The Beginner's Guide is my favorite walking simulator.

@tord4336

4 жыл бұрын

lol

@wollsmoth69

4 жыл бұрын

@@tord4336 Something funny?

@kevdmiller

3 жыл бұрын

The Beginner's Guide was brilliant.

I thought I hate these sorts of games until I randomly checked out Edith Finch. What an incredible 90 min experience that was.

I agree with your assessment on Edith Finch. People love to say "If you can't lose, why not a movie then?" I think this game answers that question better than any other walking sim, and thoroughly owns its right to be interactive. You just can't get the same experience watching it. Just the game mechanics alone on the fish cannery sequence with Lewis are a masterpiece. I can't think of a game mechanic that gives you a better look into someone's mental state than that. I describe art as "something that bridges the distance between our thick skulls", and I think the scene does that *profoundly* well.

I think Firewatch had a good story, and it was intended to go the way went. **Spoliers** The player is meant to believe there is some kind of grand conspiracy, and through playing they discover the truth. It's a portrayal of how a persons mind can wander into weird territory if they're stuck doing the same thing day in, day out and they want a bit more excitement in their life imo.

I've played quite a few of these games and we seem to share similar feelings throughout. I distinctly remember trying to to immerse in the vanishing of Ethan Carter but getting stuck on a puzzle and wandering around trying to figure it out. I also managed to have a nice time with Everyone's gone to the rapture and it's story but now that I think back on it it had little to do with what I was witnessing and more to do with the voice acting and score. Like listening to a really good audio drama that happened to have visual elements for...some reason.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the voice acting was good. Genuine accents as well, which as a Brit living in California, is always nice to hear.

I'm pretty sure Molly couldn't of fallen to her death because she wrote about the whole experience. She almost definitely died from eating the Holly berries, and the fluorine filled toothpaste. Otherwise the point of this video is a really strong analysis of why some walking games are better than others.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+Phonic Canine Yeah that seems likely. Pretty sure I'm wrong about the fall. I was wondering whether she wrote the story as a kind of fantasy or lucid dream and then acted it out but that doesn't really fit. Simplist explanation is probably the correct one.

Try playing them in VR with Vorpx in cinematic mode. It brings walking simulators to a whole other (beautiful) level. Edith Finch looked exquisite in 3D as did rapture.

I like Firewatch best! its one of my favourite games as it had me on the edge of my seat and my heart in its grip for most of its runtime. also the amount of details you notice in this game is very much dependant on you as a player and how much attention you pay and how thoroughly you explore. its on of the few games, where people make long conspiracy theory videos about and I actually like watching them. also unlike many others, its incredibly interesting to watch multiple playthroughs from different people, because everyones different and has Henry as a very different character in mind. and some people really take to Delilah while others distrust her quickly, its very interesting and entertaining.

@kevdmiller

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Firewatch was really special. One of my favorite games of all time. I don't agree with the negativity towards the ending. It just refused to give the player what they wanted...but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If they had given that, I think it would have contradicted the message...that Henry needed to stop avoiding real life and face it.

Death Stranding, the best walking simulator of all time.

so the less gamey a walking simulator is the better the story has to be to make up for it. Seems obvious right lol I've been interested in making a walking simulator myself, it'd probably be the closest to stanley parable. I'll need a really catchy premise.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

The Stanley Parable is such a clever premise. I don't envy you trying to create something like that. Good luck!

I really REALLY liked this video. It is by far my favorite thing you have done (although that is partially due to me not being super into most of the games you have reviewed previously). I would love to see more videos like this where you explore genres and how stories are told, its really interesting.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks Drew! That's good to hear as my next video will likely be all about stories in video games. Well, one video game in particular. Analysis videos take more time and it can be hard to go from one to the other without a break.

@Drewe223

7 жыл бұрын

I think it would be really cool if you did a video (or a series) on storytelling in games where you compare and contrast different games, showing the good and the bad. Due to storytelling being so subjective not many people really try to discuss or analyze it in depth but I think you could fill that niche well. I am just spitballing of course, I just really love long form video essay things like this and I dont think there is enough good content on storytelling/narrative in games.

So the only thing that differentiates a walking sim from a first-person adventure game is the puzzles? I find games like The Witness, Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Myst, Obduction, The Talos Principle etc. far better than all walking sims but they are essentially the same type of game. All of these adventure games (with the exception of The Witness) have interesting stories that is revealed through its gameplay. I just finished Edith Finch and I thought it was great but I wouldn't rank it higher than the other titles I just listed...although Edith Finch kind-of had some small puzzle elements to it. I think 'What Remains of Edith Finch' straddles the line between walking sim and adventure game and is very similar to 'Vanishing of Ethan Carter' (even the titles of the games are freakishly similar). However, Vanishing of Ethan Carter had more puzzles (many were optional too) and I was more engaged in that story. I think that Edith Finch and Ethan Carter are what narrative-driven games should aim for. Give the player something interesting to do while they experience the story. Make it something that can't have just as easily been a book or movie. Be it through puzzles, or making choices ala Life is Strange (which I was far more emotionally invested in than Edith Finch).

The very first walking simulator I ever played was Dear Esther. I got it for like 2 bucks on a Steam sale and played it for about an hour. I don't think I even finished it. At first I thought it was a puzzle game like the Myst games and maybe that preconception ruined it for me because I was easily distracted away from it and never went back. Then I played The Stanley Parable over and over and over again. And Edith Finch was so good I bought several copies for my friends so we could all play it and talk about it. Again, it's hard this to quantify why games like Finch and Parable stuck with me and Esther didn't. It could be pure subjectivity. Could be my expectations. Or, as you say, the latter two are just better at what they do.

@kevdmiller

3 жыл бұрын

I liked Dear Esther...once I pushed through to the end, but it showed me exactly where my line is regarding minimum interactiveness. I was really enjoying several walking sims and not minding--actually loving--the lack of action, but then I played that game and realized just how little was *too little* interaction for me. I just feel that roaming around listening to narration isn't engaging enough to draw me in. I want SOMETHING to actually do...even if it's minimal. Edith Finch, on the other hand, is IMO a gold standard for showing how interactivity can intensify the resonance...even without a way to lose. It feels like you are "unwrapping" the story as it unfolds. Thoroughly engaging in a unique way.

My ranking of "walking sims": [[[DIAMOND TIER]]] 1) Outer Wilds (okay, this isn't technically a walking sim, but I've seen people describe it as "a walking sim done right", so...) 2) What Remains of Edith Finch (still the gold standard of 'traditional walking sims', and I doubt it will be beaten) [[GOLD TIER]] 3) Journey 4) ABZU 5) Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons (again, like ABZU and Outer Wilds, not traditional, but it has all the requirements of being one) 6) The Forgotten City [[SILVER TIER]] 7) Firewatch 8) Jazzpunk 9) Tacoma 10) SOMA 11) Gone Home [BRONZE TIER] 12) Everybody's Gone To The Rapture 13) Proteus 14) The Beginner's Guide 15) Layers of Fear 16) The Vanishing of Ethan Carter 17) Dr Langeskov, the Tiger, and the Terribly Cursed Emerald [BROWN TIER] 18) Virginia 19) Dear Esther 20) Thirty Flights of Loving

It's interesting because I feel this genre as a whole was mainly created as an experimentation ground for developers to see how they can mix the interactive elements of games with a linear story for the lowest budget possible. I do think you are correct though in your assumption that the most successful 'walking simulators' are the ones that make you feel like the character you're playing. The interesting thing about games is that you can elevate the story you are trying to tell in dizzying heights just by having the player feel like they are in the moment the story is taking place. MGS 3, 4, and 5 have some of the best sequences I have ever played in any game simply because of this, with MGS 4 having the most moments where I felt like this was happening (although that's mainly due to the sheer amount of story sequences being thrown at you, not the overall quality of the game). I feel this genre as a whole is hiding a golden key somewhere inside of it that developers just need to use to change the way narrative structures in games are handled altogether. Because for however much I like a good story based game, most of them I can never shake the feeling that I would probably have preferred to just watch or read the story elsewhere rather than sit and slog through modern design trends just to get to the next story beat.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I imagine developers are desperately hunting for that "golden key" you mentioned because I expect they lose a lot of money to people watching streams of the game instead of buying it. They need to find a way to make the gameplay important enough that people need the controller in their hand, without sacrificing what they're trying to accomplish. I think Edith Finch and Stanley Parable come close to this but even then you need to play them before you realize that so it kind of defeats the point. Still, I like the genre and it's interesting to see it push forward.

+Chris Davis how did INFRA not appear here? You play as Mark, a finnish structural analysist working in the town of stalburg. It seems like a normal day on the job, but after finding some shocking stuff, you realise that's not true. Stalburg is a town on the brink of collapse, it's overrun by hippies, most structures are dangerously unstable, and there's more and more hints at a secret cult of sorts, the story of Stalburg and why it's in this state has to be pieced together by loose bits of information you get around the game. I definitely reccomend playing it without any spoilers. (I might've ruined that kek)

your views on walking simulators actually made me think heavily about a game that i personally considered a walking simulator than its normally defined genre as "survival horror" and that game is SOMA. if you havent played this game, i highly recommend it as it is one of the best experiences ive had with a video game. despite these high remarks, i cant help but apply your analysis to that game's core fundamentals. you bring up some very good points about limited player interactivity and the feeling evoked from the experience. i hope you get a chance to review and analyze SOMA as i would love to hear your thoughts and hopefully hear how your experience can compare to walking simulators and traditional survival horror games.

This was interesting to understand a genre I've never really cared for.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Excellent stuff, man, we got another great video essay guy on KZread! You're goin places bro

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much!

I honestly don't see how it's was ever a question if these types of games, count as games. I mean just look at point and click or text based games

Walking simulator games are my favorites. I like exploration games a lot, exploring new places in the world, engaging in the narratives, etc. What Remains of Edith Finch remains one of my favorites if I be very honest. I hated the game because of its disturbing content and almost gonna give up before I gave it a second try. I was glad I did cause I fell in love with the game. And yes, I felt an impact after knowing Lewis's fate, it was my favorite arc. Since then I have played games like: - The Suicide of Rachel Foster - Firewatch - Dear Esther - Painscreek Killings (almost in the end) - The Town of Light (started playing) Gone Home and The Vanishing of Ethan Carter are on my list. Any suggestion for games like these is welcomed.

I would really like to know why you thought Firewatch was as "bad" as you belive. I found no video on that game and as it was easily in the Top 5 games of 2016 --, and in my opinion better than Vanishing of Ethan Carter and Gone Home -- I would love to hear another opinion.

I really enjoyed "Rapture" I was completely engaged all the way through. The only part I liked about Edith Finch was the Lewis chapter. I believe these games are completely subjective, you will either engage or you won't its individual.

Found you yesterday, glad I did.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Thumbs up! I like to walk in video games!

If you like What Remains of Edith Finch, you might also like The Unfinished Swan. :)

I'm surprised you didn't have more to say about Firewatch. Of these games it seems to be the bud of a new branch of walking-sims that you could might call a "walking/relationship-sim". While the narrative is linear, and yes, many were disappointed by the ending, it's brilliance lies in letting the player choose how Henry (who you play as) responds to Delilah in the ever-flowing conversation, thus shaping Henry into a much more relatable character while still delivering all the story beats needed to move the narrative. Thoughts?

A thing I love about these games that few people seem to point out or agree with is the feeling of digging around through the most intimate and banal pieces of a person's history. Like finding an old box full of photos, letters, memorabilia, ect. in a late friend's closet. Something that adds a lot of authenticity to the lives your exploring is the simple stuff. I enjoyed Gone Home quite a bit more than Edith Finch because so many of the objects/props/readables are unique and filled with personality. While WRoEF has tons of stuff littered all over the place and just as many unique objects, it also recycles a massive number of props throughout the house, and unique items feel relatively surface-level by the game attempting to encompass so many characters. It just doesn't have the time or space to develop any of them to as meaningful an extent. It's the same reason I like exploring antique shops and yard/estate sales. It's a "slice-of-life" sort of thing, which is maybe what the genre should be called. I call them exploration games, narrative games, or narrative exploration games because--unlike "walking simulator"--those terms actually describe something about the game/genre, and do so without demeaning it.

What remains of edith finch really made it hard not to cry lol the baby level and the fish level were hard to take in as i can relate to the fish guy and i cant relate to the baby but i felt so bad for the parents such a good game on the emotional side

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the baby level is more about the mother who walks away from the bathtub just before everything goes wrong. It's heartwrenching to know what she'll come back to after finishing with the phone call.

@wordsshackles441

6 жыл бұрын

You're a giant ugly mangina :)

For me, what remains of edith finch stands out from all other walking simulators because the gameplay is varied and entertaining, and the story is better than any of the other games on this list.

I have 2 problems with walking simulators: 1) Watching someone playing and playing for yourself gives you almost the same experience. Instead of having the controller in my hand and holding one button for several hours, i can watch someone playing it and thats free. 2) In a lot of games, too much of the story is put in notes. When i go into a walking sim i expect to have visual experience presented to me, not to read a story.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+White Shadows I agree with both of those for some walking simulators. Without repeating too much of what I said in the video, I believe the good walking simulators do more than that.

@CustomGamesStudios

6 жыл бұрын

Chris Davis I watched What Remains of Edith Finch and I feel like I experienced all I needed to while also not spending a dime. This genre needs to give people more reason to buy instead of watch

@thesebi10

6 жыл бұрын

Ike Andrews As much as I agree with the original statement, I thing that a strong argument againts this is the Cannery level. The gameplay of having to do a mind numingly repetitive task with one hand and going on an imaginary adventure with the other is something unique. It creats a tension in the players mind and provide them with the feeling of walking the balance between a daydream and a reality. This is something you can't translate to a video, the gameplay makes it work.

@fluffy6923

6 жыл бұрын

For the reason number 2, I feel that it's more appropriate to call Gone Home, a reading simulator.

@jamiefernekees5041

6 жыл бұрын

Gone Home doesn't belong on a list of much better walking simulators. Also, you say you have nothing against Breath of the wild yet you constantly insult it when you wanted too which had nothing to do with the actual topic of this video. Never bring up a game that isn't a walking sim on a game video on walking sims, that's the only flaws with this video. Now kindly go on with your day.

Everybody's gone to the Rapture was the most relaxing game I"ve ever played and that was enough for me to enjoy the experience a lot.

I know I'm several years late to this, but still: Journey and Abzu. I never got to play Journey because it was a PS exclusive, but I did get to play Abzu, which was made by the same people and is a spiritual sequel (Journey is set in a desert, Abzu is in the ocean).

please keep up the long discussion/critique videos!

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+blueplanetproject77 Will do. Videos like this are just little side projects. They aren't intended to replace longer content. I just needed a break from banging my head against Nioh bosses!

If I remember correctly, Joseph Anderson did talk about this topic recently. The Game he focused on is Little Nightmares. I am honest, I am one these people who would deduct points for lacking gameplay/interaction. I just get bored with these kind of games, but now I get why people like them. It is quiete obvious in retrospect. Like always great video btw.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, if I remember correctly, he compared Little Nightmares to Inside and tried to reconcile why he liked one and not the other. I've not watched it in full yet as I haven't played Little Nightmares and intend to. I didn't think Inside was that great either, so I'm curious to see if I come to a similar conclusion.

what you missed is the historical chronology of the game, dear easter is one of the first and successor made improvement with finch being the last. people were lenient because there was nothing similar to compare and dev build on lesson of previous attempt, thus the ranking following almost the historical order of release. the genre simply evolved through time.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Hi. Sorry, but I have to largely disagree with this. The order isn't close to being chronological. The top game is the newest and the bottom game is the oldest, but that's about it. Gone Home and The Stanley Parable were both released soon after Dear Esther and are much better. Virginia is a 2016 game and was released two years after Ethan Carter but is not as good. Rapture is barely an improvement on Dear Esther at all, despite the three-year gap in release date. The developers learned nothing from Dear Esther because they did the same thing again, albeit in a nicer setting. I don't see proof of the genre evolving just yet, although I certainly hope it is. However, Edith Finch is the only game to be better than Gone Home and the Stanely Parable in the 4 years since those games came out. You say that people were overly lenient to Dear Esther because it was new, but how does that explain the leniency to Rapture which was released after far superior games?

@NeoShameMan

7 жыл бұрын

To be fair I'm not commenting on the quality of the game, but I reacted to a statement I have now forgotten lol. But disclaimer, I'm a game designer, so I have a slightly different perspective on this. Actually stanley parable is the oldest one, it was released as a half life mod and was trash by player and ignored by critics. The 2012 version is a remake profiting of the cultural revolution happening in the game industry, the indie movement. Dear easter is more of a commercial manifesto, it was a bunch of artist who slam the door and heavily promoted a new way to do video games, using indie cred and a growing dissatisfaction with a concept that was popular back then, ludo narrative dissonance, stanley parable was re released because of the cultural success of dear easter. This term was coined in 2007 by Clint Hocking while working on farcry 2, the same year a experimental game, passage by Jason Rohrer, was released. At the same time in the industry everyone were focusing on a new technique: environmental storytelling. Meanwhile, 2 outsider artist, with zero familiarity with anything in the industry or culture of video game, but inspired by the possibility of the format, started releasing game with a completely new perspective on how to design game, their game were clunky, as they were made with little technical or design literacy, but had a huge impact on designer and developer, tale of tales. The released their first game in 2005, the endless forest, which was rediscovered when they released one of the most influential walking simulator, the graveyard, in 2008, which is a direct influence for uncharted 2's Tibetan village sequence. Their follow up, the path, largely put down the mechanical and philosophical underpinning of commercial walking sims. In 2010 another very influential game was released, Amnesia the dark descent, dissatisfied with how the player engage in their previous game with the presence of weapon, Penumbra, Frictional games removed any mean of attacking, the player could only move around. The dev were actively monitoring and participating to the early radical discussion around game spur by the indie movement. After teh release of that game, another game took the idea and streamline it with the slender man, which also inspired the game outlast. The same year, an environmental artist worked on a critically acclaim dlc for bioshock, minerva's den, later it would be inspired by early discussion around dear Easter to move away from the industry and work on his own take, gone home. While not directly in the same genre, Dontnod, creator of Remember me, would get inspired by the same philosophy to make a life is strange, inspired by almost cut segment in remember me in which you temper with npc's memory. This is was I would call the first wave of walking sims, the experimenter, trying to find footing and structure in the genre. The entire purpose of the early creation was to verify and promote two points, telling story that escape ludo narrative dissonance and the trapping of tired game tropes that tend to move story away from personal story, it was also a reaction to inflating budget that also pushed games forward blockbuster safe and simple epic story, while also carving a market for more mature consumer. So if we look structurally, the genre evolve on two things, adventure game's gating mechanics and environment design, they build directly from what the industry has learnt by first having a minimalism approach, ie remove what was seen as unnecessary, ie pointless out of place and repetitive gameplay, to build on the strength of other aspects, namely the environment. Adventure game had a problem with puzzle as a gating mechanics, as the genre grew, the puzzle were more and more abstract relative to the plot, it's because the perspective was mechanics matter and everything else was dressing, which lead to the demise of the genre and dismissal of story altogether for a very long time (famous Carmack quote about story and porn here). As game become more sophisticate and complex, there is a need to convey more stuff in gameplay and avoiding cinematics, environmental design took hold on that, with bioshock emerging as a champion of the time. As some critics grew up, there was a growing dissatisfaction with pointless gameplay, but were engross by the growing sophistication of peripheral aspects of games, like the audiologs in bioshock. In some way the early reception of dear easter is just that, a validation of that desire to see aspects of video games enjoyed without the contrivance, dear easter is text book environment design, personal story and audiolog. Anything that resemble gameplay mechanics we completely avoided because those elements HAD to stand on their own first. Similarly, the outsider, tale of tales, just made games without stuff they legit didn't get why they would be here and thought were weird, basically seeing the king as naked, their game reflects that, but also do things nobody in the industry would have thought because being indoctrinate into mechanics lead perspective, which is why so many people felt they refreshing, it gave them the eureka that gave them permission to ruthlessly cut things they have been at odd for time but couldn't found a form to express. But as the first wave impose itself as a viable alternative, people from the industry got in seriously and use their literacy of video games to move forward, gone home is much better than dear Easter because the author of dear easter are straight out of schools, gone home designer had a full industry experience and was able to move the template much further, introducing minor innovation that do make a difference like the put back mechanics. As time pass all outsider were phased out for people with actual literacy deconstructing and building on their weakness. In that context, the firewatch is an expression of all lesson learned but with increased interaction with the scenery and Virginia move the storytelling from the game space devoid of gameplay elements to presence of full bodied npc with ellipse of time, tightening the pace by removing the continuity of space that plagued the follow up from the creator of dear easter, everyone go to rapture, but then it was building on an older game called thirty flights of Loving by Blend games in 2012. Stanley parable is an exception because it's a challenge from valve's writer to each other. It's the final result of a series of iteration on a basic idea, can we make humor in game? They iterated to each other, criticizing each other sample, until someone run with all the idea in the final products. His follow up The beginner's guide is maybe one of the more sophisticated in the genre so far. But I would also like to introduce another small game made by an outsider, a kid, it's call Morphine, store.steampowered.com/app/410430/Morphine/ It's clunky as hell, it's made out of asset flip, yet it has gone beyond, in structure, than other game by talented developer. Literate developer go by incremental iteration, generally because they overthink everything, so they test hypothesis one by one, first they removed gameplay to let environment design, then they introduce slowly and carefully new mechanics, that's why we started with empty space and audiolog, then inspection mechanics, then introduction of full body character, then breaking space and time continuity,etc ... That's where my comment came from, they historically are very incremental of each others. Edith Finch really feels like the current culmination of that process, it's gone home but with more transition, more scene, more interaction, more log. It's also why they still fall into trapping like overusing formula, like moving away from scify or fantastic but still using YA (young adult literature) as a new structural backbone (life in strange, gone home) but they have a mechanical perspective and seek out mechanical structure, the author have a safe cold distance that instrumentalize the narrative, it's more the intellectual idea of a personal story (for example adolescent as an opposition of epic space soldier), than a real one, because it's something they can study and research, it's safe. Game made by outside are much more organic, and also more clunky, because they set out to say personal things, all tale of tales game are out of there subjects (relative to nerd culture), sunset in particular or fatale, but also much more promising and rich to whom see through (ie literate designer or critics like me) and they have a punch literate product can't have like the game that dragon cancer. If you can't play morphine, look at a video walkthrough. You will see how it jump around around structurally and slowly build its point and its use of metaphore and character, it's still a kid production but really it does more than any walking sim I know for the personal story angle, with the touch of a professional this could shne. ... *HOLY SHIT I WROTE AN ESSAY*

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Wow, this is incredibly helpful. Thanks so much. I can definitely see where your original comment was coming from now! I actually have a friend who recommended Stanley Parable to me back when it was a mod but I ignored him. I always take his recommendations on board now! A few people mentioned The Path and Amnesia after this video, so I picked them up in the Steam sale. I'll pick Morphine up as well seeing as it's only $0.92! Dear Esther being inspired by Bioshock makes a lot of sense. However, for me, the audiologs in Bioshock only work because of the ending. I'm not a huge fan of audiologs generally, which probably goes some way to explain why I don't like Dear Esther! One game I'm really interested in is Takoma, the new game from the developers of Gone Home. It takes place in space so it avoids some of those young adult themes you pointed out. It's coming out in August I think. Anyway, thanks for the insider knowledge. I would never have been able to put all the pieces together like that. I appreciate it.

@NeoShameMan

7 жыл бұрын

Lol I was afraid my rambling would be too much and I was afraid to scare you away lol Well here is some more smaller less focus rambling lol (this statement was added after the facts lol) Tacoma is nerd reverting to being nerd, so it's in space because nerd ... like me lol. But they also have Nina Freeman who made a lot of interesting small game ... Yeah audiolog is dated now but open the path to smarter bark and banter in other games it co evolve with, I don't mind audiolog if we stop making them physical object and start using them as voice over with a purpose. lol Also *I want to abolish "walking"*, even in normal game, it's something we picked up from old game and never move away from it because it became to define "traditional video games" but not all walking are environmental or mechanical moment, they are just a slow selection of interaction (most of the time) we can't accelerate, so many game with pointless and meaningless traversal *cough *cough* mass effect Andromeda ... And on top of that it's actually the major source of error and cost, modern AAA games must have like 3000 animations (no joke) just for walking and have these perfect blending and environment awareness (did you notice how lara remove water in her pony tails, when you get out a dive, in the reboot sequel?), and all the player see is a stiff puppet getting stuck on the complex decor and getting lost in the level design that was pointlessly a aimless maze *cough *cough* mass effect Andromeda. Also those blending system are full blown Artificial intelligence more complex than any enemy in game, that's why the stiff walking never trip onto itself when crossing legs, look for motion matching in for honor and be afraid. What if we had a format with interaction to interaction moment? It will have better pacing and narrative impact. Each interaction being it's own little "mode". It's not a radical idea, game already do this to an extent, for example dialog is generally it's own mode (action are recontextualize for the mode) and stay in relation with other mode (continuity of state), in JRPG battle are isolate in their own mode, and being inside a town or the field, while being similar in traversal, have different scope and affordances for actions. I just want to generalize that modal perspective into an aesthetics language, like movie have cuts and editing instead of single shot like theater, but all shot would have to be interactively rich and non linear to each other. Isolation of system would also help make game with ambitious narrative goal be richer and less risky. Fnaf is a simple game but is composed that way and it is very effective. I'm making a game like this now but it's a trainwreck, I don't know if it will be any good, not because of that idea, I just may have not picked the right content, but the content is the reason I'm making the game I can't change it. I just hope once I finish it I can build on the foundation laid down. Of course that's not for all game, positioning is important in some gameplay, but even that we could isolate it in its own mode, takedown is already that but without any interactivity, add minimal interactivity and its qte anyway. A game like BOTW work on being self directed and open, hence traversal is its own puzzle, but that's too much for some people lol, I see people complaining by all sort of things they consider gating, cough cough rain, but I'm 150 h in, never upgrade (everthing one shot me, increasing my improvisation awareness), naked only, and no rain ever stopped me ever, every mountain is climbable with basic stamina and no food! Playing that game like other game (cough cough Horizon) will only bore people, the game became super dense once you start to get it and use the combination of system, but it's a game made for people like me who always try to break all rules and goes off the beaten path and test the limits, the game say fuck progression and made a strong case for it. But I like no man's sky too, who knows (I have been waiting that exact game for 30 damn years) ... Now mix botw, skyrim and no man's sky and I don't need any other game ever, *cough cough* I may or may not work occasionally on such foolish side project. I should stop rambling lol

I delayed watching this until I had a chance to play Edith Finch. Really good video and I agree with you -- immersing the player into the role/experience of the characters is so important. I laughed when you said that some of the other games are interactive in the same way turning the pages of a book is interactive...good stuff and accurate. Given that so many walking sims are on the market now, and so many have already been reviewed in that comfortable 7-8 range, how do gaming websites proceed? It almost feels as though they need to acknowledge in some way that they were not properly "calibrated" to these kinds of games when they reviewed them previously. But who would ever do that? I think we'll probably see the 7-8 range of scores continue. That some of the major gaming websites gave Edith Finch and Virginia similar scores is somewhat strange to me considering how much more powerful Finch seemed. And to your point, if somebody plays Virginia and it doesn't resonate, they probably won't try Finch when they see similar scores.

While I haven't played all of these, I would put Vanishing of Ethan Carter first because of it's puzzles. I love solving puzzles in games and playing as a detective is fitting as you solve the murders to further the plot. However, does that mean that Vanishing of Ethan Carter shouldn't be classified as a 'Walking Simulator'? The game is incredibly beautiful, possibly even the most realistic looking game graphically. It kind of straddles the line between Walking Simulator and First Person Puzzler which is why I favour it more than the others. Speaking of which, I would like you to do a similar comparison but between First Person Puzzle games like Portal, Portal 2, Myst, Obduction, The Talos Principle, The Witness, Quern and Antichamber. How they differ in their approach to merging narrative with puzzles. I think these type of games are unique to other forms of media. A book or film can't really include problem-solving from the reader/viewer's end as they could just keep reading/watching and the 'puzzles' solve themselves.

You can see the effort that was put into this amazing video. For a new channel you quality is amazing. Keep. Up the good work

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much!

How much interaction is TOO MUCH interaction for a walking simulator? How is a game like Gone Home or Virginia not a puzzle-solving/point and click?

You REALLY made me curious about Edith Finch, I like how it intersects the imaginary with the reality of the characters, I will play this game as soon as I can. Meanwhile, here's my recommended walking simulator: Among the Sleep. I won't say more about it, just get a quick impression by watching a trailer or maybe review. And an honorable mention, if not a must play: The Path. This game is a classic, inspired by the Red Riding Hood theme, features a group of 6 (?) sisters of all ages, and it was heralded as quite original in terms of story delivery when it was released. Still, it may not have that much of a following, but it does have somewhat of a cult status. These are the two I would suggest you try. Non of them is too demanding, but I don't know what specs your laptop has.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Among the Sleep is on sale, so it's been added to the cart. Thanks for the recommendation. Glad I got you interested in Edith Finch. It's tough to wholeheartedly recommend a 2 hour game for $20, because everyone values that kind of experience differently. If you ever see it for $10, it's an absolute must buy.

Can you recommend channel's for people who like your content.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Loads. Joseph Anderson, Mister Caption, Noah Caldwell-Gervais, Matthewmatosis, Novacanoo, Mark Brown, Mr King, Turbo Button, The Gaming Brit Show, Errant Signal, Game Array, and SuperBunnyHop. There's probably more, but that's off the top of my head.

I will admit that Dear Esther has a very large amount of problems that were covered in this video, but it still remains my favorite purely on the emotion that I got from it. I felt the cerebral, slow, beautiful journey had great pacing and led up to an amazing climax, while leaving a lot of questions to consider about the nature of the character, the island and how they relate to the narrative. Firewatch felt like an indie film, while Dear Esther felt more like a poem.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I love your description of Dear Esther as a poem. That sounds, well, poetic!

@theowittkovskiy961

7 жыл бұрын

This is, what they touch on in the developer commentary. Words were chosen not because they mean something, but based on how they sound together. The title "Dear Esther" is only one of many examples in the game. In this way it manages to touch people emotionally in a way, they can't put into words. This is a very clever way to go about things and completely aligns whit what the game is trying to achieve. Games in this genre should be rated mostly on how well they execute on their vision. If the game is trying to be two things or even more at once, then it should be criticized for it. Then almost all the games on your list would be rated similarly, which makes, since they are roughly of the same caliber.

@johnwerner6445

6 жыл бұрын

Thian Benton-Fieulaine I remember the first time I played dear esther. I did not understand it but it was soothing in ways that was so relaxing. Gone home on the other hand was garbage all the way. Looking at the metacritic scores I cant believe it scored higher than the vanishing of ethan carter or firewatch.

I’m making a space walking sim in unity and needed some information on what makes them good, thanks!

Holy shit 1.6K already?! You're obviously doing something right lol. Keep it up! Seriously though I need to rethink my strategy. Been at it for 4-ish years and I've got 400 subs to show for it. That many in a couple of months? Good on you, mate. There's the loudest golf-clap I can manage going on right now, but you just can't hear it because this is only a comment.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+Adam-Matic Gaming Thanks! It's only really due to one video getting some success. The other videos have piggy backed off the Andromeda one a bit, but they wouldn't have many views by themselves. My subs jumped from 400 just a few weeks ago. I think KZread put the Andromeda video into people's recommendations so it got loads of hits.

@autumn_breeze616

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah I went to your past videos just to make sure that it really was only a few months ago and found that it had upwards of 30K views. So that definitely helps. But again, it just means you're going something right. Or it's one of those weird instances where youtube just decides to promote a video for no apparent reason. I'm going with the former because I find it more appealing.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

There's an element of right place, right time as well. People hate Andromeda (quite rightly imo), and my video is just what a lot of people are already thinking. If Andromeda hadn't come out, I doubt I'd be where I am now in terms of my subscriber count (which I still can't quite believe!).

I just found you and watched your Mass Effect video it's great. Anyway I think walking simulators can be good in few ways. One is to make you feel like the character and empathize with him/her. The second way is to make it feel like you're a virtual tourist to a grand location. I want to see a game take place in ancient long gone city or big event where combat would not make sense. Half Life 3 is a walking sim that you play as the G-Man!

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+MADCATMK3103 The graphics are so photo realistic in some of these games that an historical setting would totally work. Even Rapture, which I didn't enjoy, made me feel nostalgic due to its recreation of a small English village. I'd love to experience history through games like this. Thanks for watching!

I like the Walking Sims the most that you feel like the interactivity adds something to the delivery over a book or movie, like you said in your review. I like that in other genres of games, too, though, and I dont mean walking or shooting from cutscene to cutscene. More when the gameplay is used to tell the story as well, good examples imho are Undertale with characterization through battle mechanics and all the meta stuff in it, the ending of Brothers: a tale of two sons (there is a specific part that hits you emotionally specifically because of the gameplay before), or yes the decisions to follow the narrator or not in the Stanley Parable or the fish chopping while daydreaming in Edith Finch. Such stories feel like they only work as games and it usually pleases me on some level, either intellectually (I see what you did there!) or, the ones who do it really well, emotionally or by adding immersion.

I'm not sure if this counts as a walking simulator but oxenfree. It's a 2Dish side scroller that is all story. I found there was never a dull moment while playing it and it kept me immersed and intrigued during my whole play through. It took me about 3:30 hours and the minute I finished I replayed it and there where subtle differences that really make it worth another play through.

If you haven't already you should play The Beginner's Guide. It's by one of the guys who made the Stanley Parable and I'd be interested to see where it's placed on your review table. It doesn't do any of the things that you mentioned making a great walking sim, it doesn't really have any interactivity, and it gives the player agency only insofar as it cuts out the middleman of having a playable character by saying that the player IS the character. But that said, it's probably the game narrative I've spent the most amount of time thinking about afterwards. Some have argued that you're only truly done playing the game once you've played it a second time (and there is a second game "mode" specifically encouraging this). It seems to me like it's interactive in an entirely different way from video games. You, the player, make decisions that the game doesn't actually acknowledge or respond to but those decisions are explicitly how you feel about what's happening in the game. The game is 2 hours long, and there isn't really any "filler," I think most of the walking around where there's no dialogue is there because it needs to be there. Rather than stretching out the game, it serves a purpose that, in my opinion, enhances the narrative. But I'd be interested to hear what you think.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Oh man, The Beginner's Guide! I remember hearing a lot about that when it was first released and then forgot all about it. Critics certainly had some strong feelings about that game if I remember correctly. It's on sale for $3.99 so I'll pick it up. Thanks for reminding me!

@StefanConstantinDumitrache

7 жыл бұрын

Fun fact: the game can be completed in less than two hours, so you'll be able to refund it after finishing it /jk

@Teawisher

7 жыл бұрын

I also came to comments to recommend it as it was missing from your list and does some really interesting things.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+Teawisher Cool, thanks!

Little late to the comment party. As someone who loved What Remains of Edith Finch and connected with it, I agree with most if not all your observations. I do think that there is a definite divide amongst the community of whether the titles mentioned in this video and similar ones could be even called games; and a degree of apathy from both sides. Which leads me to believe that if we should have some sort of consensus/acceptance that gaming platforms are more than just about collectibles, achievements and game mechanics but have expanded to become an art form with sub genres. And while each one of them may not be for everyone, most everyone can find entertainment in the platform and enjoy the content in their own ways. Two 'walking simulators' I enjoyed prior to Edith FInch: Journey and Abzu. Also, I wonder if Soma would have been better served by ditching the forced upon 'game' mechanics and was instead presented as a ~4-6hr walking simulator...

Only makes sense to give failing marks to something which fails to deliver on its core promise.

When I played Edith Finch I was impressed with how they made use of game mechanics to immerse the player as you described in the video, but I don't really think that's the most important factor in my enjoyment of a walking sim. For me, if I'm just not engaged with the story that the mechanics are supposed to immerse me in then it's just a waste of a good technique. Since Edith Finch was structured so that the player doesn't really have time to get to know or care about any of the characters, I found it hard to care about any of what was happening - drawing me in through the gameplay didn't help with this since I never cared about the characters in the first place. To me the game feels like more of an experiment in how to tell stories through game mechanics, and I thought it did succeed in this technique-wise but the story itself was weaker imo. My favourite walking sim is The Beginner's Guide, which doesn't really use the techniques you described in the video, at least not as obviously as Edith Finch. I guess you haven't played it since you didn't mention it in the video, but basically you don't really play as a character in that game - you're just you, the person who has bought The Beginner's Guide, going through a pack of unfinished games while a voice-over plays. So I guess it can't really get you to identify more with a character because there is no character. One of the things the game did really well though was atmosphere - the feeling of walking through unfinished games alone was so lonely and unnerving, then the bleak design of a lot of the levels was also super strong. The story also is really engaging and can be interpreted in tons of interesting ways. I feel like the strength of walking sims in general is in these two areas since they can purely focus on just that after everything else has been stripped out - if they can use some minimal mechanic to further strengthen my connection to the game then great, but if the foundation isn't there then I won't be as engaged. Either way this video definitely changed the way I think about these games

3:47 "You can't just kill a dog at the end and make everyone cry." Neil Druckmann :Hold my golf club.

10:47 The game does explain how Molly died: she ate toothpaste and holly berries from a decorative branch in her bathroom. Both of those are poisonous. Her becoming the animals is a hunger and poison provoked dream she had, and wrote in her diary about before she died.

I know you don't like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture because of its limited gameplay and relatively bare experience, but that's pretty much the point of the game. The gameplay of EGTTR is supposed to be symbolic of the community that the player character explores, i.e one that does not change no matter how much effort is put into finding something deeper in the mindset the community has. The plot and the gameplay are both commentaries on the close-mindedness of small christian communities like the one in the game, which is the reason for the rapture in the first place. Also, on the topic of the lack of suspense (since you already know what happens,) i'd say that the story is more interested in how and why the community was wiped out by the rapture rather than the immediate outcome of their collective fate. Essentially, you can gain a lot of enjoyment from EGTTR if you don't view the gameplay as part of the story, but rather as a playable metaphor that enhances the story. Other than that, the video was great and it was really well put together, great job!

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Hi, thanks for the feedback. I've got to be honest, that sounds like a bit of a stretch. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't imagine finding a static world like this one all that interesting even if it is supposed to be a metaphor. It might make a difference on a subsequent playthrough perhaps, but I don't know... I'm not sure I think about games deep enough to reach that conclusion in the first place. I'm more likely to spend a second playthrough getting annoyed at the slow movement speed than appreciating it as a metaphor.

@MyDropShipHasCrashed

7 жыл бұрын

Chris Davis Alright, that's fair. Thanks for the speedy response!

I enjoyed The Stanley Parable but bounced off of Firewatch. TSP felt more interactive and had a more mysterious premise and better humor.

I feel like my problem is the entire time I play a walking sim I'm usually thinking something like "I would enjoy this more if it were just a short movie/video instead. Yes they look nice, and might have great music (which hey I like music, and would probably buy the soundtracks), but for it to be a game, and to justify money being spent I feel it needs more interaction, or meat for the player to play with. Otherwise, again why not just be a short movie? Just because the player is required to amble along by pushing the analog stick/holding the run button, and is having audio played at them doesn't really make something worthy of a game label in my opinion. A walking sim can give you an experience which is great, but to me it's still not really a game when all you're required to do is hold a button, and on occasion press a different one. I can appreciate a good story, but these games aren't really games. Just make short movies/videos instead.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

At risk of just repeating what I say in the video, I think you're describing games like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture and Dear Esther, but not games like What Remains of Edith Finch which for me is on another level. The Stanley Parable absolutely requires interaction from the player. It doesn't work without it and it couldn't be a movie. Of course, this genre (as with all genres really) won't be everyone's thing, and that's fair enough.

@MrNinjaBurger

7 жыл бұрын

You're correct in that it's most likely a me issue more so than anything else. I also agree with SP not being the same as a game like DE, which I despised, and felt cheated by.

@theowittkovskiy961

7 жыл бұрын

MrNinjaBurger But you can't really watch a movie on your own pace, while in games environmental storytelling is still a thing and a lot of information can be gathered through the means of exploration, which in a context of a movie would simply not work.

I think you make an interesting point. I've played them all and I loved Edith Finch and Firewatch because I felt like they really captivated me with their characters and exposition. I also think the voiceover plays a very large part in drawing (me in at least) into the experience. I found all the other very dull, boring and frustrating but Firewatch & Edith Finch resonated so much with me I've played them 3-4 times and am left craving more!

"And i have not played a walking simulator yet where the story would work on its own" Honestly this one point is a such bafflement, because its so true and which is why i have no interest in walking simulators anymore. You would think a genre that sits between Visual Novels and a "regular game" would care a lot more about it, because clearly the tiny amount gameplay elements ( many VNs have interactive elements even minigames although thats not for the better ) and the linearity should mean that story is still one of the few tools they have available to use. Thus i agree that lot of ( most ) walking simulators rightfully deserve a lesser rating. Then again people consider 6/10 games flat out terrible to the point that games dont even get a rating below 5/10 which is suppose to be a mediocre experience which clearly there a lot more of and more importantly its hard to distinguish a 7/10 from an 8/10 since the avarage seems to be sitting above 7/10. Its sad that when i want to explore my Mystery urges i can only truly turn to Visual Novels.

I've played Firewatch, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Dear Esther, Gone Home. I've got a bit of enjoyment from The Vanishing of Ethan Carter and really didn't enjoy other ones. Which kind of makes sense, cause I play games for interactivity, sense of agency and immersion. It seems that I would never understand, why people enjoy those kinds of "games".

Do you think you'll ever do a review of Fallout 4? With how much you ripped in to Andromedas story I'd love to see you do fallout 4 story as well...

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I probably won't do a full video on Fallout 4 because I can't think of anything to say that hasn't already been covered by Joseph Anderson and Mr. Caption. However, I am going to be discussing Fallout 4's story in the video after the one on Nioh. Keep an eye out for that one--it'll be a bit different!

I think what makes a good walking simulator is that it has to create a meaningful motional experience and investment for the player. I know that sounds vague and intangible but that's what separated the ones I've finished and the ones I've abandoned 20 minutes in. In Gone Home I was emotionally invested in the love story of the PC's sister. In Everones gone to rapture, the game didn't made me care about the story or the characters because they were faceless, indistinguishable lights with the personalities of dish water. There is an exemption for clever writing for walking sims like Stanley parable. And let's not forget one of the least talk about game that people don't think of as walking sim: Journey. It wasn't the interactive or visual elements that made that game what it is, but the emotional bond you create with the other players.

@Say_No_To_e-Girls

7 жыл бұрын

*emotional

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+Ka Chan I considered including Journey, but I'm still in two minds about whether or not it is a walking simulator. The others were all first person so they fit together better in my mind. You're right though, Journey is an incredible game, especially if you are able to create a bond with another player which I did on my first playthrough. It was incredible.

Interesting video, which raises some good points about this genre. But way harsh on Everybody’s Gone To The Rapture! I think that game had quite a lot of emotionally-engaging stories skilfully woven into the core plot. I liked the format and gentle pace of it and I think arbitrarily littering it with puzzles to keep the player engaged would have diminished from the experience. It felt more like wandering around a virtual gallery than playing a game, which worked well given the story focused on characters isolated from one another, failing to reach out and properly connect (unlike the invading life form, which could be seen as a metaphor for that theme). I thought the story had a lot of depth to it. Perhaps it shouldn’t even be classified as a game, but if the medium is going to progress, it will be on those willing to experiment with the form in different ways. Edith Finch’s clever playing the with player’s understanding of gameplay mechanics is one way; Everybody’s Gone To The Rapture’s resistance to implementing those mechanics is another deliberate artistic choice.

Good video, but I'm still mad about the baseless insult to Zelda in the beginning

Hey I think that the dear Ester example could have been shorter and your point is not that clear to me (what is your solution) Great video bye the way (sorry for my bad English)

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Hi. I'm not sure how I would "fix" Dear Esther. Maybe it would be better if you had to do something to unlock the next piece of the story. In Dear Esther, you just walk around and the story pops up. As the player, you never have to do anything and I don't find that particularly interesting.

@theowittkovskiy961

7 жыл бұрын

But what about Gone Home? If I remember correctly there were no puzzles in that game either (except for maybe one). And looking at things in the environment is also a big part of Dear Esther. But somehow it manages to get a 5/5 and Dear Esther ends up with just 2/5. It seems insane to me, that a few very basic gameplay elements can elevate a game from a 2/5 to a 5/5. I know, I should probably stop...

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I can't say much that isn't already in the video. In Gone Home, you are a girl in a house and you act as that girl in the house. You find diary entries and start to piece together what's going on. You can search cupboards and drawers. Listen to answer machine messages. Find postcards you sent from your trip. If you don't explore the house, you won't find all the diary entries and won't fully understand what's going on. You won't find out that your mom has a crush on her co-worker or that your dad is trying to write a novel but suffering from an alcohol problem. The house is a little scary at first. It's dark, so you turn on the lights. You spend the entire time wondering why the house is abandoned. You expect to find something horrific in the attic. There's tension and atmosphere. In Dear Esther, you just push forward and the story plays out. You can't interact with anything. Even your flashlight turns on automatically.

@theowittkovskiy961

7 жыл бұрын

But the same can be said for Dear Esther not counting the small layer of interactivity, that it lacks. It replaces this layer with a layer of its own, that hasn't been used too much in games, but is far superior to letters and postcards. A lot of the story is in the environment, in this case, the island. It is a very abstract game in that sense, but it still is a game, that plays out in your head. This is the reason, why narration is given out in short bursts with moments of silence in-between. During these moments the player is meant to process what he just heard and fill in the blanks with his own interpretation. The main reason for the slow movement speed. I think, this game is meant to be played multiple times at different points in your life and just like in Journey, each time you will feel a different array of emotions. Also another note, I loved, how the game handled death. There are no real invisible walls and there is one place, where you can fall into a large hole. It would have been so simple to restrict the player's freedom, but instead of taking the easy way out, they added a small cutscene, that puts you back on the spot you were before you died. This also goes well along with the story, since it enhances the fact, that you can't escape this metaphorical island. Also, if you are observant enough, you may have noticed the little paper ships, which are actual letters in the cave, flowing past you in the stream. Not even messages to the outside world find their way out. Dear Esther is all about being observant and being aware of your environment. The clever level design enhances this point. At least in the newer version, you can replay sections of the game. And you really should at least replay the caves, because this is the first time, where the game caught me of guard. The way it uses its environment to tell the story is something that can not be captured in any other medium other than games

I really hate the dismissive meme around games of this sort but I actually have to admit that I find a lot of them kinda miserable myself. I played through Firewatch a few days ago and thought the writing was delightful and legitimately clever in a way that I find almost no games, even ones adulated for that very thing like Oxenfree or Night in the Woods, but still almost abandoned it for what an atrocious chore I found moving through that game, and that's the one that has the good grace to at least give you a run button. Only now, looking at that above list, do I realize I'd already had that experience with a few other games and that this was really only the crystallizing moment. I mentioned to some friends early on in my playthrough of Firewatch that I think I would probably adore that game if it were a text adventure and I feel much the same way about the Stanley Parable, especially. All of that said, I make a point of establishing that context so much because Virginia might outright be my favorite game of 2016. The step up in thoughtfulness, in my opinion, from a "doo doo walking sims sucks" viewpoint would be to say that they can be fascinating things as long as they take the opportunity of what they jettison to fill in the experience with other interesting, ambitious ideas, as much as many still don't do even that. Virginia, then, even more aggressively limits the experience, takes out dialogue, puts you in almost tauntingly closed-off environments, doesn't even allow you to experience the whole of moving one place to another often via jump cuts, and gathers all that anticlimax and tunnel vision into some wonderful places. Really love that thing, when I finished my first playthrough I started it back up and played it immediately again thereafter. Anywho, I actually haven't watched the video yet so I'm excited to see what you think of the genre on the whole!

@nintoforgi

7 жыл бұрын

I think you make a lot of compelling points, the review commentary more or less completely aside, and in general I think games are finally starting, as of the past 5-10 years, what it is that great art often strives for, your central thesis of understanding another mind for a short time. Perhaps the biggest thing I would personally add is that another common factor in a lot of these that you liked best, and the ones I find most interesting, is that the act of traversing the world needs to not be a waste of time. The Stanley Parable perhaps betrays this but, otherwise, there's a textual importance to how you move through Finch, Gone Home, and Firewatch, whereas what you found most frustrating about Carter is how its puzzle game impulses pushed you into spinning your tires at times and found the movement speed and general lack of things in Rapture hugely frustrating. It ends up being one of the most important parts of Virginia for me, too, although you didn't see it that way yourself.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

"the act of traversing the world needs to not be a waste of time." That's a brilliant way to put it!

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I had a weird experience with Virginia. As I played it, I found it a little tedious and didn't like some of what I thought was ambiguity. It felt a lot like Rapture. Then I slept on it and the next morning it just made a lot more sense. It's not actually ambiguous. Not really. The symbology is relatively easy to interpret when you stop and think about it. The story has an ending. That's what sets it above Rapture and Dear Esther for me. I still think it would have been better with more interactivity mind you, but I get why someone could think so highly of the experience.

Haha, finally someone who isn't wanking off to Breath of the Wild. I never got the 10/10 scores. Great video, I was surprised to see one so soon after Prey. I think the closest I have ever gotten to a WS was Amnesia: The Dark Descent, arguably not one, but I have heard players say that it is one. You ought to try it if you haven't. Legitimately the best horror out there in my opinion. Your laptop should handle it, you could even stream it if that's your thing.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I've not played Amnesia. It's $2.99 on Steam right now, so I'll pick it up. I always thought it was more a horror game than a walking simulator, but I guess there's no reason it can't be both.

@LordofBroccoli

7 жыл бұрын

It's absolutely a horror through and through, but you still do a lot of what you do in WS. Give it a whirl.

@mirragon8488

7 жыл бұрын

It'd be very interesting to hear your opinions on Amnesia coming from the point of view of comparing it to walking simulators rather than horror games. It definitely has more in-depth gameplay and puzzle elements than these games, but I can see the parallels. The sequel (Machine for Pigs) is more of a walking simulator than the first. I highly recommend them both as great experiences.

@toolshedvideo

7 жыл бұрын

Marc Shanahan I enjoyed SOMA quite a bit. I thought it had a great story that packed a huge punch at the end. Same devs as Amnesia, but SOMA has less horror to it, and would probably fit the WS definition better. Though neither is probably considered a true WS, they have plenty in common with the genre.

@LordofBroccoli

7 жыл бұрын

tooldshedvideo I never played SOMA, but I did watch it and I agree, the overtones and topics are dealt with very well. A good game on the meaning of conciousness and existence.

I think the "gap" you are talking about between games like Edith and games like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture...is that 1 is actually a walking simulator...and the other is a series of mini-games themed to the story where you walk between them. I'm way late to this comment section but my immediate rejection of your basic point is that: Edith Finch is barely a walking simulator. It's a series of mini-games used to tell a story...and you walk between them. Firewatch is an Immersive Sim where you interact with the environment, solve puzzles, and play the part of the role in physical ways. It's not a walking simulator in the same vein of Gone Home, Amensia, or Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. Even the Unfinished Swan has LOTS of environment interaction and is more a puzzle game. Imo, what specifically denotes the Walking Sim genre, is that walking is LITERALLY all you do...so saying "don't make it a walking sim" in the case of Edith Finch is unhelpful...especially if you are limited to telling a story through a walking sim level of talent and budget. A walking sim can have nodes to interact with to get the story, such as a notepad/letter/or the motion control in Everybody's gone to the Rapture (which I didn't like although the game itself is one of my favorites). Death Stranding...as much as people give it the title because they wanted a different game because they were hyped....isn't a walking simulator. It has guns, weight mechanics, vehicles, etc. The label walking simulator is completely unhelpful in every way. it's as much a walking simulator as Fallout. I also don't think "finding the story" in a walking simulator is akin to turning the page in a book. A book requires your imagination, most of the text in a book isn't the story itself. A walking simulator presents visuals to immerse you into a specific setting in a way that a book will not...as the book has to spend MUCH of the book denoting the setting and context, whereas the 3D environment can skip ALL setting description and instead present the narrative plainly and clearly. Stanley Parable is a walking sim...it's just not a traditional one by any means because it manipulates the environment SO much...but you ONLY walk. As far as story is concerned...a game like Edith Finch benefits from whimsy and less serious plotting where it ends up being more playful and quirky...this doesn't work if you are trying to tell a story like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture where you are interrogating faith, death, and want to do so seriously...if I'm playing a little mini-game when the game has the tone and plot of Everybody's Gone to the Rapture I'm gonna ask the question why? Wtf is the point? When a game like Edith Finch is trying to make sense of death and does through in an animated point of view...sure, but it also...imo...lost me because it kind of lost the plot for me along the way (not in a sense that I understood it...but I just didn't understand the narrative decisions other than the creative flex of creating fun little mini-games and whimsical setpieces). Also, I think it's wild you think Everybody's Gone to the Rapture lacks "something to think about" and I feel like maybe you just didn't get it because it's easily one of the deeper artistic experiences I've gotten and most intriguing games I've played...way more so than a game like Edith Finch which was fun, but at the end of the day...less complicated in what it was actually talking about nor hard to grasp. A game like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture is the kind of game that sits with you forever. Also I think a game like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture suffered in score because 1) The theme was more esoteric and not as easily viseral and to many I imagine the plot was a turn off because it was on its face a very mundane series of people and stories in the context of an unclear event 2) The game was poorly optimized, and ran like shit on lots of platforms...and still doesn't run well on PC. Which is why it gets a lot of bad reviews even today.

digged the video, need more channels with long videos about video games!!!!!

Great video and analysis!

My wife and I played through Oxenfree last year (and loved it) and then Ethan Carter a month ago (enjoyed it too but felt it ended too soon). We really liked the mystery that those games brought and we appreciated the puzzles of Ethan as they gave us more to discuss together as we played which drew us into it more and made us feel more invested. We recently played through The Fidelio Incident and while we enjoyed it from a visual and graphical aspect, the story didn't feel interesting enough to warrant the endless lever and valve puzzles you had to do. Also, the walking speed felt punishingly slow. Haven't played any others but I don't want to buy a game where there is zero gameplay and mediocre to poor storytelling.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I've not played the Fidelio Incident yet but it's on my list. I don't understand why so many games like this have painfully slow walking speeds. I can only assume it's a hardware limitation, but it's really frustrating.

My recent interest in Visual/Kinetic Novels gives me some insight into why you think and feel the way you do about Walking Simulators, which is why while I will never care enough about the limited story walking around and clicking buttons provides to be excited about another WS, I can understand why some people like them, and also why some appeal more to one group of people over another. The difference between a VN and a WS to me is the level of imaginative freedom given to the person experiencing them, and the expectation of a story told in a 2D view, and one in a freely explorable 3D view. I respect our differences in opinion CD, but I simply can't enjoy a game in 3D movement unless there's significant gameplay input required by the player. So for me, and probably others like me, all of these Walking Simulators are basically the same regardless of how different they seem to someone interested in them. Complete disclosure, this is, more or less, how I also view *most* First Person Shooters, sports games Dungeon RPG's and VR games. In other words, this talk about Walking Simulators having variation is largely a matter of whether one enjoys them, and to what extent, and what they look for in one. But the argument as to whether they're games or not? They kind of are because they require an input device and direction from the player, but by that definition so are Visual Novels. But by that definition so is a picture book, or manga. Hell stretching out the definition technically a movie won't continue or start without direction from the person looking at them. So, again, for me, and others like me, Walking Simulators are probably closer to stories than games, so while they probably technically qualify, they are rarely what comes to mind when one thinks of a video game. Your quip about major publications' opinions varying wildly has more factors than just preference, usually PR or money, but sometimes as has been seen cronyism and favoritism, which is why it's important to look for objective positives or negatives and ignore the overall. As you've said beyond graphics and sound, a WS is its directed story alone bolstered by its graphics and sound, which helps make them what is probably the most subjective type of video game. Thanks for providing your point of view on them. I'll never share it, but it's good to know someone's taste and reasoning when you listen to their opinion.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+boltblackjoker Thanks for the feedback. I'm new to visual novels, but have played things Steins;Gate, Nonary trilogy, and danganronpa. Are they all considered visual novels? I quite like them, although I wonder whether they have similar issues to walking simulators. Steins Gate requires almost zero meaningful interaction from the player. It's basically a book. Fortunately, I thought it was a good book. However, danganronpa and Zero Escape have much more interaction. Even if I didn't like those stories (which I do), I could still enjoy the games. What sort of stuff do you play?

@boltblackjoker

7 жыл бұрын

Variation in gameplay aside, yes, Danganronpa, Nonary Games, Steins;Gate, etc. are all part of a long-running genre of Visual Novels, occasionally drifting into other genres such as adventure, FPS, or even SRPG in the case of Tears to Tiara and Utawarerumono. You're correct that the vast majority of these games has little to no involvement from the player, but as someone who grew up playing low-tech games of the past from Commodore 64, NES, SNES, Genesis, Game Boy, etc., it's easier for me to put myself in the 2D worlds probably because it requires more direct involvement from my mind to fill in the gaps not decided upon by the game. I imagine this is part of the argument those who prefer text-based RPG's, or tabletop RPG's, use when talking about their preferred genres, mixed in with more creative freedom to interact with the story and characters as well as nostalgia bias. For games I enjoy, a cross section of some of my favorites off the top of my head: Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen, Robot Alchemic Drive, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy III, Earth Defense Force 4.1, Fallout 1 & 2, Endless Legend, XCOM Enemy Unknown, Galactic Civilizations II Dark Avatar, Assassin's Creed Rogue, Dungeon Travelers 2, Project X Zone, Final Fantasy Tactics, Puzzle Quest, Prototype, The Darkness, Jade Cocoon, Legend of Legaia 2, Deception 3, Klonoa 2, Ratchet and Clank 1, Kirby's Adventure, Kirby Superstar, Monster Rancher 1 2 & 4, Jumping Flash, The Legend of Dragoon, Metal Gear Solid 1 2 & 3, Saints Row 2, Thea The Awakening... These I play with lots of mods installed, which matters quite a bit since I probably would have dropped them a long time ago without: Fallen Enchantress Legendary Heroes, Civilization V, Fallout New Vegas. So, broadly speaking, lately I play a lot of turn-based strategy or RPG games with some Action/ARPG thrown in the mix.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Nice mixture. Very different to what I play for the most part, although there's a bit of cross over. One big problem I've found is that I've never enjoyed turn based RPGs but I like the stories and characters in those games. Similarly, I want to get into turn based strategy games more, but find them kind of overwhelming. It's weird, as I used to play Civilization and Alpha Centuri a lot as a kid, but I seem to have lost all that acquired knowledge. I'm going to make a concerted effort to get into Crusader Kings II one day. I love the sound of that game, I just don't have the time to devote to learning it yet.

@boltblackjoker

7 жыл бұрын

Chris Davis Games like crusader kings and europa universalis are beyond the level of depth I look for in a strategy game, there are systems built upon systems that are reliant on other systems which are also dependent on systems built upon systems. If you can figure them out and enjoy them, good on you friend. Complexity to a point works for me, but when you have to worry about who your son marries while half of your army is fighting a holy war for your blood brother and deciding to marry your daughter to which of the two hungry warlords is less likely to stab you in the back, keeping yourself or your line from assassination, and underhanded attempts to grow your own empire by claiming land belonging to someone else, or having any of these things happen to you at real time to me is far more overwhelming. There's a reason Civ, Galciv, EL, FE:LH are known as strategy or 4X, and both CK and EU as grand strategy. As for RPG's, yep, you're right. A lot of the gameplay can be samey and grindy which bogs down the enjoyment of the characters and story, which I think is why VN's in particular are seemingly more popular than in the past. Back then the systems the games used were different or built upon enough that the gameplay was just as varied as it needed to be, which diversified and evolved up to a point which has long passed. There are some games I appreciate from a distance either because I didn't like how it controlled or because they're just so dense mechanically that I can't devote the time necessary to wrap my head around them. If you ever do a CKII or a EU4 video I'd love to watch it.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+boltblackjoker I like to jump in at the deep end! Unfortunately everything you described about the complexity of Crusader Kings is exactly what appeals to me. There's just the minor problem of me not understanding it. It would be fun to do a video on it, but I'd have to be clear that it was very much from a newcomers perspective. I already own the game, so it's just a case of waiting until I get a decent PC. Thanks for the response.

90 minutes on Gone Home? Well, everyone has their own opinions, but for me that particular game did nothing. I feel it gets a lot of undeserved praise.

Oh. So I have bad taste I guess: I didn't like (at all) What Remains Of Edith Finch while on the other hand, I thoroughly enjoyed Ethan Carter, I didn't like Dear Esther, loved Gone Home and The Stanley Parable (which isn't a "walking simulator" in my opinion...). I think that this genre isn't really a genre as much as it is a sub-genre of the point&clic adventure game. For me P&C have always been about story, but the presentation, as far as gameplay goes was turned towards puzzles. But at some point, the puzzles got so stupidly hard, to top each previous game from the genre that P&C died. Walking Simulator and Telltale's like games are the descendance of these P&C. Telltale took a couple of games to get it right (I mean Jurassic Park and Back to the Future were not stellar to say the least) but they understood with their formula that there was something to do with the character driven P&C that didn't involve complicated puzzles. And even if Dear Esther was a more extreme attempt, I think it still is the same idea, just put in first person...Dear Esther is something the like of "Myst without puzzles". And then other games tried that formula out in different forms. I think that trying to find a distinction between "good" and "bad" walking simulator is much more complicated than what you made it out to be. For me, finding which of these you like is more about finding two things: 1/ What balance of interaction to environment there is. These games are on a scale from "interactive" to "almost none-interactive". 2/ How do you interact, with "simulation" versus "contextual". I think with these two elements, you can put the games of the genre on some sort of graphic with Soma and Gone Home being mostly "interactive simulation" (you can touch every door, open drawers etc...), What Remains Of Edith Finch being "interactive contextual" (you touch things depending of the situation, the character crouches on its own, the camera moves often without your command to look at text flying...), Dear Esther being "none-interactive contextual" (you don't interact with the environment except when moving some places, someone talks) and Proteus being "none-interactive simulation" (in the sense that there are rules to the sound and colors displayed that somehow "match" the way you move...supposedly). And I know why I'm not a fan (at all) of Edith Finch: I personnaly hate contextual actions because I always feel like the dev doesn't trust me with a set of tools. Give me Edith Finch with the same control scheme and (apparent) liberty of movement as Gone Home and I'd love the game. Except since someone is always turning the camera for me, always semi-jumping/crouching for me, I feel like I'm not in the gameworld and story. Even the story about becoming animals, you don't really control anything, you jump exactly where you are asked to, you fly in a set direction...the exact same moment but with freedom to jump/fly/swim freely (in the limit of the house of course) around, and the scene would have had a great punch for me. Just the fact that you have to hold the door in a game like Amnesia (which is almost a walking simulator in a spooky setting) give a boost to the immersion for me. And I love having a set of tools, even if really limited, that I can use when and where I want. That's why Virginia didn't click with me, but The Invisible Hours, which is a movie that you can navigate in with rewind option, did. One is showing me a story, letting me barely point the view in a direction: the other let's me explore it, just puts a background and trust that I will enjoy traversing it.

Life is Strange definitely needs to be on that list. If you have not played it so far, then do yourself the favor change that. Also it actually fits into your thesis about character immersion quite nicely. I'm actually surprised no-one else in these comments mentioned this game so far. As for Edith Finch I have to say that I've indeed been quite disappointed by that game. Objectively it brings some aspects like level design or gameplay to unprecedented heights, but at the same time it focuses on so many unrelatable and often exaggerated secondary characters, which wasn't to my personal liking. The whole family and especially their house just seemed too unrealistic in my eyes. Plus the game's message to enjoy life because death waits around every corner isn't something you need to tell me twice, thus it didn't affect me all that much in the end. It's still a good game though, with an art and gameplay design that cannot be praised enough.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I've played Life is Strange (and loved it), but I don't feel like it belongs with other walking sims. It feels more like an adventure game. You're definitely right about the immersion though. Brilliant experience.

I feel like a walking sim with a crowded and detailed environment, for example a turn of the century city, could be interesting to play.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I'm a sucker for anything set in London or other big English cities around the turn of the 20th century.

I love walking simulators , Also layers of fear is wonderful Gone home and firewatch are beautiful and dear Esther has awesome music

As much as I ultimately enjoy meaty gameplay over story (because story is something I ignore after about a 3rd or 4th playthrough, depending on the game) I kind of prefer a walking simulator to focus just on story. To say that a game can't be a game without gameplay is kind dismissive to the intent of the developer, especially since there are lots of games people love that have outright terrible gameplay. I don't mean to seem bias, but you don't play a traditional turn based RPG just for the turn based combat. You don't play horror games for the combat (depending). In my opinion, I would prefer the developer to make the story they want, rather than make the story they want but also shove in bog standard gameplay for the sake of gameplay. I know the latter has been done well in the past, but not every developer is that talented enough

So bad I haven't got time to play these touching games anymore. Wasted most of it playing fps back in my teenage. Played through Firewatch and Gone Home, both are amazing. The "walking part" of these games make you think. That is the only goal of these kind of games: think, move your creativity, while doing something calming.

Awesome video

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Walking Simulator is a better term. People now know exactly what it means and what they can expect from it. But "first person narrative experiences"? It's stupid. I can call many games like that that aren't Walking Simulators. And this term makes sense from a video game standpoint. Because it is the single main interactivity that happens to you when you are playing them. It's on what steering scheme makes you focus your "gamer powers" while playing. And everything else you do with "one button press". Again, that's where main interactivity comes from. If you don't want to call them Walking Simulators you may as well not call them even video games. I'm not saying that a better term for it can't be invented but I for sure haven't heard it yet. And by the way: This topic is a good example of definitely giving too much time to be overthinking something:)

Why does he hate breathe of the wild

Excellent video. My one caveat is that you didn't review/shit-on Dear Esther since it's at the bottom of your list.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

I know, but I couldn't capture any footage of it without my laptop threatening to explode. I just found the experience so similar to Rapture that I'd be repeating myself (same studio, same composer, same general meandering). But yeah, maybe I should have just talked about it anyway while another game plays in the background. Fair criticism though. I'll bear it in mind for future videos.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

If you look at the footage for The Stanley Parable you can see a few frame drops in the recording. That's why there's not much footage of that game either. Now imagine that but ten times worse and you have my footage of Dear Esther. I need to get a decent PC one of these days.

Played them all. Loved them all!!

If you have to input into the game using a controller or keyboard and mouse to make something happen on screen then it's a fucking video game.

You must play Dear Esther!

I love your comment about Zelda BOTW. There are so few of us that feel that way.

I like your videos. I suggest you invest in some kind of sound damping around your recording environment; hearing a lot of reverb on your voice.

@ChrisDavis_Games

7 жыл бұрын

+FreeKnowledge98 Is that the foam stuff you put on the walls to stop echoing? A decent mic would help as well, but you know... $$$

Love Edith Finch. I thought Standly is clever. And Gone home is touching. I don't mind walking sim lacking game play since I hope to experience something from them the same way from other art forms.If I want to play a game for the gameplay I'll play something else.

The only walking sim I've played is Firewatch. Also dang so much hate fir Homefront the revolution haha. I hated it at first and then ended up loving it.

i loved the house room puzzle in eathan carter and that puzzle alone puts it at #2 for me edith finch is clearly the best game

This video convinced me to go back and try What Remains of Edith Finch and Gone Home. I enjoyed Vanishing of Ethan Carter, but I HATED Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. Just seeing footage of it gave me PTSD flashbacks aha. This is gonna sound weird, but I platinumed it out of pure spite. Most boring experience ever. It suffers from the "David Cage effect" where the devs forget that they're actually making a game.

@ChrisDavis_Games

6 жыл бұрын

I also platinumed Rapture. I'm not proud of that one! Hope you enjoy the other two. Edith Finch is still in the running for my game of the year. Loved it.

I think that Gone Home isn't even in the same galaxy with What remains of Edith Finch/The Stanley Parable in terms of quality. The quality of writing to be exact GH is the lifetime drama material at it's best. It has that whole bait and switch thing going for it, but that's about it. None of the characters were all that developed and likable for me to give a shit. There was no real believable teenage drama, this romantic relationship was way too unnatural and sickeningly perfect. Also, there are literally dozens of games that did that whole "interactive storytelling" way better than GH What remains of Edith Finch is way more meaningful than that.

i really hope you've played ether one. its an amazing game and it would be fun to here what you would have to say about it

5:54 TO 6:30 BRO WHAT IS THE GAME THAT YOU PLAY BEETWEEN PLEASE TELL

@farcrystar7698

2 жыл бұрын

What Remains of Edith Finch

Have you played maize?

Technically, ABZU is walking simulator too, since there is not much gameplay besides find a key or don't swim near object. Except the story sucks.

When the darkness comes is an amazing game and its free

2:38 That book say Benjamin Almond?

I think that many walking simulators let you observe and live the story rather than interact with the story