Poor Demandred. #2 again. That guy can't get a break.

@Nebulous_Neuhaus

5 жыл бұрын

And he loses to the guy who was the REAL Shadow counterpart to Lews Therin 😂 cucked again

@CNNBlackmailSupport

5 жыл бұрын

When you are up against the guy who was so nice the dark lord brought him back twice, it's to be expected. I still remember the "oh shit" moment of Demandred introducing Taim. Until that point, the general consensus was that Taim WAS Demandred. The cut out chapter where Demandred finds Sarkonen (the scepter) was fucking amazing, and I wish it was included in the final draft. (Its called River of Souls and is available online if you havent read it. It is...well... I have to repeat myself... fucking amazing.)

@molliethomas2585

5 жыл бұрын

@@CNNBlackmailSupport I have read it, and you're right. Now I want more of Demandred's story. I wish we could have gotten his adventures in Shara and just have that godawful Mat & Tuon "romance" cut out entirely. That part of the series still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

@reksteren10

5 жыл бұрын

This list is rigged !

@CNNBlackmailSupport

5 жыл бұрын

@@reksteren10 I totally agree! How can you disagree with a jaw that clenched? Ranked #1 in Sharan KZread for sure!

Nae'Blis gets the top spot in a list created by Nae'Blis? The bias is blasphemous!!! 🙈🙈

I feel Lanfear should go to #3 because she was one of the few Forsaken who really lived up to the name "Chosen" in terms of her presence. The schemes part made me chuckle a bit, and you're right, she really did more for the light than she did for the shadow, but I think it should also be considered that Lanfear mostly just did things that benefited herself. When we think of her goals as follows: being able to "challenge the creator" as she thought she could if she found both the CK, one for her and one for Rand, she kinda sorta managed to do that; making Rand strong enough to take out the other forsaken so in the end it's only her and him, and she managed to do even that; then I'm guessing her hidden goal was to in the end make Rand fall in love with her and "control" him? She did fail at that. I would give her 3/5 for schemes just looking at what her goals and motivations were. Other than that I loved the video; thanks for making such great content for people like us whose friends wont read WoT :)

@kaladongstormguy

Жыл бұрын

Plus if you count her final scheme as tricking everyone (both on the side of the shadow and the light) into thinking she's dead, she was very successful. She was able to trick Perrin into thinking that he killed her, so now she can live in the peaceful world that the heroes created without being hunted down as one of the Forsaken.

this is the best book series ive ever read in my life...it took me 22 years to complete it because i started reading it way back when it first came out{technically the 2nd book was out when i started}..so i had to wait 2+ years for each book sometimes..i wish mr.jordan was still with us,when he passed it was a sad day indeed..i'm happy that they're making it into a show like GoT now

@cmf2966

4 жыл бұрын

DAWGZofWAR 100% agree. Silver lining...Brandon Sanderson!

@Gigipretty64

2 жыл бұрын

At least it’s written and complete. GOTs got bastardised from s6 onwards. Let’s hope WoT exceeds GOTs.

@Alejojojo6

2 жыл бұрын

The show is rubbish. Your hopes werent heard sadly...

@Gigipretty64

2 жыл бұрын

@@Alejojojo6 fair but it may improve.

You should also have mentioned access to the true power as well for Ishmael

@Phoenix-King-ozai

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, dude's got unlimited access as moridin Rand thought it rivaled the amount of one power via both the choeden kal So much for lanfear's plan to take out the creator If the dark one himself can grant as much access without amp, she has no hope of ever challenging even the darkone, let alone the creator And Rand amped it by a thousand fold via callandor Enough to crush the dark one like a bug

Lanfear should get 23 points. Her schemes was better than the others. She's the only one who lives after Lights victory.

Regarding Aginor. I think he was treated very unfairly here. Aginor did more for the victory of the shadow than most of the other Forsaken having created the shadowspawn in the first place. Imagine the last battle if the shadow was reliant on Darkfriends exclusively to win. Also, quoting another Forsaken is about as unreliable as it comes. They despise each other and they despise the slimy little guy called Aginor especially.

@nweek19

2 жыл бұрын

Aginors equipment was destroyed, meaning that while he was very useful, his usefulness dropped significantly in the third age.

@MrNintoku

2 жыл бұрын

Moghedian I think was made out to be stronger than she actually was in this list. Dreams are great and all but it doesn't mean anything if you still get captured.

@satyam4336

Жыл бұрын

As a forsaken, living by the name of satyam, I approve, probably rahvin won't agree.

I feel like most people in and out of the books understates the importance of Aginor. But think about how easy things would have been for the forces of the light with no trollocs, eyeless, etc. Though he doesn't do a lot in the novels, Aginor probably did more to help the dark one than anyone else because of his creation of the shadowspawn.

@vaylecallaghan5200

6 ай бұрын

I was just about to comment on nearly the same thing. Yeah, in the book series, Aginor is nearly useless and is more of a footnote, but his Talent score should have been much higher. I probably would have given his Talent score a 3, if not a 4. While he might not showcase a lot of Talent, the Talent he does show is unique in both the Third Age and those that followed. Not to mention, that Talent is the cornerstone of the forces of the Shadow. He may not have properly utilized all of his Talents, but he still has it.

@rafaelgrigoryan3785

2 ай бұрын

Without the shadow spawn the light wouldn't have a common enemy to gather behind, I think through deception and treatury the dark one could have splintered the kingdoms of mankind more than he hurt them using the shadow spawn, just the of the shidow

How about the fact that Aginor's creations are in every book of the series, are used countless times by the other forsaken, and are a main element to the entire series. Not giving Aginor more credit is rediculous as the trolloc wars would have been impossible. Aginor has an entire event of history dedicated to his creation. The gholam?! Like you can give him more credit for just the gholam alone? Trollocs, darkhounds, drahkar, myrdraal are all there at the last battle, I would say Aginor was very well represented. Plus the fact that Aginor was able to find the eye of the world by tracking the evil from mat's dagger speaks of a skill used very seldom in the story but has a very powerful element.

@jeremiahnoe5361

5 жыл бұрын

Fr dude, every person with a higher score in skills than Aginor made me cringe, especially the 5/5's. So...Sammael gets a 2/5 in objects of power just because he found ONE gholam that Aginor made, but Aginor gets no credit for making ALL OF THEM in the first place?! Okay, dude. Okay.

@sofielundsskolan

5 жыл бұрын

Don't forget the Jumara, dude. He didn't even make them for a specific purpose, he pretty much did it for shits and giggles

@crazyscotsman9327

5 жыл бұрын

And? If it wasn't for his deeds in creating the Shadowspawn he wouldn't have been a Forsaken himself. All of the other Forsaken see him as a joke and he gets killed two times. The first time by doing something he should have none better then to do, (Drawing too much of the one power). The second time he gets killed by a Black Sister. Not another Forsaken, or like one of the main heroes he gets killed by a Black Sister. Aginor is an academic and useless anywhere besides a lab.

@Jerome616

5 жыл бұрын

inventing paper does not make you a better writer than Shakespear... it just makes you useful. You could argue his Meta contribution was greater than any other Foresaken, but in terms of power... no hes not more powerful than most of his kin.

@da5thdimensioncreatvcomix48

5 жыл бұрын

@@crazyscotsman9327 dude, that's like saying "All Mother Nature did was create life. She ain't nothing special ." I beg to differ my friend. Let me put it this way; There is no Tarmon Gaidon without Aginor. PERIOD. Can you say that about any of the others under number 2?

To be honest. They were all so damn incompetent that there is hardly a difference.

Really enjoying your videos. Your commentary is great and excited to see how your talent grows as you continue.

Loving your channel, keep up the good work

I love your commentary. I subbed season 1 (i watched it late) and have NEVER been disappointed. Especially since ive seen you mature just as our heros do.

I'm almost done with Wheel of Time for the first time. I'm on book 13. I discovered your channel at the perfect spot in my reading! Thanks for creating!

@iancharles5621

13 күн бұрын

Benjamin

Aw, poor Moggy. I love her but have to agree she failed at pretty much everything (except for surviving I suppose)

@TheBeccabus

4 жыл бұрын

It's hard not to laugh at her ineptitude, particularly by the last book!

@umrete

4 жыл бұрын

ouch... :D

Semirhage blowed up Rand's arm. It was a huge damage to the side of light.

good list sir. Keep up the good work I enjoy the content

Love the video just edit your graphics before posting man! Fantastic breakdown though. I would just specify where you are pulling the forsaken’s skills and talents from, on a couple you seem to rate their prebreaking skills into account but discount others or give them lesser scores because it was prebreaking. That being said, great video. You’re one of my favorite new KZreadrs

Not a fan of powerscaling as a rule but that was actually quite interesting and insightful. Gonna go check out your list for the light now.

Omg, I'm rereading the series now... and LOVE that song!

Mesaana was one of the weaker female channelers, though. Aginor needs A LOT more for schemes, as his creations are used by the others in every book

@Kylora2112

2 жыл бұрын

Aginor lost all of his equipment, and since the shadowspawn can create more shadowspawn, Aginor is basically an arms dealer with no money. He was useful 3000 years ago, but now, he's a chump. Both of his deaths are the most laughable for a Forsaken; he draws too much power kills himself (a channeler should know better), and then gets killed by a random Black Ajah sister. He was a coward and even though Shai'tan could have given him a third chance, he elected not to. Basically, Aginor could have been replaced by a head of lettuce on a stick for the entirety of the Third Age and would have been just as effective.

@emilienouellet7869

Ай бұрын

They are only three female channelers that are better than her. Lanfear, Semirhage and Alivia. So i don't think you could say that she is one of the weakest females channelers.

I love the pix's at the beginning. Look how big Lan is next to Moraine while on their horses. I love the pix of Perrin, Rand, and Mat. The music is awesome.

I haven’t seen one, but I would love to. Please do a video about Demondred!

Started reading this series when I was a kid and finished as an adult. It may be time to re-read it. Thanks for guide on the strongest characters.

I totally agree with this!!!!! Nice work here.

Nice video. I will place Lanfear 2nd but still u explain cool

Great vid

Great video, a few incorrect graphics but can't fault the content!

The only thing you got wrong was the dragon being equal to Ishamael. The dragon was slightly better, and that's why he was the dragon.

KZread gold right here. Huge fan of the series...

I agree with most of what you say, yet I think Lanfear and Graendal should swap positions there. I mean it could seem Lanfear failed, but she was the one who opened the bore in the first place and her ultimate plan was to be there at the very last moment to save the dark lord. In the other side Graendal causes the fall of three other forsaken ruining several plots at the same time.

Nice video, have subbed.

Great list 👍🏽

Good stuff, I would love to see a video about channelers ranked over all, light and shadow.

@matthewsmith4647

5 жыл бұрын

1.Rand/Lews 2. Moridin Lol

@TheRacoonGhost

5 жыл бұрын

@@matthewsmith4647 and the rest of the forsaken in the order as above. (maybee squese in Alivia and Nyaneve)

@matthewsmith4647

5 жыл бұрын

@@TheRacoonGhost with Whatshisname (Guy who took over as leader of the Black Tower after kicking M'Hael out) as the highest male channeler from the 4th era.

@TheRacoonGhost

5 жыл бұрын

@@matthewsmith4647 true squeze him in somewhere aswell (tho i actually doubt there will be much more room for others than rand and the forsaken in a top 10 list)

I can't watch do to spoilers as I am only on book 9 but I just wanted to thank you for always including spoiler warnings in your videos. This video gets a like just for that!

Couldn't you argue that creating the shadowspawn was a part of aginor's plans and schemes, making him by far the most significant forsaken in the last battle

@vv8870

2 жыл бұрын

I would say he created them but didn't command them. The other Chosen commanded more of the shadow's armies than he did.

@matthewhelland9258

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think Shai'tan knows much about gratitude for past services, he only cares about what you can do for him in the future. Aginor is much less useful without his lab equipment.

I liked your video conceptually, but you need to carefully edit your video before posting it. I saw several mistakes.

@danicahubacheck1944

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed

Hold up... I thought YOU were Nae'blis?! Damn. Btw can you tell I am binge watching your videos right now?

You never mentioned how Taim had the seals to the Dark One’s prison. That should have added to his score in objects of power.

14 Asmodean! 13 Asmodean? 12 No, really, Asmodean. 11? 11? No. Asmodean was in the prophesies of the Dragon as the Forsaken who'd be forced to serve Rand and I'm pretty sure Lanfear knew it. As for the Shaido and breaking the Aiel with the Leaf, since the latter was part of the prophecies, the former had to be too. Plans and schemes: 0. The guy was more of a victim of the Wheel than any of the heroes. Also, you failed to mention the shield Lanfear left on him. Strength 1... Average of 4 then? Regardless, he's the bottom's bottom.

Arginor had the ability to “create life” however evil that ability alone should result in a 5/5 skills. Moridin ultimately failed in the end with his all his plots and schemes. Thus a 4/5 should be given. Otherwisea very nice review

@AinzOoalG0wn

5 жыл бұрын

as a researcher, i agree that aginor is skilled. but upon his re-entry into the world, he didn't quite make any new creations since then hasn't he. even if the excuse was he didn't have his golden age tools at his disposal or not enough time to work with, the fact remains, with the time that he had, he did not take any steps that we could see to make use of his strong points, nor did he achieve anything of consequence (like a creation of a new creature to change the tide). Aginor is responsible for the creations of the armies of the shadow by creating the trollocs, drakhar and myrdral. His most powerful creation was the Gholam, which was a serious and deadly threat (even to and especially toward Aes Sedai). So Aginor's contribution from past achievements cannot be downplayed. But that is just hanging onto past achievements. His achievements in the present until his death is what was poor and in stagnation. oo right, he also created a worm like monster that was immortal and very dangerous even to chanelers. Demandred was even quoted that, had he not known about the creatures weaknesses and how to deal with it, he would have been easily killed. but even then, it was a very tough fight.

@ironstar183

5 жыл бұрын

I can create life with deez nuts 5/5 amirite

@FallicIdol

2 жыл бұрын

I view him as a great mad scientist to have in your back lines, but not one to stick in the front lines

Great video. I thought it was more that the balance of power between male and female channelers is that men have more raw strength, but they cannot link (without women) while women can create large circles, and not a matter of strength vs dexterity. Most of the men in the series are Forced, which explains their relative lack of skill proportionate to their strength compared with their much older Aes Sedai peers. What do you think?

Awesome list, can i use some of the information of your video to make my own version in spanish?

Hey Chosen one! Any chance of a vid on the 2 cut chapters from AMoL? The one about Demandred finding Sakarnen and the other about Perrin in the Ways. They are found in the collection of short stories called Unfettered.

That transition jingle between forsaken, though

I Will never forgive Graendal for what she did to my Aiel bro.

@srimposible1853

5 жыл бұрын

Or Ituralde

I think creation of shadow spawn should be recognized more. Since it's most of their army like the majority of their forces for them to do majority of everything they have done

(heavy spoilers ahead) I just finished the last book. I think that Demamdred deserves the 1st spot. He was by far the most intimidating forsaken. His armies almost won the battle for the Shadow, he killed and defeated a bunch of main characters and he also was the one who recruited M Hael who not only proved to be a valuable asset for the Shadow but he also used him to cause the death of the Amyrlin Seat.

@925263

4 жыл бұрын

Nah, pure power-wise, he's probably even below Lanfear. He never accomplishes anything without his OP terangreal.

@ch3rl0b11n

4 жыл бұрын

He is most intimidating because not Ishamael nor Lanfear showed themselves for battle or anything else during the last book. If Ishamael was there instead of Demandred, you would see who was the most intimidating and feared. And probably shadow would won at least that battle of Merrilor.

@strengthodyssey7235

4 жыл бұрын

@@ch3rl0b11n Fair point. Still as a subjective feeling while reading the book, I was "on the edge on my seat" when reading chapters where main characters confronted Demandred. I don't remember having that feeling (at least not that intensely) when I was reading about any other battle of the Light against a forsaken. That being said the fact that Demanded's presence in the series was mainly instilled into the last book helped to enhance his aura of intimidation into me. In the last book of any series every main character is in danger of dying. Something which is usually unlikely to occur in the earlier parts of a books series.

@nickdentoom1173

8 ай бұрын

@@925263 Power-wise, the Male Forsaken are all more powerful than the female ones (Even the weakest male forsakes, Be'lal was stronger than the strongest female). Demandred is no way more powerful than Ishamael though, however, the reason why Demandred commanded the forces of the Shadow during the last battle, was not because of his power as a channeler, but because he was the best swordfighter and the best battle commander of the Forsaken. Ishamael and Rahvin are the 2 most powerfull Male Forsaken, being at a ++1 strenghtlevel (Which is the highest one)... Demandred is tied with Sammael and Aginor with a ++2, then we have Balthamel and Asmodean at ++3 and last Be'lal at ++4

You forgot that Taim was given possession of a Dream Spike as well. Greandal had a second angreal, a weak one that was traded to her by Messana for information. We don't know if she used it, but it was one of the objects she was grabbing when trying to flee after failing to kill Perrin.

Lanfear was the main lever that ‘let the lord of chaos rule’. She was very succesful from the point of view of the dark one.

...at least I get a better idea of pronouncing their names... 🤗 ... one of the interesting things IMHO is the Forsakens serious weakness - it’s their internal squabbling and trying to outdo each other ultimately defeats themselves... Actually an interesting summary. Thanks... All the VERY BEST!

Given that Lanfear is the only forsaken that lives freely in the end, she could be on par with Ishy, in terms of her final success.

I know its a old vid but worth noting for Lanfear its very likely she has a full Paralis-net like Cadsudane. As her descriptions seemed to mention certain items when she was around and also she had similar abilities to Cadsudane too

I like the video, don't really have any complaints about the content. I do feel like you need someone else around you to watch them before you post the video to make sure that any typos or basic elements are correct.

@MrBdl32

5 жыл бұрын

Yup, I agree, keep the good work and improve where you can

When Rahvin is "almost" as strong as a man can be, I should think his raw strength would be 9, not 10.

@frrixz

2 жыл бұрын

Except I think the Companion puts him as equal to Rand and Moridin. As an aside, I’d have put M’Hael at 9/10 in the power instead of 8/10.

I hope they do a teaser promo of the next season with them showing off the 13 Forsaken one by one over epic/creepy music similar to the 2022 Batman trailer score or 2018 Suspiria trailer score.

Ishamael let the taverin boys run amuck when he could have crushed them in the beginning . So I would take 2 points off for that . But I love his: "I win again Lews Theron."

Hey man, I really like your content.. Just a suggestion... Could you possibly get a microphone closer to your face, or a Mic clipped to your shirt? It would help your audio. I loveyour intro music.. Very cool.

I wonder how your ranking of Lanfear has changed after Sanderson's reveal.

It's always interesting to see how other people pronounce these names. For example Demandred, always read it as DEE-MAN-DREAD.

@Deuwl

5 жыл бұрын

Ikr. I say it that way too. I think our narrator is wrong int that haha. Also, I noticed other names like for Rahvin, I say RAAHH-VIN

Great breakdown of the characters. But you have made some labeling errors in your video. For instance your labels said Semirhage for both #7 and #6 on your list.

Here is my list Moghedien: 12/25 Balthamel: 12/25 Aginor: 15/25 Gets a 5/5 for talents for his ability at genetic manipulation in creating the shadowspawn. Lanfear: 16/25 Objects of power got reduced to 1/5 for only having one angreal. Asmodean: 16/25 Held and used the Access Key in battle against Rand, so objects of power get a boost to 2/5 and talents got upped to 3/5 for using music to influence the people around Rand. M'hael: 16/25 Also had a dreamspike in use at the Black Tower so objects of power gets raised to 2/5. Semirhage: 17/25 Sammael: 18/25 Found a large stock pile of objects of the power, including the ring that grendal later uses so objects of power is raised to 5/5 Rahvin: 18/25 Be'lal: 19/25 Held the Stone of Tear which was an object of the power its self but also has the Great Holding which holds a vast assortment of objects of the power, so objects of power 5/5 Grendal: 19/25 Only had an angreal that she scavenged from Sammael after his death so objects of power gets knocked back to 1/5 Mesaana: 20/25 Had access to all the objects of power held by the White Tower so objects of power gets raised to 5/5 Demandred: 20/25 Only had access to 1 sa'angreal so objects of power gets lowered to 2/5 Ishameal: 24/25 He had 3000 years to plan and scheme and still got beat and had his body stolen!!!! Schemes and plots lowered to 4/5

I think you're a bit unfair to M'Hael on objects of power - the dreamspike is a pretty useful tool. I'm also a bit surprised to see Semirhage's plans not include the bit where she got Rand to almost go crazy.

Dude ...that booger is wicked

When I read the names of people and places I use a different pronunciation on several....Semirhage, Cairhein, Ishamael etc.

@chinosjay

4 жыл бұрын

I read moghedien as mhaw-ge-DI-yen, asmodean as as-MO-dean, semirhage as se-mi-RAHJ (sounds like mirage), carhien as ker-RI-yen, demandred as de-MAND-red ( stressed on the second syllable)

Aginor a 1 for skills when he created trollocs and fades?! That’s basically the entire army of the shadow, throw him a 2 lol

Great video Lanfear should be higher up at least third.

Semirhage was said to be on equal footing with Lanfear and Alivia.

2 things mate... 1. I believe you underrated Semirhage... She deserved a lot more attention than she did and she also could have gotten a +1 Score for all of her rankings 2. Ishamael should be 24/25, because even though he basically controlled everything in the world, he did indeed go crazy before LTT was reborn, and therefore his schemes/plots or his talents/skills should have been 4/5 not 5/5. In correlation to that, I do not believe that any of the Forsaken deserved the perfect score, as you pointed out quite rightly, they lost every single battle they part-took in. Just my opinion plz don't kill me

Over all perfect evaluation. I do think Graendal is underestimated she is there to the very end, and throws the entire game in the shadows favor just like Moridin.

Sure, I'm an oldtimer when it comes to WoT lore and I know a lot has been retconned over the last 10-15 years, but I stand firm in what we then knew to be true. Aginor was the second strongest male forsaken in raw power, perhaps third after Ishamael and Lanfear (the Big White Book makes this clear) and his creation of every single dark-side Grunt in the series rank him WAY above #13 in itself. Other Forsaken thinking less of him is just not to be taken seriously, as this is simply the way the Chosen behave. Be'lal was NOT the weakest in the One Power. He was middle-strength, alongside players like Balthamel, Graendal and Rahvin (yes, Rahvin was nowhere near top-tier). Honestly, had he not been balefired early on, Be'lal would have dominated the Shadow with his capabilities. On the other hand, Asmodean WAS the weakest of the bunch, below Moghedien and Mesaana. This is not merely my opinion but dang near consensus on the forums of the early 2000s, with nothing to contradict this. And no, I will not be swayed by the tacked-on "males are always stronger"-BS of the kind that later stained the fandom :) Sammael, was not really middle-strength, but upper-tier in terms of Power. He was shoulder-to-shoulder with Demandred and Semirhage on the shelf just below the top three. Yes, I know I just focus on raw strength here, which is not the best way of judging capability. It just rubs me the wrong way seeing all the truths we knew in the halcyon days being shuffled about... Anyway, carry on :)

@brunovandooren3762

3 жыл бұрын

Taim was demandred. Jordan was an ass for changing it

The actress in the groove coverage poison video, would be a perfect Lanfear.

I think giving the strongest possible female channeler a 10 for strength is not entirely correct. In Fires of Heaven, when Rahvin meets with Sammael, Lanfear and Graendal, he says that either he or Sammael could overpower either woman, unless they linked. Similarly, Asmodean comments to Rand that male channelers are stronger, but this is compensated for by the ability of females to link, not by their ability to weave flows more dexterously. The books also seem to indicate that Rand can weave flows extremely well, creating more than it is possible for other channelers to even see.

@SpaghettiToaster

5 жыл бұрын

Well, one can argue that the ability to link statistically results in a higher expected value of power in a randomly chosen battle, as it's not too unlikely that they will have someone to link with.

@michaelhowze8198

3 жыл бұрын

Rand is Jesus and not demonstrative of what any old chanller can do. The more dextrous thing comes directly from Jordan. You dont have to agree but he made the magic system so..

How would Fain rank if included in this list? (I know he isnt really on the shadows side)

does demandred following Ishmael's let chaos rule plan count for demandred or Ishmael?

Semirhage always reminded me of Asami Yamasaki from Ryu Murakami's Audition and it's 1998 film adaptation.

I love the books

What do you mean moghedien has no objects of power? She has an a’dam (around her neck)

I think you undervalue the Schemes/plots of Lanfear. My interpretation of Rand's battle against the Dark One was that the only way for the shadow to really win was for Rand to voluntarily give up. As long as Rand refused to give up, there was no way for the Dark One to win (this is strengthened by the conflicting orders regarding rand seen during the series, or why the Dark One allowed him to channel the True Power). Lanfear might have been unsuccessful in the end in trying to turn Rand to the shadow, but she was the only one who actually tried to subvert him, trying to make him reach for riches and grandeour etc.

Moridin/Ishmael's plots: - Turn the three taveren -Kill Rand -"Kill Aybara and Cauthon" -"Stop plotting and fight" What a shit show. Achievements: Climactic battle with Rand he claims to be decisive, gets "frozen" and dies (guess dying is actually a plus in his book, unless the dark one can still resurrect him when someone drills a bore again, since he wasn't balefired). If Trollorc wars/Hawking Count, the creation of shadowspawn should count more for Aginor imo, since both is outside the books main scope.

Loved the video but You had a "Few" typos there. For example 18:53 - Demanded scores 2/25 not the 23 he should have gotten

Spoilers Do you want to rethink lanfears score now we know she’s the only forsaken that survived and her final scheme was a resounding success?

You messed up on Aginor, the guy who creates the shadowspawn.. that's HUGE.. there are enough variations and they are so dangerous. Especially if he is the main architect behind the Gholam - this is really teh entire army of the shadow - that's a HUGE skill and for me it's a 5/5 - no one else seems to be able to pull it off also, that is rare - if it wasn't for Aginor's shadwospawn, what army w ould the shadow have? Please, he is probably the most valuable forsaken after Ishamael imo. Tbh, one thing the shows could do if they ever did wheel of time justice would have been to expand a bit more on Aginor, for his achievements we don't really see him do much in the books.. this opens the door for him to be used in scenes that devel more into shadowpsawn, their creation and greater depth, eh can actually be shown properly as a threatning genius madman scientist type, although in Eye of the World he seemed very threatening, oh and he doesn't foible drawing the power of the eye of the world, Rand is the reason why he oever does it, Lews Therin beats him there. Lanfear should get higher on plots and schemes, her plots were pivotal in helping Rand, which was her intention albeit she wanted to turn him to HER side - Lanfear's ultimate goal was herself, not the shadow, and she does last till the very end, the fact that she nearly succeeds in getting both Rand, Morridin and the Dark one in that crucial moment, pts her plots and schemes at 4/5 for me , not 1/5 - none of the forsaken succeed, lanfear also actually manipulates successcully Rahvin, Graendal, Sammael when she plots with them.. i think 1/5 is far too low. She also manages to wrap Asmodean round her little finger even though he had his own goals for coming along with her. Semirahge is a 8/10 in strength, Lanfear is a 9/10 - men are more powerful than women, both Aginor and Balthamel would have been a match for her raw power for raw, she has an angreal which is why I suspect Asmodean is more pliable. Correction: Demandred's Sa'angreal is not stronger than callimdor, Calimdor is more powerful, it is also a sa'angreal fo the true power which doubles it. it also has no limit for the one power which is one of the flaws it has, but makes it incredibly powerful, second only to the acccess key globes, which face, it nothing else comes close to those Sa'angreal, they dwarf any others. All in all a very good list. I would have Aginor up to 15 points then because of talent and skill and this puts him ahead of Taim and behind Sammael. Do note that Taim is an opportunist, his accomplishemnts would have been done by any forsaken in his position,. Demandred turns him to the shadow too, given his access, tbh I think any of them could have done what he did, even Asmodean. Lanfear would drop to 9/10 for strength, she is powerful but not a 10/10 - that is Rand and Ishamael, and I feel Logain. Rahvin, Demandred, Narshima, Mazrim are all ahead of her. If you added one power dexterity, Lanfear will get top marks, but raw power, the highest woman will probably get a 7 or 8 and that would be alivia/nynaeve and that grandmotherly novice Sharina Melloy if they reach their full potential, when you add dexterity to it, the women come up a bit more, but still aren't a match for the men, which is why they are much better at linking - remember this is the balance, they work together better than the men. They are more powerful than her without her angreals - and she had more than one angreal. I would then add points to her feats of strength, giving her a 4/5. This puts her ahead of Graendal at 22/25 and into 3rd place behind Demandred but ahead of Graendal. p.s. Asmodean was not weak in the power, he is nearly as strong as Rand, the "weak" Lanfear accuses him of being is not strength in the power but in terms of character - he is just not as strong as the others in plotting scheming, manipulating etc compared to the likes of Rahvin or Sammel, Demandred or Ishamael and is outwitted by Lanfear.. but then she is probably the cleverest of the forsaken, even moreso than Graendal. For all her cunning, Sammael does successfully manipulate Graendal, let's not forget that. Graendal, Ishamael and Semirahge are probably the 3 most academically intelligent forsaken, but Be'lal, Lanfear, Rahvin I would edge ahead of the two women in termos of overall cunning and intelligence.

I thought Taim was described in the books as very nearly as strong as Rand. I thought he would get a 9 for Raw Strength

Moridin would have been a lot more successful at the end had he not have been insane from using the the True power too much. In my opinion he just lost the plot at the end.

@SpaghettiToaster

5 жыл бұрын

How could he have been successful (other than by killing himself if what some say is true and it would've taken Rand out due to the connection between them - which I don't buy because the connection is never discussed enough in the books to be that important)? His job was to break Rand's spirit and he failed at that when Rand became woke mountain jesus. The way I see it, he'd already lost at that point. There was no way he could win a physical altercation with Rand and he was never supposed to kill him anyway. But there was also no way for him to psychically win against woke rand. The only way the shadow could've still won at that point would've been for the Dark One to beat Rand himself or for Rand to die due to some dumb mistake.

@davidsandlin9686

5 жыл бұрын

SpaghettiToaster well if he had been thinking right he could have just sent all the forsaken in a group to kill Rand instead of letting them all run subplots and little schemes. In my opinion he just wasn’t an effective General at the end because he was crazy and just wanted to be done with it all. He welcomed oblivion which means at that point he kind of gave up on the winning aspect. He didn’t care whether the Dark one won as long as his existence was ceased.

@mhail7673

5 жыл бұрын

You forget the breaking of the warder bond. Rand was supposed to be suicidal when actually facing the dark one. Nynaieve stopped that with herbs...

Given recent news might want to move Lanfear up a bit

finally i can watch this spoiler video!!!!

Mesaana had nothing to do with the split in the tower, that was 100% Elaida.

@NaeBlis

2 жыл бұрын

Not true, Elaida was supported by all Black Ajah at Mesaanas direction. This is a major plot point in the later books and even in Shadow Rising you see “Danelle” returning to the Tower. It’s one of Suians notes

@this.is.a.username

2 жыл бұрын

@@NaeBlis Elaida approached Alviarin, not the other way around. Removing Suian caused the split. The argument here is whether or not the blues would have tried to forcibly free Suian, and flee either way, if there were no blacks involved on either side. You can't say Mesaana had all blacks support Elaida since they ended up in the rebel tower as well.

Didn't see your rankings for the light side, but I hope Olivia was number 1 for the females as she was apparently as powerful as it was possible to get, she may even have been as strong as Rand Al Thor, stronger even than lanfear (before her visit to the ailfinn)

"Dexterity" sounds a lot like "Skills and Talents"

I think that's accurate. Lanfear... So much hype in the Great Hunt, and yet she just kinda crashes and burns.

I feel like people focus on “the men tend to be stronger in the power while women are more dexterous weavers “ that was clearly meant to be more about averages then set in stone, Lanfear or nynaeve are probably way stronger than many ashaman, and rand by the end is probably as skilled in weaving as most female characters, but hey shocker to anyone who forgot the entire series rand is super special, not exactly a baseline example

Would you change Lanfear’s rank after Sanderson’s “big reveal” about Lanfear’s fate at the end?

I will come back when I read all the books... See you in three years!

Good list, but only if you count accomplishments from reawakening. If the list would count the accomplishments from the time they turned to the shadow, well. Lets just say that Aginor killed and destroyed more through his shadowspawn creations, than anyone else on that list. His legacy never took a nap with the creator.

I kinda hope Taim is Demandred in the show, and Shara expanded on with it.

Aginor invented the Trollocs, myrddral, dragkhar, Gholam, and dark hounds! Hes top 3 at least!

@flow5718

5 жыл бұрын

Aginor's skills/talents score in this list is only 1/5 which is insane considering this guy single handedly created all of the Shadowspawn. I would increase that score to 5/5 resulting in a final score of 15/25 putting Aginor on par with M'Hael at position 9.

@flow5718

5 жыл бұрын

But OTOH, his skills/talents are practically useless in the Third Age without equipments to create Shadowspawn so its fair enough that his place is at the bottom. I wonder why the Dark One even reincarnated him since he's this useless dude.

@CNNBlackmailSupport

5 жыл бұрын

@@flow5718 I think the dark one reincarnates any chosen that dont die from balefire. The only reason demandred cant be resurrected is that it appears to require someone to facilitate the reincarnation. Maybe shaidar haran handled it for Ishamael, or maybe he didnt actually die until he fought in the stone of tear? Like he was burnt up and such, and it was a fight in the clouds, so maybe it was some kind of pocket dimension like he kept moghedian in, but visible or some such. I think my main issue with this ranking structure was that "before being sealed" wasnt included. Asmodean was a dork who joined because of music. Sure, he created the shaido threat, but that was largely by accident. He didnt do anything for Sevanna, and she was the real evil in the shaido. I just think aginor got a bad rap. In the 6th book, Rand mentions that Aginor as Osangar was almost as powerful as himself when he was in Cairhien. I think it was when Cadsuane was visiting him before he got cut by Fain.

@timothywalsh9637

5 жыл бұрын

It's true that Aginor created the Shadowspawn, which are constantly pervasive throughout the books, but once they were created, they were mostly used and controlled by other members of the Forsaken or the Dark One himself. Therefore, I think it's understandable that Aginor is placed as low as he is.

@CNNBlackmailSupport

5 жыл бұрын

@@timothywalsh9637 Do you know the name of the pilot who dropped the A Bomb? What about the commander who gave the order to the pilot? What about the general who gave the order to the commander? What about the president who gave the order to the general who gave the order to the commander who gave the order to the pilot? Do you know who invented it? Who is more relevant when discussing that weapon? Shadow spawn isnt any different, just like you wouldnt say that Talmanes gets more credit than Mat and Aludra when discussing canons. Mat created the concept, Aludra made that concept a reality, and Talmanes used them. Aginor is like if Mat and Aludra had a child. He, single handedly, I might add, created the army that made "The Last Battle" a battle, rather than "The Last Riot" or "The Last Brawl." Now imagine if the Horn of Valere didnt call hero Wolves back who could take on the wild hunt. The defenders were getting destroyed by the dark hounds and wouldnt have lasted longer than a few more minutes. Even after death, Aginor had the last battle won... until the remaining Forsaken snatched defeat from the Jaws of Aginor's victory.

Seems right

You really need to rethink where you put Mazrim Taim and Mesaana in this list.

What do I read next help