Thankyou Llewellyn. At 66 yrs, your vids have improved my riding no end. Have been practicing this and have incorporated it into my daily riding over the last 5 years, off-road and on. Its become and ingrained skill. I feel like a youngster again. Never to old to learn!

@flatlandriver2471

Жыл бұрын

Also 66. Bought a little klx230 for the mileage and because I travel some gravel roads. Haven’t ridden since 1981 tho and was deathly afraid of gravel back then so need to build some skills to combat the fear and bad habits. Llewellyn’s explanation of using the brakes, including the front, to load the suspension makes perfect sense. But there’s gravel like this video and then there’s gravel that’s 2-3” deep of 1/2” diameter rounded stones and not a curve in sight. Manitoba, Canada. Cheering you on🍻

@geoffgauci7590

Жыл бұрын

How do people say what’s once you’ve fallen off a horse you should get back on it and start doing it again, which I’m gonna do it again. All I want is people to support me as much as I possibly can and make new friends to help me on my journey to do my CBT and get my A license and once of achieved that I want to do the adventure, riding and touring. I’m living on my own. I’m divorced. I’m a big football fan West Ham but I want to try new and fantastic new things if anyone can help me be much appreciated

@geoffgauci7590

Жыл бұрын

And I’m 52 years of age

@Fromatic

10 ай бұрын

​@@geoffgauci7590get yourself a crf or klx and join the trf, a lot of them are in 40s/50s and upwards, you'll learn a lot, have the support and find yourself on great rides, would make a great foundation if you wanted to move onto an adventure bike with bigger trips on your own or again with trf people who also do adventure bike rideouts

@rbrtmllr

8 ай бұрын

I'm reading all the ages here and wish we could hang out! (50y)

Personally, what helped me the most on loose surfaces or off road, was simply keeping 'eyes up' looking as far ahead as is practicable. When looking down close to you, one's focus becomes reactionary and your balance is totally off as the head is down and your body will compensate. It sounds weird, but try it, keep your eyes up focusing ahead and watch how stable the bike becomes and your speed off-road improves.

Coming from a dirtbike background I found it natural to ride on dirt roads on a adventure bike, I think if you have the opportunity to ride a dirtbike first before going on a big adventure bike you'll find it alot easier when you make that leap.

@tomaslight

2 жыл бұрын

Most riders that i know (including myself) started with heavy bikes, then lighter, then lighter, then 2T on a track. Riding dirt fast on heavy bikes, like GS1250 does not make sense. It is high price to pay if fail- in money and your heath. In video cornering standing look cool, but these bikes are not designed to ride in attack position and nothing can be changed. I still ride 650cc on gravel, but slow and safe. btw trail braking is good thing on a bike.

@PetrolJunkie

Жыл бұрын

@@tomaslight I ride R1250 GSA and I wouldn't be taking those corners on gravel at the speeds he's taking them but I would likely be on my feet rather than my rearend. What I've come to learn about riding a heavy bike offroad is that sometimes you need more speed than the little guys, some times you go slower. It's a little bit different skill set because sometimes the weight helps, sometimes it doesn't. But letting the bike do bike things unhindered is always a good thing and you have to get on your feet to let it move around under you. Rest where appropriate, and a gravel track like that is nice clean stretch of road where a rider can rest a bit if you slow down. A lot less risk of losing traction if you aren't trying to push your grip to it's limits. I take my GSA on single tracks where 450s and smaller are prefered. Everyone is always amazed at how the big girl can perform. I keep saying it that the real limit of any motorcycle is the rider.

It’s been 3 years that i practice trail braking in most corners on asphalt; i love it; i didn’t knew i could also do it on gravel roads; thanks a lot; i will try it in my next ride; best regards from Montreal.

@russellborn515

2 жыл бұрын

Same. Looking forward to trying it.

Thank you! This is the BEST explanation of trail braking I've heard yet!

@nurseratchet8535

2 жыл бұрын

+1

Really well explained. The maintaining the "attitude of the bike" is spot on... Work with the suspension, don't fight it.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Yes!

Thanks for this video, I'll start working on this on my next ride!

I have never really thought about it in dirt but it makes sense. Thanks.

Been riding 50years. You insrtuction makes me feel like a beginner. Fantastic stuff.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Glad to help!

Looking forward to putting these skills to use! Thanks for such brilliant and clear videos!

One thing from my experience is that trail braking is truly something that can only be perfected with practice. It is a perishable skill because you end up losing the "feel" for it the less often times you do it. I always make it a point to trailbrake every corner...and I ride city streets. I am definitely very far from being perfect with it but I enjoy every time I get it right.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree!

@MatheusFerreira-lg3pl

2 жыл бұрын

Right on bro!

@HartyBiker

2 жыл бұрын

You mean I have to ride my motorbike more to keep up my skills? Oh what a pity hahaha :D

Thank you ! I was always told to never use the front brake cornering ~ trusted my friend and did it ! Didn't lose one corner on the last trip learning & trusting this skill.

Excellent instructional video as always 👍

Great tips! Hits the Demo nicely. Saving Lives is cool! I ride in the Appalachian Mountains on Forest Service/Gravel Rural with mostly blind corners with all types of 2 way traffic (Logging Trucks!!) and stress the importance of these tips to everyone riding with me..

This transformed my riding on dirt and gravel in a huge way! I'm much faster and ride with alot more control! Thank you very much!

Thanks! Can't wait to put this to practice!

Thanks for this video. I started trail braking on the street a couple of years ago and it made a huge difference in my confidence. I never really considered it on dirt until watching this video the other day. Much to my surprise it felt really good. I'm very excited about practicing it in the future. I'm also shocked at how many people are resistant to trail braking in general. They all seem to argue that it is dangerous and should be reserved for racers on the track. Truth be known we all trail brake with our cars every time we go around a corner. I consider it one of the most important skills to learn and it's not really difficult to learn.

@Surpriseify

8 күн бұрын

@@shaundisch2020 Tell me you have 0 idea how trailbraking works without telling me you have 0 idea how it works. :)

Very well explained and the breakdown on the video and graphics helped make this a well demonstrated concept. Thanks a lot.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks and thanks for watching 🙂

Hi, best mini tip monday ever! Great video, phenomenal descrition. Thanks a lot

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ricardo!

Love watching your stuff Llel. Perfect KZread. Great filming & editing, passionate about the subject and great at passing it on effectively. Sublime stuff. But you know the best bit? That you can do this with your dad. Keep it up and see you when I get round to Level 2!

Awesome video chap, and explains one of my issues around braking before the corner, then unsettling the bike by coming off the brakes. Will definitely practice this!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it helped! Maybe we should find a place to practice together 😉

As always .Clear and precise thanks for the tip this will be something I will remember.cheers from Australia

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for giving us time!

Thank you for the video. Excellent tips and a skill we can all get better at.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Giant Loop!

Going to give this a go this weekend. Thanks.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Love to hear how it goes!

Great lesson..thanks for video.

I agrée this is an overlooked skill… one I am trying to develop. Thanks for this!

Just started doing this on the road, really didn't now I can do the same off road. Thanks for your tips over the years!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Glad to help! Thanks for watching :)

very helpful ... thank you.

Always good content. Thank you.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Paul. Thanks for watching!

So well articulated-well done ✅ . The key here it seems is to be extremely gradual in engaging the brakes.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Relatively so yes!

You deserve way more subs! Excellent video! Keep it up.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I'm working on it 😂

Beautifully explained.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Very good tip. I will practice this a lot!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

You got this!

I just spent five days of scootering around the remote parts of the states of Utah and Wyoming. The entire time I focused on improving my techniques and this very video kept echoing in my head. While very few turns were as smooth as in the video - without additional factors of concern such as larger lose/embedded boulders, deep sandy ruts, flowing water, mud, washouts, etc. - the technique of trail braking worked like a charm and I’m gradually improving at it. While fancy foot-work on the rear brake pedal is still developing for me, and later braking is also a skill that needs improving, I feel tremendously more confident in most turns now. Yes, the added traction is indeed a game changer. I so wish I had been taught about it many years ago. My sincerest gratitude.

Well put sir.

I ride a 640 ktm which feels big and all the knowledge I can get helps immensely.

Great video well explained. Thx!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching Steve!

Excellent video and explaination! I am coasting into gravel corners and now I know why it feels unsettled. Can't wait until my ankle heals and I start practicing trail braking!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Hope it heals quick!

A+. Love mini tip Monday.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers!

For those who wonder of you can use this technique on a non-ABS bike, you surely can but you need to drag and modulate especially the front brake and very light application on the rear brake, or no rear at all (useful in straight line). Also move forward to put weight on the front, elbows up. Comined with the engine braking as mentioned here, it is more stable that you think even on really loose gravel.

Great video. I have to remind myself to load the front suspension more going into turn. Hope to see more of these off-road tips. Excellent. Kam in USA

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

We make a fairly large amount of them! Next one in a couple of weeks :D

Thanks, this was exactly what i needed. I just started riding off road and coasting on gravel corners just feels really sketchy. It feels like if i do one wrong movement i wash out. Ill definitely give this a try, makes complete sense from a logic standpoint. Thanks for the clear and to the point video.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Mike! Let us know how you get on!

One day i would love to adventure ride out in country like that. Absolutely beautiful!!

Very helpful! Thanks!

Great video! Thank you.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome! Thanks for watching!

Game changer... Thank you!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome!

Thanks mate, great explanation

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

No problem 👍 Thanks for watching!

I began doing this by trial and error but didn't realize that was the "trail braking" I'd been hearing about until now. Thanks for the clarification.

@DAstudioLT

Жыл бұрын

Same here, I noticed on my chopper that accelerating and braking constantly makes my ride safer. Instead of just riding in the city at a constant speed.

@foxtrotbravo1744

29 күн бұрын

I think that how naturally someone rides a motorcycle depends somewhat on how much they rode a bike as a kid -- most of these instructional videos seem like just common sense.

Great tip thanks

A great vid , I thought tyre pressures may have been mentioned, but maybe thats another topic. Well done.

The best. Many thanks. I rode with a group of guys that shunned criticized going into corners. I knew they wrong

Fantastic! I love MT Mondays!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

I love your profile pic!

@bradb2514

2 жыл бұрын

LOL! I’m a grumpy sod!

Awesome 🔥

I apply the same principle to riding in the rain, although in the rain the front brake is peeled off slightly before the rear. You didn't mention foot peg weighting which I thought would go hand in hand with your excellent video. The reason I mention this is because there are newbies out there that are not aware of weighting the outside foot peg and what it does. Thankyou for sharing 👍

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

You haven't watched the next video in the series yet 😏

So true!

Great vid - thanks! I ride "backwards" (no, not that kind of backwards), I start out on gavel, then ride to pavement.I live from 5 to 8 miles away from nearest pavement, depending on which route I take from my home. I ride a dirt bike (street legal / knobbies) a commuter 300 (Mitas E07 rubber) and a bone stock Vstrom 650 with OEM tires. It's always fun to try to remember which bike/tires I'm on from one day to the next. Any tip to help on gravel is appreciated. Thanks again! -Ray, from the wilderness near Durango, CO

Works in a car too I find, especially when it’s wet or there’s snow on the road. You absolutely cannot be harsh with the application and have to feel the weight balance transfer, it makes riding and driving sooooo much smoother

Want more grip in the corners, increased accuracy of your lines, less chance of binning it? Trail Braking. Great video guys.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching Stephen!

great vid! more on board explanation pls!

I agree 100% with trail breaking . But my only experience riding BMW Boxers ,was in the early 80s, riding my friends R75 s and R80s in Germany's Black Forest . I was with the Canadian Army during that period and i must admit that seeing somebody trailbreaking a Boxer, made me gringe. Great Video

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it! They've changed a bit since then 🤣

@bombadil5817

2 жыл бұрын

Greetings from Lahr, Black Forest, canadian are fine people there! 👍😏😀

Do the GS’s in your video have the Sports Suspension/20mm longer? How do you find this compared to the standard GS suspension?

I found the Karoo 3's and Pirellis I have on now also made a hell of a difference in my confidence to trail brake on gravel.That road in the video is endless in Colombia and a lot more tropical.The other fun part here is red Saprolite mud-add it in to that road in a random manner just for 30-50 meters where there was a landslide.Gravel aint too bad-Red mud will give you 3rd degree skids-in yer keks mind you!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

I like the tyres on gravel a lot too. They're really nice feeling! That red mud, especially when it's wet it terrifying. We get some of it here too 🤣

I’ve been practicing trail braking on the street for some years, with great results. However, I’ve always assumed that the grip levels on gravel roads would be too low to do it there, but will try ASAP. Btw, one thing that wasn’t explicitly mentioned is to also overlap the braking and throttle. That is, while nearly at the apex apply a small amount of throttle BEFORE letting go of the brake (your brake pressure should be minimal at this point) and then smoothly increase the throttle while letting go of the brake. This way you avoid that slight “hiccup” when switching from braking to applying the gas.

@joem8496

2 жыл бұрын

I was wondering about that too. usually that's the part that requires the most skill and practice.

@Robnoxious77

2 жыл бұрын

agreed, especially with modern epa compliant bikes that use a fuel cut off on decel which can make the throttle feel a bit snatchy on application. It’s one of those things that’s very hard to master but extremely satisfying when you get it right

@MrYawn1

Жыл бұрын

Trail braking on the street really goes against any form of UK advanced riding. I wouldn’t bother. If you are trail braking on the street, you are going too fast

@nugginusslover476

4 ай бұрын

​@MrYawn1 I have never ridden in the UK, but I see no reason, why trail braking wouldn't be applicable there?

I agree with all you say, but it is funny you used a BMW telelever bike for the demo since those do not compress much under braking!

This was new for me, really interesting. I'm sure this will be good stuff, gonna try i in the weekend :-)

I've always has this question regarding long corners and trail braking. You reduce the speed before the corner, you decrease pressure as you get into the corner and add lean angle and keep just a tiny bit of break. However, the corner is so long that the tiny bit of breaking slows you too much and even if you loosen the break the motorcycle keeps slowing due to engine breaking. In these cases I add a tiny bit of acceleration to keep the speed but that changes the bike geometry and I loose a lot of the advantages of this technique. Is there a better way to deal with those? Great video

@Gismo3333

2 жыл бұрын

I think you break to much. That is not trail-breaking, but just breaking in the corner. TB is just touching the breaks, not adjusting your speed much. Don't think you are supposed to get to 0% throttle. Then you can lose the back, and get a really cool Marc Marquez slide, in the corner. 😳😀

Thanks for this amazing video. Good to know about the trail breaking. Last week I have an accident on my KTM 1290 My front wheel went into a small mountain of loose and deep gravel with a bit of soft sand, and it started moving everywhere like a shimmy/Wobble, I don't remember touching the brakes, I remember keeping the accelerator, but I could not control it and directly to the ground. Can I ask you some questions to help to avoid this in the future, please? 1. what to do in these situations when the front tire start moving/Wobble in gravel 2. were put the body weight in gravel and deep gravel roads? Put the body weight more to the front or in to the read tire like sand? 3. what is the correct setup of the traction control on gravel roads in off-road mode or completely off? 4. my ktm has an adjustable steering damper, I don't know if put it on hard/tighter position is good or rather bad in these situations? Or in gravel/sand roads. Putting it too hard can limit the self-alignment of the front wheel, the same effect as if I were holding it too tight? thanks a lot!!

Great video as always! Imho, it would be even greater with a camera angle showing the work with the front brake and the throttle, at least for a noob like me! 😁

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Good idea!

With the linked brakes on the GS are you using only front brake lever pressure?

Very very interesting!!! Just wondering if it works even on a climb...is that technique applicable? Thank you!!

So this explains why braking in a straight line before the corner then coasting through it is making the bike lose grip. Thankyou. It's taken me a long time to realise this mistake👍

@cooleyballs1

2 жыл бұрын

No.. Not lose grip.. It makes the bike more stable.

@Surpriseify

8 күн бұрын

@@cooleyballs1 Trailbraking undeniably increases the available grip so what phil said was not wrong.

I'm trying to visualize how this feels. Before trail breaking, I would apply both brakes in a straight line before the curve then accelerate out of the curve. So with this technique, do I still slow down before the curve but still leave a little too much speed I know has to be taken up with trail braking in the curve? I'm just trying to prepare my mindset.

@PetrolJunkie

Жыл бұрын

Try it on pavement first. It's almost the identical techniques. Find a section of curvy road you know very well and carry a little more speed into the corner than you normally would and use your front brake to finish bringing you down to a comfortable speed. Roll onto the throttle as you release the brake on the way out. Just remember you are not on a race track. The reason is this: pavement has way more traction and will be way more forgiving if you make a mistake as in not crashing at all. While you're out there you can transition to a groomed gravel road where there shouldn't be any big surprises half way through a corner. Then hit a familiar trail. It's best to ramp up a new skill.

BACK IT IN BABY!!! love taking the Road King out on the gravel

By the way, another thing you do when braking and compressing the fork is shortening the wheelbase, and increasing effective steering-head angle due to the dive in the front. This makes the bike more nimble and in combination with the additional grip you get from the load on the front, is ideal for cornering.

I wish I had a road like that near me!

Great information thanks.👍🇨🇦

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome Tom!

This totally explains why when I feel like I am "riding aggressively" I feel more traction... when I ride harder I tend to brake later and further into the corner!

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

That'll be why!

I live in NZ and locally have very twisty and steep unsealed roads which can have deep gravel or smooth clay. They are often steeply cambered from the crown of the road. Trail braking works exactly as you demonstrate but it must be tuned to what you are riding over. My bike is old, heavy and has road biased rubber. I have to transition from the brakes to the throttle before I get much lean on in a lot of places, often before the apex on corners which wind back on themselves. A few pairs of undies had gone in the bin before I got the balance of brakes and throttle right. A video of what to do when the front cries enough and how to use the throttle to balance and steer the bike through a scary corner would go a bit deeper down the rabbit hole and may save some plastic. Excellent vid, a scary number of riders still consider trail braking to be pointless or dangerous.

@kenpickett9317

2 жыл бұрын

Same. I’m Oz and find that steep downhills with a right hander at the bottom with steep camber and loose gravel over clay are particularly challenging. As you’re already braking moderately on the downhill, by the time you get to the corner there isn’t enough cornering capacity or grip to get around without the front end washing out. So you either cut the corner to shorten the turn (bad idea) or run it wide with a high risk of washing out the front under brakes. Either way, arsehole pucker factor is quite high.

That sequence at 6:45 where your dad demonstrates is super pedagogical. More of that sort please. Either by rider following or using drone.

@anxiousappliance

2 жыл бұрын

You saying his dad could be replaced by a drone? LOL

@JoshuaClarked

Жыл бұрын

absolutely this... it was incredibly helpful just to see it in action while it was being explained.

@relevation0

Жыл бұрын

Pedagogical!!!

thanks for the advice, I'll have a crack at it. Whats your advice on body position in corners, I tend to weight the outside peg and position myself accordingly on gravel/dirt roads I find it grips better going into or at the apex of a corner

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Spot on!!

I am 53, been riding since I was 10, never heard anyone explain this. And, value the time riding with your father. Priceless...

Amazing video and advice all the way. Is the clip filmed in Wales?

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah it was!

Awesome

Awesome information! All my riding is trail/ challenging Enduro and cornering is definitely a weak point on the trail for me for the very reasons you described. I'm going to start practicing this. For some odd reason it seems as right hand turns are more problematic for me. Anyone else get that too?

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

Sure. Keep practicing them and make your corner basics are all right. We have a MTM coming soon on that subject!

Great video, one thing though, you talk about using both front and rear brakes progressively, however on BMW r1250's the front brake also applies pressure on the rear brake, on the new 21's this also happens in Enduro Pro mode although to a lesser extent, just asking if you think that matters and that the electronic assist is better being supplemented by direct rider input?

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

My understanding is that since the linked brakes were introduced they've always worked in every mode. It's a permanent link. When I personally ride a GS a predominantly use the front brake to do both. This is often because the rear brake pressure is quite often spot on. However, there are also plenty of times where the rear brake is important. The answer is really situational and depends but importantly the rear still has a place in your riding on a GS.

I have always trail braked on a street bike but I didn't know I could do this on an adv bike on the dirt so what your say is use both brakes to trail brake not just the front? Oh and what about on sand roads?

Awesome tip video, well done guys! And the comment award of the day goes to..."those people are wrong..." 😁

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣 I'd been doing some research and it irritated me 😅

Does this apply only to front brake or also to the rear?

Brilliant video. Where abouts was this filmed? Would love to try these tips on that exact road! 🤞🏻

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

South Wales. One of the trails is UCR near Coelbren and the other a UCR near Sennybridge.

Perhaps someone could clarify for me. After accelerating towards the corner, do you close the throttle completely before dragging the brake? It was not completely clear to me whether there is still some throttle through the corner.

If you ride dirt bike with friends and they start correcting you with all sorts of this kind of advice, one thing that might stop all of that is to let them ride your bike for awhile. Not all bikes handle the same.

Proper braking is important but it’s secondary to shifting your weight to the inside foot peg (turning left weight the left foot peg, right turn weight the right foot peg). This places your full body weight on the tire contact patch on the inside of the turn.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

I'm sorry, but this isn't quite right.

Careful on sandy corners though, keep the momentum up and don't put too much wait on the front

Firstly great, lucid video. So having tucked the front end of my Fizzy 46 years ago I’ve never since braked deep into a corner. I have the cornering speed (and probably skills) of that Fizzy still, albeit on a rather large BMW as shown in the video. 15-20 years ago I was fortunate enough to have Pavey senior run me through the off road skills course and power slides on the old 1150, then 650 and finally the 1200. It was an amazing experience. Sadly I still coast up to corners and drift round with the aimlessness that’s bought me to a sensible age in life. Counter steering again is another skill passed me by, I try but it just feels like you’re trying too hard. I hardly ever ride on the dirt now so maybe I might have to book in for another two day course in Wales - even if it’s to improve my one road skills…

I will have to give this a try. I trail brake with the rear only, and use the throttle to hustle quickly around loose gravel. I’ve always been told to stay away from the front brake.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

That's interesting? Who told you that? The front brake is really the primary control for stopping on and off-road 🙂

@sarahdell4042

2 жыл бұрын

Brake Magazine Oh it’s used heavily on road, but was told to be very gingerly with it off road.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

@@sarahdell4042 If it helps I did a video a few years ago on braking using the front brake 🙂

Excellent video. What’s your advice regarding tyre pressure on gravel vs sealed roads? I’d expect approx 4-5 decrease in PSI from road tyre air pressure would enhance grip; what are your thoughts?

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

It entirely depends on the tyre and the weight of the bike. Some tyres work well around 20 psi and some work well at road pressures. The Karoo 3 is awful when you drop the pressure but the TKC 80 improves massively.

@mrpknight482

2 жыл бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine I'd always 'deflated' when going off road, KTM 950 - 690, then had a chat with a certain Mr S Pavey who advised that modern tyre on big adventures ( now have a 790) should not be. then i did something strange and read the manual, normally, keep the pressures normal, in extreme deflate to 28psi. just done 3 days on the borderlands TET at 34psi, felt great.

Nice vid - Generally, the same physics are at work on the road, and I trail brake there. I'm definitely going to practice doing this off-road too (need to practice using the rear, which I usually avoid). I did an advanced riding course on the weekend and when the instructor asked me why I was braking into the corner I explained - pretty much what you've said here. He looked at me like I'd grown another head. We discussed it for a while longer, whilst I kept trying to help him understand the physics of trail braking. In the end, he said it wasn't the system they were teaching and insinuated I should not ever brake in the corner, implying heavily that it was a dangerous and pointless thing to do. I'm a bit surprised an instructor didn't really understand the process. Glad my thoughts on the subject have been confirmed here.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

What you've come across is pretty common in road instructional teaching.

@Unfunny_Username_389

2 жыл бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine Indeed, it's ubiquitous. Why? Because Police Roadcraft - and more specifically the IPSGA system - have emphasised this for decades (half a century?). Iirc the theory (or the physics, if you prefer) is that if the rider has completed the requisite braking prior to the corner, the chassis and suspension are not dealing with extra forces being introduced whilst in the corner - a situation that could unsettle the bike and lead to dangerous developments at a time when e.g. the tyre's contact-patch isn't optimal (due to lean). The counterargument is that, with trail-braking, said forces are not being introduced whilst in the corner as they've been established prior to corner entry - whatever forces exist are merely being maintained. All I would say is that, when riding on roads on contemporary sports bikes with incredible brakes, it doesn't take much (single!) finger pressure mid-corner for that front wheel to wash out. Personally, I think IPSGA has the edge for road-riding. Get everything done before any serious steering input, and maintain constant throttle through the corner.

@BrakeMagazine

2 жыл бұрын

@@Unfunny_Username_389 I totally agree with the ideas of 'safe' road riding techniques but the conversation is a lot more complex than that. Most of those courses or systems teach riders to engage in a system based approach, where riders follow a set of rules to ride safely and efficiently. It's a good idea in principle but it only gives you a set of rules with which to deal with the variables. One of the biggest advantages I see from off-road riding skills and learning to trail brake effectively is the capacity to deal with changes quickly in a safe and effective manner. You can't riding off-road well without having a great reaction to every variable. In the teaching I've done over the last ten years, the riders who are heavily ingrained with systems based approaches really struggle to adapt and change their riding. Effectively it's a conversation of, should you make riders safe by giving them a framework, or by teaching them to ride better technically. I think Ideally it would be both with solid education on why they work and when to employ different skills. What do you think?

@Unfunny_Username_389

2 жыл бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine I think any rider who treats Police Roadcraft and the IPSGA system as an inflexible, straightjacket approach to bike control has gone very wrong somewhere. Having understood IPSGA properly, the short answer to any question regarding e.g. road positioning, gear selection, braking etc. is always "it depends". Such factors are dependent on the information available to the rider. This will vary - and IPSGA provides ways to sort that information and act on it. Arguably the worst thing about it is the very fact that it's called a "system". More useful terms might be "method", "approach" or "process" - etc.

@Gismo3333

2 жыл бұрын

It's no point trying to learn somethings from people that are noobs them self. That instructor only know how to ride a bike in a open space with out traffic. I had a emergency-break mid corner, some weeks ago. If that be him. He would have wrecked his bike in the back of a dump truck, because he cant break in a corner. Or he swerved in to the other lane and had a front to front with another car or truck. And probably end up in a bag, like very many others that don't know how to use the breaks, anywhere. I also heard that there is a lot of instructors that are beginner riders, that have noting to teach to nobody. So no wonder there are a lot of motorcycle accidents. They have noobs, teaching noobs.

How do these techniques change when the gravel (usually pea-size) is consistently 1--3" deep because it is freshly applied? Same question when the grader has recently gone through and chewed up the hard-pack into 1-4" of loose dirt, stone, etc.? Have already been working on trail braking off-road to help on loose terrain going into tight downhill corners. Good tip!

@BrakeMagazine

8 ай бұрын

Pea gravel that deep is deadly. It kinda dependson the depth because it kinda turns to slippery sand 🤣

I've been lucky enough to have been brought up riding 80's and 90's bikes before electrickery gizmos appeared. With these bikes you have to pretty much trail brake to get round a corner sharpish. Except, it didn't have a name then, it was just instinct and knowing that with the brakes on, the front dips and it's more stable around a corner. Anyone remember Gpz 900's? Or even Gpz 1100 or CBx's? If you dont dip the front end a bit before entering a corner, you can hang off all you like and counter steer (another new term for an old technique) all you like, you will go wide! Great video and your dad is a hard as rocks on that bike!

@anxiousappliance

2 жыл бұрын

What does trailbraking have to do with a safety net? If you're doing it right, nothing activates.

Are you counter steering while going into the corners on gravel?