I agree, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai should just come together and build the hydrogen fueling infrastructure. Thanks for the extensive hydrogen commentary, Alex.

@nikhilsrl

2 жыл бұрын

I think they can if they want to. It would be good to have options and this does feel like a decent middle ground.

@laurarobinson1699

Жыл бұрын

With the new tax incentives for building infrastructure I hope they do!

Good review, but I'm getting tired of many reviewers slamming sedans as "not as practical" as a crossover. While it can be true, it's more likely not, and it depends on your requirements. There's no way any crossover is as sexy as a modern sedan. Again, my opinion goes against many others, but sedans are practical too.

If I lived in California, I would definitely get a Mirai. It is beautiful and provides the advantages of electric drive while eliminating the disadvantages of current charging situations.

In Japan and Europe, Toyota and Hyundai have actually invested in building hydrogen fueling stations (Konan Kogyou for example, a subsidiary of Toyota's, makes them in Japan). The reality is Toyota and Honda see Americans still like huge, gas guzzling vehicles everywhere except California and are just meeting the minimum zev requirements. I'm kind of excited about the plug-in Prius with hydrogen engine Toyota says is coming in ~2024. That could be a game changer in terms of hydrogen and infrastructure. Incidentally, I hate cup holders that can't accommodate a mug

@justabrokeredneck

2 жыл бұрын

what a sad life. excited for a new prius

@motch6182

2 жыл бұрын

@@justabrokeredneck well, if they make a plug-in hydrogen RAV4 that would be a huge game changer!! I think them starting at the Prius level is typical for Toyota. Prius has been notorious for testing all the new technology.

@justabrokeredneck

2 жыл бұрын

@@motch6182 yea but there’s no hydrogen infrastructure anywhere but california. and california is a shit hole

@motch6182

2 жыл бұрын

@@justabrokeredneck agreed! Huge problem that our government doesn’t want to address! Not sure why, because I know they pour millions of dollars into some research companies to develop the Fuel Cell. I used to work for one, so again, they spend all this money on the research and now that it’s working, they aren’t dumping the money into the infrastructure!? Go figure!!

@peterlai9018

2 жыл бұрын

They get to work out how to liquefying hydrogen gas to increase volumetric energy density.

Saw somebody using this for Uber/Lyft today in San Diego! Interesting choice given we only have a single H2 filling station here and it's out in the suburbs...

@brixan...

2 жыл бұрын

Memorable ride though. Maybe he's hoping for good reviews based on the car

@tianenjiang4674

2 жыл бұрын

I heard there will be one opening this year around Mission Center Rd. but it most likely is postponed to early next year.

@hychiu1610

2 жыл бұрын

My coworker just bought one, I think Toyota included a incentive to pay for fuel for 2 or 3 years I think.

@GautamPrabhakar

2 жыл бұрын

@@hychiu1610 free fuel for 6 years worth $15k with the new Gen2 Mirai

I love the idea of Toyota making very large hydrogen vehicles. A fuel-cell Tundra or Sequoia would be a fantastic American EV that Toyota is uniquely positioned to make with 450+ miles of range. Obviously, Toyota would need to be willing to get directly involved in spreading hydrogen fueling stations in the US.

@nevco8774

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly: Toyota is more interested in selling gasoline vehicles than EVs, Hydrogen cell vehicles or even PHEVs. Even with their traditional HEV hybrids Toyota is not so much advancing its car lineup for a simple reason: unwillingness to deal with batteries’ shortages and refueling/recharging headaches. The only one wild guess is it’s behind the scenes solid state battery technology development Toyota is betting on.

@hmken668

2 жыл бұрын

Once the gas giants join, fueling stations will not be a problem. Toyota just need focus on making progress on technologies.

It's pretty well known in the industry that this vehicle is the cancelled Lexus GS, hence the very Lexus-like proportions, design language, and interior. Toyota invested a lot into the development of the GS before it was cancelled, and instead of wasting all of that they repurposed it for the Mirai.

@andoletube

2 жыл бұрын

Well, recycling is good for the environment, I suppose! 😅

@shanemcfarland1368

2 жыл бұрын

Looks alot like a Avalon so that makes since

@Smileydudekxy

2 жыл бұрын

This car was made on the LS platform, what are you talking about

20:06* Peeing on your garage floor”…spit out my afternoon coffee laughing at this, good one!

@erstwhilegrubstake

2 жыл бұрын

Same but mine was my afternoon Vodka.

@justabrokeredneck

2 жыл бұрын

20:06*

I have a 2021 Mirai XLE. The biggest thing that is holding these vehicles back by far is the fueling infrastructure. Our vehicle hasn't even come close to the fuel range numbers stated by Toyota due to numerous issues that the fueling stations in my area encounter on a daily basis. Otherwise, its been a great and reliable driving experience so far.

It's funny you just posted this, I live in San Jose and I just bought a Mirai Limited yesterday. It's an awesome car, I don't think you really gave it it's due

I’m totally in favor of hydrogen instead of all electric cars hopes Toyota continues to develop this technology further

We had the Marai for three years. Constant station outages and supply issues. Closest station was 6 Miles away. The car was great, no complaints. Bought the Mach e and love it. The fuel situation was so bad I would never get another hydrogen car again. If there were 5 cars Infront of you to fill it would take almost 40 minutes to be your turn. Definitely not quick. The new version looks great but passed on it due to the station issues. Charging your car at home is so much better and costs less.

@justabrokeredneck

2 жыл бұрын

but compared to charging an electric car that’s not bad. it’s 40 minutes/car sometimes. ive had to wait for 3 hours for a charger once on a trip. i didn’t have the range to make it to the next one.

@philv3941

2 жыл бұрын

99% of your charges ARE domestic. Since the beggining, EV are allways be a smarter idea. And we don't speak of energy efficiency or carbon emissions.

@GautamPrabhakar

2 жыл бұрын

Not everyone has a charger at home. I live in an apartment in SF bay area and have no chargers near home, but have 3 H2 fueling stations near my home/work and in 7-8 months of ownership of Gen2 Mirai, almost never had an issue with refueling. My average refueling time is 10 mins for 400 miles! The car drives like a dream and is really a luxurious and refined ride. No complaints and no regrets! If one has stations near home and work, there is no better commuter car on the market

@philv3941

2 жыл бұрын

@@GautamPrabhakar : superchargers VS h2 stations : if you are forced to charge outdoor, H2 keeps its problems of efficiency and costs. And of course if you can charge at home, the debate have no sense. ( in europe we have the "right to have a plug" : you can't block someone to install a plug in the car park of your condo. To put plugs everywhere have more sense than to install million-dollar H2 station everywhere.

@GautamPrabhakar

2 жыл бұрын

@@philv3941 FCEV global efficiency is equivalent or higher than BEVs. The local efficiency of BEVs being higher is true but irrelevant and used as a propaganda propagated by battery industry. In reality, for a grid which is 100% renewable, you need massive amount of static energy storage by using H2 to avoid curtailment and energy wastage, which effectively means that a BEV will be running on significant amount of hydrogen anyway and hence for global efficiency of the system, FCEVs are equivalent to BEVs (some studies show they can be upto 20-30% better depending on your RE mix). Cost: you might not have heard but there are now clear pathways to get to less than $1/kg of green hydrogen by end of the decade. Read about the new electrolyzers being developed by Stiesdal and Reliance India with billions of dollars of investment being poured into them (link below). Surely they have done their research before pouring billions into H2 infrastructure and developing fuel cells. The reality is that we need both BEVs and FCEVs to decarbonize the transportation sector, since neither approaches work for everyone and are in fact, complimentary to each other in many ways. Anyone who says otherwise is either misinformed or has vested interests. www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/asias-richest-man-to-build-gigafactory-to-mass-produce-stiesdal-s-new-low-cost-hydrogen-electrolyser/2-1-1079626

Thanks Alex for your standardized and comprehensive review, I always look forward to your reviews. I’m betting Hydrogen vehicles will long term win out, I know they are slow out of blocks but to me it boils down to the factors you have already outlined. A BEV does not make sense to me from a convenience or a road trip point of view. I’m also betting the Trucking industry will go FCEV route EVENTUALLY so we WILL see infrastructure due to that alone Battery powered trucks don’t make sense to me. And If I want to tow something a FCEV makes even more sense as you have already outlined from a convenience perspective. I’m not going to stop and wait for a 45 minute charge after what maybe 200 miles? at best, nope not happening it’s just not convenient.

I am surprised a bigger deal is not made about battery size. This car has an almost 100 times smaller battery than a BEV and can still travel almost 400 miles. I think people underestimate how much in the way of natural resources are required for modern battery production. Is there even enough to go around? remember peak oil? I would not be surprised if there is much less of the rare, expensive, and dirty to acquire materials available by Mother Earth. Which is better 1 car with a 100KW battery or 100 cars with a 1KW battery? In combination with "refill" time, to me this is the unsung advantage of Hydrogen.

@vinnytube1001

2 жыл бұрын

With 1% of cars sold globally being BEV, it's using up nearly 60% of global battery production. The math indeed doesn't work out.

@Tokamak3.1415

2 жыл бұрын

Except the problem is 99% of hydrogen created today is from fossil fuels. You're simply stripping the hydrogens off the carbon chains and the CO2 is still getting released, so it doesn't help the climate change issue. The electrical grid needs to be built out. We need mag lev to get rid of planes (over land anyways), + output fusion reactors to create excess electricity, and THEN the excess electricity can be used to electrolyse H20 and make a clean hydrogen fuel that beats BEVs. Hydrogen is readily available inside our sun - we just can't grab it with a long ladle.

@DJPleasureSeekingMissle

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t harness its full potential. I commend Toyota for offering a vehicle like this. Sounds much more sustainable then digging up massive holes in the ground and extracting rare earth metals.

5.6 kg of fuel for 402 miles of range. Amazing. I wish H2 fuel stations were as widespread as electric charging stations.

@theevermind

2 жыл бұрын

And that 5.6 kg only costs $92, meaning $0.22/mi. My gas car costs me $0.09/mi, even with the recent run up in gas prices. If I were driving an EV, it would be closer to $0.03/mi. And a hydrogen station costs ~$5M to build, while a fast charging station like Tesla's costs under $100k. That's the reason Tesla was able to build their own charging stations across three continents on their own while Toyota begs govt to pay for hydrogen stations.

@shivamarya5225

2 жыл бұрын

@@theevermind it costs about $1M to build but you need to special permission to build hydrogen stations since its flammable and like petrol stations unlike electric charging. they've spend a lot of money on hydrogen cars and the main reason they don't make their own hydrogen stations is because they can't do that without permissions and a the hydrogen producers themselves made a monopoly on hydrogen filling stations they dont sell hydrogen to other filling stations when they can sell it themselves.

@bluenycom

2 жыл бұрын

Per unit, it's probably much more expensive to build hydrogen station than DC fast charge EV stations. They still have to deal storage and delivery, presumably by trucks. Some may counter that it's expensive to expand the electric grid to support the EV stations. That is true but it's probably easier to expand what's there already than to build completely new infrastructure like hydrogen stations. It's all about cost. It's certainly possible, but is it financially profitable to do so.

@kevinweber5129

2 жыл бұрын

Hydrogen needs to be 10 times the number of locations that EV charging stations because you can't fill this up at home. Unless Toyota is willing to spend 10 Billion on installing hydrogen stations all around the country this technology will lose to tesla which keeps building more stations and selling more cars. Toyota better move these next 3 years.

@shivamarya5225

2 жыл бұрын

@@kevinweber5129 no hydrogen stations are like gas stations, it can you up in less than a minute so the wait never gets too long and you only need as much stations as gas stations, even the fastest charging stations take at least 30 min for a charge.

I'd really like to see hydrogen vehicles become as prevalent as EVs. I don't want to freaking plug my car in.

@kevinweber5129

2 жыл бұрын

I can't find any Hydrogen stations in Florida. So I guess I'll go with Tesla. This Technology isn't going anywhere unless Toyota builds tens of thousands of fueling stations.

@pdd3

2 жыл бұрын

@@kevinweber5129 Tens of thousands of fueling stations are not needed for this. It's growing with less than 100. Strategically placed 2000 stations in all of US would be enough to serve a million hydrogen vehicles.

Other Hydrogen advantages From a network distribution point of view, you can produce locally but also, that's the key point, hydrogen can be moved by simply using trucks and common roads over long distances. You can also store it. So, even if nobody use it immediately, you can produce Hydrogen for a later use. Love your show, very good work.

Had a gen 1 during the 2019 “Hydrocalypse” no fuel for nearly six months. Have a gen 2 now with the recent summer mini-Hydrocalypse no fuel for four weeks. When fuel is available, stations often experience mechanical breakdowns, in part because some owners have no clue how to connect-disconnect the nozzles correctly. The 2021 Mirai is beautiful and lovely to drive - just beware the H2 infrastructure.

Such a big car but has less backseat room than the Corolla. I was surprised when you showed the interior space and how cramped it is.

The rumour is that this Mirai is the leftovers from the cancelled next generation Lexus GS. This makes a lot of sense if you look at the proportions, at the full length lightbar at the rear which resembles all the new Lexus lightbars, and the dashboard which has a very similar shape to the one in the new Lexus NX.

Perfect tech for trucking industry

@davidmccarthy6061

2 жыл бұрын

If they had a million more drivers.

@sammydavis991

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidmccarthy6061 why drive a truck when the government of Canada will pay you to stay home. We have a very generous Covid bank up here.

Excellent Review !

Hydrogen seems like a great solution for long haul trucking, where major crossroads areas can have fueling stations. It seems silly for normal drivers where EVs can be plugged in anywhere there's electricity, which is basically the whole country.

@theevermind

2 жыл бұрын

Long haul truckers already pay $100k+ in fuel bills each year. Hydrogen would more than double that cost. They don't want that. And considering the cost will be passed on to anything they carry, consumers don't want it either.

@Empiro3

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like autonomous freeway driving (which is easier than local driving) will be ready by the time any sort of national hydrogen infrastructure is ready. Long haul trucking will probably be the first thing to make widespread use of autonomous freeway driving. If that happens, hydrogen trucks won't be able to compete. It won't matter if a battery truck's range is short and you have to stop every hour to charge. It'll still cover more ground in a day compared to a human driver because it won't need to rest. Hydrogen trucks won't be able to compete here because of the higher fuel cost.

@xpengfangirl7942

2 жыл бұрын

thanks Will, china sends love

@jimj2683

2 жыл бұрын

It all depends how cheap they will be able to make green hydrogen.

@anncokafor

Жыл бұрын

@@Empiro3 Wishful thinking. Autonomous driving still has decades to go.

Alex, I hope you did a 'mic drop' at the end of this video because you certainly earned it . 10/10 . Take the weekend off!!!

I wanted to buy this, but I live in Las Vegas. You'd think there'd be hydrogen stations over in California, jr... but no.

@timaustin2000

2 жыл бұрын

Obviously the Nevada government have more sense than to waste $1million a pump on a white elephant that could only fuel 3 models, one of which has been discontinued and all of which are sold in very small volumes. When I got my EV, charging infrastructure for it cost £200 and attached to the side of my house in one morning. Government and manufacturer of my car paid for it. This is all I need for 90% of my journeys. You can see why battery vehicles have already won this battle

@xpengfangirl7942

2 жыл бұрын

thanks aspirated, order teslas, china delivers, trust us

The Toyota Mirai What the Toyota Avalon could've/should've been

It's one of the best cars I ever tested, front seats are amazing, drives very comfortable and quiet. However, using a hydrogen car even in SF Bay Area is sometimes a nightmare - filling stations are rear and there are time when there is no hydrogen in the area at all! I already used Toyota free towing service twice and had a few weeks when I could not use my Mirai. Another problem is that only a limited number of Toyota dealers service this car. One of a few ones in the area is in San Jose and I was not very happy with experience there. Others don't want to even change a tire!

There were several first generation Mirais in The Hague, Netherlands. The city used them to transport the elderly and disabled. Also, I saw TV commercials for the Hyundai Nexo there.

Because this was a 5th Gen Lexus GS that was rebadged to be this.

There are 3 hydrogen stations within 20 miles of me. Two of them are True Zero and one is “Iwattani”. One true zero station says: “UPDATE 10-18-21 1:30PM: Station is offline for mechanical equipment failure. We will post a return to service date/time when available. Please check here for station status and updates before traveling to the station. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. - Your True Zero” So that station has been down for at least 4 days. The other True Zero station: “UPDATE 10-21-21 8:00AM: Station is offline due to an equipment issues, station will be offline until Sunday 10/24. A technician has been notified and will dispatch shortly. Please check here for station status and updates before traveling to the station. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. - Your True Zero” So that station has been dispatching a technician for 3 days and they still haven’t fixed it.

I have to think the reason no one's come forward to build a hydrogen refueling network is that, unlike Tesla's Supercharger network, there is no pre-existent network for distributing hydrogen to be tapped into, unlike the electrical grid which Tesla makes use of. That does make me interested to see what happens in South Korea, where the government has made a "hydrogen economy" a major focus, and major petrochemical refinery companies like SK (who also make batteries) are looking for ways to diversify into greener industries.

@skywalker2852

2 жыл бұрын

@aquaticko, I think the counter argument is that Hydrogen can be produced with an electrolyzer wherever you have sources of electricity and water. That's "almost anywhere".

@EUC-lid

2 жыл бұрын

@@skywalker2852 sure, but you can charge a whole bunch of EVs with the energy it takes to create and compress the hydrogen to fill the tank on a single FCEV. There's now way to avoid the fact that a FCEV will always be significanly less efficient than EVs. Hydrogen has a future in aviation, trains, and marine shipping where battery sizes and weight are impractical. It makes no sense in cars with current EVs.

@skywalker2852

2 жыл бұрын

@@EUC-lid Agreed on the efficiency comparison - at least given current tech. Battery efficiency and power density are constantly improving. I would have to think similar focus on Hydrogen production would produce efficiency gains. I worry that the heavy, heavy batteries used in EV solutions for trucks and buses will results in large vehicles that are inefficient, detrimental to our road surfaces, and even dangerous (crash energy). We likely don't need "one solution" for all vehicle types.

Unique ownership experience -: you drive 400 miles and park it until a hydrogen infrastructure is built. Meanwhile a PHEV hybrid is practical, durable and usable... Now.

Reminds me of the VHS vs Beta battle. Hydrogen fuel cells seems to be the more logical choice, but would like to see more test in cold climate. Thanks for your review Alex.

@joshuaychung

2 жыл бұрын

I do wonder what happens to the water that is produced as a byproduct of using H2. When the temperature drops below freezing, will that water just freeze on the car or, worse yet, freeze on the road?

@timaustin2000

2 жыл бұрын

Technology wins battles due to efficiency. The only time this is not true is when cost favours the inefficient solution (VHS/Betamax). Batteries and power grid solutions are undoubtedly the more efficient solution - both for production and use of the fuel, as well as the packaging within the vehicle and peak power available. Which would mean nothing if Hydrogen was the cheapest option,... But it isn't. Not remotely close. It is the more expensive option by some distance. It can't win. This is being bourne out in the real world right now where manufacturers have all but abandoned it and BEV charging infrastructure is increasing exponentially. There will be no third gen Clarity. There will be no third gen mirai.

@marksmadhousemetaphysicalm2938

2 жыл бұрын

As the VHS vs Betamax battle proved...in the end, its economics and "good enough" that matters to companies...and the vast majority of consumers...they want it to be a) cheap and b) good enough...so it will depend on who can solve the infrastructure problem...🤔 neither are doing great...but EVs are light years ahead. I wonder where we will be in 20 years though...🤷‍♂️

Alex, I don't really know how to say this but we need to talk about the 'next Avalon' :-( The Mirai itself is just head, leg and cargo room short of being called the Toyota Miracle®

@ethanmckibbin

2 жыл бұрын

The Avalon that was discontinued or?

Dear Alex on Autos, please do a video on why growing corn for the sole purpose of converting into ethanol biofuel is bad for our environment, food supply, and society.

While Toyota and Honda betted on hydrogen vehicles. They killed their possibility to win the Hydrogen vs Battery electric battle by deciding not to install their own refilling stations. Tesla went the opposite way and showed their proof of concept worked. Which encouraged other private companies to create more charging station. Leading battery electric vehicles winning the battle and being the future. Great video Alex!

@justabrokeredneck

2 жыл бұрын

would much rather have hydrogen over electric. my tesla is cool and fast but i can get over the fact that it makes no sound

@hmken668

2 жыл бұрын

Toyota and Honda need not follow to do what Tesla is doing at all. The infrasture will be done by the gas giants when the hydrogen technology is mature.

@justabrokeredneck

2 жыл бұрын

@@hmken668 nah gas is dying and they’re scared

I work on the railway, and I’ve always heard about trains going the hydrogen route. That’s what I would like to see one day. As for cars, a mixture of EV, hydrogen and alt fuels will be the future. Pure EV never made sense to me

They need to build it out so you can get to Vegas.

It's good that it is a sedan.

Nice review Alex. One item of note - you compared the 12 pounds of H2 in the Mirai to the 2,000 pounds of battery in a battery-electric car. Not really an apples-to-apples comparison. The H2 is the fuel while the battery is the container (w/ permanent fuel). To compare them equally, you'd have to include the Mirai's H2 holding tank and related components (plus the fuel load) to the BEV battery. I fully expect the H2EV to still win such a comparison by a large margin - but at least the comparison would be fair.

@cbarcus

2 жыл бұрын

Battery pack specific energy is about 150-210 Wh/kg currently. Toyota’s 700 bar tanks have a gravimetric capacity of 5.7%. Their fuel cell’s specific power is probably about 2 kW/kg and capable of over 60% efficiency. A new development in hydrogen storage (a metal hydride) promises a gravimetric capacity of about 10% (effectively 2000+ Wh/kg) while increasing energy density. A new heavy duty standard for dispensing hydrogen (H70HF) can effectively fill a large tank at over 10 MW (10 kg-H2 / min). Charging for BEVs is in the range of 100s of kW, and that rate is not sustained. Heavy duty BEVs will probably have megawatt chargers.

@scottkolaya2110

Жыл бұрын

It's more than just tanks, which are surprisingly heavy at ~300lbs for the Mirai, it's the entire system that you have to compare to the battery and the battery is part of the car's frame structure, too. The Mirai has to be physically bigger to accommodate all the fuel cell stuff while having a smaller interior room. An easy comparison is a Mirai and a Model 3. The Mirai weighs 4335lbs and the Model 3 long range (biggest battery) weighs 4250lbs and the Mirai has much less passenger and cargo room. People can give you energy densities, etc but the proof is in the cars that get actually built that account for everything.

Sedans still have the best design look.

Kind of odd that Accord and Camry was left off the vehicle comparison list.

3:59 This thing is like alien technology.

Alex, how are the resale values?

18:20 There is a security positive to having a truly concealed trunk with no folding seatbacks. 20:00 With as fanatical as people are now about "hydration", wouldn't it be cool to have a pure water dispenser on the dash?!

@HiyasuJ

2 жыл бұрын

Pure h2o water is actually bad for you.

@pasad335

2 жыл бұрын

@@HiyasuJ It's a simple matter to have a little re-mineralizer cartridge so that it's not 'pure' water.

@garrettw99

2 жыл бұрын

@@HiyasuJ I think Tommy at TFL took a sip of the urine of the Mirai. He said it tasted like minerals and it was really bad

@oi32df

2 жыл бұрын

Subscribers of this channel , you know that here, it's the comfort index of the gallon of milk in the console that matters .

toyota is so awesome

What about a fuel cell version of the Toyota 86? Or a fuel cell sports car. Most performance cars only have two seats, so you could maybe stick the fuel cell up and maybe a couple electric motors for the front two wheels up front and and the back set of electric motors in the back, with the batteries and hydrogen tanks sorta occupying the space in the middle?

It's one of the rarest unless you live in the SF Bay Area like I do haha I think there are at least 5 or 6 in the neighborhoods around my area lol

I will never buy an electric vehicle but alternate fuels vehicle like this using something like hydrogen I would buy.

At least there is a reason hydrogen cars should exist

Why aren’t the Honda Clarity or Hyundai Nexo hydrogen cars considered the “best hydrogen car” as opposed to the Toyota Mirai? When the specs where compared at launch sometime around 2017 it seemed like the Honda was superior

I want this but I live in NYC...we have hydrogen fuel stations but we don't get Mirai

@jimmurphy5355

2 жыл бұрын

I can't find any public H2 stations outside of California in the USA. A Google search turns up references to a couple sites, but a deeper look finds they were once open, and are now closed. I don't believe there is a single remaining anywhere except CA.

I see quite a few Mirai's and a few Nexos. I live near a hydrogen station. Do they partner with brands? I usually fill up with gasoline at Chevron and they have True Zero H2. We're a bedroom community 50 miles from LA so the Mirai would make sense as a commuter (carpool access). For me as a single vehicle owner I still think a plugin hybrid (gasoline) would make the most sense for me.

@Mabeylater293

2 жыл бұрын

Why live near a fueling station when you can live IN a fueling station - your house. Bev is the much better tech.

@garrettw99

2 жыл бұрын

50 miles north or south of LA? I’m 50 miles south

No folding rear seat because the LS 500 chassis has never had a folding rear seat ( this is an LS 500) has nothing to do with fuel tank/cell ( it’s under the seat not behind it)

If Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are ever going to be a real option, or even a consideration for them to be long distance vehicles; then infrastructure will need to dramatically improve. There are over a dozen stations the San Francisco Bay Area. Then there are lots in Los Angeles. But how many are on I-5? Well, there are 3 around Sacramento and 1 at Harris Ranch. So basically, it is a limited market vehicle for the Tech company employees in the Bay Area, the over crowded Los Angeles area and that's it.

Ok Alex… can you talk about how hydrogen is created ? The inefficiency of creating hydrogen to then convert into propulsion vs just going EV directly? Its 3-4x more energy efficient to use electricity directly to move a battery EV … we shouldn’t be talking up hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and not address the elephant in the room … you cant ignore the physics… i love your review style otherwise … and the amount of water necessary to create the hydrogen if created by electrolysis or the dirty conversion of natural gas to create hydrogen … its not a solution to de-carbonize transportation ! Never mind the non existent availability of filling up your hydrogen car… hydrogen fuel cells are a fools errand. Btw Hyundai announced going ALL in on hydrogen… digging their own graves along with Toyota. Who do you think is pushing hydrogen ? Natural gas producers … super dirty and “renewable” methods dont pencil out due to the waste of efficiency with the creation of the hydrogen. Hydrogen fuel cells vehicles are not the answer

I though bmw is also offering hydrogen vehicles as well I do is they used to offer it for the 7 series a hydrogen model

Interesting, Spyros Panopoulos

These companies need to make the refuel stations.

Hydrogen. It’s future. Whatever obstacles now.

when you grabbed the camera 😳

rear light designs certainly look better than the Prius prime..plenty times better. if only they had a car with the front design of the prius prime but the rear of the new mirai-well i guess thats kinda the corolla haha

Can hydrogen filling mechanics be incorporated into current gas stations.?

@xpengfangirl7942

2 жыл бұрын

no, get lost

It would have been more appropriate to make it a two-door and keep the hinges that remain for a rear hatch. Rear seat space is ridiculous & useless . At least they would have had the excuse of being able to fold down . Aesthetically I like long doors & B pillars more towards the rear, which would have been very well integrated here.

Hyundai is selling hydrogen semi-trucks in Switzerland.

@xpengfangirl7942

2 жыл бұрын

Lier

@joa8593

2 жыл бұрын

Hyundai is a dominant force in hydrogen trucks. Toyota is a leader in hydrogen buses, which surprisingly have a great operating cost profile.

@xpengfangirl7942

2 жыл бұрын

@@joa8593 lies, forget hydrogen scam,, china will ge sure to eliminate hydrogen threat, keep ordering teslas with FSD, china needs loan repayment

@DJPleasureSeekingMissle

2 жыл бұрын

@@xpengfangirl7942 lol

Are there any manufacturers that are interested in following Tesla’s model of simultaneously introducing hydrogen vehicles and an infrastructure to support them? It seems that hydrogen has many advantages that could enable it to become much more acceptable as long as there were enough places to refill.

@205rider8

2 жыл бұрын

Hyundai is.

Any thoughts on a plug-in hybrid FCV? Something comparable in drivetrain proportions to a 1st gen or 2nd gen Volt, or a "coded" i3? ~30-50mi EV plus a fuel cell capable of sustaining power output for 80mph. I'm curious how packaging a 50kw FC might compare to something like the scooter engine in the i3.

@nc3826

2 жыл бұрын

great minds think alike :)..... but I'm betting on Methanol beating out Hydrogen as the preferred fuel for serial hybrid FCVs

@joa8593

2 жыл бұрын

Toyota is bringing a plug-in hydrogen vehicle soon, the next Prius is supposed to offer that, but with a hydrogen combustion engine. They've said fuel cells are expensive so it makes sense to use them in vehicles that really need long range and won't benefit from plugging in and because they want governments to subsidize fueling stations they're worried putting a plug on the FCEV cars will reduce the perception that more stations are needed. (I.E. trucks and buses won't plug in anyway so government should pony up for hydrogen stations).

@joa8593

2 жыл бұрын

@@nc3826 I think YT deletes links, but if you Google it Forbes has an article. I agree, the lower efficiency makes hydrogen ICE normally a stupid idea, but I think Toyota's thought is you would use the battery for your commute and only use the ICE rarely for long road trips so to keep the vehicle cost down it makes sense to put a hydrogen engine over an expensive fuel cell. It's more of a range-extended BEV in concept.

@faeinthebay

2 жыл бұрын

Another issue is packaging. You'll need a fuel cell large enough to sustain hydrogen operation along with the 50-mile battery.

@nc3826

2 жыл бұрын

makes more sense for trucks.... where there is plenty of space to do it... and with less weight so higher payloads than a BEV

"The new 2nd generation Mirai is as beautiful as the 1st gen was ugly" lmao

@lionintu

2 жыл бұрын

I didn't even hear him say it yet but I'm already crying

@xpengfangirl7942

2 жыл бұрын

you work for bp? traitor

The love we share Seems to go nowhere And I've lost my light For I toss and turn, I can't sleep at night

Energy efficiency discussion is always misleading. People only talks about onboard efficiency but never including power generation from coal or gas power plant.

53 fueling stations in all North Amercia according to Google. 90% are in California

@jimmurphy5355

2 жыл бұрын

As of October 2021, the are literally NO public H2 stations on the USA outside of California. The ghost stations that show up in Google searches are all gone. But the internet never forgets, so it takes some digging to find out the stations Google finds outside California no longer exist.

Can't drive from LA to Fresno, Madera, Merced, Modesto etc. At least if you want to get home again. Exactly ONE h2 station along i5 toward SF, but not a single one along Hwy 99. I mean come on. How can you not have a single station in Bakersfield or Fresno? So no, not workable even in huge sections of California.

I’m barely able to get mine to go 320 miles on a full tank. I’d like to see someone getting 600 😂

I agree Alex, if the Toyota Avalon looked as good as the Mirai, Toyota would've had a hit on their hands. It sure makes me wonder about the people running Toyota that would approve using one of the most attractive looking sedan designs on a vehicle not available, except to a few. The outgoing Avalon had a face only the clowns at Toyota's California Design studio could love!

toyota should make fcv Grand Highlander.

California is very crowded with new people arriving everyday. Can Toyota design a " Preserve California" version that can't enter the state?

@faeinthebay

2 жыл бұрын

I don't understand your comment, nor how it related to the video.

@lawrenceralph7481

2 жыл бұрын

@@faeinthebay It's a turn of phrase, responding to his throw away quip,. .", "These cars can never leave California". Of course, when something is explained it loses it's novelty. If it needs explanation, it's just too obtuse...

How about a hydrogen El Camino or Transit Connect with an 8 foot bed? Should be quirky enough. I am tired of those who disparage an eight foot bed asking when have I ever slept with three others? That's quirky too!

I would drive hydrogen if the gas stations were there. I think hydrogen is better than Bev's and who doesn't love clean water.

And who is going to invest the millions/billions it will take for the infrastructure? Everybody was worried about electric car charging stations, wait'll they get a load of what it takes to develop a hydrogen station infrastructure...........

From Southern CA. to North CA. Please need fuel station.

Looks like the gv60

Too expensive to have a dedicated chassis with no weird bulge. If they can make fuel sell even smaller, it'd make for a great go-cart/race car.

25:29 Can it be fueled at home?

@backwoodsbungalow9674

2 жыл бұрын

A company in England developed a high pressure electrolyzer for overnight filling of a FCEV some years ago but has gone quiet on that product. The waste heat could be used for heating a domestic hot water tank.

i think they need to make an affordable version of these, maybe a version of the rav 4 or corrola hatchback.

When you can find more hydrogen filling locations in California, it may be an option. Until then, no way. Toyota, in America, are not committed to the Mirai. I was offered $25K off MSRP. The only toyota vehicle offered under MSRP. Blame the California also for not building the promised infrastructure. The state loves their gas tax as we approach $5 a gallon.

Great green tech if 100% green hydrogen but a total waste of time if the infrastructure is not there. Supercharger infrastructure is such an important part of their success, ask any Tesla buyer.....

I can get behind the idea of hydrogen for various vehicles, though I think battery wins in most cases for most cars, but still I believe there could be a place for the for a lot of people. That said, living in Minnesota, the idea of some hydrogen vehicle piddling water on the roads in january sounds like a recipe for accidents. I'm a little nervous about all the high horse power real wheen drive electric cars, though I expect the heavy battery weight will help there (fishtailing on i35 in a loaded real wheel drive enterprise van one winters night is the scariest road moment I've ever had and I'm still stunned we were not in a major accident) but this is a problem that needs to be solved before hydrogen cars hit the cold states.

@hmken668

2 жыл бұрын

Wow dude, what you talked about is not a problem at all. The peepee of Mirai happens only after you push the button of peepee.

@chrismartin2663

2 жыл бұрын

@@hmken668 can you push the button any time?

@hmken668

2 жыл бұрын

@@chrismartin2663 only when you are parking at a place proper for peepee

Did you think the new Mirai can do a round trip from LA to Vegas?

With Toyota technology they should be making boat and airplane motors.

@miraphycs7377

2 жыл бұрын

they actually do make boat motors. In Japan at least anyway

The issue is the cost of a H2 station vs a DC fast charger. A DC fast charger cost 50k, a hydrogen fuel station cost 500k-2m, that right there is why there's been no widespread adoption. They can make 10-40 fast chargers for every 1 station

@nc3826

2 жыл бұрын

average "total project cost" per DC fast charger really is $103,672 and one H2 station can fill cars much faster, so fat fewer are needed..... and H2 users will be much happier with the faster fill up.... fwiw the current HFCVs are a bad joke for many reasons, just not for what mentioned here....

@theevermind

2 жыл бұрын

From the reports I've seen, your cost for a hydrogen station are less than half. A conventional gas station will cost $1M+. And with EVs, 95%+ of all charging is at home. Home chargers only cost a few hundred to install. And they require zero time to drive to/from to fuel.

@nc3826

2 жыл бұрын

FWIW they can make FCVs with large enough battery packs to charge at nite too.... and just use the FC for much faster refueling for longer trips or towing... which would make far more sense....

@AAutoBuyersGuide

2 жыл бұрын

This is a non issue in reality because you don't need as many H2 stations. The main reason you need so many DC Fast Chargers is that you can't charge that many cars in an hour while the newer H2 stations can fill an H2 vehicle every 10-15 minutes depending on how much fuel is being used and that fuel takes you 2-3X farther than a DC fast charge stop.

@nc3826

2 жыл бұрын

@@AAutoBuyersGuide Agreed, but when it came to braking. This report stated the MachE had poorer braking performance due to its heavier weight (since its a BEV)... While in past reports, you stated its handling and braking issues was due to its relatively narrow profile tires.... You seem to selectively mention the facts that fit your narrative, while disregarding any contradictory facts.... When reporting about vehicles in the EV category, MHO..

Counterpoint Alex to the filling station argument. H2 stations cost alot more to build and can't as easily be added to random parking lots. Lots more investment money is needed.

@bikingmoments

2 жыл бұрын

Why would you add H2 station to random parking lots? It fills as fast as gas station and runs >400 miles per tank.

@monstercameron

2 жыл бұрын

@@bikingmoments It was a counterpoint to the Tesla supercharging network point. Tesla can build superchargers much more cheaply and in random parking lots while H2 is more complicated.

@bikingmoments

2 жыл бұрын

@@monstercameron I doubt if Tesla is really choosing random parking lots. They started from most interstate highway, then gradually expand to rural areas, which is what Toyota/Honda/Hyundai should replicate in order to make FCEV alive. If a hwy service plaza can have gas station and Tesla supercharger, you can surely add H2 station there, right?

@monstercameron

2 жыл бұрын

@@bikingmoments As someone who drives a Tesla M3 in Miami, most of the superchargers are in Mall and outlet mall parking lots. Alot of Wawa's too. Mostly in parking lots. I've done a road trip to jacksonville recently and you have to pull off the highway to find a supercharger, which was mostly in parking lots.

@AAutoBuyersGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Not sure what you mean about not being able to be added to random locations. H2 stations require considerably less power, so in areas of the country without high-current 3-phase power you can put an H2 station if you wanted to. In my neck of the woods (literally woods) the local gas station has no 3-phase power, nor do any of the stores or parking lots which is why I live in a DC fast charge desert.

Wake up people….hydrogen is future plus toyotas realibility! Nice looking car toooooooo

Cars cost too much too limit them. Tesla figured that out and that's why he had chargers everywhere

Is that 15,000 mile free hydrogen total for the length of the leasse, or is it 15,000 free miles per year.If it is not per year, his reply about the cost of fueling being a non factor because of the free 15,000 miles is idiotic.

@techups3082

2 жыл бұрын

>Is that 15,000 mile free hydrogen total for the length of the leasse, or is it 15,000 free miles per year.If it is not per year, his reply about the cost of fueling being a non factor because of the free 15,000 miles is idiotic. You should re-watch. it is $15k in hydrogen spending. you got wrong units. it is not miles

@laurarobinson1699

Жыл бұрын

It’s $15,000 fuel card good for 6 years

RWD in a non EV is just great

@spencer476

2 жыл бұрын

It is an EV, just not a BEV

@xnopyt13

2 жыл бұрын

@@spencer476 you know what I mean

@spencer476

2 жыл бұрын

@@xnopyt13 I can indeed assume, but I try not to do that. I am not trying to be a smart alec, I just did not know for sure who I was dealing with.

@xnopyt13

2 жыл бұрын

@@spencer476 I see, I wasn’t being sarcastic or anything either.

@spencer476

2 жыл бұрын

@@xnopyt13 All good my friend.

Battery EVs are not a perfect solution around town because they're hauling around 1000s of pound of battery that are not needed for short trips. Whereas, hydrogen is perfect for long-hauling but not as practical for the shorter stuff. Seems like some sort of flexible dynamic hybrid design that weds the two might make for the perfect green vehicle.

@cavemankiwi

2 жыл бұрын

Agree. For me the best use case would be for full size pickups and SUVs. With 60~100 miles of battery before requiring the fuel cell.

@theevermind

2 жыл бұрын

For a city car & around-town driving, only a few hundred pounds of batteries are needed. For small, city, commuting cars, EVs are the ideal solution. For long-hauling, hydrogen is a terrible option because of the cost. Currently, hydrogen in CA costs over $16/kg. If you are putting a bunch of miles on a vehicle, you are also using up a lot of fuel, and fuel prices are a big deal. Also, good luck finding hydrogen stations. And don't expect those to pop up in other places, either. A conventional gas station will cost $1M to $3M to build. An EV fast charging station (like what Tesla builds) costs under $100k. Hydrogen stations, however, are around $5M. There's a reason Toyota, Hyundai, and other incredibly rich companies beg govt for help paying for hydrogen.

A car that requires half the time of a review to explain fuels is not ready for the public.

nyc will ban gas stations in like 15 years or something? i think they will convert to EV or hydrogen by then, something about carbon emissions and banning ICE sales, gas stations will have to do soemthing then

I suspect that over time, a lot the problems with the fueling infrastructure will start to disappear as more stations are built and the technology is refined. It is still early days yet.

@M1911jln

2 жыл бұрын

No, it won't. You can't cheat chemistry and physics. The simple fact of the matter is that a fuel cell electric vehicle is about 40% efficient compared to a BEV which is around 90% efficient. You will never get around that. Building a charging point for a BEV costs a couple thousand dollars. Building a hydrogen fueling station costs about $1M. Hydrogen can't be easily pumped. It is a very small molecule that leaks out of most materials. It requires special steels to be used, due to hydrogen embrittlement. And it is highly explosive (much more than natural gas). Hydrogen has very poor energy density by volume. To store large amounts of hydrogen, you either refrigerate it to very low temperatures (which costs a huge amount of energy that you don't get back) or you build huge tanks. Hydrogen is simply a stupid fuel for transportation.

@k1fizz

2 жыл бұрын

@@M1911jln Charging a BEV is not TIME efficient. Like Alex said, trade that efficiency for range and refueling speed.

@M1911jln

2 жыл бұрын

@@k1fizz 99% of BEV charging is done at night in your garage, when your car is not in use. That is actually very time efficient. With fast chargers, some BEVs can 100 miles of range in 10 minutes. That is more than enough for most people, who rarely go on road trips.

@k1fizz

2 жыл бұрын

@@M1911jln that actually proves my point. 100 miles in 10 mins is 10 miles gained per minute. Recharging a FCEV is 70 miles a minute and you don’t need to stop at 80%.

@mr74marco61

2 жыл бұрын

@@M1911jln that is what you have been told from EV manufacturers, no one cares about the efficiency when you're driving, you care about cost per mile and range, gas cars have 20% well to wheel efficiency so why did they even diffuse? hydrogen is the only solution to decarbonize heavy Industries and will be required in massive quantities making it cheaper and competitive even for transportation, and being the most available element in nature can be produced in multiple ways, by electrolysis, pyrolysis, from wastewater, by photocatalytic water splitting, just to name a few

ID BUZZ, VW better hurry up and make it happen already