The Patristics: What the Church Fathers Believe about Spiritual Gifts

This is episode Josh Hoffert comes on the show to unpack what the patristics(ChurchFathers) believed about Spiritual Gifts. There is so much debate about what the scriptures say concerning spiritual gifts. There are arguments for and against the continuation of these gifts many rooted in language, tradition, and scriptural context. One aspect of these complex arguments is rooted in church history. What did the early Church believe about spiritual gifts? In this series, Josh Hoffert does an amazing job of collecting quotes and teachings from the early church fathers concerning spiritual gifts.
We had a lot of fun filming this series, we hope you all enjoy.
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Josh Lewis' Church Kings Fellowship Church
kingsfellowshipchurch.com/
___________________________________________________________________________________
Michael Miller's Church Reclamation Church
reclamationdenver.com/
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Пікірлер: 95

  • @ayushlal6971
    @ayushlal69714 жыл бұрын

    Thank you for making this series

  • @caisejones1686
    @caisejones16863 жыл бұрын

    As an Orthodox I'm excited to see more protestants like I was reading the Holy Fathers. Their writings and councils in the Holy Spirit enlighten the Scriptures and teach us the faith they received. So much confusion exists because of neglecting God's Saints.

  • @ussconductor5433

    @ussconductor5433

    Жыл бұрын

    I know it’s been over a year since you posted this, but as a Protestant- I FULLY AGREE. We become far too narrow minded on understanding not just scripture, but Church as a historical body as well…

  • @MB-pf7gv
    @MB-pf7gv3 жыл бұрын

    As an Orthodox Christian, this series delights me. 🤗

  • @barneyroberts668
    @barneyroberts6684 жыл бұрын

    Spot on, thank God that he didn't leave us comfortless or as orphans.

  • @dustinbishop7297
    @dustinbishop72972 жыл бұрын

    I do not disagree with the content of the video. But was definitely let down by the title. I was expecting more Patristic father quotes, writings and teachings. And all I heard from the patristic sources was Ignatius. The title would be better called "A brief Biblical defense for continuation, with quotes from Ignatius and Aquinas. Still a good video I just was looking for more In depth discussion on Apostolic and patristic Era Father's views on continuation or cessation, while I'm building a deck

  • @kalabalakrishnan1484
    @kalabalakrishnan14844 жыл бұрын

    Shalom. Spiritual gifts are just icing on the cake. Listen, listen, to the cries of Heavenly Father n Yeshua in the bible.

  • @flymrjones
    @flymrjones3 жыл бұрын

    Spot on. The truth can’t be held back by men’s own theology and what they don’t like about scriptural truths.

  • @juanaviles7164
    @juanaviles7164 Жыл бұрын

    Awesome teaching, I cannot comprehend how some Christians are confused on such clear subject UNTILL

  • @melanieanderson7166
    @melanieanderson71664 жыл бұрын

    Really like this video. Very encouraging and motivating to grow closer.

  • @barelyprotestant5365
    @barelyprotestant53654 жыл бұрын

    Wonderful talk!

  • @macksonamission1784
    @macksonamission17844 жыл бұрын

    The website says the series was slated for February, but it doesn't look like it's up yet. Is there a new ETA?

  • @FishersofTheRemnant
    @FishersofTheRemnant4 жыл бұрын

    I experience this and it is true.

  • @ashtonlambert7673
    @ashtonlambert7673 Жыл бұрын

    i love this

  • @Alwizcaliteach
    @Alwizcaliteach4 жыл бұрын

    Appreciate all this good information, thank you. I don't get why all speakers are now taught to speak as though they are excited all the time. It takes too much energy to listen to for extended periods of time and is unnatural. My daughter has a PhD in physics and occasionally called on to do speeches. Her UC at one point called in a top speech coach and gave the six best speakers a one on one lesson; so she has been taught the same enthusiastic way.

  • @Wrightinottaw

    @Wrightinottaw

    4 жыл бұрын

    I didn't understand what you meant until 4 min. I had to pause for a bit.

  • @sonnybrown4758
    @sonnybrown47584 жыл бұрын

    Wow. Dude is intense.

  • @Gracenglory5
    @Gracenglory54 жыл бұрын

    I have been researching the didache and it’s spotty at best. It was written prior to Ignatious. Do you have any information to share on this? Thank you!!

  • @albusai

    @albusai

    4 жыл бұрын

    They are not scripture, good but not scripture, baptism is dunking, if we are goin to do it might as well do it biblical way , or not at all ,

  • @Gracenglory5

    @Gracenglory5

    4 жыл бұрын

    Joshua Hoffert thanks!

  • @jansongunn4214
    @jansongunn42143 жыл бұрын

    I can’t seem to find this series?

  • @RyanVeghOfficial

    @RyanVeghOfficial

    2 жыл бұрын

    Me, either!

  • @RyanVeghOfficial
    @RyanVeghOfficial2 жыл бұрын

    Where is the rest of this series?

  • @royalty3539

    @royalty3539

    Жыл бұрын

    Have you found other parts yet?

  • @ChaplainPeter1
    @ChaplainPeter13 жыл бұрын

    Thank you for your faithfulness to God's word. There is one thing that is not correct. Knowledge of course does not vanish, but the Gift of knowledge. 1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. Please note that he does not say Gift of tongues. People will still communicate in heaven, but it is the Gift he speaks of concerning tongues. So it is with Knowledge. God bless.

  • @1989pfrost
    @1989pfrost Жыл бұрын

    Chrysostum wrote that the charismatic gifts had ceased king before his time in the year 400

  • @bigtobacco1098
    @bigtobacco10985 ай бұрын

    What did Chrysostom say ??

  • @bigtobacco1098
    @bigtobacco10988 ай бұрын

    What should we add to the Bible ??

  • @gloryman3634
    @gloryman36342 жыл бұрын

    I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit but have been listening to a preacher who is a "secessionist" and so I had a question in my heart. Not long after, I saw a kind of vision! Yes! A vision. Before me was a person's finger and then I had an impression that went somewhat like this. "If a person gets a cut on their finger does it remain forever? Well no....the cut "heals." And if the cut is severe and requires stitches, even after this severe cut and stitches, the "cut still heals!" An example...years ago my best friend, who taught me to play guitar in my teens, had a small furniture repair business. Occasionally, he had to use a band saw to make a repair and by accident sawed a 3/4 inch portion off the end of his left index finger! He took the piece of finger wrapped in cloth to local emergency and the doctor sewed back-on with the request..."Please angle it forward so I can still play guitar."...It healed! and he still played his guitar until he passed away! Fact... unless their is very some unusual physical impediment...everyone in the world who gets a cut or is severely injured receives "healing" to this very day! Apparently, our Father is not a secessionist!! Doesn't even show respect to humanity inside or outside the church! To the secessionist..."Did God sin by healing my friend's finger or does he sin by healing anyone in the world today?" "I am Yahweh rapha." The LORD who heals you.

  • @paulsutton5951

    @paulsutton5951

    11 ай бұрын

    Why do you think God would give you a vision showing you healing that is already covered in the Bible? I've never had a dream or vision that I would attribute to God but then again I read my Bible daily and it is sufficient for everything I need. I can't imagine craving dreams or visions and insulting God by telling him " your word isn't enough I need sings and visions " YIKES....good luck with that

  • @tomtemple69

    @tomtemple69

    9 ай бұрын

    no one denies that miraculous healings are real

  • @gaah451
    @gaah4513 ай бұрын

    Where can I find the rest of the series?

  • @TheRemnantRadio

    @TheRemnantRadio

    3 ай бұрын

    kzread.info/head/PLMsjeViSScFH3Vu1Dh4J6QMJNqrIrUFdH&si=YS5YhfYM77dquAXL

  • @gaah451

    @gaah451

    3 ай бұрын

    @@TheRemnantRadio thank you so much!

  • @matthewbroderick6287
    @matthewbroderick6287 Жыл бұрын

    Many of the Church Fathers taught that Mary was free from sin and a pure dwelling place for the Most High! Peace always in the Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ is True Food and drink

  • @P.H.888

    @P.H.888

    Жыл бұрын

    Mary own song declared God as her Saviour! HE made her righteous and dealt with her Sin. ✝️ JESUS CHRIST IS DIVINE ~ HE uses The Bread & Wine as symbols to represent HIS flesh and blood 🥖🍷 We are to be baptised with THE 🕊HOLY SPIRIT 🔥 Led in thoughts words deeds

  • @matthewbroderick6287

    @matthewbroderick6287

    Жыл бұрын

    @@P.H.888 The Archangel Gabriel saluted Mary as being full of grace, even before baptism which removes sin, she the foretold woman in Genesis at emnity with Satan, as Mary was saved from sin by God's grace to be His worthy dwelling place! Jesus Christ teaches the bread, WHEN BLESSED, "is My Body ". Fallible Protestants add the words Symbol and represents to the words of Jesus Christ. You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is true food and Blood true drink

  • @lufhopespeacefully2037

    @lufhopespeacefully2037

    10 ай бұрын

    Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?peace,

  • @matthewbroderick6287

    @matthewbroderick6287

    10 ай бұрын

    @lufhopespeacefully2037 You bear false witness, as the Trinity is found in both the old and new testament, unless of course, someone other than God is Lord of the Sabbath and Greater than the Temple and the Author of Life and the foretold Redeemer? Peace

  • @lufhopespeacefully2037

    @lufhopespeacefully2037

    10 ай бұрын

    @@matthewbroderick6287 ,take it easy mat,okee dokee jo,,let us speak friendly in a methodology manner & follow syllogism, logical reasoning to get out the truth,Once you start reading the Hebrew and Greek, and you see what massive leaps any "translation" of the bible takes to hop into English, I understood how bent out of shape conservative "translation committees" have become in order to keep the accessible bible leaned heavily toward their aims, goals and power structures,the tomb was discovered by different witnesses on four different occasions, so it is in fact impossible to argue that the discrepancies were introduced by different witnesses of the one event; rather, they can be explained as four different redactions for apologetic and kerygmatic reasons of a single story originating from one source. Matthew wrote.. the risen Jesus met the disciples only on a mountain in Galilee, but Luke says.. he met them at a meal in Jerusalem on the very evening of his resurrection, after which he took them on the road to Bethany, where he rose bodily to heaven. Meanwhile, John’s was loosely based on Luke but contains elaborations of Luke’s account, including two meals in Jerusalem and a later meeting by the Sea of Galilee. Mark originally ended his story at verse 16:8, with no evidence of the risen Jesus.. scholars have concurred that the ‘Long Ending’ verses 16:9-20, which corrobate somewhat with Luke’s account, was added much later. Even for the birth of Jesus, there are contradictory accounts.. Luke's infancy narrative is not only massively different from Matt's, but also in details, e.g., about Joseph and Mary's home (in Bethlehem in Matt 2:11; in Nazareth in Luke 2:4-7, with no home in Bethlehem) and about their travels after the birth of Jesus (to Egypt in Matt 2:14; to Jerusalem and Nazareth in Luke 2:22,39)Let us be neutral and look at this objectively, without Bias and without any racism. Without pre-conceptions. Completely neutral with our intellectual cup the right side up, because if it was upside down, nothing, no matter how profound, will go into the intellectual cup. Question: Did you ever question yourself that the Gospels by Mark, Luke, Matthew, and John have no last names? In court or in your passport or driving license, do you not have your last name? How valid is a document without any last name to give it validity? Second: Jesus spoke Aramaic. The name for God in Aramaic is Elah. Please look it up. Muslims say Allah. Third: Did the mother of Jesus or Jesus himself claim he is god or the son of god? Fourth: Muslims love Jesus and Mother Mary more than lip-service Christians. Why? Muslims keep a beard and they prostrate in praying to One God Almighty as Jesus did. Muslim women wear a head-cover called hijab like Mother Mary. They do not eat pork like just like Mother Mary or Jesus. Fifth: If Christians claim that you will only be saved if you believe in Jesus, them what about other prophets like Moses and Abraham and Jacob and Job, and other good people before Jesus was born? Will they go to hell? Certainly not. Bible in its original form must have been profound. It still has many, many good lessons. But it has been tampered with,.no orginals for manuscripts that`s what priests had admitted in addition many scholars including bart ehrman who was orginally christian,the original bible should be written in an aramic which is is basic language of jesus,jesus never bring the bible,the authors of bibles never contemporary to jesus,nomenclature of bibles by authors means bible is man made,how often does bible revised,peace,hope i helped,please read first before it`s too late&don`t biased to catechism,u are a christian because jesus gonna holds up your sins which not even written bible exactly like trinity,about time to know the truth.peace

  • @danielfinn9460
    @danielfinn94604 жыл бұрын

    This video barely addressed the topic in the title. Your examples from the church fathers are few and debatable. Ignatius spoke spiritual truth. That isn't prophesy in the same sense as when Elijah or Agabus predicted droughts. Also, the quote from Thomas Aquinas is clearly an historical reference to the apostolic age. Your reference to Augustine was so quick that I didn't even catch what he's supposed to have said. I'm assuming these are your strongest examples? Obviously, the spiritual gifts were practiced in the apostolic age. The controversial question is whether the practice of speaking in tongues happened anywhere in church history after the apostolic age and before the Azuza St. revival in 1908. If there were any evidence showing that the answer is "yes," then certainly one of these enthusiasts would have found it by now.

  • @danielfinn9460

    @danielfinn9460

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@JoshHoffert Thanks for your gracious reply.

  • @glendagaskin151
    @glendagaskin15111 ай бұрын

    What about Wolcott and Hort

  • @lufhopespeacefully2037

    @lufhopespeacefully2037

    10 ай бұрын

    Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?peace,

  • @Jacobjoyemusic
    @Jacobjoyemusic Жыл бұрын

    What about tongues?

  • @lieutenant-uj2fm

    @lieutenant-uj2fm

    Жыл бұрын

    The Church Fathers teach that the speaking in tongues simply meant they spoke the language of whoever they were talking to.

  • @kittykat632
    @kittykat6324 жыл бұрын

    What I would like is a clearer understanding of what exactly this man means by prophecy and prophesying. For there can be no new revelation it's all recorded it's already completed.

  • @erics7004

    @erics7004

    4 жыл бұрын

    Prophecy is a specific message from God to a specific person or audience, it's not something universal like the Bible. It's like when God reveals to a pastor things about someone. It's specific about that person but not to the whole church.

  • @kittykat632

    @kittykat632

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@erics7004 so how would one be able to testify if that person such as that Pastor is a true or false prophet?

  • @erics7004

    @erics7004

    4 жыл бұрын

    If what they said is true. The Bible affirms that false prophets prophecizes about things that never happened. If it doesn't happened, so they're false.

  • @kittykat632

    @kittykat632

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@erics7004 sorry yt hasn't been notifying me when I receive comments so I have to go back and check them from time to time. I'm very interested in the rest of the series so they can better explain.

  • @kittykat632

    @kittykat632

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@JoshHoffert thanks for letting me know Joshua I do know that the Bible when a prophecy was given was very rarely a private thing so there were many witnesses to a prophecy and it was easily able to know if one was a true Prophet or not.

  • @lingsuyen9509
    @lingsuyen9509 Жыл бұрын

    The Patristic Fathers were CATHOLIC

  • @heresyhunters
    @heresyhunters3 жыл бұрын

    There are some nuggets of decent arguments here, but the vast majority of statements here are just non sequiturs. Passionate non sequiturs, but non sequiturs nonetheless. I'd rather seem him debate someone so he'd get to his actual core arguments instead of sophistically grandstand. I especially take issue with his characterization of cessationism as originated in Enlightenment thought. While I'll grant that perhaps that's true for some, the major stream of cessationists, the Reformed, originate far earlier than the Enlightenment..

  • @jimmycampbell6232
    @jimmycampbell62323 жыл бұрын

    Spiritual gifts was given by the laying on of the apostles hands only. For the edification of the church.

  • @Travis_Marshall

    @Travis_Marshall

    3 жыл бұрын

    Where did you read that spiritual gifts ONLY come by the laying on of the apostles hands?

  • @jimmycampbell6232

    @jimmycampbell6232

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@Travis_Marshall that's the only way they were givin. New Testament Holy Bible. I use King James.

  • @jimmycampbell6232

    @jimmycampbell6232

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@Travis_Marshall If you know of others I'd love to read and study it.

  • @Travis_Marshall

    @Travis_Marshall

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@jimmycampbell6232 The Bible says to desire Spiritual gifts. I just don't want you to discourage Christians who are desiring Spiritual gifts by telling them that. It doesn't say that thats the only way to receive.

  • @jimmycampbell6232

    @jimmycampbell6232

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@Travis_Marshall Sir, spiritual gifts where givin by the laying on of the hands by the Apostles for the Edification of the Church. After the Apostles doled there were no spiritual gifts givin for only the Apostles were givin the Ability to do so. But its written all things are possible with God. To test the spirits , so if you see some one clam to have these gifts then my advice would be to test them. The only other one able to do miracles of such things I've read in the Bible is the Antichrist , when he receives many. God Bless good luck!

  • @evangellyfishlife8479
    @evangellyfishlife84793 жыл бұрын

    I have had several visions from the Holy Spirit, I’m not sure how I go about adding these chapters to the Bible but they need to be part of holy scripture

  • @sergiovillamil3710

    @sergiovillamil3710

    3 жыл бұрын

    No. I don't doubt your vision, but that's for your own edification and growth in your path woth God, but the canon of The Bible is closed.

  • @tamaraannanderson391

    @tamaraannanderson391

    3 жыл бұрын

    The biblical Canon is closed. We are not to add or take away from scripture

  • @eulldog

    @eulldog

    Жыл бұрын

    People have added and removed stuff over the centuries, the bible is full of transcription errors and mistranslations - go ahead and paste in your own chapter

  • @P.H.888

    @P.H.888

    Жыл бұрын

    THE BOOK OF REVELATION OF ✝️JESUS CHRIST 🕊 HE IS BACK IN HEAVEN ENTHRONED 👑 THE HOLY SPIRIT HERE ON EARTH CONVICTS PEOPLE OF OUR NEEDS OF JESUS SALVATION ✝️

  • @corbinmcnabb
    @corbinmcnabb11 ай бұрын

    The so called bible believers who claim the gifts ended, if they use scripture at all, abuse the context in ways that would never be tolerated on any other doctrine.

  • @citizen8969
    @citizen89693 жыл бұрын

    For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. -2 Peter 1:21 Prophecy sometimes comes upon us, but we aren't to seek it out

  • @akshayd5360

    @akshayd5360

    3 жыл бұрын

    Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. I Corinthians 14:1 NKJV

  • @ceruleanc505
    @ceruleanc5054 жыл бұрын

    "Traditions of men". Look it up in the Bible and see what GOD YHWH thinks about it!

  • @mrmcface713

    @mrmcface713

    Жыл бұрын

    2 Thessalonians 2:15

  • @GreekOrthodox7
    @GreekOrthodox7 Жыл бұрын

    Wish you didn’t include heretics like Aquinas here.

  • @lufhopespeacefully2037

    @lufhopespeacefully2037

    10 ай бұрын

    Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?peace,

  • @kenshiloh
    @kenshiloh Жыл бұрын

    The Bible encourages everyone to work out their salvation with 'fear and trembling' knowing that all liars will have their place in the lake of fire. Soberingly, Jesus also said that many will try to enter heaven, but only a few will make it, only a few! The question is, how do you know that you are among the few? Jesus said, "Whoever believes in Me..." Let's stop right there. If you want assurance of eternal life, pray that you do not miss this! The difference between heaven and hell is found in these next words! Referring to the Holy Spirit, Jesus said, "Whoever believes in Me shall have rivers of living water bubbling up inside of him (John 7.38)." Do you know the Holy Spirit? Does the Holy Spirit bear witness with your spirit that you are a child of God (Romans 8.16)? If you do not know the Lord, you will spend all of forever in torment beyond your worst nightmare. There are prisons on earth where people are being brutally tortured and those in hell wish they could go there! Christ died on a Cross so that, just by asking, we may know Him. The Bible states that if you want eternal life, ask God for a hunger to read the Bible and for understanding of what you read. Does John 7.38 apply to you or will the Lord say to you, on that great and terrible day, "Depart from me; I never KNEW you"? If you want eternal life, do not place your trust in a church, a pastor, or even your own opinion. As it is written, "If you lack wisdom, ask of the Father." Jesus Christ is the light of the world

  • @lufhopespeacefully2037

    @lufhopespeacefully2037

    10 ай бұрын

    Why does the Trinity not appear in the Bible?peace,

  • @kenshiloh

    @kenshiloh

    10 ай бұрын

    @@lufhopespeacefully2037 Just this past Sunday, the preacher at my church talked about Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox. My take on his sermon was that it is like the game of 'Telephone,' where a message gets garbled as it is passed along. That is, I look at the Word of God. I do not identify as a Protestant, but as a disciple of Christ - according to what Jesus and the rest of the Bible said. The first order of business is, who can I trust to lead me into all the truth? My options are to trust my own understanding, to trust others (say, a father, the pope, or a priest), or to do what Jesus said: "Call no man teacher, for you have one teacher, even God." He said, "The Holy Spirit will lead you into all the truth." The Bible also says, "If anyone of you lacks wisdom, ask the Pope"??? No! We are to ask of the Father, who will give us wisdom generously. Paul wrote that if anyone preaches a different gospel they should be accursed. I read the Bible, trusting the Holy Spirit to teach me from the Word. If you are trusting others, remember the words of Christ, "Shall the blind lead the blind? I tell you that both shall fall into a ditch." That 'ditch' is eternal hell with untold suffering. I do not want you to go there! Christ died on a Cross so that He may be our Lord, our friend, our teacher! Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

  • @lufhopespeacefully2037

    @lufhopespeacefully2037

    10 ай бұрын

    @@kenshiloh ,let us speak friendly in a methodology manner & follow syllogism, logical reasoning to get out the truth,Once you start reading the Hebrew and Greek, and you see what massive leaps any "translation" of the bible takes to hop into English, I understood how bent out of shape conservative "translation committees" have become in order to keep the accessible bible leaned heavily toward their aims, goals and power structures,the tomb was discovered by different witnesses on four different occasions, so it is in fact impossible to argue that the discrepancies were introduced by different witnesses of the one event; rather, they can be explained as four different redactions for apologetic and kerygmatic reasons of a single story originating from one source. Matthew wrote.. the risen Jesus met the disciples only on a mountain in Galilee, but Luke says.. he met them at a meal in Jerusalem on the very evening of his resurrection, after which he took them on the road to Bethany, where he rose bodily to heaven. Meanwhile, John’s was loosely based on Luke but contains elaborations of Luke’s account, including two meals in Jerusalem and a later meeting by the Sea of Galilee. Mark originally ended his story at verse 16:8, with no evidence of the risen Jesus.. scholars have concurred that the ‘Long Ending’ verses 16:9-20, which corrobate somewhat with Luke’s account, was added much later. Even for the birth of Jesus, there are contradictory accounts.. Luke's infancy narrative is not only massively different from Matt's, but also in details, e.g., about Joseph and Mary's home (in Bethlehem in Matt 2:11; in Nazareth in Luke 2:4-7, with no home in Bethlehem) and about their travels after the birth of Jesus (to Egypt in Matt 2:14; to Jerusalem and Nazareth in Luke 2:22,39)Let us be neutral and look at this objectively, without Bias and without any racism. Without pre-conceptions. Completely neutral with our intellectual cup the right side up, because if it was upside down, nothing, no matter how profound, will go into the intellectual cup. Question: Did you ever question yourself that the Gospels by Mark, Luke, Matthew, and John have no last names? In court or in your passport or driving license, do you not have your last name? How valid is a document without any last name to give it validity? Second: Jesus spoke Aramaic. The name for God in Aramaic is Elah. Please look it up. Muslims say Allah. Third: Did the mother of Jesus or Jesus himself claim he is god or the son of god? Fourth: Muslims love Jesus and Mother Mary more than lip-service Christians. Why? Muslims keep a beard and they prostrate in praying to One God Almighty as Jesus did. Muslim women wear a head-cover called hijab like Mother Mary. They do not eat pork like just like Mother Mary or Jesus. Fifth: If Christians claim that you will only be saved if you believe in Jesus, them what about other prophets like Moses and Abraham and Jacob and Job, and other good people before Jesus was born? Will they go to hell? Certainly not. Bible in its original form must have been profound. It still has many, many good lessons. But it has been tampered with,.no orginals for manuscripts that`s what priests had admitted in addition many scholars including bart ehrman who was orginally christian,the original bible should be written in an aramic which is is basic language of jesus,jesus never bring the bible,the authors of bibles never contemporary to jesus,nomenclature of bibles by authors means bible is man made,how often does bible revised,peace,hope i helped,please read first before it`s too late&don`t biased to catechism,u are a christian because jesus gonna holds up your sins which not even written bible exactly like trinity,about time to know the truth

  • @kenshiloh

    @kenshiloh

    10 ай бұрын

    @@lufhopespeacefully2037 It would be helpful if you would give exact quotes, as you are really trampling the details of what occurred. For example, where did Matthew say that "only" met on a mountain in Galilee? Secondly, are you pointing out different events as if they were contradictory? For example, if an author does not mentions Bethlehem or Nazareth, that is not contradictory. It would be a contradiction, for example, if Matthew claimed that Christ never lived in Nazereth. Moreover, are you claiming that no last names makes the gospels invalid because last names are needed on passports? If I told you that I have an older brother and sign this post with only my first name, does that make my assertion invalid? Here is the bottom line: is there such a thing as good and evil? I maintain that, though raised by an atheist, I knew what my dad taught me was false. It is my God-given conscience. Have you ever lied or stolen anything? If so, then your conscience condemns you. There is a moral law and if there is a moral law, there is a moral law Giver. If God is the moral authority of the universe, then you are in big trouble, as you have no doubt lied, stolen, disrespected God, etc. You will live forever. You are an immortal soul. Yet, if you stand before God in your sins, then you are not fit for heaven, but to be cast outside with other lying thieves. Hell is torment and it lasts forever. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that, if you will humble yourself, stop acting like you know things you don't really know, then you can know Christ and have eternal life. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

  • @lufhopespeacefully2037

    @lufhopespeacefully2037

    10 ай бұрын

    @@kenshiloh ,that`s great ,jesus is the main central figure of bible,didn`t agree with me we have find a bible with his name,where does jesus talked about trinity,please answer me to have a healthy conversation,peace man.

  • @mastergunzz
    @mastergunzz3 жыл бұрын

    U guys are way off the mark here.

  • @mrmcface713

    @mrmcface713

    Жыл бұрын

    No they aren't