Coming from a UNI player, I think MD is fine, and actually notably weaker than CS as a reversal. The main reason is that MD does *not* completely freeze the game. I'm not sure what the exact count is, but it has a few frames of invul were the defender cannot act. If you did nothing, the defender is actually -2. If you meatied with an A normal you can whiff cancel it into shield, normals or specials. If you meatied with a deep jump in you can do literally anything. Throws are actually a great option in this situation, as they'll beat both shields and most moon skills. Not saying the defender doesn't have any good options, but the aggressor also has decent options, including simply MDing back. None of this is the case in UNI. CS completely freezes the screen, and only certain specials are whiff cancealable. 90% of the time, if you meatied on someones CS, they had their pick of reversal options and there wasn't much you could do about it. In fact, Wagner and Eltnums 623Cs are 3f, so they can actually punish any safe jump after CS. Even if your character has no good reversals (like mine) there really isn't any downside to using it. Worst case scenario you get a free blue shield instead of just normal blocking. All that said, I understand that it's annoying that MD (and shield) is a constant concern. I kinda wish Lumina had something like GRD break and/or Vorpal strip in UNI.

@LordKnightfgc

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting, thank you. I'll explore it more.

@rolasmola9641

2 жыл бұрын

One interesting thing about MD not freezing the game completely is that there are some projectile safejump setups where MD will straight up cause the projectile to whiff (such as MD against Noel's djc air dash j.236a after an air throw). This actually lets them straight up get a punish afterwards as Noel is still in recovery frames from the j.236A.

I heard him say “if I played Uni more” and I was like “that makes sense”. Cause when I first played uni dealing with chain shift(uni moon drive) was hard. But like after a long time you realize yeah its strong af, but its similar to burst and you just have to learn to respect it when they have it.

@ApexGale

2 жыл бұрын

The difference is that CS in UNI has to be earned, though. Only one player has access to chain shift at any given point in the game. There's a very clear window of time when you need to be aware of it and when you don't have to worry about it as much. If you play incredibly well as an offensive player, there is a good chance that they just never win vorpal to even get access to CS. The defender is inherently at a disadvantage - sure, they can use shield instead of regular blocking to try and win back vorpal...but if they mess up they get GRD broken and they are 100% not going to win the next vorpal cycle or even have access to certain tools for a while. There's more nuance to CS, is what I'm saying. Just like how I don't think Moon Drive has various applications - I feel as though people are seriously sleeping on Moon Skills in this game.

@ITNoetic

2 жыл бұрын

@@ApexGale Moon Drive is like a fusion between Veil Off and Chain Shift, but it's attached to an EX meter battery that starts out fully charged. So it's hard to evaluate it just in the context of only some of its uses, because all of them come at an opportunity cost of the ability to use Moon Skills for a good while afterward.

@LordKnightfgc

2 жыл бұрын

I was just saying I would be better at reacting to the freeze if I played UNI. Only comparable thing I've experienced is say, BB overdrive, and the start up is an eternity compared to MD

@rolasmola9641

2 жыл бұрын

@@ITNoetic I think that 'a good while afterward' is shorter than most people make it out to be. You're basically just 1 successful shield away from being able to use your moon skills again, or 1 prolonged shield war away from having access to MD again.

I don't know if this was mentioned, but empowered moon drive skills aren't throw invincible, and they are a pretty hard counter to them, as throw will beat most moon skill options if they MD and you aren't doing anything in front of them. This counterplay can be beaten with throw tech and backdash among other options, but it at least expands that mind game beyond just "oh no I mashed into Moon Skill now I have to guess/react to the freeze"

I haven't even been using moon drive cause I'm stupid lmao

Important note that wasn't fully clear in the video is that moon drive makes all moon skills done for the duration have clash frames, not only after the flash. Combined with the fact that it lasts a pretty significant amount of time if no moon skills are used, it can make pressuring the person that activated pretty spooky for the better part of a round until it's over. It's also worth noting that the activated moon drive moon skills drain more meter for each clash effect that happens, effectively causing the mode to end sooner.

@hipsterroxas2626

2 жыл бұрын

Clashing makes it go away faster? That’s good to know! So maybe it’s worth it to force a clash then shield 🤔

@kenamada5451

2 жыл бұрын

@@hipsterroxas2626 Yea, if you pinwheel late with Akiha and someone moon drives and DP's. The pinwheel will clash with them for every tick and their moon drive is pretty much gone in 1-2 moves.

Moon Drive: *exists* LordKnight: And I took that personally.

I think my biggest issue is the small window makes it especially hard to distinguish between them shielding you or a clash and you have to instantly recognize and respond to that

Garuda impact

I’m hyped to see Lord Knight in tournaments to cheer him on

"Some people will just pick moon drive no matter what as a 'fuck you I just want to get back into it' sort of thing." There was no need to call me out like that.

Tysm for these informative vids, i watched them all and it’s really helped me get a handle on the game

All my homies love WARC.

Lord Jiyuna was talking about this pre release

I use moon drive early and tend to burn it all quickly so I can start rebuilding it. Usually end up with 2 activations per round. The clash frames are silly and shielding is the only real counter. Enjoy.

I like moon drive as a counterpart to unib chain shift/guilty gear rc. i don't like it as yet another defensive option. using moon drive to convert grabs or stray hits is fun. but the fact that you can whiff something and they say haha jk planned all along with moon drive is wild the fact that the best way to counter that is to counter activate your own just reminds me of a similar gimmick in golden fantasia. in golden fantastia you can activate meta world using stock points, each player can build up to 5. when a player activates meta world, they gain access to their character's special passive and a few specials exclusive to when they're in meta. the opposing player can then cancel out their meta by activating it themself. and you can keep doing it until the stocks are done. cool in theory, but if you watch high level footage of that game its almost always optimal to just force your opponent to drain their stocks down to their last. so you'd just have someone rush to hit 5 stocks before the other person could, then basically just back and forth. it kind of makes the rest of the gimmick pointless because the outcome ends up being the same every time

I think 50% to use MD is too much for how strong it's, maybe it should be 100% moon only, so it can make resource management harder

What do you think about counter Moon Drive? Is it possible in that aerial mixup situation?

If you can react to the sound of the clash or the animation, can we do BC~8/7D? If it was a shield you'll self eject, and if it was a moon skill clash, you'll either shield it or jump over it (for low ones like Shiki's 4BC). For meterless, we could try delay tap shield after the clash or shield. If you hit a shield you beat A follow-up, and get normal hit by B follow-up. If it was a moon skill clash, you will shield subsequent hits. Fairly strict timing to cover both. Just a thought. I haven't tested versus all of the moon skills and I'm not sure if it's realistic to do on reaction.

@LordKnightfgc

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I have to train myself to moon drive back to confirm situation. Another thing I was thinking was maybe do 5aa to clash multiple times to give me more time to go into jump shield.

@shiwanmi

2 жыл бұрын

Oh! That sounds great. I was trying to figure out how I could giveyself more time/ bake that into other option selects. Plus more clashes reduces the amount of time they have MD right? I'm loving this game so far.

From what I’ve seen and tested charged multi hitting normals tend to go through the clash frames of moon..one for example is akiha 5[C]

i use moon drive like a roman cancel and i find it strangely effective, for example on shiki i will end a combo with a j.236 c and then when the foot kicks them down i use MD and continue comboing. it might not be optimal but it catches people off guard and i tend to get sick clips out of it lmao

To me moon meter is like V meter from sfv, that works in favor of both players and not as a bs comeback mechanic.

@wdililn

2 жыл бұрын

It kinda is though for the same reason the V system is flawed: the butter isn’t spread evenly across the loaf. In Lumina’s case, there is some crazy variation between how strong characters’ moon skills are, just like how V trigger is in SFV. A significant reason why some characters are considered very strong right now is because of their moon skills. It’s hard to argue that Lumina isn’t centralized around the Moon system like SFV is around the V system too.

Does pressing the dash macro button (a+b) activate forward moving dash and if you press a + dash macro does jab come out or dash?

Hey man, your mic is a little hot on this one and was popping a bit, especially at the start of the video. Might want 2 keep an eye on the levels for the next one. Keep up the great work, I'm learning a lot!

Love using moon skill to escape ill use all my air options then moon drive to get another jump or dash

Im not a pro but i like the craziness of moon drive it could be nerfed alittle but making it once a round which ive heard somee people say doesnt sound good its a lame and lazy fix maybe make it so it has a window where it can be pinished (outside of combos) if baited and only change to shield is make the crazy follow ups cost more but leave the basic launcher the same and also make mids not be shielded by low shield.

Can someone explain tech trap? I have been trying for hours, i'm only able to punish forward tech both with/without cross up. But back and vertical tech, they just block 100% of the time. Is it a bug?

@xbread31

2 жыл бұрын

I think they changed it in this game where you can only catch forward tech since you are giving up ground if you decide to use back or neutral tech, but in return it's safer. I only heard this from a recent Melty tournament (Lunatic Perilune #5) by one of the commentators. This information could be wrong, but at the moment it's not a bug. Edit: If you KZread "Lunatic Perilune #5: Melty Blood Type Lumina Top 16 to Top 8", MakotoFox talks about it at 20:05.

@Al-ng2wn

2 жыл бұрын

@@xbread31 Sigh, with all those wakeup moon drives, i thought i could use some setup to trap those. Thanks for the source.

i play Hisui and Kohaku and neither of them have true invincible reversals aside from 236B+C. Moon Drive Moon Spoon on Hisui is absolute godsend for stealing a turn. Although it's minus on block you can do Moon Spoon twice in a row to catch mash on the first one. I find it really fun and unique as a reversal option and i like it a lot. i havent had too much trouble dealing with people moon driving on wakeup since i just respect it as a wakeup option like it's a reversal dp and let my opponent take the turn they just spent resources to have. I do find clashing to be kind of annoying since it's not clear what my options are but i usually try to mash 2A and hope for the best since doing nothing after a clash just gets you hit. Hisui Moon spoon is just the most wack clashing move in the game tho so im a system mechanic abuser lmao.

@luigiwiiUU

2 жыл бұрын

system mechanic abuse is something every modern fighting game has to acknowledge eventually. Wouldnt surprise me if Moon got touched later on

@sighyawn6378

2 жыл бұрын

@@luigiwiiUU it's definitely not a perfect system. shield mechanics arent perfect either. but in the current state of the game i quite enjoy the system mechanics in type lumina. especially compared to other modern fighting game system mechanics.

Quite a few JP players saying the same thing. How'd you feel if it was only once per match?

@morbiuslikeslean4201

2 жыл бұрын

How about u can only use it only once ur moon abt is full and not only 50%…once per match wouldn’t be very good and would probably kill the mechanic

Had to watch it twice but I understand now what you are talking about

I dont even play this game and never will, but I do enjoy your explanations on fighting game mechanics lol

But isn’t the shown situations toward the end of the second half all reactable, such that the player can just hold their Moon Drive? Yes, you get the mix and it’s safe from Moon Drive but I don’t think it really denies them the Drive itself.

What I have a problem with so far is accidentally getting the auto combo, it should just be put on A or 6A, completely agree that crouch shield shouldn't beat mids it's so annyoing and where is spot dodge? Also being used to kohaku from previous melty I don't see why 2B and 5C automatically do their 2nd hit and it sucks not being able to do 6C 236A 236B anymore.

@LordKnightfgc

2 жыл бұрын

Funny thing is since I played H Koha I was fine with 2b and 5c lol

@memezabelle

2 жыл бұрын

man i really wish i knew what the numbers meant

@isaiahraumad

2 жыл бұрын

@@memezabelle every number is a direction 5 being neutral 2 being down and so on

I've been enjoying MD and it's various applications it's a really interesting mechanic that can diversify play and give characters some options they don't really have, Examples that comes to mind are Vlov's abysmally slow buttons and lack of defensive options, Miyako extending pressure, the obviously strong clash frame bullying and additional mobility Seems like a healthy mechanic along with Shield, that both take getting used to since they have such large implementations on how the match plays through TL;DR I like the shield and MD mechanics i think they only add to the game

@QuasiGame0

2 жыл бұрын

@@pizzepeli I've played over 100 matches this week + labbing, I wake up MD, my sparing partner does so with Vlov as a defensive option, I never said anything about Vlov being bad, his 5A is 7f and jis fastest button 2A is 6f so that once he does have to play defense he has one of the harder inability to 'mash out' kinda like Faust or Millia in GGST, it's meant to be a character weakness, I honestly like that essentially all of MBTL mechanics seem to be designed around player expressive or at least flexibility to some extent ex Reverse Beat(variable strings), Shield Wars(you don't have to engage, or you can RPS), Moon Drive (defense/offense/mobility/clash/Invul), Heat (health and meter/get off me/Blood Heat changing Shield) TL;DR 100+ matches (obv not LKs amount) MBTL mechanics seem flexible/expressive as a whole, Never called Vlov bad just admitting a weakness, my sparring partner mains Vlov and would agree

@QuasiGame0

2 жыл бұрын

@@pizzepeli I'm also by no means an FGC pro, but I am making an attempt to improve as much as possible, I try to accept and learn about the tools accessible through the system mechanics and what characters individually are given or have access to

@QuasiGame0

2 жыл бұрын

@@pizzepeli seems to encourage various playstyles, if you meaty all the time they can call you out with MD and Punish when they have that resource, else they have to play the old fashioned guessing game and you get to block unblockables with the ability to call them out, it's not a resource that's always available, and not all characters have an invincible Reversal that's why I mentioned Vlov, if you don't always go ham on your opponent you can Shield their wake up MD into MS for a guaranteed punish and even catch MD strike if they think you were going to throw, not everybody has to agree with my thoughts but I like that MBTL has so many options for both players to really feel like they are engaging all the time, none of the my turn your turn, it's often a constant tug of war

@QuasiGame0

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to anyone that reads my entire novel in the comments 😅

this is defiantly not talked about as much as shield but it is pretty crazy too kzread.info/dash/bejne/o2ydz6qfmpDemZc.html moon gauge fills up super fast so moon drive ends up being something that you have to look for way more then you think

I feel like moondrive slowdown is very long, interesting

Bro lord knight gives us PHDS in these games lmao 😭

don't show jiyuna this

One thing that was neglected to mention. If you clash against a moonskill, the first hit will pause the game much like a Guard does and you can immediately cancel into guard if you react fast enough to punish the rest of their moon skill. This is galaxy brain reactions and I dont expect everyone to do it but its definitely OS'able.

I'd like if it wasn't always invincible when you used it so it wasn't always a true reversal. Maybe at 75% and 100%

@photonbreak9158

2 жыл бұрын

adding in random chance would make it an even worse mechanic

@tpaphantom9405

2 жыл бұрын

@@photonbreak9158 What?

@photonbreak9158

2 жыл бұрын

@@tpaphantom9405 One important aspect of fighting games is knowing how certain moves with certain abilities interact with each other in certain situations. Throwing random chance into a situation completely undermines that knowledge that people try to gain

@EnalaprilEgon

2 жыл бұрын

@@photonbreak9158 I think he meant 75% or 100% of moon gauge at the time of activation rather than a random chance

@photonbreak9158

2 жыл бұрын

@@EnalaprilEgon My bad, sorry

I want to play this game to get a better feel of it but the implementation of this moon drive thing feels sloppy and too distracting while I play.

I don't think I've seen people use moondrive as a reversal ever. I've seen plenty of cancels to it, but I can't think of a case where opponent defensively mding

@ividboy7616

2 жыл бұрын

Wait what game have you been playing, all people do to me is wakeup moon drive into ignorant armored moon skill lately

@skibuster00

2 жыл бұрын

@@ividboy7616 he's just not playing the same game as everyone else, ignore him man

@thegoodtypeofrealism9254

2 жыл бұрын

I also haven't seen it used often, I've only seen like one or two people do it.

@TheCosmicUprise

2 жыл бұрын

When people say this, and they do often, i assume they themselves don't wakeup md because the (rare) matches I have where the opponent doesn't wakeup md, after I start doing it, they do too

@boredomkiller99

2 жыл бұрын

I mean I get wake up moon drive so I proceed to just grab them.

At least it ain't Garuda

I hate moon drive.

imo Drive should cost 100%, every defensive mechanic in this game has at least a risk involved in using it, except Moon Drive. So nerfing it to cost ALL of the gauge is fair enough for how powerful it is (even tho nerfing it would nerf my ass cause Im carried by this mechanic LOL)

JIYUNA WAS RIGHT

Before I even watch the video if it's not shield it's cap

@bobjones5939

2 жыл бұрын

The shield video came out yesterday friend

@davidburke4101

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobjones5939 I know that, im saying it should be the least favorite mechanic as well

@luigiwiiUU

2 жыл бұрын

shield is annoying but it's fine cause at least its a risk. Moon Drive is no risk

@morbiuslikeslean4201

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidburke4101 not really, if u just do the moon option you get out for basically free