Hodaka didn't just save Hina; it's implied that the rains were kept at bay time and time again with dozens, maybe even hundreds of sacrifices over the years. By breaking the cycle, he also saved every sunshine girl that would have come after. And as bad as the flooding may have been for Tokyo, the people are still adapting, and life is moving on. Hodaka was always right in his decision, even if it was personally motivated; it is better to endure a painful change than sacrifice your morality, beliefs and relationships for short term gain. Both personally, and for society as a whole. The entire movie reminded me of the short story _The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas_ by Ursula K. Le Guin. You should give it a look.

@carlosanthony4972

4 жыл бұрын

This perspective completely ignores the fact that the flooding of Tokyo and the entire Japanese Coastline would absolutely result in more deaths then if they had just continue to sacrifice Sunshine Girls. The only moral argument in favor of his decision is that the lives of people you care about are more important than the lives of people you don't.

@Antidragon-nl7by

4 жыл бұрын

@@carlosanthony4972 My perception was that the flooding didn't just happen overnight. 1. It took three years for the water level to reach as high as it did. 2. Appartments near to the water line were still in use, and it didn't look like the residents were leaving any time soon. 3. Office workers were still going about their daily business, the same as normal (if Keisuke's workplace is any indication). 4. The situation isn't so dire that people can't afford to spoil their pets (Rain the cat appears to be living like royalty, rather than a stray) . 5. There is still ferries and traffic flowing into and out of the city, suggesting that it's still a profitable and industrious location. 6. With modern transportation and technology, the displaced residents still have the option to move further inland or emigrate in large numbers. Granted, all this is implied rather than explicitly stated, so I guess we can only infer.

@carlosanthony4972

4 жыл бұрын

@@Antidragon-nl7by 1. Even if it took the city 3 years to flood to the point that skyscrapers were being engulfed just in the time frame of the movie we saw the flooding of subway and water what deep on street level most tsunamis and hurricane leave about as much water on the ground as what we saw when the rain stopped briefly compare that to any real-world City that has had similar levels of flooding happened and you will see that the death toll is at least in the double digits not to mention the displacement which would have surely have killed dozens of more people once again you can look at any example of this happening in the real world and compare 2-6. All your other points are irrelevant seeing as people will live in much worse conditions than a flooded city and still survive and thrive not to mention that all your point are from three years after the initial flooding people have had time to adapt to the situation There's no way to spin it to make it seem as if he saved more people than he killed.

@Antidragon-nl7by

4 жыл бұрын

@@carlosanthony4972 Regarding the flooding seen when the rain stopped briefly; I belive the intense weather prior to Hina's sacrifice was the "lash-back" for the good weather she brought (the bubble of water that drenched those two kids was the rain that would have fallen in Hina hadn't prevented it). Once Hina stopped messing around with the weather, I belive it returned to the same condition it was in before she found her powers; relentless downpour, but nowhere near as intense. That said, it was never explicitly stated how fast the water rose, so neither of us can say for certain. Regarding the calculus of death; the absolute certainty of harm is a very different thing than the abstract possibility of harm. It was a known fact that Hina would die if nothing was done, but the potential death caused by displacement was neither certain nor immediate. Likely or not, it isn't set in stone. Still, I can respect your outlook; hardship isn't something to be taken lightly, especially if it's avoidable (even through despicable means).

@carlosanthony4972

4 жыл бұрын

​@@Antidragon-nl7by Just looking at the amount of flooding that we see in the city before the 3 year time skip and comparing that to any other major city that has had similar levels of flooding over a similar length of time is enough to get a death toll in the double digits. If the choice was not explicitly between the life of his waifu and the life of others then what point is the movie trying to make? Does the movie stop at being an analogy for how you should not lower your quality of life to prevent global warming?

Homura did nothing wrong yes but I wish she hadn't been as unhinged as she was by the end of the movie. The girl is broken, self-loathing and traumatized and I don't for how much longer she will be able to maintain her sanity. She calls herself the literal demon for christ's sake. Her dream world is prone to fail and she knows that.

@bardfall9555

2 жыл бұрын

She just wanted to give Madoka a normal life she deserve. She said she will destory the 'world' after all wriaths die. So i bet wraiths might be the accumilated despair that madoka burderns herself with.

@CarlosFlores-jk7bp

2 жыл бұрын

@@bardfall9555 thats a good observation.....

@hooman9554

2 жыл бұрын

Well she sorta did turn into a demon. Her and Madoka’s wishes contradict earth other (Homura can’t protect Madoka if she’s a god, and Madoka has to be a god to help magical girls), which basically means thst for Homura to fulfill her wish she had toongsin equal power as Madoka. This probably makes no sense, I ’m rlly bad at explaining

The issue with the trolley problem is that you are given zero context about who each of the people are on either track. They are literally just numbers. I think, in the absence of context, either due to the lack of detail in the question, or if they are all strangers to you / you don't have time in the moment to determine their identities, the only choice to make is the utilitarian one. Only once context is given about the people who's fates you're deciding can a more nuanced decision be made.

@Kamimashita

4 жыл бұрын

I think in a perfect world, you'd have the capability to let the people on the tracks make the choice. However, context in this case isn't as important to me since I think the act of choosing to kill someone potentially against their will is troubling. To me, it doesn't matter if they're like, 90 years old or a criminal or whatever, their blood is on your hands while I don't think the 5 are (you didn't cause the train to go wild after all).

@SupLuiKir

4 жыл бұрын

@@Kamimashita Inaction is a choice too. The very fact that you were capable of choosing puts blood on your hand either way. In the absence of the ability to make an informed choice, the best option is the utilitarian. On the other hand, if you know who the one guy is, and he's someone important for the future of the human race, such as Elon Musk, but the others are still unknown, then save Elon, the others are probably just railroad workers or some other such mooks. Even if you are wrong, it still wasn't worth risking Elon on that chance.

@rrakkuu

4 жыл бұрын

· 0xFFF1 Inaction is a choice yes, but the idea is that by pulling the lever, you interfere with what’s supposed to happen and thus are responsible for the death, whereas if you don’t, you simply let things be the way they are. After all, the trolley that’s running rampage is not your fault. I don’t think choosing inaction holds the same weight as pulling the lever.

@canti7951

4 жыл бұрын

Still kinda weird to put different values on humans. Obviously not everyone is valuable for you but everyone is valuable for another person. It's still a dilemma even when given context. I feel like the choice that is line with your belief is the right one. Even though no one really gets hurt for sure in the ending of the movie, it still doesn't feel resolved. It makes sense for the characters to do this but it feels incomplete. There wasn't a big decision-making moment apart from Hodaka giving a cheesy pick-up line.

I agree. Even though I understand the opposing views on the morality of both films, this video speaks to me very much. Because I've always looked at stories where an ultimate sacrifice is made for the greater good with mixed feelings. If it's the character's personal decision, I can respect it. But sometimes it's not the characters decision at all. The decision to sacrifice the few to save the many was completely out of their hands, made by someone else. Usually someone with more power over society. And that's always made me feel very unsettled. Because while it is a sound decision pragmatically, it's completely inhumane! Nobody deserves to be treated like their life is worth less than anyone else's. Even if that anyone else is literally EVERYONE else. But while it makes me much more uncomfortable when it's the unwilling or unwitting person treated like a necessary sacrifice, it still feels a little wrong even when the person came up with the idea to sacrifice themselves on their own. I said before that I could respect that decision, and that's still true. But it still feels like the decision is always influenced by societal pressure, or a lack of self worth that is rewarded and praised by the other characters. And any character that treats the sacrifice as senseless is treated like they were selfish for valuing this person's life over everyone else. It is selfish, but it's also understandable. I get that these are very hard decisions that nobody ever wants to have to make. But I can't help but despise the "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" belief for the reasons I've stated. And that's also why I've always hated the Trolley Problem, and always refused to answer it whenever one of my friends who took introductory psychology pressured me to answer. The fact that they were just taught it, but self-indulgently asked it to everyone they knew(while judging anyone who answered smugly, and insistently told me not answering is not an option as if they were a child), didn't help. But anyways, great video as always!

Did it not occur to you that Hodaka came from a family that saw him as property while Hina saw him as a human being? It’s the same with Selena Quintanilla and Chris Perez, he wanted to be with the person that cared for him the most, that saw the real him on the inside.

You could also argue that our inactions are as much choices as actions. By choosing not to make a decision you have made the choice that your passive observation, your conscience, is worth more than the lives of those five people. You're not saving anyone's life through your inaction, you're just sparing yourself the weight of the consequence by saying it's not my right to make that choice. Lives are not mathmatical, no and indeed, choosing whether to do so or not there is no right answer. But there is a wrong one I'd argue and that would be to simply wash your hands of it. To claim it wasn't your call to make and clean your hands. To forget that through your inaction there is blood on your hands and death on your conscience as much as if you'd actively taken action. Those five people still died through your decision not to act and your hands are still soiled all the same. You have, action or inaction, made a decision as to the weight of their lives. And you decided that they weighed less than making the difficult decision you're faced with.

@Kamimashita

4 жыл бұрын

I think when you make this sort of argument, you muddy the waters enough that it's hard to compensate for. For example, there's a common mix-up to the Trolley Problem known as the Drowning Child. You can do the experiment here (www.philosophyexperiments.com/singer/Default.aspx), but I'll outline it real quickly. Say there's a drowning child, you see them, and it wouldn't cost you to save them. You would say you have an obligation to save them right? Now, say there's a child dying of sickness in poverty in a third world country. They would vastly benefit from you sending $100 to them, it's guaranteed to go to them, and it will not cause you undue hardship. Are you morally obligated to send the money? By saying that the decision to not make a decision results in you being responsible for the deaths of 5 people, you are leaning towards supporting being responsible for almost all of the suffering in the world that you could make an impact on. Now it's entirely possible that you believe that, but I find it really interesting how there's many complications and nuances to this experiment. This is besides the kind of "pure" philosophical argument, most people placed into this position don't pull the lever, probably not out of hard thinking or philosophy, but due to fear. And many people that would pull the lever, end up not sacrificing a person by pushing them on the tracks instead. They're interesting nuances. Oh, this is a nice one as well: www.philosophyexperiments.com/moralityplay/Default2.aspx

@Antidragon-nl7by

4 жыл бұрын

@@Kamimashita I like how you don't try to force a "right" or a "wrong" in this discussion; just provide the nuances and complexity of a situation and then step back and let people make their own conclusions. More often we are told how to think, act, and feel about the issues and dilemmas we face.

Finding intertextuality between two seemingly unrelated works to make sense of both is brilliant. I love seeing everyone's myriad interpretations of Rebellion most of all and you explained your point of view in a creative way I've never seen before.

BEST COMPARISON EVER FOR TWO OF MY ONLY 9/10 FILMS, LET’S GO KAMI

@bentosekai

4 жыл бұрын

MASSIVE W

I don't think the movie properly showed the consequences of Tokyo flooding. Realistically, there would be a lot of deaths. Economic devastation. A lot more complex than some people having to move

@loveawayfromreality6453

4 жыл бұрын

Youre not being human kid

@armalite1287

3 жыл бұрын

we complain about what happens to us and we curse whoever or whatever caused a dilemma to us but at the end of the day, humans can fight whatever catastrophe they see. It's not as if Japan hasnt seen worse. If you truly look into Hodoka's decision, you can say that you would have done the latter. However, if you really are faced with a decision with the same circumstances. Is anyone really going to deny saving their "Sunshine Girl"? After all, Hodoka found happiness with Hina. If you were given something that would provide you joy and happiness, would you really let society take it away from you? Its a hard decision to truly say no because, in some way, you would feel regret. The only thing we can hope for is that Happiness comes to us in a way that we dont have to choose between it and outside factors.

Homura was based as fuck, I was so unsatisfied with the end of the madoka anime bc her just becoming a god that may as well be dead is just terrible for homura. I wish they didnt make her into a villain while getting her back, but with the new movie coming out I'm really hoping for an ending where a middle ground is met so that they can just actually be happy together w/o one being basically dead or one being a villain. Also this video proper sold me on weathering with you now I wanna watch it

@mysticmon

Жыл бұрын

honestly i think calling her a villain is simplifying it way too much, theres a great video that i think explains a lot about homura though its a little long, its called "Beyond Good and Evil" - Encomium of Homura (on Nietzsche, Camus, and love) and i totally recommend it if youre a pmmm fan!

I'm totally for being completely selfish but I hate how the hand wave the consequences of his decision you never hear about the hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who died his decision directly or indirectly even goes out of his way to downplay his responsibilities in the flooding of Tokyo the film is far too early to ever explore any meaningful ideas about selfishness.

@Kamimashita

4 жыл бұрын

Shinkai did mention that he would have to figure out how to incorporate the consequences of this movie into his others, so maybe we'll see in the future!

@DuskKaiser

4 жыл бұрын

Honestly, while they did ignore what could have happened if to a lot of people, it does not downplay Hodoka's responsibility. The adult around him try to help him feel better by saying you didn't cause this or that it used to be like this but when he sees hina, Hodoka himself accepts that they did cause this and he is fine with it because Hina is alive

@carlosanthony4972

4 жыл бұрын

@@DuskKaiser without acknowledgement of the tragedy caused by his decision the decision becomes meaningless there are no negative consequences shown in the film's for his decision besides the time that they have to spend apart if that's the case then what decision is he actually making and what responsibilities does he have to come to terms with

@loveawayfromreality6453

4 жыл бұрын

Were humans its natural bro we all die, see ,okay , peace

@hellouniverse5451

4 жыл бұрын

The flooding was gradual not one massive tide but just endless rain it even showed you in the movie the same old woman who moved after her house flooded I doubt that many if any died with the amount of emergency workers in a CAPITAL CITY also tsunamis are pretty common in Japan compared to the rest of the world t was mostly just people had to move and adapt which is not rare it's what humans do

amazing video. finished both series and this really gave me another perspective on the interests and sacrifices of the characters

Excellent analysis, very enjoyable!

Good video as always. I never thought TnK and PMM for having simillar direction on the characters. Btw for the train, I'd choose not to change the route. Guess it's the same for Hodoka huh?

Makoto Shinkai is telling us what love can do to a person even if its sacrificing a whole city (•__•)

@loveawayfromreality6453

4 жыл бұрын

Teaches us were humans not perfect .

I love all of these speeches in the comments. Lol

@Kamimashita

4 жыл бұрын

They're what I live for!

@tryful5380

4 жыл бұрын

Kamimashita Haha

@maartenboy37

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kamimashita same

awesome video!

@dynastystar5515

4 жыл бұрын

"those who are utilitarianists argue by switching the tracks, you maximize the sum total happiness in the world. but by doing so, you take the fate of a single person into your own hands." See, the problem that I have with that line of reasoning is that the fate of all 6 people were already put into your own hands. On top of that, making the active decision to NOT change the tracks is as much of a decision as deciding to switch them.

Really good video

💖💖💖 you man is one of the best,nice and continue your great contents .

Stop it, get some help

Hold on, Weathering With You needed sacrifice just to handle a little rain? As someone living in a literal rain forest, a little rain never hurt anyone. Just put on a jacket.

@raseruuu3742

3 жыл бұрын

in the movie the rain was tooo much

Doesn't this selfishness cause climate change to occur in the first place? Everyone sacrifices the environment and no one sacrifices their own time, money or effort to save the environment. Isn't this the worst outcome that will lead to the end of humanity?

Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones. But you still have to choose.

This video has more likes meaning more people are being human ,thanks

How about Joel from TLoU?

it's said in the movie that this has been going on for 800 years, the rain is just not going to stop with just a single sacrifice, in the end earth is still doomed for eternity

You make good points & I love this video. But, the symbolism with Homura is demonic. Which I personally think is the real problem. If they hadn't gone with that particular theme at the end it might not have made Homera feel quite as Effed up.

In my opinion, Horika and Homura’s choices were entirely unethical. Sure you can’t mathematically determine the worth of someone’s life. However Madoka and Hina made conscious choices for themselves. The argument that it was all just factors out of there control is sort of stupid to me. Considering we humans are built with biases by our genes and environments which are factors mostly out of our control to begin with. All of which pre-determine most of our attitudes so yes “factors out of our control influence us more then we know” is a apart of life and our humanity. “Hina and Madoka weren’t free in there choices” are stated by characters who actively are out to prevent Hina and Madoka’s own choices because “free will” displays there hypocrisy. Even if it was just kicking a can down the road, whose to say peoples lives weren’t changed or saved because of those sacrifices. Sometimes people you love do things you don’t want to have to live with. Yet depriving them of there free will under the proclamation of free will itself is worse then “prolonging the inevitable”.

@godalseif

4 жыл бұрын

I haven't seen madoka magica but ultimately in the case of weathering with you hinas personal decision could be seen as unethical in itself, removing the consequences of people's actions will only lead them to making the same mistakes in the future and causing more problems, and of course we draw the line of free will at the point were your decision causes harm to others. After all we know that the weather patterns in the movie are due to humanities impact on the world and each time you kick the can down the road it gets worse and worse, causing more and more suffering for others, but making people live with the concequinces of their actions allows them the learn and change so that the overall suffering in the end is less. Thus hinas decision was the selfish one, choosing to help a few people now at the expense of more people down the line, it is acceptable to prevent someone from taking an action they choose if that action will hurt others because free will has its limits.

@violetraven8323

4 жыл бұрын

godAlseif, those are fair reasons for disagreeing with me- yet I still stand by my opinion. That Homura and Hurika should have allowed there loved ones to make there own call. Even if they don’t agree or like it.

@godalseif

4 жыл бұрын

@@violetraven8323 that's fine. though would you allow your loved one to murder someone in the name of free will?

@loveawayfromreality6453

4 жыл бұрын

@@violetraven8323 hey kid from 3 months ago try to be more human okay ,see we all die its just how we live life okay ?

Weathering with you is indeed beautiful

I have yet to watch this movie....😕😓 Is it better to listen to it in subbed or its dubbed counterpart?

@Kamimashita

4 жыл бұрын

They're both really good! I watched it subbed but I've seen a lot of the dub and I have no complaints.

@itsblitz4437

4 жыл бұрын

@@Kamimashita alright. Thanks for your input.

Hodaka did nothing wrong if you can accept his perspective, but Homura did do wrong because she is not truly following her desires, constantly trying to keep herself and her friends controlled and weary of the situation changing, she is kind off pretentious

@sakuraplease5246

3 жыл бұрын

She did it all to save madoka.

I thought this movie was very mid and overhyped I still do but this video made me see it in a new light 😼

I had to wait more than 2 months to watch this video (damn you covid19, they (understandably) closed the cinema). Also I find it a bit bananas that Hidaka doomed tokyo. Its a bit refreshing his selfishness (no judgment here) and I support his decision. She doesn't owe the world her life. Although I do wonder what this movie's stance in climate change is. The grandman is chill, about the change and we adapt, but I don't know what to think about this from that point of view

@loveawayfromreality6453

4 жыл бұрын

His right hodaka did nothing wrong really

As long they together i dont mind

fuck the world, i would do the same if i loved someone that much too!

I am totally okay with the selfish decision itself but I don't like it that hodaka didn't face any consequences actually it is hina who had to see her town suffer because of the rain while hodaka didn't see any of this and didn't get any consequences. Also about the gun thing why did hodaka even take that gun back . Also we don't get any backstory for hodaka we actually know nothing about him . I don't know about homura but I think she has kind of backstory but hodaka doesn't.

Wait a minute!Not all know or believe that Homura/Rogelyn is not real or straight girl,that's a bisexual Hodaka/Rogelio Arcilla,Jr.,not always showing or coming out as a boy,sometimes dressing as a girl.His love interest is the real girl Madoka/Angela Carlson also liked by Mami/Cynthia Malonzo who's also bisexual.

This does not excuse Homura gaslighting and manipulating her "friends", and Hodaka is a murderer.

@lloydasplund4187

4 жыл бұрын

What do you mean by murderer (I may not have paid attention to the movie so I may have forgotten)

@theMoporter

4 жыл бұрын

@@lloydasplund4187 His choice definitely killed people. A lot of people. Flooding tends to do that.

@Rimizu

4 жыл бұрын

@@theMoporter i don't think that makes him a murderer, when ur given a choice to kill one or the other. It's literally either u kill ur mum or the part of the city filled with people u dont even know. No matter what u choose, someone dies does that make u a murderer for having no choice beacuse the world pushed you to do it? So must Hina sacrifice herself for the world? the ans is no, what has the world done for her and what justifies Hina sacrificing herself for it. Nothing really, i tell you this, would u honestly be able to go up to ur mum and tell her "if i could kill u to save alot of ppl in this city, i would"? if you can then you'll just be someone be cares more about the world than an one person you love(be it ur friends or family) calling Hodaka a murderer is a fallacy for he had no choice in the first place. This is not like a choice of choosing himself over the city and its potential hardships, he chose his loved one over the city

@theMoporter

4 жыл бұрын

@@Rimizu Well, my mum is abusive which makes that comparison null for me...but I've discussed this with my own boyfriend when talking about situations like this and we both agreed that saving a vast number of lives was more important. It would be very sad, definitely, but is our personal sadness worth any more than the millions of families who would be effected by flooding Tokyo? If you still don't know what I mean, try watching Parasite (the movie). WWY hits different after Parasite. If anyone committed mass homicide to save my life I would never, ever forgive them. I wouldn't be running back to them all kissy after a few years apart. I wouldn't even be able to look at them. The survivor's guilt would be unbearable. And my partner agrees. At least Rebellion understands that what Homura is horrible, unethical, immoral. It's gaslighting, being an abusive girlfriend, and that's that.

@Rimizu

4 жыл бұрын

theMoporter be that as it may, that just doesn’t qualify him to be a murderer when he has no choice

tbh I watched weathering with you just cuz the rain animation and the background art is absolutely beautiful. btw I don't really like romance in anime prefer shounen

I dont care if you guys die but ill always choose my girlfriend If i find one that is

@loveawayfromreality6453

4 жыл бұрын

Sad

You know I never thought Hodoka did anything wrong or right, I thought of it as he was in love, so instinctually he would have chosen to not care if Mother Nature went Perfect Chaos on Tokyo as long as he could be with Hina (yes I did force a Sonic Adventure reference in there cause the same thing happens at the end of the game). With that said, I never really thought about the movie in the way of the Train Dilemah Analogy. Even though I don't like this as much as Your Name (still a good movie), I may watch this a 3rd time with this analysis in mind.

Stagnation is a common theme in japanese culture nowadays and it reflects the current state of their society. To me it seems that the selfish action taken by Homura is more similar to Shinji's at the end of Eva 2.22 and their twisted worlds are the result of said actions. They both did it out of obsession, whilst Hodaka did it out of love.

@ldragon2515

2 жыл бұрын

I’d argue that Shinji saving Rei in 2.22 was more based on love than obsession. Heck, what he said to her as his reason for choosing her is pretty much the most heartwarming thing she could ever hear. It’s why 3.33 is such a letdown in my eyes. Rather than going for a more subtle approach and leave it open for the audience to interpret, it goes all in on it being negative, and that someone like Rei (who I identified a lot with in 2.22) is not worth any kind of chance at life or hope, lest you bring down others. Talk about a mean-spirited and downright cruel thing to say to someone with low self-worth; that you deserve to die lest you cause someone to suffer because of your existence. Thanks a lot Anno. No wonder you backtracked on that in FINAL. Though by then, it was too little too late in my eyes.

I hope it's not made on purpose, but the end of your video can easly be interpreted as if a person should not make sacrifices for the environnement because it's too late, not their fault, and the human race will adapt to climate change, so we don't need to care. I don't think you wanted to say that.

@nasuada4732

4 жыл бұрын

It sounded to me more like he was saying reverting the weather back to how it should be isn’t worth a person’s life, especially when the same problem will likely occur again because nobody else’s behaviour has changed to be more environmentally friendly or anything.

@Kamimashita

4 жыл бұрын

Completely didn't mean to imply that, if anything it's kind of the opposite. In the movie they don't actually implement solutions, they sacrifice countless weather maidens to keep putting off effecting real change. When I say humans adapting, I mean in the sense that we can be a very bright species, and that hopefully one day we'll wake up to the idea that we need to do something, now.

Ehh... While the two movies are similar One is mostly influenced by hormones while the other is actual love Also I dont think homura was trying to solve magical girl problem at all.