I’m an oddball in that switching to Altra actually helped my Achilles issues. My Achilles issues were all stability issues, and having the zero drop helped me better stabilize myself.

@sidoirm

Жыл бұрын

I’m right there with you. Got into running using the altra paradigm 6. Never had any issues and still love the shoe, just crossed 300miles. As that shoe is going I went for a puma velocity nitro 2. I like the shoe and my legs feel fresh after a run, but I developed extensor tendinitis in my foot and I believe it was due to using that shoe.

@lhotkowski

2 ай бұрын

Same. I was having severe knee pain in my left knee and I switched to Altra shoes and my knee pain is pretty much gone

Also, we don't have any wide toe boxes with higher drop. My guess is that a high drop/wide toe box would slam your toes into the front and/or the combination would just be unstable and sloppy. I can't think of any wider toe box shoe over 5mm.

Thank you for a great, clear explanation of the difference in drop and how it affects my knee hip and calfs in a way NO shoe salesman has ever explained to me.

Thanks boys, especially bringing up that the drop is dynamic.. couldn't stop laughing at the costumes 😀

Extremely good content guys. Thank you.

@DoctorsofRunning

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

This is very valuable info since I'm constantly having proximal hamstring problems. I suffered a nasty case case of proximal hamstring tendinopathy, which eventually developed into tearing of the semimembranosus tendon. Surgery was the only option. Fast forward a year, and I'm fully recovered. But as I ramped up my mileage a few weeks ago I'm feeling the all too familiar tightness creeping up on my previously asymptomatic leg. It really flared up after finishing a run on Nike ZoomX Invincible Run. I never had any hamstring-related problems when I was training in a more minimal shoes, for example Asics Gel DS Racers. Maybe switching gradually to zero drop shoes might place the stress more on my ankles and calves, rather than hips, and help with constant hamstring tightness? I'm also rehabbing aggressively with the help of isometric and eccentric exercises.

Great content. I hope you will discuss the following thing also. I saw also some comment on this heel/ calf problems I really think higher drop are great for heel/ calf problems in a static way. But often is make the problems worse I am more on the biomechanics sience. That is my background. Funny thing is drop will lead to more range of motion so more knee over toe. But this is not always you active control range. Because your body weight you have to decelerate otherwise you still go to your end of heel but on controlled. It same example on bench press you go beyond you shoulder range pure by the weight that goes down :). It also on daily use a lot of sneakers have drop this days and then you heel/ calf are never can recover because they not in rest position. I want to zero drop shoe and have no probleem. Before I tought I use my great cushion stability running shoe with drop it is great first our and after that your calf’s become stiffer and stiffer. Also I play and teach padel also this days your have a lot of drop shoes. Great for performance 30-2 hours+ or what you can handle deceleration. Zero drop or low drops give more a early sign and your tibials has can break more you feel it if your switch from higher to lower drop for example in padel where you have lot a change of direction. I think a lot of podo and fysio forget to think about this! I have discovered this my self by test and think in a biomechanics way. If you can train your calf/ Achilles you could perhaps go from zero to a moderate drop pure for performance.

Very interesting talk! from my experience over many years of running ,of course unscientific. running with rotation of like 6 pairs with different drop shoes, just works good for me. Its makes me a versatile runner, shoes replacement becomes a non issue for me. Thank you guys, keep up your good work!

Great vid. Like the Alien zero drop still feels a bit like a negative drop to me. I ended up switching to Altras some time during my 3 year battle with PF, which has not fully returned, or when it begun I've felt the warning signs and been able to fix. Now a Altra convert.

How about different stack hight’s among zero drop shoes😉. I started playing with zero drop last year, slowly doing 1Km warm ups before plyos. I did that on Vibran 5 fingers. Later I got my first Altras, and immediately noticed that you could heel strike with the later, while with the Vibrans’, unless you are Wolverine, your ankle/legs won’t be able to handle the pounding so your foot will naturally work more to absorb the impact, moving the landing slightly forward and changing the gait a bit (thr heel touches the ground afterwards, which is not “normal” with “normal” shoes). I found this to be an extraordinarily valuable experience, but mainly to create awareness of these these things, and monitor my feet motion more than ever before during gait cycle, also on higher drop shoes and start to differentiate them, without trying to force anything though. Great topic guys.

@abid4348

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting point. I'm a beginner "barefoot" runner and wanna make sure this doesn't happen to me, thanks for the heads up!

@jeffhicks8428

22 күн бұрын

zero drop and zero cushion is a recipe for disaster for the vast majority of humans. Everyone wants to pretend like they're a forefoot striker but it's known that most are not.

this was an amazing episode! found this insanely interesting I slowly worked my way down from a 10-8mm down to running comparable in 4-6mm drop shoes, as someone who over pronates i can't really run in stability shoes because the posting really bothers my arch/hurt my knee with that being said i've ran in a Cloudflow and surfer, Saucony Liberty iso 1-2 and the freedom and now it makes way more sense as to why those felt more comfortable. I am now running in the Shift 2 and it's amazing its stablizes my ankle and heel but feels natural with the 4mm drop and stiffer foam. I did have one question what are you guys take on ON running shoes with the speed board and cloudtec, I guess it's a similar? to zero drop? or at least a similar concept.

@jeffhicks8428

22 күн бұрын

most stability shoes, so called, are a marketing gimmick bordering on a scam. like there is nothing magical about making the shoe harder and lesser or non compressible on the medial side. other than making most folks more likely to injure their ankles. it doesn't "fix" anything. And yes, that's all it is, all that magical marketing boils down nothing more than the "stability" shoe is harder on the media side ie inside. It's classical dumb marketing bs. It's not backed by any kind of empirical evidence of any kind. A shoe is either inherently stable or it's not. A shoe is not going fix your gait. At best it will do no additional harm, whereas most so called stability shoes actively do harm. Notable exceptions include the Kayano. That's a consistently decent one for heavier folks who are heel strikers. The good thing about it that it doesn't just use a gimmicky medial post and call it "stability."

Very good points. My altra rivera feels like a negative drop because of the very soft midsole and my heel strike. I actually bottom out on a downhill and I am only 68kg.

@paddywiggle

2 жыл бұрын

Regardless of strike, make sure you are not overstriding

Need to know about bad knees and rocker vs zero drop please discuss as mbts had helped me with knee pain

Why do some brands only have series of high drop shoes. I like Adidas but why don't they make some low drop shoes? They force me to buy other brands!

@ericxue3244

Жыл бұрын

adios series

@jacobriis7859

Жыл бұрын

@@ericxue3244 Adios has a 8 mm drop. That is normal for most running shoes. 4 mm is low ( like the Saucony Kinvara line). And then there is also zero drop shoes!

@TheJaycal77

Жыл бұрын

@@jacobriis7859 adidas makes a zero drop lifting shoe not sure why they don’t for running

@jeffhicks8428

22 күн бұрын

because the vast majority of folks are heel strikers and the drop is potentially beneficial to them. Also the vast majority of people have stronger quads and hams than they do calves and feet. Also idk what you consider a high drop. 8 mm is 1/3 of an inch, 6 mm is 1/4 of an inch. The difference between 8 mm and 6 mm is essentially functionally irrelevant. Also I don't know if folks understand this or not, but it doesn't seem like it. In the real world, you're not walking or running on perfectly even and level surfaces. It's constantly variable, so your geometry is changing all the time. Humans are adaptable. It's not that big of a deal Folks also don't seem to consider the compression of midsoles under load which also changes the geometry in use. This is one reason why the obsession with zero drop is a marketing gimmick gone awry.

Hi guys, I was curious about zero drop shoes and if there is any reason that they are better (for some people) in strengthening the legs & feet. I have been experimenting with some "barefoot" or minimalist shoes lately that have zero drop, but they are also very close to the ground, and I'm seeing some benefits in terms of my leg and foot strength. I'm curious how this might translate if I were to run in a cushioned zero-drop shoe like an Altra or a Topo? Thank you!

Drop doesn't matter too much to me. As you guys said: it depends on how the shoe reacts when hitting the ground. I combine zero drop minimalist Altra's for shorter runs, with 8mm drop maximalist Saucony's with carbon plate for longer runs; both mid-forefoot striking. It's the best of both worlds: Altra for that great road feel and Saucony when I'm going to feel the road too much. But no heel striking for me, gave me too much trouble when I started out running (took me 8 years to find out).

@1980fack1025 I'm seeing the same, as I've gradually gone from 12mm --> 10 --> 8 -- -->, my achilles issues have improved, my next step is 0 drop but plan to ease into it. I have very flexible lower extremities, including calf and achilles, and my theory is that with the higher drop shoes, my achilles was "bowing" forward. My pain and tenderness was always on the anterior side of the tendon about 1.5 - 2cm up from the insertion.

Tell me please about the mizuna benefits for knee pain

Does foot strike potentially offset loading patters of higher and lower drops? Do fore/mid foot strikers put more load on the calves and ankle, while heel strikers put more load on the knees and hips?

@coreyshields5071

9 ай бұрын

Good question. I’ve been curious about the relationships as well.

I tried the Torin 7 and ABSOLUTELY LOVED the feel and comfort of them… but I CAN’T do Zero-Drop right away… so a lot of us buy other shoes to take baby steps to get down to zero drop… I think it would be an absolute brilliancy if Altra came out with 5mm drop shoes for people that want to slowly move to Zero… a lot of us buy other shoes with lower and lower drops to eventually get to that point, but it would be super smart of them to have us buy their products instead of competitors… just a thought.

@roberttaylor5825

3 ай бұрын

The Fwd experience altra are around 4mm drop- they came out last year

Wouldn't the calves muscles always be active in a high high heel to toe drop shoe. I'm basing this on the premise that when you slightly raise your heel off the ground your calves engage. Also if you lift your foot off the ground then move the front of your foot down, they also engage (not as much).

@skateata1

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who owns 0mm drop shoes and 12mm drop shoes, the stress was less with the 12mm. I think because my quads were more engaged so I wasn't relying on the calves so much anymore. I land primarily on my heel no matter what I wear.

Loading pattern changes for me depending on pace. So slower requires lower drop. If I am pavcing faster i will not feel slamming on the heel with a high drop shoe.

You guys covered a lot of good stuff, but one thing that is overlooked is that shoe companies will sometimes just post incorrect specs for non-mainline models. Eg the fuel cell rebel v2 is 9mm drop, the novablast 2 is 14mm drop (measured independently at runrepeat).

@cookinginpawleys

2 жыл бұрын

It depends on measuring methodology. Is the shoe measured with or without a sock liner? Is the shoe measured under load or not? Running Warehouse states how they measure, but I have not seen any manufacturers state their methodology.

@smathew88

2 жыл бұрын

@@cookinginpawleysTo me, it appears asics is fudging the numbers for sales reasons. People might be freaked out if they found out the novablast 2 is 14mm drop, or the metaspeed sky is 2.5mm drop.

@cookinginpawleys

2 жыл бұрын

@@smathew88 i have the Sky and I would say it feels like it is more or less in the 4-6mm range, but I mostly walk in 0 drop and run in 4-6mm. I recall an interview with some of the Endorphin line who’s said they ultimately decided against the original 4mm drop because it was producing an effective 0mm drop under load in early prototypes.

The heel area on all my shoes is fresh ,regardless of the drop.

Seems to me that some shoes encourage me to run lightly, and I feel all the built in shock absorption of the body doing its job. This seems better to me than relying on a stack of foam to mitigate the impact of running with poor form.

My shoes are a 12mm drop and I still land on my heel. I feel fine.

@TheJaycal77

Жыл бұрын

High drops are designed for heal runners as it designed to use the heal more

The middle screen is distracting and adds nothing. Please stop using that gimmick.

Very mature…