The rule I work by is salvaged steel is fine for my tooling. If it's for a customer it's always known steel. If something goes wrong with it I'm liable so I'd rather not take the risk.

A lesson learned is never a failure but always a unique opportunity

I've never sold anything I've made, but I've given family and friends numerous knives and small hatchets to split kindling. Most of the knives I've made were from bed rails, and I'll admit in the beginning, there were many more failures than successes. The hatchets were mostly from 16 inch diamond edged masonry blades because of the thickness. Learning to anneal properly was an experience in itself, and in the beginning led to many failures. Okay enough whining about my inexperience as a knife maker. And thanks for the videos, that have helped me tremendously.

Love the frankness and willingness to share your mistakes

Once I start selling my stuff, I will be buying the steel, especially for blades and tools. For my stuff, I like the idea of salvaged stuff.

Oh Lord,the "shoulda,woulda,coulda" conundrum...I know,I know but we've all been there and beating ourselves up over it never works out right,so all I can say is just keep doing what you do and tell yourself this is just part of the game,THANKS AGAIN!!!

Worked oil rigs for 22 yrs, ran and pulled hundreds of thousands of meters in and out of the ground, practically an unending supply of steel if your in the right area of course. You'll find in some areas H2S, oil corrosion and wear will degrade the steel to a lesser strength and it won't be uniform. So many grades to pick from but that also depends on area. Love all your videos, making my way through them, thanks for the teachings.

Thanks for the advice! But, you are right, we're all going to use scrounged steel just like you. LOL 😆😆😆

Good point. I'm in our metal dumpster every day at work. Lol found a long chunk of 1 inch rebar which was awesome. yeah that is a great point. Lucky most of my smithing is for me for fun or four items to give to people. so I guess I have time to do it twice. Lol

For my own tools and my own kicks and giggles I will use scrap steel for a customer they get the good stuff.

Thanks John. I have been blacksmithing for a few months. I love the junk yard steel. It’s super cheap and I live about 4 miles from the yard. My wife says I drag way to much home but when I’m looking around the brain goes into hyper drive envisioning all the projects!! Thanks again John

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I know the feeling

As always, great information, John. Thank You for your knowledge.

I will admit i use found/recycled/scrapyard steel wherever i can, but only for my own tooling, projects and use. So it will be on me and no one else will complain but me. Very useful information though and i will lock it into the abyss for later reference.

Thank you sir for the great video.

Great advice. I will keep that in mind.

that is the shank off a John Deere chisel plow or looks like it. normally if they have be scraped it was hung on something that bent or broke it off so there could have been lots of stress put on it. thank you for the insight on the junk irons. very helpful to me doing this as a hobby. since I'm learning my time isn't worth much and the new steel is very expensive.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

You have pretty well described the risk. This stuff was in the scrap heap for a reason. But still, I am sure I will use it for a less critical purpose

I'm an incurable packrat when it comes to metal projects. That's the luxury of being a newbie student of the craft. But if it has to be right scrounging ain't worth it. Thanks, yet again

Very informative thank you sir, I am a junk yard steel junkie so far lol

Just thought as new members join that group and see you from time to time it may really help them by then joining your you tube channel and help you by upping your numbers. I understand totally as it is obvious that you are very dedicated to your audience. Hense the reason I joined your patrion page. Thanks for all you do!

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I will certainly try to be active on the group, but it may not be every day. Plus I have to lurk for a little while to see what seems to be topical and what seems to be worth avoiding.

Great information , I understand you fully ! I have scrounged steel , before, for my own projects , As of this time , I have not sold anything , I need to learn and hone my skills a bit more ! I have given presents , but I know that they are good to my standards, I am very picky when I judge my work and I won't pass anything on unless I am sure it is right !

BTW as a photographer who likes to dabble in a lot of things. I will tell you that probably the reason you camera would not focus is that it invisible light from the emitter that it uses to focus was probably bouncing off the table then into the receiver. if you are a shooter and know anything about scopes and sighting in it is called parallax Depending on how old your camera is most will focus down pretty close. To check to see if that is true of you camera. set theings up the same way and either turn the tool around 180 degrees or swivel the camera around 180 degrees.

Made my first hook knife ,using my first tongs yesterday.Got two drift pins the other day,going to forge a small adze for bowl carving soon,this is so much fun.Thats a shame the adze edge failed,I am sure you did everything possible while testing the steel.

Me and my friend just picked up several loads of diamensional flat bar, round, angle,pipe, and other misc. Pieces sized anywhere from 3 ft to 10ft long. Some of the material has a nice patina, while other pieces are rust free just like from the steel supply.These nice people, were only wanting it to go to a good home, not to the recycle. With a promise that it indeed would be used and made into projects they offered to sell it to us for going scrap price. Since we do not have the ability to weigh it we have been guessing heavy to keep everyone happy and who is going to complain about paying 4 cents a lb instead of 2 cents. So far we've got 3 trailer loads filled with as much as I care to haul in my 14,000 lb rated trailer and half ton pickup. We have paid them for 14 tons of steel, but in reality we've maybe hauled home 7 to 8 tons. Total cost so far, 560$, and a lot of nice blacksmithing sizes too. So this video came at just the right time, as I just got it unloaded, came in out of the rain sat down and saw this video. The risk in my case is driving the Seattle freeways in the rain with a load of almost free steel. So if there is a question in this, it would be who wouldn't?

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Hopefully most of it is just mild steel. It would be unlikely to find a scrap pile that size of alloy and high carbon steels, but it may be worth test hardening anything that seems different. Great score

very nice video, but I don t think I have a choice, there is only one shop with tool steel in my country wich sells for extremely high prices, the prices are so high, that it is cheaper for me to order fron newjewsey steel baron and ship it to middle of europe, so will keep using junkyard steels, even though there is a risk.

Despite this being a few years old, topic relevant and being on the internet, if you happen to live around any high-end manufacturing/fab shops, they blow through loads of raw materials every week and often give high quality scrap steels and alloys away for pennies if not outright free versus paying someone to come collect it. If you're planning to melt it yourself or forge damascus, I 'm going to have to process it one way or another regardless! My spouse works for an aerospace company which has a monthly auction for all kinds of interesting things, one of them being left-over 'exotic' materials. 😁👌

Duly noted. I don't intend to make any adzes out of wrecking yard steels but you never know. As of now I've piled up several pairs of coil springs of varying sizes and rates, a pile of valve springs, several leaf spring packs, camshafts, 1-ton axleshafts, V8 engine connecting rods, differential gears & cross shafts and steering linkages to work with for a range of tool & accessory projects. I enjoy the act of recycling/repurposing so I will be working with wrecking yard steels often. Chisels, punches and kitchen knives are likely going to be the hardest working tools I'll make but will only be made of 1-ton spring steel so I don't expect to have issues there. We'll see :-D

I have some of the same tractor hitch bar that harden the same way

John, I heard you joined the Forging it foreward group. Awesome! I haven't seen you post to the group yet. We're waiting... Also you can post a link to your new video's as they come out on there. Your number of subscribers would jump if you did I believe. I look forward to hearing from you on there.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I spend less and less time on FB as I spend more and more time on YT. But I will pop over from time to time.

Made a chisel out of high tensile rod and it cracked on me but I think it was because I forgot to normalize it three times. When I re-quenched in water yet again it cracked badly. I ended up putting it back in the forge to undo any hardening and bent the cutting edge just encase someone might find and want to use it in the future. Good advise in the video thanks.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I find a true annealing cycle removes more stress than normalizing.

Thanks John, I'm not a gambler, time is worth more than materials. It's like buying the same tool over and over because you got the bright idea of putting the tool somewhere you could find it, now you've forgotten where you put it. Now you have 3 of them somewhere? LOL!!!

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Only 3?

@johntompkins147

6 жыл бұрын

LOL!!

I read somewhere that old nicholson files used some special steel that had 1.2 or 1.5% carbon, might make some NICE edges...any dangers with old files? dont seem to endure much stress in use like springs...

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Files are great for cutting tools that need a very sharp edge but not for something that will be abused. Of course tempoering them a bit softer helps overcome the brittleness.

I think they big hunk of metal could be a plow shank

Would folding junk steel alleviate some problems with stressed scrap?

Looks like a chisel plow tine. Should have been a fairly high carbon steel.

i see junkyard steel as a way to learn on nothing more nothing less and maby for tools or toys for me but im am just like that in ever thing i do i dont cut corners when i am charging for something

Ever do a video on recycling? What do you recommend to do with a status post garbage disposal grinded kitchen stainless spoon ? Or animal fencing? Can blacksmiths use stainless?

@BlackBearForge

5 жыл бұрын

I haven't. Some people use stainless but it isn't something I have tried myself.

@tkjazzer

5 жыл бұрын

@@BlackBearForge chromium makes me nervous given certain forms cause cancer

I'm intested in learning what methods you like to use for testing unknown scrapyard metals so that in the future I have a go to testing procedure that will give me a good overview of an unknown metals capabilities. I'd like to be proficient in that. One question right off is, if I believe a scrounged metal to have had a stressed life would folding and forge welding be one way to avoid finding stress fractures in the worked piece later on?

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

It's something I will have to do a series of videos on. But the simple version is that you take a small piece and test harden starting in air, if it doesn't harden try oil, then water. But that is only to see what the proper quench medium is. There are lots of other issues. Folding and welding might help, but unkonwn steels might not weld well.

Your right, but scrap is a good education for blacksmiths.

spring tooth (c- shank)for a chisel plow .

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Thank. Now if I only new what it was really made of. But, if I use it again it will be for a forging tool that doesn't need maximum hardness and can be oil quenched.

Had two lil tools shatter on me (lil square punch and a round punch) made from hay rake tyne. Experiments seemed to show it water hardened well but I'm obviously screwing up the normalising or hardening/tempering. I don't mind as there my own tools, if it was for someone else I'll buy stock every time (usually when I'm making micro electronics as I do that on commission but new Smith still). If it's mine I can fix it. if it's sold I don't want them or me to have to fix it, ever :) black bear makes mistakes so we don't have to :D

@standaffern6595

6 жыл бұрын

jetblackstar: The Flint striker I made from my hayrake tine cracked when I quenched it in water, works fine when oil quenched. Lesson learned, test it before wasting my time making something out of it. But I'm going to bet that won't be the last time I learn that lesson, as I have a memory problem.

Could you put a link to that sucker rod chart up? I’ve been looking for one and haven’t had any luck finding one. I made a cut off hardy with sucker rod and my attempts at hardening seem to make it softer!

@erniew5805

6 жыл бұрын

www.albertaoiltool.com/pdf/tech_bulletin/sucker%20%comparison%20guide.pdf had good info does it work???

@erniew5805

6 жыл бұрын

it doesnt work but i searched sucker rod comparison

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/12109-oil-field-steel-and-rods/

I don’t to teach granny to suck eggs,but and you might already know but I have in one my reference books if I could which one but in it says there a test a person can do with steal to tell what it is,you grab your test bit of steal and put it to grind wheel and the colour of spark tell you what steel it is if you knew ok, if you didn’t I hope I have helped you.

What would be the best material for an adz?

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I make a lot of them from O1 tool steel, but it is tough to forge. More and more I am using mild steel with a welded in 5160 cutting edge.

The lesson here is, if someone is paying good money for a tool use known quality steel. It would have been worse if you did not notice or the cracks developed after you sold it. For your own use you can risk a failure but you cannot risk your reputation by using junk yard steel for customers.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I certainly agree with you. But I also see a large number of smiths marketing as “repurposed” or “recycled”. So there are some customers out there that see it as a selling point. Anymore my preference is mild steel with welded in edge of new known steel.

Rule of tumb. Costomer buy brand-new steel unless otherwise told, your stuff salvage it is terrific on your over-head

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Food rule of thumb

@wolfpackforge8474

6 жыл бұрын

Black Bear Forge ??? Sorry I am a cofused. Wha?

@colincreedtattoomachines

6 жыл бұрын

@Dustin Dixon, it'll be "Good rule of thumb" as the reply. The key for F is next to G.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I hate typos

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Good rule of thumb

Yes, customers should get known stuff. What would it do to your reputation if it cracked in use? But if you're in a hurry, can't you omit the annealing? I only ever bother if I'm gonna file or drill. There's alot to be said for the forgewelded type. No need to anneal to do cleanup, even thickness of toolsteel in fully submerge quenching etc.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

I never omit the annealing step on edge tools regardless of whether they are forge welded or single piece. It is a critical step in proper heat treating. Failure to properly anneal results in increases likelihood of cracks or warping.

@stefflus08

6 жыл бұрын

You are the first smith of that school I've "met". I'm in the school of triple normalization.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Interesting, I have never met anyone that didn't consider annealing to be the gold standard and normalization to be a bit less of a stress relief. Then of course it depends on the steel, some of the higher tech steels specify not to normalize and have quite specific requirements for annealing. But as long as it works for the steel your using, that's what matters.

@got2kittys

6 жыл бұрын

Steffen Dahlberg. Skipping annealing makes cracks.

@stefflus08

6 жыл бұрын

gotnokittys I'm not going to debate it on a statement basis. And this is hardly the place to come dragging pictures and links. Sufficed to say I'm not plagued with cracking. On that note, John Switzer is on to something in that I use simpler steels. 5160 is not what I'd call simple. Also, see 9:40 : kzread.info/dash/bejne/mH13ltVxc72ogaw.html

Good advice here. False economy as you say is a plague, and once you say "ok, i'm gonna go for the expensive stuff and do it right" you alwaaaays wish you did that long ago.

Is it harmful to your health?

My question is how can you charge somebody hundreds of dollars when you're using scrap steel?

@BlackBearForge

3 жыл бұрын

Labor cost are more than 90% of any project. Steel costs are minimal. But scrap can increase time spent and actually increase cost when you need to deal with testing material properties or distressing prior to use.

Could I get you to send that to me? The large piece of green adze material.

@BlackBearForge

6 жыл бұрын

Probably not. I think i can find some good non edge tool uses for it.

@shifty3453

6 жыл бұрын

Black Bear Forge I will buy it.