this is probably the single greatest cover ever

@johnhawkins_twa

Ай бұрын

whole heartedly agree.

@TheNetsrac

Ай бұрын

It is indeed

@Whoozerdaddy

Ай бұрын

Gotta disagree. As amazing as that is, it doesn't beat out the Righteous Brothers' (Bobby Hatfield's, really) live performance of _Unchained Melody,_ from The Andy Williams Show. And yes, although it became one of their standards, it *is* a cover.

@ThePrincepiggy

Ай бұрын

Respectfully, there’s so many great cover songs out there. All Along The Watchtower by Jimi Hendrix is a cover. So is Talking Heads Take Me To The River (Al Green originally), Elvis Costello’s Peace,Love and Understanding (Nick Lowe), Cyndi Lauper’s Girls Just Want To Have Fun (Robert Hazard) and Soft Cell’s Tainted Love (Gloria Jones). So is Johnny Cash doing NIN Hurt but I think that is more of an impactful video than a cover song. This is an excellent version of a great song but the original was so incredibly popular that I don’t elevate this one as highly.

@user-mv4be1tc2u

Ай бұрын

@@ThePrincepiggy well, Paul Simon has said this is the way this song should be, saying it was better than the original.

Simon and Garfunkel wrote this song at a time when the tv was taking over the home. People no longer talked at the dinner table, they watched tv while they ate and the tv was becoming the electronic baby sitter. They were warning us not to ignore each other. Disturbed is the reality we have today. People talking without speaking...they text. Hearing without listening...they read what others write on their phones. No one wants to disturb the sound of silence by actually interacting with another person. And the neon god we made? The Smart phone. A whole generation has lost the art of being social with each other and that is the fulfillment of Simon and Garfunkel's warning and the rage for this loss is Disturb's version.

@sunshynff

Ай бұрын

Simon and Garfunkel didn't write this, Paul Simon did, on his own, and later played it for Art, and it wasn't a warning, the first line of the song came from when he used to practice in the bathroom to get some alone time. He would turn off the lights and turn faucet on, and the tiles had a nice echo, one day he simply started strumming and said, "Hello darkness my old friend", then he wrote the rest over the next several days. He said...."The rest of the lyrics were basically things I heard in English Lit class in college, that I hoped sounded dark and and full of teen angst, that would impress the ladies".

@Alycanj

20 күн бұрын

such is how it all has already ended, I feel sad for people with kids left in the remains.

@sunshynff

19 күн бұрын

@@Alycanj 😂😂😂😂

@williamschwartz9283

12 күн бұрын

update: ... the words of the profits are written on the Facebook walls and Instagram calls...

@Bane2Face

5 күн бұрын

AMEN!!!!!!!

One of the most incredible covers of all time. David's voice is amazing 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻 Now you need to do the live version from the Conan O'Brien show 👌🏻 The people on the shore were holding the written music while the boat had the musical instruments

@gsquat

Ай бұрын

It's not as impressive without auto tune.

@sunshynff

Ай бұрын

@@gsquat ..It's used on the Conan version too

"And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon God they'd made!" I always watch the eyes on that line. Surprise! Weren't expecting that, were you? Whoa, indeed.

The original by Simon and Garfunkel is the warning that something bad is about to happen. This is the angry version because the warning was ignored. The version by Pentatonix, which is just as outstanding, gives hope for the future. This is what happens when you have absolute genius songwriting.

@shannonmcvey8669

Ай бұрын

The Pentatonix version is actually a cover of this version.

@sunshynff

Ай бұрын

The original is something written by a young 20 something Paul Simon, which in his own words... "the lyrics were basically things I heard in English Lit class in college, that I hoped sounded dark and and full of teen angst, that would impress the ladies". It wasn't a "warning" as much as it was an audible cologne in hopes he'd get laid...lol.

@joeturner1181

Ай бұрын

@@sunshynff Whelp, he failed miserably, then, because what we hear has a lot more depth 😆. I don't think he's the first artist to discover that what people got from his art was more than he expected or intended. Thanks for the insight, it's interesting.

@sunshynff

Ай бұрын

@@joeturner1181 .....Oh I totally agree, I'm not trying to take away what the song means to people, I think most music is made to be interpreted, at least to some extent, by the listener. I should add, the reason Paul even mentioned that in the interview, which was from the mid 2000s I believe, in Rolling Stone magazine, was because they were discussing all the theories surrounding the meaning of the lyrics, and Paul had been tight lipped about it up til that point. He followed up his admission with the fact that he absolutely loved that people take whatever meaning from it that fits how they see the world, and that people still were discussing the song period, so many years later, made him feel like he did his job as a songwriter, despite what part of his brain he pulled the lyrics from.

Your facial reaction changed from 'interesting' to 'WOW!!!' Great reaction to a fantastic cover song!

Greatest cover of the fabulous ‘60s song that Paul Simon wrote and originally performed/recorded by Simin & Garfunkel.

Probably the greatest cover of this brilliant Simon and Garfunkel song. As far as covers go, one that is right up there with it is Johnny Cash's cover of 'Hurt', which is well worth a review! :)

I've always felt like that last scene was symbolically the 'dead instruments' being returned to the land of the 'living music' across the river Stix. Great reaction

Great reaction! The original song was by Simon and Garfunkel back in the 60s. I always thought is was a pretty good song but never really paid much attention to the lyrics. This cover by disturbed forced me to listen to and try to process the meaning of the words. It is an really great cover of a classic song.

When David opens his eyes on " Vision " , he looks straight into your soul. A masterpiece. 💕

@TheNetsrac

Ай бұрын

Yes

It's amazing how talented people can sing one and the same song and deliver complete different messages. The original by Simon & Garfunkel was a folk song that admonished people to be aware of a changing society and the possible dangers. Disturbed's version took it backwards. Showing what had gone wrong and being angry about it because the warning was out there. To complete the circle I strongly recommend you listen to Pentatonix's rendition as well. Totally different mood and message. This is one of a very few cases where a cover can stand up to the original and even excels. An equally outstanding example is Johnny Cash's rendition of "Hurt" from Nine Inch Nails.

I love how engaged you are and react to your comments. Props!

@SwiftReactions

Ай бұрын

Cheers kind sir. There are some wonderful and kind people who have joined and I enjoy interacting. Plus this channel is all about the requests so I like to show my appreciation when people taken the time to comment. 🍻

I loved your reaction!

Yes, check out the live version too

David's voice is amazing. He was trained as a Cantor, so classically. He can do it all.

@sunshynff

12 күн бұрын

True, but it's a shame they had to use pitch correction, aka autotune, on his voice in this track and at the Conan performance.

@philliplynx7877

6 күн бұрын

@@sunshynff PROOF? ... I heard him live, unplugged and a capella. There is no need of autotune to his voice. He himself is a autotune machine allone with his body.

@sunshynff

6 күн бұрын

@@philliplynx7877 ... Yeah yeah I know, trust me, I was right with ya until about a year or so ago, and there's no doubt David Draiman is a fantastic singer, but you asked for proof... I used to be in a couple bands and then worked as an assistant sound engineer for a while, so I'm not just talking out my rear end. I've followed the channel in this link, and the guy knows his stuff, and I'm familiar with the technology and equipment he's using and it's very accurate. I warn you though, he analyzes a lot of artist out there, don't click the link unless your ready to be disappointed in other singers you thought would never use pitch correction AKA auto tune. If the link won't work because KZread, just go to Wings of Pegusus channel. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qZWOtbuMgseYiKg.htmlsi=adRHhRB8pA451bLB

@sunshynff

6 күн бұрын

@@philliplynx7877 ... I know I know, how could that be right?? I'm not crapping on David Draiman, he's an amazing singer, he's actually classically trained, I'm also not talking out of my rear end either, before finding my calling as a firefighter, I was in several bands and worked as an assistant sound engineer. That's not my proof either, but that is the reason I stumbled on a channel called Wings of Pegasus, this British guy that sort of does music reactions, but he breaks them down from a sound engineering perspective. He really knows his stuff, and sometimes he does a specific voice analysis of an artist, and uses a voice spectrograph thing that I've used and seen used before, and they're very accurate. This channel here won't let me leave a link, but just go to "Wings of Pegasus" page and look for the David Draiman voice analysis. WARNING!! He covers lots of artist, and if you don't want to be disappointed that possibly some of your favorite artists are using pitch correction, don't visit his channel..lol. Take care.

@sunshynff

5 күн бұрын

​@@philliplynx7877 ...Well this is the third time your comment has showed up in my notifications, and will be the third time I replied, the last two have seem to disappeared. Cliff notes version:...... I used to be in a couple bands, and worked part time as an assistant sound engineer, there is a channel I follow called "Wings of Pegasus", guy is a pro, really knows his stuff. He also has equipment that analyzes vocal tracks extremely accurately. Just go to the channel and search for David Draiman vocal analysis. WARNING though, he analyzes lots of artist, I quit watching his vocal videos, too many artists I loved were using pitch correction aka autotune, it broke my heart...lol.

Try the live version with guest appearance from Miles Kennedy of Alter Bridge (another great singer of a fantastic hard rock band). The duet really is something special.

So glad you used this video without the boxes on the screen at the end. The symbolism of the musicians and people writing songs coming together is important.

I believe his range is F2 through A4, which demonstrates remarkably throughout. Notice the subtle vibratto on the last word of each verse. He's amazing

I’m really glad you watched this version, the live performance just doesn’t have the same impact without the visuals which I think are as integral to the experience of this song as the vocals and the music itself!

What I haven't seen in these comments is the type of person David is. He once stopped a concert dead in its track because he saw an 8-10 year old girl being afraid during an intense part of the show. He went right up to her and comforted her and told her it was only a show, than brought her up on stage for the entire crowd to cheer her on. You can watch the clip here on youtube.

@dwarf365

Ай бұрын

search "Disturbed stops show to comfort scared girl"

@SwiftReactions

Ай бұрын

Thanks for the info. That was really interesting. Cheers

I see this more as a post-apocalyptic setting with a touch of Mad Max. They gather up the instruments after some unspecified disaster, load them on their ship and return them (or deliver them?) to the people. Yes I watched it cold sober - lol.

@module79l28

Ай бұрын

I see the video as a manifest against the state the music industry is currently in, with music made without real instruments or real musicians and without real songwriting.

@fugawiaus

Ай бұрын

The instruments are silent without the music and the music is silent without instruments. The end brings them together. The lyrics of Sound of Silence are much deeper.

@jamesbondbond8388

Ай бұрын

@@fugawiaus Yes , Paul Simon is a genius

The song is about how the City had changed since the Invention of TV. Paul Simon grew up when the streets used to be full of People reacting to each other then when TV came Out, Everybody Turned into Strangers who would not React Anymore.

@sunshynff

Ай бұрын

What?? Where did you hear that??

no way the best cover version,just the best song ever.

@williamdunphe-bh2pu

18 күн бұрын

Well said I agree wild bill it has it all

Now Down with the Sickness by the same band

@patricklyons79

Ай бұрын

You might want to give a bit of context about the rant. But yes, definitely the next song from Disturbed

I heard the original years ago by Simon and Garfunkel. It was good, I enjoyed it. However, when I saw this version (and this video), I remember getting goosebumps and being moved to tears. It hit me different. Maybe it was my music upbringing. My mother was a professional singer, I grew up in recording studios. I played concert piano as an older child. Something in this speaks to me on a level different than the original - and make no mistake, Simon & Garfunkel were very good and well known. If you've ever heard the song "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" - that's them also. This is a re-imagining of the original in tone. Simon & Garfunkel were folk genre and the song was meant as describing the breakdown or failure of people to communicate in their grief - the song was written shortly after John F. Kennedy was assassinated. Still, Paul Simon said he liked the version by Disturbed because it conveys much of the same feeling overall. It doesn't have to be grief. It could be depression, or other failures to communicate. In a modern world full of media we can use to communicate, we often fail to do so. Somehow, Disturbed seems to strike a chord this way.

My favorite rendition of this song. David Draimans voice is fantastic!

Listen to the Danish National Symphony Orchestra. Playing "the good the bad and the ugly"

I still cry every time I hear this version. Thanks David

You’re going on a journey that leaves you speechless.

This is one of Disturbed's greatest songs hands down. Here are a few more suggestions to show you what David Draimen is capable of. Fair warning one of the songs I am going to suggest is dark. It is based on events David dealt with personally. (Inside the fire) This is the song. The other songs are great because of the message they tell. The Light, Don't Tell Me, Divisive.

This cover gets me in the gut every single time. Corvyx also covered this and I have to say it's superb, worth a look and also his cover of My Heart Will go On. He's pretty awesome.

Love the new vibe he gives it.

This is a really great cover. Corvyx is also doing tha same cover, and its absolutely 💯. He is also doing a cover of My heart will go on, and its mind blowing. And he is a good example of never judge a book by its cover 😊

Check them out on the Conan show singing live this song. It affected me, and I discovered they were appearing in Edinburgh the following evening - bonus.

It's hard for anyone to truly appreciate this version of this song without listening to the original version done in the 70's by Simon and Garfunkel.

You should explore more of their music. Style aside, his voice is powerful

Definitely one of the best covers ever. It would be great if you would also check out Geoff Castellucci's version. Very different but just as good, IMHO. Geoff is the bass singer for the Acapella group VoicePlay. So prepare yourself for the smoothest, lowest bass singer you've ever heard. He also does all the background harmonies with his 5 Octave range. You have to hear it to believe it.

The ship is taking the instruments to the people with the music - to end the silence.

That's how you get a billion views on KZread. Your reaction was like a lot of us. Pure awe. I would suggest Bridge Over Troubled Water by So Hyang's cover from Immortal songs.

Great, so good!

They did a live version on Conan and it’s even better live. Must watch reaction

I love Simon and Garfunkel sing this and this cover is right up there , brilliant

I have seen this video many times. Actually had just finished watching it and your video was next in the queue. Instead of watching the video, I just watched you (which was easy to do) to see your reaction. Your expressions showed how powerful this cover is. I could tell you honestly haven't seen this video before or you are a great actress. 🙂

@SwiftReactions

16 күн бұрын

Lol. Yeah, I am DEFINITELY NOT an actress. I did enjoy this one though. Incredible song, incredible voice. Amazing.

Loved your reaction. Appreciate it. Thanks. I had stopped listening/paying attention to music for twenty or thirty years or so. I grew up in the 1970's. I caught this performance being reacted to on YT, a few years ago, and it got my attention. Then Oliver Anthony, then Ren. I found your channel when you reacted to Ren's I Shot the Sheriff. Loved the chance to re-watch Disturb's Sound of Silence. Thanks again.

@SwiftReactions

Ай бұрын

Thanks Duke.

Excellent reaction this is the best cover of this song ever many people try but none can compare to disturbed,later girl.❤️😎🇺🇸

On the Dutch tv show "Beste Zangers" (Best Singers) Henk Poort performed his take on this version of "The Souond of Silence" and I honestly can't decide which one I like better Henk Poort singing Disturb's "Sound of Silence" or Disturbed performing it If you haven't checked it out already, you definitely should

Awesome... Fact: This version was constantly played in the Midwest when it debuted. Sadly, it became an instant classic to comprehend the PANDEMIC!!!

You appeared to be reacting to the lyrics ("Silence like a cancer grows."), almost as much as to the performance. You mentioned you never heard Disturbed. I very curious, have you ever heard "Sound of Silence"?

I found your channel today and subscribed to it today and I love disturbed version of sounds of silence.

@SwiftReactions

Күн бұрын

Thanks John. 👋

@johnjwedrall4290

Күн бұрын

@@SwiftReactions you are very welcome 😊

The ark for musical instruments!

Awe inspiring song…thank you for the heartfelt reaction. Keep’em coming!!

Haunting?? Disturbed!!

Really listen to the words then u will totally understand this rendition!!

This is a great cover of a Simon and Garfunkel classic, but suggest you have a look at the Bad Wolves cover of Delores O’Riordan’s ZOMBIE. You will cry

amazing, perfectly controlled voice! one of the few covers, totally superior to the original.

Behind every worrier is a beatiful women saying go get them.human truth

U said wow on the first syllable. Incredible

Another song derived from an old hymn (very old - centuries) is performed by Epica ft. Floor Jansen is "Stabat Mater Dolorosa" (really Simone Simons and Floor backed by the orchestra - non metal). You should hear it. Yes it's in Latin, but you can still feel it. The grief conveyed is palpable.

David's voice is magical! Band and video are killer as well!

absolutely brilliant. It's about mental illness and sends shivers down my spine every time I hear it.

amazing , fun fact the one that he perfomace on the Conan show , he had a flu and he said hekept drinkin water and honey the whole day , and that perfomace live was even prettier , u should check it out ,

The culture of life in death on their way to Valhalla wild bill only one of 100 interpretations of this song he is one of the best living in this time i would go see them even for this one song wild bill

I don't know if you know Phil Collins/Genesis, but Disturbed's version of 'Land of Confusion' is also amazing.

Even Simon and Garfunkel original, the point of it's how loud silence can be

Great reaction... definitely need to react to the live version on Conan show its amazing 😊

good song

You should try *The Warning* - 3 sisters who David Draiman (lead singer of Disturbed) said gave him hope for the future of rock music. They are headlining a European tour now and will be in Japan for at least 3 shows. Try their new 'Automatic Sun' or 'Evolve' from their 2023 MTV VMA performance.

@dark.cheshire.1065

Ай бұрын

Seconded. Trust me. This is one rabbit hole you won't regret falling into. 🤘

@SwiftReactions

Ай бұрын

I have done a reaction to Evolve. The copyright is holding it up but it should be available in the next fortnight.

@TimberWolf762

Ай бұрын

@@SwiftReactions Ah, excellent! Be prepared to have The Warning Army flood it!

You really should check out the live version

Your facial expressions mirrored my own. Thanks for sharing.

Now for the other side of this talented man listen to Disturbed "Get down with the sickness".

This is NOT their Norm. They often do Covers, and they are great. Oh, by the way, their Norm, DISTUBED is a HEAVY METAL Band. If you are interested to hear their Norm, listen to DISTURBED, Down with the Sickness. That is their Norm. Great Post.

Listen to this song with Disturbed AND Myles Kennedy.....just when you think it can't get any better.... :)

Great reaction. But would recommend and watch disturbed live at conan. Greetings from Norway. 😀

It is surprising because he’s the lead singer with the heavy metal band Disturbed. And he was really sick when singing this. But please NOT OMG but omgosh. God bless.

It's not just the video. You must hear the lyrics!!!

@tteray007

25 күн бұрын

And you must know the original and where and why it was made!

If you liked this song, you would definitely like the live version from 2016: kzread.info/dash/bejne/dJ9rtLiwY6yelco.html And an early live version of the original, performed by Simon & Garfunkel (there are lots of live versions to choose from!): kzread.info/dash/bejne/o6Jks6SRfby-o7A.html

I love this version I know original is original... but still. a good one thanks...

💯

🔥

Historical Recording

try the conan live version he was sick on the night as well

Soooo please listen to his live version on Conan obrian orchestra and all Will REALLY PUT A WOW IN YOUR HEART

I like the side by side format...green screen is impersonal...just my opinion...great reaction...

@SwiftReactions

Ай бұрын

Green screen?

My first time at you site. Good reaction. I would like you to try more types of music. Maybe oldies, country, rock etc. Not so much of the "kids" from the past 20 years. Just my 2 cents, I'll check back with you. Arizona, USA

@randymarple9830

Ай бұрын

Tom, you must try a band called THE WARNING, three sisters from Mexico, reviving ROCK&ROLL. I think you will be pleasantly surprised! I was!!!

This is a great cover. I hope you check out Falling in Reverse Last Resort cover.

Please check out PENTATONIX "Hallelujah" & "Mary did you know". Best a cappella group ever. You'll become a penta holic.

Many out there, donnot grasp, that certain very heavy bamds are acxualy very moral.based, almost christian based,,, they are heavy and talk about dark subjects, but Disturbed, Metallica, slayer, ministry, and many others are accialy very much based on morals and the conflicts of society

Interesting choice and a very authentic reaction (as usual). David Draiman has an absolutely crazy vocal range and this seems to be a more dystopian future with the black and white, the broken objects/instruments and the land looking like a truly lost place. Some people say that Simon & Garfunkel wrote this song as a warning about the path humanity was headed towards - but that Disturbed (the way they performed it) followed it up with the anger that comes with not heeding their very serious warning. 💥🔥❓ That's what I love most about the rumors surrounding this song - that that absolutely was the purpose for remaking it and nothing else. We'll just never really know - all up to interpretation I guess. I'm actually torn on this song. It just leaves me with mixed emotions. You're going to get a ton of this, but people are going to hound you that you should have reacted to the live version that they played on Conan O'Brien. It's probably ranked as one of the greatest live performances of all-time. But whatever, you work with what you have to work with - and you go from there. 🤷‍♂️😘

@SwiftReactions

Ай бұрын

Cheers kind sir. I appreciate your thoughtful comments as always. I actually wish I had done the live version but this film clip was really good and I may just do the live version one day if I get enough requests for it. 🍻

@MrBojangles110

Ай бұрын

@@SwiftReactions You know what - be the trendsetter. EVERYBODY has reacted to the live version of this song, so maybe think of this as a journey you hopped on and you just wanted to see the studio version first. 🤷‍♂️ I don't blame you one bit when you simply wanted context of a cover you never heard - so you actually went to the right place first and saw the video that they really wanted to be so instrumental in the message - and the truly great job they did on it. With all of these other requests coming in, you'll have a while before you'll have a chance to react to the live version and I think seeing it second will actually be a benefit for some perspective, and by that time people will have forgotten & you'll have a ton of reactions under your belt already. 💡 😝

@sunshynff

Ай бұрын

@@MrBojangles110 ....Why, this is a far superior version of the song, the aesthetics and message of the video are wonderfully done, and she obviously appreciated them greatly. Plus, if a singer is going to use pitch correction I prefer it be done in post, on a studio version, not live on the Conan show.

Try watching the video without sound. Then listen only, then together again! Truly scary in its epicness!

best version is live on conan show

You remind me so much of someone.....You wouldn't happened to be a Virgo would you??? Sorry, just found myself watching you more so than the music video..... Excellent reaction video.

@SwiftReactions

5 күн бұрын

Lol. Nope not a Virgo! 😆

@pisces-helpingothers6888

4 күн бұрын

Hello Swift (non-virgo KZread friend). Can I suggest a song for your reaction? I found this songs lyrics, brilliant, vocals brilliant, story telling, exceptional. But the song extremely challenging. Excellent song.....just emotionally challenging. Hardy - wait in the truck. 😊

I see people gathering instruments... they cannot play, having no music. The ship is at the end of their journey to the people who have written the music - but have no instruments. A great time to make new friends...and music...

The live version on Conan O'Brien is the best

Better than the Original ,and i dont say that very often.

God: David, would you like to sing like an angel or a demon? David: Yes.

The doom to which Simon & Garfunkel referred was the interpersonal estrangement from too much television (neon gods of in my generation). The Disturbed version is angrier that under social media the problem has gotten really bad, and the current generation is not paying attention to the threat.

@sunshynff

Ай бұрын

Paul wrote the original on his own, and it was to impress the ladies, nothing more, nothing less.

Down with the sickness ... that will give you a good idea of "Disturbed".

I always get George Orwell vibes listening to this song: Animal Farm & 1984. Dystopian shit. Ray Bradbury and F451 (interestingly, 451 degrees F is the temperature required to burn paper, which is exactly the point of the book). Almost a modern Biblical adaptation. Paul Simon must have been smoking the best fucking weed on the entire planet when he wrote this. How else can we explain this song? It was a masterpiece when S&G did it, and it's a masterpiece the way Disturbed & David did it. People often say S&G's version was a warning to our parents, and Disturbed's version shows us the consequences that our parents damned us into.

@sunshynff

Ай бұрын

He was actually stone sober, the first line of the song came from when he used to practice in the bathroom to get some alone time. He would turn off the lights and turn the faucet on, and the tiles had a nice echo, one day he simply started strumming and said, "Hello darkness my old friend", then he wrote the rest over the next several days. He said...."The rest of the lyrics were basically things I heard in English Lit class in college, that I hoped sounded dark and and full of teen angst, that would impress the ladies". After he polished it a little playing at some coffee houses, he went to Art's apartment and played for him in the kitchen and Art immediately said they needed to record it.

Hi sntbll. The live version of this song is even better imo (Conan), but i want to tell you about Diana Ankudinova. She does a cover from Elvis Presley (Can't help falling in love)Get it from her own youtube channel and be blown away by her

@SwiftReactions

Ай бұрын

Thanks Louis. I have done a reaction to that one. It should be available soon.

@louisminten7889

Ай бұрын

@@SwiftReactions I'm curious what you think about her voice

@SwiftReactions

Ай бұрын

Ahh, you will have to watch and see...