I think at ”normal” metal shows, the moshing has unwritten laws, like not annoying the poeple in the front or on the sides, helping people when they fall, respecting children, and so on. The more mainstream the audience gets, the more people tend to ignore these rules. That’s at least the impression I got at the last Electric Callboy show I went to. It was super uncomfortable because people were jumping and shoving each other so excessively that you couldn’t enjoy the concert at all. They even pushed a little kid in front of me.

@kalebseiler8577

7 ай бұрын

Yes that’s 100 precent it.

@maxgehtdnixan4913

7 ай бұрын

Pretty much. The mainstream people who go don't actually "get" it and have never been to a smaller show where people who know you will tell you what you're doing wrong in no uncertain terms.

@davil1980

7 ай бұрын

I unfortunately had to experience the same thing last year at one of the smaller EC concerts in Europe. I went with my then 8-year-old and had her sitting on my shoulders, standing close to the front barricades. This was fine during the support bands, but once EC started I was regularly pushed in the back by overenthusiastic moshers a few rows behind. I decided to leave our spot in fear of being tripped or pushed over. Most people were super respectful, but a few just didn't care about their surroundings.

@luisebritta6139

7 ай бұрын

@@davil1980 I was in the second row at an arena show - where you are usually quite safe - but at the EC show I actually had to move to the side and away from the crowd because I was constantly pushed by other people. As soon as they started playing a guy shoved a 12 year old standing in front of me and when he noticed he stood there for a second, looked at the kid, shrugged, and continued to push other people. And this is something, I've never experienced at a "regular" metal show.

@Celestix666

7 ай бұрын

true, saw it at knotfest germany last year. there were 2 dudes in the first block just jumping straight into my back and into other ones, leading to a lot of anger and spilled beer. they only learned after me and another dude just decked them. we didnt care at that point that they are way smaler and lighter than us, they were dicks and had it coming.

Retired from moshing/hardcore dancing a long time ago. I’m 34, and my body takes longer to recover from injuries now. Plus, I have a little one that I have to chase around so I need to stay uninjured. The mosh/hardcore incident that made me call it quits was a crowd killing situation. The headliner of the show I was at was doing an encore, so this happened during literally the last song of the show. I was standing near the edge of the pit (I was tired from moshing the whole time and taking a breather), and the next thing I know, I’m waking up in a back hallway with people asking me questions like what day it is and what my name was. I blacked out again and the next thing I knew I was getting into the back of an ambulance. Turns out some guy was crowd killing, and caught me right in the dome. Knocked me out, gave me a concussion, and broke my nose. This also happened to be the first date I ever took my wife (who doesn’t like metal) on. We’ve been together for 16 years and married for 10. That’s actually how she met my parents, in the waiting room of the ER. Good times 😂😂😅

@raz644

7 ай бұрын

Thats a keeper, she stayed by your side without even knowing you.

@jorockish

7 ай бұрын

Yup same here, I was also big into hc dancing(90s/early 2000s NYC & NJ HC scene) and quit after that crowd killing BS started. After a few shows got out of hand. Seeing bunches of people being sucker punched, jumped and beaten (also getting my nose broken as well lol) Had enough of dealing with it. Took a long break from shows after that. I go now but Im in the back having a beer.

@KP-ol3tc

7 ай бұрын

Sounds like dude did you a favor in the end! Kidding of course but it is weird how the world works like that, eh?

@camhorejs

7 ай бұрын

What band was playing?

@michaeldrummond6809

7 ай бұрын

@@raz644definitely! And I’ve even been able to get her into some metal herself.

Im 31 and I have been to countless metalcore shows over the years. I like to stand at the front or near the mosh pit and while I do not partake in hardcore dancing or even like it if I'm being completely honest, I respect people's right to do that. What I hate though, is the 6 foot 4, 220 pound ex- d1 linebacker treating people on the outskirts of the pit like ropes on wrestling ring. Too many times are people TOO reckless and kinda seems like they are just trying to hurt people. I really fucking don't like that. Im not trying to tell people what to do especially since im 6'7 220 pounds myself but thats also why I don't crowd surf - its just not safe or smart, or fair to other concert goers. Other than that - mosh/dance away.

@donttalktome4696

7 ай бұрын

I agree. I was at an all shall perish show in the late 2000s and a hardcore dancer kept purposely trying to hit the chicks in the front row and people on the outskirts of the pit. Everyone, including other dancers were screaming at this guy, trying to push him out of the pit ect. This guy finally hit my friend right in the nose and mouth. When I looked I saw that my friend was bleeding. I never got so angry so fast. I went to town on that guy for about a minute before his friends started hitting and spitting on me. Then came security. Security tried throwing me out, but all the people around us started sticking up for me. I was also sober, so I had that going for me. Since then I just started avoiding pits.

@nightkil13r

7 ай бұрын

First concert on my own was Slipknot back in 05. The "Ropes" were the 6ft+ guys and they were absolutely launching my 110pound self across the pit back and forth just having an amazing time. Granted a 110 pound cannonball is a bit different than a 200+ pound person. Thanks for triggering that memory, my body cant keep up with that anymore although if the pit feels right for it, id be game for a round 2.

@Anuta6675

7 ай бұрын

@@nightkil13r Yeah, had a fun pit experience like that. 55kg chick, I was flying and bouncing edge to edge. The guys pushing were really careful about it too, sooo much fun!

@henrihell

7 ай бұрын

Yep. Also, it's fine to encourage people to join the pit, but you don't pull people in that don't wanna be there. And then there's the scumbags of the universe that use the pit to push themselves closer to the stage by pushing people from the front into the pit. If I stand right in front of the pit with my horns up, that means I'm taking a fucking break. I'll get back into the pit once I've caught my breath. Other people standing there might just wanna be as close to the front as they can. tl;dr: If someone isn't actively in the pit, let them be outside of it.

@brynnetessem1852

7 ай бұрын

So I had a similar experience where I like to be in the same spot you are at (I'm 30 so I'm not into the moshing/pitting anymore). I went to the bring me the horizon show last year to go see Knocked Loose. I know that band could be considered hardcore/sometimes metalcore. Some of those guys who like to do the hardcore dancing, I feel like they forget a lot of teenagers are there to see the headliner with their mom or dad. I mean I completely understand that these fans want to hardcore dance (which is in their right) but I also get very angry at my age seeing them also bait those kids into thinking they are going to get hurt. That was just my perspective at those types of blended hardcore/metalcore shows.

I miss the times where the mosh pit would collectively police itself and put people in check that were doin a bit too much.

@d.fpdxhxc

7 ай бұрын

The good ol days 🤘🥳🤘

@fingergunbari8851

6 ай бұрын

You mean metal/push pits? How about start there man. There is a different type of put at hardcore shows man. Respect our culture and we'll do the sane to yours. But sadly yours always wants to start beef with us punks/hxc kids and claim moshing as yours although it isn't a metal thing at all.

@KP-ol3tc

6 ай бұрын

@@fingergunbari8851 Take it easy bossman, I never said anything about who's "right" or "wrong". There once was a time that people who didn't belong in or around the pit would either be protected or removed for everyones safety and enjoyment because not everybody knows "the rules". It was about respecting the people you called family and not just being concerned about yourself and what you want out of the show. It's how you grow a community, not make people feel alienated.

@KP-ol3tc

6 ай бұрын

@@fingergunbari8851 hahahah btw, i grew up as gutter punk and this is exactly how that community operated. I dare you to find an Exploited or Casualties show with modern spin kicks and crowd killing.

@ZrankFappaH

5 ай бұрын

@@fingergunbari8851It’s not about who’s right or wrong imo, it’s just that metal moshing allows people to be relatively safe. Hardcore moshing/dancing ends up with people being elbowed, punched and kicked in the face. I just don’t get why? I’ve never gone out of my way to hurt someone in the pit. But the hardcore scene seems to ensure everyone gets hurt.

The same thing happened during the Black Dahlia tour it was mostly traditional death metal and then Terror was the odd one out and anyone who's ever been to a Terror show knows their fan base is going to be aggressively dancing and stage diving. But also Scott from Terror did a great job directing the crowd and making sure no one fought and everyone had a great time. I think a front person can really do alot to bridge that gap for people not as aware.

@diabeticmonkey

7 ай бұрын

Scott Vogel is a goddamn legend

@randolphsavage9760

7 ай бұрын

I was at one of their shows and when Terror started playing, you hit the nail on the head, Scott Vogel set forth the expectations before even playing. Not just in words but in attitude that everything was changing and to get fucking ready. Then they started playing and you just had to keep up but what I loved is between songs he would gauge the crowd and if he needed to give some breathing room he did (mostly by introducing the next song a little longer). Then he'd go right fucking back into it ("I want to see this whole place turn into a fucking mosh pit" were his exact words) and it motivated me MORE to start hardcore dancing and fuck me it was awesome.

One thing i noticed with pits lately is fatigue...last few shows i went to it seemed like everybody went soooo hard for the openers, then by the time the headliner came out the crowd seemed worn out and the pits got smaller and more spaced out, way lower energy for the main act. Guess we all just need more cardio 🤷‍♂

@swarthygiant1463

7 ай бұрын

lol all the covid pits going soft af

@boxkid759

7 ай бұрын

It's the same people going to these shows as 10 15 Years ago. We're just older. Pretty easy explanation there haha

@johnanastas5922

7 ай бұрын

i saw lorna shore with Gojira and mastodon and pretty much went 100% for lornas set it was a epic pit. we just left after that because im not really a fan of either of the other bands

@flaminghead1va

7 ай бұрын

I agree with you. Another factor is time AND fan bases leaving before the headliner. I've seen that so many times. So it's not just energy but # of people too. It kind of sucks that the 1st band and the last band are ACTUALLY disadvantaged, but oh well. So is life, I guess

@jacobfischer8385

7 ай бұрын

I just went to Havok opening for In Flames. Havok always has such fun push/mosh pits. Went so hard I had no energy for In flames lmao 😅

I feel ya bro! My ole ass (46) ain't getting in a pit anymore if I can help it. I been taking my 16 year old Daughter to her first shows this year and we are in seats so she can take everything in and I can enjoy sharing my love of all things Death Metal with her. It's been a AWESOME time.

@EmmureMARIO64

7 ай бұрын

Slam dancing is my thing but if it's too violent, I will back off and just watch.

@adamrodgers2377

7 ай бұрын

@@EmmureMARIO64 Hell yeah bro! If ya enjoy it, then SLAM!!!! I am having such an awesome time taking my Daughter to shows. She has always taken to the music I love and now she is in Band Class in Highschool playing the Snare Drum and her Mom and I just got her, her first Drum Set for her Birthday so she is STOKED! and so am I. It's so cool introducing your Kid to the Music you love.

I went to a cannibal corpse show in SLC. There were three security guards and they caught all the crowd surfers with no problem. The most organized security I’ve ever seen

@nwerd7584

7 ай бұрын

yeah it seems they understood the death metal fans, I haven't met many dicks who listen to lots of death metal. When I saw SuperJoint Ritual they were catching dudes no problem.. Even at GWAR shows they were always good security guards wearing ponchos.

@famcrawshaw

7 ай бұрын

Denver venues in general are very accommodating to the metal scene here.

@mikem1457

7 ай бұрын

I miss shows so bad... (from Aurora) living on maui... obviously we don't get shizz. I'm like 1 of 10 metal heads.

@bottomofastairwell

7 ай бұрын

there's a venue is Worcester, MA that i go to ALL THE TIME, the Palladium, and the security is so tight there. they have SO MANY surfers, i'm talking literally hundreds of people coming over that barricade, all night long. and there's like a dozen dudes at the front, who's whole job is just to help down the surfers so no one gets hurt. they work their asses off, but they're a great crew and i've once seen them drop people, which is wild given the amount of surfing people do. they let the crowds get pretty wild too, moshing, stage diving at the smaller shows, all that shit. But they don't bother anyone unless they need to cuz someone is causing a legit problem. They just keep everyone safe, keep an eye out, and let people have fun. and for the most part, the crowds there are pretty solid. (the one exception i can think of was Bad Omens, but what with how they blew up, that's not the venue or the usual crowd's fault, that's on the new fans who don't know the "rules") otherwise though, the crowds are pretty good, everyone helps each other up, looks out for each other and is generally pretty cool. But that's why this place is THE place for metal in NEW England. Anyone who lives around here will tell you it's always a great time. and that's how it should be. i'm just lucky that my "hometown" venue (close enough to boston) is a great one

@sirspookybones1118

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, when I saw Bleed from within, the security was carrying crowd surfers and fist bumping them. Some security was even holding people up so they could fist bump the bassist and vocalist.

I am a 50 year old metal head. I still take a stroll through the pit at shows. I have been a part of hardcore dancing as well circle pits. It is all a good time.

@hangglidingmontana6134

6 ай бұрын

So no, its not always a good time

I come from the hardcore dancing world in the 90s. My son and I were recently at a Jimmy Eat World show and were up front. As soon as A Praise Chorus starts some a couple of guys started push putting into me and I laughed my ass off. Dude, I’m 50 and with my kid and this is Jimmy Eat World. Anyways they picked up on my less than approving vibes and bounced the other direction. Kinda the wrong show for that. Anyways Tank, I have to say during your first video on this subject you absolutely struck comedy gold when you paused, looked up Bodysnatcher, played their top suggested song and got about 3 seconds into it and were like yep, I got it. Keep up the good work! To your point, situational awareness is key for these mixed genre shows. I never went to a hardcore show expecting I wouldn’t catch someone’s fist at some point in the show. It’s part of that deal.

White hoodie guy is such a vibe, he’s in that pit ready to take a nap

So I was the singer for a metalcore band named Your Eyes My Dreams in the early 2000’s. They signed to Indianola Records after I’d left the band for another local band. So we were fully involved in the hardcore/metalcore scene locally, def were the biggest of the local scene at the time. I always loved watching the crowd dance for two step parts and then throw down in the breakdowns. My biggest problem though we’re always the ones who would go to the edge of the crowd, turn their backs to them and start throwing elbows, catching the bystanders square in the face. I’m all for dancing, but that shit is and always will be an absolute dick move to me. I had it happen to me at a Zao concert once, and when they played Five Year Winter, I waited for the breakdown, got behind the kid that did it to me and started wailing on him until he apologized and we moved on. That’s the only part I hate about hardcore dancing. Two step, windmill, pick up change. It’s all great and fun to watch. Purposely swinging at the people at the edge of the circle is unnecessary and disrespectful.

There’s venues by me that i won’t go to regardless of who is playing, cuz you just can’t get away from the pit. I’m 45 and sometimes i just wanna watch the show. I’ve almost completely given up on hardcore/ metalcore shows, which sucks cuz i still like these bands

No Pressure is a skate punk band that people would traditionally push pit and stage dive for based on their sound; however they’re very well connected to the hardcore scene and often bring hardcore bands on tour with them. I brought my brother to see them in Boston last year, and he was stoked to finally get in on all the action he’d heard me talk about for years. When the openers were on we stayed on the higher level; deciding to wait for No Pressure to get rowdy. This was my brother’s first time witness dancing/crowd killing and he looked at me with a concerned face and said “I don’t think I’m gonna go down there tonight.” I reassured him that NP was known for bringing hardcore bands but that their set would be completely different. Low and behold we spent their entire set diving and shoving and having the time of our lives. When we left he said “I’m so happy that No Pressure’s set wasn’t like the others in the crowd.” I share all of this because it plays to exactly the point you made- you MUST be aware of your surroundings and the actual bands playing at all of these shows; because you truly won’t see the knockout coming if you show up ignorant.

Like 10 years ago I was filling in on drums for a friends band. After our set while After The Burial was playing, some guy went into the pit with a big ass chain and padlock and was flinging that shit around like crazy. I saw it coming my direction at the last second and barely managed to dodge it. It was like 2 inches from my face. I scooped that little fuckboy up and dumped him on his head. The venue almost kicked ME out until they saw the weapon he was swinging around. I've always thought hardcore dancing was corny AF, but hey... that's just my opinion and I always respected that it was just another way for people to show love and support, so whatever. However, it was assholes like that one and many other actual crowd killers I've dealt with over the years that really turned me off to it. Since I enjoy a lot of deathcore bands, I won't even go near a pit anymore. All I can say is that almost every fight I've seen at a show was the result of a hardcore dancer thinking he was gangster and swinging on random people in the crowd. My guitarist saw a guy get dropped in the pit and the HxC dancers just started stomping on the kid, so my guitarist ran in to cover the guy because he was out cold and getting jumped. The crowd then turned on HIM and started jumping him. I've had a very bias opinion of hardcore dancers since then.

@davey_digital

7 ай бұрын

Where was this at? I remember at Lido in Revere MA probably back in 04-05 COA did that same thing

@TheJokesterSCR

7 ай бұрын

@@davey_digital It was in Austin TX.

@wardrich

7 ай бұрын

Hardcore "dancing" is literally just a bullshit concept that was normalized to allow people to beat the living shit out of other people just because. I remember the early 00s. Nobody fucking liked these air ninjas except for the other air ninjas. We all knew it was a matter of time before the stopped swinging at the air and started swinging at other people, yet this shit was never stomped out if existence. I don't get it.

@keyjay_hr

7 ай бұрын

@@wardrichcrowdkilling/ violent pits have existed since the 80s

@TheJokesterSCR

7 ай бұрын

@@wardrich LOL! I remember I went to a Sounds of the Underground way back in like 07. When the headlining band started, there were 2 separate pits. One for the hardcore dancing and another for a traditional pit. Well, a few air ninjas decided to come into our pit and flail around. So we shoved their asses out. Then more started coming in. They were clearly looking for a fight. Once we got those ones out, all the moshers started talking to one another and we decided to ALL give them a taste of their medicine. So every one of us bum-rushed their pit and started throwing them around like ragdolls. When we thought we'd made our point and stopped, they started getting all mouthy and yelling at us like "WTF MAN!" Lol! They didn't bother us the rest of the night.

I've been going to shows since the 80s. I am still able to roll with whatever happens in the pit. However my tween daughter now wants to go with me to shows. We sit in the balcony, it's a whole different situation. You did bring up a good point. I have also noticed the bills for a lot of shows seem like really weird pairings and often I have no idea who some of these bands are or what their fan culture is. I may start doing more pre-game research. Funny side note to the original story, last show I was at my friend, also an old lady, was escorted from the pit by the cops because of over zealous security.

I'm a 53 year old-school "music fan." I rarely go to metal shows anymore, opting to sit quietly listening to jazz in a jazz club or go to a sit-down concert in a theater, but went to see Testament a couple years ago since they are my favorite 80s thrash band and Alex Scolnick is one of my favorite guitar players. Went to the very front on the left side in front of Alex to watch him do his thing. Was enjoying the show when all of a sudden I got elbowed or punched in the side of the face. My glasses broke in half and it cut the side of my nose which caused me to bleed all over the place. Security saw me bleeding and took me out to clean and bandage the wound. Well, they wouldn't allow me back in, even though I assured them I would stay in the back and watch from there. Had to sit there and wait till the end of the show because my friend was still in there and didn't know what happened to me. Some douche bag ruined the show for me because he wanted to get violent with an innocent person, intentional or not. My opinion is that hardcore dancing/moshing/whatever you want to call it is barbaric and childish behavior. And no, it's NOT MY FAULT I got hit in the face.

@datass666

7 ай бұрын

No, it's not your fault (no idea why your so defensive on that) you got popped, but that shit happens at metal shows...Going to the front of the stage is putting yourself in a position to be collateral damage, whether you like it or not. I went to a Weedeater show in '19, went upfront because, well, it's Weedeater, and I caught an elbow or a boot to the side of my head. I was told I went down hard and that my girlfriend and a guy right behind me snatched me up before I sprawled out. Dixie looked at me and mouthed out "you good?" I nodded and flipped him off, he laughed and continued slaying. I wasn't trying to be rowdy but I knew what could happen and accepted it...Also, NEVER wear glasses on the floor at any high energy show

@jazzcatjohn

7 ай бұрын

@@datass666 LOL You agree that it wasn't my fault that I got hit in the face, then proceed to tell me how it was my fault I got hit in the face. My rebuttal: I should be able to watch Alex from the front without getting hit in the face. I should be able to wear my glasses. I need them to see. People shouldn't hit people who they don't know in the face, regardless of where it's at. Hurting another person can't be justified.

If it’s worth adding to the convo: I worked barricaide for this WCAR tour at Bogart’s. Bodysnatcher was trying to beat the night before’s crowd-surfing record. I don’t want to speak for the other barricade staff but we were ready for it & crushed it! Typical mosh/surf show experiences. Good & bad surfers, but we take em all. 2 main openers were the heaviest, but overall a great night.

I really love these casual discussion videos, i usually can't join streams for them live, and sitting through an hour long plus podcast can get tiring tbh. Love this style!

"Hardcore dancing" is a term people use to make it seem like they're not violently swinging their fists and kicking and could cause pretty serious injury.

@boofingenthusiast

7 ай бұрын

Okay Dad. Nice Metallica shirt btw. Boomers gonna boom.

@mrmack2083

7 ай бұрын

@@boofingenthusiast hey if you WANT your jaw broken, Dad will happily oblige.

@JustinWalker951

7 ай бұрын

@@boofingenthusiast Lol you don't even know what a boomer is

@nooooooooope3809

7 ай бұрын

Dude, seriously. It's like, just take your baby ass to karate. Keep that shit out of my pit.

@nooooooooope3809

7 ай бұрын

​@@boofingenthusiastI've seen people hardcore dancing for at least the past 18 years. Not a new thing. You might feel a bit different when one of them kicks you in the head. Concussions are no joke.

I've had the exact same thing happen to me as a metalhead. Went to a death metal / trash metal festival, obviously this was full with push pits and the occasional hardcore dancer. You can join in at that point or simply bail, I personally wear contact lenses that are detrimental for my life so I bailed. This weekend I went to a punk / hardcore show and needless to say I did not see any pit that evening regardless of me wanting to go in one. Though I've met tons of hardcore dancers that are checking their environment before throwing around their windmills. I rather have issues with people not understanding the etiquete of a push/circle pit and having their elbows up etc. Those are unexpected and are dangerous af.

Greetings from germany:) I have to say i never felt hardcore dancers to much of a problem. I went to many hundreds of shows, and if the band just isnt too hardcore, our crowd calls hardcore kids out to relax a bit. If they still swing they get into the pushpit. But also if there is a hardcore show, people know whats going on. Overall i think the german crowd is pretty much aware of whats going on. I love both types of moshing, both can be ton of fun:)

@SourWeezle

6 ай бұрын

All due respect, the European scene is SO much chiller than in the US. Back in the day, the OG's would play "mosh police" roles, but that shit died out a while ago. Here in the states 40 y/o's wanna impress those 18 y/o hardcore girls, so they GOTTA be the toughest dude in the pit! It definitely reached the peak in 2010's example: kzread.info/dash/bejne/i5eJ0Kire5rKlrw.htmlsi=vhy1m_CgZCxUjuxk

Going to these shows in my mid 50's, i am all about the balcony now:)

These videos almost make me want to try Twitch ❤ I love the discussions, keep up the good work!

I've been to hardcore shows locally and it is so hard to two-step (hardcore dance) whenever there's other bands that have metal backgrounds

@jeremyrjackson

Ай бұрын

Ikr why tf are there push pitters to bodysnatcher? There is literally hardcore dancing in their music videos. Kyle loves that shit

I remember seeing Terror open for Converge almost 20 years ago. I wasn't really aware of the etiquette difference between hXc and the metal shows I normally went to, and immediately ate a bunch of spin-kicks and windmill fists as soon as I entered the pit. I remember thinking "what the hell, you're allowed to do that!?"

@_Captain_Benji_

6 ай бұрын

Terror and Converge? Sounds like a hell of a show!

@LilDeuceDeuce

6 ай бұрын

@@_Captain_Benji_ Converge put on a hell of a show. They were touring for You Fail Me at the time which is still my favourite album of theirs. Just found a clip from the actual show. Time travel! kzread.info/dash/bejne/dIegsbibqbW2o8o.html

One of my best push pits was when Disturbed concert and they had the entire floor (hockey/baskeball arena) pushing against eachother back and forth from side to side - that was definitely a blast.

perfect timing. Went to see ingested and lorna shore and some dude was like "its crowd killin time" and while everyone was headbanging he started running from left to right while spinning and swinging his arms/legs. Mid headbang I just felt his elbow hit the top of my skull like a fucking truck. Idk how I survived that but some people need to read the room.

@Aaron-zz3wr

7 ай бұрын

Venues need to start having these people arrested

@mikecheckindamic5722

7 ай бұрын

That last sentence should sum up the whole conversation. Some people have no idea how to read the room and I think that alone goes a long way.

@tokioobsessee20

7 ай бұрын

This! Went to see Lorna Shore earlier this year and it didn’t matter where you stood, you weren’t safe anywhere, my bf had to death grip me so I didn’t fall/get lost in the crowd. Was actually shocked that I made it out unharmed. I totally expected it but still, that should be contained to one area, not the whole floor. I hate the argument “you’re at a metal show, you’re gonna get shoved”. Save it for the pit and don’t turn the whole floor into a war zone

@flippero4918

7 ай бұрын

@@tokioobsessee20 What I hate more than that argument is when they say "Dont stand in the pit if you dont want to get hurt" when im clearly on the edge of the pit and they are deliberately punching the edges instead of all that free space. Also what are we supposed to do? If everyone who doesnt want to hardcore mosh gets away from the edge then there is eventually going to just be an empty venue XD

@lefloch9983

7 ай бұрын

​@@Aaron-zz3wrLOL Ill make sure to target you next time

During my days working venue security, the thin line between mosher and we-gotta-throw-them-out was mighty thin sometimes. It just depended on the crowd and also who was the worst person in the pit/circle. The big guys who would come in and be complete aholes tended to set the agenda and we would home in on them and try to either get them out, or warn them quickly before things got out of hand. If we didn't, things almost always got out of hand. So, in my experience, it's almost always the 6 foot 4 250lbs machobrochacho who ruins it.

@billyj.causeyvideoguy7361

6 ай бұрын

As non security, its always been the skinny tall guys with skate branded gear that ruin everything.

I used to go to shows at Harpo's in Detroit back in the day. They were notorious for booking lots of local support to fill out the bill without a whole lot of regard for matching styles. I went to either Paradise Lost and Nightwish or Epica and Kamelot and they had 3 or 4 local bands play first (one was an early iteration of Battlecross). There was black metal, deathcore, etc. Few going to a Nightwish show would logically choose those types of opening bands.

When I was in Jacksonville, NC about a decade ago the venue I went to the pit had two phases. For the first phase was just solely hardcore dancing and when they finished then the second phase was just push pit guys. It was insanely smooth transition between the two pits.

This has been a never ending battle since the mid 2k's. Dancers and moshers have an understanded ceasefire that was negotiated in the 2010's. what blurs the lines is crowd killing .

@fingergunbari8851

6 ай бұрын

Crowd killing is a fundamental part in hardcore tho. And everyone in the hardcore scene understands the unspoken rules of it.

@InkedCyclops

6 ай бұрын

@@fingergunbari8851 be truthful, a fundamental part of underground hardcore. Your local show heroes you know? In 22 years of music I’ve never seen crowd killing tolerated at an event in a purpose built venue, and even seen it in contacts specifically named as prohibited by the touring management. In any situation it’s a liability. What do you think all but crippled local music and hardcore shows? These guys have to get big on Spotify or KZread to even get a look now instead of grabbing regional opener positions on smaller tours. Then when this happens, feelings aside, will another “wcar” risk taking body snatcher out again ? Maybe if the tour venues are 150cap and under, anything greater I’d be surprised . And not just because of what happened, it’s all optics.

@InkedCyclops

6 ай бұрын

@@fingergunbari8851 Also if we are going to talk about fundamentals, What is the fundamental goal of almost every crowd killing hardcore kid at larger shows? To get kicked out as a group and brag about "all the scene kids they beat up" on snap. The "underground hardcore" scene was nothing but a plague for live entertainment, and personally cannot be happier its all but gone from decent shows.

@fingergunbari8851

6 ай бұрын

@InkedCyclops look I can't excuse people crowd killing at non hardcore shows/fest. Yes that is dumb. BUT! Don't ever call it a plague wtf is wrong with you. Hardcore people crowd kill and mosh how we do but we all understand one another and have nothing but fun doing it. We're close knit and care for one another, if you're in the scene then you see others as a family. Unlike other scenes like the metal one which I can only speak for the one in my city. But it's full of hateful racist and actually transphobic shit bags who want to play tough guys all the time

Back in the day metal heads (and I’m not talking the type of metal head Tank claims to be) and the hard core guys did not get along. If someone came in the pit swinging, they’d get dropped. They were not welcome at thrash shows. But they didn’t mix the genres either, for the tours.

@Fastwinstondoom

7 ай бұрын

Those were the good old days, I miss them.

@MandelbrotMetalhead

7 ай бұрын

Back in the day, a buddy and I would put hardcore dancers into the wall. Now it seems like hardcore has completely taken over the crowds. We could body slam them into the wall all night and not get them all. I'm sick of hardcore bands being on metal bills. We aren't like minded people.

@johnanastas5922

7 ай бұрын

in the north east the rivalry is still very strong. im like 6'3 pushing 300 if you start tossing punches and kicks its generally gunna end up pretty bad for you

@D00M3R_MAVS

6 ай бұрын

it's even like that as far away as iceland. it has became more homogenous today, but used to be like pure warfare. the HxC and metal bands (and fans) did not get along, at all. I was friends with I Adapt and Fighting Shit, and they'd tell me stories all the time. I also know some BM bands from iceland and they pretty much co signed everything I'd been told. I mean these are some hard people, and it usually ended up with your forehead hanging in your eye sight, if you F'd up and went to the wrong Show.

@PopeNorton

6 ай бұрын

@@MandelbrotMetalhead What are talking about? I went to see a show in 1987, RKL and Christ On Parade with some Metal bands on the bill. One of the metal kids snatched a punk rock girl and body slammed her to the concrete floor breaking her leg and an all out riot broke out between metal heads and punks. You'd support that shit? Stupid.

I hate both hardcore dancing AND moshpits. This year I got "crowd killed" on BABYMETAL and ELECTRIC CALLBOY shows and I had to punch people in the throat and miss parts of the show. I am at a concert for the music. Make a dedicated moshpit zone and do it all there, no one cares. I just want to enjoy the music.

I always say, knowledge of different scenes in heavy music and how they get down at shows is good for everybody who goes to shows.

My Mom came out to the Parkway Drive/Amity Affliction Monsters of OZ tour and watched the whole thing from a Adirondack Chair in the back, lol. She is a big metalcore fan and wasn't letting her bad back and the pit keep her away!

The problem is usually that wasted 300pound mosher. There's always that guy.

I saw Emmure at a small venue with Oceans Ate Alaska. The venue couldn't have been able to hold more than 100 people, and I think there might have been 100 there. To give you an idea of how small the venue was, I ended up walking over the OAA drummer's gear to get to the bathroom because he had to block the bathroom to fit his kit; respectful of his stuff and super excited to talk to him, but it was literally impossible not to walk through his gear. The venue was that small. there was like two hardcore dancers during Emmure that completely stopped the entire pit because everyone did their best to give them a few feet of room. Talk about complete lack of situational awareness. Those two dudes basically ruined the show for part of Emmure's set for the other 98 people in the room.

@nwerd7584

7 ай бұрын

I saw so many local grindcore bands in Boston years ago but they were always in some random kids basement in the area and we'd fit like 100 people in this tiny place and some of those kids were fucking nuts like headbutting concrete and jumping on to the concrete floors and shit. Those shows the bands are just basically part of the crowd, people walk all around them and shit.. some of those shows were fucking wild when a band like hive smasher played from Lowell.

@getshwiftygaming447

7 ай бұрын

Every show I've been to where people tried to hardcore dance the people in the pit came together to crowd them and prevent them from being able to do so.

@flaminghead1va

7 ай бұрын

I agree with you. As a person who enjoys hardcore dancing, 1 thing I always keep in mind is the venue size and space. It puts hardcore bands in a weird spot: their [dancing] fans can't enjoy small venues unless fewer people show up, lol. It makes me think twice before going to a small venue [hardcore] show 😂 😪

The smartest thing a venue can do is put immovable rows of chairs on the floor. It was like that in the David O' Mackay Center in Utah, when I saw Ozzy's "Retirement Sucks" tour when I was a lot younger. During the Type of Negative and Sepultura openers, there were a number of people who tried to move the chairs but 1. they couldnt because the entire rows of chairs were bolted together, and B, the ushers would intervene and tell them not to. It was brilliant. Even the very front rows was all chairs. People were just politely standing and banging their heads and singing along and it was a great time. Moshing seems cool when you're young, but what happens is there are certain people who go to shows, just to violently mosh, and that's their bag, and those people tend to hurt other people.

Thanks for being diplomatic discussing this topic. There always has to be understanding of both sides in every situation.

@Roadiedave

7 ай бұрын

Kinda hard to be both sidesy with fists flying around indiscriminately.

@humanperson7411

11 күн бұрын

​@@Roadiedaveyeah seriously hard-core dancing super cringe because it takes total disregard for literally everyone around you like I guess your not technically crowd killing but what's the difference when you still end up full force kicking someone in the stomach what does it matter that it was on purpose moshing is fine and fun and the pit polices itself picking people up being cautious of kids

As a 6ft plus metal/hardcore fan I relate to slow mosh guy so much, I am always so aware that my arms are at literally everyones head height with a fair bit of leverage and it often deters me from going too hard.

@WesWilloughby

7 ай бұрын

Yup yup. Has always been that way for me I’m 34 now and have been going to hardcore shows since I was 14 or so once I hit my growth spurt back then I found out it was way too often my arm swings are perfect height for most peoples heads. ( also I’m the slow dude in the video lol )

@bottomofastairwell

7 ай бұрын

@@WesWilloughby you're a legend.

@WesWilloughby

7 ай бұрын

@@bottomofastairwell as lazy as I was someone called me king of the pit that night and I’ve been riding that high for a week now.

@bottomofastairwell

7 ай бұрын

@@WesWilloughby i wouldn't call it lazy, i would just call it chill

@Feverm00n

5 ай бұрын

@@WesWilloughby I was totally diggin ur slow dancing!!!

Ive never been ok with hardcore dancing, if you want to mosh and have fun that's completely fine but the moment you start throwing kicks and swinging your fists you're not there to have fun anymore and every show I've been to we always punished those kind of people for attempting it in the middle of the pit. I caught an elbow to the face in a volbeat mosh pit of all places and the people in the vicinity of me went wild on him.

@_Captain_Benji_

6 ай бұрын

You sound so tough and strong…. Your muscles must be huge!

@getshwiftygaming447

6 ай бұрын

@@_Captain_Benji_ 😂😂😂 ok captain crunch lol

@jeremyrjackson

Ай бұрын

Hardcore dancing is not going anywhere. Sucks to suck. Start a fight=get jumped. Have fun!

Because of you've been discussing the incident and this tour i looked up the bands i was less familiar with on this We came as Romans tour. Now i freaking love Archetypes Collide. I'm Definitely getting a shirt putting them in my Tshirt rotation.

Lol, had to laugh at the 87 y/o quip. Went to a Napalm Death/Wormrot gig recently. Most people were there for Napalm Death so a much older crowd. The mosh whenever a song started went hard, but after a minute or two everyone got a bit tired and it chilled right out only to go mental again once the next song started.

Honestly i like the blend of hardcore dancing and push pits, and most of the time it fluctuates with each song in my experience. If you know the music youll know when the hardcore dancing will come out. I was also at the Omaha show and it wasnt anything crazy so im surprised how the one show got shut down. I always feel like shows that dont sell out arent as bad in the pit.

Just saying in Denmark, no nija shit in the pit 🤷‍♂️ hey hardcore shows is hardcore shows, especially in the US i get that. But any hands connecting with faces or crowd killing in any capacity, even at the major heavy festival Copenhell, they will be thrown out by their peers. We dont do that in the Danish metal scene , just not a part of the metal culture ❤i think that people have to ajust to the culture, snowflake at a hardcore show -suck it up, but the same the other way around 🤷‍♂️ if the crowd dont do it and its not the custom where you are just dont start throwing hands ❤

@Fastwinstondoom

7 ай бұрын

That's how it used to be here in Norway aswell, doing ninja shit at a metal show could earn you an ass-kicking for sure.

@nicolajpedersen8506

7 ай бұрын

@@Fastwinstondoom as it should ❤️

I'm a balcony guy haha. I went in one push pit once for a local metal band, got a bloody nose, stayed in the back or the balcony ever since haha.

Being short I stay away from any pit, because even a pushpit can give me a black eye 😂

💯 agree. I got more bruised and messed up on the floor of a Ghost show than I have in an actual pit in years. "normal" people/kids just dont seem to care l. Honestly, I didn't expect the roughness from teen girls at that show

Tank, I put on a Monday music festival in the woods a couple of months ago with six bands, food and beer did everything myself and it turned out great I loved the challenge. In your opinion, is there school to go to or something to get into doing what you do? because I love the work. Thanks for all your content. Any guidance helps. Thanks.

@TheDiabeticGameMaster

7 ай бұрын

That’s incredible. I’ve always dreamed of doing something like that. How much did it cost. Was it worth the money, financially? Where was this, roughly? Congrats bro! Great job!

@mal1cious_

7 ай бұрын

the best thing you can do for stuff like this is just getting in on the ground - work for a production company doing grunt work, put diy shit together like you did, talk to people who have done it for a while and eventually you'll get a good feel for what needs to be done to have a successful show some smaller universities have cool live sound or production classes, or there's usually a program for theatre that has a whole lot of crossover

Went to a MiW, Knocked Loose, Alpha Wolf, and After the Burial concert earlier this year. Honestly I was concerned the crowd would get into a fight but each type of crowd respected the other

Went to the New England metal and hardcore fest this year and the the 2 crowds got along really well. Us push/circle pit people were aware of the hardcore dancers and vise versa. Was a really good time!

Hardcore dancing ruins mosh pits, which is super fun. I am 49 now so I am no longer active in the pits.

Great message! Just asking a bit of read the room sometimes. Thanks Tank

I saw Cavalera this year and during Incite (one of their openers) a fight broke out behind us (we were on the front rail) and we started shielding this 9 year old kid with our bodies to make sure he didn’t get trampled by the two hammered drunks. Some metal heads be violent, but we always protect the vulnerable. We out here sacrificing our bodies fr

2:37 I've never seen someone in a pit just vibing, but I respect it. I'm 40 now and I haven't suffered pits for nearly 20 years--I have too many miles (figuratively and actually) to be fucking around with that anymore. Back in my teenage years when I was at punk & hardcore shows along the east coast practically every weekend, I did plenty of stupid windmilling and all that. Now I'm the guy who is content to get a front row seat on the mezzanine, sit my happy ass down, and enjoy the show from a bird's eye view. No more broken noses. No more dislocated joints. Fuck that noise!

In August I was at the Hanabie Concert in Berlin and it was my first Metall Concert. I was at the third row in the middle. I'm a 1.65m/5 foot 5 and 65kg/143 pound guy. The preband was a small german band and they were great. Then Hanabie came onto the stage and I think at the 2nd song somebody just pushed me from behind so hard, that I was flying atleast 3-4m to the right, into somebody. I could barely avoid falling to the ground, which would have been a huge issue, because I have Multiple Sclerosis (PPMS) and my symptom is spasticity in my feet and legs. At concerts I get so stiff legs that if I would have fallen, I wouldn't get up without the help of atleast 2 people. I got so scared that anytime somebody else could just push me, that I could only enjoy the concert after like 2 more songs. At the end of the concert I went from being right infront of Yukina to being right infront of Matsuri. I didn't mind that, because Matsuri was so cool jamming on that guitar. Atleast I was one of the first one's to buy merch, so that after the concert I got one of my shirts signed by the whole band. I was so happy and even though the first half of the concert was bad for me, I still loved the concert. Than on Friday last week I was at the Babymetall concert in Munich. Because of what happened at the Hanabie Concert with about 800 People, I was nervous because this concert had about 6000 People. Thats why I only felt safe at the side of the crowd. But everyhing went smooth and I really enjoyed the wild show. And lucky for me, I will see both bands again, because they are going to a Festival Tour togheter through Europe next year and I got Tickets for the Festival in Switzerland.

@sockwithaticket

7 ай бұрын

I'm sorry about your situation, man, but anywhere close to the front of the stage or near the edges of the pit is going to end up having drastic, unpredictable movement of people. Pits expand and contract over the course of the show which will lead to ripples in the crowd. It sound like your condtion means the sides or back are the best place to be.

@MultiMikstar

7 ай бұрын

@@sockwithaticket but it's sad that I can't enjoy the concert in the front, because some idiots pushing a little guy who is just head banging. I mean I didn't even notice that behind me they started a pit. I'm fine with People moshing but only with People who want to and are ready, not just push someone from behind.

@mightydegu

7 ай бұрын

​@@MultiMikstarit shouldn't be your responsibility to accommodate them. You bought your ticket to see the show. No part of that transaction obligates you to yield your spot to entitled idiots. I personally don't care if people want to mosh or hardcore dance, but it needs to be in a designated area.

@sockwithaticket

7 ай бұрын

Unfortunately, it is what it is. Even with soft bands people press towards the front and you can get quite crushed and pushed about there. With heavy music there's always the chance of crowd surfers and stage divers coming over you, maybe even falling on you if people can't hold them up. The pit, whether it's hardcore dancing or pushing, is a dynamic environment that doesn't have a fixed area of effect. If you stand far enough away from one you avoid being impacted by it, but a depth of several people in any direction from the pit should be considered a sort of risk zone where something happening in the pit can have a knock on effect in terms of getting pushed. Pits are usually close enough to the front that those rows will feel some impact from the ebb and flow of the pit. The front just isn't a good spot to be if you need low contact.

@jaegermeister798

7 ай бұрын

With Babymetal, they promote their own form of moshing called mosh’sh, which means “friendly pushing and shoving”. What that ends up translating to is moshing but being respectful about it. Keep things in the pit, no hitting, helping people up when they fall, etc. In other words, follow the unspoken rules. It’s sad you had to deal with that at a Hanabie concert. Looks like people have been having similar problems with Electric Callboy. Two other bands I would have hoped wouldn’t be an issue considering the vibe they have.

I'm in my 50's and still hardcore Mosh. Been to shows that did mixed genres like cannibal corpse and sick of it all or type o and hatebreed . You have to own the bands your seening.an the groups that will be there . Living in Boston. An going to shows since 1986. You have to be aware. I delt with skinheads,punks ,metal heads, hardcore/beatdown crowds and the east coast fsu crew in late 80's and 90s. Just comes down to giving everyone there space and having a good time and knowing what your in for .

@NPK476

7 ай бұрын

Remember when FSU beat the shit out of Moby? SLAYER and Sick of it All at the Axis!

@Themartinezjoeshow

7 ай бұрын

@@NPK476 I remember it as well. An fsu waiting for lead singer of chimaria at the Worcester palladium to get off stage for bad mouthing them. Those were crazy days

I can remember, pertially, beeing 16, some centuries ago, or in 1996, I went to a hardcore show, NY bands, dancing, I got en ellbow on my chin, I stumbled to the bathroom, set down and wake up after the show. That told me a lesson. Things might not changed a lot.

My first metal show was Powerman 5000, Static-X, and Dope. Was in Las Vegas, and naive 18yr old me went solo with floor seats with a mosh pit being a completely overlooked concept. I started front row at the stage and lets just say I learned that wasnt where I should be. Still the favorite show I ever went to but i havent chosen floor seats again at a metal show

Started to going to concerts this year, I'm 24, most notably I've been to Electric Callboy, Sabaton, and Babymetal (twice) and, like, I was always aware that pits are a thing, but I've never seen the appeal. Seeing them live however? Made me go from "that's not for me" to "that's ruining my experience." On EC I went into the building pretty early so I had really good spots like maybe 5-6 rows of people away from the stage but the pit just kept growing and I finally ended up on the edge of it, and people were just running into me randomly from time to time. I gave up my spot and moved further away to escape that situation effectively downgrading my viewing experience. You either go in extra-early to be in the first 2 rows or you face the pit. It's not like I'm standing around doing nothing, I'll headbang hard for 90 minutes straight, approprietly throw my fists in the air and yell my lungs out to the songs, but the pit is just a huge nope; to each their own, but I can't fathom how people can enjoy bumping into each other hard for an hour or so. It definitely would've been better if people in the pit were more aware of people around them

I took my family to a metal show a few months back. My wife and daughter hung out on the outskirts of the pit but my 14 y/o son was with me in the mosh the whole time and loved it. Proud dad right here.

I remember the first time I saw a ninja swinger in the pit. It was at Eighteen Visions, Atreyu, Chimaira and Lamb of God. Back in like 2003. I was really huge into traditional moshing at that point in my life and this kid just started swinging during Atreyu.. so I pushed him pretty hard, because I was like "you don't throw punches in the pit!!" His friends ganged up on me. One kicked me in the leg trying to take out my knee. Threw him in a headlock. Got wild. Definitely a show with a mix. I realized swingers were a thing. Didn't understand it but whatever.

Missed out on Emmure growing up but got to see them at the Hartford show during the tour and had a blast

I don't know the difference between "Hardcore" and Moshing but I have been going to mosh pits since it has been around and we always swung and fought with each other. We didn't just push. We also helped each other so no one got trampled.

@EmberMcLain87

7 ай бұрын

Hard-core does all the karate kicks, and somehow still get mad when they get kicked despite doing the same Kung fu stuff

@kameronkueck7935

7 ай бұрын

Same with me. I’ve always had a mixed experience

@gabrielkain1

7 ай бұрын

@EmberMcLain87 OH ok. Yea if your gonna pit then you should expect to fight. I mean your not trying to kill each other,your just having fun violently.

@Aaron-zz3wr

7 ай бұрын

Swinging your arms at someone's face is a crime

@gabrielkain1

7 ай бұрын

@Aaron-zz3wr Then you shouldn't be in a mosh pit. Back in the day we all knew what would happen.

Last time I saw Sunami and Knocked Loose perform I got the wind knocked outta me by a crowd killer 😭 the old head that I was shoved into looked like he wanted to kill someone 😂 we were nowhere near the pit!

@Red1676

6 ай бұрын

You knew it was a thing, that's on you.

@terminaldeity

6 ай бұрын

You went to a Sunami show and expected to leave unscathed?

@Feverm00n

5 ай бұрын

@@terminaldeity so is it just a thing where if you want to go see certain bands you should only go if you’re literally willing to risk physical injury? Like, is it actually that certain that people will hurt you no matter what? Genuinely asking as someone who is new to this genre and trying to figure out if I’ll ever be able to go to a show. I’m a tiny person I’m not trying to get a concussion or broken bones.

I remember seeing we came as Romans and Emmure as coheadliners back in like 2012 in Portland Maine. Blessthefall was one of the openers and they had a new song called the reign out. They had a great idea of having everyone take their water bottle/beverages and swing them over their head like it was raining. While people were running in the circle pit, some kid fell right in front of me on the wet floor and left a tooth in the floor. Remember it vividly. Wet floors and moshing don’t go well together lol

I like it when the circle pits have hardcore dancers in the middle and pushing on the outside.

I've never really understood it tbh. I'm here to watch the show that I paid for. Also, I have this natural inclination where if I get punched, kicked, or elbowed, I kinda want to do something about it, and somebody saying "I'm just moshing bro" doesn't do anything to extinguish it.

@badwerds

7 ай бұрын

Exactly. Throw strikes in a crowded room and you are liable for what they hit.

@drbakterius9232

7 ай бұрын

Same here. I love going to shows to see my favourite bands play live but sometimes the moshing just absolutely ruins it for me. I just recently went to a concert of while she sleeps. One of my favourite metalcore bands ever. Loved their music and show which is why it kills me that i will most likely never go to another show if this is what all of them will be like. There was not a single spot where you wouldn't get pushed around

@gokuboi980

7 ай бұрын

It's part of the culture. Always has been and always will be. If you're unaware of the potential risks involved with going to a hardcore show, i'm sorry, but that is on you. The dancing, the energy, the risk, the chaos..IS part of the show. It's just as fun watching from the balcony if the pit/floor isn't for you.

@davesravens47

7 ай бұрын

I agree. When I want to mosh or thinking about moshing, I go near the middle of the venue to be in position for when it breaks out. If I’m not interested in moshing and just wanna watch, I’ll stand in the back or side or balcony. Everyone who go should be able to enjoy it how they see fit but you also should place yourself in the areas where it’s feasible. Nothing I hate more than to see an innocent bystander to get hurt because someone didn’t read the room but at the same time I’ve had people try to fight me because they got bumped when there’s clearly a pit going on and you’re standing near it lol

@nolovedrjones9668

7 ай бұрын

​@@gokuboi980We dont care. If you strike people against their will, you are a bad person and might get hurt.

I went to the Darkbloom show at the HMAC & it was a really fun show! I felt like the bands were really cognizant of the crowd, maybe because of the controversy. There were kids (like 3-5 range) in the crowd the entire time for the whole concert. Moshers kept our distance from the kids, picked up anybody that got wrecked, etc. I’ve got video of all that, so I don’t think the crowd is as bad as they said

@bottomofastairwell

7 ай бұрын

i was at the show in RI. and i can tell you it wasn't the crowd. security was definitely on some overly aggressive roid rage style trip that night. never going back there again. Thankfully i live in Boston, and the legendary Palladium is just as close, and that place is 10/10. great security that lets people get a little wild and have fun, but keep everyone safe. that place is always a great time. Fete though? straight to hell with them

@TStizzle19

6 ай бұрын

​@@bottomofastairwell Palladium is top tier!!! As a MA native it's a personal favorite of mine

@bottomofastairwell

6 ай бұрын

@@TStizzle19 same, every time i got there it's always a BLAST. And since i go there so damn much, the staff is always great to me. love those folks

Dying Fetus tour had hardcore dancing for the openers and push for the headliner. Let em dance! and let em push! I remember seeing a split pit back in the day, one for push and one for hardcore side by side.

Yeah, at this point, I've had my fun in pits, both Metal and Hardcore/Metalcore/Deathcore. I still love the bands, still will go see them. Now it's balcony/bar with hearing protection in, because I have enough damage over the years...

Went to Lorna Shore in Albany and some psycho 4'something fat girl was way outside the pit just flailing around and smashing into people. I shoved her away from my girl multiple times and the friend she came with left without her because she was acting up so much. Eventually the girl I was with (who wouldn't run the risk of being arrested for putting hands on this clown) grabbed her by the shoulders and told her she needed to stop or she was going to get shoved to the pit. I don't have an issue with it in the designated area. People who want no part need not have any part. But if you play that game be prepared to win those prizes.

@vagabondtv3246

7 ай бұрын

Was this at the underground? I saw Johnny Booth there and there’s absolutely people that go to this venue specifically to crowd kill and hardcore dance to more moshy-type bands. Also this weird predatory stage divers that would pick on the designated “girls spot” in the front where I delegated my girl and the girlfriends of the group we were with. My buddy and I tried telling him to stop and when he wouldn’t he received a couple VERY uncomfortable body shots and headlocks in his trip back to the pit.

@cummins24421

7 ай бұрын

@@vagabondtv3246 was at Empire Live back in the spring. First and only show I'd been to in the area but was a relatively typical experience based on other place I've been.

@Dayman420

7 ай бұрын

I think this is a problem that happens at most shows that needs to be highlighted more, there’s nearly always one or two tiny women, who want to mosh, but are scared of the pit, so they do it where no one is moshing, on some level I do feel for them, they want to participate without getting injured, but they make it everyone elses problem instead of just dealing with the fact they are probably too small to join in.

@cummins24421

7 ай бұрын

@@Dayman420 Sure that could be it, but at the same time I don't go try to play pro basketball because I'm 5'9" and that's just reality. The solution to that isn't for me to go jump on a middle school court and start breaking ankles. Plus, if she did hop in the pit she'd probably find that most of the bigger dudes would take it easy on her and take care of her if she did get schwacked. But you're definitely going to have a bad time if you think you're going to be knocking my girl in the back of the head.

@flaminghead1va

7 ай бұрын

​@Dayman420 I get what you're saying. I agree with Cummings. Every time ive seen ANY girls in the pit, they miraculously don't get hurt. Granted I've only seen 2 national act shows where hardcore dancing was prominent, but still. I guess it depends on the crowd too. At the TDWP/Counterparts show, I saw this 1 skinny short girl would go in the pit for like 30 seconds of wild swinging, then go back out to the edge of the pit. She did this 2 or 3 times 😂 and never got hurt

It definitely goes both ways... with bands like bodysnatcher and knocked loose playing with all types of metalcore bands youre going to have hardcore dancing when you may not usually see that.. i think there just needs to be a unspoken rule of 2 different pits.. one for dancing and one for moshing 🤷🏾‍♂️

@Hip-Gnosis1134

7 ай бұрын

That’s why it’s funny to me when bands like Carnifex insists on walls of death and circle pits. those pit styles don’t really go with the music you make 😅

@sockwithaticket

7 ай бұрын

While some bands are definitely METALcore, there's also plenty of metalCORE. Hardcore dancing is perfectly normal at metalcore shows and has been since the 90s. Anyone going to one needs to expect it as a possibility.

@TrealFOET

7 ай бұрын

@sockwithaticket yea i get what your saying... but im definitely not talking about august burns red, unearth, or bands like that.. im talking about bands like of mice and men, underoath, or bands like that.. I just went to see knocked loose last month and motionless in white was headlining lmaoo those are 2 very different crowds..

I remember back in 99 or 2000 when Cryptopsy and Poison the Well were playing on the same bill. There was nearly a brawl between moshers and hardcore dancers at the show I went to in St. Paul.

I was thinking this as well during the Omaha date! the younger kids/push pitters during archetypes collide and WCAR, those kids were no where to be found during Bodysnatcher and Emmure sets but yes you need to be aware of the bill and your surroundings!

Hardcore dancing is coming to the death metal world now. A lot of the fans of this new wave of death metal are coming from the hardcore scene. I saw Gates To Hell, Creeping Death, Despised Icon, Acacia Strain, and Dying Fetus and there was plenty of hardcore dancing as well as circle pits, and not just for Acacia Strain and Despised Icon but for the straight death metal bands too. You see hardcore dancing for a lot of these new death metal bands like Frozen Soul, Vomit Forth, Sanguisugabogg, Kruelty, etc

@Idk_thoo

7 ай бұрын

Man it's impossible not to mosh to gates to hell. Those riffs are just simply too heavy

@jackknight1065

7 ай бұрын

When i saw Cannibal Corpse, there was a group of hardcore dancers. They really ruin an otherwise enjoyable pit

@larbear666

7 ай бұрын

@@jackknight1065maybe cannibal corpse shouldn’t right heavy ass riffs if they don’t want people to mosh

@particlejim

7 ай бұрын

That's because most of the bands in this new wave of death metal are all guys from the hardcore scene. Gates To Hell, Creeping Death, Sanguisugabogg, Kruelty, Vomit Forth etc... All of them have their roots in hardcore

@trenton17b32

7 ай бұрын

All of those new death metal bands are dudes from the hardcore scene so they encourage it at their shows. That's also why you see them playing hardcore festivals like Sound and Fury for example.

I never understood the hardcore dance. I had friends who lived for this shit in the early 2000s. I would go to shows with them and get second hand embarrassment.

@fingergunbari8851

7 ай бұрын

Imagine going to a show and just wanting to push each other around and run in circles. That shit sucks

@badwerds

7 ай бұрын

​@@fingergunbari8851 if you want to beat people up go join a boxing gym ffs. Being knocked out in a crowded room is nobody's idea of fun, and if knocking out unsuspecting strangers in crowded room is your idea of fun you are a coward and a sociopath

@TheJokesterSCR

7 ай бұрын

@@fingergunbari8851 As opposed to fighting invisible ninjas? And doing it poorly, might I add... LOL!

@GamingSaurusRexYTube

7 ай бұрын

@@TheJokesterSCRyea that shits fun ash bro

@fingergunbari8851

7 ай бұрын

@OneSickDrummer hell yeah that's the point. Jesus

I caught the Make Them Beg For Death Tour that Despised Icon and The Acacia Strain were on and surprisingly there was a ton of push pits. When I had seen Despised last there was pretty much no one but hxc dancers. It was crazy, but then like you said there were moments that both were in harmony. Vincent from TAS stood up for the crowd having fun too because a couple security guards copped tudes with a couple crowd surfers.

@nooooooooope3809

7 ай бұрын

Acacia Strain rules live. Doesn't surprise me it's more push-pit stuff, they've been around for a long time.

I think in a few years we'll start seeing hybrid pits become the norm, I'm already noticing it in the underground with all the upcoming "caveman death metal" bands like Sanguisugabogg, 200 Stab Wounds, Kruelty etc... Essentially guys from the hardcore scene playing straight up old school death metal but with some hardcore mosh parts (it's somehow a very different thing to deathcore though). Because they came from the hardcore scene they have a lot of dancing at their shows but musically they sound closer to shit like Cannibal Corpse or Obituary so they also bring in a lot of the battle jacket wearing "real fuckin' metal" crowd. At those shows it seems like both sides are slowly starting to figure out how to mosh in harmony and understand when the different types of mosh happen, I think as the lines between metal and hardcore continue to blur this will become more common and I think eventually we'll get to a point of fully hybrid pits, which I think could go something like this: Blastbeats/skank beats/fast stuff = push pits, circle pits, wall of death etc Mid tempo sections = either push pits or 2stepping (depending on the feel/groove) Slams/breakdowns/slow & heavy parts = invisible ninja spinkick windmill funtimes I also think that crowdkilling (which as you correctly stated is not the same thing as hardcore dancing) should not be welcome at shows with a mixed metal/hardcore crowd at all. Now, if hardcore kids wanna crowdkill at beatdown shows with an exclusively 100% hardcore audience that are all onboard with crowdkilling then that's up to them, but it should stay extremely tightly contained within that very specific corner of the scene (if it's going to happen at all). If you're crowdkilling at cross-genre shows with crowds who are not part of the hardcore culture then you're fuckin' up and setting back metal & hardcore relations

@liamkelly6459

7 ай бұрын

Yeah I havent been to many large shows, but almost all the small ones i've been to recently have had hybrid pits where the mosh style changes multiple times a song. Its definitely the best kind of pit.

I was at a show where there was a young mother with a kid in a Baby Bjorn and sound proof headphones. Myself and a bunch of other dudes formed a circle with about 5 feet of space around her so she could enjoy the show and not have the pit spill into her and the baby. She bought us all a round of drinks between one of the sets!

I saw Hatebreed in Toronto a couple months back. 3 opening acts were hardcore bands I’ve never heard of. My girlfriend wanted to go so it was more her scene. There were a lot of “hardcore dancers” in the pit. My girlfriend was already playing out in her head what she would do if any of them hit or bumped her 😆 The security staff were very easy going and were looking out for the safety of fans and body surfers. They knew people were there for a good time. This was at the Danforth Music Hall. I was quite surprised by the professionalism of the security staff there.

@AlwaysUp-uf9dl

7 ай бұрын

Hey! I was at that show! One thing I've noticed about Toronto crowds is that we tend to go with the flow. I've seen people form a barrier around 3 or 4 hardcore dancers specifically to keep them away from push pitters; I've also seen hardcore dancers tune it down a a few notches when they realized no one else wanted to play crowd killer with them. Idk if that's a local thing, but Toronto doesn't get confrontational over dance styles. We just make room for everybody.

@mopsandmuscles7855

7 ай бұрын

@@AlwaysUp-uf9dl there was plenty of space at that event, that made it easier to avoid the hardcore dancers. My girlfriend found a way to get to the front, away from the action, for Hatebreed's set. Her favourite band. At the front I was able to see the security staff interacting with the crowd surfers. They looked like they were enjoying themselves doing their job, making sure everyone was safe. I've been to a number of shows in Toronto the past few years, and the only venue I had an issue with pissy security staff was at History.

@AlwaysUp-uf9dl

7 ай бұрын

That's funny. Hatebreed is also my favourite band, and I put myself in the middle of the pit to have what I think of as the full HB experience. Different strokes, but I bet both of us got exactly what we wanted out of the show! @@mopsandmuscles7855

Hey Tank, shout-out from the boro. I’m newish to your channel, found you with your BRRF breakdown. Didn’t realize you were in Nashville. In all of the vids on this ordeal, I’ve mentally compared it to the shows I’ve seen at Marathon. I love that place. Never seen an issue there; I saw Cody from Set It Off standing on the crowd a couple months ago. Just found it ironic that your final chapter was what I’ve been comparing to all along.

So, the last show that I had an issue with hardcore dancing vs moshing was when I went to see Nothing More this past summer in Portland, OR. Those of us who wanted to push pit and started off moshing quickly left the pit to avoid getting windmill-ed. My poor older brother who has never experienced the scene before and standing on the edge of the pit, had his ankle kicked and broken by this guy. Now, I could say for the opening acts, hardcore dancing would have been appropriate for the feel of one of the opening acts, but the four or five hardcore dancers kept the other ten plus people who wanted to push pit from feeling safe enough or comfortable enough to be in the pit.

My poor sister one time: we were at a Marylin Manson and Alice Cooper show. Two completely different types of crowds. The younger, metal goths and older, classic rock people. Manson was on his last couple of songs, and we were up in the lawn area of the amphitheater. People were moshing in the center of the lawn, and we were trying to move around it. Like a freaking tornado, my sister, who is pretty petite, gets sucked up into this thing. I was trying to hold on to her and pull her out, but I couldn't reach. This older guy who saw, who was definitely there for Alice Cooper (black top hat, black eyes, etc. So cool), reaches in, grabs her hand and just pulls her right out. I think my sister almost had a heart attack 🤣 Safe and sound, no harm done, but we laugh about that all the time. It's crazy how powerful that group can be. I stay on the outside of them. At least 3-4 rows of people between the moshing and me. I do go to this one venue in Phoenix a lot that doesn't allow any of it, which I kind of appreciate. Just gotta know what you're getting into.

@starchitin

7 ай бұрын

I've been to every Marilyn Manson show I could get to since 97 when I saw them on the Dead To the World tour (which was the first concert I ever went to)... I'm honestly surprised they had a pit in the lawn area of an amphitheater. In arenas they generally have a bit of pit action, but nothing like other bands similar to them. People that get into MM just generally aren't aggressive in that manner.... unlike those that are fans of Korn or harder bands. I did get to see Alice Cooper a couple months ago (on tour with Rob Zombie), he put on an amazing show I'm glad I finally got to see.

@caseyjones3522

6 ай бұрын

this isn't the same thing. Hardcore dancing is way more dangerous.

I remember back in my 20's and a huge fan of the Hardcore scene but I also worked as security because of my size but in one instance I was on the edge of the pit and one kid was HC dancing and doing spin kicks and he had kicked really close to my head and just instinctively put my hand up to block the kick heading to my face and when his foot made contact with my hand he dropped like a sack of potatoes and that's all the pit saw and they all started to get super pissed at me but I picked him up and the dude was apologetic towards me but the rest of the night people were giving me the stink eye which made the rest of the show unenjoyable.

@tsohgallik

7 ай бұрын

If that's you in the photo I would be afraid too 😂😅😂 You look like a police officer can't enjoy a show if there's undercover

@BudCoy

7 ай бұрын

Lol, definitely not a cop!! @@tsohgallik

So happy I caught this today, my scene has a problem with this, all the indies and punks (add a couple miscellaneous genres or whatever) managed to mix, everyone’s learned how to mosh, but all half the people who’re into harder stuff who start the pits, are either metal heads or hardcore kids, so you’ll get lines of people head banging, locked arm and arm, with the hardcore dancers running around them, I’ve met a lot of people, especially girls who just wanna go and have a traditional push pit tell me they’re utterly afraid because it’ll happen, and next thing you know the hardcore kid comes in and it becomes a mess

I enjoy forays into the pit, but i didnt last long in the Chicago pit when Deicide were on the Legion tour. That one was insane.

I got a concussion from someone hardcore dancing in a push pit. Blindsided me right in the tempo. Ive been bias ever since.

Knowing what you are okay with at a metal show is important. I used to love the pit and never had an issue with crowd surfers before, but a recent Beast in Black show woke me up to the fact that I can't be in or around them anymore and enjoy myself. I'm a 41 year old trans woman and the amount of strength I have lost since starting hormone replacement is insane. I cannot support the weight of crowd surfers anymore to the point I nearly tore my shoulder trying to save someone nearly going down off to my side. I just can't safely be front and center for a metal show anymore and my body cannot take the beating. Will I still enjoy myself to the side? Absolutely, but I need to be aware of the types of shows and what is safe for me to be doing at this point in my life. Awareness of environment and self is key.

Hey dudes. 6’4 chill af dancer here, I’m 34 and I was indeed drinking all day ( not hammered by any means tho ) I was tired af tho. 😅 I left halfway through the emmure set and went to bed. 😂

Definitely there needs to be some awareness about pits. I been to shows like MIW were we there was only a push pit and a bunch of people was so upset and even started fights because they didn’t really understood what was going on. And also seen people get punched in heavier shows like bodysnatcher or even thy art is murder and start fights over it.

I love how it's been dubbed "hardcore dancing." When those turds started ruining traditional pits in the 90s, we called it "people being dicks." 🤣

Crowd killing is the only thing i dont like.. everything else just comes with the territory 🤷🏾‍♂️

Can confirm Josh Travis is cool as shit. Hung out with him in Orlando at one of the Glass Cloud shows. Wish they were still together.

These people are there for themselves and attention. Music is just a sideshow form them.

@atvena

7 ай бұрын

As opposed to being there for the music so they can mosh to it live ?

@flaminghead1va

7 ай бұрын

You shouldn't stereotype. Not all hardcore dancers are out to crowdkill. Tank even said that, himself. If the music goes into a beatdown, come on. Let people have a FUN release, as long as they aren't targeting other people

No karate in the pit

Im now 58 years old now and I have been moshing since 1989 punk rock , grunge , metal shows . I listen to new bands and love the new hardcore stuff but I know when to step away during certain shows.. So far I am more safe during the Rancid and Pennywise lol ! But I did plenty of moshing this past year during the festivals like Rockville and Louder Than Life. Just don't punch people !!! Thanks for the video , keep up the good work.

"I'm too old to pit..." 😂😂 Love that!

The problem with hardcore dancing is it’s not dancing, it’s sissies play fighting.