The RISE, FALL, & COMEBACK of ONITSUKA TIGER

THECASUAL is the home of international fashion, lifestyle, and business based in Tokyo, Japan.

In this episode of RISE&FALL Reggie breaks down the growth of Onitsuka Tiger and how it retro sneakers became its calling card.

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Пікірлер: 156

  • @Sabundy
    @Sabundy2 жыл бұрын

    Onitsuka Tiger and Asics in general are criminally underrated. Their importance to the history of sports brands and shoes in general is huge. And sadly overlooked by far too many people. And aside from their history, pedigree, and importantance Asics makes really good quality and among the best football ⚽ boots, tennis 🎾 shoes, volleyball 🏐 shoes, rugby 🏉 boots, and of course running shoes 👟. And the durability and build quality of their products tends to be better than that of their peers.

  • @santiagosegovia8756

    @santiagosegovia8756

    2 жыл бұрын

    I always wanted their wresting shoe but to expensive

  • @mpkp2011

    @mpkp2011

    2 жыл бұрын

    Best shoes out there. I've been running in the same Asics trainers for like 7 years now and they're just starting to wear out from my sharp ass toe nails. Amazing shoes. My Onitsukas have been holding up great for even longer too

  • @atharwasi4770

    @atharwasi4770

    Жыл бұрын

    And i hope they stays like that so they dont crank up the price.

  • @-Only.Facts-

    @-Only.Facts-

    11 ай бұрын

    I love my Adidas, it's the only brand I have...last week I bought my first pair of Asics (Venture 8)...im completely blown away by the comfort, it makes me not want to wear my other sneakers. Asics comfort is 2nd to none.

  • @Sabundy

    @Sabundy

    11 ай бұрын

    @@-Only.Facts- I had a similar experience. Used to buy Nike and Adidas. Then tried Asics and have not looked back.

  • @dfrees42
    @dfrees422 жыл бұрын

    To the real sneaker heads these never went out off style

  • @adrianprieto6111

    @adrianprieto6111

    11 ай бұрын

    I support your comment.. might be popular opinion, but Bruce Lee made me love the yellow and black, and than the black mamba too

  • @estbeta

    @estbeta

    Ай бұрын

    I’ve owned Tigers since I was 14. I’m 28 now and still get a new pair every once in a while. Tigers are the coolest, most comfortable sneakers out there

  • @chuanyong5442
    @chuanyong5442 Жыл бұрын

    I love their shoes. They took me to a lot of places without leaving a single blister. No break in period nothing. Well designed well made. They are expensive but worth every penny.

  • @lovedogspaintedmusic
    @lovedogspaintedmusic2 жыл бұрын

    Bro, can you make a video about NB on how big new balance in japan is. What models are popular and do on. Tnx bro, more powa

  • @FernandoHatsumura

    @FernandoHatsumura

    2 жыл бұрын

    True. Especially the Made in England ones - those are very sought after in Japan.

  • @Christofion
    @Christofion2 жыл бұрын

    absolutely excellent video bro- I love all the research you put in and how you deliver that info in a digestible way :)) super entertaining but informative

  • @juanurquidi1585
    @juanurquidi15852 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for shouting out the OT clothing line line. It's a super affordable way to get that Japanese silhouette in your wardrobe if you're still entry level. Got the OT x Andrea Pompilio denim jacket over a year ago and it NEVER leaves the rotation.

  • @groovieXL
    @groovieXL2 жыл бұрын

    Surprisingly, even Australia jumped on the Tiger bandwagon in the late 00’s / early 2010’s and I got caught in the hype too, collecting multiple pairs (even gifted one to my mum). The bubble busted and their presence has taken a step back. Though I do agree the Nippon made range are probably the ones now that are worth some attention. That being said, awesome video - keep them coming! Perhaps, a segment on Kurume and it’s impact on Japan’s footwear culture :)

  • @rustyreams7433
    @rustyreams7433 Жыл бұрын

    The commentary, presentation and Japanese was on point! You are the complete package!

  • @brandohardy7914
    @brandohardy79142 жыл бұрын

    love onitsuka the GSM is the most comfortable shoe i’ve ever owned it’s high quality and has virtually 0 break in time 😃

  • @codekhalil6437
    @codekhalil6437 Жыл бұрын

    Mexico 66 are pound for pound, the best sneaker aesthetically. The lines are like a sleek racing car. You look fast, even when standing still. The sign of a beautiful shoe.

  • @wristygymnast1384
    @wristygymnast13842 жыл бұрын

    Had a pair of black on black leather/white sole high tops back in the day (00s). Most versatile pair ever

  • @pepeBtown
    @pepeBtown Жыл бұрын

    Instant sub. Context, detail, effort… man I can see you care, I can see you put the work in. I’m half way through this review and it is polished… I look forward to browsing through your catalog. I wish you the best of luck man. Love.

  • @1whospeaks
    @1whospeaks Жыл бұрын

    Crazy how its both my cheapest pair and my favourite, the Mexico Mid Runners, something I got for a miraculous 30 bucks. Hell yeah they're athletic shoes, every shoe nowadays is like 3 inches of rubber and foam to brute force comfort, but the feeling of being able to walk basically barefoot but simultaneously being top tier in comfort is nothing short of legendary.

  • @anaberibot
    @anaberibot2 жыл бұрын

    Big fan since I was a kid. Am now 31. Exclusively buy Onitsuka Tigers and Asics for casual and workoout. It's the most comfortable, is a unique shoe with unique history, and the quality is superior.

  • @Sabundy

    @Sabundy

    Жыл бұрын

    Agree with you 100%. Me too

  • @bandy6366

    @bandy6366

    Жыл бұрын

    Me too!

  • @TheUnholyPosole
    @TheUnholyPosole2 жыл бұрын

    I've been rocking OT for the past 10 years, they're my favorite gym shoes.

  • @69Muscle
    @69Muscle Жыл бұрын

    Great video - very interesting! Just bought a pair of the Tiger Mexico 66. These are possibly the coolest retro sneakers I’ve ever seen. Unbelievably cool.

  • @christopherburtjr4998
    @christopherburtjr49982 жыл бұрын

    I’m excited for this video.

  • @CHOPSBOWLS1
    @CHOPSBOWLS12 жыл бұрын

    I got the Mexico 66 for my wife and she swears they’re the most comfortable pair of sneakers she’s ever owned

  • @goosebumps2048
    @goosebumps20482 жыл бұрын

    Nice video! Well researched. Although being under the Asics umbrella, Onitsuka Tiger is run completely as it's own brand. It is striving to trend towards the luxury market. One thing you've missed is their new line called "The Onitsuka" a very elegant line of footwear with Japanese craftsmanship. Dedicated The Onitsuka stores exist and we will likely see many more in the future. Of course the classics and heritage models will always be most people's go to, it interesting to see how the brand is progressing and moving further away from its sports roots.

  • @MrPedroGRodriguez

    @MrPedroGRodriguez

    2 жыл бұрын

    Dope to see someone mention THE ONITSUKA.

  • @MrVico7
    @MrVico72 жыл бұрын

    It's amazing that you made a video about Onitsuka Tiger. I just bought my first made in Japan pair today! Coincidence, I don't think so :)

  • @maneeshahooja
    @maneeshahooja6 ай бұрын

    Informative. Thank you.

  • @gra5223
    @gra52232 жыл бұрын

    I’ve been wearing them for the last 4 years. Not many people wear them. I love them. I get tons of compliments on em.

  • @Sabundy

    @Sabundy

    2 жыл бұрын

    Tons of people in Asia wear them

  • @catnip4587

    @catnip4587

    8 ай бұрын

    Very popular in NYC

  • @venky2761
    @venky27612 жыл бұрын

    Just found out about onitsuka yesterday and you posted a vid bout it today

  • @likesneaker3238
    @likesneaker32382 жыл бұрын

    Great video, love both the Asics and OT brands. I did a review on the 'Bruce Lee' Mexico 66 Yellow pair and you are right, they were multiple ones used in the Game of Death movie, including a white pair! I believe the yellow pair were the Moonstar Jaguars! 🤔

  • @MudaSHoleProductions
    @MudaSHoleProductions Жыл бұрын

    I owned a pair of Onitsuka Tigers before I got into collecting sneakers recently when I randomly decided to buy sneakers that were on sale on Nike and Adidas. Onitsuka Tigers are honestly criminally underrated and are great looking shoes. Not only that but I did use their Ultimate 88 for running and they did very well for that purpose too (yeah they're kinda beat up now but they can still keep going tbh).

  • @FernandoHatsumura
    @FernandoHatsumura2 жыл бұрын

    These are beautiful shoes. The Nippon Made are the ones to go - superior quality and amazing craftsmanship.

  • @Phlegm_Thrower
    @Phlegm_Thrower2 жыл бұрын

    I just mentioned Onitsuka Tiger to Antwon last week. I bought the Mexico 66 a while ago. Quite a pricey sneaker, but as a low top sneaker, I prefer it over the equally classic Chuck Taylor. More comfortable too as it has a bit more cushioning with the mid sole.

  • @ursotedio

    @ursotedio

    2 жыл бұрын

    man, i paid around $25 for a pair of yellow mexicos on asics website here in Brazil last year. A steal! lol

  • @mattmao47

    @mattmao47

    Жыл бұрын

    I remember buying them for as low as $50 around 2 years ago. Sneakerheads have been driving up the prices for it.

  • @mirosawirzyk5247
    @mirosawirzyk52472 жыл бұрын

    I have few pairs of Onisuka Tiger - Nippon Made GSMs the shoes are the best made I bought in my life...

  • @seanmcmillan472
    @seanmcmillan4722 жыл бұрын

    Great video

  • @nicoursillo6181
    @nicoursillo61812 жыл бұрын

    Just bought ASICS today. Great video.

  • @chrislonergan8859
    @chrislonergan88592 жыл бұрын

    I managed to grab a pair of the Street Fighter's and they are 🔥, great video.

  • @tungvu
    @tungvu2 жыл бұрын

    Appreciate the history lesson!

  • @edgarposada7732
    @edgarposada77322 жыл бұрын

    I’m trying to look more into Kahachiro Onitsuka but there’s little to English documentation on his life. Thanks for this super educational video!

  • @codewrite_
    @codewrite_ Жыл бұрын

    I had a pair of all black Tigers back in the early 2000s and absolutely loved. Wore the literal soles off of them. Onitsuka is second to Dragonbeard if I am looking to get a killer pair of Japanese sneakers. Wore those until they fell apart too. Now I can't easily get a pair 😭

  • @scootch7
    @scootch7 Жыл бұрын

    Well done video. Came here after looking at some Tigers.

  • @GabrielTvrs
    @GabrielTvrs2 жыл бұрын

    man im starting to pick up interest in fashion because of your channel, u make such a great content! love from brazil!

  • @IamQUUMing
    @IamQUUMing2 жыл бұрын

    Onitsuka Tiger was the compnay that the founder of Nike worked with before creating his own brand. He based some his technology on theirs

  • @Sabundy

    @Sabundy

    Жыл бұрын

    He also visited their operation in Japan and got a lot of ideas for how to create a sports brand/company

  • @IAmInfinitus208

    @IAmInfinitus208

    Жыл бұрын

    All the more reason why I enjoy both Asics and Nike to this day despite the limited collaboration they once had.

  • @peltich7535
    @peltich7535 Жыл бұрын

    Just picked up 2 vintage pairs today from the thrift! They look so freaking cool!

  • @codekhalil6437

    @codekhalil6437

    Жыл бұрын

    It has been many a person's goal to find Tigers at a thrift. Congrats! what ones did you find?

  • @DarylDSpivey
    @DarylDSpivey2 жыл бұрын

    I always have at least 3 pairs of Tigers on standby.

  • @alejandroramirez4470
    @alejandroramirez44702 жыл бұрын

    I don't have a pair of the older stuff like bruce lee wore but I did see them at journey's last year or so. I have a green pair of gel lyte shoes and they're nice for the price. Definitely wouldn't mind another colorway in the near future.

  • @FashionBusinessMastermind
    @FashionBusinessMastermind2 жыл бұрын

    Got my self the yellow pair after watching your video :-D

  • @elpanteroazul3474
    @elpanteroazul34742 жыл бұрын

    ASICS gel suedes were the best casual shoe ever. Wish they would come back. Wore them business casual all the time.

  • @tunghoang9352
    @tunghoang93522 жыл бұрын

    Super cool. Learned a ton. Only nitpick...Abebe Bikila was wearing PUMAs

  • @cryosleeper1119
    @cryosleeper1119 Жыл бұрын

    Been wearing these for 4 years. Love em. Keep them next to my other retro trainers like Adidas Samba, Adidas Jeans, Gola, and Puma classics. These shoes will never really go out of style. I will be wearing them when I am 80 😹

  • @mohammedsultan948
    @mohammedsultan948 Жыл бұрын

    very informative video 👍👍🤝

  • @David_Watts
    @David_Watts3 ай бұрын

    What an absolutely BEAUTIFUL review on what has become my personal favorite sneaker brand!! While I don't subscribe to everything they do, what I do like happens to work really well for me on many fronts, mainly fashion and durability. The New York line is VERY classic and reminiscent of my 70's childhood. And the EDR 78 line are probably the best made sneakers for the price I've seen since back in the day.... Onitsuka Tiger are the shit and I hope they continue to provide the lines mentioned, although it doesn't look like it because they're so damn progressive, they hit and run, making one-offs that may never be seen again. That's disappointing, indeed.... If it ain't broke, don't fix it!! Oh, and the Serrano is and EXCELLENT driving shoe!! 🙏🙏

  • @crimsonblad5
    @crimsonblad52 жыл бұрын

    They bought out my favorite sneaker store in Philly, UBIQ! I was kinda upset but they have some good stuff

  • @reezevlog
    @reezevlog2 жыл бұрын

    i love Japanese brands….can u do in-depth of the Mizuno brand…or even Yonex..

  • @j.w.matney8390
    @j.w.matney8390 Жыл бұрын

    Starting in 1972, I had several pairs of the original Cortez and later the Corsairs. It's really hard to find the Corsairs these days.

  • @foreverconstant
    @foreverconstant2 жыл бұрын

    I have some asic tiger gel lytes tai chi yellow’s I bought during the pandemic in inspiration of what Bruce Lee wore in “Game of Death” . I also bought the whole jump suit but have yet to wear it in public .😂

  • @nabilmounir1946
    @nabilmounir19462 жыл бұрын

    I'm from North Africa, Morocco, and I wear tiger from 2007, it's the best for me

  • @dentboxhero1717
    @dentboxhero1717 Жыл бұрын

    I love the Mexico 66s. I only get the Nippon Made Mexico 66 and winterized suede Mexico 66s.

  • @crownzsplace
    @crownzsplace Жыл бұрын

    That’s crazy, you menssioned Bruce Lee and Kill Bill in the same video. Favorite Marshall Artist and one of my favorite modern swordplay movies. Yah, you made my day.

  • @juhel5531
    @juhel5531 Жыл бұрын

    I have a rinkan boot and california 78x. They look pretty good and go with anything but holy cow is the toe box narrow. I had to remove the insoles and then loosen the laces so much before my toes could fit without pain. The fashion where I'm from is to remove the laces altogether but I don't like that look so I just loosened them. Before I loosened the laces and removed the insoles, the tight toe box squeezed my toes in this weird way that made me unconsciously flex my calves and hamstrings til it hurt.

  • @GET0V3RHERE
    @GET0V3RHERE2 жыл бұрын

    This was fun. I always respected the brand, but was confused about its link with Asics, ‘til now. Thanks! By the way, I still think we’re due for Rise & Fall: Karmaloop.

  • @THECASUALco

    @THECASUALco

    2 жыл бұрын

    Yup we certainly owe a Karmaloop

  • @JohnnyDiesel88
    @JohnnyDiesel8811 ай бұрын

    My friend in highschool had Ultimate 81s in all colors. I never paid them any mind. I was always following the Nike trend, air force 1s etc. Finally caved one day at the mall and picked up a pair of Serranos, it was a life changing moment. Just trying them on at the store I felt an instant connection to the brand. That was over 10 years ago lol. Today and probably forever all you’ll see on my feet are Onitsuka Tigers. I’m a bit of a Japanese fanboy but still, the quality and craftsmanship of their lineup is top notch. I’m ordering a new pair of Serranos as we speak lol. They’re lightweight, super durable, and fit your feet like a glove. I feel like Bruce Lee ready to kick a hole in the wall when I wear them😂. If you read this and you’ve never owned a pair of Ultimate 81, or my personal favorite the Serranos, buy a pair. You’ll thank me later 😊

  • @ChicagoTurtle1
    @ChicagoTurtle12 жыл бұрын

    Critical history. Lit!!

  • @imaXkillXya
    @imaXkillXya2 жыл бұрын

    I love the Asics Novablast.

  • @mrc302
    @mrc302 Жыл бұрын

    Starting wearing Asics in 1986. My only complaint is I have D width foot and have to buy EE (which aren't made in all styles). Was told D Width are cut differently than other brands of running shoes.🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

  • @n1968m
    @n1968m2 жыл бұрын

    After Adidas, which I own a lot of, Onitsuka are my favourite brand. Love the silhouette of the Mexico but Corsair’s are my favourite.

  • @morninglory8988
    @morninglory89882 жыл бұрын

    Three are beautiful Onitsuka Tiger Rinkan Boots in dark purple that im trying to get but I need them to get on sale.

  • @njsr1
    @njsr14 ай бұрын

    No longer selling to US customers through the Onitsuka Tiger website as of November 30th 2023.

  • @bobgardinger206
    @bobgardinger2062 жыл бұрын

    Really nicely done! I've always wondered if Tarantino was singlehandedly responsible for Onitsuka Tiger's comeback. I read that Kill Bill was not a product placement, that Quentin wanted Uma wearing what Bruce Lee had worn, and that they approached Asics. I know Asics promoted Onitsudka Tiger heavily from then on, but had they just happened to be planning a comeback or was it all because of Kill Bill?

  • @Sabundy

    @Sabundy

    Жыл бұрын

    Good question. I wonder about that too....🤔🤔🤔

  • @lalaboards
    @lalaboards Жыл бұрын

    This is what we wore in the 70's .Great shoes .

  • @Ozaiyah
    @Ozaiyah11 ай бұрын

    On full display

  • @cyko.design
    @cyko.design Жыл бұрын

    Taichi was my favorite pair of sneakers. It is unfortunately out of production. Any stories to why that is?

  • @Barnaby_bo
    @Barnaby_bo9 ай бұрын

    Anyone know where they are made?

  • @Unxpekted
    @Unxpekted2 жыл бұрын

    Absolutely love Asics, collect a ton of GLIII etc.

  • @Sabundy

    @Sabundy

    Жыл бұрын

    Very cool 😎👍👍

  • @francispalomo2201
    @francispalomo22017 ай бұрын

    Big fan here...and influenced my family

  • @etagged
    @etagged2 жыл бұрын

    You should do an ASICS sport style video.. with some kiko ASICS 👀

  • @ce_rouse
    @ce_rouse2 жыл бұрын

    2:46 Got me all hungry now!😋

  • @justanothernpc5762
    @justanothernpc57622 жыл бұрын

    Can you talk more about Moonstar I can't find much about the brand online at all

  • @DoritosResidue
    @DoritosResidue2 жыл бұрын

    Man in the early 2000s these were hard to come by. You can only find them in specialty fashion stores. Can't believe they are trending again.

  • @rambo68
    @rambo68 Жыл бұрын

    Should i choose it over nike air force 1?

  • @rigovstheworld
    @rigovstheworld2 жыл бұрын

    HISTORY OF CARHARTT!!!

  • @makasii
    @makasii2 жыл бұрын

    03:00 he solved the grip e-shoe 😅

  • @leebishop7591
    @leebishop75912 жыл бұрын

    Remember JNCO? And can someone tell me why JAMs WORLD clothing is so high on the resale value? How Sway?

  • @ayeTobi
    @ayeTobi2 жыл бұрын

    Yeah, a lot of Thai people love wearing those.

  • @seunhonour4371
    @seunhonour4371 Жыл бұрын

    I have two pare of them

  • @chadapornbuatuen6024
    @chadapornbuatuen6024 Жыл бұрын

    Felix looks so much happier than last few years

  • @alfonsopayan09
    @alfonsopayan092 жыл бұрын

    Need one from New balance 👀 seen those basketball and the deal with Jack Harlow Things getting good for them

  • @carcol04
    @carcol042 жыл бұрын

    dont they sell clothes ?

  • @nobetter7747
    @nobetter77472 жыл бұрын

    id rock these over adidas, new balance (havent found a pair i like enough ), chucks, and airforces

  • @mitchmitchell9588
    @mitchmitchell95882 жыл бұрын

    Let's be honest: you are showing off a bit with your Japanese pronunciation (and don't think that "Adidas" auf Deutsch slipped by). But it's actually very nice to hear Japanese words pronounced correctly. My buzz will get shaved by the end of the day when someone butchers the word "karaoke". As for Onitsuka, one of the key markets that helped it grow (and in which it always had a strong presence) is wrestling shoes. The famed "Dan Gables" are classic and continue to evolve. Vintage ones are pricey on eBay. The originals were like a hi-top version of Mexico 66. Last point, I really love the "Nippon Made" line from Onitsuka. Maybe I'm old and nostalgic, but I really appreciate the days when Japan made high quality stuff, like Technics 1200s and Isuzu 117 Coupes. The regular Onitsuka line is great and I wear them on the regular, but the "Nippon Made" versions are awesome and a world apart. I wish more companies would do "boutique" lines that are made in Japan.

  • @THECASUALco

    @THECASUALco

    2 жыл бұрын

    😅 On the language bit… I’m always gonna be a student of the Japanese language if I don’t pronounce it correctly I fear the ghosts of my former professor would haunt me. The adidas one is just being a student of language period but I’m glad someone appreciates it! On your other notes, thanks for the added info! Whenever we rehash Onitsuka I’ll be sure to add it to the story.

  • @mitchmitchell9588

    @mitchmitchell9588

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@THECASUALco Nephew, your pronunciation of all those foreign brands and phrases is excellent. Like you, I continue to study Japanese. Keep learning. And if I didn't say it earlier, this was an excellent and informative video. Well done.

  • @rigovstheworld
    @rigovstheworld2 жыл бұрын

    and how it’s worked it’s way up to mainstream celebs! kanye, rihanna, asap rocky

  • @ngtf6358
    @ngtf63588 ай бұрын

    Hi, are there people who bought clothes through an online store? I don't know my size and I wanted to ask people who have already made purchases to inform me about my size

  • @0518gassab
    @0518gassab2 жыл бұрын

    brand of your shirt please. :)

  • @THECASUALco

    @THECASUALco

    2 жыл бұрын

    It’s a sample of a project we’re working on.

  • @sunsetlights100
    @sunsetlights1002 жыл бұрын

    Big fan tiger sports shoes Mex

  • @2nuts4cars
    @2nuts4cars2 жыл бұрын

    You're losing me with the social commentary videos, not that I disagree or think you are wrong about anything, I'm just tired of them in general. But you got me back with informative videos like this one...

  • @THECASUALco

    @THECASUALco

    2 жыл бұрын

    That’s why we do both🫡

  • @nimmy404
    @nimmy4042 жыл бұрын

    Think because of the comeback of the retro classic "new balance", onitsuka tiger may have the same treatment

  • @seansees
    @seanseesАй бұрын

    Can we get an investigative update on why Onitsuka has pulled all sales from the U.S.? 👀

  • @zunzoku
    @zunzoku2 жыл бұрын

    After watching this I wanna be part of that gel lyfe

  • @ANIL-ul1qb
    @ANIL-ul1qbАй бұрын

    ❤❤❤❤❤❤

  • @rigovstheworld
    @rigovstheworld2 жыл бұрын

    HISTORY OF CARHARTT

  • @itmfl2046
    @itmfl20462 жыл бұрын

    I feel like Asics Gel Lyte III are the most slept on sneakers in the US. I know the GL3 gets respect in Japan and Europe, but US sneakerheads are too focused on hype or resell value to realize how great GL3's are. As a big fan of the sneaker, I actually dont mind that. Just making an observation.

  • @eljjtp
    @eljjtp Жыл бұрын

    what's crazy is asic makes the SAME SHOE unter the asics name for 50% cheaper with a different label

  • @tasnimaiman2641
    @tasnimaiman2641Ай бұрын

    Shout out pavilion kl

  • @dragon23ggg
    @dragon23ggg2 жыл бұрын

    Tai chi, mexico, corsair 😁

  • @frederickjones2483
    @frederickjones24832 жыл бұрын

    You are like everything about cars but about shoes

  • @frederickjones2483

    @frederickjones2483

    2 жыл бұрын

    Donut media vibe

  • @mikloridden8276
    @mikloridden82762 жыл бұрын

    My favorite brand! Kinda dont like how they let in too much French influence lately tho, it goes against their spirit in my opinion

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