the best part to me is how when Serral neural'd some Carrier at the end, he was building interceptors for Classic

@darekcharlet9214

8 ай бұрын

so he could attack while neural'd

@Mglunafh

8 ай бұрын

too much spare time, wanted to stacc them APM numbers

@davidstud3952

8 ай бұрын

LOL thanks, didn't catch that

@svengalt9546

8 ай бұрын

Good eyes. Muscle memory from off-racing took over when he got control of them: Have carriers? Spam that interceptor rebuild.

@OhmicContact

8 ай бұрын

The interceptors take from Serral’s Minerals..

Classic: "Wanna go late?" Serral: "So, you want to lose?"

@seraphimconcordant

8 ай бұрын

I have watched Starcraft for 10 years. For the past 5 or so a Protoss lategame army has never won. Ever. Maybe 1 out of 100 pro matches, if that, usually off a fluke or mistake from the zerg. Even if a protoss plays perfectly, it relies entirely on the zerg doing something wrong.

I didn't think this was a so great game. Just very long, but Serral was doing what he does best, stay patient, and just took the safest route to beat Classic. Classic lost a lot of money for free. Even made the cap yell to the screen.

This Serral guy seems to be pretty good at StarCraft 2

@tomwilson666

8 ай бұрын

Nah he just plays the strongest race

@trixzify

8 ай бұрын

Who is this

@user-ne1nw6hw2q

8 ай бұрын

@@tomwilson666 I also play zerg why am I in bronze 2?

@DamianSzajnowski

8 ай бұрын

​@@user-ne1nw6hw2qskill issue

@MrTroxism

8 ай бұрын

​@@tomwilson666You can't be serious 😂😂😂

Hey Harstem, I am so grateful for you casting this game. After struggeling against Skytoss for so long I was finally able to take down a 4,7k MMR master protoss by applying your knowledge from the game (ultras smashing canons, spore walls, lategame trades, ...). This is such a HUGE victory for me. Thank you so much an continue the great work!

Classic: “Chaos is a ladder”

Great game Serral is unreal at picking the right time to fight.

This was just a long slow death . . . Harstem don’t listen to the crowd.

36:26 - Serral lost 1 brood, 1 viper and 0 corruptors

"0oooo00oo talk dirty to me classic." LOLZ

cool game, great cast

It was over around 30 minutes in. There was no way Classic was coming back by the time he was around 20k down

teach a course about responsible personal finance based on SC macro theory

It's funny how different serral and dark are. I thought dark would win more H2H but it's not the case.

@harstem or anyone: could you please post serrals build order for this game? Or tell me where the replay can be had?

death by a thousand cuts

An island base surrounded by air

there is no benefit in hitting zerg eco when zerg has a bank and many hatcheries in a low action game. Zerg often makes this mistake going after terran SCVs with banelings and taking losing trades. Terrans can mule once the orbital count is high and it costs terran very little. Then there is a moment when the army is lower because you just lost a bunch of banelings.

Why down to zero probe? Resources is not finish mining yet

When was the last time a ZvP got to a 30m air bunker battle and the Protoss won?

@bigprank3964

8 ай бұрын

In 2011 a protoss once won a zvp lategame, it was Idra vs Huk Game 2 on Metalopolis

@rw6611

8 ай бұрын

Just a few weeks ago here was good cast with lategame ZvP Astrea vs Scarlett

@svengalt9546

8 ай бұрын

Watch games from before the last balance update. Happened all the time, when airtoss was dominant. Balance in this game is a pendulum.

@SD-jf7nb

8 ай бұрын

I pretty sure I saw Dark lose to herO not long ago with much the same comp, but queen corruptor for AA, herO had more ground, fewer Carriers.

I think what classic was going for was the equivilent of calf kick in ufc fights, where the point is the cumulative effect rather than the individual value. he was trying to undermine the foundation of serral by sniping hatches. but serral was too effective at defending it and in the end it failed unfortunately for classic. but it was an interesting strategy well thought out at least, and he played well and committed to the strategy. but it just wasn't effective against serral in the end. I think against most other players though this kind of strategy could be quite effective.

This is actually Serral vs Classic?

Skip the entire video until the last 45 seconds. It's the one and only fight in the entire 45 minutes long game.

Do Protoss win anything these days anymore?

@tylr3669

8 ай бұрын

Nope. Weak in the open ok in the mid weak in the late. Its just a race of janky strats. Protoss don't ever win, the other side throws the game. Like watching dark and hero. Its not so much hero winning as dark lost 10 drones for 2 adepts twice while having his queens out of position.

@PadTheMadLad

8 ай бұрын

To be fair, they absolutely own the Balance Whine Cup

@logicking3765

8 ай бұрын

@@PadTheMadLad I would whine too if the race is consistently underperforming at the highest level. Remember Terran in 2019?

@Fimbu1vetr

8 ай бұрын

No but Classic beat Serral 2-1 in this series

@indybruining

8 ай бұрын

@@Fimbu1vetr You also don't get to whine about losing to serral.

I agree. That was very 1-sided and never close

@harstem can you cast games in 4k with all settings on the highest? it would be way better!

@tree_eats

7 ай бұрын

For what purpose?

This game was over 25 minutes before the end

why would anyone request a cast of that?

Clever title.

I think Classic should have tried to mine out the outlying bases before taking the other bases. Destroying the Zerg hatcheries actually also hinders the Zerg's production. Somehow I think this game would have been a lot easier for Classic if he would be playing Terran XD

Hey, harstem, somehow we cannot change the video quality again

Toss needs to win in the early-mid game. Can’t go late

@JustinHall1468

8 ай бұрын

Toss can absolutely go late, just not after losing 25k more resources than your opponent.

@sc2youtube744

8 ай бұрын

​@@JustinHall1468toss can't win late in pro level. I can't even remember the last time I saw toss win in a situation like this

@JustinHall1468

8 ай бұрын

@@sc2youtube744 No race is ever going to win in a situation like this, because this situation was Classic being up 25k in resources loss. He completely misplayed the game and got to a point where he was on his last remax and Serral could still make his entire army another time. He misplayed, didn't prevent Serral from mining and lost.

@Lottar

8 ай бұрын

@@JustinHall1468 regardless of what happened earlier in the game, endgame Z army > endgame T army, and T army builds back very slow. I haven't seen toss win a lategame vs. zerg in pro level in forever - once the ships come out, it's over.

@coulombs465

8 ай бұрын

@@JustinHall1468 The reason Classic chose to play like that is because if he just sits back as protoss he loses to viper-corruptor with spore forests like every Protoss for the last 5 years vs Zerg.

Serral, best guerrilla warfare player in the late game. Using vipers to snatch high value protoss units

I don't watch Serral games, because I already know who's going to win.

Do you guys think classic could learn something from this cast? Or is he aware? Good stuff

wait adepts 1:45 almost kill a larva? dont they have a lot of armor

@betarob

8 ай бұрын

Larva are 10 light armor, adepts have bonus damage to Light and larva have very little HP.

he focus those hive and hatch because he want di other player not being able to max out before him if he lose the big fight. and be able to hit faster and harder

I never watched a less entertaining StarCraft2 game in my entire life.Thanks to Harstem for trying to make it interesting with some exemplary commentary.

@sc2youtube744

8 ай бұрын

I thought the reason it was requested was that classic was somehow going to win... what a waste of my time

@seraphimconcordant

8 ай бұрын

@@sc2youtube744 Same. We've all seen Serral win 100 games before. A legend like classic returning and teaching Protoss how to win against zerg late game? Phenomenal. But nope. Just confirms the fact that Protoss has NO CHANCE against Zerg late game. meanwhile the balance council hands out more protoss nerfs, lmao.

thanks harstem serral is da man

another ZvT, fantastic! Haven't watched it, but if you recommended it, its probably good :D

So you're telling me Serral found 35k resources of battle value, but only ended with 9k left? So Protoss can just waste 26k resources and still have a shot to win? Sounds imba.

@murk4545

8 ай бұрын

Well to be fair it’s because classic mined WAY more than serral over that game. Also idk if classic ever really had a shot to win. High level late game zerg seems really good, although I think anything under GM and protoss late game is actually brain dead in comparison to zerg late game

Toss players really be looking at a game where the toss went 35k resources lost more than a zerg and are complaining that it wasn't winnable because of balance.

IK people talk about how toss late game sucks vs Zerg, but These are such extreme examples. Serral is probably the best ever macro late game player of all time. Obviously he has the advantage. For most of us noobs, things are more balanced.

@jamomoritz6763

8 ай бұрын

I usually lose to toss late game on ladder. Feels the other way around.

Abduct and fungil is OP

To be honest we all knew how it ends up... feels like when protoss build tempest mothership carrier its a loss - even if interceptors were build for free it wouldnt be good enough unit

Not sure why this was requested so much. I found this very boring.

@Arigator2

8 ай бұрын

That paint was really drying.

Zerg imba

This game was pretty nice in the first 10 minutes. Everything that came after is the reason why SC2 ain't a good game. Camp festival because you can lose either army in a blink of an eye due to bad game design.

He was taking *liberties, not freedoms. They are similar words in spirit, so it is quite understandable. But this sort of precision is the difference between "conversational" and "fluent".

Wow kind of depressing

Tell me how zerg isnt imba when basically one infestor shot can end the fight. Not complaining about Serral, just wondering how is that possible that zerg has infestors which hard counters protoss (movement/maneuverability), terran has ghosts which one EMP can break the shields. I see this as a balance issue

Serral is up there with Maru for best and most consistent player for me. That being said. I am at 42:12 and it 100% feels like Serral is in DOMINATE position. However, I have seen somewhere around 20 games where Serral is over 6k up on resources lost and loses because he doesn't have the larva to remax.

Balance in lategame PvZ is so broken its not even funny..

@svengalt9546

8 ай бұрын

I've learned one imperative thing about balance in this game: it's always a pendulum.

I think you are wrong Harstem. the less happens on the map the worse it is for the protoss because zerg will slowly mine out the bigger side of the map. And tempest will only get abducted or targeted with a paracitic bomb or fungal if it ever comes to a real engagement. protoss is fucked against zerg imo. seen this already dozen iof times ... always the same ... i mean the only success protoss has is they clear some creep here and there but in real engagements the toss is usually fuckes ... i mean the way classic does only this harass stlye is because protoss in unable to engange the zerg in a real fight army vs army you cant engage in the air because the corrupters dominate there you cant engage on the ground because the broodlings slowly grind your army to death ... and as a support the infestors slow your whole army. or a part of your army when you retreat. so the zerg can kill you piece by piece zerg is just imba ... protoss has not the tools for a direct fight and zerg does not need to engange they wear you out since zerg controls the map all the time ... also the carrier just sucks it drains your money like crazy and one fungal growth on the interceptors and you are pretty much fucked

@svengalt9546

8 ай бұрын

Sounds like you need to watch a certain series of videos that Harstem puts out regularly. This man is truly an educator.

@matuopm

8 ай бұрын

@@svengalt9546 I watched almost everything harstem uploaded. also from uthermal winter and some of the other stuff out there. but he is wrong in the impression that protoss can win these late game fights. the longer the game lasts the worse it is for protoss against zerg

@bigprank3964

8 ай бұрын

​@@matuopmAgree For long time viewers of sc2 pro matches it is obvious that protoss can't win zvp and especially not lategame zvp

Great game, just depressing to see the state of lategame PvZ, they need to do something to make protoss viable in the lategame, otherwise Zerg will keep the 15% or so win discrepancy vs Protoss they had averaged since 2018.

Wow 1 min ago sweet

@sfgdragoon

8 ай бұрын

2nd

quite a dumb game from Classic

Classic tried his best. PvZ late game is just unplayable. Broodlord, corruptor, viper are better than carrier, tempest, high templar at front-on fight. Lurke, ultralisk, banes are better than zealots dark templar at harrasment. Zerg can replenish its all army at 10-20 sec, while protoss takes 1-2 mins. Zerg has the vision of half map, while protoss cannot so it always get attacked off-guard. It just obviously one-sided.

Wow brood infestor snooze fest

Lame game, Jesús!

Jesus that was the *WORST* cometary ever from you... I had to mute you around the 20 minute mark just to keep my sanity and enjoy the game...

Protoss clearly has the worst end game right now.

@tylr3669

8 ай бұрын

Honestly as a toss player. I only hate watch ZvP. Toss doesn't win unless Z goes full retard. Just by the numbers. Like dark losing 10 drones to two adepts and 2 oracle while he has 8 queens 2 of 3 spores and 30 lings on the map. TvP is atleast fun until emp is out. Even if I did wish it weren't so blink dependent. TvZ actually stays pretty interesting with the only exception of roach ravager.

@indybruining

8 ай бұрын

It does if you just keep throwing units away out of prisms. Harstem was pretty clear on his mistakes.

@alphardxyz

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, but this was just awful play by classic. You can't throw away 200 zealots and expect to win in a split map scenario.

@tylr3669

8 ай бұрын

@@indybruining which might matter if toss had any chance of winning the actual main fight. But they don't. So classic has 1 option. Try to break serrals mining so he isn't a full remax behind.

boring as hell even if the level is mad

Christ that was one of the most boring games of SC2 I've ever watched. No offense to you Harstem your casting ability is awesome. But this was like watching paint dry.

SC2 so boring to watch

your 1080 is terrible, kindly go 1440p

I am so sad watching Protosses lose all the time. I understand you try to be objective all the time but how is it not clear that the protoss late game army (in this game for example) could not beat the zerg late game army at all. Have this game replayed by as many other tosses as you can find and I doubt you'll have an even split on wins and losses.

@SD-jf7nb

8 ай бұрын

Too many Carriers can become dead supply lategame, I think classic threw about 18:00 when he could have put some real pressure on, and had bank to replace his army. He instead opts for Zealot runby's, throws Zealots and Prisms he chronos out away, forgets to pick up his Templars, etc. Serral snowballs, while steadily harrassing, Zerg is generally shit at defense, you can't turtle against a lategame Zerg who knows what he's doing. Classic was trying to wreck Serral's tech, but took too long, Tempest are good at in numbers around 9 or 7, to one shot Vipers, Broods, etc. Colossus actually counter broodlings to some extent, Classic tanked well with his Immortals, but I think the Protoss would have more luck staying on more of a ground comp, around HT uptor, adding Tempest, and maybe Phoenix to counter the broods, slow and expensive units, like Carriers. I think the Void might use a buff, it seems to be the missing ingredient, but I have no ideas what that might be. It's always been a staple of the Golden Armada, but oppressive en masse. I don't think its silly to cannon push with air, and the Mamaship can get a lot of value just sitting on a critical expo with lots of cannon for company. But letting Serral have whatever he wants is not the strat.

You were constantly negative during the entire video. It was fairly annoying.