I think people need to chill. Your test is helpful. Your tests are 1 datapoint just like everyone else’s. You explained all the caveats in your test, so it wasn’t like you tried make unfair comparisons. Keep doing what you’re doing 😊

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

Thanks mate and I totally agree! I try to be as honest and helpful as always! But I am still open to improving my testing method :)

@timdex91

Ай бұрын

Great job.... Stay safe, Tim

To me, the point of a range test is to see how cars stack up against each other. After that, you can make assumptions about what range you might get based on how the car you drive did on the test. And the fact that all KZreadrs do it differently is good, because one of them is bound to be closer to a person's driving style and needs.

Once we have enough chargers there is no need for doing range test like nobody does in gas cars. That’s why I like Matt Watson running several cars at same time till they die… to see efficiency in same conditions

@iambenmitchell

Ай бұрын

We already have enough chargers. Charging isn’t a problem, but public charging is much more expensive than home charging. Which is why range is important. If you can drive somewhere and back again without needing to charge, the trip is a fraction of the cost of ICE. But here in the UK, once you run out of home range, public charging is about 2x more per mile than petrol. At least on networks that aren’t Tesla or Ionity which are about equal to diesel

@godofdun

Ай бұрын

It is interesting how until electric cars became more popular discussion of total range was essentially non existent. Now I occasionally see commercials for gas cars highlighting their range, I don't remember that being the case before.

@iambenmitchell

Ай бұрын

@@godofdun Probably because even small cars like a Mini Cooper can do 700+ miles on a tank of diesel, and since there are fuel stations everywhere and it takes 2-3 mins to fill up, no one cared about the range. But then EVs came along with initially some as low as 50 miles of real world range, most 150-200 miles, and taking an hour to 50 minutes to add 100 miles to the battery.. range was an actual concern, also chargers were few and far between. But these days there are chargers everywhere, 200kw charging is becoming the standard, with high end cars doing 300kw and the average new EV today can now do 250 miles comfortably real world or over 300 if you drive at 50-60 mph. Range is becoming less and less of an issue, but people falling for the media's lies are still being brainwashed into thinking EVs aren't sensible for more than 100 mile trips lol.. Some people even think you have to buy a new £20,000 battery after 30,000 miles haha. Just stupid.

@TassieEV

Ай бұрын

@@iambenmitchell Depends where the OP lives they may not be in Norway many places still need far far more charging infrastructure both AC & DC.

@dylconnaway9976

Ай бұрын

They’re great daily drivers if you have a home charger or convenient place to charge. There’s a charger at our office and one at our grocery store, for instance. I still take our ICE car to the mountains here and on longer trips. The time it takes to charge and the sparse stations in this part of the country are the primary reason why. 6C charging and more stations will improve this. Secondly, fast charging can be more expensive than gas per mile I’ve learned. That needs to change.

Your range tests are extremely informative no matter what. Keep doing them the way you want and don't stress too much about people's opinion in that regard. We all know someone that knows someone that drove 1000km in a Tesla Model 3 at motorway speeds at -25 degrees without charging or someone that knows someone that heard that his neighbour was charging a Nissan Leaf faster than a Taycan. 😂

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

Thanks mate! Haha, yeah there are a ton of those anecdotes 🤣🤣

Absolutely agree Kris !! Each person have its own ''range test''. I mean, geographically different places, different driving styles, different weather conditionts, etc. So I don't get why people don't understand that is really hard to everyone to have the same results... Keep testing the BEV with your metod Kris. So it's a reference in your daily trips, to know how EV behave. Greetings from Barcelona !!

RIGHT ON!! And thank you for your service.

Love your channel. I want a Zaptec Go homecharger 😊

It would be interesting to make a list with results of other KZreadrs and calculate the average. That would make the comparison between cars pretty fair.

Where is the excel file from 8:40?

Nice informative video and some good points. I think the biggest improvement of your test would be to measure actual battery capacity in stead of using nominal capacity and subtracting a fixed number for heat loss, and then calculating theoretical range. I think you should try to drive it as low as possible and either use the distance it takes, or simply measure how many KWhs you are able to get out of the battery and then divide that by the consumption at the right speed (like TeslaBjørn).

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! The problem with "measuring" the battery capacity is charging and charger losses. I would in theory for the measurement to be accurate have a fixed charger that I knew how much the losses where at different temperatures. Using the manufactures certified capacities is going to be far more accurate. The reason I use fixed number for heat loss is because heat loss is different from battery to battery, and also discharge losses are higher below 30%, that from 100-30% SoC. This fixed number is big enough for it to be accurate enough. This is why I have never (except once) in 200-300k KM driving EVs to the limit never actually run a battery empty even though I have many, many times run them way below 0% SoC. An idea is to drive cars from 100-0%, but problem is that all cars get vastly different range. And because there is not stretch of road in Noway that would allow me to run 120kph and do A - B - A testing for more than 200ish km, the results would again be hard to compare between cars. Some tests would be A - B - A, while others would be A - B - A- B (etc). The average elevation changes (though small), average wind directions and averages speed would be more different to the current tests and thus making them harder to compare.

@cato1708

24 күн бұрын

@@KrisRifa What about simply driving it to zero and multiplying the consumption with the distance to see how much energy you can consume after heatloss?

@KrisRifa

24 күн бұрын

@@cato1708 that would probably work if there was a long enough stretch of road in Norway where you could go at 120kph for 400-500km. Because the stretch of road I use is only around 100km in each direction, that would mean I'd have to loop around multiple times. Every time you turn around you loose speed, bringing the average speed down the further you drive. If the speeds are too far apart from test to test, that means the results can't be compared directly, and they become more in accurate. For now, with the roads we have, I think having about the same deduction for losses is good enough. Either way, it is hard to make a test that is 100% accurate.

Thanks for a great video.. I've been with you for while and I realy like your channel.... "I want a Zaptec GO homecharger"

Nice. :) I want a zaptec go charger.

We’re probably at the stage where range tests are no longer particularly relevant as virtually every new car has adequate range and charging speeds for most people’s needs. What is probably more useful in 2024 are things like how efficient the car is, how usable the software is in the real world - do the driver assists actually work - like Kyle’s hogback test, is the navigation system’s range estimate accurate and helpful with charging stops - like your European trips, and I like Björn’s headlight, child seat and banana box tests - practical differentiators like that are useful.

@MasterChief37

22 күн бұрын

I like Bjørns 1000km challenges as well.

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Alternative title: the problem with the Internet

I would agree that there are always the opinions that state how much range a person gets vs your range test and it is exactly that an opinion they have no facts to back it up no scientific method or evidence. But as you say each range test is different as you say Kyle(and Tom, State of Charge) do the 70mph range test with as little elevation change as possible and a loop method similar to your loop method. But then I also see some of these once a year range tests from press outlets where they run them until they stop which are not always a loop test they may just drive on a determined route so they can get the tow trucks there easier. Chris(Battery Life) mostly does the 130km/h test with the odd vehicle he gets doing the 110km/h test as 130 is only useful in Germany generally as speed limits in other places are not usually over 110 regularly.

I want a Zaptec GO homecharger 😁

Thanks for interesting views. It is kind of difficult for small channels with one person to do this "perfect". In my head a reference car that always followed each test could be used to adjust for different driving conditions, but different cars are affected different also. Car with wide tires is more affected in rain. Cars with large drag is more affected by cold, larger car is more affected by cold (more to heat) ++ If every tester drove a Tesla Model Y Long range together for every time that could help us compare amongst reviewers, but that is impossible. Would cost a lot. I rate the range under perfect condition and that a use math to add 2kW and 5kW AC to get some real world adjustments for different behaviour. The problem is to know how different the result is from perfeect conditions. I track all my drives to my cabin with my e-tron. With more than 50 trips, there is almos no trips with the same result. The resulting range from my trips is 250km to 350km on the same car with different conditions.

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! I think the idea of having a standard follow car is good one! I also think having one winter test as one data point and one summer test (with the same car) as another data point, you could in theory extrapolate the data between those two tests. With enough cars and test, you could in theory build a wider database of test. But I would need help from somebody knowledgeable about math.

I want a Zaptec Go home charger

That's why you always say "in today's conditions". You probably should check the videos from "La Chaine EV". The test they do is pretty good, even scientific. They always drive their reference car (Ioniq 28) at the same time they are driving the tested car. No test is perfect, but by looking at some pretty good tests you'll be able to see how good or bad a car is. But it is so tricky, just because even a not so good car will be able to perform very well in a specific use. Thnx for the humble man.

I agree with you re Kyle, he should stop his range test the moment he comes off the motorway, the faffing around at 1% to dead is pointless, nobody will do this IRL.

People do get oddly heated in the comments about range tests.

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

@@godofdun that’s so true!

The plain numbers are often quite irrelevant because people will rarely drive under same conditions as in the range test. I think people have more to gain from a more curated result. Like this car has x% better range than this other competitor, but in winter it's lacking, especially on highway. The WLTP numbers are already public 😅

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

I agree! The outright range isn't the most important, but how EV A compares to EV B etc. But after close to 80 range test and 70 long trip tests, I think there is enough data on the different EV I have tested to make a opinion on which has more range that the other. Most EVs I've tested have been tested in summer and winter. I also compare them to the WLTP numbers. But I do agree that there are ways to improve my tests :)

to be honest i perfer the way you do your test because is like a worst case scenario, because of 1) the low temperatures and 2) the high speed of the test.

”I want to win a Zaptec Go home charger”

Road conditions and temperatures affect range tremendously. Maybe you should be more explcit on that when commentingyour range tests. Twice, I ran almost out of juice because of wet roads.

“I want to win a Zaptec Go home charger"

Well as an iX owner and driver, driving normal to sporty … I get 24 kWh/100km at 135km/h on the highway 22 inch wheels iX50, while most testers get 27 or more … while these range tests are an indication, frankly they are worthless, even if they are done by the same tester and route taken … wind and temperature have such a big impact that it really is meaningless. I also think some testers are dishonest, they fudge the data, for one I have driven a Tesla Model X raven, on 20 and 22 inch wheels, I could never get to the consumption of the tests … always above them, with the iX I can easily beat them 🤦‍♂

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

sorry dude, but after making this video and talking about how personal anecdotes are pretty useless for anybody else than yourself - you write a comment which is a personal anecdote 🙈 That is hilarious 🤣 So you think a documented test, where factors like temperature, weather, wind and speed are measure and compared to other cars in chart is useless? But at the same time you think a personal anecdote is useful? Sorry mate, but giving you second example you are totally missing the point of doing these tests and documenting them. Speed and elevation are super important when comparing. A Ford F-150 Lightning will get beaten by an Ioniq 5 LR AWD at 120kph, but at 60kph that F-150 will crush the Ioniq. The ford has an almost 40% bigger battery, but is penalized hard because its large and square shape. If you test both cars at 60kph, aerodynamics aren't as big of a factor and the Ford will have more of an advantage because of that bigger battery. Accusing testers for fudging the numbers is a serious accusation, and I don't take kindly to that. Most testers show the actual trip computer, so not sure how fudging is even done. Just because you allegedly cannot replicate something doesn't mean somebody is cheating.

Would like yo win a zaptec go charger

Fuel economy is the same! Cars (ICE)rarely match their official consumption figures. Depends on how you drive! Most tests get different data. Less of an issue as refuelling takes a few minutes. Surely it’s the comparison that counts? Real world usage is important.

Testing electric vehicle (EV) range under various conditions often fails to provide a reliable indication of real-world performance. Standardized tests, while useful for comparison, rarely account for the multitude of factors that affect actual driving range. Variables such as driving style, terrain, weather, traffic conditions, and use of climate control can significantly impact an EV's range. Moreover, laboratory tests often occur in ideal conditions that don't reflect everyday driving scenarios. As a result, consumers may find that their vehicle's actual range differs considerably from advertised figures, leading to potential disappointment or range anxiety. This discrepancy highlights the need for more comprehensive and realistic testing methods to provide drivers with accurate expectations for their EV's performance.

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

I agree with most of what you are saying, but disagree with some. My range at 120kph ( real world average speed of 112-116kph depending on the car) gives most people (not all) a very good idea of the least range they should expect in the real world. Most people will don't drive at that high of an average speed day to day. So a car gets 350km in my range test, you should except to get a minimum og that range in the real world. But the most important information is how EV A compares to EV B etc. That is the real value imo. But as I said in the video, I think there is room for improvement and ways to predict and compare more accurately.

Even with all the caveats. I had no issue with your tests. They are an indication. I do take issue with your attitude. User anecdotes have the same values as your tests (aka anekdotes). All modern cars keep plenty of data. I have the cars consumption on the car and app, I have public charging and home charging. All info is logged and can be provided, but not on YT. As for the speed. With apps like Waze we often drive the GPS speed, not the speedo.

I want a Zaptec go home charger

So...range tests of individual cars are pretty pointless. Good, cus I find them rather boring...

@KrisRifa

Ай бұрын

@@lt6532 not even close 🤷🏻‍♂️ did you both close your eyes and hold over your ears for the the whole video? 🙈

@lt6532

Ай бұрын

@@KrisRifa no, I just watched the first minute:D

I want to win a Zaptec Go home charger

No one will care in a couple of years. Are we testing Ice cars nowadays?

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@Bo-electric

Ай бұрын

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