Has Return to Monkey Island finally cleared up all the confusion? Here's my take after finishing Ron's new game: kzread.info/dash/bejne/moCXuaOHkt2acZM.html

Mind blown I love it! Reminds me of the Mass Effect indoctrination theory. I wish this was more fleshed out. Some notes: - Parents murdered/accidentally killed on one of the rides, Guybrush abandoned / left alone wandering in the theme park and ultimately ending up in the foster system makes total sense. If he witnessed the death of his parents at a young age he may not have been able to process it, and the theme park imagery could hold dread significance for him all his life. - The memories could be too repressed or painful and he has to revisit them under the guise of an innocent pirate adventure to help deal. - Elaine represents closure and peace of mind for Guybrush. The ultimate "treasure" he and his therapist the voodoo lady seek. He sees Elaine's poster at the start of his journey, " re-elect Elaine Marley" ie, "choose/vote to be happy again" and endlessly pursues and tries to obtain her throughout the whole story. - Lechuck represents his painful memories and damaged psyche. Given the form of his mean older step-brother Chuckie who bullied him. Lechuck being a ghost is significant - the pain and repressed memories are "haunting" Guybrush. - Lechuck repeatedly stands in the way of Guybrush and Elaine's "happiness". Guybrush cannot be happy until he expels Lechuck and gets closure. - The blind lookout tells Guybrush how to get started. The 3 trials. His blindness is significant. A lookout is a type of guard. If he is blind he cannot guard, symbolizing he is "letting his guard down" and allowing Guybrush entry into the world of his pain and repressed memories. - The 3 trials are exercises the therapist does with Guybrush to help him. Master the sword - become strong / to help him realize he is strong enough to "defeat" his childhood trauma. Master treasure hunting / learn to read maps, apply logic and shine the light of reason on your illogical fears. Master thievery / it is significant that Elaine possesses the treasure he must steal. She is his happy ending. Through working with the therapist Guybrush is able to see some results and hold a tangible piece of his happy ending early on, which causes him to fall in love with Elaine and have hope. That love keeps him going through all of the choppy waters ahead. - Notice this is where Lechuck chooses to interfere. This part of Guybrush's psyche felt immediately threatened when Guybrush began his attempt to expel it and get closure. It responded lightly at first, hoping to rely on trickery to divert a weak Guybrush away from Elaine (sheriff disguise). But once Guybrush touched the idol, connected with Elaine and became stronger, Lechuck's gloves came off. He kidnapped her, revealed himself to be the villain in Guybrush's story and responds with deadly violence whenever Guybrush catches up to him. - In the end Guybrush defeats Lechuck with his therapist's help and lives happily ever after with Elaine, or at least so he thinks. - In game 2 he starts out much happier, he is wealthy and appears to be living a good life. But notice how Elaine is gone. And notice how the first words out of his mouth are "Lechuck". He is telling his story of how he defeated Lechuck, ie overcame his baggage and found closure. This is significant. He talks about Lechuck so much that his friends are bored of hearing about it, which they point out. Guybrush didn't get closure. The idea of Lechuck still holds power over him. He didn't defeat it, he just somehow repressed it more and won a hollow victory. - Further evidence of this is the fact that Guybrush kept Lechuck's beard. He kept a piece of Lechuck alive. He can't "let it go". - Deep down he knows this. That thought bugs him and is personified in the character of Largo Legrande. Soon enough this idea robs Guybrush of his wealth and happiness, and puts him back where he started in game 1, where again he enlists his therapist's help once again to expel his inner demons and pursue closure. - This time Guybrush's happy ending is symbolized not by Elaine, but by Big Whoop, the "greatest treasure ever". I think this is Guybrush thinking "well what we did the first time didn't work, let's try something new". Big Whoop is a "big nothing" according to Ron Gilbert. It's a wild goose chase. Guybrush doubts his ability to find true closure and is after a gimmick cure. Questing for the scattered map pieces is symbolic of Guybrush being lost, and having no real idea how to get his closure. Doesn't Elaine say her and Guybrush drifted apart because he treated her badly or ignored her or something? He wasn't able to let Lechuck go and fully possess his closure and happiness, so he lost her. - Notice Lechuck is a rotting zombie corpse in this game. A fitting description for a "long buried and repressed trauma" that is literally "back from the dead" to haunt Guybrush one more time. - Notice Elaine re-enters the picture as Guybrush starts piecing the map together (finding his way). And she shows up at the end again to help him in his moment of need before he goes down to confront Lechuck. - In the end Guybrush pieces the map together and it leads him back to the painful memories of his trauma. His dead parents. The amusement park. And a final showdown with Lechuck. - He comes close to defeating him, but falls for Lechuck's trickery again (showing his weakened mental state - in contrast to the first game), and Guybrush spares Lechuck's life. Instead of emerging triumphant and living happily ever after with Elaine, he is transformed into a little boy (reverting back to a weak and helpless state) and his reality is distorted (his mind becomes further unhinged). He can no longer tell what is real. His parents come back to life and for a second you want to believe everything is ok, but deep down you know it's not. Guybrush is in danger. He needs help. And the kid with the red glowing eyes cracks a smile and his eyes pulse with dark voodoo magic, showing you how powerful he has become.

@YubasaMcNamara

7 жыл бұрын

wow, that was cool, man, respect!

@VintageTechFan

2 жыл бұрын

I know the video is 11 years old and this comment 4 years .. but in one interview Ron Gilbert said about Chuckie: "They are brothers, but they are also not" or something like that.

@andygeers

2 жыл бұрын

@@VintageTechFan Personally I think at most they could be half-brothers, as explained around the 3:25 mark in this video. So that could fit with the "they are but they are also not"

@VintageTechFan

2 жыл бұрын

@@andygeers Well, if all wents well we will know before the year ends. I'm excited.

@GuybrushSheepgood

2 жыл бұрын

Read your comment twice. Amazing analysis. If all of this is true, this is an incredibly well written game.

ThreepWOOD... LeCHUCK....WOODCHUCK....what? I'm tripping balls, man.

@Wurfenkopf

6 жыл бұрын

DDDD:::::::

@Alegost1

6 жыл бұрын

so a woodchuck would "CHUCK" "THREE" "P"alm "WOOD"s ?

@neocolors

Жыл бұрын

Mind blown!

I found the secret of monkey island and all I got was this lousy t-shirt

@MrYourtoaster

Жыл бұрын

I hope you’ve played Return to Monkey Island

In and interview with Ron Gilbert posted online, Gilbert said "The third game in my head was always that Guybrush would go to hell AND, you know, the demon pirate LeChuck would be down there, and he would be doing a lot of what he would be doing in-you know-hell. And that's-that's something telltale had done, you know, with the Tales Of Monkey Island games, completely independent of what I was thinking of." He then went on to state that this was merely the "broad strokes" version of MI3. After the second game was wrapping up, Gilbert did contact Lucasarts about doing the third game completing his Monkey Island trilogy, and there were people interested, but then "it just ended". When it "just ended" and Gilbert was unable to make Monkey Island 3, he left Lucasarts.

Gilbert and Grossman seem to have re-framed the ending of the second game (to reflect the passage of time for both game designers and the players). And I can't remember a single reference to Guybrush's family in 'Return To...'. It's unsatisfying and (unless I've missed something subtle or multiple levels) makes me wish Gilbert had stayed long enough at Lucasfilm Games to produce that third game in the early 1990's.

@andygeers

Жыл бұрын

The in between games introduced so many changes that ruled out alternative outcomes. eg even the fact that Guybrush and Elaine are married is post-Gilbert. But also Escape claimed that Herman Toothrot was Elaine’s grandfather (a concept COMPLETELY ignored in Return). Ron has always said that he could never make the game he would have done now… so I agree, makes me want to know how it would have gone differently had it happened earlier

Andy Geers: And, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? LeChuck (from LeChuck’s Revenge): Five cords.

Great video, man. I like the analysis. I share mines. From a psychoanalysis point view. This adventure symbolizes two brothers going through the Oedipus Complex, and the declination of it. Both characters fight for the love of a woman, It´s a love triad where both characters are in love with the same woman, their mother, represented by Elaine. Elaine isn´t just an ordinary woman, she´s a governor (not a minor detail). She makes and execute the rules. Elaine occupies a position of power in this triad. The mother is the very first object of love of a child. Elaine works as a symbolic mother and both of the characters fight for their love. In the Oedipus triad the phallic element circulates between characters. But to Guybrush, Lechuck´s is the phallic element itself. An older brother may look omnipotent, superior, and even scary. Here is represented by an ominous pirate who´s been back from the dead. The one who went into the sea to prove his might and love to Elaine, and died trying. Although, his ghost keeps around, getting in the middle between not only Guybrush but the entire island from Elaine, meaning… Lechuck´s has a fixation with his mother! ¿What can we read from Lechuck being a ghost, who couldn´t obtained Elaine´s love but continues to live as a ghost? That very same. Castration, the law of incest, and the remaining unconscious desires towards their parents. Yes, yes. I know, but… ¡Search your feelings, you know it to be true! As soon Guybrush arrives into the Scumm bar, he dialogues with a pirate who reveals to him that Lechuck went into the Governor´s house, and was thrown out from there, as a metaphor of the incest law. After that, Lechuck went into the sea to obtain the secret of monkey island, a reaction to the rejection and frustration for being rejected, and the execution of the law. The exit the of Oedipus complex leaves marks in our psyche, they remain unconscious in ourselves. Guybrush is the younger brother, and he´s right into the Oedipus complex, he´s not ready to leave his mother as a love object, but rather does anything he can to win her love, and fight the competition. Elaine put it very clear that Guybrush is his favorite. At in the end of The Secret of Monkey Island, we can see that they are together, as mother and child, like a narcissistic union between the two. Guybrush is alienated into his mother, like the Lacanian concept explains. Ron Gilbert said in a interview that he doesn´t agree that Guyrbrush had married Elaine. In the second game, we can see that Elaine´s has another role, she´s no longer the element where the story gravitates, instead the macguffin is the “Big Whoop”. As a displacement of the element of importance, we can see that, in a option of dialogue line with Elaine, Guybrush mention other women. This time, Elaine, has another role, she´s not central to the story, but peripheric. We see that the second game starts with Guybrush hanging of a rope and holding a chest, not willing to let go. Elaine descends and ask what happened. It´s like when you are a teenager and almost an adult but you continue to get into trouble and your mother has to step in for you and keep looking out for you. Continuing with this line of interpretation, I think that the treasure means or symbolizes sexuality, the encounter with the other. Therefore, we can see Guybrush and Lechuck´s parent dead over the emergency room, as they are no longer objects of desire to them, in a erotic configuration. Now, the crusade goes in the search of the Big Whoop, who happens to be a ticket for an amusement park… come on, man! Didn´t get the idea yet? So, in the ending both of the character obeys their figures of authority, their parents are still in charge, so we can read from that that they are still not grown up´s yet, but older, yes, than in the first game. The thing about this dynamic between reality and fiction it´s because (of course is a thematic idea from R.G., Disney parks, etc.) it’s a creation from the child, to put words into a reality that he doesn´t understand. Who does anyway? That´s a story we fictionize and tell our analysts. The connection with reality, as the phone in the jungle or the workers guys in the park are hints that we are in a reality who has been fictionize in order to place a continuity of experiences that a child is going through. An Oedipus complex phase. To finalize ¿What´s the secret of Monkey Island? Sexuality, the impossible sexual encounter with our parents, and the frustration of it, and marks that this phase leaves in all of us. That´s why the question remains to be unanswered. What´s the Lechuck´s revenge? The exogamic way out of the Oedipus complex. Another woman.

Maybe Guybrush at the end ist kind of "dead"..like kind of a a spell.. And THERE he sees his parents..And heaven looks like a " theme park for him"..The way Ron Gilbert thinks of "heaven"

ahahha that closing like got me good. Good work lol

The secret of monkey island was just the secret lair of LeChuck. It is even said right into the game: "LeChuck's secret base is located on MI, everyone knows that.. don't ask me how.". The ending of MI2 is also literally as it is shown in the game, a spell by LeChuck to trap Guybrush for all eternity matrix style. Ron sort of milked the "secret" part by pretending there actually IS a secret... I am pretty sure even he doesn't know beyond the secret base he intended in the first place..

@jamesc3505

5 жыл бұрын

@Bernhardinski: I just loaded up the game to check this. I think you might be talking about the pirate in the SCUMM bar who's wearing black, and has a glass eye. He said this about LeChuck's death: He tried to impress the Governor by sailing off to find the secret of Monkey Island™. But a mysterious storm came up and sank his ship, leaving no survivors. We thought that was the end of the fearsome pirate LeChuck. We were wrong. If I've got the right piece of dialogue, then I think you might have read more into this than was explicitly stated. To me it doesn't seem to rule out the underground labyrinth itself being the secret.

@mich722

3 жыл бұрын

@-NAC arcane When he falls, he knocks his head, when he wakes up it's like he's in a subconscious world. Even the music gives that feeling.

@Planetdune

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamesc3505 It's the cook that says the line I mentioned. When he is sobbing after LeChuck kidnaps Elaine.

I still want to know where babies come from

Nice job especially on the details. To answer the Woodchuck-Question: 5 cords. Lechuck tells you this when you're hanging above the acid pit. I have made a Playthrough which confirms that.

There is no secret, abit like the "treasure" in the boot of the car in Pulp Fiction. It just keeps people guessing....

How much could a woodchuck chuck if the woodchuck was LECHUCK?

I love when the algorithm throws out old videos like this, especially when they're still entertaining :) I think Guybrush was hanging out at Maniac Mansion and smoked Chuck, not realising he was actually DMT.

@andygeers

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! It's probably I did a remake of this video ahead of the Return to Monkey Island release

@greenhowie

Жыл бұрын

@@andygeers cool I'll check it out haha :)

@andygeers

Жыл бұрын

@@greenhowie Here you go: kzread.info/dash/bejne/rIt7w8xvdZOem9Y.html

The secret is that the rib bone is connected to the leg bone

on and a questino if anyoen can answer me this: what happened to the four map piece owners, i know lechukc reveals it in MI3 but one of them i never understood: rum rogers was electrocuted in his bath tub, marley was sucked into a whirpool in that boat race, rapp was killed in a flash fire cause by lechuck (actually they all were caused by lechuck) but what hapapend to lindey the cabin boy and hwo did his map piece end up in a collectors store?

Perhaps Elaine is also a child wandering the carnival, connecting to Guybrush through his fantasy. I dunno, just spitballing. But I think, had Ron made a third, Guybrush would probably meet the frozen head of the creator of the carnival, which would be totally fine by me XD.

Nice job, I like all the Monkey Island saga, but in my opinion 1, 2 and 3 are the best ones. I recently read that in Ron Gilbert's opinion the story should continue from MI2. However he also said that he played MI3 and he liked it. So in my opinion I would prefer that he consider to continue the story from MI3 ending instead of continuing it from MI2... well, only in case that a MI6 wasn't possible.

I don’t know if we can take for granted that there really is a secret of Monkey Island or that Ron Gilbert knows what it is. Innuendo Studios did an excellent video showing how the first game is a piece of absurdist humour that revels in denying us any deeper meaning. I think Gilbert was probably just trolling us all along. That said, this is an interesting take and a fun way to think about the first two games. I hope something along these lines will be explored in the new game, even if we don’t ever get definitive answers.

@andygeers

Жыл бұрын

But you see, all the questions in this video (eg was LeChuck really Guybrush’s brother? Was Guybrush adopted? What happened to his parents?) are all open questions - regardless of what “the secret of Monkey Island” is or if it even exists. So that’s why I’m so excited about a third *Ron Gilbert* Monkey Island, because only he knows the answers to those things

4:09 "...and white slavers"????? Isn't that how George Lucas called Disney?

Just because they married after he was born downstream it's his step dad,he could just be a bastard

i'm selling these fine leather jackets....

love this video and i love the games

Q: how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood A: a woodchuck could chuck no amount of wood since a woodchuck can't chuck wood Q: But if a woodchuck could chuck and would chuck some amount of wood, what amount of wood would a woodchuck chuck. A: even if a woodchuck could chuck wood, and even if a woodchuck would chuck wood should a woodchuck chuck wood? Q: A woodchuck should chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood, as long as a wood chuck would chuck wood

Best theory yet. Thanks!

Some great ideas here :) thanks really enjoyed watching.

What if the ending to Monkey Island 2 actually takes place BEFORE the game ?

There's one question: Why did Ron Gilbert call the FIRST gane "The Secret of Monkey Island" and not the third? I wonder if that secret really exists...

Very interesting video!

42 cords of wood everyone knows that

Nice perspective on the story.. After Ron Gilbert announced the official successor to Monkey Island 2 I'm curious what are your thoughts about that new game..

@andygeers

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I'm excited for it!

5 cords.

Well done man. Appreciate it.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Great vid!!! my salutes from Argentina!!!

Brilliantly done. Mind blown!

Anybody here after playing Return to Monkey Island? Hi there

@andygeers

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Here are my follow up thoughts after the new game: kzread.info/dash/bejne/moCXuaOHkt2acZM.html

I know that, it was made by TellTale alongside with LucasArts but ToMI would make it seem that it is real and counters the themepark kid's imagination thing

👏🤯

When Guybrush falls at the end, he knocks his head, when he wakes up it's like he's in a subconscious world. Even the music gives that feeling.

You've kinda missed the point. Sadly, LOOM explained much, but no-one chats to dogs...

The last words made me LOL. So how much wood would a woodchuck chuck. hey maybe LeChuck is a woodchuck

@ANTIcoFilms : he does raise soem pretty good if creepy points though, i can't help but applaud that, i didn't realise the box of big whoop said that and that there was a book about the tod in the library.

@Mikels2000 you mean 41? as in club 41?

awesome theories

Wow, really interesting theories you have! I never thought Monkey Island could be that complex. I never got around playing third and later MI games. 1 and 2 are real masterpieces, Ron Gilbert is mastermind.

@creadishcread2243

6 жыл бұрын

Curse is really good, well worth playing.

@creadishcread2243

6 жыл бұрын

It is somewhat different tonally from 1 and 2, especially the more cartoony art style, but it's a great game in it's own right. I'm just as keen to see Ron Gilbert's 'real' sequel, but Curse is a long way from bad.

@Jester_Jean

6 жыл бұрын

didnt he say a new monkey island would be something like Monkey Island 3a and everything after 3 is not part of his MI universe? so isn't 3 canon then?

@Jester_Jean

5 жыл бұрын

Googleame Esta yeah he didn't write it but apparently he accepts it as canon

Big Whoop

Hey, looks like we are about to find out the truth. Did you see the announcement of the true Monkey Island 3?

@andygeers

2 жыл бұрын

Yes indeed - so exciting!

@StansPreviouslyOwnedSoundtrack

8 ай бұрын

A bit sad we eventually got more of a MI6 kinda game. A great game, just not Monkey Island 3a.

chucky's evil eyes creeped me out so much the first time, but then i was a kid. monkey island doesn't exist in a theme park though WTF that was some sort of curse or trap lechuck set: from the moment guybrush fell into that hole where big whoop should have been it was all some sort of delusion (my guess it was created by the same witch doctor lechuck asked to create that guybrush voodoo doll). as hinted by elaine at the end he "fell into soem sort of trap"

Brilliant!

it doesn't. It was made by different people.

@NeoGamemaster how much hate would a hate hater hate if a hate hater could hate hate?

mindblow

@IDyce88 yeah

I thought about this enigmactic end for years... and I didn't see the murder hypothesis. It completely blow out my mind at the moment. CMI, EFMI and TOMI aren't sequel it's just some adaptation of the first Monkey Island spirit. But a question remain : Monkey Island 2 is a really a sequel or a remake ? Because we clearly pass to a Treasure Island Adaptation to an instropective universe where pirate stuff are fake, even in the first episode.

@kamil950

3 жыл бұрын

But Ron Gilbert and Dave Grossman are in credits of Tales of Monkey Island (ToMI).

The secret of monkey island is the huge monkey robot that had the whole body underground and you could enter the main control room on the head It is dissapointing I know, a giant monkey robot, but THAT is the real secret of monkey island, despite how much hate haters can hate.

@mich722

3 жыл бұрын

Not officially.

I have the answer... 42! Oops, wrong story...

@TheAdamus888 yeah me to

i dont think so, its WAY to creepy you realy freaked me out, but your first idea was good...

I am a frigging nerd... :( :)

Interesting stuff, I remember playing and in them woods there was one placed you couldn't go into without inserting a Disk that didn't come with the game...bit vague on it all

@aaRtii6

7 жыл бұрын

NUFCMVFC the disk thing was a joke, Ron himself said people didn't understand the joke so they has to remove it on next versions if I remember correctly

@dhexdev7417

7 жыл бұрын

The insert no X disk was a joke. The game originally came in a set of 9 disks so it was intended to tease the player in a funny way. It back-fired because people would call Lucas Arts often to ask for the missing disks, so they removed this in the next version release.

Great video ! I would never have made a link to the murdered parents... If Only Ron Gilbert could make Monkey Island 3a, all questions would have been answered, and especially : what is the secret of Monkey Island ? We Just know that the game would Start 2 minutes after the end of Monkey 2, in the amusement park

@VintageTechFan

2 жыл бұрын

Well .. we are going to get it now. From what I understood, it's not going to be 3a thought, but more of an MI2.5. Starting in the amusement park and gluing the story to the start of 3. Remember the intro shows him in a bumper car but there is a missing link.

fascinating thoughts, i didn't know monkey island 3 and 4 weren't really true sequels. I wonder what Gilbert had in mind for his trilogy? There seems to be a lot connections to disney i wonder what if anything it might reveal about the story for the "unmade" monkey 3. Surely the fact that chuckies eyes glow red reveal the theme park story isn't the entire truth. But it must tell us something about the overall story since there's so many connections to it.

The secret of monkey Island is that it holds the ultimate insult.

@lusotuber

8 жыл бұрын

+Lyoko012345 This is about the actual secret according to Monkey Island's creator Ron Gilbert. He only made the first two games. He wasn't involved with Curse and Escape.

@kamil950

3 жыл бұрын

@@lusotuber Ron Gilbert and Dave Grossman are also in credits of Tales of Monkey Island.

@mich722

3 жыл бұрын

@@kamil950 But did not create the story after MI2.

Did anyone catch the ressemblance to star wars in some parts? Specially at the end of MI2 when Lechuck tells Guybrush that ''he is his brother" soon after, Guybrush leaves him on the floor with his limbs "cut" off and lechuck asks him to "take of the mask" Hahahaha.

@jmwilliams88

6 жыл бұрын

This is an intentional homage/parody because the game came from George Lucas' LucasArts. There are also references to Indiana Jones throughout the games and George even makes a cameo as the bridge troll in the first game.

@MattySadler

6 жыл бұрын

The whole series is full of LucasArts references.

This is the best pice of nonsense ever made into a a video. I totally loved it!

I don't like those theories. This stuff belongs to Gilbert and only he is supposed to say something about it. Everything else is useless fanart rubbish.

fascinating thoughts, i didn't know monkey island 3 and 4 weren't really true sequels. I wonder what Gilbert had in mind for his trilogy? There seems to be a lot connections to disney i wonder what if anything it might reveal about the story for the "unmade" monkey 3. Surely the fact that chuckies eyes glow red reveal the theme park story isn't the entire truth. But it must tell us something about the overall story since there's so many connections to it.