In frontier America, these ultra short shotguns were often called saloon guns because of their common usage in its namesake.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Yes, shotguns were used a lot more than most people think when talking about the old West.

@santamanone

10 ай бұрын

I’ve heard them called “coach guns” also.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

@@santamanone Yeah, Pedersoli makes a couple different shotguns they call "Coach" guns that have barrels a little longer than these - those are 20-inch barrels compared to the 11-inch barrels on this.

@killerkraut9179

10 ай бұрын

Wasnt extrem short Shottguns not mostly a criminal thing!

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

@@killerkraut9179 Not necessarily - they could be used for bad and good alike, depending on who was using it for what reason.

"Keep your hand away from the noisy end." EXCELLENT ADVICE 😂 As you always do, very good video, thank you.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching!

To keep your spread far more uniform. Instead of the over powder/cushion wads, use an equal measure (60-grains) of Corn meal. This will prevent the shot from deforming by easing the transition from static to movement, therefore giving consistent patterns. Feild and Competition shooters have been doing this for a long time. Check out Cap and Balls video on this.

@johnzx6r

2 ай бұрын

I have seen and heard of cornmeal being used as a buffer. I do plan on trying it out at some point.

I second the shot cup idea. Very interesting piece of history.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

I'll have to look into the shot cup idea - see if that is something that will work in one of these.

Very few channels feature muzzle loading shotguns, very cool. In the old west some of these were used as barkeep shotguns. Mainly used as clubs more then protection.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Thanks! Shotguns were used a lot back then - more often than usually portrayed in Westerns and the like. They are certainly formidable firearms!

@robertmiller4993

8 ай бұрын

That would certainly take a man out of a saddle quickly.

@johnzx6r

8 ай бұрын

@@robertmiller4993 Yes, it would!

@robertmiller4993

8 ай бұрын

@johnzx6r Yes, if the barkeeper pointed it in your direction, you would/should modify your behavior quickly 😁

You had my attention. NOW YOU HAVE MY ATTENTION

@johnzx6r

4 ай бұрын

👍

I love all the smoke from firing both barrels.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Me, too! I didn't think to get video of it, but it was so humid, and the air was so still, after the first shot I took the smoke just hung in the air for probably a good five minutes!

@carrisasteveinnes1596

11 ай бұрын

I would like to have seen a case of pisswater Bud Lite blown to smithereens, as I rather like Arizona iced tea.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

@@carrisasteveinnes1596 If I had some of that garbage hanging around, I would have😁! Certainly not going to spend my hard-earned money to buy any!

Great video and beautiful shotgun. Thank you.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching!

I have one, love it. I swapped the nipples out with musket cap nipples and mine has a real love for both buck n ball and #4 buckshot and patterns well out to 15-20 yards.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

I have a set of musket cap nipples for this, just as a backup in case my supply of #11's runs short.

Someone may have asked already… but a .600 round ball with a .015” pillow ticking patch over 60 grains of FFg would be fun

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

It had been mentioned, and I am going to try it, I just have to order some .600 round balls.

@raytribble8075

11 ай бұрын

I build custom flintlocks (for myself) and my last was a .62 caliber rifled transitional style. Wonderful to hunt with.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

@@raytribble8075 I wish I had the talent and patience to make my own rifles.

@raytribble8075

11 ай бұрын

@@johnzx6r it’s not a race… the kits these days like Kiblers are amazing. I buy the barrels and locks and build the rest… it may take 6 months… but it’s worth it

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

@@raytribble8075 I've seen the Kibler kits, and have been so tempted to get one, but I just don't think I have the skills to finish one. I've seen some craftsmen do some real magic with the kits, though.

Another great video. Thanks and keep them coming. 👍🏻👍🏻

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Awesome shotgun. I have the Pedersoli 20 gauge double barrel Howdah Pistol, same barrels. Great video thank you.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Yup - same barrels. I would like to try out a Howdah some day, just can't justify the expense at this time. I was lucky to pick this up (used) for a pretty good price. Maybe someday I'll stumble across a Howdah.

I like the thought of a cavalry charge with a pair of these in a saddle scabbard. Probably wasn't too common but im sure someone tried it

@johnzx6r

8 ай бұрын

I wouldn't be surprised if a few cavalrymen carried a couple shotguns and a brace of pistols going into a charge.

I've always wanted one. It seemed more elegant than a howdah pistol with shoulder stock. I'll bet a shot cup would tighten the pattern.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

I like the Howdahs, but I think this is a little more practical than those. There are dozens of different ways to load these things to tweak the shot pattern. When I have the time I'll try different methods and see how this performs.

@Joe3pops

11 ай бұрын

Often, a howdah pistol was utilized with a full caliber roundball, for a single very specific task.The diametrically opposite of a buckshot-birdshot load in a shotgun of any barrel length. They might look similar, but it ends at looks versus utility.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

@@Joe3pops Yeah, if I had a Howdah I'd use it primarily with roundball. Just in case any lions or tigers decide to attack me 😁

@daleharvey3278

6 ай бұрын

Using an unslit wad from ballistic products,or a tps etc wad that's heavy for tungsten, using a wrap inside wad

@conanruisi

2 ай бұрын

Remember, there’s no single trigger howdah!

I have the baker. Also two different setups for the Howdah pistol. What's nice is all the barrels are interchangeable.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Yup! Same barrels will work!

@robertcole9391

10 ай бұрын

@@johnzx6r 20 gauge, 20/50 rifled and 28 gauge double. Makes for an interesting day at the range. LOL Also makes for a great quail gun and street sweeper. I also found and still working on it, paper cartridges that are nitrated. Should save time on reloads once I get it figured out.

Very interesting being that short. It would make a great home defense weapon sitting next to the bed. You said that 00 buckshot does not stack well and has a terrible pattern. A 20 gauge is .62 Caliber. During the revolutionary war George Washington's favorite charge was a Buck and Ball combination. This used one .62 cal. ball and three 00 buckshot. I'm not sure how it would perform in such a short barrel, but it would be interesting to see the results. Overall, a good video. Best Regards. . . .

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Thanks! I watched another video where the person tried a buck and ball load out of one of these. It didn't seem to do particularly well. I'll have to give it a try for myself and see what it can do.

@matthaft2048

10 ай бұрын

The most common caliber for muskets during the revolutionary war were the english style .75 and the French .69 so a.62 RB and 00 buck would fit fine bare or in a paper cartridge especially as the weapon fouled. For a 20ga.(.62) personally I’d do a .58 RB paper cartridge with #4 buckshot.

@HircineDaWolf

9 ай бұрын

buck and ball def smacks in these setups

That looked like fun John thanks 4 sharing.

@johnzx6r

3 ай бұрын

It was pretty fun, and thank you for watching!

I have a lot of experience with smooth bores. I find that wool wads alone will replace paper and fiber overpowder wads . I stack two over powder and one over shot. It simplifies loading and patterns well.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

I'll try that - I still have a lot of experimenting to do with this!

@slowpokebr549

10 ай бұрын

I'd try light loads of fff in those short tubes. Anything bigger and slower is just getting thrown out on the ground unburned.

Nice video, John. I may get that stock platform for my pedersoli as well.

Just found your channel. Great production and content!

@johnzx6r

6 ай бұрын

Thank you, and welcome!

It does look fun. Thank you for the vid.

Now that is really cool👌🏼

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, it is pretty cool, isn't it?

Very good video enjoyed it

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Thank you - glad you liked it!

that is pretty awsome sir

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Thank you - I think so, too!

Magnífico

So awesome.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

👍

It's interesting you want with a barrel that short. Me I'd be interested in seeing how well it handles a .600-.610 round ball. With those dementions it could be ideal for an old fashioned buffalo run. If you know what that is? I always wanted to do one. Mountain man

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

No, never heard of a buffalo run - I'll have to look that up. I'm going to try this thing out with round balls at some point - might not be any time soon, but when I do, I'll try to put a video up.

@StevenMMan

11 ай бұрын

@johnzx6r A buffalo run is the way native and the mountain man would harvest from horse back. By cutting out a portion of the heard for a close up near contact harvest for effective Lance, archery, and later firearms. A reenactment of the method can be seen in dances with wolves

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

@@StevenMMan Ah, Okay! Yeah, I can see how something like this might be pretty effective in something like that!

Nice video. Well done. I have the howda hunter. It would be very interesting if pedersoli would make a 12ga. Like the gun in the western classics “3:10 to Yuma”. It would be legal in the USA if it was a break action double barrel with plugged barrels at the breach for 209 primers and loaded from the muzzle for black powder only. The American Gun Craft Diablo is similar but they don’t offer the full length stock in wood like this gun. The Diablo is nice but Pedersoli just does beautiful work with wood and finishes.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

I've seen that Diablo. It is interesting, and it would be nice to see something like that with a full stock. Pedersoli makes a couple different 12-gauge muzzle-loading shotguns with longer barrels about 20 inches long. They call them "Coach Guns" and they are very similar to the one from the movie. I'll do a video on them one of these days!

Damn thats neat. I need one.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Yes, you do need one!

More on this shotgun please 👍👍👍

@johnzx6r

5 ай бұрын

I've got a few things planned for it!

Cav-al-ry. "Calvary" is something else.

Pedersoli makes Nice guns i have a pedersoli special long range 1874 sharps

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

They do. A Sharps is on my bucket list - just can't swing one right now!

Very nice

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Thank you!

While I was making paper cartridges for my Baker, I discovered that the left barrel was choked slightly, which is puzzling since the right barrel on mine fires first. I don't know if it's a factory defect or what, but I bought it drastically discounted from Midway a couple years ago. It functions flawlessly otherwise and the stock is absolutely gorgeous walnut. Thanks

@johnzx6r

3 ай бұрын

Haven't noticed a difference in my barrels. This one is an older one, and oddly enough the left barrel fires first.

traditionally #3 and #2 buckshot have been used in 20 ga shotguns

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

I found some #3 in stock, but haven't been able to find any #2, yet. I'm definitely going to get some to try out in this. Thanks!

I would think it was like the coach guns that they used with a trip wire to protect the horses when stopped. I have only seen a few. One is at the governor's palace in New Bern NC.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Neat! I'll have to see if I can find a photo of the one at the Governor's Palace - that is something I would like to see!

@outdoorlife5396

10 ай бұрын

@@johnzx6r It is basically a plunder puss, I think is how you say it. It is used for highway men and it has rings you sit in the ground and run trip wires to it to take the legs off of thief's.

Nice

With barrels that short(howdah pistol length), I would suggest using 40 grns of 2F and a .600 round ball.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

I am going to try some round ball in this as well - I just have to order some.

@robertrobert7924

11 ай бұрын

@@johnzx6r who casts and sells .600 round balls?

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

@@robertrobert7924 Track of the Wolf has them.

Thank You for this video. Could you explain how the trigger works on this. It appears to have only one trigger , and two hammers.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Right, it only has one trigger. There is a spring-loaded lever in the trigger mechanism, and it will trip the sear of whichever hammer is back. If the left hammer is cocked, pulling the trigger will fire that hammer. If the right hammer is cocked, the trigger will fire that hammer. If both hammers are cocked it will fire the left barrel first, then releasing the trigger moves the spring-loaded lever over to the other sear, and pulling the trigger again will fire the right barrel. So with both hammers back this shotgun can fire two shots basically as fast as you can pull the trigger twice. It's a pretty clever system, and seems to work pretty well.

@eliast2351

Ай бұрын

Since this is a reproduction, did the originals have a single trigger and shoot the same?

Thinking they loaded it with a paper cartridge of buck and ball kind of like Thir infantry muskets. The advantage of it was It gave them 2 quick shots on a moving horse in an attack. And ya 14 - 18 in on the barrel length sounds about right.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

I haven't really been able to find much info on the actual loads that were used during that time, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar to what was used in the muskets. And as you say, pretty much every photo I have seen of actual Civil War shotguns the barrels have been somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 - 20 inches or so.

Very cool. Could it be fired with any slug in it?

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

You could use a round ball in this - that will act as a slug of sorts. That's one of the benefits of a muzzleloading shotgun - if you can cram it down the muzzle, it will shoot it!

@Bayan1905

11 ай бұрын

I have one, mine really prefers the .570 lead roundballs but have used up to a .600 which isn't bad. I actually think it shoots better with the .570" balls, seems to pattern better with them and 70 grains of FFG Goex.

@paulbervid1610

11 ай бұрын

@@Bayan1905 sounds awesome

@paulbervid1610

11 ай бұрын

@@johnzx6r I have a couple of bp derringers including a duckfoot and would like to try them with small shot. But with these type of shot guns I might be tempted to do the reverse.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

@@Bayan1905 These were the first and only shots I've put through this so far. I still have a lot of experimenting to do. I'll try both the .570 and the .600 in mine - we'll see what happens!

I live in Texas. I load #4 buckshot in the summer, when it's t-shirt weather and save my 00 for the winter...

Military users in places like Malaya and Borneo fount No 4 buck was the best when measured by range, spread and penetration.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

00 buck gets all the fanfare. No 4 doesn't seem to get the attention it deserves. It's very efficient in many situations.

I imagine a buck n ball load in paper cartridge would be the standard for this. No shot card or wad.

Load half Oz of shot put any of .36 , . 44 . 45 . 50 calibre ball , add second Oz of shot. Good for long range .

Nice video. Have you tried No.1 buckshot in this shotgun? Cheers from Europe.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

No, haven't had the time yet to try anything else but #4 buck through it. Hopefully at some point.

Looks like it’s similar to the “Howda” gun (even shorter) used by tiger hunters riding elephants in the same time period.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, basically the same principle.

nice🎉

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Thank you!

a gun like this would be much more of my liking if it was 16 gauge and with barrels no shorter than 16 inches

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

That would be a great shotgun! Unfortunately, no company nowadays would make something like that. 16 gauge has become pretty unpopular, sadly.

Though about making a stock like this for my howda

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Could be an interesting project.

00 works poorly in 20 Gauge but if shells you can buff out the gaps with bird shot but obviously that isn't going to work in a black power gun.20 seems to prefer number 4 but I'd guess similar sized number 3 , which I think is .25, would work too?

@johnzx6r

6 ай бұрын

I think so. Any of the smaller buckshot might work OK. If I get a chance I'd like to try out some different size buckshot in this and see what happens.

Totally awesome how you stand there talking with a charged barrel full of #4 pointed at your face. You top it off by warning people to not put there hand out towards the muzzle so they don’t shoot off their fingers.

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Except it wasn't pointed at my face. It was about a foot away from me, pointing at the sky.

What primer cap number did u use

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

I'm using CCI #11 here.

Better try a single round ball too

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Yup! On the list of things to do!

Nice shootin’, Mississippi! Now try doing that after diving under some horses ;) (El Dorado)

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Ha! I understood the reference! 😁

@classicgunstoday1972

11 ай бұрын

@@johnzx6r glad to hear it, steve rogers ;)

Sawed off shotguns used during the civil war used duplex loads or multiple shot and buck and ball in the multiple shot(duplex) used buck along with No.4 & No.6 or 7 shot to equal an full buck shot load in whate the confederate call this blue rollers and most shotguns where cut down to 15 to 17 inch's I guess by some old photos I have seen

@johnzx6r

5 ай бұрын

Yes, I'd like to try something like that in this. Might be pretty interesting.

@user-ut9gr9mn2i

3 ай бұрын

​​​​@@johnzx6ryou got to remember that there shotguns had 15--17 Inch barrel the baker has a 11 inch barrel and some had 19 Inch also most shotguns used where 12 or 16 GA.few where 20 GA.Oh may I say that useing CCI magnum caps may help

One thing about it……..if you miss him…..use can use the smoke screen to evade him 🤷🏻‍♂️🤣

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Ain't that the truth!

Bom dia

Why don't they make it in 12 gauge?

@johnzx6r

9 ай бұрын

I wish I knew. It would be awesome as a 12 gauge.

Thire is pretty a ATF agent just got clicked baited looking for a SBS.

Maybe good for home defence!

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

Very well could be!

@killerkraut9179

10 ай бұрын

@@johnzx6r In some places where are strict laws maybe this thing would be allowed in some Places ! If you would put Plastic Soft air BBs in the barrel , would it work as a less leathal option maybe?

It is cav for cavalry not cal for cavalry

I enjoy your subject matter and just want to help your presentation in a very small way. The term is cavalry not Calvary. You pronounced it Calvary (which is actually the name of the hill where Jesus was crucified) several times in your video, but it is actually cavalry when referencing mounted military. You are kinda switching the "L" and the "V" around when you say it. Thanks for the interesting video.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, you are right. That just seems to be one of those words that I just have a difficult time pronouncing properly! I'll try to be more aware of next time! Glad you liked the video, even with my mispronunciation!

@glynnmitchell9253

10 ай бұрын

I do the exact same thing 🤣

@davidkermes376

19 күн бұрын

a common transposition in north america, unless you went to a catholic school run by nuns. .they would retrain yuou real quick.

So because this is black powder you don't need paperwork for the overall length of this

@johnzx6r

2 ай бұрын

That is correct. They don't fall under the ATF NFA requirements.

@jamesdeek7039

2 ай бұрын

@@johnzx6r perfect. I've been wanting one of these for awhile

@davidkermes376

19 күн бұрын

muzzle loader only.

Mist pwn

Probably expensive

Quite effective for dispatching Yankees.

@TheWalterKurtz

11 ай бұрын

As a Wisconsin Prairie Yankee Refugee from the "Progrssive" state of Wisconsin to The Great State of Arkansas, I endorse your observation, sir.

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

I'm sure it would be, at that!

Algorithm comment

Ka-val-ree, not kal-va-ree. Cavalry are horse soldiers; Calvary is a biblical location.

Isn't this a NFA firearm

@johnzx6r

11 ай бұрын

No. Even though it is newly manufactured, it is still just a black powder muzzle-loader, so the ATF classifies it as an "antique", and it doesn't fall within the NFA restrictions.

@pde2619

11 ай бұрын

Yes in Illinois.

@hazcat640

11 ай бұрын

@@pde2619 Even in Illinois it is not an NFA item. It is restricted by Illinois but it is not National Firearms Act restricted.

@pde2619

11 ай бұрын

@@hazcat640 Really? I always assumed that since IL makes no exemption for black powder firearms as “antiques” or otherwise that they have to follow the rules of the NFA. The rules here are very confusing.

@hazcat640

11 ай бұрын

@@pde2619 Yep, really. You can take a BP shotgun and cut the barrels at 5 inches if you want. Saw the stack down to. There is no barrel length limit or overall length limit on BP guns.

At close range, these would be Devastating 😲 But you only get 2 shot's, and then it takes 5 minutes to reload ✝️🇺🇸🤨 Not very practical 🤔

@johnzx6r

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, that's why you have to carry a couple of revolvers with you, as well!

@davidkermes376

19 күн бұрын

carry two reload with paper cartridges. .the smoke gives concealment while you load.

"Cavalry," not "Calvary." Cavalry are soldiers on horseback, Calvary is where Jesus was crucified.

they also used slugs or buck n ball, i think bore is .5 or .6 something

What happened to the rule that you NEVER pointed a firearm at anyone....even in an advertisement?

Nice

@johnzx6r

10 ай бұрын

👍