I've had both and I completely agree with you about the personalities of each. The perfect Sub for me would be the pre-ceramic with the later bracelet.

@stevendhanjal3679

Жыл бұрын

totally agree

Had multiples of both versions that I flipped. Both sell very well with a definite preference for the newer Ceramic. People want new especially younger watch enthusiast. The more I handled and examined them closely, the more I started leaning towards the previous models. I really had to think about it because the new Ceramics are a better watch in every way except one. Aesthetics. Selecting a watch is as much a emotional matter of the heart as it is a logically thought out decision. In reality you can’t go wrong with either but in the end the elegant profile and old school vibe of the Aluminum 5 digits won me over. The newer Subs are glitzy, bloated, overstated caricatures of themselves. Then Rolex doubled down by increasing the diameter to 41mm. I am so done with the bulky oversized watch thing

I’ve been watching KZread videos on a plethora of topics over the last 14 years. Your intro is, hands down, the most artistic and powerful I’ve ever had the pleasure of watching. Bravo, man.

@PatrickBateman191

2 жыл бұрын

Do you know who the composer is and what the name of the piece is ? Thank you. (I guess Bach).

I have a 1973 Rolex Sub 5512 no date bought new by my Grandfather in Red Bank, New Jersey in 1974. He wore it everyday for 31 years until he passed in 2005. The watch has been around the world, and on 3 cross ocean sailing voyages. I wouldn't sell it for any amount of money. Still keeps perfect time!

@don1165

2 жыл бұрын

Well that's the real deal there. Yeah -- Priceless! Good for you (and your smart Grandfather)

Man, I really appreciate the 16610 more these days. The last of an icon. Great video, buddy, we dig your jam.

I'm old school. I have a 1991, 16610. To me the watch looks and wears perfectly. I do like the new glide lock bracelet though.

I really appreciate this assessment. I was struggling with old vs. new and I agree that the elegance of the older design can’t be beat! Just hope the prices don’t jump any higher before I finish saving for one!

Have had my '16610' for 14 years now and still love and cherish it. Like most folks I've had a few prized possessions but none of them close to my Subie..! I also love how it's accrued in value. Bought mine new in 2005 for a little under $5K USD.

One correction: you do NOT have to go to the store to adjust the bracelet on the older model. It does have the little holes along the sides of the clasp and you can adjust it yourself. Not as neat and easy as with the new clasp, but you definitely do not have to go to the store. So in the new model, the wet suit extension is in the new clasp adjustment versatility. In the old model, the wet suit extension and the adjustment are two different things.

@PaulCorrea-vd1zm

11 ай бұрын

All you need is a toothpick to adjust the old ones.

@Ds92817

Ай бұрын

Came here to say that. Cool video but that part was totally wrong and a grand exaggeration.

Great review putting these two great watches together. I like them both as much. Thanks for your input, it’s greatly appreciated and you know what you are talking about. Your music is also great. Thanks!

Another great video👌🏼.The older case is more comfortable on the wrist compared to the super case. Oh the new two tone Sea Dweller 43 is a Super Wasp on the wrist! 😁 Will make video soon!!

I agree, the pre-ceramic wins for me. I am wearing my Dad’s Circa 1984 two-tone Oyster Perpetual “Date”, at 34mm with sort of off-silver sunburst dial and it is beautiful. Incidentally, the clasp looks exactly like your pre-ceramic Sub, just smaller. Great video, thank you!

Great video brother. I have a 2005 Submariner and I love it. Understated, elegant, and masculine. Mine is mint - and will stay that way. Thx for the awesome content.

I've owned my 16610 since 2005. Bought it new and never comes off my wrist. Love it!

@snapascrew

3 жыл бұрын

How many times have you had it serviced? Are you the kind of person to wear it to the beach or leave it back home?

@Shavenuw129

3 жыл бұрын

@@snapascrew I've had it serviced twice in the 15 years I've owned it. Not cheap, about the same as servicing your car. But the 'engine' in my watch runs all the time whereas the car sits on my drive for 90% of the time...

@Shavenuw129

3 жыл бұрын

And it goes everywhere.

I’ve owned several versions of the Sub and you’re absolutely right; I think the last classic Sub is the 16610T. I have one from 2008; an M serial and with the no-holes case and rehaut. Absolutely a keeper! Ultimate evolution of the model from the early 1680. After that, they seem to have gone on steroids!!! I have always wished that Rolex would offer more factory strap/bracelet choices as well but for some reason never did. Back in the day, the Rolex Service center used to supply you with an “Inox” skin diver rubber strap on request but not any more!

Still relevant even a couple years later. I just made the decision to get the 16610 version over the newer on the resale market. They have all jumped from $10-$12 now, proving what a solid and desirable model it really is. Thanks for the video.

Cool explanation of the characteristics of each watch. How about a comparison video for the old EXP I (114270) and new EXP I (214270, MKII)?

I have seen many different watch reviews, but this guy offers something special to the game. Keep up the good work. You were the reason that i bought a Rolex Submariner date M series. Also i'm quite sure that you are the reason that i have to take my Omega Seamster 300m to Trieste ;)

Had the V series 16610 and loved it. Lume was not as sharp so traded in to the AD for a new super case 116610LN in 2019. Never got used to it and sold after one year. Back to a Z series 16610 and happy. The newer one was flashy.

I have a 16610 from 1990, It is the most comfortable watch I have ever worn. It's a keeper!

Great review my friend! Picking up a 2004 Sea Dweller on Friday 💪🏿

Really good video - both enjoyable and informative, and definitely never dull; my education about the brand and its products continues.....

Ive owned 2 ceramic versions and loved them but love the pre ceramic more. I picked up an excellent condition 2002 model, solid end links and pierced lugs.....perfection for me.

Pre ceramic for me. Originally, I wanted a Sea dweller Because I like the heft of the watch.. but then I came across a ceramic sub and fell in love, and no longer did I need to go to the sea dweller to get that hefty look.

I love the super case chunky, and the ceramic, but the vintage holds an appreciation of it's own!!!

I like the pre-ceramic more. I even prefer the no-date. Feel more pure and classic.

@christianhardwick6530

4 жыл бұрын

Looks like your just trying to save a buck which basically is cheap. You get one with the date complication then your actually forced to recognize your watch you get to take it off on the none 31 days and admire it some more. the no date is lazy and cheap. IMO

@Touyoujin

3 жыл бұрын

Christian Hardwick It seems like submariner date is mostly preferred by those who don’t know much about submariner’s heritage or watches. Simply jumping on the wagon because everyone has one with date or it’s easily recognizable as Rolex from far. Just look like someone with no substance or class, purely wealth flaunting imo

@drpepper3838

16 күн бұрын

​@@christianhardwick6530the no date loos more clean. Keep yapping you prolly can't even afford one

The pre ceramic every time for me. I have two subs but am now going down the Omega Sea Master road., the quality for the price is outstanding, and the movement is only less than on the Sub by 1 sec. The design of these watches are beautiful (apart from the helium valve which should be automatic and incorporated into the side). The Rolex Brand has been getting a lot of bad press because of their attitude towards customers over the Submariner, sitting on it's brand not caring or listening to loyal customers. The Sub gap could easily be filled if they ignore customers from this sector, by same quality and more reasonably priced companies like the Omega Sea Master. Many luxury car companies have sat on their names in the past but failed to see what was coming up behind them. If customers turn on Rolex they can make a difference, nothing in this life is guaranteed.

@gasparjohnson3774

3 жыл бұрын

The new 2018 Seamaster has a better movement, a 70-hour power reserve, and a silicon hairspring making it anti-magnetic. The METAS rating on the SMP is -0 to +6 better to have a watch that never runs slow since then the only thing you have to do hack the watch till the correct time catches up and push the crown back in. Mine is running a consistent +2 a day.

I like the lugs of the old ones WAY BETTER than the new ones.

The best comparison of the case sizes was when you were showing the case backs. When the light reflected off of each case back the difference of case width etc was very noticeable. Good work!

4 жыл бұрын

Cheers Martin.

Amazing review and great info about the clasp. Very informative thank you.

Good video! I own the 116610LN but previous model has that more classic design and appearance, but i wouldnt change mine. Great channel sure its grows very soon! regards from Spain

Classic case but do love the new bracelet/clasp....

Great intro and video. Thanks! A nice 16610 is fetching north of $12k currently. 😳 For my money the pre-ceramic is much more refined and elegant.

Man, you got the time to match on both of these pretty much to the second! Very Impressive. Love the pre ceramic. Love the channel. Cheers!

Thx a lot for this video. Enjoyed it. Salute

I strongly prefer the pre-ceramic as well but wasn’t willing to pay new Sub prices for an old Sub with the old bracelet so I went with a BB58. Scratches the itch for an old Sub but without the trade offs.

Thanks for this. I actually prefer the older one as it now looks more modern. Big chunky watches seemed to come in with the millennium and is why Panerai did well. I think those days are now done and slimmer more elegant watches are making a come back.

I have a 1680 that I got in 1976 I love it only been serviced two times no scratches replaces the crystal I have it on every day

Just tested the new one today, a friend picked up in Texas and got to feel the glide lock

Excellent attention to detail with this review. This will go a long way in a decision-making process for choosing which sub to get.

I have the Invicta version of this watch. I think it is of better quality than the Rolex, and there was a very short wait list for it. ( around 5 min. ) Invicta uses 909 grade stainless, which is actually 5 levels higher / better than Rolex. I am on the list with my Invicta AD, for the new Invicta Nautilus styled piece, that will set the high bar for this design by Gerald Genta, when he was head of design for Invicta.

@davidmccall4776

4 ай бұрын

I have the Invicta 9937OB with the Swiss Sellita-200 movement, and for the money, I'm quite satisfied.

You make some good points though I suspect when you get used to the new Sub you might change your view somewhat. The Explorer 214270 is said to be the Rolex for the man with nothing to prove. I've had mine ten days now and am still getting used to it. I take your point about the older bracelet so maybe if one bought the pre-ceramic model at the right price and then put a new bracelet on it the whole would be perfect?

Just bought a 16610 from a collector. I'm like you. I've owned a couple subs with the super case but sold them all this past year. Something just never fit right. I will probably swap for a glide lock clasp/bracelet. Then you have the best of both worlds.

Thank you for the good review video... and thank you for being the first reviewer I have noted, that precisely synchronizes the watches for his reviews.

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Chris.

Very nice comparison of the pre-ceramic and ceramic models of the Submariner. You did a great job explaining the subtle differences between the two time pieces. While I’m not presently in the market for a Rolex, if and when I am in the market, I will look for the pre-ceramic version Submariner. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the two watches. Great video!...Ed

I have a 90s sea dweller and I’ve borrowed a max case sub ,I agree that the older models wears nicer and are under the radar, but I like both! I have the new clasp on my 39mm explorer and it’s great but I also like the feel of the old clasp ,so I agree with you if someone is thinking of buying a Rolex sub definitely go for a older model and keep it for life and wear It!don’t worry about scratches it’s life.

Deanta go maith, Cara. On the market for a Submariner and this video has turned things round and pointed me in the direction of a collector condition, late model 16610. Many thanks. Enjoying your channel, also helps that I have a passion for Italy.

This channel is growing nicely. Congrats. Doing well. Content is good.

Yup, I agree with a previous comment regarding the description of “ Wasp”. Perfect. Absolutely exquisite channel. Pass on a “ nod” to your daughter for the work she produces for the channel.

Wow. I guess your points are totally new and very informative to all of us.

Nice video, just discovered your channel and I like it so far!

Not sure if you are aware but the V serial for the 16610 was not the last series as they did have a random serial. Also the engraved rehaut was available in the 2007 to 2009 for 14060M and 16610 Submariner.

We get our Rolex fix right here. It saves me a fortune 🤑

14060M G serial: Best Sub of History

Old case shape with a ceramic insert would be the best of both worlds

@jcsfx77

4 жыл бұрын

SunsetSheen yup! I second that 👍

@DeeKay1911

3 жыл бұрын

And the new bracelet !

@georgiebungle2252

3 жыл бұрын

Agree

Very nice, have had my eyes on a 2-liner.

Great video on the best sports watch around. I prefer the 116610.

Great video and great channel as always. Definitely the one on the left (older one) for me!! I feel like that ruined the proportions on the newer sub.

Some great comments on here and another great vid, of course nobody is wrong, we all have our own idea on perfection. The 5 fig 2010 model does look amazing and this one is in beautiful condition but that clasp and strap is what makes a bit difference to me. The maxi case and glidelock is in my eyes perfection. Great quality review buddie, lighting just right to make both watches pop. Makes me love my Sub (ceramic) just that little bit more. Keep up the good work and great content 👏🏼

outstanding review Sir !!! yes i am in the market for a preowned sub , hoping soon...

Good video - agree with your conclusions. Watches from many manufacturers are trying too hard and fluffing up aesthetics in the process - Omega Seamaster 300M another example where the older models were less shouty. Only point I don't agree is that engraved rehaut which is a bit vulgar in my view.

I have a 2010 model too. And like you said, its a bad boy and it knows it. Nothing to try and prove.

You always do great videos, and this is no different . I seem to be driven to pour a glass of wine when I watch though. Happy New Year

Different strokes for different folks. I have the 1993 holes case tritium dial. Creamy aged markers and immaculate. I prefer the early 16610 and find the holes case wonderful and a real last gasp of the classic tool watch sub before Rolex decided that they didi not want you to wear this watch on anything else other than the bracelet and made their watches luxury ready! I wear mine on a beautiful dark brown strap and it is anonymous to all. I love this aspect. Lastly. I have owned the ceramic and the pre ceramic and I prefer the delicate comfort of the much earlier abused and maligned bracelet to the new. I think the new bracelets are too bulky and blingy...for me! Nice comparison Oisin. Thanks for the video.

Great side by side 👍🏽 Out of my price range but the older one is what I think I of when I think Rolex - it looks more refined, subtle. I’ve always thought of Rolex as the brand that people “in the know” would wear and the average person would over look. The newer has some great improvements but are more obvious, chunky and the colored ones look somewhat comical which is ok if that’s your thing. Not a subscriber yet but your winning me over - curious if you’re into any different brands

Thanks for the comparison! Good vid. My preference is definitely the older, smaller case version...except for the clasp. I have the Explorer (Mk II version} and that clasp is perfect. But my REAL preference is the Yachtmaster over the Sub. Now that's a watch! Someday in my future.....

4 жыл бұрын

I also love the Yacht!!

@mrp9498

4 жыл бұрын

Jeff Snyder Yachtmaster is much more comfortable than the super case Subs.👍🏼

Hi, do you now if this luminova is also turning into a patina like the tritium does?

The one thing you have to keeping mind about the oyster supers case is the time it came out, a few years back, the hottest brand our there was Panerai. When Rolex came out with new updates to the brand(ceramic, new bracelet and lume), you have take into consideration that they competing in market that was looking for a larger watch trend and Rolex answer the demand with case that filled out the wrist with more presence. Now that the fade, like bell bottom jeans and elevator shoes, has gone away I think you will see Rolex return back to it's original dimensions but with the improvement in technology.

@mikec3454

4 жыл бұрын

Navegando Lejano Oriente it would be amazing if they did!

Superb review and comparison. Bravo!

Great input

Great side by side. Any update to your thoughts on your choice of 16610, but now against the 126610s since they've gone back to the more classic lug size?

I’ve watched hundreds of watch reviews (it’s a sickness). I liked this one. I own the modern date sub. After 5 years the supercase is driving me nuts.

Great video! I have the sub 2 tone with black face just like yours. I didn't go for the blue because I'm more attracted to black face watches I guess we almost have the same taste in watches. Enjoy it in good health!!!!

Both looks good but I prefer the Pre-Supercase with solid middle links. The new version is trying a little too hard in my opinion but you can't go wrong with either.

I was so focussed on the Ceramic version, (which I couldn’t get) that I hadn’t considered the pre ceramic as a viable option. After watching your review numerous times I began to fully appreciate the last version of the pre-ceramic 16610 model. I started searching and held off on a number of older models and finally just found and purchased a late 2008 series 16610, Thanks very much for your advice, I have subscribed to your channel and I wish you all the best!..

4 жыл бұрын

Yes that 2008 sub is perfection. Rumor has it Rolex might be going back to that design. Congrats!

@alihussain5272

4 жыл бұрын

At timeless watch channel Great video love your channel! Given that Rolex is very secretive about everything, where is exactly are these rumours coming from? Thanks

I love both the new and old but I got my self the 16040 "two liner" no date because it has the most "clean" looking dial. However a new ceramic GMT master would be nice.

Totally agree!

Question - I’m in the market for a new watch. Currently, I have a two watch collection (Datejust 36 champagne diamond dial two tone and a Cartier Tank Solo). Should I buy a 2015 Submariner (Box & Papers) or a new Datejust silver index from a AD? Background, I tend to wear more business attire during the work week. My two tone is a bit flashy when I’m wearing causal clothes in the evening and weekends or at the Airport. Also, I have small wrist (6 3/8 wrist) Thanks.

Great review and fully agree with your assessment the 16610 is much more refined and near perfect shape and proportions for the sub. I feel the maxi case is more suitable to the gold and 2 tone Subs as it makes more of a statement. Obviously Rolex seem to be pandering to a younger client making the watches bigger but to most less appealing as to what the brand represents

Classic, both lovely. Thanks

I Enjoy your videos. As a SCUBA shop owner, and professional diver for 10 years, I've always loved the idea of owning a Submariner, but alas, those of us who work in the industry can't actually afford one. I would love to dive with one.

Oisin, I smiled today when I heard you mention the grey market price for the ceramic sub , since the launch of the new sub I’ve seen the 116610 going for 13,000 and one for 15,000. The latest sub selling in USA for 18,500 how ridiculous is it going to get 🤷‍♂️. Nows the time to off load your sub if you want to make a buck or two , by the way great vid as usual mate .

I have the 16610 - bought new in 1990. It's my daily wearer - to this day. (It is a an early one. The "flip lock" on the clasp does not have the little lines across it - as even ones at the End of 1990 have. I like it cause it's mine. But also it is a big more "reserved" and elegant. Slightly harder to read than the newer one. Lume worn out now. But wears great and will slip under a shirt cuff fine. Bracelet is kinda cheap? But it's a Rolex - fine with me.

Great comparison! Still can't decide, though. ☺️

Excellent observation on the differing personalities. 👍👍

The best review i ever see.....

To be honest I think I like the black and gold one you're wearing the best. It could be the one for me!

Well done, cheers!

Love your videos! Would love to see one on the 214270, maybe comparing mark 1 vs mark 2?

4 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/nKF6m8WKl9e_f6Q.html

5 digit old money, six digit new money.

@truxton1000

3 жыл бұрын

Ok, I got 3 four digit and 1 five digit sub, what does it make me?

@baldilocks1914

3 жыл бұрын

@@truxton1000 distinguished

@truxton1000

3 жыл бұрын

@@baldilocks1914 Hmmm, that sounds good ;-) I got a few Seiko as well just to balance it out.

I have the 16610ln & the 116610ln 😂 might put a cool sapphire aftermarket bezel on the ceramic sub to make em different

I have no problem with the bracelet on my 16610. The thin clasp and hollow center links result in an exceedingly lightweight piece compared to some. I've owned both Btw

Nice video! Well presented, with a comparative degree of understated cool and sophistication.

4 жыл бұрын

that's a nice compliment. Thanks Paul!

@paulhanson6008

4 жыл бұрын

The Timeless Watch Channel You are welcome my friend. Deserved.

Great vlog

How do you not have more subs? One of the better comparison vids I’ve seen. I’ve owned both, and like u prefer the 16610. Sold my 116610 for a 14060. Just nicer lines all around

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Audiman! Yes, the 14060 is gorgeous. Nice choice. As for my subs.... the channel is 2 weeks old as of today. Baby steps. Thanks for watching!

I didn't realise the diiference in the two models, it really is quite striking? I have to say, both great watches, but think I prefer the pre- ceramic iteration, but you're right about the strap pin holes being ugly?

Oisin is THE GOAT (bless me with Rolex zaddy)

The black and gold is so bad azz! Edit: I got a 09 16610 in June of 2021 and it cost me just over 10k but it’s beautiful with engraved Rehaut and even though nobody can see it I love it.

Ask yourself this.. What watch would you rather take diving? Of course the 114060. What watch would you wear to the bar after diving. A pre ceramic right. My choice would be a 5513. I have both and they are awesome AF.

@robertsullivan4773

4 жыл бұрын

And no one except the rare watch geek would know you wearing a Rolex much less it it's ceramic or not.

@derekholyfield6089

4 жыл бұрын

@@robertsullivan4773 100% true.

@robertsullivan4773

4 жыл бұрын

@@derekholyfield6089 not trying to be an ass. But my yellow 97 NSX gets me far more comments and compliments than my Rolex GMT Master II Black ever does.

For me, I have circa an 8.5 inch wrist (21.59 cm). As it is, the larger wearing 116610 looks a bit small on my wrist. I can't imagine what the pre-ceramic model would look like given it wears so much smaller.