Three quick notes - 1) Thank you to Morning Brew, 2) Let's address diameter differences. The diameter on my friend's thruster was around 7 cm. The BSI is 12 cm, which is moving a large volume of air. 3) BSI Mark 3 is currently underway. Thanks for watching!

@danielf3623

Жыл бұрын

So 4x the cross section = 4x the air, at 1/2 the speed = about the same kinetic energy imparted. EDIT: Wait I just watched Integza's video again - he hit 15m/s, not 6. WTF did he do? That thing looks jankier than your M1. Maybe just his wider spacing means he can accelerate already-fast air? Seems like the final speed saturates quickly with your low spacing, while Joel adding stages gave a near-linear speed increase.

@jimmyhackers8980

Жыл бұрын

nice work, maybe you could vary the stages diameter, get some rocket nozzle/ jet engine effect going on. (big to small) I think the key to success is the continual/linear increase of air speed per module, which may require a different module design per stage (different voltages, voltage pulses, spacings, diameters etc) . think of it like this.....a 50mph car can only ever tow a trailer at 50mph. Three 50mph cars strapped together will still only tow that trailer at 50mph.

@skylerlehmkuhl135

Жыл бұрын

It would be a good idea to have it push against a scale or something so you can measure the force of thrust rather than just the airspeed.

@InvestmentRBX

Жыл бұрын

WAY TOO COOL BRO

@normanharris1092

Жыл бұрын

Have you considered mechanically increasing airflow? I was thinking a larger 1st stage scaling down to a smaller end stage. You could also optimize the air coming in from the side by using a reflow or ducting. Remember any air coming into the system that is not already at your minimum speed is a net minus as the already flowing air needs to bring the foreign air up to speed. With a 12cm Diameter you have plenty input space and enough air to work with. You could also work on your power stages ... ie increasing the power to each stage linearly. Can't wait to see what you do next :)

Another few angles you might try: 1) Changing the pulse waveform: Shorter rise times should result in much greater transfer of energy to the air, and having a dynamic rise time that adjusts with incoming air velocity might be even better. Humidity and ambient air pressure variation will also require the dynamic rise times for greater efficiency. Additionally, staggering the timing between the stages might increase efficiency as well. 2) Curved wires: requires dielectric spacers to retain equidistant wire spacing. Concentric counter facing half-rings could maximize your area of charge, resulting in an increase to the total air-charge transfer. Changing the angle between stages so that the air begins to take on an angular moment as well may increase thrust. 3) Inter-stage wiring: Presently, your conical intakes allow for passive air intake. This could be changed to an active intake area as well, with an additional few HV leads, resulting in additional charged air.

@northeastslingshot1664

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate intelligent people. 🙏😊

@MikeB12800

Жыл бұрын

You should build one too. Would be interesting to see if your recommendations would improve the design.

@jhoughjr1

Жыл бұрын

love the dynamic pulse time. I suspect that could help a lot. I do wonder if the side inlets are helping, or if varying them could matter.

@jhoughjr1

Жыл бұрын

hmm yeah I really suspect the extra intakes could hinder performance. if the air brought in mixing with the charged air seems it would subtract from the velocity of what is already charged and maybe cause some eddy currents.

@antimoson

Жыл бұрын

​@@jhoughjr1 agree with this. The secondary and third sections may benefit from not taking in more air. They may be producing turbulence that is slowing down the final thrust speed.

While you have already tested and optimised spacing between the anode and cathode for a single stage, i think you should really adjust each stage in a stack individually. The air molecules entering at different velocities might impact how far they need to be apart.

@creepyloner1979

Жыл бұрын

they should never have been stacked in the first place.

@beforebefore

Жыл бұрын

Came here to say the same thing! As the air flow rate increases (after each stage), you have less time to transfer the additional charge to the air. I would also think successive stages would do better with higher voltage.

@boydmcree9085

Жыл бұрын

my thinking is also in 5his camp more space required as velocity increases.

@RRVCrinale

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that occurred to me as well - logically, the faster the air is moving, the less time it has to be influenced by each stage, right?

@nathanchalecki4842

Жыл бұрын

​@@beforebeforewouldn't more voltage benefit all stages regardless of location?

I would recommend 2 things. 1: Remove all axillary air intakes to remove all the additional air entering the system making it more turbulent and thus less effective at each stage. 2: if you want increased thrust and air speed you need to focus all that air, so play around with a diameter reducing cone after the last stage, you will need to play around with different lengths and diameters to find one that gives you what you are looking for 👍 Best of luck, it's been fun watching what you have been working on.

@treyhedgepeth9598

10 күн бұрын

That was my thought process as well, each stage of his design is the same with no change in velocity, take a jet engine for example it narrows. My guess is make Each stage a percent smaller and then also what about offsetting the positive and negatives for each stage?

@mcrazylarenable

10 күн бұрын

@@treyhedgepeth9598 exactly, the issue with adding more air along the way instead of having only one intake is each stage will draw in slow moving air which results in more volume moved but at a slower velocity, if you have one intake then each stage accelerates the air instead of trying to compress more air into the flow which results in more volume and more turbulence.

@mcrazylarenable

10 күн бұрын

@@treyhedgepeth9598 if you then take it so only one intake with a taper at the end then you get good flow and increased thrust coming out the end. ☺️

You could put the whole thing in a housing, with slits at angles off-set from each other. That way the side intakes aren’t competing with each other for wind as much. I think having the stages be different sizes, and the housing go from large to small, along with the stages, could make use of the effect where the velocity of the fluid increases as you hold flow rate steady & decrease the area through which the fluid travels.

You have to try putting a convergent nozzle on this. I’m not sure how much static pressure it’s generating but there must be some, and a nozzle would convert that into more speed. It would also have the added bonus of slowing down upstream flow so it has more time to interact with the extra stages, like you saw in the fan test

@davey2k12

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking same why he not got a output nozzle to make air move faster like a rocket 😅

@norbis3939

Жыл бұрын

More airspeed, but less thrust

@ConHathy

Жыл бұрын

@@norbis3939 that would violate the conservation of momentum, how do you figure?

@norbis3939

Жыл бұрын

@The Con Hathy Channel It would if it were moving the same amount of mass. I don't think it would, though, because with this setup I don't think there's enough pressure for a nozzle to be effective. I could be wrong, but I think with the way the air inlets on the side are working, a nozzle would probably reduce the airflow. This air isn't being compressed like in a rocket or turbine engine, it's just flowing.

@norbis3939

Жыл бұрын

@@ConHathy I guess I could be wrong. Like you said, there has to be some pressure, so maybe a nozzle of some type might help, but it would have to be a very wide nozzle and might not be worth the weight. Worth trying though, I guess

I found your video about the plasma thrusters and as a technician I was fascinated. Great work!! I want to share my idea to you for increasing the thrust in a three stage model: Use slightly different stages: With a lower distance between anode : cathode in the first stage, and an increased distance in second stage and an once more an increased distance in the third flow. Greetings from a farmer's boy from Austrian mountain area.

great video man! im just interested in 2 changes, from what i can see, your 3d prints were left with a rough surface due to the fdm print, but what would happen if you make this surface smoother, im wondering if it would make enough laminar airflow to somehow be more efficient? and secondly if anyone could specify how much thrust this engine makes. thanks

As I think someone mentioned below, you could try making each consecutive ring slightly smaller, only by a few percent at each stage. That way you would introduce 'venturi' like effects to increase the speed of airflow, whilst also adding energy at each ring. Great video, thank you.

@eraclapz2986

Жыл бұрын

And add a spool

@AlanLarawalktheearth

Жыл бұрын

Or we could come together and design a 3.0 working version of course.

@Rezresh

Жыл бұрын

I don't know if the venturi-effect is greater than the loss of thrust you exchange for the smaller diameter. Less 'cable' means less charged particles and less ionic wind. But the best way to say is to try :)

@aplacetoimproveteslacoilin3721

11 ай бұрын

The Next Generation of Ionic Plasma Thrusters (BSI MARK 2) faces a problem related to the efficiency of ionizing propellant. While most ion thrusters ionize propellant by electron bombardment, which involves a high-energy electron colliding with a propellant atom, there are limitations to this method. The BSI MARK 2 aims to improve upon this by introducing a new technique, whereby each consecutive ring is slightly smaller, creating a venturi effect that increases the speed of airflow and adds energy at each ring. However, the effectiveness of this technique remains to be seen, and further research is required to ensure that the BSI MARK 2 can achieve optimal efficiency in ionizing propellant.

@atticusm8627

11 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. I was also thinking about if you shrouded the entire thruster as well

Nice one Jay. Not only a beautiful design, but you have proved that patience and persistence has paid off. For every problem there is always a solution. Thanks for sharing. Also thanks to Alex, Charles & Joel for their input. Rog from Wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿. 😃👍

@PlasmaChannel

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much Roger, and also for the words of truth. This is the beauty of science - it allows us to determine limitations, then design around them. Greetings from Seattle, WA

@timsawyer9231

Жыл бұрын

I don't know, I thought it looked pretty cool haha

@benjaminmiller3620

Жыл бұрын

Hmmm. I have a problem... I'd like to write a program that can calculate if an arbitrary program will terminate, or run forever.

That's a beautiful build Jay, I feel this has a great future soon even for commercial aircrafts❤❤

Have you considered reducing the diamater of each stage to tighten the airflow? Also we need to see these thrusters actually push something.

@griffin8er845

5 ай бұрын

In addition, he should put a cone on the end to increase pressure, similar to an actual jet

@andrewlarson5253

4 ай бұрын

Was looking for something like this, makes sense to try it since we do that in jets already

@miamicatfish6724

3 ай бұрын

In my work with fans I have come to understand that, to increase airflow, an increased pressure drop from inlet to outlet is desired. So, restricting the exhaust would reduce airflow. From the testing in the video, the successive stages seem to be only marginally overcoming the flow restriction imposed at the output of each previous stage. Therefore, maybe the opposite should be tried. That is, to *increase* the diameter of each stage after the first, instead of reducing the diameters. Also, my gut tells me that increasing the diameter of each stage would reduce interference of the entrained airflow into the side inlets of each successive stage. I would also consider to route the wiring between stages through the support rods between stages, and route the wire loops at the exterior of each stage (connecting the ground electrodes) into grooves on the inside surface of the electrode structural cyclinder. Maybe this could be done in a way to eliminate the need for the white wire insulation buffer, which seems heavy. Overall, the idea is to reduce restriction of flow entrained to the side inlets and possibly reduce overall weight. To increase flow velocity and thrust, perhaps a reducer could be added at the highest diameter output stage to make the final output flow diameter the same as (or even less than) the input diameter. But then again, the reducer might kill the overall pressure drop.

@944obscene

2 ай бұрын

This was something I thought about, but reduced diameter also means that the smaller stages will not be capable of the same output. In doing so, you would be putting a less capable thruster right behind a larger one- would likely slow airflow.

You can use Bernoulli's Principle. Instead of placing the individual thruster back-to-back, try to put them side-by-side, and then constrict the output of the thruster system with the help of a nozzle, that might increase the airflow's speed.

@monad_tcp

Жыл бұрын

yeah, but that's for scaling out, first you have to scale up.

@chriswhite3692

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking this but gradually decreasing the size of each thruster. So larger front, smaller back.

@TheErmerm999

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree the additional stages adds much more weight and complexity with, reduced return. each stage needs to be tweaked to function at the in flow of the preceding stages outflow. Adding a varrible headwind like during forward motion triples this complexity. best designing one variable stage than 3 static ones

@thomasg1150

Жыл бұрын

@@chriswhite3692that would work if it generates enough static pressure, nozzles often result in flow reversal if there is too little pressure. If we had a CFD tool that supported electric fields this could be really well optimised.

@sihilius

Жыл бұрын

I don't think this thruster would generate enough pressure for that.

You should try inverting the polarity of the second ring (emitter and collector). Once passing through the first ring, the air is no longer neutral, it's ionised, thus the second ring's emitter will actually repel it. By inverting the polarities of the second ring, you may experience the boost you are looking for.

@atimholt

Жыл бұрын

“Reverse the polarity” irl. lol

@lootedgravel3283

Жыл бұрын

or just turn the middle 90°. Not like the first tesr between pos/neg, but whole structure.

@lrrromicronpersei8294

Жыл бұрын

That’s exactly what I was thinking that and possibly 3 inlets to 1 outlet maybe with some ducting if each unit is able to put out 2ms and you duct that 3 times into one outlet and change the outlet size maybe.. to accelerate the air flow

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

v

Should definitely look into using generative design to get the weight of the wing down more! Amazing work!

I have no idea what any of this means but peeps like this deserve support.

I think increasing the distance for later stages might be something to consider. Smaller distance was ideal for the first stage, but that does not mean that is ideal for all the stages. That setup with a fan would be useful to test what the ideal distance is when the air comes in with speed already. That might make it worth modifying even the first stage if you plan to use it in a plane as then you have some air speed from the planes speed. Also, how about metal strips instead of rods, those would have much less air resistance with similar surface area. Might want to experiment with tighter spacing between each as well.

@johnmeade4610

Жыл бұрын

Automated distance control base on wind speed and more control on waveform on each stage could lead to massive optimization.

@Sapphier4Dav

Жыл бұрын

Come to say the same. I think the additional speed of the next 2 stages comes from the extra airflow from the side. interesting would be a test with closed 2/3 stages. And after that changing the spacing in the second and third stage.

@milamber319

Жыл бұрын

I was going to suggest the same thing. and perhaps move down to 2 stages with a lot more chances for discharging. Part of the problem here is that the positive and negative fields are too close and its not given the air enough time to charge and discharge.

@davidjsample

Жыл бұрын

Was going to say the same. Also could have a test rig that allowed screw or slide operated grids so you could quickly test an infinite variable position without having to assemble/ reprint every time. Then just back measure the distance that provides the best flow

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

Only thing I can suggest trying is gradually shrink each stage. Same volume through a smaller area makes more speed. Awesome work! I look forward to the next iteration. Where's Electroboom? I need to see him make one!

@richardmillhousenixon

Жыл бұрын

The efficiency losses from forcing the air into a smaller diameter will likely not be worth it

@masol3726

Жыл бұрын

or add many stages in parallel with the outlet giving a bigger output

@g_rr_tt

Жыл бұрын

@@richardmillhousenixon what efficiency losses? Air pressure at the output? isn't that the goal? Making a nozzle is an effective way of increasing fluid output speed. Have you every used an air compressor with a nozzle attachment? did you feel the reactionary force on your wrist when you open the nozzle? That reactionary force is called "Thrust," and it is driven by the difference in air pressures.

@znail4675

Жыл бұрын

Not only speed but air volume also matter when it comes to how much actual thrust an engine will give.

@tryingbridge2548

Жыл бұрын

Kinda like when you put your lips together when you blow out candles. You don't blow with you mouth wide open.

Está buenísimo, es el futuro de los motores, ojalá lo puedas desarrollar aún más!!! Suerte

I'm really interested to see how this would pair up with some form of a compression chamber, I wonder if it would increase thrust.

Phd student here. Really awesome work! If you ever want to build one of those NASA thrusters I can help. My background is in Hall thrusters and know a bit about electrospray as well. Keep up the great work!

@davidliu3463

Жыл бұрын

The thruster Plasma Channel used conductive sticks and wires to accelerate ions? The build looks very different from Hall thruster though. I wonder if the +- charged acceleration grid in hall thruster will work as well in atmospheric conditon.

@vladtirila5993

Жыл бұрын

@@davidliu3463 they are different from the thruster in the video. Hall thruster or gridded ion thrusters or electrospray thrusters (many different kinds of thrusters) work in vacuum. The equations shown at the funny NASA segment in the video are from some of those thrusters that's why I suggested them. The one built in this video is amongst the only ionic thrusters that work in atmosphere via the electrohydrodynamic phenomenon.

@academicpachyderm5155

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Somebody who can help with more scientific testing and data gathering would do wonders in addition to raw knowledge

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

I'm very happy to see this kind of friendly competition in this new field! This is how we make progress

@jayzenstyle

11 ай бұрын

It is very beautiful, this is why competition is key to innovation.

@XBullitt16X

8 ай бұрын

Right ? This is groundbreaking stuff.

@menelaoskoundourakis7552

7 ай бұрын

It's hardly new, professionals have been doing this since the 60s.

@sirshrooma

7 ай бұрын

@@menelaoskoundourakis7552 who said it was new? they just said they were happy to see it and that it encourages progress

HI Jay, I'm a commercial pilot retired. If you look at the air intake on the Concord you can see that the intake is square. I think your round intakes are creating a lot of drag. And, the round electrodes are also creating a certain amount of drag/friction. I'm going to build a square version with a more aerodynamic intake and aerodynamic electrodes. Perhaps flat/sleek rounded edge electrodes could decrease friction and increase airflow. I'll also play around with increasing voltage over 50K. Your video and channel is GREAT, thanks!

@blakenobles4118

Ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing about the intake and electrode shape. Even scram jets get better performance using a squared intake. I really think you are onto something with these changes.

@raywynston3396

Ай бұрын

I'm interested in finding out your results!! Good Luck. I really think higher voltage is going to work better as well. Higher voltage more ions, more flow!@@blakenobles4118

What if you reduce the diameter of the ring 1 and 2 reducing the outlet diameter, as if it were a funnel? In air and water flows that increases the exit velocity. Could it also work with ions or do they work differently?

Question: Have you tried modifying the ratio, or even simply the number, of wires to grounds? From what I can tell, it's currently pretty close to 1:1, what happens with 2:1, or 1:2? Would you be capable of charging more particles with more contacts?

@Nbomber

Жыл бұрын

I wonder if an insulating deflector would help too. If its posible to force the charged ions to take a curved path round a deflector to the ground. Idk if that would increase charge density between deflectors and force the air to interact with it more.

@radiantthought

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing, I also wonder if it may make more sense to only use conductors around the edge of the ring (after the first one) so that it's spending more time accelerating air around the edges rather than trying to re-energize and pump the already moving air more.

@jeremiahsamueltemple3409

11 ай бұрын

2 questions You said the following stages had issues initially with the interactions because the aur passed too quickly. What happens if each subsequent stage had larger spacing between the wires and tubing? You also said between the wires and tubing in each stage, parallel is king. What happens if each stage is rotated or even offset? 2 or 3 repeating sections if offset is best? If rotating works instead, see if 120 angle rotations in sets of 3 help.

I'd be very excited to see the V3. There are just so many variables to test against each other here when developing it. Maybe printing a component where you can alter variables easily on that component, rather than having to print out different ones for each individual scenario, would be best for data-collection?

Just discovered your channel and I find it fascinating, informative and inspiring. In regards to this build, which I want to adapt for a project, I can't help but wonder if some form of halo stages might assist. And possibly narrowing the exit port of the final stage.

This is so fun to watch, thank you! I learned so much from your channel and your motivation to get in contact with other experts, even read some documentation from NASA is so impressive! Keep it up, i really would love to see the next version with 8m/s ;-)

Awesome work! some ideas: instead of straight tubes you could use circular tubes to more effectively use the geometry. and maybe put the center once further back so you take more air from outside and push it in. also making the stages smaller as you move along could introduce even more compression which hopefully will increase the airflow. I'm no expert though so maybe what I just said is really dumb lol. this was an awesome video and I love that you're taking us along the ride through the whole development process. to me that really makes it engaging to watch!

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

For a third version, I believe that each sector of the thruster must be more powerful than the last. this will generate the effect of greater wind acceleration. Your round electrodes are generating too much drag, use plane wing-shaped electrodes. one way to do this would be to print electrodes in the shape of wings and wrap thin copper wires around them so you have the shape you need. Edit: if you ever make the electrodes in the shape of an airplane wing, I realized that something needs to be done. Only the front of the metal electrode should be exposed to the wind. I believe that the way it is, whether with the round electrode or the wing electrode, if the back of the electrode is exposed to the wind, it can generate drag due to electrostatic forces. So I believe that only the front part of the electrode should be exposed to the wind.

@dekutree64

Жыл бұрын

I think alternating polarity on each stage will eliminate that problem. Maybe even eliminate the need for the fine wires on all but the first stage, if the sharp trailing edge on the airfoil collector can serve as the emitter for the next stage. I'd use plastic drinking straws as the airfoil form. Give them a crease to create a sort of teardrop profile, and wrap aluminum foil over it. The serrated edge left from the foil cutter may further improve emission :)

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

@tayranos7432

Жыл бұрын

@@vincecox8376 Bro. Are you ok ?

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

@@tayranos7432 I'm more then OK, I have worked in physics all my life at age 9, I was designing and building my own HAM radio equipment receivers and transmitters back in 1959. I have allot of credential I have teaching credentials as well. Your just having a problem excepting the truth about things, You have been brain washed !!

Im not sure if it still exists, but a french experimter was working on this in the 90s. I think his name was J Naudin. He had found that thrust correlated to voltage, regardless of current up to the point of breakdown. His math showed that big improvements could be made by increasing the dielectric constant and simultaneously raising the voltage. While you can do this by increasing the distance between electrodes, a better method may be to add a dielectric material between them.

I once wanted to increase the thrust of an impeller without increasing its diameter. So I put two impellers behind each other. I noticed the same phenomena. The thrust did not increase by a factor of 2. To increase the thrust, the second impeller needs a higher or stronger pitch. But I do not know how to translate this for the ionic thruster.

Would putting more space between the positive and negative electrodes for the later stages allow them to work better with the faster air that the prior stages are pushing? It might also be worth seeing what staggering the pairs of electrodes on later stages so that each stage is staggered from the previous would do.

@wolvenedge6214

Жыл бұрын

If we're increasing the gap as we go further back, we might also need to have the voltage increase too. I imagine it *might* function like shifting gears; torque prioritized at inlet, speed at outlet.

@oxyLuna

Жыл бұрын

I believe he tested this in his first video

@Pystro

Жыл бұрын

Well, would increasing layer spacing on subsequent stages have an effect? Let me think it through: The spacing affects the electric field between the electrodes, which determines how abruptly the ions accelerate. Or in other words, how much *excess kinetic energy* the ions are given over their neutral brethren for every *millimeter* they travel. While the potential or voltage between electrodes determines how much energy the ions receive in total. But since the ions need time to shed that excess speed to the bulk of neutral air around them, we *probably* want them to gain the same amount of excess *speed* per *millisecond,* which turns out to be mathematically the same as kinetic energy per millimeter (as long as you don't change the mass of the molecules). Which would suggest that the layer distance should stay equal in subsequent stages, at least if we want all stages to have the same efficiency (in terms of converting current or wattage into air molecule momentum). This isn't the only factor at play, though. Other factors include: -- Ions repel each other, and giving them enough time to spread out can allow them to affect more than just a small sliver of the total air flow. -- The field strength between the layers directly influences the field strength at the positive wire electrode, and that field needs to stay strong enough to ionize air molecules. -- Faster air will increase the flow rate of molecules past the positive wire, and more collisions with it means that more molecules get ionized *per second,* but the same amount *per volume of air.*

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

@wolvenedge6214

Жыл бұрын

@@vincecox8376 Oh sweet, a schizo thread!

I think you could increase thrust by shrinking each thruster by about 20% from the stage before it. And increasing power in the smaller stages to concentrate the air flow.

@dumpsterpossum

8 ай бұрын

I agree maybe with that closing the gap between each stage. You're essentially creating a multi stage compressor but with less moving parts and much smaller. It reminds me of the inlet guide veins on a multistage compressor. Maybe a thought of closed or close to closed between each stage to force some compression with as another comment said to use more power to the end stages stepped up incrementally. I dunno though just some thoughts.

@KJ-ho6sb

8 ай бұрын

moar venturi

@JB-fh1bb

8 ай бұрын

Why does my brain fail to understand the concept? Like, if the largest stage pulls in X amount of air, and that’s concentrated so that the smallest stage is pushing it out faster (this makes sense), doesn’t that create exactly the same amount of thrust since it’s moving X amount of air no matter how small the smallest stage is?

@jonismack1

8 ай бұрын

@@JB-fh1bb the total volume of air displaced stays constant yes, but exhaust velocity is important for thrust, check rocket thrust equation.

@zachGTI

7 ай бұрын

Compressing air on an ionic thruster is not helpful or relevant. Divergent and convergent nozzles placed and sized correctly however, are key.

Just watched!!! I had a spark of inspiration when you brought out the pyro inside of you. Around 14:58 you put your hand in front of the exhaust and the fire went out. My spark was, PUT A NOZZLE on it!!! LIke a Secondly, what about doubling the positive and negative wires? My reverse thought on that is that there maybe more arcing. just a though.

Thus video is absolutely awesome. As a student of Advanced Astrophysics, Quantum Physics and other related subjects including Plasma Physics, I would be very tempted to actually build something like this as I have always been into things like Plasma Physics etc. I will keep you updated as to how I get on and hopefully I'll see some results within the next few months once I've designed and built my first ionic thruster. Keep up the totally awesome work you're doing.

When you talked about making the wires more aerodynamic I figured you'd use thin long plates for both electrodes. Might be worth some experimentation. Anyway, I've really been enjoying these videos! Thanks

@pseudotasuki

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, my recollection of the MIT aircraft is that it used foil strips for the electrodes. Not only more aerodynamic, they also increase the surface area.

@pseudotasuki

Жыл бұрын

My recollection is flawed. The electrodes are airfoil shapes.

@Julian-wp8sc

Жыл бұрын

since he’s most likely to see this comment, i was thinking he could progressively make each stage smaller so that each subsequent stage compresses the air compounded.

@pseudotasuki

Жыл бұрын

@@Julian-wp8sc You actually want to avoid compressing the air.

@gary.richardson

Жыл бұрын

Laminar ribbed ribbon, lines in the direction of airflow across both sides of the ribbon width. Perhaps, if each concentric stage will be smaller, the outer lines (grooves) angle in slightly and the grooves toward the center have a slightly larger gap.

Very awesome, have you looked into the Jean-Claude Lafforgue thruster? Looking at your setup I wonder if removing the side intakes and reducing the size of the other stages to continue the Venturi effect would increase the performance.

@gshaindrich

Жыл бұрын

regarding Venturi effect: he just stacks 3 stages, doesn´t even consider the spaces between the stages should be different between 1st-2nd vs 2nd-3rd.... So making three different stage sizes is to much planning. Also not necessary at this point, as a proof of concept for just thrust the current setup is more efficient I would guess. Requires only mass flow, not necessarily higher output airspeed.

@mynewschannel3100

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the heads up just found an article by Jean-Louis Naudin, the Daddy of Amateur Ionic Propulsion 😄

OK idea, can you use reducing size rings, 1st ring 7 inch, feeding into 5 inch, then down to 3 inch but with higher voltage as it funnels through each section. Could this create the velocity needed to give more thrust/ air flow? Just an idea 💡

Have you considered the amount of trusts vs the truster surface (3 stages)? What about making the truster smaller and adding few of them in parallel?

You could try tapering each stage, so the output apertures are getting progressively smaller/narrower with each stage, and hopefully concentrating the airflow.

@heretech7025

Жыл бұрын

This is what I was thinking. Funneling the airflow.

@maxpain2554

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking of tapering it and making it adjust its inner and outer diameter in proportion to airspeed.

@mohitawatade

Жыл бұрын

That's nice idea 💯💯

@craighuffman5397

Жыл бұрын

I was just getting ready to mention the same thing. Kind of like plumbing water line to keep pressure levels higher...

@beatyoubeachyt8303

Жыл бұрын

I don't think this will ever be useful for powering an airplane ionic thrusters are very inefficient extremely soul why not just use electric jet engines instead EDF's how much more efficient you go faster and have more range

I recommend creating this device in a fluid dynamics program so you can visualize where the air is becoming turbulent, also it will allow you to test more variations of the the housing shapes and angles. my main suggestions to improving this design is you need to create low pressure in the middle of the design by having that be a smaller diameter (the housing needs to be air tight though so it doesn't leak) and also add a nozzle on the end so the air flow isn't coming out turbulent but more precise in the centre. also it might be worth playing around with the idea of two intakes and having them be forced into a single housing with a much smaller end end housing. always awesome to see your progress in this, keep up the awesome work!

@wil54

Жыл бұрын

Two intakes forced into a single housing would be effectively the same as one large intake right?

Have you tried alternating the modules' direction? i.e first module is perpendicular to the second, the second perpendicular to the third and so on...(looking at it on the entrance/exit should form a tennis racket pattern)

What was the flow rate of a single stage with the new design of thinner gauge wire and foiled-shaped tubing? Have you attempted more looping on the positive so that more than one strand arcs with the negative foiled-shaped tubing? Could you explain why the added fan did not help? Could it be that the fan is pushing molecules, and the arc is pulling and pushing atoms?

Fantastic mark 2, really appreciated going over variables that had negligible or negative effects.

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

Well done! I think it's important to measure thrust to weight ratio as well as wind speed generated. That would be a better gauge of performance which would give us a better idea of how much more improvement is needed.

@kalebjohns7715

9 ай бұрын

Don't forget thrust generated to power inputted.

@dawnkeyy

7 ай бұрын

Dont forget the weight of the electronics powering it

First time i stumbled across this type of content, this is so cool!

Out of curiosity have you thought about applying this after the Mass Air Flow sensor on a car's Air Intake? It would be similar to having a blower but you may need to use the Throttle Position Sensor as a Potentiometer so it's not going wide open when the engine is at idle

On your ionic engine, try individual power supplies for each stage and vary the outputs to each stage while observing, which makes a better, stronger thrust.

@vinyardsmainchannel5802

11 ай бұрын

also constrict the cross-sectional area as stages continue to increase air compression thus increasing air flow

@danhard8440

10 ай бұрын

i was thinking the same but in sequence first second third then back to one

@superliegebeest544

10 ай бұрын

3 6 9

Cool project, I think you should try sandblasting the aluminum cross tubes to increase their surface area. I also think you should try two or three layers of fine wire to ionize the air. Finally, the side inlets might not be helping, They are mixing low-velocity air with flowing air. You should try close them off completely. Maybe even setting up one vortex tunnel of descending circumference.

@abrahamlewis6604

11 ай бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking. The air inlets on the side aren’t adding anything except slow or stalled air, reducing the compression of the existing flow. Yes, they will add additional air flow, as the majority of the air they are pulling in is already in motion, but there is a loss of efficiency due to the air that is at rest. Once forward momentum is achieved, the ramjet Venturi could have some added benefit. However I think the thrust potential is limited by the speed of the electrons moving thru the compression area. Adding additional +/- electron emitting/collecting will increase the base thru put. However, using more efficient metals and thin blades vs tubes will add area and reduce drag. Adjusting the current/flow of electrons will greatly increase the speed of the already moving air, reduce turbulence, and therefore increase the pressure/thrust.

@aplacetoimproveteslacoilin3721

11 ай бұрын

The Next Generation of Ionic Plasma Thrusters (BSI MARK 2) faces the challenge of determining the most effective design for the ionizing process. While jet turbines evolved from propellers, it is not yet clear what the evolution of ionic thrust will be. The BSI MARK 2 introduces new design elements such as aluminum cross tubes to increase their surface area and two or three layers of fine wire to ionize the air. However, the effectiveness of these design elements is uncertain, and further research is required to determine their optimal configuration. Additionally, the side inlets may be counterproductive, as they mix low-velocity air with flowing air, leading to decreased efficiency. A possible solution to this problem could be to set up one vortex tunnel of descending circumference to ensure that only high-velocity air enters the thruster. Overcoming these challenges will be critical to the development of the Next Generation of Ionic Plasma Thrusters.

@lexiecrewther7038

10 ай бұрын

@@abrahamlewis6604 agree. The venturi is inefficient, and absorbs energy from the system. It converts pressure energy into kinetic energy. He does not have pressure, so it can only have a negative effect on performance. He needs to use the 3 stages in parallel, so he can create pressure, then convert that pressure into extra airflow

@metroidmania8833

10 ай бұрын

I had that same thought.

While the dry ice-water vapor evaluation reveals that the aux inlet do indeed induct airflow, I have not yet seen you test THRUST as opposed to air velocity. If you maintain the same air flow speed, but increase the volumetric flow you will get more thrust. It could be very revealing to put together a little lateral load sensor setup to compare THRUST for the various configurations.

I have an idea if the anode tubes were raindrop shaped with the tail pointing towards the rear output. Im thinking it will remove some of the turbulences on the rear of the anodes

I would absolutely love to see a mark 3 of this thing, i think it is fascinating tech and videos are well made, subscribed!

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

If you're trying to reduce weight you might want to look into the foaming 3D printing filaments. You could probably tweak it to get the structural rigidity you need and reduce weight by controlling the amount of foaming. Although that seems like a step you would do once you are done with optimizing the electrodes.

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

Will the speed not increase if the latter channels get smaller, ie if the front on is 12 cm, the next one 11 cm and the final one 10cm, less area for that air to flow through will result in more air movement?

I'm curious on if the diameter of the inlet has any play in how powerful the airflow can be, integra here on KZread also made an ionic thruster, but his was tiny in comparison.

If you want to get faster airflow, you might want to reduce the size of each stage a little bit, so it would start large, pulling in lots of air, and get smaller as it goes through. I think this will increase the pressure as the air goes through the thruster, and as a result of the increased pressure, increased velocity

@alexottinger6765

Жыл бұрын

The pressure would actually be decreasing for the exchange of increased velocity airflow. As you're describing a nozzle. A good way to think of it is that a negative pressure (vacuum) would pull in more air faster, ie higher velocity. Jet engines use nozzle-diffuser exhausts to increase the velocity from the burner and turbine stage to a higher Mach number via the nozzle geometry, and does this through the enegry expense of decreased pressure. Then the diffuser at the exhaust increases the pressure, typically towards ambient pressure and as a result it reduces the velocity.

@class2instructor32

Жыл бұрын

Those side "inets" are not helping

@lordchickenhawk

Жыл бұрын

I think as the air speeds up and moves through the succeeding stages then the following grid pairs might need to be further apart so as to keep ions in the accelerating zone for the same period of time as the first stage. Otherwise it will still have the same problem as putting a computer fan in front of the single stage. As Alex suggests, there might also need to be a diffuser after the last stage... and I think that might need to be heat resistant

@kiljupullo

Жыл бұрын

@@class2instructor32 I was thinking this too since airflow is obsturucted by air from the sides.

@alexottinger6765

Жыл бұрын

@@lordchickenhawk yep you are right. there's definitely a need for testing in grid spacing, and I don't think this channel is the best at the scientific method for this reason. For instance, he tested the grid orientation by 90 degrees but didn't take an iterative approach, so there's no guarantee that parallel is the best. Perhaps 33 degrees or 45 is better, or even 14? No one knows the best approach to improving this engine, beyond basic principles/logic from thermodynamics, aerodynamics, and jet propulsion. However, my experience with electronics has proven to show many surprising results due to the physics alone. If he wants to optimize this system, he really needs to solve for a physical model representation. With instrumental uncertainty and proper testing. As his test with the fan did not prove anything other than that his current setup is not linear. There's a chance that moving one grid further or closer could reach a sweet spot that creates a linear relationship. It's probably unlikely, I would guess there's a gaussian distribution for grid spacing as each stage needs enough room to pull more air from the sides while also maintaining the "narrowing" flow rate through each stage. He may need to design a very long nozzle to increase the velocity. The question becomes more about how long is too much material versus too short for limited thrust. There's also no answer yet to how the number of grids impact the results. So it's almost reaching a pointless approach, to only focus on aerodynamics at the inlet. I don't think a diffuser will help either as an increase in pressure is not needed, as that would lead to a loss in energy. Unless you plan to drive turbine blades, which would be a very inefficient fan. I think there may be some testing required for possibly a nacelle versus open, and then as most people have indicated, smaller subsequential stages to create a nozzle effect. The device is in its early stages, it's worth making something heavy and bulky to get results, so that it can be refined down to a lightweight optimized model.

Would be interesting to try running each stage on offset phases to see if it makes a difference.

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

Would having a larger stage to start middle a bit smaller with the final stage being a bit smaller as well have impact? In cars they use a similar setup with turbos where you have a large turbo feeding a smaller one to force it to spool up faster

This is literally the first time heard of ionic thruster. I'm freaking out! This is future tech is here what wow omg

To better work upon the venturi effect, Try making each following stage slightly smaller. The inclemently shrinking space should increase velocity of the outlet.

@daboy12s

9 ай бұрын

exactly wat i was thinking, i would also be interested to see what would happen if you had an outer shroud that draws the secondary and tertiary airflow from the first stage

@ACBNeiva

8 ай бұрын

Another detail: The gap from positive to negative electrodes should not be the same on different stages. Experimental work should be adressed to optimize electrode gap on second and third stages.

@trailingrails9953

8 ай бұрын

My concern with that would be overcoming the additional static pressure that would create. Feels like the first stage needs to be exponentially more robust to overcome the resistance from the next modules. I have to wonder how if an intake manifold set up with two or 3 channeling air down to one positioned at the exhaust end of a cone would produce the same effect without the downside of needing to shrink the final stage.

@davey2k12

8 ай бұрын

I wonder what would happen with gradually smaller funnel like nozzle smaller the nozzle the faster the air will flow with limits even if was few centimetres less than current outlet even with side inlet and last stage slightly inside the nozzle just a thought tho.... Start at 30cm 20cm 10cm to 8 or 6cm nozzle mmmmmmmm

@cj.wijtmans

7 ай бұрын

I also wonder if by creating a grid with the stages (alternating the stages in 90 degrees) if you would get laminar flow.

I would be interested to see if the 3 would make more thrust separately or in the 3-in-a-row config you have now.

@OwenMurphy-pp6dr

Жыл бұрын

thrust, maybe, as they are pushing more air volume, but stacking them is the only way to increase the velocity of the airflow without increasing the mag field created by the electrodes(which can be done a couple different ways).I’m not being a know it all, i just built one recently is all. not qualified in any way.

@OwenMurphy-pp6dr

Жыл бұрын

if you mean routing the 3 separate ones into 1 output nozzle of some sort then yes it wld make it faster, i just realized that’s what you could have meant after writing the last response.

@randy6394

Жыл бұрын

@@OwenMurphy-pp6dr I would love to see you try it. seeing what actual thrust you could make. also instead of running the wire through the tubes solder them could help making the tubes thinner I'm subscribing after seeing this video.

@OwenMurphy-pp6dr

Жыл бұрын

@@randy6394 yeah i love this guy he’s where i got the original idea from (although it’s much different from his now)

Last semester one of the teams in my university engineering project class built an ionic thruster. An interesting idea they had was to make each stage larger than the last to take advantage of the Bernoulli effect and get a greater output flow. An interesting concept and it seemed to work quite well.

Really Awesome can’t wait for the next video.

More thumbs to be given up to here on KZread, one is not enough! You're killing it Jay, not only are your designs functionally so cool, they are also always so beautiful! (Also love the little friendly rivalry you and Integza have, lol)

This is a great video. Love how you've approached ways to improve your design. Especially when collaborating with different people. I'm not a PhD of any sort but I'm fascinated about learning how physics works and gets applied. This might be outside the realm of plasma but if you're open to trying this out or if it's possible, have the output airflow of your engine go into a chamber that's like Tesla one way valve and heating the later end of the chamber to expand the air (similar to a ram jet) as it leaves chamber. It might not work for obvious reasons I not aware of, but it's food for thought. ;) I look forward to seeing other videos.

I would be curious what smaller diameter could produce in thrust. Especially if you test fitting as many small ones into the space of mark 2 for comparison

You are thinking just in terms by the lorentz efect, think a little bit like a *warp torus by time-space displacement* ,something else like the the *warp bubble* that was indentified in a vacoon chamber when the casemir efect was studied, a displacement by the time-space deformation in toroidal paterns, electric field being converted into gravitacional field.

You might want to use thinner negative conductors as well and try a closer spacing so theoretically you could get more out of the unit. Also, I love seeing your progress in this build.

@Stephen-fj7cw

Жыл бұрын

I was wondering what the optimal ion density would have to be to produce maximum thrust (if there is such a figure) By making each grid with closer spaced wires would improve the voltage gradient between the positive and negative “plates”. (More exposure of the electrical field to the air molecules) With the wires displaced as they are, it seems that the electron flow moves across the desired air path , effectively lessening the electron push on the air. It just seems like there isn’t enough electrons (too low density) pushing the air molecules Kind of demonstrated when the 2 grids were brought closer together, the resulting electrical resistance decreased and thereby increased the electron flow (current). I was just wondering

In your current design, have you thought of stepping down the output diameter of each subsequent thruster to see if that too would increase the air thrust pressure? Great job by the way it is inspiring me to make one.

@burningbarnavit

7 ай бұрын

T-H-I-S! Thank you. Smaller diameter and collapsing gaps between each one.

@kayakuprising5914

7 ай бұрын

I like this! I'm not versed in anything like this, but it makes sense in water pressure, why not this?

@alexhguerra

6 ай бұрын

Can air inertia play a role here?

would it be possible to make a thruster like this, but have it be wide and flat like those box fans? would be useful for a quieter fan not intended for generating thrust.

This is my two cents worth. I think we have to think of this at microscopic level. What causes the thrust is the net affect of the positive ions that are ripped apart but miss metal rods (correct me if I’m wrong). The ones that “hit” the rods try to slow down thruster. So there is a net effect force of the ones that miss. Now if you have 3 in a row, you end up with ions that have to go through a gauntlet, they hit one, that energy is lost. Also for effect to work you need to feed “neutral” charged air, but your feeding increasingly charged ions at every stage. Neutral air is still getting to the second and third stages but they will be less efficient and tripling thrust I think might be difficult. I think if you want to triple thrust, they need to be side by side in parallel. And you have to measure force and not airflow.

That is a nice project. To increase the air flow, try the trusters in parallel, adding their outputs to a single exit pipeline.

I love your confidence as you hold 50kv of *pain* in front of your face. EDIT: Maybe try parallel thrusters that converge into a nozzle? If you can only move the air so fast, converting that into pressure might allow for more thrust.

@DobermannJeff

Жыл бұрын

🤣

@thureintun1687

Жыл бұрын

do you like Arma 3?

@Martin_Speed

Жыл бұрын

I was wondering that too 😂

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

@vincecox8376

Жыл бұрын

OK let's get this correct !! #1 The only reason radio waves and AC current travel out in space and down a wire is because of the "CENTER " of a magnetic field. (The "B" field), The North and South poles are the weakest part of a magnet !! Just like Tesla said, you got to look at things you can't see !! At the center of a magnet is anti gravity, (just tap the center on any glass or plastic and it will loose weight), The center can repel water if vibrated at the correct frequency, If you vibrate the "B" field into granite rock it will become soft and you would need copper tools to work on same , you don't want to disrupt the magnetic (B")field ) with other iron. Once you understand the "B" field of a magnet and how it relates to the entire universe we live in, you will then understand what Tesla was telling everyone "LOOK FOR WHAT YOU CANNOT SEE"" .I believe the pyramids were inter galactic communications and transportation systems. Stone Henge and Gobekli Tepe , power plants. Take a look at Coral Castle Florida on KZread and you will see a similar pilar. I believe these horizontal pillars were oscillators that would provide excitation for many things from crops in the field to anti gravity

One thing I learnt from building solar cars is that all those extra aerofoils in series are ultimately increasing your effective frontal area and therefore drag. You'll need to do a tradeoff on stages verse winding pitch and also aerofoil length and cross section. Drag really hurts you as your airspeed climbs. You could also optimise those exposed insulators since they will create drag and turbulence which will reduce your Venturi effect. last thought is, rotate the positive to negative grid 90 degrees which will increase the surface area you are ionising?

From your test I notice that you can achieve more trust with more air. Have you consider increasing the second and the third ventury inlet so you have additional Ajr added to the stream, It will become a bit Cone shaped ?

Generally I think the *added velocity comes from the added neutral air from the sides* , but not from the back. - *tuning each stage:* experiment with a fan in front and behind each stage with different velocities - *electrical balancing of the stages:* each of them needs to do something different, because the incoming airspeed is different and the electrical properties should reflect that too. - *limit back-draft* by making a more pronounced *"neutral" region.* (somehow) - adding *multiple staggered anodes* per cathode taking advantage of all the energy. - check out the *"Einzel lens"* -Concept. I can not put my finger on it, but I feel that the focusing could help with the aerodynamics I don't envy you, because there are many parameters to modify and a lot of them influence each other. I am eager to see the video with the 8m/s thruster though.

@peterdunn5910

10 ай бұрын

could you put a choke on the back of each stage to concentrate the airflow more in the centre and allowing more air in the side of the second and third venturi

This is FREAKIN AWESOME! I kept invisioning a hover board, but a plan would be cool too! Can't wait to see part 3!

Could you direct 10% of the discharge air velocity into small tanks that allow it to pressurize ( use of check valves) and then re-introduce high pressure back into the inlet? Similar to a capacitor? And or a ball driven from a magnetic field might help in the center as a booster.

Would restricting outside airflow at each stage to create more of a suction add to airflow speed?

Great video. Looks like there is very little advantage to stacking the thrusters though. Better to have many single units in parallel rather than stacking them in series. Looking forward to mk. 3

@year6million

Жыл бұрын

true. maybe stacking them side by side to then push them all out of a single outlet. like a turbo. collecting all air into a 3 way inlet and then out of 1 outlet. because then each thruster is independently producing 2m/s and then hopefully combine without reducing any other thrusters power.

@JC-fj7oo

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. The first thing I would have tried after the disappointing results with the pc fan would be to stick two onto a Y shaped tube. Obviously serial plasma thrust doesn't work that way.

Awesome work!! I love what you're doing! I would be curious to see what a radial array of wires would do. I wonder if you angled the ground fins like a propeller to create a vortex at different angles for each stage and decreased the side inlets farther down and compress the vortex at the end with a tapered nozzle to speed up it's rotation and hopefully velocity as well. I'm no engineer but I know jet engines have variable angle fins in between turbines to guide the airflow for maximum efficiency!

It's the best video I've ever seen about plasma

Energy of an object is proportional to velicity squared. assuming every stage is adding Energy to the media two ideal stages should give 1.4 times velocity. an other question have you tried to concentrate the stream with magentic fields? it might reduce friction on the side adding to be Bernoulli effect.

I was wondering what would happen if you tried creating a vortex? Imagine 5 stages.Each offset by a few degrees to twist up the airflow so when you reach stage 5 (or whatever) the grounds are now vertical. So, stage one is horizontal, and from there each stage is twisted slightly until you reach the final stage that us vertical.

@chrisquinn8150

Жыл бұрын

I was wondering the same, also I believe the laminar boundary layer (aka skin effect) is slowing down his results due to unnecessary drag. Im curious if a rotating triangular set of grids would help open up the center a bit for higher flow through while twisting it could help create that vortex to even out and center the flow

@danielspiller2292

Жыл бұрын

when i seen the video i was wondering a similar thing. but adding a "rifling barrel". to cause a spiral effect.

@aplacetoimproveteslacoilin3721

11 ай бұрын

The development of the Next Generation of Ionic Plasma Thrusters requires an understanding of the evolution of ionic thrust. While jet turbines evolved from propellers, there is still much to be learned about the potential evolution of ionic thrust. The BSI MARK 2 represents a significant step towards the development of advanced ion thrusters, with its incorporation of new design elements such as the aluminum cross tubes and fine wire layers. The challenge now is to determine the optimal configuration for these elements and to eliminate design flaws such as the mixing of low-velocity air with flowing air.

Excellent work...regarding electrode alignment, you would be wise to introduce some asymmetry into your design IE positive electrode (forward,) can be wire and the negative electrode (arft,) a cylindrical ribbon...greater surface area..also have you considered staggering the voltages IE each stage higher than the previous.

Have you tried aluminum straps, narrow and wide, instead of the tubes?

I love your.videos and this experiment! A change you may consider is decreasing the distance between the electrodes within stage 2 from stage 1 by adding 2 electrodes (for a total of 12 electrodes) while increasing voltage for stage 2 by 30% of stage 1 (65,000 volts). Then in stage 3, add 2 electrodes of stage 2 (for a total of 14 electrodes) while increasing voltage yet again to 30% of stage 2, each previous stage (84,500 volts). Your voltage generator should obviously be set to 84,500 volts then you can decrease it for stages 2 and 1. You also should consider decreasing the diameter of each stage and eliminating the flanges from stage 3 to speed up the airflow internally by compressing the airflow. Also try a slightly smaller flange at the rear to help compress the airflow as well. Stage 1: 10 electrodes at 50,000 volts. Stage 2: 12 electrodes at 65,000 volts, Stage 3: 14 electrodes at 84,500 volts. Stage 4: 16 electrodes at 109,850 volts (this is now becoming inefficient as it will start airflow eddies behind your flanges and dangerous) . If you want to go to 4 stages, then add stage -1 using 8 electrodes at 35,000 volts (adding the stage -2 would also be inefficient) Let me know what you think or what you results are.

Thanks again for this. It is a huge improvement compared to Mark 1. I have been logging your results as I am planning to integrate this into another known technology to produce a combination that could substitute for a turbofan engine, albeit a much smaller one. It's great that you managed to utilise a lower voltage for this as I did have major concerns on your Mark 1 that needed 45 kV to run lol. All the best on future improvements, and perhaps we can compare notes in the future. Cheers!

ideas: 1) Your speedy air molecules are getting slowed down by the slower moving air particles coming in from the side. 2a) having a greater voltage at each stage will speed the air along much quicker. 2b) As voltage rises at each stage, the distance between electrode and anode needs to increase. You can build a chart for this as it should be fairly standard once you do hundreds of tests. 3) Each time you hear an arc "snap" from positive to negative, you lose thrust not just at and around the spark, but because you use one wire per stage, you lose thrust down the entire length of the wire for a moment. Run a test and watch the voltage drop. It's for part of a second but it hurts more and more with increasing air flow!

@attentionhorse7032

6 ай бұрын

Spot on! I really hope he sees this since its the most coherent comment i've seen on this comment section. May I ask, what's your field of expertise?

It would take a shit ton of work / redesign, but I am curious if you made the grounds in a propeller shape (not just elongated but twisted too) and had vanes in the intakes that created a vortex / spiral flow if that would make an noticeable difference? ( the vanes and grounds would need to create complimentary vortices to maximize the effect, ugh that's some heavy maths) I believe if the right angles are achieved it would increase thrust output. Or maybe something simpler, you make one long tapered cylinder and with a minimum of 3 rows of thrusters you have them turned 120% from each other (if 3 and 90% if 4 and so on and so forth) and using a complimentary propeller shape for the grounds it will start to compress the air from the larger intake towards the smaller outlet. Maybe some compression or compression + vortices = some nice gains?

Have you used a "Turnbuckle?" Two Opposing Threaded rods in a wide Gapped Center! Turning one way "Shortens" the Total Length, and tirning the opposite way, lengthens the total length! A system like that, for the Guide / Spacer Rods might allow easier testing to determine better or Optimal Gaps between inlets, and Rings, as well as between stages. Varying of High Voltages might also reveal benefits or trends.

You might want to mix it with a wind multiplier (from a bladeless fan) to check the improvement on the wind output, also you might want to smooth your materials to have less drag coheficient from any pores or tiny bumps in the 3d printing (like polishing the materials or sand it)

@ianball3972

Жыл бұрын

I was going to suggest the same thing ... Try replacing the impeller on a "dyson" style fan and see if you can take advantage of low pressure twice.... also I agree with another poster about reduction per stage to attempt velocity boost

@richpryor9650

Жыл бұрын

What about using the principle of a golf ball by leaving the surface rough?

@yorelescovar2716

Жыл бұрын

@@richpryor9650 golf balls are pretty smooth, even the dimples holes, but that only works with propelled/push by motor/engine/bat/club/arm objects in movement to gain speed through creating an air layer/turbulence to change the airflow on the back of the object... this principle does not work on static objects though... unless you put a golf ball in front of the thrusters... hehehe

For your plane idea, you're going to have to make, and integrate the thrusters as the form factor of the wing itself. You'll need custom solar power to augment battery built-in to the lift planes as well because of how much power you need to draw.

What I want to know is how this will work in a near vacuum with just interstitial solar material and eventual interstellar material. How about the idea of using low mass rockets to achieve LEO, and eventual elliptical orbit ejection from both planetary and solar orbit, as the vehicle gains enough momentum while the onboard reactor powers ejecta out of the vehicles rear nozzle. Is there even enough mass in vacuum for the vessel to accelerate to gain momentum?

What about making each of the modules a bit smaller than the one preceding it, perhaps creating a venturi principal effect? Or, putting a cone on the end? Also, an aerodynamic enclosure surrounding it might possibly help focus airflow?

For increasing exit velocity, perhaps you can make the ionic thrust sections at a larger diameter (might need to print in sections). Then have one more Venturi funnel just after the last stage that necks down to a smaller exit diameter (there might be some fluid dynamic formulae to find the optimal entry:exit diameter ratio) Jet engines kinda do this too, so perhaps by squeezing a larger volume of air through a smaller opening, you might gain some velocity. Since you have made the cathodes more aerodynamic, perhaps you could also increase grid density along with the bigger entrance diameter? This is fascinating stuff!

Hi jay, I'm Parsa, a fluid dynamics-focused mechanical engineer. Amazing work on your plasma thruster prototype! I can offer some advice as an expert in the field to help you better optimize your design. Consider making each subsequent stage smaller in diameter and closing the opening between stages. This should enhance your design and accelerate airflow.

If you multiply that by an increase up to 6 or 8 feet tall (of combined thrusters tube)....What does that give you in term of speed in m/s? And even if you multiple number of tubes in parallel...of up to 4 or 6 tubes...What does that also give you?

Do you get more volume with a larger diameter thruster? Say, 16 inches? Just curious if you tried