The one thing I would fault you for in this episode is reading the commanders theme at face value and not looking at what people are playing with it

Playing Volrath weird counters proliferate (level counters, energy, enchantmnts, -1-1, experience...)

@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299

11 ай бұрын

I used to have a deck like that, Volrath was fun :P

Playing Neheb with an extra combat theme is crazy, you pull ahead so quickly that you can easily cast Ulamog on turn 5 with the right set up. Big mana, big turns.

@ivernedit4132

11 ай бұрын

Neheb dragons approach seems really sweet

@omegaholiday

11 ай бұрын

How dare u mention treasure decks without my baby from Capenna product-images.tcgplayer.com/fit-in/512x512/268340.jpg

@veganpork7601

11 ай бұрын

@@ivernedit4132 im actually building that right now

@mrmellow9

11 ай бұрын

Neheb is a house that kills everyone out of nowhere. Mono red gets more staples as the days go on, but I hope Minotaurs are a tribe in some upcoming sets so Neheb gets some inadverdant tech. I love that he gives spells like price of progress a very comfy home. As if that wasn't enough, hardcast ulamog exile your thing post combat like you said. Mono red big mana as an archetype? "Burn"?

@ivernedit4132

11 ай бұрын

I plan to or do it with Vadrok once they get reprinted. @@veganpork7601

I understand the confusion in the beginning, the reason why "Artifacts" is the top archetype on EDHREC is because (to my knowledge) decks on EDHREC don't get only one label and their categorization system is purely threshold based. i.e., if you have "X" enchantments in your deck it counts as an enchantment deck, if you have "X" elves in your deck it'll be counted as an elf deck, and decks are able to check multiple of these boxes at a time. Generalized "Artifacts" decks are certainly a thing in the format, and thus have a dedicated listing on EDHREC, but that label is very broad and the check for "is Artifact deck?" is going to catch a lot of more specific decks, like Urtet Myr Tribal or Equipment Voltron or a big mana deck outside of Green with a lot of mana rocks.

@lightshadow3683

9 ай бұрын

The reason is exactly that - EDHREC is rather shit as a basis for statistics in commander. It's a useful tool, but the basis for archetypes and "good" cards for a given commander is just a grab bag of whatever it finds, which is then sorted by a formula. Artifact is a popular form of ramp, therefore almost every deck with a certain ratio of artifacts and/or artifact-based cards is now an artifact deck. Or for example, meteor golem is considered a "good" card on there and a top pick simply because a lot of random people copied a precon and then barely edited it. EDHREC numbers need to be taken with heavy scrutiny because everything is just an organized showcase of almost completely unsorted decks.

Many decks can have more then 1 tag. ARTIFACT, TOKEN, SACRIFICE decks are very common. LIFEGAIN, TOKEN, LANDFALL decks fall into 3 categories as well. I think it's sorted by them priority.

Jeskai non-creature commanders can still be considered Spellslinger commanders. There's nothing holding you to casting artifacts and enchantments. There is just benefit if you have a few artifacts or enchantments in your deck.

@jeremy1392

11 ай бұрын

Jeskai? You mean Izzet plus white?

@xdfarz

11 ай бұрын

I think demo didn't understand that EDHrec makes the difference between decklists

Knowing your deck's archetype means you know how to tune up your deck when a new set comes out. My Kardur flicker deck is always looking for cloners and red / black creatures with ETBs. My Feather Voltron deck wants targeting instants that distribute +1/+1 counters. My Svella charbelcher deck (based on your old vid!) Wants more polymorph sorceries and permanents with high value CMCs.

@michaelk6071

11 ай бұрын

Kardur flicker?

@casketbase7750

11 ай бұрын

​@michaelk6071 Jaxis The Troublemaker Orthion, Hero of Lavabrink Mirage Phalanx Splinter Twin Rionya, Fire Dancer Blade of Selves Delina, Wild Mage Conjurer's Closet Sword of Hearth and Home Golden Argosy Sanctum of Eternity Tawnos's Coffin Erratic Portal Hell's Caretaker Cloudstone Curio Cursed Mirror The above cards retrigger Kardur's ETB over and over. Other useful ETB creatures in the deck are Imperial Recruiter, Swift Warkite, Life Of The Party, Obsidian Charmaw, and Gray Merchant Of Asphodel. Add in regular Rakdos staples and you have a strong Kardur flicker deck.

In the EDHRECast they say that the data on EDHREC is not always correct, several factors can screw the statistics. For archetype, they consider a certain amount of cards in that archtype: "On the themes page, and the typal page, there are dozens of different themes listed. How these are actually defined are not scientific and are simply the developers of EDHREC fiddling with some counts until it appears that the page provides decent results. Each theme also is defined individually and we don’t have one defined formula that covers all themes."

@jzoobs

11 ай бұрын

People seem to just generally misunderstand the limits of using the statistics on EDCrec for any kind of analysis. This channel leans pretty heavily on this at times.

I have 3 tribal decks, 1 Hades themed equipment deck, a mill deck, a party/enter the dungeon deck, mono blue aggro deck, and a reanimator commander deck. I have the most fun building around a theme, even though the deck may not be a really powerful.

Patron of the Kitsune is my favorite Commander Deck. I've let people pilot and one person said "This deck has no business being this fun" and another said "I had no idea this deck would be so much fun". It's not super powerful but when you do the thing it's amazing

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

11 ай бұрын

I built a Patron of Kitsune deck years ago thanks to this channel and it is a lot of fun to pilot.

Burn/Pingers, Midrange, Stax, +1/+1 Counters, Elfball, Proliferate, Lifegain, Alt Win-cons, Dragon Tribal, Giant Tribal, Art meme - I enjoy building many different archetypes.

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

11 ай бұрын

What color is your giant tribal deck? I always wanted to play dragon tribal, but find a hard time focusing on colors.

@MisterWebb

11 ай бұрын

@@GigaLordShinyMudkip1 My Giant tribal deck is Izzet - commanded by Aegar, the Freezing Flame. My Dragon tribal deck is Rakdos - commanded by Rivaz of the Claw.

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

11 ай бұрын

@@MisterWebb Thanks for the reply. Any tips for Izzets Giants? Does the deck have a lot of giants with high cmc and how do you ramp in that deck?

@MisterWebb

11 ай бұрын

@@GigaLordShinyMudkip1 I have two 7 CMC giants, the rest are lower. It’s a spellslinger deck, so fairly low on creatures. Treasonous Ogre is helpful for ramp, but apart from that it’s just the regular rocks.

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

11 ай бұрын

@@MisterWebb Thank you. I appreciate your comments. Izzet has some good giant support and Boros does too. I wish there was a little green to help play those giants since a lot of them are 5+ mana. You went the smarter route to focus on the spellslinger part instead knowing some ramp limitations in those colors.

I had a Heliod deck that I classified as as "Wheels" deck. Sure, the goal was eventually to land a big Prosperity, but I was setting that up with Echo of Eons, Windfall, Wheel and Deal, Timetwister, Time Spiral, Game Plan, Emergency Powers, and Memory Jar.

Tribal decks are currently my go-to’s. I’ve always been scared to play graveyard decks, but I think that’s what I want to do next in a sacrifice theme. Baba Lysaga looks like a really cool commander to try out. But the other themes I roll with are keyword themes. Like Flying or Deathtouch. Artifact decks have always been a love, so I’m trying to stray away from those a little bit and play outside my comfort zone.

@AnExercisInThought

11 ай бұрын

If you want to do a sacrifice that leans tribal go zombies, Wilhelt and Grim Grin are good options. Baba is fun, but is very sequence heavy. It is closer to control levels of ordering and timing than typical aristocrats.

@9nxt

10 ай бұрын

It helps to think of the graveyard as basically another hand for you to cast spells out of for those types if decks

Between tokens and wheel archetypes : "Xyris, the Writhing Storm" would be the perfect transition !

Atraxa Superfriends, Breya Artifacts, Zhulodok Eldrazi, Anikthea Enchantments, Ur-Dragon Dragons, Titania Lands, Obeka Reanimator/Turns, Wilhelt Zombies, Skithryx Infect, Neyith Fightclub, Burakos Party, Mizzix Spellslinger, Lathril Elves, Zurgo Voltron, Prossh PodChain, Roon ETB, Aragorn HuMonarch, Orvar Clones, Giada Angels, Shorikai Vehicles, Anje WorldgorgerMadness, Trostani Tokens, Sidar Knights, Gishath Dinos, Yidris Cascade, Norin Chaos

Shout to PleasentKenobi Jaheira/Street Urchin deck for tokens: turn your tokens into mana dorks, turn your mana dork tokens into ''Timmies'' (pay 1 sacrifice, deal 1 point of damage to any target, can get very silly very quickly. I added Enrage Dino's to the deck for more hijinks :P

I play Jon Irenicus, infect/ defense themed. Basically all the interactions while handing out knives to use on everyone else!

@ackbooh9032

11 ай бұрын

Nice! I play Irenicus 2nd card draw each turn triggered abilities with a lot of perpetual defenders and weird walls. Playing Jon late and using him right away, etc.

@Kennythesamuri

11 ай бұрын

Nice!!!

12:30 the thing is about golgari aristo is that there's always a reanimator theme behind it. yes the decks main win condition is usually draining the opponent through die triggers BUT there's multiple ways to drain through effects like gray merchant and reanimating him over and over. there's also a lot more sackable creatures in golgari/green opposed to white, like eternal witness or wood elves that have 1 time effects and can be sacrificed or skull clamped for more value. the amount of draw and ramp in green is just a nice thing to have as well

I play many things but my all-time favorite decks are Liesa lifegain/pain and OG Sigarda enchantress Voltron

The top 5 themes are definitely Lands, Tokens, Spellslinger, Graveyard, and Artifacts, followed by Aristocrats

I primarily play Tribal because I am the type of player that likes going wide and smacking people. However, my play group is two friends that have played for far longer and in a pod where the meta became so fast one of the two built Urza to slow them all down. So I'm, sadly, moving slightly towards combo decks or just hyper effective tribal decks.

@DoctorCataclysm

11 ай бұрын

I know your pain. I had an Avatar tribal deck that was just big dumb fun with Golos at the head to help with getting them out. He was banned and the deck lost its engine. Sucks that some tribes get all the toys.

@Duransurik

11 ай бұрын

I built a mono red damage deck to slap around decks that hard counter my more fair decks. Unfortunately people build decks without honor. More power is more power.

i love variety and always changing things up so i have a good 20 or so decks made with various themes/archetype. some are straight forward, most are nuanced and fall more under undefined archetypes. their power levers vary greatly and i have some decks that i built purely for fun and its win rate is less than 20% but everyone has had fun playing against it and i enjoy it i have the following archtypes/themes/strategies: The Most Dangerous Gamer - Attractions + Voltron Rin and Seri, Inseparable - Creature Tokens for Value + Go wide possibilities Urza, Lord High Artificier - Janky + Zero Lands (including zero modal lands) The Grand Calcutron - Rule Zero + Self-Discard/Cycling/Foretell + Creatures with dies triggers + Board Wipes Kenrith, the Returned King - Janky + Reverse Life Gain for Opponents + Ways to give life Kibo, Uktabi Prince - Light Group Hug + Monkey/Ape tribal + Destroy Artifacts Thantis, the Warweaver - Group Hug + Group Slug + Forced Combats + Zero Removal (with some anti-removal) Auntie Blyte, Bad Influence - Self-Damage + Voltron + Steal and Sacrifice Creatures Blim, Comedic Genius - Glass Cannon + Donate Bad Stuff Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker + Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar - Partner + Voltron + Noncreature Spells Abaddon the Despoiler - Pure Janky + Cascade for tutor to get Thrumming Stone + 47 Dragon's Approach Yurlok of Scorch Thrash - Mana Burn + Punish using/playing lands Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - Land Sacrifice + Landfall + Land Destruction Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer - Secret Commander (Norin the Wary) + ETB / LTB Triggers Bruvac the Grandiloquent - Mill + Persistent Petitioners Tribal Siyitri, Dragon Master - Pillow Fort + Forced Combats + Punish being attacked/targeted + Control/Redirection Jon Irenicus, Shattered One - Donate Bad Stuff + Unblockable + Poison Baba Lysaga, Night Witch - Aristocrat + Graveyard Recursion Kosei, Penitent Warlord - Glass Cannon + Voltron Sméagol, Helpful Guide - Mill + Landfall + Sacrifice Evra, Halcyon Witness - Life Swap + Voltron + Life Gain Champions of Archery - Rule Zero + Legendary Tribal + Cards that get exponentially better for each commander in the building stages but nearing completion: Dakkon Blackblade - Landfall + Voltron + Tap Opponents Creatures Sol'kanar the Swamp King - Mostly Black Tribal + Life Gain + Painters Servant + Drain Effects Ghen, Arcanum Weaver - Enchantment Recycling + Enchantments that want to ETB, LTB, Sagas, etc Merieke Ri Berit - Steal Everything + Untap Effects Yedora, Grave Gardner - Morph + Landfall Saruman, the White Hand - Changeling Tribal Angus Mackenzie - Value Engine using Attack and When Blocked Triggers + Untap Effects (inspired by you) Riku of Two Reflections - Janky + Dice Rolling Child of Alara - Pure Janky + 99 Lands i find it helps to step away during the deck building process when i find myself overthinking or feeling stuck and come back with a fresh mind which is why i have a big handful being made at once

Like ur vids

I think you have very narrow ideas of some of the archetypes. Wheels are trading out everyones hand, but I would say that you win in those decks by just making your opponents draw cards, so prosperity helps the wheels theme, despite not being a real wheel. Aristocrats I would say is winning by sacrificing your creatures for benefit, rather than just blood artist triggers. I do agree that spell slingers is just instant and sorcery though.

I built a Halana and Alana deck around the "Beginning of Combat" theme. All the creatures that give extra combat and effects from both creatures and enchantments that double their power each combat. I've done 52 damage just with three creatures before. GRUUL Baby

I know you don't have time to list every commander for each archetype, but I just wanted to add Jolene, the Plunder Queen for the treasure archetype discussion. Every ability she has is directly related to the creation and use of treasure tokens.

Ive never seen campfire before, does that mean that if you have your commander on the field that you have to bounce it back to your command zone?

@edhdeckbuilding

11 ай бұрын

no if it's on the field it stays there

-I have a few tribal decks: Simic Ooze (abusing Biowaste Blob), Simic Golems (artifacts and +1/+1 counters), and Grixis Vampires (with sacrifice/ sorcery subtheme). -Have an Izzet flying deck where I cast a lot of flyers that make treasures, so I can earthquake the board and swing for game. -Have a Firja, Judge of Valor life gain/reanimator deck (turns out it's easy to double-spell, at least on your turn, by chump-blocking, then on your turn, cast a cheap spell to put that creature from grave to hand, then recast the creature.) -Have a 5-color, surprisingly Commander-legal deck, where I sort of have 4 commanders. I get both side of Esika/Prismatic bridge out, plus Keruga, and maybe also Panglacial Wurm. (Deck is built around legendaries that have "partner with" to alow me to cast Panglacial Wurm. The offical wording according to WOTC for "Partner with" has the words search your library)

@trents.3149

11 ай бұрын

Also considering building a Simic mutate deck (because I already have several of the mutate pieces by accident) and a memey Jeskai Shark tribal deck with Ballin and Shabraz. I'd call it "American Sharks" and include lots of flags/banners patriotic stuff just to be silly.

Great Magic video, great topic. These rankings are weird but that's edhrec for ya haha

I’ve found a love for CMC-based deck strategies. Kalemne 5cmc tribal, Jegantha 9cmc tribal with all the bringers and Grozoth, celestial Kirin 4cmc tribal where all the spirits/arcane spells are non-4cmc and all my permanents I want to keep are 4cmc. It’s a fun deckbuilding challenge which encourages you to think differently!

@Shimatzu95

11 ай бұрын

Verry interesting idea, how does your playgroop react to it?

@Dragon_Fyre

11 ай бұрын

Do you allow ramp below those CMC because otherwise that sounds like a crippling limitation ?

Zurgo helmshasher is best in board wipe tribal

Demo did you know you can check the average lists inside the archetype? Just a point when you are wondering long time in the video about what constitutes as archetype and the commanders that are in archetype

Love the metal band logos in the back, what are your thoughts on Lorna Shore. They are one of my favorite metal bands currently

I play against tribal decks more than anything else, no question. Token themes are pretty popular (I'm including treasures here) and land archetypes (landfall, land sacrifice, general Simicness). I have 3 spellslinger decks (Lord of the Nazgul, Anhelo, and Zevlor) 1 enchantress deck (Tatsunari with a mutate subtheme), and 1 Kamiz connive deck that I'd classify it as a saboteur creature archetype, but it could also be considered looting/card draw (whatever you would call that archetype).

My group always wants to see my Oloro deck. Seen him build many different ways but after the years he's so much fun. I just focused hard-core on the text "whenever you gain life". Lots of creatures with that text and lifelink too. It's not about how much life you can gain. It's about how many life triggers can you get! You get draw, +1+1 counters, and EACH opponent lose life with life triggers. The most fun I can find with him for me. Tried pillow fort at first which is super boring and you don't get to interact with opponents. I think he's weaker than what he could be but I interact with my opponents the most with this. It helps force you to attack players with lifelink to get more life triggers. Plus with those 3 different life gain triggers I mentioned you have many different ways to play your turn. Oloro will always be my favorite and only life gain deck! Not interested in any other life gain decks.

Just looking at my decks, I apparently am playing lots of obscure themes. I am surprised that Tribal as a theme isn't in the top 10, however. I have plenty of tribal decks: G Shamans, GW Cats, WUBRG Dragons, BRG Lhurgoyfs/Nightmares, BRG Kobolds, GW Archers, RW Assembly-Workers/Modular, BR Devils, BG Squirrels, BRGW Fungus/Saprolings, RGW Eggs, BGW Walls (and I may be forgetting one or two works in progress). I have BUG Snow and BUG Morph, WUBRG Cascade and WUBRG Monarchy, GWU Enchantments, BRW Battle Cry, WUBRG Green Devotion, WUBRG Matters, WUBRG Augment/Host/Mutate, WUBRG Gates, WUBRG Uncounterable ("Yes"), and UBRG Landfall. Out of all of those, I can pick out subthemes of Artifacts, +1/+1 Counters, Equipment, Tokens and Lands. Not too many of them, however, are the focus of the decks.

I run a Rakdos Lifegain deck, with Raphael, Fiendish Savior. Just incidental lifegain by lifelink on devils/demons is amazingly strong and consistent

I love my infinite combo Shalai and Hallar deck. Also my second favorite is the tribal mechanic. Whether that is my Riders of Rohan or my newest precon Party Time

What i think this video showed is that categorizing archetypes in edh is hard due to the level of crossover. Because every conflict was what you'd consider or not consider that theme because it crosses over more with that name in your opinion

Playing Abzan ETB / reanimate with Colfenor

minthara merciless soul is good non obvious commander for sacrifice theme, little bit of aristocrats but mainly aggro and thats refreshing definitely one of my best decks

Most of my decks either work around tokens, be they creature or artifact tokens, tribal decks and theme decks.

People like to use Peer into the Abyss with that Sheoldred. I believe that leads to the misconception of 'wheel' with her.

im sure i saw a monored lifegain burn deck. or green lifegain decks too (mostly with white/black but also with blue as landfall^^)

I wouldn't call Prosper treasure, but exile tribal. Sure, I get a lot of treasure tokens, but that's not the meat and potatoes.

Some of this could be the way EDHREC codes a deck behind the scenes. When someone make an Urtet deck, it sees that there are a lot of artifacts and labels it as such. While to you and I, the deck is clearly Myr tribal.

I like how I can say my primary colors and you already know what deck archetype I have. At the same time... it's kind of limiting to be a Golgari person.

With Slimefoot and Squee, you don't sacrifice creatures to Slimefoot, you sac to some other source and use Slimefoot to recur it and get more value, possibly infinitely. I'm sort of working on a Slimefoot deck and there's so many directions you can take him that I'm having trouble limiting myself. Currently I have a hybrid between combo and aristocrats with him

Saw a Zurgo deck this past weekend. Kid killed me (and the rest of the table) with Godo equipped with Kaldra Compleat. It was sick.

+1/+1 is so vague as an archetypes. It's split between voltron, lifegain, proliferate, and just like superathem.

I count Teferi's Puzzle Box as a wheel and it is backbreaking with Sheoldred out

Love the OG parkway flag

I built Graaz and artifacts are definitely it's theme. There arent many Eldrazi that get better as a 5/3. Fun deck to build, fun to play. Havent won with it yet, but it always threatens the board!

I got two reanimator decks, two aristocrat decks, one equipment deck, one aura deck, one cascade deck, one landfall deck and a polymorph deck.

Puzzle box is absolutely wheel. You aren’t really wheeling if there is no is no red. Janky ones may mess with it.

Infinite turns, Strom Crow Tribal deck❤.

I have WUBRG Dragon deck with Sisay, Weatherlight Captain as my commander. Yes the Ur-Dragon is in my deck

Nev is the epitome of wheel / sling. No less than 3+ 2 card combos. If the deck is built right you welcome the puzzlebox

If there is a theme in my decks, I play a lot like Josh Lee Kwai where I love value. The esper colours in particular. The only difference is I am not a fan of infinite combos which I consider lazy or CEDH play. I like powerful combos and synergy but where I still allow my opponents a chance, so the game is not just ended because I drew 2 cards or tutored a win con combo.

I have a raffine reanimator w a small +1 counter and draw matters sub theme; a Dimir voltron deck with Inquisitor Eisenhorn w a artifact subtheme; a Demon tribal blink deck w Be’Lakor; a Samut token deck w Jetmir in the 99 and Deathleaper as a secret commander; and my new favorite is a sultai ‘big dumb spells’ deck w Damia that wants to play Breach the Multiverse a bunch 😈 Sweet vid

@GigaLordShinyMudkip1

11 ай бұрын

Do you have a Raffine list available? I pulled a Raffine awhile back and am not sure the right balance of big reanimation targets and small creatures to trigger Raffine’s ability.

@Demon-command

11 ай бұрын

@@GigaLordShinyMudkip1 i play 40 creatures and no mana rocks. around 8 fattys to reanimate if u count 6 drops. no sol ring lol i very much like curving out into raffine. the deck looks weird but i win a lot

No tribal? I'd say that is pretty high up, although EDHREC treats each tribe on its own... in the end they are all the same with flavours.

Almost all decks have a ton of overlap of archetypes since you need to take advantage of one to help out the other. Like Aristocrats, and token gen, and general value engine cards, like my Korvold deck and Edgar Markov have. Same goes for Artifact decks and treasure tokens like with my Urza deck, albeit it's not nearly as prevalent in my Urza deck, as my aristocrat Korvold deck is.

I play a couple tribal decks, theft, some graveyard decks, theft, jund (whatever I find interesting in the colors) theft, I have a tivit blink deck which is just a BLAST to play, theft, I have an artifact deck, theft, one enchantress deck that I really regret building its super boring but I don’t really have another home for the cards so I keep it around oh and EVEN MORE theft

@duoxm6713

11 ай бұрын

I have one theft deck, and I also have the Tivit Blink deck. Love it.

Let's see... I've got my token aristocrats with Teysa Karlov, my Landfall Aristocrats with Omnath, Locus of Rage, and my extreme reanimator aristocrats deck with Slimefoot and Squee, and have ideas for a fighting aristocrats deck with Gimli, Mournful Avenger... I don't have a problem, you have a problem!

I try not to build a new deck unless it does something different than my other existing decks. I think there are 2 exceptions. Yennett and Kaalia play somewhat similar and Tymna/Ravos plays somewhat similar to my Sidar Jabari as a tribal deck with recursion (Sidar Jabari is a more aggressive style of play though).

Should you even make your deck do one thing (voltron)? Because if an opponent directly counters a single strategy like graveyard shenanigans, etc then you can’t do anything. I played against a guy who was running beamtown bullies, but I had graveyard exiling and sacrifice outlets in my strategy, so he was just dead in the water. Is it better to have vaguer wincons/strats and play goodstuff to answer the opponent’s stuff just in case?

@TresBS1

11 ай бұрын

Well, it depends on the strategy and how high of a level of play you're attempting to go for. Lower levels of play have much more variability, as there are all kinds of scenarios and board/game states you can end of dealing with. On the other hand, the closer you get to cEDH, the more narrow the situations you are going to face are. At lower levels, it's far easier to add in goodstuff to round your deck out, because games are usually longer and you're going to be facing a wider range of potential threats. Sure it may dilute your main strategy somewhat, but that's just the price you pay so that you don't get stonewalled. As long you're not picking a strategy that's too weak or narrow, it's not too hard to find the balance between your main strategy and some backup tactics that still feed into what the deck overall wants to do.

@Garl_Vinland

11 ай бұрын

@@TresBS1 Yeah, but my point is when you start to really optimize your deck strategies; like say you're going full in on Voltron, and your opponent is going full in on some grave pact sacrifice strategy, it just automatically wins against the Voltron player. Where as that sacrifice deck would probably outright lose against a Korvold deck or something that relies on tons of tokens. So then it just devolves games into rock paper scissors. So my point is shouldn't voltron decks have token generators as an answer to pact strategies, and shouldnt token decks have Voltron options to answer lifegain strategies etc?

@TresBS1

11 ай бұрын

​@@Garl_Vinland The answer to those questions lie in various circumstances. Can the strategy you're running deal with the problem? I cannot even compare the two examples you gave because the fact is that Voltron vs Grave Pact is completely different ballgame than Tokens vs Lifegain. Voltron vs Grave Pact is the worst possible matchup for Voltron due to its very nature and how to deal with it depends heavily on your colors and the exact nature of your Voltron strategy. Because you're better off countering the Grave Pact with Blue or blowing it up with Green, White or Black than trying to produce fodder to outrace it in most circumstances. Voltron is a sink or swim strategy with not a lot of wiggle room, that requires you to setup as quickly as possible so that you can start aggroing before everyone else can get their bearing. If you devote resources to token production, you've taken away from that. Plus, tokens either take time to produce or a good deal of mana to produce en masse. Shoot, the only commander I can think of who could reasonably find a balance between the two is Narset, Enlightened Exile. And the only reason she could even try is because the nature of her playstyle and her colors. Narset has access to cheap CMC token producers that are based on playing non-creature spells, which ties into her Prowess which she extend to her whole board. Then she's in Blue, Red and White which gives her options to deal with a lot of what could be thrown at her including Grave Pact. And even then, that's more token/prowess with a splash of Voltron. So, to address your point: yes you should include ways to play around your deck's weaknesses but only if won't detract from your actual strategy.

@Garl_Vinland

11 ай бұрын

@@TresBS1 I mean, there's also building Voltron around Sigarda Host of Herons that completely negates grave pacts, but my point is if you have a deck built around a specific commander that gets countered by another commander, you are kind of forced to add answers that dont necessarily contribute to your strategy. You mentioned adding removal to specific enchantments but how is drawing into a destroy enchantment card going to help a Voltron player against matchups that dont require said removal? Lifegain decks usually have a lot of control that prevents tokens from being able to overrun an opponent. but these are specific examples I'm using, the fact is that most decks work differently from each other even within their own "theme", unless you're net decking.

@TresBS1

11 ай бұрын

@@Garl_Vinland At the end of the day, there will always be bad matchups for a deck and the ability to compensate for that will be dependent on what's actually available. Outside of Sigarda, there's only two other cards that outright stop your opponent from making you sac things. Who said the removal had to be specific? Beast Within, Generous Gift, Chaos Warp, etc. are all staple removals that can hit any troublesome permanent that doesn't have hexproof/shroud or are indestructible. That's not even mentioning counterspells. And token decks have ways of killing the entire table regardless of how much life they have. Plus with things like commander damage, toxic/infect (from things like Triumph of the Hordes) or alternate wincons like Halo Fountain, Tokens have a lot more of leg to stand on. But at the end of the day, there are tons of hypotheticals. There's too many variables to be had to really pin down a definite answer to a lot of things in the game. Unless what we're talking about is something extremely niche or limited.

In my meta at least, Brunor Battlehammer has become the equipment commander par excellence.

Faldorn! impulse draw, cascade that produce burn damage when I cast from exile and big mon for board. Knight tribal And Aragon charm deck

Artefact is a card typing, I gues you could classify it as an archetype. But not more than a "creature deck", or a "instant/Sorcery" deck or "enchantment" deck. There are so many cards they support what cardtype you play and different playstyles around most cardtypes that those labels are no longer that useful.

Niv-Mizzet Reborn and the archtype is multicolor good stuff? Lol i have rules i adhered to for building but with no real planned synergies.

I guess this counts as an Archetype, but I'm playing Mono White Happily Ever After, which I guess is more of a Life Gain/Token creation Archetype. Then my Signature deck is Clones/Mill in my Tasigur with Gyruda Companion deck.

@jacquesdespadas

11 ай бұрын

I managed to get my HEA deck down to UW. I bow down to your mono-white version! 🙌

Does sacrificing cause death triggers?

@edhdeckbuilding

8 ай бұрын

it depends. is there a rest in peace or leyline of the void in play? if not then yes it does.

Personally a favorite archetype of mine is Equipment.. my main commander deck is a boros Bruenor BattleHammer

They are definitely doing these categories based on a data science/analytics standpoint and we know commander is a bit more grey than that. When you talk what cards get played that’s black and white but archetype needs some really heavy analysis to actually get to some kind of sane data.

Hi there. I wanted to share that the word tribal has been replace by Wizards. There was a change to show respect to others regarding the word tribal.

So.. I made a quick list of really expensive cards that I never play with, and it turns out that they're all like blue, and red. I never play those. So, adding in the black cards that I love, ad bolas in there while I'm at it, and there you go! Arch nemesis archetype.....

Graaz is definitely an artifact deck. Well, mine is anyway 🍻

Playing Voltron WUBRG with Cromat and Nephilims

I've noticed lately a few MTG podcast streamers are starting to replace the "tribal" verbiage with "typal".

Trelasarra is deceptively powerful for a life gain deck, she's easily my strongest deck

Hell yeah Parkway Drive!

my initial assumption is that the true most popular architype is Tribal. For example, I have a Giada, Font of Hope Angel tribal deck that would also certainly be considered a +1/+1 counter deck, a lifegain deck, A token deck, and also probably has enough artifacts to count that as an architype as well. tons of Tribal deck have a lot of stuff that would cross over into a bunch of others, if they count tribal as an architype itself then it should absolutely be #1, but if they count each tribe as a separate archetype I guess technically they wouldn't be the first but that feels a little disingenuous.

@alanevans5353

11 ай бұрын

@@shadowfate05 a little strange, but that explains why tribal isn't #1

I agree with all but 1 thing demo said…..in my opinion aristocrats is showcasing a deck that is sacrificing something for some sort of benefit be it drain, draw, mana, life etc…

You got me thinking outside the box, Aristocrats is very much a graveyard theme. An aristocrats deck only works if your stuff makes it to the graveyard. The graveyard is probably more essential to the theme than a sacrifice outlet. Rest In Peace, black Leyline, Dauthi V and the plethora of exile effects totally annihilate my Teysa deck. Interesting 🤔

@greatbrandini3967

11 ай бұрын

Not entirely true, but close. I think a more accurate idea would be to say that you're creating creatures with the intention of sacrificing them for some pay off. I would say that an effect that says that you can't sacrifice creatures/permanents hits aristocrat decks harder than graveyard hate. Sac outlets are the enablers of aristocrats, though sac outlets typically have their own separate payoffs

@brendans1983

11 ай бұрын

@@greatbrandini3967 I think you may have misunderstood my angle. The cards, and effects, im referring to do not allow things to even make it to a graveyard, which means they do not 'die'. And then do not trigger 95% of important aristocrat death triggers. Preventing sacrificing, like with Yasharn, only prevents me from triggering my stuff how I specifically want, and at instant speed. Attacking, blocking and, especially, boardwipes all still advance the plan, albeit at a slower pace, and do not require the sacrifice of a single permanent.

@greatbrandini3967

11 ай бұрын

@@brendans1983 I'm aware of how cards such as RIP and Leyline of the Void shut off death triggers. However, Commanders such as Korvold, Ghave, Ziatora, Mazirek, and Proshh don't need death triggers to combo off. Also, cards such as Birthing Pod, Altars, Goblin Bombardment, and most green payoff cards all get shut down by sacrifice hate. I guess it really depends on how you are building your aristocrats, but with the decks I've seen, shutting down their ability to freely sacrifice their creatures also doubled as a way to shut down their disenchant creatures such as Haywire More and Caustic Caterpillar, 2 staples for aristocrats with access to green. I have far more experience with G+ aristocrats than Orzhov aristocrats, so it might be different for those decks

If you like Tatiova you're going to love Aesi👍🏻

I have a sen triplets wheel deck ibrun the sheoldred in it

@davidcrain453

11 ай бұрын

It also features tergrid the wheel teferi and teferi puzzle box also megrim waste not stuff like that

Playing a tribal treasure dragons theme with Ganax, Astral Hunter and Agent of the Iron Throne as the background. Pretty much generating a bunch of treasures and dumping them into an X spell like Crackle with Power, Exsanguinate, and Torment of Hailfire

Wheels is #8? Really surprising. Kess is my wheels commander, with Nekusar in the 99. Double wheel or ritual wins games. Wouldn't consider it spellslinger even though that's the support the commander offers.

Vazi is queen of the Treasure token commanders. So fun, so much value

I play meren aristocrats!

I have first strike and deathtouch deck 😅

@brendans1983

11 ай бұрын

Zagras?

What about tribal most of my decks are tribal, maybe not the best decks but for sure the most fun decks, most of the decks here and what is played '' I do not care about the theme'', for me it is take a theme and make the best from that. And yes I have also an artifact deck with Sydri and a lot of artifacts you normally do not take and make them creatures and fight.

No tribal? That's probably the #1

The fallacy of edhrec is decks built does not indicate the frequency a deck is played. They are just deck lists which can be made without actually building and play testing.

Hey just wanted to ask if you could, if you talk about something like archetypes, put the archetype as text on the botton? Would help a lot. also you could do timestamps but not necessarily

The one where i get crushed in every single game. My pod is gross. I mainly play an Urza Chief artificer deck and Aristrocrats built around Elas Il-Kor. i win less than 8% of our games so not very good in our pod.

The more I look at the list of themes on edhrec, the more it does NOT look like it actually means archetype or strategy. It's taking stuff that describes the decks made and pools it into the theme. Tasigur is never always a pod deck, but people build pod decks with it. Zurgo is not always an equipment deck, but some people build equipment decks with him. People don't lways build Nymris, Oona's Trickster as a Faerie deck, but some people put faerie cards with Nymris. Some people don't always build Oona as mill, but some people focus on the mill. You're focusing too much on the theme and commander, and not the deck list or stats.

@ebbandfloatzel

11 ай бұрын

I will emphasize again, you are focusing WAY TOO MUCH on the commander. You're essentially pigeon-holing the commanders to be a "single deck" and that's just not it. Commanders can fit different archetypes even if they seem "set in stone." Tiamat? Man, she searches your library for 5 Dragons she HAS to be a Dragon deck right? Well mine isn't. My Tiamat deck is a triball tribal "maskwood nexus" deck that uses powerful tribal matters cards like Rick Steadfast Leader, Atla Palani, Rin and Seri, Scourge of Valkas, etc to turn low mana changelings into massive threats or even combo material. Most of the deck is actually comprised of slivers to get the ball rolling, and usually threatens to end the game pretty much any time Tiamat resolves.

Sacrifice decks are aristocrat decks ?

@ackbooh9032

11 ай бұрын

He's saying precisely that draining dying trigger is the defining factor. Sac outlets are necessary but not the main criteria, since there are non aristocrat sacrifice decks, like Jund Goblin/Dragon tribal or Rakdos ping.

Red spirits

I play hugs and politics mostly