great. But this video could have been 3 minutes long.

Good tip. Definitely something to consider during a tracking session. I always record samples before or after a tracking session, but I never thought of cymbals. However, the point you're making in this video (which happens at about 6 minutes into the video. the rest is just repeating your point for about 8 minutes), can actually be tweeted. That's how simple and short of a tip this could be. Make it a KZread short instead: Cymbals not having enough impact on the downbeat of your tracks? Add a sample on a separate track to accent it! There, the point of this video in 111 characters. Easily condensed in a short video of about 30 seconds including an example of the issue presented, an explanation of what the fix is, a showcase of the effect that this fix has on a mix and a quick rundown of the benefits of implementing this in your workflow. This will keep the time you spent on making your videos a lot shorter, gain more traction due to the KZread algorithm getting more focused towards short and easy to consume content and you'll make sure all viewers actually get what the point is that you're making before clicking on another video. It will also leave you with more time to properly mix your voice overs. They need some processing, especially since you're an audio engineer and this channel is about pro audio. Good point, but very hard to consume the content that's supposed to convey the message. Keep it up!

I used to hit each drum and cymbal separately after a take at different levels. That way the engineer could place them anywhere to fix missed hits or to use it for the purpose you just explained. You're then also using the same samples that were used on the kit, instead of using stock sounds.

@neilsherman3483

2 жыл бұрын

Damn I wish I did that last weekend!

@pavlebn

2 жыл бұрын

Did this for the last recording session just in case, came in very handy afterwards :) Mixed the drums a lot faster than I would've otherwise

@paulcussion12

Жыл бұрын

I always do that. And if you ask nicely, the engineer even gives you processed stems so you can use them in your home studio. Comes in quite handy when you record something on a e-kit.

This is why after every drum track I always record each drum and cymbal individually. I give it enough space in between. You may need one of those and you won’t have to use samples. You can use the cymbals and drums to used to create the track and it won’t sound out of place

I wouldn't have noticed this as a problem but your fix really emphasizes how much I should pay attention to this in my own productions. Thank you.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Geoff!

This is the way. Added bonus is that you build a rather large sample library of various kits and cymbals at varying velocities. Build your own instrument presets for your preferred software sampler. Sample your kit at the beginning of the session while the skins are fresh and in tune.

Great tip! I'm going to implement it a little differently. Instead of pasting audio clips of cymbals, I'm going to use Superior Drummer on a midi track and program the cymbals. This should give me a wide pallet of cymbals, and hits in quick succession, like when riding a crash, won't sound at all choppy. Once I'm happy with the programmed midi cymbals, I can bounce it to an audio track for mixing. Again, thanks for the brilliant tip!

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Great! Or maybe try Dr. Bobs Sizzlin Cymbals! www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=B655CNKH7L26W

As always... Thanks Bob!

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jav!

Was thinking how to try this. Then I remembered. I already bought Dr. Bob's drums and sizzlin cymbals! Can't wait to give it a go. Anyone reading this. Try them. The drum samples alone made my drum sounds instantly better. With little effort. Can make a patch in Trigger to try them out in a song. Worked wonders on toms.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kindness Tesla!!

Another golden tip - I'm inspired to try something new on my tracks

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Great Michael!

Hmm, funny enough I have always done this! I always though the crash cymbals can sometimes get buried in rock/metal tracks, especially on the downbeats. Been doing it with SSD for years! Great tips!

@MePeterNicholls

2 жыл бұрын

I always had to ask drummers to REALLY hit their cymbals. They thought the levels I was asking were absurd. Until they heard it back.

I tend to over mic drums usually because of this. I can always take away something I don’t like, but it’s much harder to add it back in what you don’t have it at all.

LOL, RIGHT before you said, "I might have my headphones on backwards" I was like, "Oh shit, do I have my speakers plugged in backwards?" Hahah you scared me. Also just to add, what I love about this too is, Think of it as being able to play with the decay time. You can use this as extra initial SMASH but I suppose you could automate that down too, so that if you have a faster track, you can add the smash without them taking forever to decay. Or the other way, if you have a slower song and wanted that longer decay, you could do automation in the sample to crescendo to ADD decay. Like in When the Levee Breaks and the cymbal takes 2 full bars to decay. Might be awesome for some things. GREAT trick Dr. Bob!

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks man!!

another great video Bobby! Would you ever setup a MIDI trigger on cymbals during the session? Or is that too finicky/too much work vs manually doing it afterwards

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Good comment Daniel. I suppose that is possible but I've never tried and always skeptical of live triggers....Could work though!!

@phoenixmediaforge

2 жыл бұрын

It doesn't have to be done during the session. If you are triggering MIDI off of audio it can be done later.

Great stuff, its crazy how limited our creativity can be sometimes as this is something that probably most engineers wouldnt think of as they tweak their drums tracks to hell and back trying to fix a problem like this, and sometimes its not a problem but just missed potential.. which ends up becoming a problem when missed. So true about the exclamation points, kinda like the tambo single shot soaked in verb.. those exclamation points can wake up shallow mixes, liven slow tunes, badassen your mythos, and really can be the make or break for an entire mix.

I'm not sure what Chris Lord Algae will think, but I think you're cool. Thanks for cymbal trick!

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Chris was very impressed with this technique...that's exactly what he thought...

Oh yes! Always provide cymbal samples (for yourself or for any external engineer mixing the track) for all more complex productions, whenever precision control is desired, and rough & live sound is not the goal. Also, augmenting some of the natural cymbal hits in the overheads with different cymbal samples, e.g. flanged crashes, tuned splash cymbals, reverse cymbal hits etc can really do a lot for arrangement transition parts impact and drama, when needed. And, of course, know how & when to leave it alone,

always a good call to save someone who makes $10,000/song some time 😂 this is awesome

Yeah, I'd be looking to make sure I impress anything going to CLA. Very cool!

@BobbyHuff

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Thank you!👍

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome! Kayda!

Nice trick for sure

Love it. Just wondering though, are you recording samples of the cymbals during every session to use on these tracks, or are you using cymbal hits from elsewhere? Like, for example from Slate or some other drum sample instruments?

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Hey Michael. I use these… www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=B655CNKH7L26W

Excellent Bobby !!!! Since i subscribed to your channel i have changed the way i record and produce . Im missing your Wednesday night video’s . Im guessing your getting busy and don’t have as much time .

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jav! I miss Wed nights too! My schedule is out of control at the moment! ha....All Good!

Excellent!!

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Rodrigo!

Sounds great

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Todd!

That's a great idea.

I made a habit in creating samples after drum sessions just in case. They are done in literally minutes but can help later on.

HEY! I noticed you were working with cubase, as am I. Funny thing is im working on a mix where ive done the same thing- I used hitpoint detection to generate midi from the audio. But I had to spend way too long making sure that it was correct. I still haven't found the perfect way to line up the midi w the audio. I know that's a little different because you used actual audio samples- but I was curious if you have done this with kick, snare , cymbals (anything) and if you had any advice other than using your ears? Maybe there's a way to check? its just tough to determine where to line up the midi note with the audio. It was hard to decide whether it should line up with the audio the very first moment it leaves zero crossing, or at the peak of the transient- if that makes any sense.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

I find the hit point detection very accurate. I’m a super stickler for the tiniest bit of flamming. Tell me more about your problem so I can understand and try to help. I always make sure midi notes are at the front of the transient that I’m applying the sample to.

Will definitely try this. Did you try limiting the overheads as an alternative? I often have succes with that since it brings the snare down in the overheads (usually the loudest transients in the overheads) and allow me to bring up the cymbals. I don't send mixes to CLA though :)

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Ha! I have tried everything but this technique gives me the most options.

@NikolajChristensen

2 жыл бұрын

@@BobbyHuff yeah for sure. Maximum control. I wonder if the future brings us Trigger for cymbals with AI and whatnot. Thanks for the videos man.

Reevaluate your whole life, No kidding! You’re my favorite doctor… 😎

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Hahahaha

Very nice.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks my friend! Miss u.

I'm always baffled that more producers don't do things like what you just showed. The big pet peeve I have at the moment is modern Metal producers not letting Toms resonate. Everything has become about transients and not sustain. It is so odd. When I hear a drum fill sound like someone dropped a box of Tic Tacs I can't help but laugh. Meanwhile, when you see that same band live the Toms sound like thunder in the Grand Canyon. They sound HUGE. Why any producer would want to thin out the sound of a band is beyond me. Your Crash trick could easily be used on Toms as well.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

I do the same thing for Tom’s, kick, snare, and room mics!

@nadler4

2 жыл бұрын

In modern metal everything is so in your face and loud. Lots of times even if the toms resonated you won't be able to actually hear it. But I agree, I'm a metal drummer/engineer and I hate that aesthetic.

💥I use midi and Steven Slate drums (SSD5) and the cymbals often 'die' in the mix = really frustrating! Tried assigning the room and overheads mics to separate tracks, boosting above 1.6khz and compressing them, but add guitars and keyboards and they disappear again. If that happens, I duplicate the midi drums track and use (Cubase) Groove Agent crash and ride cymbal samples, ensuring the pans mimic the SSD5 samples in the stereo spectrum. I also find the SSD5 snares lack the 'bottom mic' (snare rattle), so I blend in another Groove Agent snare to get the sound I'm looking for - and sometimes edit out the initial snare hit, leaving only the snare rattle aftermath. Dr Bob tackles some interesting problems. Cheers from the UK😁🖖

super old school trick ..... noise is also a super old school trick for sustain !

Great tip Bob! I've made a habit of recording single shots of all drums and cymbals on all my drum rec sessions. Saved the day more than once, and only takes a few minutes. A question that you might have answered earlier. I see you're on Cubase, which I believe is not so common for an american producer/engineer. I've been using Nuendo for the past 15 years or so and love it. Just curious to hear why Cubase and not the usual PT setup. Thanks, Andreas

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Hey Andreas. Yes the norm over here is Pro Tools. I started on Nuendo and switched to Cubase, which is almost identical , and have never looked back! I love the navigation of it and I’m super fast at it so have never found a reason to change. More people all the time switching to Cubase here…..

@andreasbauman1132

2 жыл бұрын

@@BobbyHuff Thanks for the reply, couldn't agree more on the benefits of Cubase/Nuendo. Appreciate your videos. Keep'em comin'. All the best!

which drum you use here? i mean , like toontrack or other?

Yep, for me cymbal doubling is mandatory, the only way to have full control.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

AGREEEEED!

Great tip, but could be shown within 5 minutes instead of almost 15 though... 😅

If you saved CLA a lot of time, did you get a discount? I'm seriously curious what rates (price) CLA mixes have these days? I once heard a CLA mix was about $6000 - $8000, was maybe 10 years ago... but a lot has changed since then.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Hahah! No I didn’t get a discount as he deserves every penny he gets. Not comfortable with discussing his rates but I’m sure if you have something to be mixed you could contact him and he would discuss his rates with you. Thanks for watching!

i notice a trend toward the snare almost sounding like a Tom - a thick sound - kind of reminds me of the sterile sound of the chilli peppers drums sound - that seems to lose a lot of the natural crack and snare wire sound ..... .just subjectivity i know, but i dont like it- On the issue of cymbals -i almost think they should be down a lot more in the mix -almost be ambient ....but of course, thats again , just me

Can you fix the overuse of the snare drum in The Outfield's songs?

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha! Sorry I love those !!

@thoughtfulbravado

2 жыл бұрын

Say it isn't so...

Before I watch...my guess is this will be about using a de-eser on the OH buss or channel. Soothe works well. I like to control my own harmonics and such...so de-eser for me. Now let me jump in and see what's going on...one more point, I know it's probably not the best thing in the world to share another YTubers info here on your Doc, but I have to share the knowledge. Check out Andrew Zeleno's video about the CLA Vocal plug in. Very eye opening. I would love to hear some comments from the Doc on the information he shares in that video about the plug in. He also breaks down some of the EQ curves and filters on the SSL channel strips in another video. I think you would really enjoy the info if you don't already know what's going on there. If you do, I think you could bring some extra insight. Some real deep dive stuff. Great video as always!

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Stephen. Always welcome to hear about other channels! I don’t use the CLA vocal channel, although it’s really good, but I use the SSL channel strips on every mix.

Not sure if CLA really has a lot to do with these drums. To me they sound awesome! Especially kick and snare ❤

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Henry! They did turn out pretty good.

Ohs solo: hi hat left side Mix: hi hat right side Your Welcome

🔥

Great

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Rick!

Weird Al: "Like a surgeon"... :)

I guess CLA would have thanked me 15 years ago.....

Don't surgeons traditionally go by "Mr" instead of "Dr"?

I always grab isolated hits of each drum at the beginning of a session to use as samples if anything like this would arise.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! Great idea. In this particular case I should’ve had him choose different crashes to begin with. They were too pretty.

You culd also just close mic the cymbals

One thing worth saying: by using this method you loose some of the original dynamics and liveliness of the performance. It is easy to over do. Especially if you add samples to every snare and tom hit. So just aware of the dynamics you actually need to keep the performance alive:)

I thought the first crash was fine the second was clearly maxed out at impact ...either way I never would have thought of this idea.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

It does sound good but didn’t cut through a wall of vocals and guitars.

You could ask your drummer to play without hitting crash cymbals, and add them after the fact on a extra tracks. Also, let the drummer play his individual cymbals in different velocities at the end of the session, this way you'll have perfect samples of the cymbals that were used. You could even go es far as tracking another set of cymbals in addition to the first set.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

All good! I have done all of those and they all work great!

@compucat

2 жыл бұрын

Sure, but that starts pushing the line between “capturing a performance” and “manufacturing a performance.” Totally acceptable in some contexts, completely gauche in others.

The cord on headphones is always on the left.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

I actually didn’t know that!!!

Isn’t this kinda the opposit of the more common problem of the drummer hitting the cymbals(hi hat) too hard and you end up using samples on the snare and bassdrum to compensate and get some control?

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly

There's an easier an often times more accurate way to do this. I use studio one but this is possible in all DAWs. Find out how to detect transients in your DAW and drag that into a midi track, then delete the non cymbal hits and map cymbal hits to midi drum software.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

I use this method for snare, kick, and toms, but overheads are too vague to find the cymbal transients and I end up chasing other transients. Maybe your DAW is better with the overheads!

@brendanmccurry428

2 жыл бұрын

@@BobbyHuff I discovered it because I had some live material to mix but there was no overheads. There was however mic on the hi hat

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

@@brendanmccurry428 Hahaha! Nice...

i’ve been doing this for a little while on splashes and rides mostly! i work with heavy music, and it can be hard to cut through guitars...

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

I totally agree Fred!!!

Could you not just copy the over head track to a new track and use it to supplement where you need instead of using samples?

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Yes but...The overhead track would still have drums on it so I wouldn't have TOTAL control over the cymbals.

@upbeatgroove

2 жыл бұрын

@@BobbyHuff Gotcha that makes sense. Thanks for the reply.

@upbeatgroove

2 жыл бұрын

Just curious what about if crash is too loud? Just ride it down with automation? Thanks again.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

@@upbeatgroove yes rise them down or try eq or deessing.

Whats up with the smack of the top snare mic though? Tough to bring life to that!

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Not sure what u mean?

@rodrigodeltoro7220

2 жыл бұрын

@@BobbyHuff Sounds to me snare is super compressed..that distressor super smack that it will be tough to bring some life back to it ;)

As soon as you said "beautiful, like Paiste" you got my thumbs up 👍.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Love that!

Bobby Porcaro?

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Hahahaha!!!

And we get this CLA-level insight for … let’s see … FREE? 😍

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Haha! Thanks for being here!

Why not just spot mic your cymbals?

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Good answer but it doesn't always work out in super dense mixes with lots of heavy guitars.

Chris Lord fish food? It’s Alge not algae.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

Good catch...fixed!

The chance that "this" actually happened is zero and none. Good effort at creating content. In the future just say that "this is how you mix cymbals" and leave out all the fake nonsense.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

This happens all the time in the world of dense mixes Ben. Also if you are questioning the truth of the CLA story just look up my credits and you’ll see that we have worked together numerous times…You are quite misinformed my friend and sadly negative....What would be your answer to this cymbal problem?

@ChristopherHero

2 жыл бұрын

@@BobbyHuff Thanks for posting these helpful vids, Bobby! Can't make everyone happy :D

@THEESHITSHOW

2 жыл бұрын

ben, you obviously don’t mix music. this kind of scenario happens all the time with projects i’m working. perhaps you never have recorded nor mixed a real drum kit.

@benburnett8109

2 жыл бұрын

@@THEESHITSHOW I've mixed 4 complete songs in Reaper. I can also play most Metallica songs with the solos. So I know what I'm talking about.

@BobbyHuff

2 жыл бұрын

@@benburnett8109 OK cool man. Disappointed that you would say my video is not accurate AND make claims that this incident never happened. Other than that thanks for watching and try this simple technique sometime it really works.