“You can’t make a baby in one month with 9 women.” I going to use this next time I come across a customer that needed their project done yesterday.

@marcelbritsch5127

3 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks%27s_law

@strive4208

3 жыл бұрын

Keeping this one in memory as well 🤔

@shido8597

3 жыл бұрын

69 likes, Nice!

@TheSteveTheDragon

3 жыл бұрын

Challenge accepted!

@Panyc333

3 жыл бұрын

Do it Right Do it Cheap Do it Fast You can only ever get two of the three. The one left over is what it won’t be.

"I don't know what CD in their name means but it's not continuous delivery" Man that guy ROASTS

@deckardp.i.4088

3 жыл бұрын

Seedy PublicRelations

@DodaGarcia

3 жыл бұрын

The British deadpan delivery makes it even better 👌👌👌

@cinnamon-skateboarding5987

3 жыл бұрын

CD comes from their history of working with CD’s.

@kenjinmishima9928

3 жыл бұрын

@@deckardp.i.4088 😂

@nnighter4940

3 жыл бұрын

@@cinnamon-skateboarding5987 cd in their name stands for distribution centre as they used to be a game publisher before developing the witcher.

"Apple doesnt pre-announce their products" I wholly agree. The biggest mistake CDPR made with Cyberpunk was announcing it EIGHT YEARS AGO.

@lilanesut

3 жыл бұрын

I think it was to get more investors to invest into cd project to fund them to build the game

@Noumakara

3 жыл бұрын

It was because they wanted to create hype and get more investors. Apple is a trillion dollar company and doesn’t have to do that.

@mulyanax3921

3 жыл бұрын

Announcing the game is different with announcing the release date.... The false move cdpr did, was annoucing the release date even when the game was not ready....

@InsomniacDoggo

3 жыл бұрын

@@mulyanax3921 you are right that announcing a game is different from setting a release date. But you are wrong in that it was the release date that fucked them. Because they announced the game so early people were even more impatient and had hyped up the game to god-like levels. The pressure was on them to release the game as soon as they could because of how long people had been waiting for it. Personally I dont believe that a game should even be announced to the public and given a release date until the game has gone Gold.

@ccloak

3 жыл бұрын

The teaser was fine, then years later, marketing started to talk too much about what you can do in the game(even though many of those were not even made to work yet). Note that in comparison, Rockstar only provide teaser trailers and very vaguely tells what the game does on their games around this time. I believe even in E3 2013, the same year GTAV is due to come out, RS did not show GTAV, or show much at all about it. Of coz, not to mention, when Rockstar games became bigger and bigger in scope, they started to develop with one or two platforms at a time, such as they did 360/PS3 first on GTAV, then a year later for One/PS4, then finally another half a year later they release PC. RDR2 also have a year gap between console and PC release. RS knew GTA4 was a really bad PC game at launch so they learnt to do it one by one. With CP2077, it was obvious they should only launch on PC first, then later on launch on both last gen and current gen(PS3/360 still see AAA titles 1-2 years after next gen). I still think they should have delayed to Q1 2021 at least. They have the great pandemic excuse to use this time and they still rush release it anyway for the money.

"You can't make a baby in one month with nine women." BUT I WANT TO TRY!

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Good luck with that, but you will have to supply your own 9 women 😁

@therealkillersavage

3 жыл бұрын

The problem is if you try this and things go a certain way you end up with 9 babies in 9 months. That’s where you are fucked on time and scope and hadn’t thought things through.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

@@therealkillersavage That is the more scalable approach though, your average productivity is a baby per month, but the latency is a problem - you still have to wait the 9 months to get the answer 🤣

@maniacsangel9046

3 жыл бұрын

@@therealkillersavage Plus there is a possibility to get Twins or in rare cases 3 or more Children at once.

@t3hpwninat0r

3 жыл бұрын

@@maniacsangel9046 and that's how we get unexpectedly increased costs 😯

"Small Teams are more efficient". It's no wonder indies are killing it these days.

@VergilHiltsLT

3 жыл бұрын

Smaller teams have better coordination and planning simply because... there's less people. Less people means less questions, more stability (less chance any of them will quit), less human error and a smaller difference in competence, which makes managing easier. Big games of the past like Silent Hill 3 were built by roughly 20-30 people.

@noop9k

3 жыл бұрын

Survivor bias

@awesomeddz1rt

3 жыл бұрын

Big team split into smaller sub teams sure. But saying that smaller team is better is a pure speculation. Yes on isolated cases where amount of software needed is small, sure, but if you need to build a proper big software with a lot of interconnected small teams performance drops because management becomes extremely important. So isolated speculation is great, but well I feel like I just wasted time watching this and read some comments

@Nyixta

3 жыл бұрын

and why Valve is so small.

@fintan.

3 жыл бұрын

@@awesomeddz1rt yeah, if you take triple A games like forza/grandturismo or call of duty they have huge teams.

I worked as a game programmer for 7 years on 2 AAA games at Ubisoft. All delay problems, all software quality problems were coming from basically one source: constant changes by game designers. When you keep asking modifications, but don't change milestone dates, the code suffers a lot (you have to make quick changes/fixes), so you get more bugs and they are harder to fix. Game designers are the weakest link in game development. Their constant changes waste a lot of time.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

A Continuous Delivery approach is the answer to this problem. It feels expensive, because you spend a little more time on each change to finish it to production quality, but you get that time back, in future when it becomes easier, and safer, to change things. Teams that work this ware are "spend 44% more time on new features" rather than on bug-fixing or re-work!

@robertforster8984

3 жыл бұрын

Was one of them Assassins Creed: Unity perchance?

@V4zz33

3 жыл бұрын

@@dinadanalcedines628 This probably happens in every industry. In the end they ask, where did all the money go?... I think even 50/50 is bad like how it was where I've worked before.

@Flakzor123

3 жыл бұрын

@@V4zz33 Oh it happens in every field. A single moron in sales not understanding the supply and making "huge" deals can lead to a whole factory working overtime for a month to catch up. It's a bad idea at the best of times but if/when your products also end up with a much higher return rate due to lower quality (either from exhausted workforce or more unqualified staff to offload some of the work) you end up with significant costs at both ends of the screwup.

@V4zz33

3 жыл бұрын

@@Flakzor123 Haha, give me a company where there is just a "single moron in sales"!!!;)))))))))))))) We've asked the sales guys at this particular company, pls,, when the system shows, we have 40 units in stock of most things, come out, and ask us,, or check the stock. 95% of the time they didn't do it so we just ended up pissing off customers because the leftover 40 units were unsuitable for them... Sales ppl are a different animals altogether.;)) You're 100% correct.

You know it's bad when a software engineering channel who is nowhere near a gaming channel starts talking about your game.

@mjkpolo7313

3 жыл бұрын

😂

@MatthewStinar

3 жыл бұрын

Him: Magical thinking. Me: You mispronounced "management."

@JuanRV73

3 жыл бұрын

This actually has a HUGE point, ppl has said that devops doesnt apply to videogames (which is software). Time is proving them wrong

@joranmulderij

Жыл бұрын

Or really good

6:00 CD in CD Projekt didn't come from "Compact Disk" but it's full name in Polish - "Centrum Dystrybucji Projekt" ("Center of Distribution Project", the "Projekt" isn't stylized, it's just "project" in Polish.) as two founders started selling pirated, then after fall of communism and passing copyright laws in Poland, legal copies of games. What made them special was the fact that they made fully localized versions with great dubbing sometimes from top-notch popular actors in Poland (Legendary Polish version of Baldur's Gate.) which were way cheaper than in the west, but only available in Polish in order to popularize legal copies in Poland and make profit when wages were low.

@squarecircle1473

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I saw a documentary on that once. Was nice to see where their no-DRM attitude stems from.

@leobustos740

3 жыл бұрын

@@squarecircle1473 so disheartening to learn that they come from such a consumer-first bussiness attitude and they ended up licking the soles of shareholders to the point where they released an absolutely half baked product that diminished the value of their name.

@squarecircle1473

3 жыл бұрын

@@leobustos740 True. Very true.

@kenjinmishima9928

3 жыл бұрын

@@leobustos740 Gotta answer to shareholders when you're public.

@filovirus1

2 жыл бұрын

thanks cap'n!

5:55 "I don't know what CD in their name means, but it's not Continuous Delivery." 😂

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Sadly not.

@Jah0011

3 жыл бұрын

Well CD states for Compact Disc, as the company started as a platform selling games on CDs 25 years ago, when internet distribution was not possible yet.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jah0011 :)

@SurzhenkoAndrii

3 жыл бұрын

CD means that you always have new features, not stability of the product.

@LB14745

3 жыл бұрын

Continuous Deceiving.

Poor guy, now we’re forcing him to become a gaming channel

@Coldsteak

3 жыл бұрын

a fate worse than death

@TheHiddenNarrative

3 жыл бұрын

He’s become the very thing he sought to destroy...

@iplaybose

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao

"while it does mention fancy coffee and seven different types of milk, it doesn't once mention testing" As a QA-test engineer, I felt this one! Such a shame they did not put more time and money is quality testing.

@Spinikar

3 жыл бұрын

As a developer, I wish my company invested more in QA and testing.......

@1738Creations

3 жыл бұрын

As someone who wasted 14 years of their life in game testing for real studios, no one ever gives QA money. Pitifully low paid. Beyond insulting. We rarely even get free t-shirts. My first job in corporate testing paid 8k more than the most senior game testing job. Equipment is minimal and they hire any old garbage who say they like playing games. Literally. Shout-out to EA for having their worldwide top performing UK team train all an entirely new test team in Romania... then fire their entire UK team with 1 weeks notice. Didn't see that coming. If I did I wouldn't have wasted a decade working for that scum...

@leobustos740

3 жыл бұрын

@@1738Creations From a consumer's perspective it seems the norm has become to let US be the testers instead of rightfully compensating people for the job.

@piotrd.4850

3 жыл бұрын

At some point, QA and testing are not needed - without changing lifestyle, buying new scale every day won't change fact that person is obese as frak.

@thegeforce6625

3 жыл бұрын

@@leobustos740 and that notion is slowing moving to the consumer software market too, I’m looking at you, Windows/Microsoft.

"It will release when it's ready" should be the rule - but never let it go Duke Nukem Forever

@shaunmcisaac782

3 жыл бұрын

Never Go Duke Nukem Forever!

@HateMachinist

3 жыл бұрын

The usual conflict between creative teams versus economic departments and leadership - who promise unrealistic things and deadlines to investors and interest groups - is the core of any failed game or TV series these days...

@Pushing_Pixels

3 жыл бұрын

Or Star Citizen...

@DodaGarcia

3 жыл бұрын

It takes so much discipline to finish something without a deadline though After seeing this video, for my future projects (which are music videos, and always end up late or released not fully finished) I'm thinking of always working one of two ways: either 1) only setting a release date once the video is fully finished or 2) picturing a barebones, MVP version of the video, finishing that, and *then* setting a release date until when we'll continually improve the video. Then I'd choose either method on a case by case basis.

@redgrey758

3 жыл бұрын

They need to bring back BLOOD

Software Engineers: "Yes, this makes total sense" Gaming companies: ".. but our shareholders..."

@CultofThings

3 жыл бұрын

...Will sue you for security fraud.

@chukkie0001

3 жыл бұрын

@@CultofThings But they also push for the release.

@IamSpacedad

3 жыл бұрын

@@chukkie0001 From what it looks like, the shareholders were not doing that - they were instead kept in the dark and willfully mislead by the CDPR management about the state of the game.

@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult

3 жыл бұрын

@@IamSpacedad do you have any sources? I am interested in knowing the dirt that happened backstage

@bigchungus7050

3 жыл бұрын

@@IamSpacedad i just find that so hard after how well the witcher went, the devs seemed fantastic

His background is as if he is talking about the wonders and mystery of the universe

@DarkZerol

3 жыл бұрын

Engineers are inherently problem solvers, for the most part they take existing idea, designs, concepts, techniques and whatnot then implement them or if even necessary, improve upon them. Without engineers, the civilized world as we know would have crumbled long ago. So yes, engineers are people who basically try to unravel questions of the universe.

@areallyboredguy5825

3 жыл бұрын

What is computer science but science

@ambassador8524

3 жыл бұрын

like Neil D Tyson!

@andresaguilar4409

3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha, OG Gamer.

@MiltonStillton

3 жыл бұрын

He is tho...

"I'm not a great gamer." (Proceeds to mention "reputation in the games industry" and "reputation with gamers" as distinct things) You're already immediately more credible in regards to gaming than more than half the gaming press.

The problem is actually economics. Simply, CD Project Red became a publicly traded company after finishing Witcher 3. When this happens, a company becomes the slave of the whims of short term profits. No reviews mention this smh

@untrainedprofessionals2374

3 жыл бұрын

Correct. Summed it up perfectly.

@diegotims.8413

3 жыл бұрын

nah thats on the management too. Economics of companies that have only have one product is easy even more easy in the game industry. The most money comes in the month of the realease than provides a lower but relatives stable money flow for arround 1 year. That can be extended and boosted by DLC releases. The shareholders knows that so does the management so it can plan for it. They knew when the money comes and goes. You could even think CDP played a game with the shareholders here by announcing a release date to boost the interest. they must have known that it is not realistic. The saddest thing here is that they just had a suprise income Boost in the form of uprising TW3 sells thanks to The Witcher Netflix series

@user-wl2xl5hm7k

3 жыл бұрын

@@diegotims.8413 Agree to disagree. Are you familiar with fiduciary duty? Every single company’s management has a legal fiduciary duty to its owners. When a company becomes public they have a legal duty to make profits for all the public shareholders. This means legally, you must seek profits to the cost of everything else. This is in ADDITION to the high probability of management being replaced in shareholder voting by someone who more ruthlessly seeks profits. It’s rare, but some companies, like Nintendo (though that’s debatable in for the past couple years after Iwata’s passing) who are established in the video game industry have safeguards in the company structure that protect against the short term profit motive. However, if you’re a young company in the vg industry and you go public (like CDPR), you’re pretty much screwed out of making good games again. Though this would all have been avoided if instead of going public, CDPR became a worker’s co-op owned by all the employees- one worker one vote. I encourage you to search worker co-ops on youtube to learn more if you’re unfamiliar :)

@KuroKarma

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-wl2xl5hm7k totally agree. As Jim Sterling keeps saying "IT's C-AAA-PITALISM BABY!"

@GLouis-ln7dl

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-wl2xl5hm7k looking at CDPR's financials for the last year, seems that they were in the green, and had pulled USD$50m+ in profit for the year already (and $130m in sales, with 1 quarter to go). This is mainly from sales of their Witcher related merch and licensing. They were also in a decent cash position and could have definitely incurred more Dev time. I don't buy the argument that they were pressures to turn a profit, since CDPR group was already in a healthy financial position. Any knowledgeable Board should have known that delaying CP another quarter would have improved overall income from the game as CDPR wouldn't have had to deal with the refunds, getting pulled from Sony, and the reputational damage. Agree with you comment on employee shareholder corporate structures. Though it does introduce some challenges when trying to raise capital...

"Perfect plans are a perfectly stupid idea. They are in the realms of magic." - I should definitely tell this my boss who believes we can predict the future.

@bozoc2572

3 жыл бұрын

You can't take that statment as an absolute. Only thing intelligent thing can do is to predict the future. Precise thing to be said here is predict the future within the framework. Sorry for being pedantic.

@yacdj

3 жыл бұрын

Bioware magic ?

@tobiramasenju6290

3 жыл бұрын

If we could predict the future we'd be in the gambling halls not pounding away at a keyboard to make investors wildly rich

@bozoc2572

3 жыл бұрын

@@tobiramasenju6290 prediction of future is what enabled survival of organisms in complex environments. It's not a binary thing...

@tobiramasenju6290

3 жыл бұрын

@@bozoc2572 I guess the onus falls on how one sees "predict". I employeed it to mean seeing specified future events with clarity. The specification in this case is the turns and cracks of the gambling halls. I do see your pedantic nature showing and I might have been the one to raise concern over the specifics as well.

"You can't fix time and scope and expect people to just work harder to deliver, that's magical thinking" Nah, that's *manager* thinking ;)

@klubstompers

3 жыл бұрын

Thats a manager looking for a new job thinking.

@qixaqyx

3 жыл бұрын

Ah manglement. The people who have no idea how something functions but demand results that are contraindicated by practical methodology.

@alexlobanov7549

3 жыл бұрын

@@qixaqyx they are (pretending like they are) "practicing agile". Continuous delivery, continous anything and all this modern buzzwords. Fair talk is about "when it's ready" but it makes less money from investors. Also "small teams" has nothing to do with big projects (AAA games too). There is no such thing like big project made by small team. "agile", CI/CD made nothing like operating system or game engine. It's only modern method to do "cycles" around of engineering problems which were solved by someone else. And to solve problems which were not exist before CI/CD was introduced. But making good software is not like to play lego, though managers and methodology vendors want to pretend it is. Making good game is not equal to make good software also.

@randalldraco3822

3 жыл бұрын

We gotta hit those deadlines, do it for me asap Steve.

@odysyr

3 жыл бұрын

"You guys see Steve? He was asleep at his desk again after spending another whole night on the cop AI!" "Oh man, what a character!" "Classic Steve!"

“If you value the skills in debugging over the skills in testing you are looking in the wrong place” Such a great statement. Although I am not a tester, much of my time is spent with testers, I value their thoroughness, and I see it as a personal challenge to have them find as few problems as possible, because it means I have done my design and personal testing well.

Simple fact of the gaming industry: they dont want to test because it costs too much money. They dont want to test on a broad scale because the gaming-industry is more secretive about their crap then nearly every other industry, minus military industrys which blows the mind. This incredible stupid approach and this insistence on having releases, spoilers, whatever on „their terms“ because of ghosts the gaming industry still imagine are hurting them is making everything bad. Spoilers are not bad. After the script of The Last of Us 2 got leaked, it did nothing to hurt sales. So offer more people the chance to test the games we wouldnt be in this mess. By god.

KZread recommendation win!

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks 😊

@tedlitschauer9061

3 жыл бұрын

Same very interesting

@sabreeemneely

3 жыл бұрын

@@ContinuousDelivery Thank you

@mdog86

3 жыл бұрын

Seriously, never heard of this guy but he seems really intelligent and presents the info in an easy to understand way.

@mdog86

3 жыл бұрын

Watching the video, this guy would make a great teacher lol, if he isn't already

"You can't make a baby in 1 month with 9 women" this quote is pure gold

@omiorahman6283

3 жыл бұрын

"you can't make a baby" Infraction X Aim to the head falling plays

@marcelbritsch5127

3 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks%27s_law

@TheNateness123

3 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure he stole that from a book and whoever wrote it stole it from someone else 😂 I know I've read it somewhere

@meghanachauhan9380

3 жыл бұрын

But can you make a woman with 9 babies tho?

@frostyrobot7689

3 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month - required reading for everyone in software

Just stick to the mantra, "it'll be finished when it's finished ". Just make sure that checklist isn't a mile long.

@AdityaWaghmare

3 жыл бұрын

Or if it is a mile long, be prepared financially and be patient to not hype it too early

@stillyet

3 жыл бұрын

The problem with this, when you're building something as expensive as Cyberpunk 2077, is that the investors want to know when they are going to to be able to reap profits. However, it would have been possible to launch with fewer side-quests implemented, or, as commented, on fewer platforms. A PC only release would have been successful; I've played on PC and there are minor bugs but they're not game breaking. I'll write a longer comment at top level with a more complete analysis of where I think the problems lie.

@markhorsburgh76

3 жыл бұрын

@@stillyet if Rockstar Games can do it...

@yumri4

3 жыл бұрын

agreed and also don't add nor change said list for the finished product. The additions to it should be for add-ons, DLC, expansions or whatever it is called for the kind of software you are making

@testtestlast4306

3 жыл бұрын

This is not an option in the real world where people don't have infinite money

I love to hear this in technical way instead of "as a gamer", thank you sir :)

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks

He's dead on. I find it interesting that they delayed the game three times while actually reducing the scope of promised features from a 2018 demo.

@haitang6062

3 жыл бұрын

I think they rush the game because of ps5 just release (maybe sony want them to rush), also christmas make the game sale more

@Jo_Zh

3 жыл бұрын

If that is not overpromising, I dont know what is.

@VergilHiltsLT

3 жыл бұрын

They simply couldn't keep up, they played the overhype game by advertising as many features, finished or unfinished, to maximize profits. As time went, they realized their plan just wasn't viable, but the people were already massively hyped, and after multiple delays, there simply was no point of return.

@biosyn-ab4261

3 жыл бұрын

The game got rebooted many times lol they kept changing everything which was a stupid af decision

@monkeygamingify

3 жыл бұрын

@@haitang6062 nah higher ups rushed the game

Cyberpunk: fails this guy: My time has come

@rajeshkrish2625

3 жыл бұрын

That's the attitude everyone should have.

@Maltbyr

3 жыл бұрын

lol

@Kaylakaze

3 жыл бұрын

If only I could make millions in profits on my failures.

@ghostface1621

3 жыл бұрын

"Betty!!!!! Pack your bags, Cyberpunk failed! Del boca Vista here we come!"

@klubstompers

3 жыл бұрын

Carpe Diem

This is a trend across the gaming industry now and it is killing quality. The practice of releasing unfinished games, then a day one patch, followed by a 'road map' to basically get the game in a release-ready state, post release, after people have paid for it. One of the more frustrating sides of this is that gamers and media usually then heap praise on a dev when their game is fixed a year after release 'They kept working on it and it's now worth playing.' That should never be praised.

@KonradofKrakow

3 жыл бұрын

One simple rule: never pre-order. Pre-order culture is 100% to blame for this.

@thesunrisechick6878

3 жыл бұрын

@@KonradofKrakow completely agree

I have an engineering background and definitely recognized the problems within the game logic itself. I am almost certain that the game in its current state was thrown together within the past 1-2 years. Everything is so amateur its like they the extremely bare minimum to get things to "work". If they delayed it until holiday season next 2021 I bet it would have been in a non-trivially better state. The weirdest part? CDPR was under no market or consumer pressure to announce a release date so early -- they already set the precedent 8 years ago "out when it's ready" when they first announced it. This all could have been so gracefully avoided if they weren't so bullheaded about coming out in 2020. I guess that's what happens when almost all of your Directors are marketing people who make $1mil salary and the only director who has a degree in IT makes $60k.

@darshandhabale143

Жыл бұрын

are those actual salaries?

they should have stuck with "Coming: When it's ready"

@greenarcangel

3 жыл бұрын

the old Blizzard moto..... now see what they did to my boy....

@sharnrock

3 жыл бұрын

I've worked in software for years. With a broken process it'll never be ready. If it wasn't ready after 7 years, it wasn't going to be ready in 10 years.

@AdityaWaghmare

3 жыл бұрын

@@sharnrock Except they changed the design of the 2 years ago after they signed up Keanu

@oplik0

3 жыл бұрын

​@@sharnrock actual pre-production started late 2016, production I'd guess mid 2017 (CDPR released open beta of gwent and got some government grants for CP2077 around that time). The work before 2016 was most likely limited to basic conceptual work and consulting with Cyberpunk author (Mike Pondsmith). The fact that they paid Platige Image to make a trailer by 2013 just means that by that time they decided they were going to make a game in this universe, but if you watch that trailer it doesn't show anything actually integral to the game that wasn't in Cyberpunk 2020 (I don't remember if mantis blades were anywhere in CP2020 - I definitely remember there being some blade cyberware but I think the form was a bit different. But I haven't read all sourcebooks so it might've been somewhere), and it's pretty clear that the actual vision for the game most likely wasn't there yet. Before mid 2018 the game was in a state that allowed CDPR to make a playable demo. After this they also brought Keanu Reeves on board probably changing a lot of the story to make Johnny Silverhand more important (I think it's likely originally his role of driving the main story was taken by Morgan Blackhand, who only appears in mentions now and was even cut from Arasaka Tower assault scene [in CP2020 lore he, not Johnny, led the assault. And Johnny sacrificed himself to save the team while in the end Morgan had a duel with Smasher - the result was a mystery]. There apparently are Morgan Blackhand hair files in game though, so he even if I'm wrong about him being that important, he was definitely meant to appear at some point). So essentially the game was in development for 3, possibly 4 (if you count preproduction) years and there was likely a lot of major changes halfway through, when it already had at least a few playable missions and basic mechanics - many of which were actually changed a lot or downright removed. I'm pretty sure a year more to actually develop the concepts they ended up deciding on would've improved the game a lot. It would obviously never be perfect and the release would most likely still be buggy, but at least maybe many of the parts that just feel unfinished (there are quite a few... There are some perks that are basically broken and seem like they were supposed to work much better than they do - things like knife throwing just totally wasting valuable knives and junk removal scrapping jewelry and other items worth a lot of money seem like things so obviously broken that it must've just not been addressed in time) now would be much better and the game wouldn't be as terribly broken on launch as it was now.

@icenine135

3 жыл бұрын

@@oplik0 as much as I like Keanu, he shouldn't have been a main character. His beef with arisaka could've been a dlc or the secondary story arc.

His background runs at the same framerate as cyberpunk 😂

@farzankazi9801

3 жыл бұрын

At least he didn't take 8 years making it

@StarFox85

3 жыл бұрын

@@farzankazi9801 🤣🤣🥂

@igniii3348

3 жыл бұрын

On XB1 😂

@Savage_7_99

3 жыл бұрын

Dammnnnn👍🤣

@MajorNyberg

3 жыл бұрын

So at around 90 fps?

"Apple doesnt pre-announce their products" gaming always does this, and the only field that pre-announce games. lol

@shmel3689

3 жыл бұрын

I wanted to come up with a counter argument but after some thinking I relized that, normally, even trailers for films come out only like half a year prior to release

@Wanderlust073

3 жыл бұрын

AAA titles are more akin to blockbuster movies than new electronic products. The precedent for a campaign of interviews, trailers, hype is there. Apple doesn’t need to announce what everyone knows they manufacture/update annually, and they benefit from regular ‘leaks’ which build anticipation for new products (leaks they no longer seem to try and squelch). Admittedly game companies shoot themselves in the foot by providing release dates along with previews, but in and of itself that doesn’t sabotage development. If they choose to avoid embarrassment over a missed deadline out of some twisted sense of corporate pride by rushing out a half baked product, that’s dumb. If they feel compelled to make a ship date due to financial pain, that’s a corporate issue. But neither of those decisions are actually forced by announcing an intended ship date, no matter how optimistic.

@rocket117

3 жыл бұрын

@@shmel3689 some films are teased more than a year in advance

@xenonsan3110

3 жыл бұрын

I only know of Bethesda that tries to announce games really short to release. But people aren't happy with them RN either

@SchneiderHB

3 жыл бұрын

@@xenonsan3110 Nintendo games, which are usually very high quality and announced very shortly before release, almost as a surprise. However, like Apple, Nintendo is swimming in cash and they can afford to do this

I am continually amazed at how resistant the video game industry is to implementing best practices and methods from the general software development industry. These are not new problems, we’ve encountered these issues decades ago and developed ways to mitigate them. No modern software of comparable scale and cost is still developed like this, we know better. I’ve been doing QA testing for over a decade now and I’m horrified by some stories about how games are tested.

@hamzab6046

3 жыл бұрын

That requires human resource management and the willpower to risk losing a chunk of your profits. I'm a fresh full stack developer (web dev) and although I haven't worked on many projects, one thing we do before starting a project is determine the scope of the project beforehand and estimating how much time, effort, money, hr and other resources we'll need to complete it. Once it's all written down there's no going back from it and no adding newer functionality. This ensures that the product is as expected. You can always add new functions and features through updates and upgrades, so you don't need to rush things in order to fit everything in your initial release. With Cyberpunk 2077, I feel like they promised more than they could deliver. Along with that, they just kept on adding newer features to the initial release when they didn't need to.

@sassuki

Жыл бұрын

The myth of "BEST practices"... I love it when ONE guy writes a book calling it BEST practices, where it is just HIS opinion about what things should look like. A lot of the so-called best practices are utter rubbish! Reality is: every project needs to check what is most suitable for THAT particular project!!

"Can't make a baby in a month with nine women". Challenge accepted!

@ladybabe6958

3 жыл бұрын

i see you're man of culture

@ElInextricable

3 жыл бұрын

Jimenez! you can do it because you are the BEST! Come back from Florida soon Jimenez....

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

😳🤣

@emceeunderdogrising

3 жыл бұрын

You'll just end up with 8 more babies than you wanted and a lot of child support payments.

@billyoldman9209

3 жыл бұрын

You are a born manager.

My producer was working on CP77: "CP77 was supposed to run on old gen consoles as it was supposed to come out two years ago"

@fahmiirfan6923

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and then someone decided to scale up the scope. Well, the graphics turns out to be so great. But, they forgot about the time to deliver will getting a lot longer

@paperben

3 жыл бұрын

You simply can't properly run a such demanding game on a 7 year old console, even with the best optimization. It's like want to run GTA5 on a PS1, just nonsense

@kirururik

3 жыл бұрын

@@paperben have you played God of War? Last of us 2? They look and play amazing, stop using excuses, the hardware is fine they are just incompetent idiots

@thebufoon

3 жыл бұрын

@@paperben So you're completely ignoring many games like MK11, RDR2, TLOU2, TLOU1, GoW, GoT, Watch Dogs 2... You're another ignorant fatass claiming how computer is so powerful when back in the days (and still does) cannot run games at high settings. TW2 couldn't back in 2011-2012 because it was very detailed. There's reason why less NPC's are on the road on PC and consoles. To run normal without stuttering.

This was a old school presentation. Kind of reminds me of my lectures from law school. I must say, I do like, and miss, this format. I hope your style catches on. I’m really tired of the oversimplified, and filled to brim with jump-cuts content that tries to calm peoples ADHD. This was refreshing! Good job man, you just earned a new subscriber.

@threethrushes

3 жыл бұрын

Let me deduce that you were born before 2000. Let me also deduce that your IQ is above 100.

@wisnia2737

3 жыл бұрын

@@threethrushes you don't have to be a millennial to like this video, so spare us the idolising of older generations

@threethrushes

3 жыл бұрын

@@wisnia2737 Dumb by Gerhard Symons Somewhere in your comment, Was the seed of a concept, I tried, I tried, I tried, To understand your formless words. It must be hard being an idea in your head, Trapped inside a flesh and blood form, Unable to convey the simplest thought.

@wisnia2737

3 жыл бұрын

@@threethrushes which part you did not understand?

@sayo2409

3 жыл бұрын

@@threethrushes Comment like a normal person. why the poem?

Also remember there isn’t even a series or ps5 version of the game currently. They are playing the game made for current gen it just runs it better.

Well, in the end, they did "fix scope"... badly. They bascially reduced the game to all the marketable material, and dropped everything else.

@SanchezS1998

3 жыл бұрын

Even the 2018 demo was drastically cut down from some of their previous concepts. There was a point where the developers were repurposing Witcher 3’s weather system to handle the in-game reconstruction of buildings and structures destroyed during gameplay in real-time. My guess is that it was too demanding on the CPU. I forget where I found the article covering the slides, but the slides covered many things they had already cut from the game before the “year of Gwent” as the slides detailed.

@warbaby32

3 жыл бұрын

@@SanchezS1998 I believe it. I mean, sure, there are things cut during development, that's not the issue... but when you quietly cut features, you did show and describe in your marketing as close to release as 2-3 months, then it becomes questionable.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Kind of, but they also traded-off on quality - a classic failure when under pressure. The engineering failing is to not begin by organising your work so that the software is ALWAYS RELEASABLE, from the beginning. In the begining there won't be a playable, sale-able, game, but the work will have been completed to production standard. Later in the life of the project, the biz an now choose when it makes sense to release, based on what they have, in the confidence that it will be release-able. This is a HUGE change in how you undertake complex projects, but it works and is the approach behind the most successful software companies in the world.

@warbaby32

3 жыл бұрын

@@ContinuousDelivery Yea, well, they got Keanu Reeves instead...

@jasonhenson7946

3 жыл бұрын

But, they didn't strip out all of the half-baked stuff like the police system.

Seems to me once they brought on Keanu, an actor I truly enjoy watching, the plan was thrown out the window and the dev team had to try and rework the entire game around the star power. It seems marketing was more of a priority than a quality product.

@Metalord874

3 жыл бұрын

If you check the 2018 48 min demo keanus character didn't have such a big part. In the demo they said he was killed a year ago. Which means that they rewrote the entire story bc they wantes keanu/silverhand to have a bigger roll. How much he was paid doesn't matter. He has been in low budget movies (6m dollar the bad batch). Cp2077 budget is over 300m so it's not like he charged so much the quality suffered bc of it.

@sablemae8853

3 жыл бұрын

@@Metalord874 and they doubled his time at his request.

@xxxmrhankixxx

3 жыл бұрын

this.

@backwaterskinny

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. Scope changed when Keanu entered the formula. The reaction at the expo made CDPR see dollar signs, so they went all in with Keanu and changed the scope of the game. Watching past Cyberpunk media validates this theory.

@ghoulofthebeat4946

3 жыл бұрын

@@Metalord874 The story and lore for this game was setup in cyberpunk 2013 source book which came out long before CDPR even existed. Johnny silver hand was always going to play a major role, the only thing that changed anything was they got a big actor in to fill the role.

Congratulations on being featured in Crowbcat’s recent video.

I don't understand why so many dislikes. It just makes sense from a business and developer's perspective.

@brenlouissurio2404

3 жыл бұрын

CDPR shill who think the game is good because of ray tracing.

@rakaharits

3 жыл бұрын

@@hollyc5417 you're the uninformed one tho?

@stephanklein257

3 жыл бұрын

Bcs. by picking a popular gaming title as click-bait, Dave drew in the gamer crowd, who while riding their multiple high horses, have zero expertise or interest in SW development methodology.

@TheMrfoxguy

2 жыл бұрын

@@hollyc5417 who crapped in your cornflakes

@provocateach

2 жыл бұрын

@Zero Even better: the guy in the video is Dave Farley; he *coined* the term “continuous delivery”! 🤣

CD Projekt Red made a short-sighted move. The financial and reputation hit they took from what they did is way way more than if they had just delayed the release for another year.

@mac1991seth

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, no. You delay the game for another year and how do you pay the salary to the 1000 people involved in the project? Product has to sell and the development process is an investment that needs to be paid back. Especially after solid 12 months of Covid (with no end in sight, mind you) when the economies around the globe go under.

@djsteves554

3 жыл бұрын

@@mac1991seth the half a billion dollars worth of pre orders for this game might have helped with that lol

@PCGamingGoodies

3 жыл бұрын

@@djsteves554 They can only take preorders when a game is close to release. So the original point stands: delay = no pre-orders = no money to pay salaries = game's budget increases.

@Shawnvont

3 жыл бұрын

@@PCGamingGoodies they make a lot of money from thier storefront GOG. Last I checked they are financially larger than ubisoft so I think they could have waited a year or at least till February without much of a loss. The planned on supporting this game for a few years post launch anyway in hope's of it being a gta5 situation.

@rodneyh1947

3 жыл бұрын

"You delay the game for another year and how do you pay the salary to the 1000 people involved in the project?" LMAO! They delayed for more than 5 years already, they should have went bankrupt then according to your logic lol. They have GOG which is similar to steam. They aren't going to go under because they cant release cyberpunk LMAO!! They didn't force the release because they were going to fire 1000 people if they didn't release it lol!.

"... that's magical thinking." ie, "Bioware Magic"

@anon9060

3 жыл бұрын

Sad what Biowares turned into though. I mean it's not even the same company as it was before.

@frealms

3 жыл бұрын

Not only theirs. Someone else "just works"

@yumri4

3 жыл бұрын

Really i think that is part of why EA has a 1 yr turn around for games. IF the other studios make the majority of it in 1 year even if it takes 3 to 8 years to make then why not do it in 1 year to begin with. You see about as many bugs in EA games as you do in other games made with Unreal Engine 3 and 4. Unreal engine 2 was super buggy as was unreal engine 1. unreal engine 5 is eh it takes time to make a game that all GPUs can run without slow downs to the extreme when you hit certain parts due to what you can do with unreal engine 5 and game devs just not used to it yet.

@Sean_Connery

3 жыл бұрын

@@anon9060 that’s what happens when all the founders leave and a shit publisher like ea is in charge.

@yumri4

3 жыл бұрын

@Arrogant Australian Socialist of Victoria They have have. Slowly as governments of major markets have made laws about game mechanics. The main one EA is known for is mircotransactions. I hate microtransactions and thus i don't buy EA games.

Everything you said is absolutely right. What I found over and over again is, it's nearly impossible to change the company culture or fight against the decision makers, the marketing, the finance or the HR. Everyone in the trench knows what's the "right" thing to do, but those who know the LEAST get to call the MOST IMPORTANT shots every single time! That's always a guarantied failure!

I worked as a game developer for many years... this industry is sick - nobody knows about tests or other good practices things. The main reason here is per-project nature, you finished the project and started next from the blank, nobody spent time to improve code because nobody will use it anymore. Also, if we talking about the graphics pipeline it's very difficult to make tests. All common instruments like Unity, UE4 engines not supporting tests. CI/DI it's a different world.

*Cyberpunk 2077 released as a unplayable mess KZread recommendations: “I’m about to start this man’s whole career”

@MrAhor18

3 жыл бұрын

Beep boop bop

@jarrodbright5231

3 жыл бұрын

Remember though that it wasn't an unplayable mess... on certain systems. It ran fine on PC and next-gen consoles. It just failed to meet the main market's expectations of being playable on last-gen consoles.

@ShinRai1090

3 жыл бұрын

@@jarrodbright5231 part of the market... After the latest patches it was decent on ps4 / xbox... But ppl still cribbed. Cdpr fkd up but the gaming community has become toxic.

@theshephard-commander7658

3 жыл бұрын

@@ShinRai1090 so, so true. I’m not trying to stick up for CDPR- I’m one of the peeps who bought the game on (xb1x) HOPING it ran decent. I wasn’t disappointed, it actually runs pretty well. It has bugs & glitches, but it’s far from ‘unplayable.’ People are sooooo negative nowadays (can’t really blame em) they’d rather complain than laud q product. Doesn’t excuse CDPR dropping the ball here- but people are forgetting this game (despite the dropped gameplay features) is actually pretty decent on PC & NG hardware (xb1x/ps4 pro included).

@jarrodbright5231

3 жыл бұрын

@@ShinRai1090 You're suggesting the gaming community (and online communities in general) was ever not toxic?

"Perfect plan is perfectly stupid idea" TRUE

@Windcolors

3 жыл бұрын

Because Perfaction are nothing existent. Any can't be perfect!

@andrewherrera7735

3 жыл бұрын

You can tell by their description of what they want in their employees that they think like that. When someone smears around the word passion and enjoyment, you know that they are not rational about what they are doing.

@Windcolors

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewherrera7735 Passion is an ability and Enjoyment can be having but this to are existent, Perfection CAN'T be exsisting because Perfection is the non exist would be Space by incurrence are perfectly so the Space are not exist, thats meta philosophy

This game is the glitchiest mess I've ever played and I love it.

“Apple never pre-announce their products...” well they do except for two: first iPhone (but successfully) and AirPower but the latter failed hence they learned a lesson the hard way that they don’t even announce recent products such as iPhone SE 2, MBP 16, etc... This is why folks keep your ego and don’t announce products 8 years before launching. Only announce as if that thing is ready to launch tomorrow.

@leobustos740

3 жыл бұрын

If cyberpunk had all the polish necessary (pun intended) and it was announced Fallout 4 style the gaming community would be absolutely in love with the game.

I would love to hear your insights on development of the game "Star Citizen".

@olivierrodriguesneto5995

3 жыл бұрын

I would love to see it too, that game seems to be an management hell, by the time and money invested we should already have an product in an way better shape than that thing

@cSTEPHEN855

3 жыл бұрын

Highway robbery lol

@gstreetgames2530

3 жыл бұрын

Star Citizen = Continuous Duplicity

@Akuretarie

3 жыл бұрын

@@cSTEPHEN855 kek

@truecaliber1995

3 жыл бұрын

@@olivierrodriguesneto5995 Feature-creep will keep SC in development hell until most backers withdraw their support. Something'll give, eventually.

CD Projekt Red are Infamous for their bad management decisions. All of their big releases were plagued by this problem and people somehow seem to forget this. In the case of Cyberpunk they made a HUGE case of how this game is going to blow the gamers minds, how decision making will influence the game world, they hyped it into oblivion. The scope they had for this game was massive and they totally disregarded the time factor. Also, there are sources from inside the studio that said, and this is information from at least 3 years ago, that at the beginning of 2017 they barely had a graphics engine for the game, even though the game was announced back in 2013. Fast forward to 2019, Keanu Reeves is revealed to be part of the game as a main protagonist. He said in an interview he was contacted by CDPR in 2018, that's only 2 years ago. This tells me that 2 years ago they still didn't have the full story and scope of the game and for a project this size is simply not enough time. In 2019 they announced their first release date as April 2020 and well the rest is history. I honestly like Rockstar Studios approach to their launches. Stay absolutely silent about anything related to the project and announce it when it's absolutely ready. That's why they always had successful releases and their games are not small projects in any way. Rockstar always get their scope down to the last detail so they can worry about time only when the project is ready.

@rvictor906

3 жыл бұрын

I suspected this iteration of the game was put together in 2 years and not the 8 years everyone is echoing. In my opinion, they should have not released that tech demo to the public, especially if development was still in flux. That was a big gamble that probably bit in the ass in the end. Had all we saw was the 2019 stuff it would have been a completely different reception. In the end CDPR was stuck between a rock and a hard place.

@nassimkezoui6072

3 жыл бұрын

This game simply never felt like it was finished; I don’t understand why people were getting hyped when footage showing how rough the « game » looked was available online. The developers were talking about fixing systems after the first delay, but at that point I definitely knew it would be a disaster.

@mahjoubadam1742

3 жыл бұрын

@@rvictor906 you guys talk abt this game like it's Anthem level crap it's not it's atleast 8.5-9/10 the metacritic score is 87 and on steam it's 79% positive reviews clearly the majority thinks the game is a daimond sadly covered in dirt

@sthamansinha243

3 жыл бұрын

@Hermes Pymander R* don't give two shits about PC kid

@mahjoubadam1742

3 жыл бұрын

@Hermes Pymander cuz they game is good and fun to play

"They expect to just works" Todd smiles

@cahsahhhhhhhn

3 жыл бұрын

“It just works” intensifies

The difference in approach to game development is well shown when we compare how CD Projekt released Cyber Punk 2077 and what Mojang did when they realized that it was impossible to release a new version of Minecraft on time without making crunches. Mojang reduced the release scope, informed players that they didn't want to do crunches because they cared about the well-being of the development team. The gaming community has received this news very positively

You, my man, won the recommendation lottery. :)

Agree , and it's a far too common issue, high management taking decisions on scope and time without any understanding of the engineering complexity of the development process for what they asked, considering increase in manpower alone can magicaly solve the issue.

@CasuallySurfing

3 жыл бұрын

This sound eerily similar to the banking industry practices that I am working in. Expect adding more personnel to relieve the limitation 20++ year old banking software is like asking 20 more people to paddle a small leaky boat and expecting a speed akin of a motorboat XD

@wumi2419

3 жыл бұрын

@@CasuallySurfing from what I heard, possible reason for big companies using software that is as old as the company itself is that any change is a gamble. And changing banking software that is the core of whole business is a business sized gamble. There are ways to test things, but it will still cost a lot, and if everything R&D does is maintaining old software, I would not expect existing R&D to write something really new, and hiring fresh R&D is a gamble once again. Also even good new software might be dragged down by backwards compatibility.

@rahulsar2030

3 жыл бұрын

Well there is also the issue of development framework they are using. Why use traditional waterfall model while there is agile model in the market. Also if the management are not aware in which Sprint or phase the project is failing and what is the result of testing and which bugs have been debug, then there is a huge miscommunication going on with dev and management. If a project is going on for 9 years then why devs are forced to overwork 6 days/week.

@BeerAndFries

3 жыл бұрын

@@rahulsar2030 I don't mean to argue, but agile model is also not a magical tool to fix company's problems. Badly implemented agile is just as bad as any framework, what a company needs is to work out how to work efficiently based on the nature of the company itself. If it turns out that agile/scrum/whatever ready model is good enough, then it is good enough, but it won't fix a company with, for example, higher ups who refuse to listen to the engineers.

They have also show more proof of this by promising BIG patches to fix everything and keeping developers on DLC development instead of bug fixes.

This video is great. I'd be interested to hear your analysis on other game development projects as well.

They also probably had an emplyment issue. New workers taking over former employees tasks constantly. Apparently the terrible workplace culture leads to massive employee turn over in CDPR. Most of the witcher 3 devs left after blood and wine.

@sumobo7108

3 жыл бұрын

So far I don't hear no read former cdpr employee spill the beans

@LiveType

3 жыл бұрын

With how most of these games work, companies hire basically contract workers who have no idea how to work on the game and expect them to immediately crunch hard to fix everything despite lacking experience working with the game. These "employees" then get immediately layed off once the publisher decides the game is "finished" usually in less than a year after being hired. Do you see a problem with this? This is what I feel the core issue was at bioware. The experienced devs all left basically midway through the development of dragon age: inquisition in 2012-2013. It's a miracle that game turned out as well as it did and Bioware's future games all suffered because of it. CDPR has a motivated dev team so I think they'll support this game for a while fixing all of the bugs, but a lot of the half-baked gameplay mechanics will unfortunately stick around. This was 100% a management issue as there don't seem to be a lot of core technical problems with the game.

@displacedcosmonaught8992

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah they had 6day work weeks at 10+hour shifts on W3 as well. When you develop ulcers, high blood pressure, and age at triple the normal rate due to stress and no sleep, you just can’t get paid well enough by a company that will drop you for calling in sick

@mahjoubadam1742

3 жыл бұрын

@@displacedcosmonaught8992 that's why I only consider indie games to be art not a TRIPLE A game that was crunched from some people creative people

@abeplus7352

3 жыл бұрын

@@Josh_728 that's not how it works , you're just pushing your agenda now . Software jobs are hard to get . You're making it sound like anyone is getting hired ... Reality of the situation is when you have to take over someone else's code it's not going to be easy not matter how well written it is . Unless there's a good amount of documentation ( guess what devs are lazy ) then it's not going to be smooth sailing . I see alot of people saying this same stuff FoRcEd DiVerSity .

Can you really call CDPR an "independent" games company anymore? They're a publicly traded company, as of 2018, and they have over 1000 employees. Both of which are probably part of the problem.

@jarrodbright5231

3 жыл бұрын

The other part of the problem is that the directors are still the same directors from before they went public. Leadership of a private company is a completely different kettle of fish to leadership in a listed company.

@bigchungus7050

3 жыл бұрын

If they publish their own games then yeah they are independent.

@ConnorLonergan

3 жыл бұрын

If we went by the logic of “they publish there own games.” Then Ubisoft, EA, and Rockstar are Independent game companies as the publisher and developers are all under the same company

@AwesomeNuke

3 жыл бұрын

@@ConnorLonergan Not really. All these devs have different companies / studios doing the marketing / publishing. CDPR is a single studio doing everything, so yes CDPR is an indie studio

@Trisador9

3 жыл бұрын

CD Projekt is public, CDPR isn't

Really great video - subscribed. I look forward to watching more of your videos.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for subbing

awesome video, best of luck with your future uploads.

Their attempt at fixing scope was removing features from the game that could have changed how it plays significantly.

@VoidStar.

3 жыл бұрын

RIP wall running. 😢

@dankenstin8803

3 жыл бұрын

@@VoidStar. RIP fashion & style features, RIP subway, RIP backstories, RIP acid rain, RIP immersive police & corruption, RIP vehicle customization, RIP advertisements pointing you to vending machines, RIP many hacking features, RIP 3rd-person stuff, RIP wall running (never really cared for that, but I think it should be mentioned,) RIP smart & immersive AI, RIP big RPG elements, RIP purchasable properties, RIP good character customization (yes, it’s still a feature that exists in the game, which I always get excited about in any game ever, but, as a character creation fan, this feature is worse than I expected it to be. Oh, btw, YOUR VOICE CHOICE DETERMINES V’s GENDER. HOW??)

@giofunny6391

3 жыл бұрын

@@dankenstin8803 They NEED to add all that back in a DLC if they want the game to be played for years on end.

@chrisdonald14

3 жыл бұрын

@@giofunny6391 then release story dlc for all of the Life paths

You hit the nail on the head. Its hard to imagine they didnt build viable systems (NPC AI, realistic world, physics, cars etc) early and have the core engine working and well defined before getting too far in the dev cycle.

@jasonhenson7946

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and their core event system seems very buggy too with audio overlapping, dialog choices not working, triggers not functioning, etc. So, in order to fix these issues they will have to tinker with the foundation of their product, which will have cascading affect with new bugs. Had they thoroughly tested this system to production quality before proceeding they wouldn't be in this situation.

@Demokaze

3 жыл бұрын

Seems like a case of "too many cooks spoil the broth" type of thing. When the director doesn't have a clear plan the tasks go through many hands and cycles.

@cyberpunkdarren

3 жыл бұрын

@@Demokaze Yes and no. It should be pretty clear from the outset that the game was based in a city with cars and police that need adequate and believable AI. That could easily be done separately as they are simple algorithms.

@Neatram1

3 жыл бұрын

.

@Neatram1

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah

I’m a software engineer and I can tell you what probably happened here. 1st Project manager says “yes Business leadership we can have this game finished for all platforms in 1 year”. 1st Project Manager leads team which misses all dates and is in the red (Agile Term) but lies to leadership and says “we are on track!” Leadership finds out and fires 1st Project Manager, hires 2nd Project Manager. Same thing happens. Meanwhile the Agile Teams are too small and are probably located all over the world making it nearly impossible to communicate and coordinate effectively(due to time zone differences) but the business refuses to hire more people bc of cost (aka expense). The best engineers get burnt out and quit or are forced to quit leaving yes man engineers who can’t code or test to save their lives. Lastly since the Project Managers are lying about being on time the marketing team is starting to push their rollout plan and with that expense being so great there is no stopping the release. Realizing the game is not complete they spend the last few months trying to release MVP(minimum viable product) just to fix and test it in production. This is the world of AGILE and the word of current software development. Gamers have allowed this behavior to become standard over the past decade

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, not really the world of true agile, but all too common in the faux-agile that most of the industry operates. True agile maintains the software in a releasable state through out its development. Not too many orgs do that.

Bloody brilliant mate. CD is so important. Love the piece on Time and Scope. So many times I have discussed this with my customers when they don’t really have a plan and expect things to just magically happen with limited resources.

Another smaller studio made Kingdom Come: Deliverance with NPC lifecycle, like a farmer getting up, working, eating, going to the village pub at night, yet after seven years Cyberpunk has NPCs walking back and forth on a small section of street. In an interview the head of the studio talked about the slowdown of progress in asking for new things during lockdown since devs weren't side by side, made me wonder why they kept changing the scope so late in production.

@TheCivildecay

3 жыл бұрын

Fun fact: the witcher 1 had npc's that reacted to weather (they went indoor or sought shelter from rain) and went to different locations during the day

@renmorpheus

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheCivildecay And it was their best game, imo. Apart from the narrative, they focused more and more on how pretty their games are, and less and less how well they played or felt (Again, imo ^^)

@Rasenmaehermann89

3 жыл бұрын

I aggree that KCD`s AI is better ( for example people dont just magically disappear :D ) but following scripted paths or doing a job is not what AI is. going to bed, eating, talking... its all scripts. An example of a good AI is the one in FEAR. enemy AI observes your behaviour and reacts with a suitable strategy. flanking, getting into cover, throwing grenades into an area that will affect you.

@ZalvaTionZ

3 жыл бұрын

@@Rasenmaehermann89 The issue is they literally promised thousand handcrafted AI schedules.

@pajeetsingh

3 жыл бұрын

California

the biggest problem is the business people, in the beginning they say you have all time you need then everything change and they want the product ready to deploy even if it's not

@1738Creations

3 жыл бұрын

8 years in development...

@jannclaudebinoya

3 жыл бұрын

@Nobody yet they started the marketing at 2012

@TwistedMdk

3 жыл бұрын

@@jannclaudebinoya marketing =/= development

@jannclaudebinoya

3 жыл бұрын

@@TwistedMdk doesn't change the fact that they hyped the game for 8 years just for it to turn out like some kind of draft project

@heywatchme101

3 жыл бұрын

@@TwistedMdk yeah they should not have marketed it back in 2012. Apple does not market their iphone 12 10 years before it is launched

I find this much interesting than the countless bugs-on-display videos out there. Finally some insight into WHY things turn out the way they do. Love this type of content, subscribed.

Imagine if this guy found that Bethesda exist 😁😁

@cahsahhhhhhhn

3 жыл бұрын

He’d have content for years

@leobustos740

3 жыл бұрын

"What went wrong with Fallout 76" 4 hour long video.

@goodypundit5666

3 жыл бұрын

@@leobustos740 whattt, he made one already?? Gonna check it out!

@FraserSouris

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair, At least Bethesda fixed the time issue.

I can’t believe they announced they gone gold when in reality it really wasn’t.

@Lil.Lon3Ly

3 жыл бұрын

They lied 100%, its so they can release the game on Christmas and get the $$$.

@necrago

3 жыл бұрын

Stop complaining. You don't even know what going gold means.

@Jamgcy

3 жыл бұрын

I laughed when they said that, you didn't actually believe it do you? remember when NMS said they gone gold on twitter rofl, it was worse than cyberpunk. An advice, follow the hype but doubt everything. Same to all the trailer released during this pandemic, probably trying to make some money grab. Not gonna lie, I had fun playing cyberpunk. Overall a decent game.

@Lil.Lon3Ly

3 жыл бұрын

@@necrago Gone gold means the game is complete and ready to ship, so what’s your excuse for tolerating unfinished game?

@1vaultdweller

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lil.Lon3Ly Which doesnt make sense. People already had paid millions of pre-orders. They were good financially

it's great to have an actual software engineers perspective on game development.

Looking at the final game compared to the trailers, they did cut back on scope drastically but didn't bother informing those that pre-ordered or bought it on launch day. It is a pretty game with little substance and lots of corners cut.

This is a truly excellent channel, thanks so much for sharing

The game is far from perfect on PC but after 80 hours I love it. Great world, characters, graphics, quests. That being said, the AI is awful and some of the RPG aspects are underwhelming. Also, for a game that touts itself as being all about your look it has me confused why they would require you to wear ugly clothes just because it has higher armor. I spent 70 of those 80 hours looking like absolute crap.

@OsmosisHD

3 жыл бұрын

I look like some homeless hipster fashionista with a multitude of mental illnesses and meth addiction. But with nearly 900 armor... So there's that.

@armstrongcanon7833

3 жыл бұрын

They would add an transmog system in future updates. the large part of the community has been asking that to them after release.

@LazyKingAus

3 жыл бұрын

@@OsmosisHD im at 2000 with some legendary pieces

@maelstrom2313

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not that far into the game but I figured out that crafting helps me pick and keep the look I want. I just choose the items I prefer to wear and upgrade the heck out of them. Of course this works best if you're focusing on the Tech skill tree as I am.

@LazyKingAus

3 жыл бұрын

@@maelstrom2313 it starts to cost hellas to upgrade after the 10th time its like 300 components each to upgrade my shirt past 144.3

Pre-activision Blizzard was great at holding things back until its ready. Their launch version of games were very playable and optimized right from the get go.

@cahsahhhhhhhn

3 жыл бұрын

Too bad that Blizzard has long been killed and buried

@sopota6469

3 жыл бұрын

For some reason this has become a Blizzard myth. The core mechanics of their games was done, but I recall horrible network problems that made WoW, D2 and D3 unplayable for weeks and even months. No problems with single player, ofc.

@nemeziskill

3 жыл бұрын

Yep ant thats why they die. You need money and selling when ready means you dont have steady flow of cash

@plutoburn

3 жыл бұрын

@@nemeziskill Blizzard may have a bunch of problems but cashflow isn't one of them. WoW was huge, the monthly subscription money was more than enough to keep them going.

I think the issue here is that people make promises and paint themselves into a reputational corner, requiring a degree of humility to get out of. It's extremely hard in some cultures to say, "I fucked up again with my estimate". I also hate the way the media will jump on anyone showing this behaviour and portray it as a kind of weakness in leadership, for instance. One of the best skills you can learn as a developer is to be able to tell the truth when someone senior puts you on the spot about a time commitment. I lost count at how many times in the past I've said "yes" or "it's fine" when in reality I've got concerns.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, it is often a difficult conversation to have, but sometimes we need to have it.

Great video! Continuous Delivery rules :) To add on top, Cyberpunk is using CD Projekt RED's own proprietary engine, which of course adds on top when talking about the risks in software development. I work as a Product Manager in software development and for me, the prevalent crunch phenomenon in gaming industry is worrying. The companies (and their managers) are exploiting the strong passion of the employees for the content of their work. Based on the fact that the situation is not changing for decades, I assume the employees are somehow content with that, presumably due to high competitiveness and overall instability in the industry. Yet I keep wondering if something can be done about this.

"You can't have it all" EA games - Challenge everything

@Archonsx

3 жыл бұрын

dude stop bringing up that failed gaming company, can't remember the last time they were relevant.

@qwerty6789x

3 жыл бұрын

@@Archonsx EA still makes Billions on their garbage games.

@MrCHAMMOND

3 жыл бұрын

@@Archonsx If you can't remember when one of the biggest game publishers in the videogame industry was relevant then you might be a goldfish.

@goranmijatovic6786

3 жыл бұрын

Last Star wars game was pritty good 🙂

@jamesesparza6893

3 жыл бұрын

ah EA the laughing stock of the video game industry, the only thing they challenge is the terrible quality of their triple A releases.

The scope of their game clearly kept changing based on the fact that almost every element of the game feels half-baked; the looting, the leveling, player choice, stealth, openworld. There were some new, interesting ideas but over all a mess.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

This is one of the important engineering themes. Change is fine, in fact important if you want to navigate towards something good, but it needs to be controlled and you do that by working to "production ready all the time". You don't do it by hoping that you can "add quality at the end".

@andreiga76

3 жыл бұрын

They wanted to do a next gen GTA with big RPG elements without knowing how to do an old gen GTA, technically and management wise. Witcher 3 didn’t have that scope, why they thought they could do it especially when all their eggs where on one basket? Also they changed their focus in the meantime when they got the ok from Keanu Reeves, they did that two years ago because story is focused on him and he said he was approached by CDPR in mid 2018.

@nathandanner4030

3 жыл бұрын

@@andreiga76 I'm not sure that hiring Keanu changed thier focus. I think that including some of the main characters from the PNP Cyberpunk was probably planned pretty early. Otherwise they wouldn't have highered Mike Pondsmith and made a generic Cyberpunk game instead. Keanu himself might not be everyones cup of tea but, he's been a player in the Cyberpunk movie genre for over 2 decades. So I think that it was a natural conclusion and a coup to cast him as Johny Silverhand.

@unlimited971

3 жыл бұрын

@@andreiga76 no. they wanted to do a next gen deus ex. STOP COMPARING IT WITH GTA. that's stupid

@BigHenFor

3 жыл бұрын

@@unlimited971 No, it's not. It's hardly an RPG because hardly any of your decisions really matter, except for one near the final third of the game, and that final third is full of filler. Levelling up and the skill tree are meh, and Night City is the trope of a Cyberpunk urban environment, rather than a exploration of our reality. You've got a lot of action, but if you screw up there's not a lot of consequences to worry about. It's more GTA than RPG by a long chalk.

Hi, I love the video and the delivery of the message.. might be better impact if Audio is better

Most of the crashes and bugs seem related to poor memory management such as memory leaks, dead pointers, memory overflows and out-of-memoy errors. When I checked their job offerings, I didn't see "memory management and architecture" mentioned either. This seems to be another big problem, they are treating game development like movie studios where all they need is to create shiny graphics and cool stuff for the consumer and not technical quality.

I have always worked on projects by adding one feature at a time. We bug test the hell out of the feature before we move on to the next idea. My products are always ready to release at any moment in time. Only when having the finished product in our hands, we then announce that it is coming out. This is really important for mobile apps that run on multiple devices. We always tests on the oldest devices first.

@Kaiju3301

3 жыл бұрын

Dealing with backwards compatibility issues is the bane of many people out there. It sounds like you guys go about it the right way but a lot don’t and it’s such a disaster to work on those projects.

@oliver_twistor

3 жыл бұрын

That is how it should be done. Sadly, too many teams develop 100 features, plan to ship in a week and starts testing in a couple of days. Not only will you uncover flaws that you should have uncovered in the first feature, the testing itself will be so much harder when there are 100 features that can break independently or together in nearly endless combinations.

@reinforcedpenisstem

3 жыл бұрын

Giving away your secrets!

Well, I’ll be honest, the visual presentation made me doubt the video when starting, but that’s some quality content you make! And all you said makes perfect sense. They tried fixing time and scope, but nearing the release they were forced to drop scope, resulting in a lot of unfinished content in the game.

@andersonfelippe9016

3 жыл бұрын

What just make things even worse as they had the heck of a long time.

@jarrodbright5231

3 жыл бұрын

The thing is they dropped the wrong part, which is sacrificing quality not sacrificing scope. Adjusting scope would have been, say, releasing the game for PC on the releast date while continuing to work on having the game ready for X-Box and PS4 at a later date. Dropping game features is referred to as adjusting quality of the delivered product, not the scope.

They lacked the talent and manpower to make the expected AAAA Sandbox. It's a game that was 25% done and stuck together with bubble gum and the wrappers.

I appreciate you linking the facts behind your assertions - - subbed!

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks and welcome

This is the best video on the subject. Even the guy at the gas station just now at 6am my time and I talked about how disappointed we were in the game after years of being excited and preordering the first day they were available because we foolishly trusted CDP & CDPR top to bottom. Oh well. Life goes on. Excellent video. Calm & rational.

@REDACT3D

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@jenszier

3 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, some things aren't really addressed in the video. For example the time scope. Sure, you could always say "it would have needed more time", but after this has been in development for nearly eight years, time itself clearly wasn't the issue here. Also they didn't target development at "the new platforms". They targeted development exclusivly at the PC. They got lucky that the game runs "so well" on new generation consoles... Many people are very unhappy about the results, but if they had taken any other approach we never would have gotten a game that can be visually this stunning. Then there is the argument with "just release the PS4 version later" - We are talking about a highly story driven game here, not about some piece of CRM software. Also the current generation of consoles is dying fast - sure, you can still make some sales in about half a year, but clearly not the amount you can make today... The right decision would have been not to release a current gen version at all and put the ressources into KI/gameplay fixes. Unfortunately that doesn't make shareholders happy...

@thedungeoneer33

3 жыл бұрын

@@jenszier why does everybody keep saying its been in development for 8 years? Just cuz the game was announced in 2012 doesnt mean thats when development began. The actual development stage didnt start until 2016

@X6Thunder

3 жыл бұрын

@@jenszierCan we please stop with the "this game has been in development for nearly 8 years" because it hasnt been. While witcher was still being worked on with dlc and such cyberpunk would have not had a full dev team working on it. Cyberpunk would of been in pre-production with very few people working on it. So the actual dev time would most likely be about half of the 8 years everyone is talking about so 4-3.5 years. Still a long time more than enough to make a game.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, let's hope that they can salvage something from it for you and the guy in the gas station.

Minor point of order: There is no Next Gen version. Only the Current Gen version running "fine" on Next Gen hardware, but like a dumpster fire on their intended devices. In your diagram, the primary version they were iterating down from should have been the PC version. That said, the "Point" of that segment came across fine.

@rurunosep

3 жыл бұрын

Haven't watched the video yet, so I might not have the context right, but there will be a next gen version later. They said before release that the game will be patched in early 2021 for further support for next gen consoles, but at the moment it's the same version.

@Starcat5

3 жыл бұрын

@@rurunosep That was the point I was making. The video seemed to imply that the version currently being played on the next-gen consoles *WAS* the next-gen version.

@chocho6766

3 жыл бұрын

@@Starcat5 just let's hope that the next gen version is truly what they're focused

Great video! Thank you for the precise explaination.

Wonderful video. I am now a happy subscriber.

Nothing worse than your client saying “well...can’t you just make it work?” “Yea sure sweetheart let me just press enter on the keyboard to fix it”

@AOIU982

3 жыл бұрын

In Cyberpunks case it does not work and is not what was promised so it basically better work or they are in big trouble.

@leobustos740

3 жыл бұрын

I don't understand these people's line of thought, if you could "just fix it", wouldn't your job itself not exist ?

I can imagine that testing the interconnected story paths would've sucked up a lot of time. Also, if you compare the finished product to what was seen in the gameplay demo from e3 2018, they fully redesigned night city. In addition, trying to launch the game on 9 different platforms was a mistake, they should've relegated some to post-launch

@adamhsr

3 жыл бұрын

What interconnected story paths lol??? There's zero rpg elements or story pathing. Games horrible. Linear as it gets.

@sanjay_swain

3 жыл бұрын

@@adamhsr the story is great. Linear story doesn't automatically make it a bad game. I am not a person who joined with the hype train so I don't have that high expectations of cyberpunk and actually got to enjoy the story. I have learnt never to go for hype (or pre-order a game) after no man's sky.

@adamhsr

3 жыл бұрын

@@sanjay_swain bro no one hyped it up except themselves. You commented that as if people made up all of these things about cyberpunk. Go re watch all their trailers and game play videos. They rant on and on obsessively about how rpg it is and how ur choice matters and how interactive and alive the world is. They hyped it up and basically lied. Not basically. They did straight up lie about half the game.

@KiingCam96

3 жыл бұрын

@@adamhsr you’re overly emotional about this whole situation.

@adamhsr

3 жыл бұрын

@@KiingCam96 nah im just over retards still sucking off a company that blatantly lied and act like its fine. Company should shut down and get sued

Great video, well explained. Subscribed.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks

Brooks also said there is no such thing like a silver bullet. Continuous delivery, "best pratices", "small teams", none of this is not it.

Well you missed third scope that CDPR seem to have taken in this scenario: "let's create as much hype so we can sell 8 million pre-orders and we'll deal with the fallout later" :P

@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, they got away with it precisely because of the hype.

@leobustos740

3 жыл бұрын

Ah yes, the "No Man's Sky" approach of launching a game...

I really dislike the continued myth that every software project that fails is due to "waterfall". No one uses waterfall. No one has ever used waterfall (by design). The first NATO software engineering conference back in the 60s was the first to talk about a waterfall-like process, and it specifically said it was something to be AVOIDED. AVOIDED because traditional engineering practice also avoided any single-direction process. The issue is that the process is often ad-hoc, poorly defined, with ad-hoc testing. That happens even when you're claiming to be Agile or using SCRUM or CD/CI or any other buzzword. The key is always about some sort of iterative process that improves itself, not just the software. More prototyping. Smaller prototypes. Test, but don't automate tests on initial prototypes, unless you're willing to throw them away, otherwise it's not agile/flexible, it's just locking in bad design.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

You are right in that there are lots of ways to fail at software. That is why I think that taking an engineering approach, as in applying the principles of science, to development is so important. In this case though, it was 'waterfall' thinking that caused these problems. Most large organisations operate a non-iterative, planned, informal process that attempts to fix time & scope, wether we call it waterfall or not is probably less interesting. I agree with you that the problem is fundamentally one of "inspect & adapt" vs "attempt to fix a plan & fail". It is possible to iterate to success, and to create tests from the beginning. That takes a certain level of experience with automated testing, but I, and many others, have succeeded at that.

@elderroll4017

3 жыл бұрын

yeah, because in reality, there are lots of scope creeping which ruins the waterfall method.

@kwanarchive

3 жыл бұрын

@uxel duxel Sounds more like the customer's demands rather than waterfall. If a customer demanded all those documents from an agile shop, they'd have to do the same thing because whatever the customer wants, they get. ie, nothing stopped your company from doing iterative development internally so you could iron out the design issues. It's not like the customer has to know how everything was run. The fact that you had the button implemented and sitting there for 7 months tells me that's what happened.

Cool take Dave. I was at one of your workshops a few years ago in Aarhus Denmark. Its nice to hear you talk about CD in relation to something so relatable.

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks

Very good take, much appreciated to hear some great some rational analysis. So far all I've heard is "management has to go", and while I feel for the poor Devs busting their guts to make imposed deadlines I do question the practices used to get to a point where scope was prioritised and executed Game programming is way more cowboy culture than business, plus they have a lot more detail to manage. Though even in business environments agile never gets the proper treatment it can provide. There's always a bit of waterfall madness involved.

I saw the thumbnail and said to myself "This guy probably knows his shit."

@szymondalagopisz7878

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Same thought! XD

@siva6137

3 жыл бұрын

Precisely, I've ignored all the backlash till now because I genuinely enjoy playing CP2077 on my PC. However, I clicked this video to learn a thing or two about software engineering failures.

Got recommended this video randomly by KZread. Your chanel is a gem, im very glad to have discovered it.

Great video I’ve just subscribed...100 % total sense. They should have concentrated on base PS4 and Xbox versions first then waited to upscale to next gen when the user base would have been larger regarding console versions.

Great recommendations youtube 👌. Your channel is fantastic 👏. Glad I found this andim anew subscriber

@ContinuousDelivery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks and welcome to the channel