kinda curious in that line though, if Shadowflame is a type of magic from a combo of Fire and Void... why do so many Demonology Warlock spells deal Shadowflame damage? Hand of Guldan, Shadowbolt, etc

@DemonMaluMintus

Жыл бұрын

​@@Widdershyn because warlocks also use shadow magic so do demons

@Widdershyn

Жыл бұрын

@@DemonMaluMintus I mean I'm not saying they don't, the reason I'm bringing it up is because Warlocks are typically associated with Fel, as are demons. Yes they USE shadow magic, it's just interesting to me. The ones we associate with Fel so much are also using it, and here it is being touted a whole bunch as being very void aligned... and there's very little acknowledgement in-game of the fact that, say, my demo warlock is casting mostly shadowflame spells next to a pair of dragons anxious about Shadowflame. Not even a warlock NPC with a throwaway line you only get if you go to talk to them. You can, of course, notice it if you mouse over spells and read the tooltip to see what kind of damage it's dealing, but so far I haven't seen any in-game acknowledgement of it.

@DemonMaluMintus

Жыл бұрын

@@Widdershyn Sadly there won't be :/ blizz do not pay that much attention to immersion I am afraid

Wish sarkareth and the sundered flame had more to them than just being "corrupted." But when you throw words like "it was mine" or "the sundered flame are mine to do with as I please." That's usually blizzard speak for they're not going to elaborate much on this character so don't look into it anymore than what's on the surface.

"Share the crushing weight of space with his embrace of nothingness"... lol. Out raid leader calls out "Run out and die" and if we can immune it, we do.

even without seeing the faceless corpse there are clearly undertones that the "Echo of Neltharion" has nothing to do with him, but that it is an old god/void entity posing as him

you sooooo know when emberthaw and ebyysian left they not finding more dragons THERE MAKIN THEMMM OOHHHHHH

final chapter could be a M+ Fight

Is there anything explaining the end boss room, why it's so consumed by the void. Why is there broken chains similar to what we see with the Old Gods? Is it a weak point in the veil between reality and the Void?

did anyone see the guy that fall from the chains ? 🤣

I hope for once that we get to fight a boss that realizes how dangerous we looters are, instead of underestimating us. :D

i mean the shade of naltharian literally said always the cleaver one wrathion, obviously meaning this person knows him, i feel like n'zoth in some way is still around.

According to Bellular that was not the Echo of Neltharion, but a Faceless One posing as him. Also Wrathion is not Neltharion's son.

@BSHoce

Жыл бұрын

pretty obvious how it is trying to make Wrathion take shadowflame and be corrupted.

what about neltharion's pre corruption dragon form in flashback only.

@patrikzotaj4528

Жыл бұрын

yeah we will see his pre corruption dragon form in flashback only.

Aberrus, the plotline to rival the Veil from destiny 2.

when you enter Aberrus, the first thing Sarkareth says is "We (the sundered flame), will never be subjugated again". Wich is funny when you consider that the filthy hypocrite just hours ago attempted to subjugate all Dracthyrs using the Oathbinder, he even has an aditional line for dracthyr characters when the glove fails to subdue you where he says "If you won't submit, then you will die!"

The Old Gods’ whispers only offer half truths and false promises, such promises only leads individuals to madness and death.

Fun Fact Neltharion creating shadowflame is a plot hole. Warlock spell Hand of Gul'Dan deals shadowflame dmg so unless Neltharion shared shadowflames with demons and Warlocks I don't see how he created it.

"a millenia" x.x

Hey Nobbel at @6:03 you actually accidentally cut two lines together. Neltharion in the first one says "You are of my blood, the fact that you survived is proof enough of that" then the other line begins about the shadowflame. :)

@Nobbel87

Жыл бұрын

Nah thats not my editing, thats how the rp played out ingame

@TheRockingChar

Жыл бұрын

@@Nobbel87 ah thought I'd let you know anyway wasn't sure if you were aware x

20 bucks says emberthal becomes the next aspect of the black dragonflight

Has anyone tried to use the Eye of Nzoth toy on their head in this raid?

Speaking of timegating, it's funny that with the new raid release schedule, they still insist on having a TWO- week gap between the LFR wings. I understand releasing all wings at once was problematic in the past, but wouldn't a ONE- week gap be enough to learn the mechanics? It feels like they keep dragging the release of these wings out just to troll us LFR raiders.

Why is the video unlisted?

Anyone else Christopher Judge should have been Neltharion’s VA?

While i like the general consensus i find it silly to say: all of deathwings creations mustt be put away Shadowflame can be quite useful djardin use it without goinf mad so do warlocks.

"for millenia" and not for "A millenia". Millenia is plurial for millenium Which mean he was there for more than 2000 years.

what about lich king arthas or ner'zhul or bolvar will lich king arthas or ner'zhul or bolvar will wield both death and shadow/void powers.

@arbenzotaj8342

Жыл бұрын

yeah while arthas as death knight champion of the scourge and ner'zhul and now lich king of the scourge will use both death and void shadow powers and powers of the old gods through frostmourne and helm of domination.

@arbenzotaj8342

Жыл бұрын

does frostmourne and helm of domination have both death maw domination and shadow/void magics.

Is Sabelion cleansed or should he go for scanning to MOTHER?

So is natherion alive or no cause he talking to his two sons in raid

@Nobbel87

Жыл бұрын

Nah that's just an echo/faceless one, real neltharion was killed by us during cata

Huh, why is this unlisted?

Man the way you say Shadowed is like "shithold"

goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

-“What are you?” “I am the whisper in the dark” -dead body is a faceless one There is definitely some old god nonsense going on here

Why no mention of the shade of neltharion actually being a void dude? Honestly the whole reason I kept watching and then nothing. Sadge

Won't lie, after playing throught the Zaralek Cavern's storyline, im starting to think that Ebyssian will become the Aspect of the Black Dragonflight. He really seems to be wisest and wants to create his own path away from the legacy and influence of Neltharion, while Sabellian and Wrathion are always bickering at eachother about who gets to inherit daddy's riches and title.

For as long as Bobi Kotick is still in blizzard I’m not going purchase any game out of that company!

teen edge lord and adul incel fight each other over daddy issues

So the last boss is literally just a big dracthyr? How far we have fallen

Sabellian will die before the end. It is written in the sky. Wrathion will be the leader of the black dragon flight.

@fnb5599

Жыл бұрын

Nah clearly setting up ebonhorn to take reins

@joshputzke5400

Жыл бұрын

and the dragonflight loading screen

@GioFan201051

Жыл бұрын

Ebyssian for sure

I hate Neltharions new armor so much, he looks goofy as hell.

"Story"..😂

I think the idea of "Oh im so bad I do evil thiongs blah blah blah" then they either get killed or transformed and "Oh Im so good, I was just inside of the evil side trapped there and couldnt get out" just got so damn boring... Arthas, Grommash, Sylvannas, Uther and now Deathwing? ugh... they need better ideas, new brilliant minds to make up a good story.

Tis truly such a shame that they decided to go with using a faceless one being the one that took on the image of Neltharion. What if who we actually discovered was the REAL Neltharion and the one we killed was an old god concotion and in the end we ended up saving him from his prison? That would have been far more cool than Sarkareth. Such a cop out of a raid and story!

i thought deathwings armour was made by goblins, this expansion is full of dumb retcons... like shadowflame corrupting deathwing?????? i thought it was nzoth

@zacharyseiders5793

Жыл бұрын

It was established in the raid that the elementium plating we saw in the raid was but a prototype before Neltharian went to those goblins. And then he got his butt kicked and don that elementium anyways. Also I think the shadow flame was what N’zoth used to enhance the whispers. We never got told the details prior.

idk why are you explaining the mechanis of each fight lol.. i thought this is a story telling video not a raid guide.

@Nobbel87

Жыл бұрын

I do both as it gives me more time to show bits of the fight!

@Breaker242

Жыл бұрын

for a couple cases the mechanics are tied in with the lore or are at least loosely based on in-universe elements

Sarkareth is barely an elite mob too bad they made him a final Raid boss such a waste

Im gonna be brutally honest, im dissapointed to see that the new raids last boss is nothing more than dracthyr. Like come on man its a last boss atleast it should of been something idk not a playable characters base model.

It's 2023 and characters are still interrupting their own dialogue by speaking the next line before they finish their current one. What a polished game

Talk about disappointment, all the content creators singing df praises, I don’t see it, story feels too strung along and not cool enough. Writing so far is wicked weak

Neltharion as human is stupid in a Dragon Game.. he should transform.. but no thats another waisted boss