as an asian person (japanese) i hear conversations about why some people (social media stars, kpop idols etc) are skinny and everyone justifies it as asian genetic thing. but no, some of us have thick thighs, some of us have a stomach, we’re not some magical species that doesn’t have fat and it upsets me so much.

@yelenasimp8838

2 жыл бұрын

As an asian woman too (filipino), people always think we're all short and petite. Like no💀

@flipfliplas

2 жыл бұрын

@@yelenasimp8838 your not?

@zelda37245

2 жыл бұрын

its understandable different ethnic groups have different bone structures and body fat distribution but at this point it just sounds like fetishization. i saw a woc on twitter talking about her weightloss and this guy legit replied saying "no ur black so u will be fat forever its ok tho embrace ur big black hips" and it honestly is just so disturbing how beauty standards are so harsh typically within east asia and women are supposed to fit into stereotypes of being "submissive and small"

@doggy9205

2 жыл бұрын

@@zelda37245 you phrased this so well. Thank you

@wolfsmaid6815

2 жыл бұрын

@@zelda37245 People are regularly surprised because I am an extremely shy, submissive person. Yet on the outside I´m a 6 ft. (1,85m) tall blue-eyed Valkyrie with broad shoulders and some extra muscles. I have had people go "what? you´re not shy, you just say that to get attention" or "you act submissive because you´re a pick me, that isn´t natural to you". It´s like your personality always has to match the stereotype of your appearance.

Input from a student in Korea: almost every single woman here has moderate to extreme body dysmorphia. And everyone thinks it's normal; every single person who's under the "average" umbrella, even if they're on the thinner side, believes they're fat; everyone who's underweight thinks they're average. It's perpetuated by social standards and labels, too, I think. The extra large clothing size for women's clothes in Korea roughly translates to a medium elsewhere, if that. People also don't hold themselves back from commenting on others' weight or how they look, which can contribute to the problem. As someone who's had these issues before, Korea sometimes seems like a very easy place to develop an eating disorder--and think nothing of it, because it's "normal."

@Honeyin2013

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not asian, but ever since I got interested in various asian cultures one thing I noticed they all shared in common was toxic weight standards. I think that's what keeps so many asian people on the thinner side; it's not that they are naturally smaller its just that they have to fit these standards. I know the sizes of clothes definitely don't help anyone who might feel insecure about their weight.

@funsizedi88

2 жыл бұрын

When I had a dress made in Japan, they wouldn't believe the measurements I gave them were correct. The lady said I was lying about my waist size because of my bust/hip size. I was a size 4, 34DD and 39-27-38 inches at 5'2". She got out her meausing tape and made me stand in my underwear in the shop. That was back in 2014 and I'll never forget it.

@DubsTV93

2 жыл бұрын

@@funsizedi88 I believe you. My prom dress was a traditional Oriental dress, handmade (my bf at the time was Chinese) and she (the tailor) kept on saying how "big" I was. I was 5ft tall and 100lbs. I left feeling DEVASTATED.

@funsizedi88

2 жыл бұрын

@@DubsTV93 omg I'm so sorry, I thought it was nuts at 24, I couldn't imagine as a teen. My ex snapped on the lady, told me she was extra rude because of my tattoos, but Jesus.

@SM-nm4cd

2 жыл бұрын

In America, I notice the opposite phenomena. I have always been on the heavier side, but everyone tells me I'm " healthy " and it ruins my perception.

The "hot girl summer" thing is sad also because "hot = thin" is not at all what Megan Thee Stallion meant when she started using it. It's supposed to be that a "hot girl" is the girl who doesn't let the worry of what others think of her stop her from having fun, letting loose, embracing joy and playfulness, no matter her size or looks.

@seamuskeavy6710

2 жыл бұрын

I’m rly glad that during summer time I was on a body positive side of tiktok and ‘hot girl summer’ was for everybody. I had no idea that the phrase was being used to promote a certain body type

@DD-po2hh

2 жыл бұрын

Ngl that’s weird because Megan is nowhere near thin but she’s thick. So why use her phrase.

@babeedoll1315

2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. Megan isn't music star "thin" and doesn't appear to aspire to be thin. Not sure why that phrase would start to take on that meaning. If you watch the video the women aren't big but they are built thin thick.

@melissasmall4284

2 жыл бұрын

Ya I was under the impression that hot girl summer was for body positivity and knowing your worth ie that looking a specific way isn't what gets you feeling like a hottie. Somewhat like the "bikini body" trend as in: you got a body? Put on a bikini, u got a bikini body" had no idea that it turned into a thin thing!

@isthataspider7410

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly!! Hotness is about confidence, not appearance.

As a slavic girl, I can fully confirm how toxic korean standards truly are. I've been to Seoul (right before the pandemy started) with my cousin as a form of holidays. Our main goal was to get to know the culture. Im not a party person, neither my cousin. I'd consider my weight and height ratio as fine, my BMI is also ok. I know my worth so I don't really care about other's opinion. But my cousin has such a low self esteem. It got worse when we went to a shop looking for some nice clothes. 2 girls came up to us... They were quite nice. They weren't that fluent in english but from what I understood they complimented our looks. But then.. one of them said sth to my cousin along the lines : "wow, you are so pretty. But you know what? You could be so much prettier if you lost some weight." I got so angry. She is not even chubby. What's wrong with them? It ain't a compliment.

@emma5332

2 жыл бұрын

äpio ok upp ja pilot

@kai0tfoool

2 жыл бұрын

Koreans think differently, different culture. I'd do more research on it to fully understand

@Alexandra-om2rc

2 жыл бұрын

@@kai0tfoool that's not a culture thing to offend others so stop excusing their behaviour. They're not privileged just because they're korean.

@Li_Tobler

2 жыл бұрын

@@Alexandra-om2rc думаю они имели в виду что культура общения в Корее действительно другая. Они более прямолинейны между собой, чем мы к тому привыкли, прямо-таки НАМНОГО. Для них в порядке вещей сказать подобное друг другу в лицо, а порой и пожестче. И справедливости ради, менять свою культуру и привычный устав вещей просто потому что так того захотелось западным туристам, они не обязаны

@lyondragons8898

2 жыл бұрын

In western world that would be crossing the line to comment someone's body and to say they weigh too much. Cultures are different. They maybe did harm, but probably did not mean to. It's totally normal to comment on people's looks in Korea. I've lived in ten different countries and 5 continents, and have learnt to cope with a lot of things that don't feel right to me. That's how it is to go to a different culture, some things are gonna feel really good and fun and some very wrong and hard to accept. Understanding where things come from, helps. Cause if you make a scene out of someone behaving perfectly fine for their culture while visiting in their culture, you are the one that's being a problem. There are some things, like human rights, that aren't that easily "just accept it" stuff, but in the end.. if you'd live in there you could introduce a new way of thinking to locals that are close to you or even tell them to not comment on your weight, people are allowed to have boundaries. But a tourist being rude about the culture of people whose country they visit.. just no. No, you do not judge it just bc it's not like in your country. Not when it's not meant mean way. In Korea, people comment on other people's looks and life all the time. You don't have to go there, if you don't want to.

it's not just kpop. South Korea in general has awful beauty standards. feminists in SK are actively fighting against this by refusing plastic surgery and refusing to wear makeup or diet in an extreme way. ive heard stories of women being refused housing and jobs just because of how they look. kpop idols just happen to be the face of it.

@lunaticBeth

2 жыл бұрын

It's not even just South Korea...is VERY muche the same in all asian countires...KPOP and so South Korea idols are just more internationally seen

@angiestalesfromwales1590

2 жыл бұрын

@@lunaticBeth I thought as much but I didnt want to mention it because I really don't know much about beauty standards in other Asian countries, besides the lotus feet in China. it's just dreadful.

@lunaticBeth

2 жыл бұрын

I had still like 10 years ago a very long chat with some Taiwanese friends on this topics, and obviously I cannot speak too much cause I have never lived there, also 15 years ago JPOP was a big thing (maybe I was in the niche idk lol but for me it was)...and it's pretty much the same in every country. The only thing that I see a lot as a difference but I could be wrong is plastic surgery which is like really "usual/normal" for koreans while for the other countries a little bit less...anyway the standards to women bodies inside the pop industries and out are very scary, kinda similar to western 90's super models era...I am sad for those girls AND boys who will be ruined for life by such influences :(

@roxxandra

2 жыл бұрын

reading through these comments is educational - this is wild

@tabularasa

2 жыл бұрын

Scrutiny of appearance and pursuit of some kind of "perfection" (big eyes, small face, long legs, pale skin) is embedded in Korean culture. I spent years living in both Korea and Japan, and I witnessed adults bullying each other in the workplace about body weight in both places, but the desire for unrealistic standards just seems most prevalent in Korea, even in the children. Have you ever noticed how many big, full length mirrors are hung on walls all over public places in Korea? So many mirrors. And people definitely use them, stopping to adjust their appearances on the subway platform or upon entering the shopping mall. I often thought about how being surrounded by mirrors can affect the way a person thinks about their identity and attractiveness. I worked with middle school aged kids (13, 14, 15) and it was a bit heartbreaking to hear how many of those girls wanted plastic surgery to correct their perceived flaws. They were only children. But this mindset is just deep in the culture. I would hear the students talk about dieting a lot, sometimes because of the influence of their peers, and sometimes because of their parents. In analyzing K-pop and its influence over all of this, I'd say it's certainly significant, especially for young people, presenting these incredibly slender, unrealistic figures as role models. That same face all the K-pop girls have is because of that facial bone contouring that Korean surgeons have become famous for. It's an obsession with the ideal western standard of beauty, but placed on a Korean face. It just doesn't make sense. I *love* strong, expressive, typically Korean features, and find them to be amazingly beautiful, but many Koreans are made to feel that their ethnic identity should be carved up and turned into something else deemed more acceptable. Anyway, it's been years since I lived there, but I still obviously have a lot of feelings about it. I think the overlap of K-pop followers and people struggling with ED is probably significant, and it's good that Dorian is pointing it out.

I've lived in Korea for almost 5 years. I've literally heard men ask each other how much their girlfriend weighs, and say things like "my girlfriend is 50 kilos now so she's disgusting". It's a literal shit-show. It has affected my relationship with food and self image severly.

@saralusiagiscanniculae8056

2 жыл бұрын

😳😳oh hell no

@mississipi1103

2 жыл бұрын

That's so sad... And that's what's sold to women ! I don't want to spend my whole time counting calories because my ugly stupid husband is mad that I don't look like a trophy wife anymore. People wants us to have this pathetic life and we don't want it. Like for real that's people's dream life ? The more I grow up the more I prefer to be a chubby fairy cottagecore living alone with her animals

@TwinsBigLikeTia

2 жыл бұрын

Even though America has obesity issues, I’m glad I can be a little curvy and still feel sexy. Not that I NEED validation from men to feel good about myself, but if your partner says some shit like that about your body, it’s going to do some damage.

@juliee593

2 жыл бұрын

@@mississipi1103 hell yeah you go feed the squirrels queen

@hepthegreat4005

2 жыл бұрын

50 kilos? I thought that was the goal. Less than that is like a child (I think)

Just look at the discourse around Somi...she's very defensive when people express concern over her health and brags about eating fatty food.

@donovanberes

2 жыл бұрын

The whole “scale” drama ?

@atamburlaine

2 жыл бұрын

Somi concerns me a lot!

@shochre6497

2 жыл бұрын

Love your channel

@ripitupbreakitdown

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@MochaxMatcha

2 жыл бұрын

@@SpecialBlanket your right, only a handful of idols have admitted to having an eating disorder. That usually comes with they are in recovery though. I feel so bad for IU. She told everyone honestly what she ate at her worst and it became the poster child of kpop diets.

It’s crazy how these idols start their careers at like 16 years of age, and are expected to stay the same weight and shape even when they grow into their twenties. A 23 year old woman cannot be the same size as she was 7 years ago when she was a literal child

@kaja4105

2 жыл бұрын

Yes absolutely!! I was always pretty thin but between my late teenage years (16-18) and my early twenties (20-23) I just gained 10 kg. I don't even look any different! It's just a part of growing up and actually living in an adult body/being an adult. It would simply not be possible for me to go back to that weight without disordered eating/ an ED. A grown ass adult just cannot/should not be compared to a literal child in terms of weight.

@madaffi2434

2 жыл бұрын

hello, it's not really true that you can't be the same size. I am the same size since I was around 15-16 (10 years ago). Don't speak for all women

@Lolly74079

2 жыл бұрын

@@madaffi2434 This is the case for most women. We usually finish developing by 16, development after that is due to being a late bloomer

@thegayestgoth

2 жыл бұрын

Your body changes in your 30’s and 40’s, too. Sometimes you shrink. You get food intolerances.

@raythunder8619

2 жыл бұрын

I mean you can but I'm a special case since I'm petite and can fit into little kids clothes still but on average yeah not everyone will fit their clothes after middle or high school.

I mentioned ED in therapy and my therapist basically asked if I'd lost my period yet. I said no and they wrote it off as "Then you're ok". And like... I'm not okay. My depression is better but the ED stuff still sucks.

@NeichaUnagi

2 жыл бұрын

@Casandra Espinoza I'm out of therapy for now as there are things I need to work on on my own. But it was kind of a slap in the face. I'm also anemic which feeds into depression and vice versa. It's a weird cycle 😔

@jazwhoaskedforthis

2 жыл бұрын

Wow get a new therapist if you can, that’s awful

@jazwhoaskedforthis

2 жыл бұрын

Report them that’s unacceptable

@SoulxSpectre

2 жыл бұрын

What a slap in the face for you indeed, and a betrayal of trust on the therapists part Imo. I'm sorry that happened to you, it was wrong. It sounds like you're working on things on your own for a bit but if you do return to therapy I hope you get a great person who really has the understanding and empathy for you that you deserve. I don't know you, but I am sending you so much love and good fortune for the future, you got this, and good luck out there!

@SuzanneDeniseB

2 жыл бұрын

That totally sucks. What an uneducated therapist. Im so sorry.❤

From someone who is Korean but grew up in America I’m so glad someone is talking about this. Korea in general is actually very fixated on having a perfect appearance. It’s not just K-pop, in South Korea it’s everywhere. On school campuses they have skincare stores, in convenience stores they have little drinks and snacks that make you full/not eat all day, skin lightening, streets of just cosmetic surgery and everyone is talking about appearances constantly. Having the best appearance is just engrained into your brain at a young age in Korea, it’s apart of the culture.

@ms.tammuz3834

2 жыл бұрын

@@electricfishfan7159 it's like American culture where almost everything is about looks. Except in the east they are a tad bit more extreme and the methods are different compared to the West and that's why it's more noticeable to westerners.

@Vyansya

2 жыл бұрын

What a vain country

@solus8685

2 жыл бұрын

@@Vyansya I wouldn't say vain, just perfectionistic

@not_obsidian

2 жыл бұрын

@@Vyansya like literally every other one lol

@NimsieWimsie

2 жыл бұрын

the world is just a dystopia cuz what the fuck.

I was on pro ana tumblr. I made an alt account out of curiosity to see whats going on on tiktok. It's genuinely terrifying. The tips they're giving will kill you, quickly. When I was on tumblr, the focus was always on how to achieve our unhealthy goals, but still be able to function/not die. These girls are so young too. They literally name their "diets" after idols or bands they like, pretty much saying you can achieve their body types by starving yourself enough, and that is the ultimate goal. I feel like the idols being so visible in their disordered habits has made some girls not realize how deadly ana can be. I feel like when I was on tumblr we where much more open about the negative effects, but tiktok pro ana stuff just shows the "positive" side/how amazing the idols look.

@avb.3023

2 жыл бұрын

I was on tumblr too and you’re right. People on there did say recovery was the best option and were much more real about the danger of ED’s. They indeed did try to stay alive for the most part despite their unhealthy behavior. I haven’t been on TikTok but what you’re describing sounds terrifying.

@ninapope2089

2 жыл бұрын

I go on tiktok alot and haven't come across any pro ana stuff, but then again I haven't really tried to look for it

@FTMothman

2 жыл бұрын

@@ninapope2089 sometimes you have to look for it, but sometimes it just pops up. Weird shit have popped up on my fyp countless times out of nowhere(ie creepy stuff about kids despite me only liking jojo or fashion content).

@heckno5128

2 жыл бұрын

I looked on there too I was curious. My goodness the stuff said 😰

@meatwad8016

2 жыл бұрын

honestly it isnt even that terrifying, yes its concerning but not terrifying. worst ive seen is someone saying they want to be a skinny gamer boy lol also tiktok isnt a reliable source for ed related stuff, most people are overly dramatic abt it

Kpop fueled my ED. Taeyeon from Girls Generation was always my thinspo. I had a boyfriend who lived in South Korea at the time. He always told me that he thought the kpop stars are kinda chubby. I was way bigger than the stars. I still can't get his voice saying that out of my head.

@mochimellow4188

2 жыл бұрын

Ch-chubby????

@dotexe6415

2 жыл бұрын

snsd fucked me up, they were big when i was a teenager/early 20s. i already had an ed, but they didn't make it any easier. how tf did your bf think that kpop idols are chubby????? even as someone severely anorexic, they are not chubby. i don't even look at them as chubby through my warped lens.

@dotexe6415

2 жыл бұрын

hyuna is really the only kpop star i follow, i know she's kinda vintage in kpop terms, i used to watch those videos she took of herself on the treadmilll in the gym. now she's admitted to having depression, panic disorder, and vaosvagal syncope, which is fun.

@mochimellow4188

2 жыл бұрын

@@dotexe6415 Cube ran her into the ground. She's getting healthier now but it's gonna take a long time for her to be ok again

@dotexe6415

2 жыл бұрын

@@mochimellow4188 that's good to hear. i worry about those girls.

I always got attacked when I brought up this issue within the K-Pop community. My good friend literally got angry with me bc I told her the reality that these idols go through. Thank you for bringing this up. It’s so important that people realize being a K-Pop idol or a celebrity in general isn’t all what it’s cut out to be.

@TwinsBigLikeTia

2 жыл бұрын

Idk why they can’t just look at the suicides and attempted suicides and know how toxic it is… and seeing their pre debut and seeing how much surgery they were most likely forced to get

@justafish9618

2 жыл бұрын

the denial and immaturity is strong with some people...

@DrBitchcraft.

2 жыл бұрын

People want to keep up the facade and their own ed

I feel a lot of K-Pop marketing is centred around parasocial relationships, which is why some branches of the fandom are so toxic. The idols feel like the boys/girls next door, just extremely beautiful, streaming, engaging in chats, etc. They have entire personas written out for them by their companies and while some most likely are quite genuine they often have to move within the frame of what their contract says. Now, if you're in puberty and/or feel misunderstood and lonely, it's quite tempting to use this parasocial world as an escape. In small doses, that can be beneficial, most people, myself included, have fictional comfort characters they adore and find joy in on dark days. But some people go too far, be it through developing an ED, be it by learning Korean for the sole purpose of wanting to track a certain band member down and marry them (this was an issue in my circle of friends and we are adults of various genders, so this isn't just an issue among small girls). I am not entirely sure if these companies actively want people to develop EDs, unless they have shares in enterprises that sell diet products, but they most definitely want people to develop a deep parasocial bond that isn't always healthy.

@Honeyin2013

2 жыл бұрын

This is EXACTLY what I felt when I started getting into Kpop in about 2016 when I was like 14. I felt like I had to be just like a Kpop idol if I wanted to be adored and fit in because all the Kpop idols I saw were loved so dearly by everyone around them. And them being in a group made it feel like if you could be like them you could also have a close knit group of friends as well

@MsElizaRae

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with this. I used to love kpop until I started seeing idols getting whole public death threats for being in a relationship or apologizing for getting married.

@everybodyhateschrismania7970

2 жыл бұрын

@@SpecialBlanket 😟

@potat19

2 жыл бұрын

This ties with something that bothers me so much about the kpop fandom: they infantilize their idols so much. I remember people getting their panties in a knot when Rosé had two buttons open in her shirt… Part of me feels like the idols end up developing an ED because that’s the only thing that they can control by themselves; all the other aspects of their life are controlled by their company and their obsessive fans. When I lost track of what was going on in my life I relapsed on my ED. I just felt like that was something that I had full control of and felt better after restricting or purging… I imagine that’s something that could be influencing these artists’ behavior.

@Laura-jx7il

2 жыл бұрын

You said it SO well, this is exactly what it is.

(Korean person) To answer or relay some of the information and questions you’ve brought up in this video… us, as a country, puts a lot of our focus and pride in our weight and height. Though companies say they don’t do this anymore, it was common practice for women, when they were up for a job position, would be analysed and judged depending on their height, weight, and looks. You could be more than qualified for a job and still be rejected during that time because your appearance did not match their criteria of a working woman. This was even about 10-12 years ago where it was going on. Because Koreans tend be naturally smaller framed, due to the genetic disposition, it is extremely easy, if not naturally, to be skinny. But the weights I see a lot of young girls trying to achieve, at that point, it’s not natural. My, and other’s perception of what a normal, healthy, body should look like has been so drastically warped by societal norms that I have to physically force myself to step back and realise these bodies are not a viable option for any of us. Although I am Korean, I’m also half European, which meant I was born with a bigger frame and a taller body. Although I am not overweight, nor underweight, I’m an average looking body in the west, if anything I’d be dubbed as reasonably slim. I find the remarks I get on my body follow a trend. “Oh you’re not fat, you’re just tall”, “I think if lost another 5kgs you could become an idol”, “You’re too tall”. It’s a lot of passive aggressive, yet almost jealous like comments, and it’s not just for me. Korea has a huge jealousy problem, an envy culture, which is what hugely boosts this eating disordered mind set. People want to look like everyone else. Korea likes to follow trends, ie; trench coats were a huge thing a few years back. It was harder to find people who weren’t wearing them, than there were people who were. The need to fit into the crowd is so overly important to our culture, rebels do not survive, rarely. It’s also really common to compare weights and heights in Korea, even with men, it’s almost like a greeting to state them.

@XsunnyEunhae12

2 жыл бұрын

Wow this is fucked

@thiramshetty3421

2 жыл бұрын

This is so upsetting

@gimmeyourankles

2 жыл бұрын

Bruh??? As someone who takes pride on being the "odd one out" this is really sad... nothing wrong with fitting in the crowd but doing it by fear of rejection is so fucked and sad

@aprotista

2 жыл бұрын

You nailed it. I’m a Korean American and it’s always so disheartening to visit my family in Korea and see them perpetually running in this envy rat race. And EVERY time I visit, someone one will tell me that I would look better with surgery here, surgery there… and they wonder why I don’t visit often.

@xeternalflowerx1978

2 жыл бұрын

These diets were only designed to help people lose weight not to be a permanent solution for maintaining weight. BMI competitions are frightening, its like the pain Olympics

I am half korean and I've genuinely really struggled trying to reconcile dealing with both korean and US expectations of beauty. I was called "skinny" and "thin" by my friends at school but then I would go home and constantly be berated for being too fat. My mom sent me to Korea for a summer as a kid, and my cousin called me by the name "fat pig" my entire visit. Again, I was on the lower side of healthy weight and have been in the underweight-normal range my entire life. Total bullshit. I genuinely feel so sorry for any woman in Korea that is overweight because it must have been 10 times worse.

One idol literally posted her weight in her ig story, praising the weight loss in such a short of time . She was definitely underweight for her height. But that is not the problem she just lost the weight for the new song she released this year just to fit into the industry standards. People got mad and attacked her on social media for the post but the biggest problem for me was how her „manager“ and pr team handled the situation. They literally made her post some pics on ig where she eats a hamburger, as if this post cured her ed behavior and shows the world and her fans „look guys she is eating, she is NOT starving herself!“😶

@blu3367

2 жыл бұрын

literally, it is so sad apparently she even had to get an iv because she was so malnourished

@X_m19

2 жыл бұрын

@@blu3367 Right!! That is so sad I hope somi gets help. She is awesome the way she is and was

@mina0653

2 жыл бұрын

@@blu3367 there was a post by an insider from the industry that said that 90%of idols are one step away from collapsing on stage bc they're so starved, most kids need to take IVs (apparently it's not so uncommon in sk) during their promotions. The insider called them the walking dead, it was heartbreaking

@lidiabidia105

2 жыл бұрын

I was so freaked out when i saw that post, she was around my weight but soooo much taller and even accounting for like bone density it was drastic

@X_m19

2 жыл бұрын

@@mina0653 if this is true people should stop listening and promoting the kpop industry just because of these reasons.don’t get me wrong I love all the kpop groups they are so talented and nice People but they don’t deserve this as much as young impressionable children don’t deserve this trauma (ed, body dismorphya, strict rules that can lead to death…) They (the idols) should set a statement like hwana.

Korean dramas have this caveat as well. I found myself drawn to Korean entertainment and how it encouraged weight loss and having a thin body and a pretty face. Thank you for addressing some of this

@_Chessa_

2 жыл бұрын

This was a huge issue for me too. K dramas really idolize the very very thin look and I would try to copy the regime back in 2016 of how one Drama the main character didn’t eat, she only ate thin noodles while getting told she is overeating them. And for white European girls that want that look, we really cannot achieve it unless we have dramatic surgeries and huge weight loss that could make us sick or worse... So I very much agree to this. K-dramas were the big push for me to stop eating anything but water and soup and seaweed as well as exercising excessively. That was it. I got really sick but bounced back. I’m overweight I feel now; but 140 lbs is better than being sickly and unable to do anything lol

@yespls4184

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately this is sort of the reason I've never been able to get into K Dramas or KPop.. there are some fantastic Korean filmmakers/showrunners/entertainers, but the harsh beauty standards have always kind of turned me off of it.

@cloudsaro4509

2 жыл бұрын

like in weightlifting fairy kim bok joo! it’s my favorite kdrama of all time but bok joo is encouraged to loose weight to be liked but she was already thin and had a great body.

@Imaginaryproblems

2 жыл бұрын

My boyfriend and I love watching k drama together but almost all the main characters are super thin. We are watching one right now with a chubbier character who is best friends with the main character (and the main character puts down a lot of food too which is actually nice to see that she eats good) and its the only k drama i have watched that isn't super triggering. Its actually the ONLY one that I've watched and haven't gotten triggered in every episode by. The holidays are the hardest time of year for me and I am terrified. After Thanksgiving I go downhill and the only thing that helps is meal preping for myself with the most vitamin and nutritional foods I can fit in a bento box. And I hope that the stuff we watch doesnt make it worse, I actually plan on talking to him about it.

@xristinas2767

2 жыл бұрын

Yes me too

As a kpop fan here are some things we can do to help fight this bad trend: - don't comment on idols weight. at all. not even 'she looks so healthy'. Instead, focus on their signing, dancing, and other talents. - dont speculate on idols plastic surgery - do not share or spread any information about idols weight, workout routines, or diets - unfollow or block anyone who posts toxic content. - POLITELY point out to anyone posting this type of content that it could be causing harm. - support idols who are breaking beauty standards and refusing diets.

@thepriceofsalt9003

2 жыл бұрын

THIS!

@cheap2402

2 жыл бұрын

Please give this more likes people!!! Especially the first part. People think they are complimenting an idol for being a "healthy weight" but honestly it just skinny shames other idols + we don't actually know whether or not they have healthy eating habits just because they look the part. It's best to not talk about their weight at all to remove the emphasis on a person's weight.

@user-um7tw6kx4r6

2 жыл бұрын

you can do all that if you want lol, but don't act like everybody has to do it too

@pri.sci.lla.

2 жыл бұрын

Agree except for the plastic surgery. It’s ok for people to point out the obvious changes in people’s faces.

@the_sky_is_blue_and_so_am_I

2 жыл бұрын

Boost!

When you started talking about how many of the young kids on ED forums had a background in gymnastics, ballet, etc., that fucking hit. I was very much engulfed in the world of gymnastics before my ED, and I donated my leo just this year actually, because I couldn’t hardly breathe when I saw it. But what you said about the impact of role models in those sports also stuck with me. I’m so happy that young people, specifically young girls, have better role models to look up to now. Simone Biles I think is a good example, and I think we need more body positive, mental health positive influences in these sports.

@avb.3023

2 жыл бұрын

That one hit me too. I have a background in ballet and that definitely pushed me into my ED. I’m very sorry gymnastics did that to you.

@cactiired3140

2 жыл бұрын

@@avb.3023 Me too. Ballet drove me to my ED and I got diagnosed when I was 12. Quit at 15 when I just couldn't take it anymore and all my love for dance had been drained by my ED and looking back ballet was honestly just holding me back in recovery. Now at 18 I try to avoid anything to do with it at all costs because it's a huge trigger. My body was never good enough and will never be good enough in my eyes if I view it through the lense of my past dancer self.

This is kind of off topic, but just when they were talking about most people with eating disorders not being underweight, it made me think of this... I was going to CAHMS because of my autism and then they realised I had an ED. I was constantly weighed and given access to a dietician (which was actually helpful for me), but as soon as I reached 'normal' weight I was discharged and I was never once given therapy for anything. I was really really mentally sick and unsurprisingly I had a massive relapse and I didn't even realise it. I'm thankfully much better now and am like 90% recovered, but I had to give myself therapy basically. You're not magically cured if you reach 'normal' weight and a literal mental health service should know that!!

@nohemizamudio1208

2 жыл бұрын

@@im_bobby_mom Wait how?! That's scary

@M13C7

2 жыл бұрын

So much Yes. I wish i could like several times. First of all im glad you recovered well, and i wish you good luck on your journey

@amcvart9839

2 жыл бұрын

@@freyaeliza0 Awww no. I wish I could offer some useful advice but I genuinely don't know what. Eventually I paid for a therapist and it really helped, but it's super expensive and lots of people wouldn't be able to afford it.

@amcvart9839

2 жыл бұрын

@@M13C7 It's so hard and I really don't think the people who are there to help fully understand in many cases. I really hope you get better because you deserve to 💖

@martielupin1981

2 жыл бұрын

CAMHS has fucked so many people over

i've never gotten into k-pop but i have worried about how much the idols must exercise to learn all their dance routines, and how thin/toned they are (no matter their gender). i figured that to physically be able to exercise that much and not get totally exhausted you'd have to eat a shitton of food, but if they're is also under pressure to stay very slim then they're probably not doing that.

@LilUFO9499

2 жыл бұрын

Most have a diet with a heavy caloric deficit (just look at those who eat 3 bananas a day, or 3 chicken breasts a day only, or the diet that consists of eating boiled eggs and sweet potatoes only etc..). The diets are usually never over 1000cal, from what I saw it's often between 600cal and 900cal. Horrible and super under the normal amount for people who exercise and train and perform on stage so much. These poor hard working idols are literally being mentally and physically hurt and abused by their managers to look the way they do. Many are unhappy and a lot of them get ankle injuries and such and perform badly sometimes because they just do not have the energy to perform with how little they eat and how much they exercise. K-pop industry and Idol industry in general is harmful af and high key encourages people to develop eating disorders to look like an unattainable goal.

@luiysia

2 жыл бұрын

it's just baffling. you think they'd be able to dance better if they ate more food but they starve them all! especially the girls - i've heard stories of male idols in training who buy meat and sneak it back to the female dorms where the girls cook it on their curling irons

@AM12399

2 жыл бұрын

@@luiysia oh god :( in a (kind of twisted) way that's very sweet of those male idols, they sound like good friends. BUT it's AWFUL that they're put in that position to begin with. their working conditions sound absolutely terrible and abusive

@peachxtaehyung

2 жыл бұрын

Things are getting better lately as far as dieting and how much they're allowed to weigh! They still usually dance alot to learn their choreography and do concerts and stuff but they're not as busy now in their schedules and alot of idols show themselves live eating alot of food as much as they want to eat. Also idols like hwasa from mamamoo is thicker compared to alot of idols and has felt no pressure to change and eats what she likes. Hope this helps 💜

@peachxtaehyung

2 жыл бұрын

@@LilUFO9499 that is just in the more extreme cases especially nowadays. Nowadays that's usually not the case

Idols have no privacy once they hit the debut stage. They become a character of themselves, a caricature. I believe that the releasing of the idols height/weight statistics are for the fans to feel closer to the idols. Once idols debut, they become a product

I also always think how "funny" it is that kpop fans immediately assume that their idols just have a fast metabolism. Whenever they see their idol eating they say stuff like "Ugh i wish I had her metabolism" ik that they def can have a fast metabolism but not every single idol especially when you hear about what's going on in that industry and what they are doing to the artists to keep them thin.

@shamidkpzd

2 жыл бұрын

Kpop fans are in denial about it tbh. A lot of international fans will be like "oh she's just naturally skinny, you're body shaming her!" Like no, she dropped an unhealthy amount of weight in a very short time frame and clearly is not eating, but ok.

@suicideluv

2 жыл бұрын

I heard somewhere that starving yourself actually slows your metabolism, no clue if it's true, but the point that these girls don't stay thin naturally still stands.

@dk_whattoputhere10

2 ай бұрын

exactly lmao like they think every super skinny idol just has a fast af metabolism I remember seeing a vid describing wonyoung after her extreme weight loss and some people were asking if she was ok and some mfs were saying "omg stop skinny shaming she is just blessed with a fast metabolism" like girl what 💀

@Blackpill149

Ай бұрын

​​​@@dk_whattoputhere10They don't have the brain to realize that if these idols suddenly gain 12 pounds from just eating healthy then they can't have fast metabolism.They must be on strict diet.These fans are delusional and think every anorexic idols have fast metabolism 😂😂😂 and calls them foodies just because they ate full plate once in a staged reality show. also they believe a genetically born skinny or fat person can't be deficient with such confidence as if they are doctors or studied nutrition themselves. They always act like health expert

As someone who struggles with disordered eating (not diagnosed so I’m not putting a label on it) I know I have personally seen a lot of Kpop thinspo and have idolized their bodies as the “ultimate goal” I am 100% Northern European and my logical brain knows that I will never be extremely thin, but seeing thin girls promoted as the ultimate thin triggers my disordered brain into falling back into those thoughts. I’m not anti-kpop but I am against idolizing their figures.

@334...4

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's probably the most uncomfortable part for me. I know that even if I don't eat I won't be beautiful like them and I won't have such thin legs. But ,because of how idolized they are I almost want to starve myself sometimes. It also makes me really insecure about my skin color. And I'm white af?! Shit's wild. But then I whack myself back to a more conscious state and just go on as I am rn. I need to lose some weight ,but I still wanna weight at least 65kg, because I feel and look the best at that weight. I wanna stay healthy and and I will because my genes are fucking me over anyway

@sonnyragdc5432

2 жыл бұрын

You don't need a diagnosis for disordered eating, if it becomes a long term habit to over manage what you eat or you starve or you go periodically to get rid of what you ate in the bathroom while worrying too much about your image and weight... You're already in :( But what's important is that you can get out of that life style at your own pace 💖

@katherinebrilowski

2 жыл бұрын

@@SpecialBlanket I totally agree with you, just that from the research I’ve done I don’t really fit in to a particular disorder and my symptoms align mostly with the umbrella term “disordered eating” So I guess in that way, I have labeled it myself

@MissSchnickfitzel

2 жыл бұрын

I used to be the same. Nowadays i have accepted the fact that all my european ancestors were thicc as hell and had wide hipbones and big boobs like me. Literally any old depiction of brunhilde shows her as this very curvy wide hipped woman. Its somehow hard to accept. No clue why. I know men like it. Yet i think if i was thin things would be better lol

@astrobees

2 жыл бұрын

So true. My family were Irish farmers so I’m naturally very broad-shouldered, broad-chested and have big thighs and wide hips. I remember the first time I tried on a dress I thought would fit perfectly, only for it be too tight around my chest. I was so devastated, and began a really unhealthy diet that led to disordered eating. Which was super weird, since I don’t find weight unattractive in the slightest on girls that aren’t me, but that’s what body dysphoria does ig. I’ve long realized that there’s nothing I can do about genetics, but a part of my brain seems to have not gotten the memo and whispers “fat” every time I look in the mirror. Sucks, bro.

Kpop kind of works as a "permission" to be very thin because its a big trend setting industry. I used it as a excuse to stay thin and still do. Edit: also, it really grinds my gears to read so many girls make excuses for there extremely thin kpop idols like "____ is naturally thin, leave her alone!! I eat so much and still don't gain weight!!".... I've been underweight and anore**c for 20 years now, Im almost 30, ... no these girls are not naturally thin to that level, they restrict huge amount of calories and exercise a lot. Look, I KNOW, I used to do modelling in korea and would hangout with some people from the entertainment industry. It is not natural or healthy at all. These fans just want an excuse to stay unhealthy. If, lets say, Lisa was eating closer to 2500-3000 calories, she would absolutely gain weight and we would see it in her physique and muscle mass. I wish these fans would stop and reflect because what are they fighting for? For the ridiculously dangerous standard to exist and have power? Dont they see that them defending these standards, they are forcing their idols to develope unhealthy relationshio with body and food. Did they forget IU's skeleton diet? Also, like I said I'm VERY thin even in asian sizing and my korean girlfriends would still point out if I look fuller somedays, pinch the "fat" and even call their friends in front of me. There's a sense of glee to see others "failing" in beauty and people compete a lot with this. Most of my friends have an ed ffs. Love S.korea but f their beauty standards. It's killing them.

@luca6394

2 жыл бұрын

oof absolutely… it’s ridiculous how people are trying to excuse their idols being treated like that…

@janedoex1398

2 жыл бұрын

Hello unknown internet user. I'm 42 almost 43 though looking younger- as I 've been told- because I stopped my hormones almost 3 decades ago.... I wish you well from I guess across the globe. 💜 Austria.

@everybodyhateschrismania7970

2 жыл бұрын

Wells Lisa gained weight tho

@DrBitchcraft.

2 жыл бұрын

@@everybodyhateschrismania7970 haven't kept up with her, just remembered a conversation with some girls couple years ago. Great if she has!

@ars4696

2 жыл бұрын

@@everybodyhateschrismania7970 yeah she gained a little bit and got fatshamed for even that (just appearing a little bit curvier on the waist in a pic btw) and now seems back to her prev weight. People are hypocrites...

an idol from a group I'm into has publicly revealed that her company made her eat ONE ICE CUBE a day for a week to loose enough weight before debut. its sickening. she talked about how she was scared to go to sleep bc she wasn't sure if she'd wake up. it's so sad to hear.

@ambi_yam

2 жыл бұрын

That's Momo from Twice, isn't it? I'm a casual Once, and hearing that recently made me feel sick 😢.

@noteithne1694

2 жыл бұрын

@@ambi_yam yeah :-( it was really shocking hearing it for the first time

My 8 year old is in elementary school in Korea and has learnt at school that 'white rice makes you fat, purple rice keeps you thin' and already hears messaging about the need to exercise to keep slim (particularly last year when school was online, and the school program included occasional exercise videos) You can't really go anywhere in Korea without screens full of kpop girls and surgically enhanced celebrities in full view. It's a hard environment to grow up with a healthy (I mean in terms of mentally) body concept. It's sad that the globalisation of kpop means these extremes are being exported to everyone else. Not that these ideals or pressures are new, but definitely idols contractually adhere in a way that prob goes beyond what can be expected in the west

on the companies sharing idols’ statistics, often the numbers are exaggerated or made up. Korea (and some eastern countries like China) have an idea that 50kg/110lbs is the threshold of what women should weigh and any more, even if you are a tall woman, you are fat. This is the case of the Miss Korea beauty pageant winner who was 53kg and was called fat despite being super tall. There was a cruel tv show that tricked female idols into preforming on a scale to show their true weight and most of them are above the public weight measurement, so companies are lying to make their idols appear to “not be fat” (not be above 50kg) and that’s setting a number for other people to see.

@samara.morgan

2 жыл бұрын

It's so toxic. I weigh around 53kg and it's a normal weight for me but I'm almost 160cm tall, I would be a fat pig for them 🤣

@DrBitchcraft.

2 жыл бұрын

Yuuuup.... reason why I had a bmi of 15/16 in korea as an adult woman 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

@chatnoir9038

2 жыл бұрын

@@samara.morgan Same!

@pumpkin3881

2 жыл бұрын

175 cm woman here, i will legit die with 50kgs of weight. Its even unhealthy for shorter girls not going to lie. Even in such weight there is no way these people will look good because they will lack muscles (no way you're having muscles at 50kgs unless youre naturally petite) and probably have health issues

@Cybele09

2 жыл бұрын

Eh... weighting at random time isn't the best to determine someone's weight. We fluctuate quite a lot during a day.. between meals (+food weight), clothes (+weight), drinks (+weight) and bathroom visits (-weight) I range a good 2-4kgs from morning to night. Not to say that companies don't lie, but even if they put the weight down a little, they most certainly put the height up a little as well, evening out the balance more or less.

It's not really an issue with K-Pop culture or people who enjoy k-pop music in my opinion, especially for the westerner k-pop fan, it's an issue with Asian culture in general. Japanese and Korean culture I can speak for as i've seen Japanese and Korean netizens criticize very skinny/starved looking idols on forums and calling them too fat when they were just skin and bones. The issue is that these cultures aren't into looking normal skinny or average and they will criticize every single idol for basically not looking starved. They think the thinner you are the healthier/hotter/better you are. There are channels dedicated to talking about the struggles of Idols and how they fell into developing EDs because of the diets they were imposed by their manager on top of the rigorous daily exercising and training they receive. People who also popularize these diets (like i remember at a time there was a very popular trend of trying out K-pop Idol diets most notably the IU diet or Jenny diet, there was one that literally was to eat only 3 chicken breasts a day, for a grown adult man who should consume at least 1800cal a day, especially for one who's exercising/training daily) by making them a challenge and showing results of extreme weight loss are part of the issue as well. In Japan you will get bullied by your boss/coworkers/friends if you are not skinny as well, and they will say that it is "out of worry" for you when it is actually out of worry for themselves because they do not want to have a fat person in their circle of acquaintances/colleagues/friends. Companies in japan will not hire overweight people becayse they don't want for them to be representing them. Which leads to people overworking themselves to be extremely skinny to be well seen. Being a k-pop Idol is destructive for the mind of these Idols. Most of them at the beginning look already thin and relatively toned. But that's only during their training to become an idol. Once they begin their careers in groups you always see them losing around 10lbs extra and looking pale and more sickly than when they were just training to become Idols. Idol companies, managers, they are evil. This idol system is just disgusting and Idols are only used and abused by them until they get thrown out once the idols are too old/not popular enough anymore. And i don't even want to talk about the amount of sexual abuse and harrassment female idols go through as well.

@luiysia

2 жыл бұрын

asian beauty standards are insanely toxic. i genuinely think asian americans are better off mostly ignoring it, even though there is so little representation of asians in american pop culture, because the beauty standards of modern asian culture are MUCH more strict, specific, and arguably even more eurocentric than american beauty standards.

@triciam4798

2 жыл бұрын

Omg 😱!!!

@staceyfeaver5721

2 жыл бұрын

@@triciam4798 I live in Japan and I can agree. everyone here wants to be as thin as possible and no one knows what a healthy and unhealthy BMI is. I hear the guys talk all the time how dating a chubby girl is impossible and they want a girl that's skinny ( which is generally an unhealthy level of skinny) basically the lower the BMI is the better except they also want a girl with big boobs (eye roll). When my friends want to lose weight they eat as little as possible as because that's what is advertised here as the best way to lose weight. Not enough nutrition? don't eat just chew on this vitamin candy. It's honestly scary. Traditionally girls are supposed to look fragile, like they need to be taken care of. That's what was considered attractive historically so I think that's where it originally came from but yeah honestly terrifying.

@HanajimaSensei

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, when I was having an internship in Japan there was this one guy I worked with who was a bit overweight. Every time we had dinner with our boss it went like: Boss: "You like this food, and the beer as well, yes?" Coworker: "Yes, I like them." Boss: "He likes food and beer a lot, and that's why he's so fat, haha." Coworker: "Yep. Haha." It was so uncomfyyyyyyyy.

@luiysia

2 жыл бұрын

@@staceyfeaver5721 hmmm idk about japan but in china at least the traditional beauty standard is actually thick plump women with double chins 😂

Let me tell YOU!! I'm 27 I've been a kpop fan since I was 14. My self esteem, being a curvy bodied Black woman, was all in shatters. Especially as a girl who loves boy groups and me thinking my idol will think I'm ugly unless I look like 90 pound Asian woman. I've come to terms with my own self image and I no longer have the desperate need to be accepted by idols but I STILL feel insecure watching Black Pink or Twice since my frame is naturally more broad and they're considered so beautiful in the media I consume.

@cutefluffball

Жыл бұрын

U need to grow up sweetie

I saw a female kpop group in person at a convention several years ago. Since it was a small concert, I got to go up and meet them up close. They were the tiniest people I have ever seen, and not just because they were petite. Young me, who was already suffering with an ED, couldn't help but to compare myself with these young women who had most likely had surgery, aggressive training, and poor nutrition to get that way.

I love kpop and think it is awful what the idols go through. It's not just the females either. It's ALL kpop idols.

@bubbybets9336

2 жыл бұрын

women*

@nskfsr

2 жыл бұрын

@@bubbybets9336 It's "females" because they implied female idols (female ones) but didn't use the word idol in that sentence but by seeing the next sentence someone can clearly understand what's being said.

@bubbybets9336

2 жыл бұрын

@@nskfsr the idols are women

@thorafoster-bill1919

2 жыл бұрын

@@nskfsr who is “he” ?

@unrequin4805

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t say female it is dehumanizing to women. It is a term coined by men to refer to women as cattle. Do NOT contribute to the misogyny of men. At all.

I'm black and remember a mainstream show showing a clip Beyonce and saying "bootylishious or just fat", this stuck with me, so seeing the mainstream pushing teeny tiny SE Asian women goals is scary. Normal both does and doesn't exist, it's normal for different people to look different, it's also normal to not fit in the clothes you wore as a schoolkid 10 years later.

@OhWanya

2 жыл бұрын

O felt so bad that I couldn't wear anymore clothes from when I was 16 years old.... I'm 24 lol! I'm not fat I just grew from my teenage body!

@LilLadyAy

2 жыл бұрын

@@OhWanya same, I was out of some of my favourite sentimental clothes at 21, things I'd bought a few years back upon earning. It's sad that some of these people are snapped up very young and are being weighted regularly, change is natural, growth in height stopping doesn't mean you're not still developing. Someone over 25 who has been slim their whole life is probably still bigger/heavier than they were at 18.

@sonnyragdc5432

2 жыл бұрын

I am not black but when I saw Beyonce the first time... I felt happy she had a body that looked healthy, i was a little girl in the early 2000's and having a big butt was something to be bullied for... Even as an 8 year old Beyonce made me feel happy about the body type i was born with tbh

@LilLadyAy

2 жыл бұрын

@@sonnyragdc5432 good! It was the same for me, nothing stood out as fat to me, she looked like people in my family and I had a big butt too since childhood, still I remember seeing this and thinking 'is this what people think?', then I began realising that many older people in my family didn't like the way they looked and it generally boiled down to how clothes fit, compared their sizing to others and thinking they were fat when they weren't (they look back on pictures and realise this). Sad how off the cuff remarks and not realising that one size doesn't fit all can damage people so much.

@LilLadyAy

2 жыл бұрын

@@SpecialBlanket I remember it like it was yesterday, it was on one of the terrestrial channels when said track came out, they played a clip from the video and zoomed right up her backside as they posed the question. Still sad that there are people that still don't know about certain builds being common within certain races.

I found a rather obscure, but newer youtube video of a clearly young girl [13-14] trying the Somi diet, where a kpop idol named Somi Jeon- who is 5'7" and less than 110lbs, and posted this fact on instagram - was quoted saying she lost the weight by eating one banana for breakfast, lunch and dinner. So it was this young girl making a video about how she tried eating only 3 bananas a day and only lasted a few days, etc. There were comments of other young people talking about their experiences trying this diet too and how it gets easier after a couple of days. It is absolutely horrifying to see direct proof that these kpop idols are directly CAUSING young girls to pick up diets of only a few hundred calories per day. Which is suicide.

@michelleandtim354

2 жыл бұрын

She’s actually 5’8” and around 100 lb. it’s very scary.

@juliavalencaschoen2234

2 жыл бұрын

Hey guys you probably shouldn't leave these numbers here

@nikemaraje5

Жыл бұрын

​@@juliavalencaschoen2234 this is literally a video about anorexia and triggers lmao

@angelicdreamssubliminals1656

21 күн бұрын

​@nikemaraje5 yeah but displaying an extremely underweight weight and height without warning in a section where they're probably a lot of people in ED recovery is not that safe

On a more positive note, this is why I love Hwasa from Mamamoo. She absolutely REFUSED to diet no matter how much her company pushed her to until eventually they gave up on trying to convince her. She gets a lot of hate for her body, but I honestly think idols like her will change the extreme body standards for kpop, little by little.

@hannahmew9194

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely people never mention how many idols try to change the industry from within and it is thanks to them we have things like mental health hiatuses and 7 year contracts

@shanlieart

2 жыл бұрын

She didn't refuse, she just couldn't stick to it. Hwasa even said she struggles with binge eating on Life Bar. Luckily for her Korea loves her mukbang and living alone shows, even her solos are more famous than lots of mamamoo comebacks so she got a free pass by the company.

@justsomerandomfangirl6084

2 жыл бұрын

@@shanlieart not only that but she had to lose 30 lbs to even debut

@babymilksnatcher

2 жыл бұрын

it has worked, seemingly, as RBW's new group Purple Kiss are known for not pushing diets. Maknae Swan has a huge chest that would qualify her as fat in Korean standards (though anywhere else in the world, she'd be envied by all women lol), but she hasn't been forced to diet.

You should watch this informational kpop video called “Please don’t blame the girls”. It focuses on how many female idols’ companies force them to stay at a low weight, threatening to kick them out of the company if they gain weight, forbidding them from ever having a weight that starts with 5 (50kg+) no matter how tall they are, idols having to sneak food and eat in the washroom behind their managers back, etc. it’s very heartbreaking

it's funny because idols will get down to a certain weight and then they're still forced to pad their hips/chests so even though they're super slim, they have a womanly shape that "men find attractive". it also means that people who are trying to look like them never will because its not real. the industry has been getting better of the last couple of years, but that doesn't mean that it's good yet. swan from purple kiss is an example of an idol that is soooo beautiful, but isnt skinny like most of the other girls. unfortunately you see a lot of people online bullying her relentlessly because of it.

@Cybele09

2 жыл бұрын

I think that's an important point that most people skip over. It isn't that they starve and achieve the "dream" body..they starve and then pad their way to a dream silhouette which is highly unlikely to be natural. Butts and boobs are fat.. if you achieve a low body fat to have a flat stomach it's really unlikely that the boobs stay.

@mariakiwi1428

2 жыл бұрын

@@Cybele09 true and padding is literally so common that most kpop stans don’t know it’s happening. One of the best examples is Jenny, who even tho she has a very nice natural figure that would not fall in the dangerously underweight spectrum, still uses pads and fans go and put her on this massive pedestal a of the perfect body and I’m just like????? Do we need to label people like that? Why can’t they just say that she has a fit body that’s proportionate for example? This would also lift the pressure she has to obtain a bodyshape that is not natural to her.

@babymilksnatcher

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like RBW leave Swan be because she's one of the tallest members, and she's likely to keep growing. No matter her weight, she will stand out from the rest of the girls.

Starvation diets are so normalised in Korea as the "standard" form of weight loss. Celebrities openly discuss only eating sweet potatoes on television, and it's not shocking to people when you hear, "Oh we're eating xyz food for dinner at the restaurant we're going to tonight so I didn't eat all day!" It was so ingrained into my mind that to lose weight or "be healthy", you had to have some level of starvation involved. My best friend developed severe anorexia in highschool but I saw nothing wrong with it in the beginning while people were starting to worry. I even gave her tips I read in Korean magazines to curb hunger, which really horrifies and disgusts me now. I honestly had no idea how toxic and pervasive diet culture is in Korea until my late teens.

I am Korean. Whenever I go to my relatives house they constantly talk about height, weight, etc. Everyone in Korea is obsessed with how they look and the beauty standards there are awful. I don’t do a lot of the stuff that people usually do for beauty there and it has made me really insecure. I am bigger than other Koreans and that also contributes to it. When I was a child, my relatives always commented about how my face looked and my body looked. They didn’t have any bad intent but it constantly made me depressed as a child.

Finally somebody acknowledged how people in the ed,, community? (not sure what to call it really) but they always say they're not pro, then post their threads of tips and have their stats in their bios, like they must not know what being pro is because they're like the textbook definition of pro ana, it's so frustrating and NOBODY acknowledges it, and if you do say you're pro ana you get canceled so fast on like ed twt or ed tumblr--

@marproperty1

2 жыл бұрын

basically everyone on edtwt is pro ana it's just morally correct to say you're not yk?

@anjie3048

2 жыл бұрын

its madness tbh because their community being on a super public and mainstream platform as twitter really makes eds so accessible without any triggers or nothing

@Hellakiddie

2 жыл бұрын

“Not pro just tagging pro” was the worst I could t stand it

@everybodyhateschrismania7970

2 жыл бұрын

@@anjie3048 actually not really. You have to type Ed twt to get to Ed twt

@echomae1814

2 жыл бұрын

@@everybodyhateschrismania7970 if looking for accounts solely dedicated to ed content, sure. but theres a high chance you’ll discover ed content through kpop. (on any social media, not talking abt twitter specifically) because accounts/posts are quickly removed by bots if they write things like “pro/an/a”, (uncensored, idk if youtube removes it lol) and are reported by others if admitting to being such, ed accounts are becoming much less obvious. and in kpop communities there are tons of people who post ed-related content on what appear to be normal stan accounts. theres always new language being developed to escape censors that would also escape the minds of others. red flags like obscure references, visuals and memes wont be immediately recognized. and kpop fans, many of them young girls, who are obsessing over thin celebrities, are already at risk for developing body image issues. so seeing this content without seeking it is a big issue.

It's so good that you're addressing this! It's really concerning that people take the body of idols as a goal that they want to achieve. I've been into kpop for years and it's so sad to see that the Idols have to be that thin and that (especially young) girls want to ’achieve’ it too. It’s sadly a toxic industry

@PeachHeadzAddiction

2 жыл бұрын

It’s so sad.. I heard an Idol talk about that teenagers in the industry think they need to be thin like a grown slim adult or something, but they’re still developing 🥴

@konnoyasuki1856

2 жыл бұрын

So true and not just limited to Hallyu. There is a side to Korea really Spartan and socially pressuring that it is totally frightening. And having done research, this it not a recent issue and has been going on for quite the time actually... really tragic.

i was shocked when i heard people call hwasa "fat". She is skinny just has more curves than your average idol. geez..

I also find this to be the case with idol HyunA. She weighs around 40kg (she posts pictures of the scale frequently.)and people defend her a lot due to health conditions. But when you look further into it you can quickly find out that her health condition is Vasovagal Syncope, which leads to fainting due to low blood pressure... the irony is that this disease is caused my a low BMI/low weight... so I really don’t get why people defend her low weight so much.... since this disease (can) be cured or at least relieved by gaining some weight. She states that she has been trying to gain weight for about 2 years and so far she gained around 1kg ... which again she shared with a picture of her on the scale + the number showing. I find it hard to believe that this particular disease is hindering her so much from gaining weight... especially since she also said in interviews with her boyfriend that she has to watch what she eats (aka dieting) and that she could eat a lot more, compared to her boyfriend (who is also extremely thin and often looks visibly unhealthy) I want to end this by saying that I like both of them and listen to their music but I think that people are too quick to defend their public behavior...

@DrBitchcraft.

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with this. HyunA most definitely isn't getting enough calories in and probably has a very strict workout routines and stressful schedule. I just really dislike the strong denial that goes on with everything to do with idols. I'm sure she can eat more at once but over all her continuous daily intake isn't enough compared to what she burns. If she went to a nutritionist and had a clear meal plan to gain weight, she would gain weight but she needs an excuse now to not get better. It's not like her illness is Crohns disease where the person would actually have trouble gaining weight. I just wish that an idol would say "I have trouble eating because of stress" or something like that and just acknowledge that "yeah my eating habits could be better".

@tatertots43

2 жыл бұрын

I TOTALLY agree!! Hyuna is my favorite idol of all time, and I'm flabbergasted when I see the ways some people defend her weight. If you watch Hyuna-ing and I'm Fine Thank You and You, she says so many conflicting things about her nutrition goals. It's hard to believe that she's actually committed to reaching a healthy weight. On one hand, she explicitly stated that starving herself when she was a younger idol ruined her body and she told fans not to do extreme things like that. But she also makes comments like the ones you mentioned that she needs to eat better. She also said that instead of starving herself like she used to, now she prefers "eating healthy" and exercising to maintain her body, but that could easily mean that she eats a tiny amount and is sure to work off the rest so that she doesn't gain weight. When I studied abroad in South Korea, it seemed like this is what people meant when they said "healthy", not being at a healthy weight for their frames and lifestyles. And given that she hasn't actually gained much weight at all, it seems more likely than not that that's what she's doing. I do believe that she is trying to be better, but I think "better" in her mind isn't a healthy weight, and she's not always honest with herself and her fans about how she is doing (which I understand, but as fans we don't need to blindly believe everything she says). What is crazy to me is when I talk to people who argue that she's naturally skinny because she herself said that she used to starve herself!! And as you said, vasovagal syncope is associated with being malnourished. That was not her natural weight and it obviously wasn't healthy. She may have other undisclosed health issues that make it difficult to gain weight now, because I understand that is somewhat common with people who restrict themselves too much for too long, and I also think she faces a lot of social pressure to remain as skinny as she was given South Korea's beauty standards and normalized diet culture, but I highly doubt that someone with the money and resources she has access to couldn't gain more weight than that in 2 years if it was truly her goal. 1 kg is an amount that could be attributable to normal fluctuation; I would hardly consider it progress. And even if her low weight is because she has some health condition preventing her from gaining weight, isn't that something we should all acknowledge when we look at pictures of her or her scale? We shouldn't shame her for having an illness, but shouldn't we keep in mind that the image she's putting out is one in which she is admittedly NOT HEALTHY and thus not necessarily aspirational?

@minjitheghost

2 жыл бұрын

and this brings up a whole connecting topic of men and men's issues with body image and eds in the kpop industry. i'm moreso a fan of dawn than hyuna, and he has often worried me by how slim he is, and does often visibly appear very overworked. there are countless of other male idols who have verbally expressed their problems with eds, im sure i don't need to name them, and even if not an individual with the mental relationship to an ed, male idols are still obviously put on very strict diet and workout routines (especially since male idols have become more expected to wear crop tops or other revealing, often feminine attire).

@mladyisthename

2 жыл бұрын

vasovagal syncope is not a disease. It's a response to physical trauma or an emotional trigger, like getting your blood drawn or seeing blood, that causes a drop in blood pressure. stop spewing bullshit.I've had it all my life and have only been underweight twice.

@nothing-jl2dz

2 жыл бұрын

I'm 160cm at my skinniest I was 43kg but usually I was 45kg in my late teens, I was always really tired and my skin was really tight you couldn't really see any "fat", my ideal weight rn at same height is 50kg. I can't imagine being 164cm and 40kg it's horrible and inexcusable to promote it. Cancel-worthy even.

Kpop really messed up my self image, as a black kpop stan since 2008 I knew since the beginning that there's nothing about me that is considered pretty for these people, I always avoided to imagine myself meeting my faves because I would always think that they would laugh at me. I was on a dangerous mindset, I thought that if I can't control the color of my skin, if I can't control my afro features, at least I can control my weight, so I tried to be the skinniest, I tried their diets, I ate using a cup like the WJSN girls, I only ate one apple a day like IU, I only chewed ice like Momo, i tried it all, because I wanted to be pretty for my idols in case we met someday, now I'm messed up forever.

@wren_roeglass

2 жыл бұрын

That's heartbreaking!! I hope you have or can get a good healthcare team to support you in all ways. To face the racism too :c so horrible. I hope you're finding joy in life somewhere or another.

@sweetchocolatesecret

2 жыл бұрын

SAME. I've been a kpop fan since I was 14 and I really thought my bias wasn't going to like me for being a large framed, curvy Black woman. And to this day I still feel insecure watching girl groups...

@amandalopes3048

2 жыл бұрын

@@wren_roeglass thank you for the kind words ♡

@amandalopes3048

2 жыл бұрын

@@sweetchocolatesecret same! I love girlgroups when it comes to concepts and songs, but I try not to stan one of them because I know it will mess me up. Recently I've been in love with Itzy, it was all good until I started to compare myself, became obsessed with their looks, now I just avoid looking at them so I can just live my life lol

@jesusisgodislove9912

2 жыл бұрын

@@amandalopes3048 Oh boo hoo, you're so dramatic. Idols actively tour in brown countries (Brasil & America) yet you think they'd laugh at you because you're Dark skin? 🙄They fan meet THOUSANDS of people & forget them a second later. Stop putting your mental weakness on people halfway around the world.🌎

I remember as a young teen-I’m 25 now- I was very much into K-pop and I hated my body so I looked up the “K-pop idol diet” at the suggestion of a friend who showed me this music, she was on this “diet” and I figured all these beautiful thin people must’ve had some great tips. Nope the companies in charge of these people essentially starve them and it’s horrifying. I had to step away from K-pop for my mental health kept comparing myself to all the women and even the men.

I stopped being a kpop “stan” a couple years ago not only for this reason but also for how *evil* the industry is as a whole. abusing, overworking, and driving these idols to suicide is commonplace. it happens ALL the time. the fans are also actively encouraged to act like pure lunatics that continue the cycle of obsession and abuse towards these idols. it’s absolutely horrific. I cannot tell you how many days, months, and years I have spent mourning the deaths of people that practically raised me with their music, and even more time I have spent *worrying* about which ones will be next. watching them go downhill and then end up dead. it just continues to happen and nobody cares enough to prevent it. I simply cannot and will not continue to support an industry as dark, putrid, and inhuman as that. thank you for talking about it.

@nikemaraje5

Жыл бұрын

Shinee's Jonghyun ?

As an East Asian, it's permeated everything. When you consider there's also the need to put your headshots onto resumes, your appearance can literally become a school topic. My friends got double eye lid surgery as HS graduation presents, our group chats used to be comparing diets, weight loss, and plastic surgery. There was also the hyperfixation on what cosmetic jobs celebrities got. Did X get a nose job? Carboxy shots? Hunting down zoomed blurry photos of idol's legs or comparing before and after photos was an afterschool hobby. Having your weight and appearance be the first thing relatives say to you during family events was the norm. It was so weird to come to America and have coworkers NOT blatantly address my appearance.

@shamidkpzd

2 жыл бұрын

I remember when I lived in Korea one of my Korean friend's mother offered to give her the double eyelid surgery as a graduation present. I was so shocked. She never did get the surgery. She was also quite tanned and her mother and grandma used to complain about it. My friend got into Berkley that year! (now she's a lawyer). She was always so driven and successful but her family would just complain about her appearance. I can't imagine how hard that was for her growing up like that. Like she used to just laugh or shrug it off when it happened but it had to hurt and she doesn't live in Korea anymore.

Thanks for saying that you can have an 'ED at any weight': it means a lot to me as someone who has had binge eating disorder and has struggled with eating for years. . When people need to lose weight because they are at risk of obesity, there is literally no guidance and even the most extreme methods that would be considered akin to anorexia on an underweight person are applauded by even medical professionals because they used to be overweight/obese. It is wrong and I think no matter what eating disorder people are diagnosed with, there should be advice and support for how to be healthy and how to stay healthy. Maybe if realised anyone can have an ED at any weight then people would get help quicker than they do now and be supported when they need it. So thanks for the awareness!

@scandisnowgirl3696

2 жыл бұрын

And many people who are overweight or obese have metabolic issues due to hormones or other disease that make it EXTREMELY difficult to lose weight and putting extreme pressure on them for weight loss bc people are equating that with health, they can actually take a person who is healthy outside of their hormone disorder etc and turn them into an UNHEALTHY one with an eating disorder.

@phoenix72999

2 жыл бұрын

@@scandisnowgirl3696 That, but also it is extremely difficult to tell anyone "yeah, no. Just stop doing that. Change a huge part of your life and it will be fine. Oh, and can you do it right now, please?" Generally, for anyone, losing weight is no joke. If you look it up, it takes a lot of calorie deficit to even lose a single pound. And some of us have a lot of pounds to go. It's not like you could just go on a walk every day and be one size smaller by next week or some sh*t. It's hard. It is extremely time-consuming und requires a lot of discipline and knowledge about what is healthy and productive to do. And then there is the fact that many people are depressed or not feeling that great otherwise. It can be exhausting to do anything "normal". Let alone change the way you live your life and what you eat, just so you can be a bit more healthy than before. Many people find comfort in the way they lead their lives and in what they like to eat and that alone is no joke. I don't think I have a problem with hormones. I just think that changing your entire lifestyle to eat healthier and move enough is a huge change and thus extremely hard, especially if you are mentally unhealthy. I didn't find out how to do it yet, but I hope I will one day.

@scandisnowgirl3696

2 жыл бұрын

@@phoenix72999 yeah it's a spectrum of people for sure. For myself, I have endometriosis which spread to my bowels so it slowed down my metabolism hugely. I was working with a nutritionist and had to cut my calories to less than 1000 a day + exercise to get MINIMAL weight loss. Thankfully she recognised that as more problematic than my slight overweightness was and told me to stop trying to lose weight and focus on mental health instead. Aside from the endometriosis, I'm fine, my blood work looks great, my blood pressure is fine, I'm healthy except for my damn uterus lol. So she was right, it was better for me to find acceptance of the changes in my body rather than try to fit into a mold that I THOUGHT I had to for society to accept me. I'm LIGHT YEARS better now after doing that work with counselling. I can't make society accept me for who I am, but I can accept myself.

@phoenix72999

2 жыл бұрын

@@scandisnowgirl3696 OK yeah, that sounds great. I am also really not an expert in this and I am sure there are lots of people like you who really do have it hard. And I wasn't trying to invalidate or shame anyone for not trying to lose weight. I don't really mind that, no matter what anyone's size is. If you are happy with it for any reason, I am happy for you and no one should judge you (maybe as long as you are not dying, but that would be rather a situation that would make me feel sorry). I was just trying to say that for some people who want to or should lose weight for some reason, there is hope, it's just hard to achieve. I have been getting into sports for a year and I look kind of stronger now, I guess, I also feel a lot lighter/stronger, but I am still overweight and just generally weigh a lot. Never been tested for endometriosis, but I am also not a disciplined person overall, so it might be because of that. I have never been really skinny, just at the upper border of normal weight, and I would like to achieve that again long term. Maybe I will look into nutritionists one day.

@scandisnowgirl3696

2 жыл бұрын

@@phoenix72999 I highly suggest going to a nutritionist if you're attempting weight loss, they will help you do it the right way 🙂 I wish you all the best and remember to love yourself wherever you're at in your journey

That is literally how I got my eating disorder when I was 15. As I stepped away from that world I became healthier. Ive been recovered for like 3 years btw and haven't been into k pop ever since I started my recovery

@dnatelier

2 жыл бұрын

im so happy you're recovered! can you please give me some advice to step out of the kpop world? its triggering too much and i also want to recover but it seems too hard :(

@albadelcastillo5575

2 жыл бұрын

@@dnatelier yeah its very hard :((( maybe you don't have to stop listening to it but maybe Stop watching all the extra content or anything that is triggering. Maybe focus on something else and step out the kpop world and see how it goes. There are many things that involve a recovery and it takes time so don't give up. Love you 💕 anything you need I'm here

@dnatelier

2 жыл бұрын

@@albadelcastillo5575 thank you so much!!

Jeon Somi singlehandedly triggered me to relapse into my ED. She is 1 inch taller than me and weighs, almost 35 pounds less, which blows my mind. After the scale picture, it was downhill lmaooo. Kpop idols love talking about starving themselves to lose weight fast, even my ult group has admitted to it. Being disordered and loving kpop is a slippery slope.

When I became sick it was because of the “aesthetic”. Like it was tumblr, black and white with a cigarette and Japanese writing. Looking emaciated was “cool”. Being pale and lookig fragile. But later on I started liking the more cutsey style and a lot of my friends ans I talked about just “kawaiiness” and EDs. Like it was cute being small and fragile and not eating and only eating fruit cause “I wanna only eat cute stuff”. Everything now, when thinking about it makes no sense but it did to us back then :/

@danika7894

Жыл бұрын

I know exactly what you mean

I lost 40 lbs in 7 months. Underweight BMI, eating x calories, hair falling out. And still no one (no doctors, family members, etc) has ever mentioned that I may have an ED because I dont look like a corpse.

@munchiekins

2 жыл бұрын

please take care of yourself ❤❤

@user-pn6wc7lf6w

2 жыл бұрын

someone will show obvious symtomps of an ed yet doctors wont care bc theyre not ''underweight''

@ojyochan

2 жыл бұрын

I had to demand therapy, had to acknowledge I was slowly killing myself and be my own advocate. I'd probably be dead now if I hadn't feared my own demise.

I like kpop, but i cannot stand kpop fandom spaces, this is one of the reason why. Everything you said is spot on. Keep up the great work, dorian, you're a godsend.

in south korea they'd rarely hire any woman for ANY job is she weighs over 50kg, REGARDLESS of her height, which is insane

Thank you for talking about this. When I was at my worst with my ED around 13-14, I was obsessed with k-pop and idols. I was in ED forums with other girls just like me, talking about which idols bodies we wished we had, or sharing around thinspo of clearly sick idols. It’s a very toxic environment that a lot of teens with eating disorders who fall into the fandom, end up getting themselves sucked into. I still like k-pop (obviously from my profile pic lol) but I’ve distanced myself so much from the fandom over the years while I began to recover because it IS such a triggering part of the internet and it does need to be addressed.

@mukehamhamismyreligion

2 жыл бұрын

Also, I’m seeing this kind of stuff ALL over TikTok, not even just from k-pop stans, it makes it very hard to enjoy social media during recovery because proana is literally everywhere in plain sight now /: I feel really bad for the younger kids like I once was who stumble across it and start to go down that rabbit hole.

I was literally just putting on the Nostalgia Project playlist to listen to as I lay down for bedtime (as I do every night). Looks like I will be going to bed after watching this instead. On an unrelated note, Dorian, your eyes are beyond mesmerizing with those lashes and purple shadow.💜

Thank you Dorian for this. Visiting my family in Korea it is so overwhelming these advertisements and such, I myself with no history of body dysmorphia started to doubt my body . I've seen 1st hand my cousin, she's a ray of sunshine almost fade away because she almost developed an ed but we caught it just in time and are helping her. Won't say much as she spoke to me in confidence but it all boiled down to her being exposed to thinspo images, theses thin kpop girls in music videos and just in general being exposed to it everyday especially at school since she lives in Korea. It also broke my heart she even considered well really wanted plastic surgery aswell and at such a young age. I don't care if people find it as "harassing another culture" or whatever, this is a problem a big one and it needs to be seeded out because if this is the "culture of Korea" then it's not a very positive culture.

@wren_roeglass

2 жыл бұрын

So glad your cousin got help in time!

I don’t think you mentioned this during the course of the video, but I think it should also be noted that South Korea has one of the highest su!cide rates in the world. While I’m not Korean myself, I’ve done enough research to learn that the overall expectation for perfection (both physically and academically) is way higher than it is in the states or in the UK. People go through absolute hell to get jobs and rent apartments - it’s ridiculously competitive all around. On top of that, mental health treatment is more stigmatized than it is in the west which only further serves to exacerbate the issue. It’s really sad to see

@boinkadoinkk

2 жыл бұрын

It really is... I have a friend from south korea who's also a trans man, and the shit he's had to deal with, both growing up and now as a college graduate (literally from an ivy league school too!), is horrific. He's developed severe mental health issues from it all, but even when seeking mental health treatment in korea he's discriminated against. It's so fucking wrong.

This has been a MASSIVE problem in East Asia for a long time now, especially the last 20 years. A lot of young women even in Japan think starving themselves is the only way to keep thin. Even the clothes in Eastern Asian countries look like they were made for a child with the super-small sizes. One time, I got tights and its turns out they were from China. I thought they were so cute, thinking a medium would be the same as the size in my own country. I was so wrong and in for a rude awakening because they ripped to shreds just getting them over my shin. Not even exaggerating. Yes, I am aware the foods they eat in Asia are very different and pack weight on differently than foods in, say, the USA. But Dorian, 100% agree here. This has been ongoing and only getting much worse.

I remember back when I was like 14 watching “Ulzzang fashion Inspo” videos on KZread around 2013. All the pics were of very thin women and centred around their thigh gaps and delicate bone structure. I was already 2 years into my ED so I was very familiar with thinspo videos especially on KZread. Same thing happened on a lot of alt girl compilation videos , just a bunch of really skinny pretty girls who happened to be dressed in a certain aesthetic. Again all the pics seemed to focus in on their collar bones , thigh gaps and flat stomachs rather than the fashion aspect. I’m not even a KPOP fan and even I was drawn in , I found myself using these “fashion” videos set to music as a sort of surreptitious thinspo lol. Did wonders for my self esteem obviously. I still am struggling daily with my ED but managed to maintain a slightly healthy BMI and have put those toxic thinspo videos behind me. Thank you so much for talking about this , bc thinking back they really were just thinly (lol) veiled ED propaganda.

@biscoffology

2 жыл бұрын

the grip the ulzzang girlies had on me omg ..

@Hailozilla

2 жыл бұрын

Oh my god.... was I doing this without knowing it? Holy shit.....

This video spoke to my soul at a point, because I am a performer and I have lost jobs because of my size at a normal BMI(I'm not posting figures). The pressure is incredible, and destructive at times. Also, Dorian, your entire outfit is a LEWK and I love it!💙

i remember a friend of mine who LOVED k-pop to the point where she actually tried out for dance groups and was able to get into the top 50 in many auditions. i wish i would’ve seen how dangerous her eating habits were getting when she started limiting herself. i moved before i could really recognize it, but k-pop & the insanely dangerous things they make the idols do to stay thin are so so SO dangerous and i’m so happy you said something 🤎

you’re so right about how pro ana will always exist but it HAS to be locked away. the fact that a random thinspo image with graphic captions can appear on my timeline so easily is disturbing. i once got an influx of kpop ed twt followers after posting a picture of my outfit and it made me so sick once i realised why they followed me. this shit needs to be somewhere safe and separate, not available and ready to pop up on ANYONE’S timeline. it’s sick and people need to stop intertwining it with innocent things like kpop Twitter, filled with kids and anyone who does not need to see that shit :(

Very true, I've been a kpop fan since 2015 and it's getting worse. The amount of kpop thinspo on Twitter is scary and very triggering for myself as someone who struggles with an ed. I've found myself having to stop watching specifically girl group performances as I know see what the thinspo twitter people have been saying. A once fun thing I enjoyed is now connected with eds, which I had never once associated before:(

Another very interesting ED topic that I would appreciate a video from you about is how much now I see a MASSIVE posting of ED content "my biggest binge" "a day of restriction"....I don't know this kind of content seems to spread so muuuuch it's insane; I am so sorry for all this teenagers struggling, I don't wish what I lived to my worst enemy.

@Hellakiddie

2 жыл бұрын

It’s been bothering me too I used to ONLY see that on blogs

@jas7136

2 жыл бұрын

I actually find it really calming watching those. The ppl behind them put up Tws and I know they don't always effectively deter ppl but they probably do more good than harm.

I’ve been a “kpop” multi fan since 2012 and the obsession with their bodies have gotten crazy. There are even KZread shorts comparing bodies from debut to now, showing if they gained or lost weight etc. there is such an obsession with bodies in kpop in general. Some contracts even have their weight as part of their image. Trainees get weighed multiple times a day before debut sometimes it’s out of hand in SK

@donovanberes

2 жыл бұрын

@@beepboop9266 that’s because they didn’t focus on it until recently . This pandemic has people home and bored so they are all complaining online (my opinion)

as a japanese/filipino american i have also felt like the ‘thin’ ideal put on asian women pressured me more than i realized into developing an ed. seeing only extremely thin and beautiful women of your race being seen or praised by the media is SO FUCKING DAMAGING-i literally cant begin to explain. my experience with women who ‘look like me’ in media has always been ‘i wish i was as skinny as her so i could be seen as pretty too’🙃 im 20 now and have gotten myself out of that mindset and headspace (i stopped following kpop after a couple of my favorite idols committed suicide due to the extreme toxic social pressures in asian culture) but even as i’ve been recovering, there’s always this underlying irrational fear of ‘fat’ that has been implanted into my psyche and it still haunts me tbh

it's wild for me how fans defend idols who post photos of their weight scale and promote very ?? diets on tv shows. omad aside, there are yt videos of people following 'just one sweet potato a day' diets just because some idol promoted it. there's this whole idea of how female idols shouldn't be "heavier" than 50kgs too, no matter their height. following kpop can wreck your body image if your aren't careful :/ you get both male idols taking roids to bulk up and female idols going on extreme diets. sigh

Yes thank you, this has put into words so many things I have been thinking about. Another place that I have really seen this kpop-ed connection is in workout videos on KZread. A few months ago I started working out a lot (not from an ed motivated standpoint, I was working on strengthening muscles to improve my cycling power and endurance) and started off following KZread workout tutorial videos. Very quickly I saw that the comments were filled with young girls talking about how they wanted to go back to school looking like kpop idols, tracking their measurements in comments they would update as they got closer to their goals, all of it very deeply fuelled by insecurity and a very unhealthy relationship to weight and exercise. I think some of the people who make these videos definitely know that this is their main audience and really lean into it. Lots of videos are titled things like ‘quiet workout, no jumping, bedroom friendly’ and the comments are filled with young teenagers saying how glad they are they can do this workout secretly in their bedrooms without their parents knowing, or will have things like ‘kpop workout’ in the title, or be set to kpop music. Some people who make KZread workout videos are more responsible than others, and there are some really great channels out there, but there are also some that exploit the ed driven demand for videos that will help young girls try to look like kpop stars in order to get views

@unicornattacke6684

2 жыл бұрын

The 'no jumping' videos are more for people who live in apartments or who have knee problems. That anorexic teens use them for loosing waight is another can of worms.

Thank you so so very much for mentioning this statistics about ED sufferers who are not at all under weight!!!! I was actually in the hospital with organs *shutting down* from severe potassium deficiency, but due to technically being classed as *overweight* by my bmi, was *not eligible* for inpatient help. Didn't matter that I had just lost literally 100 pounds in 6 months. I was clinically overweight. 😑

Kpop has played a huge role (if not caused) in my ED. I've wanted to dance for a very long time, however I've always been bullied for my weight to the point where I stopped dancing completely. I got back into dancing around the same time I learned about kpop, and it did help boost my confidence for a while. Having these beautiful choreos that I could practice with. It soon went south however when blood, sweat, and tears by BTS came out. Jimin (one of the members of BTS) had openly talked about the fact that he had starved himself for months before filming. He had a diet where he would skip eating for 10 days, then would eat one meal on the 11th day, rinse and repeat. And he looked gorgeous. Everyone was singing his praise, even people outside of ARMY (BTS's fanbase). Even straight men appreciated his beauty. I wanted to be like him. Exactly like him, no matter the cost. To be able to dance and be praised for it. I began truly starving myself around November that year. I had discovered pro-anorexia Tumblr too. I quickly became anemic and weak. I'm actually disabled now and my symptoms came on strong around this time. I stopped being able to walk or stand. I would faint in class and couldn't run my gym class's warmup laps. I went further than Jimin did; I almost got hospitalized (which is saying a lot because I'm American and most of us would rather cut off a limb than pay medical bills). And I was so frustrated because through it all, I GAINED weight. Yeah, turns out starving myself makes myself GAIN. I eventually stopped out of necessity and frustration. Nothing was happening and I was missing too much school. It stayed that way for a few months until the whole femboy thing started up. I realized I was gay around the same time. I had (and still have) all this pressure on me to be skinny because I'm already short so no one will love me unless I'm fully petite, right? I feel guilty dating people and wanting to just be in a relationship with someone. I've fully given up dancing due to my ED triggered disability. I now have stomach, heart, and breathing problems. I still want to dance and live my life, it just feels impossible because as my "friend" told me when I tried dancing in front of her, "It's ok, it's just the fact that it's YOU. That's the problem."

You make some really good points! And I’d like to add that a lot of social media algorithms (tiktok in particular) will continue to push unsafe and unhealthy ideas of body image, beauty standards and ideas of health because their primary motive is profit. Please be very cautious and block any accounts or hashtags that you may notice making you feel worse or uncomfortable. 💗💗

@victoriaann4762

2 жыл бұрын

It’s so sick that these algorithms promote unhealthy ideals. 🙁 I see it all the time on my Pinterest feed, and I don’t even “pin” things promoting beauty ideals. They just pop up, even if my activity doesn’t reflect beauty ideals at all. You’re right, the best thing to do is just block them.

Finally! As someone residing in South Korea for quite the time I'm so grateful you addressed this here in detail. I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one seeing the big problem with the absolute pressuring of requiring a slender, near muscleless body-type for the K-Pop performers. And NOT just K-Poppers but people appearing on TV as a whole (which also combines with other serious issues like extraneous plastic surgery & whatnot). This had become such prevalent in Korean culture that it is taking a big toll on the people & raising so much problems even spilling out into the socio-political infrastructure. And as someone witnessing all this right now, Korea is currently, absolutely unhealthy both physically AND internally. Apologies for rambling on too long but as someone living here, experiencing this in progress I needed to write this down. Hallyu has its good points & whatnot but... There is a dark side to Korea that they will Never ever show on any media or tourist postcards. Its depressing. Thank You So Much again for this video.

@jazwhoaskedforthis

2 жыл бұрын

I would really like to go to places like SK someday, but I’m never going to be that thin and I worry that I’ll just get there and feel like a hideous beast the whole time when judged by those standards.

I love that you brought up that you can starve at any size and that EDed people who aren't thin often struggle to get help. I come from a very emotionally abusive home and my parents were cruel with their fatshaming (even though I was never really fat until I started taking mental health meds, then I started gaining without changing my diet). My dad laughed in my face when I said that if they keep talking this type of stuff they're gonna push me into an ED. I even starved myself at some point, but it didn't last long, so I didn't wreck my body.

it’s very much engrained in society here in SK, just among normal non-idol people too. starvation is called a diet. it’s extremely normal. you can go to any doctor and get prescription diet pills that feel like meth even if you’re underweight (most doctors will always mention weight if you’re overweight and go in for any health issue). it’s wild out here when it comes to body image

Ugh finally someone talking about this. The Koop industry triggers the shit out of me when it comes to body image

kpop is one of the big reasons why i got my ED. Hearing all the idols i loved saying they liked slim girls, they wanted or had a slim figure, korean press promoting unhealthy ways of losing weight or judging idols for being “fat” (even though they were CLEARLY skinny) made a huge impact on me. Is insane how mostly no one wants to hold kpop industry and fandoms accountable of this!

"the whole I am not messed up to need therapy" is a bummer right. I felt that in my bones.

That makeup is on point today Dorian. Sliving for this look.

If you really admired your idols, you would want them to be healthy and safe. Unless you’re disordered or you have a toxic view of what other people should look like.

@juliee593

2 жыл бұрын

The "unless" part of your comment is the case of most kpop fans who are active on social media sadly. After being a kpop fan for years I can tell you this whole "thin=good" culture is so badly ingrained in kpop and in Korea in general that it's inescapable. Basically all the kpop content you can ever watch is SOAKED in it. After a while, unless you're a stable adult, it's bound to warp your vision of reality and to internalise toxic standards.

@nothing-jl2dz

2 жыл бұрын

I feel sick when people want others to be stick thin cause it seems like a glorified control method and wanting to keep them 'weak', it's not just about wanting "beauty" but rather keeping them controlled

A Goth talking about k-music ? Two of my worlds colliding !

Thank you for talking about this. I really got into K-Pop when I was around 15 and never truly realized how toxic that world is. There is SO much content promoting EDs, it's insane. Idols proudly sharing starvation diets, managers and producers constantly shaming and controlling singers, commentary about idols' drastic transformations... It's crazy how many videos there are of girls fainting on stage because of the exhaustion they have to put up with. And the fans just applaud it. I'm so glad I don't watch that type of content anymore.

I’m half Korean and I can say from experience that in Korean culture you are constantly getting verbally abused into being thin by family and older people even when you’re hella young. It’s been a cultural issue and now it’s seeping into the rest of the world.

@VeganVampire.

2 жыл бұрын

That is absolutely tragic. I'm sorry you've experienced that

I was very into kpop as a young teen and it definitely shaped my perception on my body. I would feel fat even when i was underweight and i following insane idol diets. Even now as a young adult seeing kpop content is triggering and i get those same feeling and urges even though I now in my rational mind know that i am still at a weight that is not healthy for my body and actively working on treating my mind and body right. I can't engage with it without being triggered which is quite a shame as there was also many things about kpop i enjoyed ... It sends me right back in that sick mindset. Excuse my poor english

I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I love Dorian’s violet lip and eye combo 💟

Yes! I'm a small size 4 in US sizes but I'm a large/XL in Asian sizes. I actually had to purchase an ao dai for an upcoming wedding and for a minute I felt really bad about myself because I couldn't fit any of the premade dresses. But then I remembered that my ribcage is simply broader (though my bust is quite small) than my Asian counterparts'.

@aendra6495

2 жыл бұрын

Oh lord, I can't even begin to imagine how harmful it must be for teenage girls growing up in east asian countries with that kind of sizing.

My mom had bulimia for all of my childhood. At the her heaviest she was 400 pounds. I find your videos helpful to me to understand more of what was going on with my mom, and what I was seeing at the time but not understanding. Thank you for that. I love your makeup BTW.

Hi Dorian! i'm skipping out on the video because of the triggering content but i just wanted to swing by and say you look absolutely ethereal here

@HelloGoodbye2085

2 жыл бұрын

Hope you are doing ok, power to you for being able to take steps to avoid triggering content 💖💖

@AnjelinaSaint

2 жыл бұрын

proud of you

Thank you for taking this on, I’m a similar age so did not realize this was a huge aspect in K Pop until a few weeks ago with the whole should Eugenia be age restricted fiasco with people whatabout’ing K Pop as also being thinspo and actually pro Ana. For me it is really reminiscent of a lot of pop culture in the states growing up in the late 90s early 2000s. Making jokes about models living on lettuce were normal. It was the sign of a good athletes when gymnastics and dancers didn’t give into the temptations with food. What they ate and their stats were pretty accessible, even publicized, and not just normalized or viewed as an ideal, you were weak minded if you couldn’t do it too. Like social media today that coincided with the first blog websites and platforms like livejournal and free wysiwyg editor websites. So the proana community just seemed logical. Everyone was already collecting images, and other content for themselves now it was easy to share it. Also notable it was common in actors and pop artists as well. Anyone remember Ally McBeal? Madonna was viewed as a guru with her new obsession with eating lean and living in the gym to the point she was in a relationship with her trainer. When new pop was rising like Britney Spears. So I think it’s a perfect storm of having a pop culture once again glorifying and normalizing EDs with an explosion in new types of internet media, like tiktok. Once again people have easy accessible ways to share what they were already collecting. It will sadly likely happen again, and often hits the same places and industries. With America’s current attention on obesity and everyone going crazy for procedures like filler, I would not be surprised to see us back to size 0 or else.

k-pop was also a big reason I started having problems with disordered eating, it made it so accessible, especially when people and magazines and blogs stalk the k-pop stars and post what their eating and workouts that they "do". I'm so glad that you made a video on this, as no one really talks about it since it's stereotyped as the average look of a korean/east-asian (generalized) and so few people criticize it. K-pop idols are still a huge trigger for me, but it's important to expose these sorts of unhealthy tactics and behaviours and standards. We need to make sure that the mistreatment and pressure on these idols is well-known, so that no one can encounter k-pop thinspo and understand that it's toxic and damaging and often unattainable (and unnecessary) and that there are safer and healthier ways of going about increasing self-esteem and losing weight (assuming they're truly above their "healthy weight" and aren't initially intending for it to be a disorder (but who plans it to be, honestly, lmao)).

@ketchup_mouthwash

2 жыл бұрын

Yesss I love your aurora profile pictureeeee

In a video I saw recently an idol talked about how she had to hide from company staff in order to eat something she really liked. She was caught and terribly shamed for it and it seems to have a lasting negative impact. Its hard as a fan when you worry for an artist's health while at the same time trying to respect their boundaries.

thank you for talking about this. Kpop was the thing I found when I just started high school in 2011, and I became so obsessed with it and it was amazing. It brought me so much joy, made me love music and study languages. But it also introduced some very messed up body issues that are still just as pushed now as they were a decade ago, and at 22 I wonder what my perception of food and body would be like if I had never stumbled across kpop as a child.

thank u for this video ! ! although i love kpop throughout the years it has definitely negatively effected my body image and contributed to my eating disorder .

You are such a responsible creator, I would’ve never caught that just giving a cautionary tale would be giving tips on how to get sicker.

I realize this is nobodies business but yours but I just wanted to say hope you're doing ok

In a similar vein to the K-pop stuff, I always felt like the cosplay community had a somewhat similar undercurrent. I think it varies by country, but certainly some countries it seemed more prevalent in based on their cosplay scenes/prolific creators. It's a funny one, because I never really heard or saw anyone talk about it before and wished someone would. But I definitely think it's a similar thing in the cosplay community that drives the K-pop ideal, people trying to fit a mould that isn't real, people trying to literally look like 2D anime characters.

So glad u r talking about this because their fans r so loyal and obsessed that they follow everything they do blindly. It's scary and extremely worrisome.

I am also frustrated with BMI. I've had doctors try to bully me into getting help for weight loss KNOWING My history of anorexia because I had a BMI of 27 I had a 24 inch waist and wore a UK size 8 FFS. I have this thing called muscle! And I'm black! I used to be weighed in ftont of my white classmates at a private school and they wonder why I developed an ED

@stephanienicole4571

2 жыл бұрын

We used to get weighed in front of our classmates in the US too. Idk if they still do that.

@victoriaann4762

2 жыл бұрын

Shit, I’m so sorry you dealt with that. 😦 They shouldn’t bully you into anything. BMI’s are just calculated numbers that don’t take into account muscle and bone density. We really need to eliminate them from our healthcare services.

@mississipi1103

2 жыл бұрын

They 're so dumb ! Everybody knows that BMI have been made by rich (us peasants stock more to survive the winter lol) white people for rich white people ! It doesn't work for black people and asians

@goodnightmyprince6734

2 жыл бұрын

@@mississipi1103 This. My family always had these pot bellies. A black nurse said it was genetic because of famines. I didn't know this since the belly was a source of my insecurities.

@BooksAndChocolate

2 жыл бұрын

Oh man, this is harsh. Hope you feel better now

i was surrounded by kpop for a while when i was younger and i got into it a couple of years ago, and now that i'm almost 14 and actually struggling with an ED, i realize now how much kpop beauty standards have actually affected me. thank you for making this video