It's worth noting that the "Omegon" Guilliman killed was likely not the real Primarch Omegon, since Guilliman noted doing so with extreme ease. I think it's both a more interesting narrative and way funnier for one of the twins to still be alive.

@hazel5092

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, I mean did you ever take a look at the alpha legion? The more you think about it the more sense it would make if that was not Omegon

@leovalenzuela8368

9 ай бұрын

Bro, it’s the Alpha Legion. Of course that wasn’t the real Omegon. Even if it were, it still wouldn’t be him.

@Ahriman_362

9 ай бұрын

I mean can you be really sure that alpharius was killed? Nobody can know for sure To me, both of them are still alive ine loyal, the other traitor. The alpha and the omega

@pedrokantor7972

9 ай бұрын

​​@@Ahriman_362Alpharius is totally dead, but we can discuss about Omegon

@Ahriman_362

9 ай бұрын

@@pedrokantor7972 but how do we know? Alpharius and omegon were almost legionary size and their legionaries look nearly identical

The first drafts of 40k lore were wild. The Space Marines used to be a kind of penalty legion made from hardened criminals forever welded into their armour until they either die or served their sentence. If this sounds familiar, the concept was discarded by GW and soon reused by Starcraft after a GW storywriter went to work for Blizzard.

@zaer-ezart

9 ай бұрын

Well they kept that concept somewhat for the edge lords

@no-nonseplayer6612

9 ай бұрын

Fun fact Starcraft Marines are better than Adeptus Astartes :D

@unnamed1613

9 ай бұрын

@@no-nonseplayer6612 Debatable. I´d say it depends on the situation. Starcraft Marines have more than enough firpower to kill an armored Astartes and have a huge advantage in numbers, but in a fight with more or less equal numbers, they would still have a very hard time due to being "just" human and having the inferior armor compared to the current Mk. X or even the post-heresy Mk.III armor patterns of the Astartes

@MD-yd8lh

9 ай бұрын

​@@no-nonseplayer6612 *yawns*

@MD-yd8lh

8 ай бұрын

@@aaronlaughter6471 ? Sc fans are better?

I like the idea that Omegon is waiting to show up on the Loyalist side as a renegade to tip the scales

@Hewberman

9 ай бұрын

me too

@jovpal5685

9 ай бұрын

Imagine one of the lost primarchs then comeback into existence

@logandelaharpe6362

9 ай бұрын

Sorry guys got lost what been going on ………… oh my not god

@user-nm6dx5bx5r

9 ай бұрын

I feel like omegon and the emperor of man had a secret plan for this

@LiarFire1

8 ай бұрын

The main reason the Alpha Legion joined the Traitors was because of the prophecy the Cabal. The death of the emperor would lead to the death of Chaos. But the prophecy was proved wrong at the very end when the emperor was mortally wounded instead.

I’m still waiting for the real Alpharius to show after 11K year and be like: ”Hey guys! Sorry I’m late, I’ve been busy with some stuff Father told me to do. So… What’s going on?”

@SaintIgnatious

7 ай бұрын

Best Alpharius story arc 10/10

@t-1156

24 күн бұрын

Narrator's voice: This is a lie. Alpharius was busy writing WH40K AO3 crossover fanfics. This, too, is a lie.

I have always considered Horus the only truly dead primarc as his was the only one who’s soul was obliterated

@Coproquim

9 ай бұрын

Even Horus wasn't permakilled. Fabius bile cloned him

@rankcolour8780

9 ай бұрын

@@Coproquim The clone was just a cloned body it didn't Horus super special warp sauce soul and was weak.

@creolekolbytv1252

9 ай бұрын

Fun fact didn’t the chaos gods hold on to shreds of Horus’ soul?

@rankcolour8780

9 ай бұрын

​@@creolekolbytv1252 Don't think so , the latter HH novels have horus with his full soul, or so he himself claims, about to fight the Emperor and the Emperor obliterating him so hard the Gods fled.

@thatlonewolfguy2878

9 ай бұрын

​@@Coproquim stop coping. Just cause he's dead doesn't mean you can't make a clone of him, Abaddon and every other living Son of Horus-turned-Black Legionary have Horus' gene-markers which is enough for Fabius Bile to create a clone of him. Horus is beyond dead, both his body and soul were obliterated

A small bit of clarification, the primarchs were not "sworn to secrecy" about the two missing primarchs, Guilliman and Dorn, in a rare moment in which they agreed on something, had Malcador psychically scour their minds of the names of their brothers, and made them physically unable to speak of them, that's why the traitors also don't speak of them beyond vague mentions, anything else they simply cannot do. Malcador briefly returns Dorn's memory, and once Dorn remember, he has Malcador scour his mind again, convinced he and Bobby made the right choice.

@jaredwilliams2357

9 ай бұрын

Granted Lorgar and Magnus at least appear to still have their memories from Magnus’s line when they were talking during the crusade after Lorgar referenced them, “We took an oath to our father never to speak of this, are you planning on breaking it?” (Paraphrase) My ASSUMPTION is that Dorn and Guiliman went out of their way to ask Malcador to wipe the memories from their minds because it was particularly sad for them for whatever reason and this wasn’t something Malcador came up with on his own to push on the remaining primarchs because if it was a mind wipe of all primarchs, how were both Lorgar and Magnus able to remember that they existed at least. What’s even weirder is that Guiliman has the table on Macragge with 21 seats for each of his brothers and the emperor and when someone asks about the two blank seats says “you know they aren’t coming back” and he says “yet a place must be marked. That is simply honor” again paraphrase and I’m sorry I don’t have a source but if someone is more knowledgeable feel free to add or correct.

@zaer-ezart

9 ай бұрын

I believe there's a story where a primarch is furious that Malcador erased his memories. When asked Malcador simply replies that it was himself that asked him to erase his memory. The primarch goes "Nah fam you restore those memories right now" Malcador obliges and after like 30 seconds the primarch goes "Yeah you were right delete that shit again" So whatever those 2 primarch did must have been so horrible that even their brothers doesn't want to remember it

@DaniMol

9 ай бұрын

@@zaer-ezart Yes, that was Dorn like I said

@zaer-ezart

9 ай бұрын

@@DaniMol We all know why 2 of the chapters are lost from a business point of view. But let's focus solely on the lore. What could they have done of SO horrible, of so unbelievably inhuman that their weren't even punished or killed but alt F4ed out of existence by the emperor?

@SportyMabamba

9 ай бұрын

@@zaer-ezartI’ve always thought we lost 1 (possibly both) of the unknown primarchs during or as a result of The Rangdan Xenocide

I believe Rogal Dorn is still alive, but...disarmed at the moment. He probably needs a hand.

@JKRavenBlood

9 ай бұрын

He could use one of his late brother and become one who talks with his silvery new hand

@Sir_Tomoyuki

9 ай бұрын

@@JKRavenBlood That will be a handful.

@marcingolab6227

9 ай бұрын

Afaik primarchs can regrow entire limbs within hours, if he's alive he's gonna be fine somehow

@Sir_Tomoyuki

9 ай бұрын

@@marcingolab6227 Huh? Daemon Primarchs can, but not the Loyalist ones. That's why Ferrus Manus replaced his hands with bionics after he lost them.

@toomaskotkas4467

9 ай бұрын

Ba dum tss!

I would consider Corax to be active since we do for certain he’s active in the warp hunting his traitorous brethren. For all we know, Lorgar isn’t doing much because he’s terrified of mobilizing only to be ambushed by angry shadows. I think it is possible that Sanguinius could make a return one day since we now know his body is in stasis.

@elonwhatever

9 ай бұрын

Well we do have a kind of active Sanguinius in the form of the Sanguinor.

@joshuasmith5472

9 ай бұрын

​@elonwhatever also it's said that sanguinius is speaking to some high ranked blood angels through the warp. His soul is still alive.

@user-tg1tz8pu3s

9 күн бұрын

corax be vibing to doom music while slaughtering legions of daemons and heretics

@stickiedmin6508

8 күн бұрын

​@@user-tg1tz8pu3s "Rip and tear? Rip and tear their guts?" 😃

I'd have put Vulkan in the lazy category. As far as we know, there's no good reason why he can't just show up again

@ArantyrDarkhand

9 ай бұрын

Vulkan simple cannot die. Hes probably stuck somewhere in the universe after the end of the war when he "kinda" sacrifice hinself.

@zaer-ezart

9 ай бұрын

He's actually very much alive. He's just chilling in that very dark corner of the room

@objectsupr9970

9 ай бұрын

Konrad Curze face him PTSD

@no-nonseplayer6612

9 ай бұрын

@@ArantyrDarkhand untue he can die it tkase shit loads of deaths but he can actually die permanently

@ArantyrDarkhand

9 ай бұрын

@@no-nonseplayer6612Theres only 2 things that kill perpetuals. Its the emperor and weapons made with Fulgrite.

It gets even messier when you consider that Sanguinius' body vanished from its tomb, and M''Shen's log of her confrontation with Curze is missing the actual killing and HIS body's whereabouts are unknown. The only one I think is for sure dead is Ferrus and still waiting for some way for that to be reversed.

@xuxu2020

Ай бұрын

Probably comanding the leagion of the dammed

@jurekovacic1739

24 күн бұрын

​@@xuxu2020honestly, rhat would be the best way to do it. Rather than going "nu-uh", make him stay dead, but return him as headless commander of the legion of the damned.

I very much appreciate your treatment of Lorgar in this video. He has become such a meme character that sometimes trying to have a serious discussion about the character is hard. IMO one of the pivotal characters of the universe playing the power behind the chaos throne before overstepping and trying to take the reigns of the Heresy himself. He is chaos Guiliman, the organizer, not the war leader. The long range planner, not the "in the breach" leader. A role that will never be filled because chaos is going to chaos.

@lvo9197

9 ай бұрын

The problem is that the lore itself seems to treat him that way too. Lorgar could easily had been the most interesting of the traitor primarchs, an ideologically driven rebel against the emperor who sees in the chaos gods the only alternative to the nightmare of the Imperium, but time and time again, the story frames him as this scorned so who is salty about his daddy issues, manipulated by Kor Phaeron, outstaged by Horus, and defeated by every opponent he faces in the most annoying way possible.

@JoshuaKevinPerry

9 ай бұрын

Borgar fans never cease to amaze. Yes, he would be better if written better, he is not.

@AdamMichalMarkowski

9 ай бұрын

Chaos Guilliman, ey? Never looked at it from this angle, but it sure is an interesting one... even more reason to replace Failbaddon, who has no business leading Chaos forces now, that loyalists Primarch are walking again.

@dukedevlan5457

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, he is one of the main architects of the heresy with his legion size and strategy for corrupting the others yeah he is the chaos guilliman

@doublep1980

9 ай бұрын

''Chaos Guiliman'', lol. Please, do not insult Papa Smurf. He's actually competent in what he does, has common sense and when he decides to get his hands dirty, he's a force to be reckoned with ( read ''Know no Fear''). Lorgar is an absolute joke. He became Chaos' little b*tchboy, because daddy dind't allow him to worship him, tried to stage a coup against Horus during the Heresy and got his arse whooped. Corax moped the floor with him, during the Dropsite Massacre and then again, after he had become a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided, Corax made him run like a little b*tch. He tried again, to gain leadership of the Chaos Marines and was again put in his place by Abbadon, who's not even a Primarch!

Alpharius should have been in every category given their dubious loyalist/heretic allegiances

@emzetkin1100

9 ай бұрын

Alpharius playing hopscotch with this entire tierlist

@zaer-ezart

9 ай бұрын

-My primarch... I must ask, are we loyalist or heretics? -Wait, I thought you were alpharius -Fuck

@QuantemDeconstructor

8 ай бұрын

Allegedly Alpharius is both extremely busy and dead as dinner, what a guy

1.Lion - Back and kicking ass 2. *REDACTED* 3.Fulgrim - Sexy Demon 4. Perturabo - Boring Demon 5. Khan - Lost in Webway 6. Russ - Lost in Warp 7. Dorn - “dead” but come on 8.Konrad - Death by assassin waifu 9.Sanguinius - Death by Daddy Issues the man 10. Manus - Death by penis blade 11. *REDACTED* 12. Angron - Angry Demon 13. Guilliman - Leading the Imperium 14.Mortarion - Smelly Demon 15. Magnus - Extra Magical Demon 16.Horus- Gone, reduced to even less than atoms 17.Lorgar - Demon Nerd 18. Vulcan - “dead” but also immortal 19. Corvis - Shadowy Warp Thing 20. Alpharius - Dead…right? 21. Omegon - Fuck if I know

@angelofthedeath2433

7 ай бұрын

Russ is probably rescuing Isha. Thinking she's the tree of life

@mohdshahariar5833

16 күн бұрын

@@angelofthedeath2433 Had a fanfic in my mind of Russ and Isha falling in love. horrifying shit

It's ok I've found one of the lost Primarchs...he was behind the sofa cushions with some loose change and stale cashews.

Arbiter Ian I just want to say thank you for doing this channel, I'm a big fan of your work! Cheers mate!

It's important to note that Vulcan is a perpetual, meaning unless killed by special means, he doesn't really stay dead forever. I believe Sanguinious was also supposed to be a perpetual but I'm not certain about that. But at the least, Vulcan belongs in the lost/lazy middle ground area.

@brooklynkeith2877

9 ай бұрын

Unfortunately Vulcan was killed by an athathme spear hes fully dead.

@Draidis

9 ай бұрын

@@brooklynkeith2877 Source? I can't find anything on this.

@no-nonseplayer6612

9 ай бұрын

@@brooklynkeith2877 no athahthme spear cant fully kill perpetual so hes alive but perpetuals takes always longer to come back live because they need to climp over every death and thats douple for Vulkan

@Sentralkontrol

9 ай бұрын

@@brooklynkeith2877vulkan survives that

@igozi5728

9 ай бұрын

I'm new in 40K, so how does perpetual comes back alive in practically? Does he born again or what?

Corvus is just vibing in the Eye spooking heretics. I have a small feeling he may come back for the loyalists next due to the updated models for the Ravenguard

@emzetkin1100

9 ай бұрын

When he's done beating up Lorgar, he'll probably help out his sons.

@APC117

9 ай бұрын

Not a Space Marine Fan at all but Corvus and Lorgar are 2 of my favorite Primarchs in the setting. Would be over the moon to read about them continuing their feud. Also the aspect of Warp Infused/Daemon Corax intrigues me greatly.

@zaer-ezart

9 ай бұрын

He's a demon now, but a loyalist one. Either that or that prolonged journey in the warp unlocked some special power in him

@painovoimaton

8 ай бұрын

​@@zaer-ezartI don't quite think it is possible to be a loyalist daemon. As I understand it, daemonhood can only be attained by one who has fallen to chaos, and being a loyalist and falling to chaos are mutually exclusive.

@wstanczyk5643

4 ай бұрын

@@zaer-ezartI think it was heavily implied that all primarchs are beings of warp. So I would guess what we saw was the „unleashed” Corax

I want Dorn to come back and get a decent story for the Imperial Fist, I'm tired of them going the way of Lieutenant Worf

@brooklynkeith2877

9 ай бұрын

Bro i think Dorn will get the Emperors Power Claw

@peekabbu83

9 ай бұрын

@@brooklynkeith2877im with you on this

@shorelessskies

9 ай бұрын

...like Dorn is on Deep Space 9?

@TheIronFourth

5 ай бұрын

Leave Dorn where he belongs. Deep sixed. Iron within, Iron without! I half expect Chapter Master Valerk to show up and spout his allegiances 😂

Who will return next? My money is on Fulgrim, complete with a contentious 10th edition codex for the Emperor's Children.

@John_Curtin

9 ай бұрын

Considering the recent reveal of Fulgrim's new heresy model it makes me think we might be waiting a few years before he hits the 41st millennium, and maybe a loyalist will be back first?

@rosspalmer5171

9 ай бұрын

​@@John_Curtinmy money's on Russ

@ger5956

9 ай бұрын

I cannot wait for an Emperors Children release, my bank account on the other hand… 😅

@stephanhecht3913

9 ай бұрын

Valrak who usually has good leaks/rumor sources says fulgrim is coming this edition russ either at the end of edition or start of next.

@simonbirch5726

9 ай бұрын

@@John_Curtinnah if anything the 30k release increases the chances of soon 40 k fulgrims return. Not to mention all the EC rumours about a range refresh.

In "The Devastation of Baal" I think a telling amount of attention and focus is placed on explaining and then repeatedly bringing up the fact that the Blood Angels have a pure drop of blood of Sanguinius held in stasis from the moment of his death. It could be a red herring, but I think it's a Chekhov's Gun, holding open the door for Cawl to maybe work some more of his genecrafting magic 👀

@spikeychris

6 ай бұрын

More interesting book point for Cawl is that he has Primaris Marines for all 20 legions and Guilliman will only let him activate loyal ones. So Primaris Marines for the 2 lost legions exist (or it got past the proof readers).

@4L3X4ND3R19K

4 ай бұрын

they re going to drop the drop on sanguiny's body to regen and tada he comes back to banish and close the rift.yellow boy gets daddies claws and goes nuts in a terminator armour in some cool battles. Ultra boy gets his wings slapped off the back pack and goes and organises daddies new library whilst the green dragon, wolf boy and raven guard come back from the shadow. Alpha boy shows of a chameleon paint job off and says sorry bros i secretly always helping dad. 5 millennia or maybe 10 they push back the bad guys and close the rift. no one is dead everyone gets glory and then they lead everyone through a unification crusade. Daddy finally dies with a sad look back at 6 of his sons gone but the remaining 14 pulling together working out their problems maybe even use 2 and 11 to slap em back into shape

@Cordovan

4 ай бұрын

@@4L3X4ND3R19K all in all still better narrative than dropping some kind of chaos emperor :l

I know it's unlikely for a good while but I really want Lorgar to come back so 40k-onlys get a more nuanced view than "whingy cult leader who got bitched on and left" like all the memes reduce him down to. The Guilliman/Corax vs. Lorgar beef would be legendary. He really has a ton of depth with the emperor betraying him and pushing him directly into Erebus' arms, his relationships with the other primarchs whose legionaries turned traitor due to the lodges being filled with Lorgar's priests, and the chaos infighting there would be with Angron since Lorgar was the one who turned him into a demon when he tried to save him from the nails.

@mrsniffles5417

9 ай бұрын

Lorgar has the most interesting journey of the bunch, until the end of the heresy when he just dips and his story line was abandoned. He really needs more lore love.

@z-mkgaming7464

9 ай бұрын

I also really wanna know his thoughts on the modern Imperium

@ArantyrDarkhand

9 ай бұрын

He is... the story about him and Corvus its in the 40k. HE just left exile. Now we have to see wth hes goin to do.

@ahoyturtle

9 ай бұрын

@@z-mkgaming7464 Actually, Lorgar sees a vision of the current (current-ish?) Imperium in "Aurelian". But by that point he's well on his journey into Heresy. He finds the notion of an Imperium worshipping the Emperor amusing, but since it's not worship of the Primordial Powers (and thus, doesn't much help the Soul once it enters the Immaterium), he sees it as unimportant.

@lostsanityreturned

9 ай бұрын

I wager sanguineous will return at some point... gw want that coin

So Chagatai was last seen 10 000 years ago being taken into the webway by the Drukhari? So many possibilties for horrors and survival and different horrors and being forever changed - but then being healed by Ynnead before losing all his memories and being encountered by a White Scars successor chapter in a battle when they end up fighting Chaos alongside the Ynnari.

@yaelz6043

9 ай бұрын

Congratulations, you put more thought into that than all eldar writers put together.

@no-nonseplayer6612

9 ай бұрын

wasnt he recorded chasing Drukhari to webway ?

@GustavSvard

9 ай бұрын

@@no-nonseplayer6612 True! my bad! But the rest of my idea still holds up, I'd say.

@lukhinio3200

9 ай бұрын

Remember that time in the chaos rift works different. He might spend there like 10, 50, 100 years fighting where in real world passed 10,000

@yaelz6043

9 ай бұрын

@@lukhinio3200 except that he was in the webway where time is fine. And he was chasing drukhari who don't use warp shenanigans.

After reading The First Heretic and Betrayer I actually don't get why Lorgar became such a meme. He is on of the best written and interesting Primarchs next to Perturabo

@joesheridan9451

9 ай бұрын

Totally agree and yet somehow stuck up, boring cunts like lion and Russ are more popular 😴

@thatlonewolfguy2878

9 ай бұрын

It's because after that he ran back to the Warp and Corax came after him and Lorgar knew he couldn't beat him after getting his ass handed to him over and over again

@discipleofdagon8195

9 ай бұрын

@@thatlonewolfguy2878 you're forgetting Lorgar is the guy who had daemon fulgrim in captivity and had the ability to enslave him. He had his moments

@jeffreymonsell659

8 ай бұрын

He also defeated a named Bloodthirster in the Warp.

@NeloBladeOfRanni

3 ай бұрын

​@@discipleofdagon8195he also defeated Khornes best blood thirster. It's funny how Corax simps want to mock Lorgar yet they forget their precious Corax ran like a little biatch from Kurze

I always imagine Fulgrim looking so much more disturbing than he appears in official art, more like a quasi-reptilian Cenobite from Hellraiser.

There were 4 playable, with their own models, demon primarchs for Epic, in the late 90's.

@luketfer

9 ай бұрын

Yup. Judging by the 'one demon primarch and one loyalist primarch per new edition' that GW seem to go with and the Horus Heresy demon Fulgrim model coming out, I highly suspect 10th is going to bring in Fulgrim and a Codex: Emperor's Children (since they're the last remaining 'faction' that doesn't have a codex) and then we'll have a complete 41st/42nd millenium update for all of the old Epic daemon primarches.

Picked up my first Warhammer 40K audiobook thanks to your videos Ian. I don't ever think I'll get into the game itself, but you do such a fantastic job of explaining the lore, I figured I'd give it a shot. (I opted to start with Shadowsun: The Patient Hunter, FYI)

@painovoimaton

8 ай бұрын

Being a lore fan is valid

Love a bit of clonegrim, when i see some fan art of the loyalist primarchs i always kind of want clonegrim to appear there. One on each side seems very chaos.

Bile: hey guys i cloned Sanguinious! Literally all of chaos: why the fuck would you do that? Bile: *shrugs* kinda just my thing.

@thehighwayman3122

Ай бұрын

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Fabulous Bill made clones of all the Dead Primarchs for shits and giggles.

@jurekovacic1739

24 күн бұрын

​@@thehighwayman3122well aslo to prove thst he can. He had a convo with Tryzin and tryzin really vounded his pride😂. There is also the fact that he may be employed at some point by the metal skely creeps to give them their bodies back. Sadly, he can't do much about the soul thing.

5:43 slight correction, we don’t know Fulgrim was Banished, he fled his encounter with Dorn but is still at the siege by the time of the most recent book, off somewhere turning people into drugs and being unhelpful to Horus and such. My guess is that he’ll be the only traitor primarch to survive the siege to its end, and then flee at its conclusion; or perhaps he’ll be killed by Dorn finishing the job. That would be the most fitting option I think.

@beannguyenkhac4332

9 ай бұрын

You're telling me the horus books are still not complete?

@digitaldiamond1928

9 ай бұрын

Nope 2 left in the siege. And another slight correction because the Fury of Magnus book has Magnus become a daemon during the siege in a the first of two fights against Vulcan, and then is instantly banished due to the emperors wards.

@Lord_Inquisitor7

9 ай бұрын

@@beannguyenkhac4332 the siege series is about 2 books away from being over, when it ends the heresy will be over

@Lord_Inquisitor7

9 ай бұрын

@@digitaldiamond1928 there’s 2 left presently, Horus and Fulgrim, but we know Horus will die, so Fulgrim is the only one with a chance to survive it(who also stayed to the end of it, so excluding Perturabo)

@beannguyenkhac4332

9 ай бұрын

Wait is this part of the primarchs series or siege of terra

I always preferred them as myths to characters. The whole hersey felt very much like the final part of Arthurian myth where the glorius kingdom destroyed in civil war, great heroes and brothes on arms fight each other and it all ends with then king and his son in a final confrontation killing each other. I was never interested in having it all spelt out in detail becaue it was a half lost hiatory of the end if a golden age. When you define characters in vague mythic terms some of the fans always want the truth and the details and who could beat who in a fight. The books and the models sell so of course we get everything in painstaking detail now. Some of stuff is even good but I don't think it actually makes the setting better to spell everything out.

@serronserron1320

9 ай бұрын

I'd rather know the color of Ferris Madness is underwear and what angron thinks of cheese.

@FlameForgedSoul

9 ай бұрын

Yes but a new/growing fan base and thus _money_ so keep all this storytelling nonsense to yourself.

@gawkthimm6030

9 ай бұрын

as someone who has only been into Warhammer 40k for less than 8 years I deliberately started with only reading None- Horus Heresy books, wanting to get into the "modern setting" which sounded much more interesting to me than 30k. The Primarchs overarching/overshadowing presence one of the reasons.

Im new to warhammer 40k and have watched this video probably 20 times. Its helped me alot into my hours of lore research 😂

Great recap of the who's, where's and what's up with Primarchs! We already got this in each legion video, but these guys all in one place makes it easier to remember.

To return Sanguinius, you need to kill all his sons, since they contain fragments of his soul, but he is against this and would be a revived super sad angel whose children all died. Maybe GW'll give us a primarch-sized sanguinor model, for example? 🤔🤔

Magnus has hinted that he knows where Russ is. Recent fluff points to Russ being the next loyalist primarch to come back.

Aww how this channel has slowly become my goto for all horus heresy lore, thank you for this Mr. Ian!

“I punched out one of his hearts why does no one remember that!?” -Magus the Red

A lot of the Primarch's 'i will return' legends reminds me a lot of the real life legend of Holger Danske, a mythical warrior of old, sworn to return from his rest if the country is ever in danger

My favorite lore channel. Thanks for all you do, m8.

Great summary! Im getting into the books and the 18 different primarchs can spin my head from chapter to chapter. This helps a lot!

I am complete new Warhammer. The lore absolutely fascinates me. You're videos are concise and really well made. The start of my 40k journey had been aided in part to your videos. Thanks for the help

I really kind of hope GW puts out a box set of Daemon Corvus Corax vs Daemon prince Logar. If they do fulgrim in 10th like everybody thinks they will, thats probably the best move for 11th. Vulkan Vs Peterabo would also be pretty sweet. OR just an arc where Trazyn's menagerie gets fully fucked and it turns out he has Jahgatai, Dorn, or Alpharius in there, I don't even need models on those 3, just closure.

Unkillable! What an awesome video! I missed you guys! Welcome back and cant wait for more 10th edition battle reports!

You probably should have mentioned Vulcan is a perpetual who literally cannot stay dead, thus why he's in the lost category despite being witnessed dying at the end of the war of the beast

Really great, these summaries help to keep the situation organized in my rapidly deteriorating cranium.

I think as it's more popular than unpopular, and that it makes gw alot of money, I think more primarchs will be back and that the groundwork is being laid, I'd personally like to see more come back

@no-nonseplayer6612

9 ай бұрын

there shoul be back 2-3 Primarchs pack next year and maybe big e himself

@jeremybott4899

9 ай бұрын

While I'm not sure 40k nerds wanna see the "death of 40k" like Warhammer fantasy did, the lore is so deep and convoluted now that return of primarchs or even big E seems inevitable

@melindaphantom9450

9 ай бұрын

@@jeremybott4899 I don't think they are going to make the same mistake twice and end 40k, especially as it is not only GWs biggest game but probably the most popular wargame out there, and yeah Primarchs returning makes the lore more convoluted buy when has 40k ever been an easy coherent timeline

@jeremybott4899

9 ай бұрын

@@melindaphantom9450 but that speaks to the problem of the return of primarchs. So many have said "I'll return at the end times", and now they're coming back. Seems to box the 40k lore in a bit. I mean I get it, 40k lore has crawled for so many years, and now it's speeding up. Like you said, it's really hitting it's top speed in the culture. I mean there's going to be a Amazon show. I just don't wanna be able to predict what's going to happen, cause for 30 years I haven't been able to.

I find it odd that people think the Primarchs that are just sort of generic leaders rather than leaders of entire factions will come back. I thought it would be obvious to everyone by now that the Emperor’s Children and Fulgrim will be long before any of the others come back.

@jkee9760

9 ай бұрын

I beg to differ. Ferris Manus is ahead of him

@GoldenKaos

9 ай бұрын

It's not a coincidence that the four most active Traitor Primarchs are the chosen primarchs of the four Chaos Gods

@Slyslug

9 ай бұрын

If you kept up with lore you'd knowthat even the dead primarchs are being set up to come back. Even the emperor to an extent. Also no primarchs are generic leaders, they all lead their legions.

@saucemandela

9 ай бұрын

@@SlyslugI don’t think GW is actually going to bring back any of the “super dead” primarchs (Ferrus, Horus, Sanguinius). However, as always they leave breadcrumbs in the novels as a way to set up this contingency plan in case the lore gets stale so you never know.

@Slyslug

9 ай бұрын

@@saucemandela oh sorry also ferrus is heavily hinted at being the leader of the legion of the damned (the emperor possessed his body with a flaming head during the hours heresy and we know that primarch spirits live on long after body death)

Your video introducing Warhammer 40K lore for beginners is one of the main things that got me into 40K. This one was a treat to come across.

cant be the only one who rewatch these long format videos... i love it

Primarch: Rogal Dorn. Location: My Heart

I wish dorn would come back after being successfully tempted by Khorn like they began hinting at in End and the Death 1

Fulgrim wasnt banished to the Warp during the Siege of Terra. He literally just got petulant and left due to boredom

Great work arbiter. You keep everything you do interesting. Thanks

I love my loyalist, I do. But Lorgar deserves more love. But on the Loyalist side, RG is my guy. I’m reading Dark Imperium and I really like him!

@benny.boy8889

9 ай бұрын

Matthews a pain 😁

@THCthehempcloud

9 ай бұрын

@@benny.boy8889 Matthew?

Yes! This is a question I've been wanting answered for so long 😀

I want to thank you again Ian for having the best GW channel out there, you create fantastic content and deliver it like you’re having a normal conversation - not overly dramatic, without being unnecessarily edgy or badly attempting to be funny, and not like a toddler that’s just had 6 bags of Skittles. So hard to find content that isn’t at least one of those.

this video was awesome, so perfectly explained with the definitively-not-tierlist

I love your vids! my only criticism is Fulgrim should be in the Lazy section for "now" 😄

@bigbill639

9 ай бұрын

He hasn't left his pleasure planet since he cut Gullimen's throat. Seems lazy to me.

@apossiblyhereticalalphaleg3595

9 ай бұрын

@@bigbill639 To be fair he probably spends a lot of energy on all the drugs and shit he's doing there.

Hi Ian, there's at least one of the dead primarchs who should have an asterisk next to them. Sanguinius is dead but can still communicate with his sons. Dante has spoken to him, unless that was retconned later...

@jkee9760

9 ай бұрын

"Father can I die and rest?" "Lol..LOL...LMFAOOOO...no"

@hpph7133

9 ай бұрын

Are you sure it wasn't a bad trip from eating weird mushrooms?

@emzetkin1100

9 ай бұрын

IIRC, that one bit was a warp-ghost of Sang, but maybe not the Angel's real soul?

@joesheridan9451

9 ай бұрын

If they ever bring sanguinius back I lose all faith and interest in the setting

@thedeathknightegris7287

7 ай бұрын

theres this one time Dantes goes hes tired and wants to die but he heres sangunius voice that tells him he cant die just yet@@hpph7133

Very interesting seeing at layed out like that. Thanks Ian

Great job brother... Thank you your time and effort !!

Wait, I don't remember Chlonegrim ever showing signs of "turning" the same way Fulgrim prime did, and that certainly wasn't the reason why he was traded to Trazyn, was it?

@jetblackangelX

9 ай бұрын

Fabius Bile began to fear the clone would subjugate him, unable to kill him, Bile traded him to Tranzyn

@Derenyx

9 ай бұрын

Bile was increasingly distrustful of the clone, mostly it seems due to his own personal biases against Fulgrim. Most of the book seems to be him convincing himself that the clone cannot be perfect and it's doomed to fall like Fulgrim was. So we don't have an objective yes/no on if Clonegrim going to fall, only the perspective of a person who was actively looking for that to be true.

@JohnnyFiction

9 ай бұрын

@@jetblackangelX exactly. The way the video made it sound, Clonegrim was slowly falling to chaos

Let's be honest though: with Sanguinius being the obvious Christ analogue of 40K, they could come up with a completely out of pocket reason why he could resurrect and come back once more. It would be VERY thematic.

@patrickking3124

9 ай бұрын

Something something sanguinor.

@ohamatchhams

9 ай бұрын

@@patrickking3124 Isn't Mephiston supposed to be the "angel of darkness" side of Sanguinius soul to reflecting Sanguinor's counterpart?

@steffenhenriksen6530

9 ай бұрын

Well, the sanguinor, is quite active in the Dante books, and Dante has a vision of sanguinius saving him from death in the end of book 2. And yes the sanguinor and mephiston might just be the light and dark side of sanguinius. Others say his spirit is lingering on abbadons flagship.

@peekabbu83

9 ай бұрын

@@steffenhenriksen6530 I remember this as well the crystal form containing his soul on the vengeful spirit

@MxMe-su1ch

9 ай бұрын

​@ohamatchhams with all the Warp fuckery going on, Sanguinor could be a reincarnated Sanguinius. Which would explain why the latter grew wings and can soothe Sanguinius's Black Rage.

Thank you. I've wondered about Khan. Only looking at stuff at random, I never saw whether he was a traitor or not. Now I have.

years ago i made a funny little tier list of how dead all the primarchs were. this video makes me wish i posted it! great video.

@Arbitor Ian have you included the lore from the first founding book. There's new stuff about primarchs in there

Alpharius lives (probably). Alpharius and Omegon swapped names. Dorne killed Omegon (calling himself Alpharius). Once Omegon (Alpharius) found out that Omegon died, he decided to change his name back to Alpharius, in honor of Alpharius (Omegon). And the Omegon that died to Guilliman was most likely some regular Alpha Legionaire. The main reason most people think that Omegon was killed by Dorne, was due to how Dorne could sense his presence. Alpharius was taught by the Sigilite on how to mask his presence and a bunch of other sneaky shit, to the point where Alpharius was actively in the presence of his brothers and them not having a clue. Then again, this could all just be a lie started by Alpharius, sneaky little goofball.

This is actually a great recap. Thank you.

Now I want a video series in the style of VHS’s “Where Are They Now” show.

Corax leaving with "nevermore" is so hilariously stupid

One could say that Ferrus Mannus lost his head during his duel with Fulgrim

@eiatos

9 ай бұрын

really blew his top off

@alexmartin3143

8 ай бұрын

No way to get ahead in life…

people would lose thier damn minds if Corax came back as a Mutated Shadow entity loyalist. Along with Leman Russ and his legion of werewolf space marines.

I love when they drop hints about the lost primarchs. Alivia Sureka apparently knew or knew of one of them but swore never to speak his name.

7:00-Just to be clear, that is Fabius Bile's viewpoint of Clonegrim, and it should be taken with some salt, as Fabius is not an impartial observer in this instance. For one, he is an extremely arrogant and cynical individual in general, and for another, he does not have the highest opinion of his Primarch these days.

@chadwhitfield6946

9 ай бұрын

Fabius was also worried that his guys would follow clone Fulgrim instead of him I believe.

My theory for Alpharius/Omegon is that he actually is the AL dude in the Bequin books and is working with Valdor.

@matthiasoc7141

9 ай бұрын

That would be ANOTHER feather in Abbnett's cap. I find it hard to believe, but I cannot find it in me to disagree with you. But perhaps I just want to believe, as I am Alpharius (and collect Alpha Legion)

@emzetkin1100

9 ай бұрын

Alpharius is definitely dead, any Alpha Legion fan knows that for true. Omegon was known to use body doubles in much the same vein as his brother. Current lore suggests that few if any of the other Primarchs even knew of Omegon's existence, so I wouldn't be surprised if that death was retconned.

@PBurns-ng3gw

9 ай бұрын

Willing to bet that the Alpharius in the Bequin trilogy is actually Ingo Pech. Abnett is using the last three HH novels to in part set up the events that lead to the Bequin novels (eg Valdor and the anti-Astartes virus). Pech was purposely removed from the action in a non-lethal way, leading me to believe he shows up later to aid Eisenhorn against Valdor.

Thanks for the breakdown Ian, great job. I always thought Fulgrim was just railing space cocaine for 10,000 years in one immense debauched party so was interesting to see you list him as active and good explenation why.

As a Magnus fanboy I´d like to add that, despite the memes, the fight between Magnus and Russ was a really balanced and uncertain one till the end, all will Magnus was massivly handycaped by using pretty much all of his Psykic power to protect his last remaining sons from the aproaching Space Wolves and Custodis instead of throwing a miniature sun at his brother.

@necroLAN

5 ай бұрын

Even aside the magnus russ fight which as youve said magnus wouldve won had he not protected his legion ..all in all , The thousand sons couldve easily won had magnus not did what he did in name of repenting.

I remember someone saying a long time ago that when all the primarchs returned, one would turn loyalist and one would turn traitor. The more lore gets released, the more im convinced that Alpharius is going to turn loyalist and Corax being so corrupted by the warp would turn traitor.

@cameronphares2482

9 ай бұрын

can’t turn loyalist if you were never a traitor! **inception theme**

Amazing idea for a video. Thanks for this!

'leMAN' Russ lmao Ian your dedication to troll pronunciation is amazing

Hang on, why did you put daemon Flugrim in the ‘Active’ category? All he’s done is lounge at his pleasure planet and let his agent goons do the work for him, just like Perturabo. What makes him any more active than the Iron Lord?

Awesome lore video as always!

This video makes me feel better about the chance of Russ coming back. Would love to see a new miniature, and some narrative events for The Wolf Time.

With Sanguinius being dead - what is the Sanguinor? And who does Dante keep having visions of? Are they visions or is he talking to Sanguinius' warpy soul?

@r31n0ut

9 ай бұрын

His spirit could still be active in the warp somehow. Also, in 40k whenever warpcraft is involved time basically goes out the window as a concept. It's perfectly possible that Dante has visions of Sanguinius during the heresy or something like that.

@GentleBen_86

9 ай бұрын

The Sanguinor is basically the closest thing you can get to an Imperial daemon prince. He was originally one of Sanguinius' Sanguinary Guard back during the Heresy, and has since become the physical embodiment of Sangunius will who appears out of nowhere to aid his sons in battle when they need him the most. As for Dante's visions; well as you say, they could be Sangunius' spirit directly communicating with Dante, or they could just be Dante imagining it. We don't know just yet, but I imagine we'll find out.

@ArantyrDarkhand

9 ай бұрын

The sanguinor its the Good piece of sanguineus, and mephiston the dark.

@BentJacket

9 ай бұрын

Well, that and Celestine. Shout outs to loyalist daemons.@@GentleBen_86

@gawkthimm6030

9 ай бұрын

I think the Sanguinor is a manifistation with parts of Sanguinnius soul changed by 10 thousands years of worship as a saint

Gotta be honest, I really dislike the way the Primarchs have moved to centre stage over the years and turned into a WWE soap opera of Giant Personalities having duels with each other. I much preferred the 90s era, where they were background figures of myth and legend. Seeing them up close diminshes them. But there's a fan tendency to want to see every little scrap of backstory depicted in detail, itemised and filed away, even when the intention of that backstory was to function as a poetic sketch. The Clone Wars have gone from being a throwaway line that conjures up whole imaginary vistas to a collection of Wookieepedia articles filling in the events practically on a day-by-day basis, following hundreds of novels and TV episodes. The Terminator's future war has gone from being a couple of sketched-out, impressionistic dream sequences to entire films. I've no doubt some fucker is currently thinking of ways to turn Blade Runner's Tannhauser Gate into six animated series, a comic book run and a movie. And the sad thing is, once they've been dragged out of the realm of quantum uncertainty and thrown into sharp focus, these mythic bits of worldbuilding can never live up to the versions our individual imaginations conjured up. They're diminished.

@timothyharnedy4495

9 ай бұрын

I agree with all this. I'd also add that, having stories of the mythical Primarchs from 10,000 years ago was also one of the building blocks that created the sense of the Imperium being a decaying edifice, very much like the late Roman Empire, with its best days behind it, where it only continues to exist, because it has always existed, and only rarely has the vital force to push back the xenos and heretics who threaten to finally pull it crashing down. Having the loyalist Primarchs return doesn't just diminish the legendary status of the Primarchs themselves, but it drives a coach and horses through this image of the Imperium. Now, we have the Imperium reborn, like a supercharged version of the Eastern Roman Empire under Justinian. New, better space marines, with better equipment. Primarch heroes returned who are the equal of the Daemon Primarchs of the Traitor Legions. Now it is possible to conceive of the Imperium stronger than ever, reconquering long lost worlds, and it's a very different feel to the galaxy. All that said, however, and the galaxy is a large place. Plenty of people and places in the galaxy may well doubt the truth of the return of the Loyalist Primarchs, to whatever extent they are really aware of it, and there's still plenty of scope to create your own stories which ignore the latest edition of "The Primarchs: A Soap Opera".

@gawkthimm6030

9 ай бұрын

Hot take; as someone who has only been into Warhammer 40k for less than 7 years I deliberately started with only reading None- Horus Heresy books, wanting to get into the "modern setting" which sounded much more interesting to me than 30k. The Primarchs overarching/overshadowing presence one of the reasons. And all my favorite 40k books are those without Primarchs

@brionl4741

9 ай бұрын

GWF! Galactic Wrestlin' Federation!

@toomaskotkas4467

9 ай бұрын

The Primarchs make huge chunks of money for GW. I bet we will see a lot (if not all) returned as models and in the lore. First it's going to be Russ for the end of this edition and then Fulgrim for the beginning of the next edition.

@mikenolan73

9 ай бұрын

@@timothyharnedy4495 I feel the exact same. The Primarchs seemed to be a symbol of how far the Imperium had fallen since the Heresy. Mythical heroes from a lost "golden age" that tore itself apart. Having them returned in the "modern" 40K kind of makes the setting just a rehash of the Heresy again. Having the Imperium invent new tech like the Primaris etc really contradicts the theme of the setting that humanity no longer truly understands the technology it uses. But new marines & new Primarch models sell so that's how the setting has become diluted.

Idk if we can call sanguinius 100% definitely dead. I feel like recent lore has been dropping subtle hints at some sort of resurrection.

Always looking forward to your next upload. Cheers from Italy !

In a similar vein I'd be interested in a missing primarch/legions list of theories from most outlandish to most conventional lore interpretations

@gawkthimm6030

9 ай бұрын

Arbitor Ian already made a video on them; kzread.info/dash/bejne/qYBnm6-Mktq6f8o.htmlsi=A3l_JTQU2na9XoxO

@toomaskotkas4467

9 ай бұрын

One fell to Chaos before it was mainstream, the other one befriended xenos. Both had to be purged. The end.

@gawkthimm6030

9 ай бұрын

@@toomaskotkas4467 evidence?

@toomaskotkas4467

9 ай бұрын

@@gawkthimm6030 "...list of theories from most outlandish to most conventional lore interpretations"

@gawkthimm6030

9 ай бұрын

@@toomaskotkas4467 I just noticed your profile pic. so I will be ignoring you from now on...

Making the Primarchs so physically large really hurt the stories of their youth. Space Marines are big enough to make back stories difficult, if not for the fact that they were modified, and we rarely hear about their pre-Astartes lives. ~~Always remember, Papa Nurgle loves you!

@AdamMichalMarkowski

9 ай бұрын

Once upon a time, there was Emperor. And he was huge. He had 20 sons. They were also huge. 🤣

@ArantyrDarkhand

9 ай бұрын

@@AdamMichalMarkowskiThe emperor its Human size. Just a regular dude. Theres 2 passages when ppl see his real shape.

@TheStatisfiedOne

9 ай бұрын

I really like the fact that primarchs are this big. They are not human even if they may resemble a human

Need my boy Vulcan. Absolutely too wholesome

So timely as this morning I was considering a Corvus the Daemon conversion

@ArantyrDarkhand

9 ай бұрын

He still human... when he fight lorgar he goes human form. Its like a shape sh ift. Same way with the lion and his pocket dimension teleport forest. Each primarch its a warp entity ia mini chaos god inside a demigod human body.

Where are they now? Russ owns a company leasing off the grid huts in Canada. Magnus owns a shop in Glastonbury that sells incense, spirit catchers and crystals. Lorgar was last seen in Eastern Europe running a convent. Horus is Special Advisor to the American Republican political party. Konrad runs a donkey sanctuary in Cornwall. Fulgrim, thanks to a 1972 prog-rock hit that reached No.4 in the charts now does gigs at holiday camps and cruise ships. Perterabo is currently managing the HS2 project to connect the UK train network. The Khan runs a successful line of Subways in America. Mortarian lives above an 80’s themed bar in Manchester, he’s currently wanted for a list of local pet deaths. Rogal Dorn sells printers.

1.5x speed, thank me later.

@GreenSpleenSubmarine

3 ай бұрын

No. Imagine having no attention span.

It's good that it's you who made this. If it was me I'd have put Alpharius in Loyalist and Traitor, and in active, lazy, lost and dead

i'd be completely lost on 40k lore if it wasnt for this guy. cheers!

I much preferred Lorgar being sat in the Eye of Terror doing his own thing. 'You want me to... wreak vengeance on the Imperium? Angron that was ten thousand years ago, I'm a demon monk now. What? No I don't care, get a grip'

Brilliant breakdown, as always.

Let's consider the idea that the unmeintionable legions in terms on name being the 2nd and 11th could just be lost outside of the galaxy stranded or one is actually dead but who knows

Thanks Ian, helps a lot!

I’ve always wondered what happened to my boy Corvus Corax after he dipped 😂

As of Graham McNeil’s Warbreed and Halfbreed short stories, released with that special edition Storm of Iron a few years ago, Perturabo, just before the siege of terra, got visited by Honsou, and they talked for a while and Perturabo told Honsou he could work with him (as in, Honsou had a fire that Perturabo’s sons had been lacking for a while, and Perturabo could use that), and it basically ends with Perturabo standing up and saying “alright, Abbadons about to attack Cadia; lets go fuck up the Imperium” So he’s technically just existing but as soon as new lore comes out it’ll be about him being active, unless he left his car keys in his room or something and needs to run back into his edge fortress and grab em