Thank-you to Emily for her wonderful video! Let us know what you think about the Earth-based versus Moon-based space elevator below, and how emerging space technologies should be dealt with by the law in the world of tech billionaires and competing militaries.

@cmdrcrimbo

4 жыл бұрын

You should definately give Elon Musk a call! Great work

@russell2449

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry, but I disagree - the idea isn't novel at all, since, as she mentioned, the idea of space elevators has existed for a very long time. AND Emily displayed an extremely poor grasp of other topics, including fear mongering that the the U.S. military might use such an invention, an IDIOTIC idea that smacks of conspiracy theory. If that were in any way probably, then we'd already be militarizing space if that were the case, but of course international treaties prevent them from doing so (not to mention sparking a space arms race between us, China and Russia, smh). And then there's her frankly asinine suggestion that Elon Musk might want to monopolize it for his own personal benefit, something that shows that she has no real knowledge about the man or his dedication towards a single goal, that of safeguarding the human race from extinction. So in the future, I'll make certain not to watch any more videos by this "space cadet", and if I see many more than I'll probably just unsubscribe. I can abide a certain amount of ignorance from the uninformed, but your channel is supposed to represent a source of factual, for the most part, information on such topics, and if you don't take that seriously, then why would anyone want to waste their time on it?

@robpayne1956

4 жыл бұрын

Ok while this sounds in theory a great idea and it could work even at the technology level we are at now. I have to wonder if you have taken the drag forces involved in bringing this into the 100k range from earth. Those drag forces would be acting on the earth end of the elevator would be immense and would generate a great deal of heat on the earth end of the elevator. Would that not become a problem over the long term as there is a constant heating effect on that free hanging cable ?? what would one be able to use in the cable to mitigate that heat and resulting thermal expansion of the cable ??

@dmeemd7787

4 жыл бұрын

This is awesome! REALLY cool to go over the ethics side

@GlassTopRX7

4 жыл бұрын

Here is the thing those with forethought and knowledge to pull this off wont even have seat a the table for decision making. It will be the Manhattan Project all over again where far less intelligent people make the decisions for all mankind.

"Space is upsettingly big." Douglas Adams approves this message.

@deanrichardson4712

3 жыл бұрын

@smileforthejudge1 I was thinking of making a picture of the. big bang cosmic microwave background with the words. Don't panic scattered within the background. I thought it would be quit humorous.

@NwoDispatcher

3 жыл бұрын

Thank odin that space is so vast. One day my white people will find liberation from the diversity tyrants.

The fact that you brought up the negative implications and environmental hazards that this could cause increases my respect for you guys 10 fold. Excellent job guys! You don't even see the so called well known Physicists like DeGrasse Tyson speaking so responsibly as they think that its their soul job to just push an agenda that supports their subject matter but with no care given to environmental and political degradation.

@claytonwade3570

6 ай бұрын

i have more concern for enviromental aspects than political, politics and space don't mix, keep politics on the ground where they belong

@claytonwade3570

6 ай бұрын

leae space for exporation and creativity and Innovation

Being a Cool Worlds student has to be amazing. Great video!

@CoolWorldsLab

4 жыл бұрын

That was quick!! Thanks for joining us as always!

This channel is so ridiculously fantastic. Emily and the whole of Cool Worlds Labs, thank you for this!

loved it. Highlight: "Space is upsettingly big" hilarious.. I also love the fact that near the end I heard Jeff Goldblum Jurassic Park statement In my head, and then you actually put it in the video. Awesome. Thank you for your concern and attention to detail to all aspects of the implications of your undertakings

@popokiobake

3 жыл бұрын

Space is only as big as one's perception.

I enjoy all of Emily's contributions but this one especially. We need people thinking about these things today.

I think it's a big enough project that it couldn't really sneak up on anyone. You build something like this once there's enough need for access to the lunar surface that it's more cost-effective versus just using rockets, like eventually deciding to build a bridge across a river versus using an occasional ferry. And it still really is quite a large project even if the materials to build it exist now.

Thank you, Emily. This was a treat. Your paper with Z.P. is a beautiful piece of work. I'm so happy to have found this channel. I hope to see you again!

Honestly this has to be one of my favorite episodes of this show. This brilliant young woman mathed together the foundation of what might be a revolutionary space exploration tech. Then she stopped and said "but folks, billionaires shouldn't build stuff like this with impunity for their own benefit, we have to proceed carefully when building these sorts of things." And that's awesome. I hope this episode's host has a long, fruitful, beautiful science career ahead of her because she clearly has the mind for it.

@AvyScottandFlower

4 жыл бұрын

White-knight much?

@artemis_smith

4 жыл бұрын

@@AvyScottandFlower ever occur to you that someone can make a positive remark without wanting something in exchange? I think this episode's host did a great job and was just trying to express it.

@artemis_smith

4 жыл бұрын

@@AvyScottandFlower motivating women to act like men and destroying the west sounds awesome! Where do I sign up?

@sammylooney4644

4 жыл бұрын

If billionaires building this upsets you, who else will? Disappointing she had to throw out the climate fad.

@artemis_smith

4 жыл бұрын

@@sammylooney4644 climate change isn't a fad, it's indisputable fact. And billionaires don't build or create anything, they take advantage of the people who do the real work.

It’s refreshing to observe a young person with scientific, current events and ethical intelligence.

I think the main problem you're not considering is the length of time it would take to crawl a cable from any point to the moon. Even if you catch it halfway, that's still over 100,000 miles you have to travel to reach the surface. If your elevator travels 100 miles per hour (which would be pretty crazy), it would take more than 40 days to reach the surface. So that means a habitat would have to be constructed. How about this as an alternative design...use the centrifugal force from the moon. Put a far shorter cable (say, 60 to 100 miles) on the far side with an anchor weight. A lunar spacecraft will rendezvous with the cable, and then make the comparatively easy descent to the surface. The moon is travelling in an arc around the Earth at a speed of about 2,100 miles per hour. Best part is that it could be installed completely via unmanned missions. You could then easily install additional cables for various locations on the far side. I haven't calculated how long the cable would need to be, nor how heavy the tether weight. But it addresses the engineering challenge and the logistical challenge of travel time.

Excellent! One of the first "Malcolm-ites" i've seen. "So quick to progress because we could we didn't stop and think if we should." There are many angles outside the scientific here & I am quite glad someone is finally discussing it in this manner. Gold star! Edit: haha! Commented before end of video!

wow, this girl is simultaneously optimistic in engineering. But incredibly Pessimistic about human kind.

@philipmcnulty4191

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think that's a bad thing. I think from what she has said that she was initially so enthused by the prospect of this project being technically achievable in the short term that the ethical concerns were not considered closely enough. Now that she's had time to reflect and reassess, she's proposing more controls and governance over this technology and the opportunities that it would open up. The TV series "Mars" illustrates similar concerns over the privatisation of space in its second season and I do feel that this will become an issue sooner than you imagine.

@wattfource

4 жыл бұрын

Calling someone optimistic or pessimistic puts you into a category too. Subjectiveness begets subjectiveness. I tend to agree with you though. She's clearly quite smart and has spent much more time thinking about this than us.

@gallamat

4 жыл бұрын

Optimistic in Engineering? Correct. Pessimistic about our species?? ...wrong. She's only REALISTIC Daniel. You should only take a little glimpse into our species history. She's based on FACTS, as ANY real good scientist.

@chrisclark7212

4 жыл бұрын

Its reight.

@Alex-lk7qy

4 жыл бұрын

You mean realistic 😉

What a fantastic video! Emily, thank you for your brilliant contributions, and most important, your heartfelt thoughts about the potential consequences-good and bad-of such a project. Stay safe, happy and healthy. :)

Two practical questions: How would the elevator actually climb the cable; power supply, energy needed, weight vs gravitational equasions, etc.? And what kind of material can withstand the weight of it's own mass for a length that long, let alone adding the weight of the elevator and its cargo at the extreem end? How much raw materials would be needed for such a cable and, surely it would need to manufactured at the gravitational center of distribution. These questions seem huge but In sure you have done the math. It would be great to have another video expanding on such things

In terms of megastructures that make you question the collective intelligence of humanity over why we haven't built them yet, I think of Isaac Arthur's Upward Bound series.

@rileyknox5034

4 жыл бұрын

Suck a great series and channel. I really love his eps on moon industries.

@dtgs4502

4 жыл бұрын

@@valinperal The space elevator is one of the least feasible options. There's nothing stopping us from making skyhooks or orbitals rings. Also, orbital rings are definitely cost effective. They can lift three times their own mass per day.

@bigsby6bender

4 жыл бұрын

valinperal The Earth-end of the elevator is in space, safe from hurricanes.

@Pimpmedown

4 жыл бұрын

@@valinperal you are completly missing automation.

@milobem4458

3 жыл бұрын

@@dtgs4502 Skyhook may be more feasible technically, but politically is even more crazy than the elevator. Can you imagine the world sitting quiet while USA or China puts these huge rotating devices in low Earth orbit?

Thank you Emily for your most insightful presentation. Well done! As a minor student of the terrestrial space elevator for 25 years now I’d never considered its advantages from the opposite direction. Of course if you’re worried about the moral implications there may be a technical analogy in the airplane. Consider its varied uses over history. Some great; some horrible. You could argue that it was responsible for starting and ending World War II (as America entered it anyway). In spite of that checkered past, and only with a more socially aware preamble to such enterprises, perhaps we should ask ourselves if our species and our planet are better off with or without the airplane. I may be entirely biased about this as an airline pilot, but if we can successfully negotiate avoiding the negatives, then the positives could yield entirely new perspectives for us as a species. Thanks again for your insights. I hadn’t thought of subscribing. But upon reflection I’ve decided to do so. Perhaps someday you’ll be a more luminary spokesperson on behalf of the better ways to go. Perhaps you can help us create a more desirable future, and be aware of the pitfalls.

@dismalthoughts

2 жыл бұрын

That's the case with many technologies. They're neither good nor bad, it's just how we use them. With luck, we'll never cross a line we can't come back from with technology. The biggest danger is if we don't even know we're crossing that line past the point of no return.

The same amount of material used to make a Space Elevator, can make a more robust Lunar Orbital Ring(mono-rail from a lunar pole reaching into lunar orbit). Actually, with an orbitally-locked moon, any Orbital-Rings could touch the surface in other locations too. Also, the structural limits required in Ring materials aren't extreem, like Space Elevators are. One type of Ring consists of Aluminum, using electro-magnetic drag on the Ring, to pull​ a cargo into orbit. That drag is compensated by introducing acceleration back into the Ring at the ground-station. Orbital-inertia will keep the Ring drawn tight. The Traction Tech used on a Ring is more involved than Elevators, but Humans are built to find solutions. Eventually, a series of shorter geo-stationary Elevators can be dropped from locations along the Orbital-Ring(stationary gravity-loads must be compensated with higher-velocity rotations of the Orbital-Ring, & use Mag-Lev Tech for vertical support by the Orbital-Ring). Eventually, the Ring would be upgraded to being fully enclosed by a stationary coaxial-sheath, so stationary objects could permenantly attach or even hang from the Ring. An L-1 Elevator will eventually be required though, especially to construct a Terra-Lunar-L4, L5, transport Depot & Emergency Solar-Transport Station. L2 could use another Lunar Elevator to an orbiting community & Science-Fleet. L4, L5, being stable orbits, could become industrial centers so debris doesn't easily escape, L4 for new fabrications & upgrades, L5 for Utilities(solar-power, solar-communications, etc.) Solar-Powered Anti-Matter production plants, can be strung in a Solar-Orbit that comes by earth every few years(unless Solar-Static-Charges can be harvested more economically. Note how rocky asteroids are Arc-Etched to create ionized-gases, which manifest as solar-wind static-collecting comet-tails.)

Emily, thank you for the amazing video. As far as "science educators" go, your presentation was better than most. Please continue to add to the channel, as you are much enjoyed. 😊

Really enjoy the Cool Worlds videos, and this one was very informative by working from the L1 point and teathering to the moon. Disappointed that you did not give Arthur C. Clark, the science fiction writer his dues for imagining an earth-teathered space elevator in his book The Fountains of Paradise, a great read by the way. Arthur leveraged off the idea initially theorized by Arthur Kantrowitz. Putting all that aside, creating a space elevator would be a fanominal achievement, though sadely something I will not see in my lifetime. Great work, keep dreaming, continue with creating the videos, thanks and regards.

@AvalosTokyo

21 күн бұрын

I think the point of this video was to avoid sensationalizing Sci Fi into real world consequences. As much I thought about the Sci Fi works before, it's odd to present them next to a peer-reviewed mathematical methodology when the fictional works have hardly anymore foundation than plot armor.

I'm still not clear on what your specific worries about this structure are. "It could be used for bad things" is quite vague and non-threatening in its own right. So many of our technologies, like GPS, are developed for military reasons but go on to have profound benefits to the whole of society. Yes, it would be better if the planet as a whole demilitarized, but I think it is wrong to conflate militarization of a technology with the inherent good/bad of that technology. The lunar elevator, or similar orbital structures, are fundamentally *good* things for the greater human civilization. Their potential *exploitation* by actors who seek to use them for narrow interests at the cost of others is a completely separate matter. *Anything* can be used as a weapon by someone determined enough to do so. But there is a huge difference between *designing* something intended to function as weapon, and designing some structure or device that could *potentially* be used as a weapon.

@shmu356

4 жыл бұрын

true! as an engineer i seen this many times, people fear the new technology, but technology isn't bad or good, its just is, human can use it for better or worse, and its true for every new technology, for example nuclear technology is used for better and for the worse, but without it, we couldn't talk about maybe getting to fusion. in the end we already invented the things that can kill all humanity, and we still here, and we can use them for propelling our self to the future.

@russell2449

4 жыл бұрын

Ahh, the voice of reason, lol, couldn't agree more ;?)

@JasonVectrex_187

4 жыл бұрын

What I got from it, would be an explosion of space building and the potential pollution and junk made from it, as we can't keep our own planet clean already, example the space junk problem that we haven't even tried to clean up yet, I never even thought of the militarization of it, but just like how automobiles went on a crazy boom over a hundred years. So to would anything that had to do with this project or could be used by it, but in the end I'm for it because we need to get off the planet and spread to survive anyway at some point. We just need to learn to stop killing each other at some point.

@daos3300

4 жыл бұрын

@Joseph Harner the point was that the risks are high it could be built by the military, or private interests. in which case 'for the good of civilisation' becomes moot. when something is built as a means to exploit or subjugate or harm, or to further the specific interests of a single nation or organisation - or even individual, as stated - it becomes automatically conflated with the inherent drawbacks for humanity as a whole. addressing ethical concerns around huge projects, and science in general, is healthy and necessary.

@JasonVectrex_187

4 жыл бұрын

@@daos3300 well said.

One of my favorite videos on KZread for so many reasons and on so many levels.

Excellent stuff.... For each video, I love the channel more and more, wish that I found it and subscribed sooner.... Looking forward to see many more videos from all of you! 🤗

It quickly got really serious Was not ready But am pleased

We cannot know. So I say "better to fail while trying than to fail while standing still".

This channel is really great. Not only does it explain quite clearly the scientific concept behind potential future projects but it also tackle the deeper questions that they will bring. What could be their political and economic effects ? What ethical and philosophical dilemma will arise ? Not enough science channels talk about these important questions, even though the main social utility of communication about science is to ask them to a larger audience. Bravo Emily Sandford and Cool Worlds !

Great video! I could listen to you guys for days at a time haha

Incredible, intelligent, thoughtful, thorough, thank you for releasing this to the ether.

Good vid. Thanks Emily. I have a question from when I first saw this paper some months ago. There does not seem to be any details on the Dv Costs of "Landing" on the tip closest the earth. The ship needs to spend Dv to slow down from geo sync orbit to land on the elevator tip. Wouldn't it be just as easy to just go all the way to the moon with the DV used?

@Kessemboohaha

4 жыл бұрын

good question

@loklan1

4 жыл бұрын

Why start in Geosync? If you are coming up from LEO you'd have a lower speed at apoapsis.

@tobifoong8025

4 жыл бұрын

@@loklan1 Sorry I dont understand your question... The tip of the elevator is a bit farther out than geosync orbit.. ie about 45000 km above the surface of the earth.

@Kessemboohaha

4 жыл бұрын

@@loklan1 It's not about geosync orbit per se, it's just that the speed you need to be at to orbit at the height of the tip of the rope is much much faster than the speed the tip of the rope is orbiting at, so if you're orbiting up there you need to spend a lot of energy decelerating without lowering your orbit in order to sync up with the rope. Getting to that height at the apoapsis of a lower orbit would help, but the question is how much.

@ellipsis815

4 жыл бұрын

Hi tobi! @loklan1's got it---you're never in proper geostationary orbit, as in you never expend the delta-v to circularize at the Earthward end of the line. It works out that the delta-v to match the speed of, and rendezvous with, the lunar space elevator is minimized at a height of ~25 Earth radii above Earth's surface, but wherever you meet it it's less delta-v than going all the way to the Moon.

"BATSHIT" Great... Now I'm in love.

This it the best video explaining this engineering idea. Very nice!

Hi Emily! Thanks a million for the incredible insight into a fascinating idea. As a complete science noob, could you possibly shed any light on what would be the approximate time a person would take to travel using the Lunar elevator from the geostationary point to the moon's anchor?

You didn't mention about the moon wobbling. have you thought about the calculations for this ?

@Nano606606

4 жыл бұрын

Added to that the L1 point is not really stable at all. It is easy to say we will account for this, but to account for the motion would add push and pull the cable all around causing some major issues, especially to those currently riding on the cable. There are a bunch of other issues that would prohibit its use in practice. You would be better to just build a 'Rotorvator' and just snatch objects from orbit right from the surface - or combine a rotorvator that with a Lostrum loop - fire the loads to space and they are grabbed and re-directed to their destination by the rotorvator. It would be much cheaper and the loads to be returned to Earth/station point without any fuel usage. Which would still be required leaving the orbit of the space elevator. If you have the money for the elevator and want to build big, then spend the money more wisely and build an orbital ring. The cost would be in a similar ballpark but the ring is buildable with current materials and technology and is better in every single possible respect than a space elevator. It also adds a bunch more capability that would allow easy and fast travel around our solar system along with many other uses. Have a look at Isaac Arthur's channel and watch the 'upward bound' playlist. It covers all the best ways to get off world and the pro's and cons in a very concise and easy to understand format.

@philipandrew1626

4 жыл бұрын

Yes I thought the same. Plus the Moon is in an elliptical orbit so the L1 point is moving. Also, even if the structure didn't touch the surface and cargo had to retro-rocket down the figurative last mile, the elevator might still be unstable as the Moon has a fairly unbalanced gravitational field that might makes long term low orbits unstable.

@Czeckie

4 жыл бұрын

where is the problem with having more rope and just compensate for the changing length of L1-Moon. Similarly, I don't see any problem with the weird moon gravitational field - the elevator wouldn't be a passive structure that would work indefinitely once put there, there's gotta be maintenance. It would have thrusters to compensate for the drift.

@suzukitlr8777

4 жыл бұрын

@@Nano606606 hi yes this project has a lot of problems might as well keep pumping all the money to Gateway. I do watch Isaac Arthur I also suggest John Michael godier. Event Horizon. Astrum. All brilliant.

@Nano606606

4 жыл бұрын

@@suzukitlr8777 Hey. Personally I dont like Gateway, its a fuel tax just to go there. But it is a start. I used to love JMG's stuff until he basically featured Ari Loib for months on end spewing his 'Oumuamua is an alien ship' theory. Once was fine, but his contact focus on this idea was offputting. Yes it could have been an alien space craft, but MUCH more likely was it just a rock with an interesting story. Stopped watching him in the past few months.

Something not addressed in the video is the transit time to and from the surface of the moon. My understanding of previous space elevator proposals is that journey time can be quite long. If time isn't a factor, then this might be better for cargo than human passengers.

I'm an engineer currently studying on the physics of orbits and rocket propulsion, as soon as I saw the title of the video I was hooked, I have already thought of an idea like this (if earth elevator was impossible, what about a moon elevator?) that being said, Your (and your colleages) paper was very thorough and I will study it to understand the physics of it. I think it's a great idea and I loved how you solved it, perfectly feasable. I think the ethical implications will have to be handled as the project is being developed ( and it should). I noticed what you said about starlink, I understand, it's a problem, and it was caused by companies and dreamers, same as automobiles, same as airplanes, same as cities that have no urban plan and no green areas. Hopefully we can develop this within the next 10 years.

This is an amazing analysis! I loved the exhaustive technical details you considered and you even took the time to consider ethical dilemmas... a trait more scientists could hone. Also, just like any good analysis of the physical possibilities of our natural world, I've come away with even more questions. Namely, I would love to see this same level of detail applied in analyzing space elevator construction on other celestial bodies in our solar system. Could an elevator be constructed with current materials on some of (or all of) the Galilean moons? Ceres? Mars? Would the presence of Mars' atmosphere make the process unfeasible? Would the presence of any atmosphere? What are the tipping points in gravity and atmospheric density that make these structures impossible with our current materials?

This is really cool to me as a civil engineer, I had written (an admittedly lower quality) research paper on space elevators over a year ago and lunar space elevators were something I had come across and included in it. It has some very cool implications for the future of space transportation!

@Yoel_Mizrachi

Жыл бұрын

Where can I find this paper?

@ggi5658

Жыл бұрын

​@@Yoel_Mizrachithere's no paper lol

To the viewers with questions and/or complaints: please read the articles cited (at least Emily's) before posting.

Great video, Emily, and thank you for taking the time to share that you're grappling with the ethics of work like this. What an amazing idea.

@DeclanMBrennan

4 жыл бұрын

@@ebaziuk That's a little fatalistic if I may say so. How can even motivate yourself to get out of bed in the morning if you believe that none of us have any influence on the future ?

@DeclanMBrennan

4 жыл бұрын

@@ebaziuk It was your second sentence that implied a lack of agency to me: "No matter what she says, things will play out the way they will" implies not only no control but no influence. I have to believe that we each have a small influence in the world and those influences can aggregate to achieve big things whether beneficial or detrimental.

@DeclanMBrennan

4 жыл бұрын

@@ebaziuk Thanks for your reply but I do think you're being rather hard on Emily. I'm sure she's well able to defend herself should she choose but I'll take the bait. :-) I'll grant your point that her exploration of ethics was a little dramatic but she's young and we all were once. Like yourself I've also been lucky enough to design practical stuff - mostly software in my case but on occasion I've said no to stuff that troubled me. You are perfectly correct that concealing information for an idea whose time has come rarely works. All I believe Emily was regretting was not having a section in her paper exploring possible consequences. Considering pros and cons as a society before engaging in new things is entirely sensible and obviously technically literate people with a knowledge of the area have an important part to play in that conversation. That's why we have ethics committees and why for example Elon Musk is helping to fund an institute exploring AI safety. In closing, I explicitly reject your hierarchical view of power. Certainly politicians "above our pay grade" make the ultimate decisions on major endeavours. However in functioning democracies, they work for us - not the other way around.

More Emily please. She's 😎 awesome.

I am glad you changed the name from "The Space Line" otherwise Branson would have snorted it!

This really sounds like some of those wonders in civ games that once built it can never be built by anyone else. Given the unique constraints about this project I believe that asking if we should build it is the wrong question. What we should ask ourselves is can we afford not to build it? Because someone will do this eventually and that entity may not do it with best intentions in mind. For example I could easily see this being built by the Chinese who would maybe then trade transit rights for political leverage, which potentially even more distressing than the US military or an independent private company owning it. I think moving forward we would need to answer a few more questions: *do we have enough materials to build it? This is probably the most relevant question. Given the scale of the projects material requirements could turn out to be strongest argument against pursuing it. *how expensive would such an endeavor be? Even if we have enough materials it could be that the cost of the projects is to prohibitively high for it to be financially feasible right now. *What advantages will we gain by building it and how long will it take before we see a return on investment? This relates to the previous question but also takes into consideration what we have to gain from it. * Could we really live without building it? It may tun out that at least for now it's not worth investing in. Once built how easy will it be o defend against potential attacks? This is also a relevant question as nefarious actors might want to disable or destroy it for their own gain. My proposal is that such a piece of infrastructure should be maintained by a non profit under a UN charter and it should be built as soon as possible if the material costs allow it. It's something that we just can't allow to fall into the wrong hands.

@lordkekz4

4 жыл бұрын

I had similar thoughts on that! I really think these massive endeavors (and problems like climate change) need to be solved by international organizations and be guided by science.

Not sure how I missed this one back when it was uploaded. It's fantastic. I like the part where Emily is like 'if you want to learn more about the complex orbital mechanics stuff, read my paper, otherwise play KSP!" I learned the second way

"Space is upsettingly big" best description ever.

@auntedna6376

4 жыл бұрын

I choked on coffee when she said that. Hahaha

@tomconverse7862

4 жыл бұрын

First, let me start off by saying I like her smile. It's...unique. Just like the idea of a lunar space elevator. Second, the frustration behind her statement, I believe, is funding, technology and materials! All that space will require an astronomical amount of all three and would take YEARS to complete. The only way I see this happening, in addition to the aforementioned, is an international coalition of nations, such as with the ISS. This would be the only way of this ever getting off the ground.

Moon orbit is not perfectly circular. Moon is tidally locked but still librates. What is a mitigation plan in case of cable snap?

@e1123581321345589144

4 жыл бұрын

It's pretty easy to mitigate for a cable snap: you could either build multiple parallel cables or perform regular maintenance to insure that doesn't happen or both. Should be no more difficult than maintain a suspension bridge or a ski lift, it's just a matter of scale.

@CoolWorldsLab

4 жыл бұрын

If both ends were anchored, libration would indeed almost certainly snap the cable. But the other end is free in space so this isn't really crucial with respect to snapping.

@NoHandleToSpeakOf

4 жыл бұрын

@@CoolWorldsLab there are million potential causes for cable to snap including terrorism. What to do when it DID snapped?

@justicevanpool9025

4 жыл бұрын

Modular cable sections and adjustable length, with the center posessing some thrust capability.

@e1123581321345589144

4 жыл бұрын

@@NoHandleToSpeakOf terrorism can also be the cause of airplane crashes or structural failures in a building but that doesn't mean that these should be primarily best addressed through structural engineering. there are much more effective methods to combat terrorism, such as good intelligence.

Fascinating and compelling from start to finish, and very well presented. Emily is the kind of person I would LOVE to meet at a party!

I think of this as a thought experiment more than a "plan." Lunar-anchored space line fixes the cheap part of getting material to the moon, but not the expensive part.

Sure, a lunar space elevator and (eventually) an orbital ring for earth. They're useful ideas, we just need enough people &/or cargo traveling to or from the moon or earth to make these ideas worthwhile.

@UNSCPILOT

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed, an orbital Ring is the best option for Earth even if we perfect carbon nanotubes / Graphene, it lets you place short orbital elevators anywhere you need them and connect them to the relatively low orbital ring instead of just on the equator

@markjgaletti57

4 жыл бұрын

Build it and they will come .

If we leave this to scientists/government, it'll be built by 2300. Private companies are accelerating progress, which is what we need.

@deleterium

4 жыл бұрын

They are accelerating the progress they could not start (return / investment ratio too risky). Maybe this lunar elevator is the same: government build it, then when all big problems were solved, the private companies come do drain your and yours government money.

@AndyNicholson

4 жыл бұрын

But you haven't clarified WHY we NEED this. If this is going to happen it should be done responsibly, gloablly accessible to all nations, with a set of guidelines and universally accepted penalties for misuse. You can only do this if we're all on the same page as to why we need it in the first place, and what it will be used for. Not just doing it for the sake of doing it. We really are shaping our own future in the most profound ways with technologies such as these and we sholdn't just jump straight in without thorough exploration and thought about it's consequences, for all mankind.

@CatholicSatan

4 жыл бұрын

You mean those government initiatives that got us to the moon in the first place in an absurdly quick time with (to our modern eyes) crude equipment? Or allowing the likes of SpaceX etc. to build their systems mostly from government contracts? Or the initiative that is now the Internet? Or those government systems that are universal health care costing less with better outcomes than the US system? Government is not always the bad guy.

@merinsan

4 жыл бұрын

@@CatholicSatan The only government in the world capable of pulling this off at the moment is China. And the way China is, that would scare me for a few reasons. Every other government is overly cautious about ensuring public safety, that they need to do studies into studies about what they plan to do. And then the opposition blocks them because of cost, or just spite.

@merinsan

4 жыл бұрын

@@AndyNicholson We need this for the same reason we need a space program or a mission to Mars. Ultimately we need to get off the planet permanently to ensure the survival of the human race, but that's it. Ideally, such a project would be accessible to everyone, but even if it is not, it will progress the ultimately goal of getting permanent human settlements off planet.

I could listen to Emily Sandford all day.

Just 2 words, Wow brilliant. Of course it has been floating around you bring this idea into the realm of a real possibility. Great!

Very interesting concept and beautifully presented. Like others, I would definitely want to know what it is composed of and how fast it will transport you. However, let's presume a hypothetical situation where it does "snap" or break-up at some point. Does this pose a threat to satellites or even structures / people on Earth, assuming the Earth's gravitational force gets ahold of its remnants?

@xKanastax

4 жыл бұрын

That would be my greatest concern. This thing would have to be made out of very strong materials, so it would likely not burn up if it came crashing through the atmosphere. Are there any mass calculations for this thing yet? We could actually probably model this scenario with a computer. I'm guessing it would not be pretty.

I was dissapointed you didn't go into specifics, concerning what exactly would be necessary for it to function, specifically what's the smallest safe and useful diameter the cable could be, how much material would be needed at said cable diameter, whether we can produce that much, how much that would cost for each of the proposed materials etc. You probably go into more detail in your paper, but it would be nice talking about it on this video. Other than that, great idea and great video :)

@bazoo513

4 жыл бұрын

Read the article - it is on the open-access preprint archive hosted by Cornell; video comments point to it and other related works (and Emily referred to it several times with customary pointing downwards :)) Google Scholar search for titles containing "lunar elevator" or "lunar space elevator" returns more than 150 hits (not including Emily's; her article doesn't have "lunar" in its title). Emily herself mentions some of the previous work.

@AlexIr99

4 жыл бұрын

​@@bazoo513 You must have missed "you probably go into more detail in your paper" I was just saying, it'd be an even nicer video if she went into specifics most likely discussed in her paper.

@bazoo513

4 жыл бұрын

@@AlexIr99 Guilty as charged - I seem to have skipped the last sentence.

Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should

This is so fantastic thank you for sharing the science in such accessible way

Nice presentation and clever. The thing missing for me is some proof that it could be built using current materials - i.e proof in the form of tensile strength calculations, material characteristics, etc. taking into consideration a cable size appropriate to carrying a usable payload to and from the lunar surface. Also some proof of cost savings.

@LeoStaley

4 жыл бұрын

Have a look at Isaac Arthur's video on space elevators. It's much better explained, and refers to specific experiments that have been done with existing materials.

@framegrace1

4 жыл бұрын

The paper is linked on the description. Just check it there if you are interested.

From an engineering perspective: how to counter the oscillating forces? We don't want it to be a space whip.

@bazoo513

4 жыл бұрын

The articles cited, Emily's and others, address that problem, too.

You have a real gift for explaining a complex highly technical idea in a way that is easily understandable! That's quite the rare skill, even in this age of social media that we are living in. (or barely enduring depending on your point of view!)

I am really glad to hear you discussing the potential problems at this early stage. Too often our species wakes up to them when some form of disaster looms. Thank you for an excellent presentation on a subject that is new to me.

She's a great speaker. Love the video

As someone who only heard of the earth-counterweight space elevator, this was really fascinating. I love the amount of detail you went into everything. Even though I totally agree this should be accomplished democratically with ethical oversight, but I don't think you needed to place so much emphasis on some hypothetical dystopian possibility; should have been more a footnote than the set tone for the entire video. But that's just my two cents. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Hope you have more to share in the future!

@211212112

4 жыл бұрын

Herbivore same as far as the footnote

In terms of scary scenarios, one possibility is to manufacture very lo-tech ballistic spears (e.g. compressed regolith) at the moon end that could then be dropped off the earth end. Small thrusters could be used for fine tuning a target as they fall earthwards. However such a weapons platform would be very vulnerable to being disrupted by severing the cable. A more likely scary scenario is that if the cable between the moon and L1 gets severed accidentally close to L1, we could have a substantial space station that will fall almost directly to the earth - unlike a meteorite or orbital satellite - this wouldn't be a glancing collision of the atmosphere so a substantial mass would hit the earth's surface intact - possibly throwing dust up into the atmosphere and impacting the weather for a couple of years.

This is wonderful and anybody who thinks that scientists do not consider the ethical implications of their work should watch it.

Space Force already has plans to create "Gateways" and start building lunar infrastructure. This seems right up their alley. Space Force is amazing tool in diverting military level spending towards finally advancing the advancement of space related fields, in particular the tangible ability to mobilize funds, resources, and industry into serious space projects. Just like this. ... Whether some people call it a "Hegemony" or not. If any other nation were the first to develop nuclear weapons, we'd all be speaking their language and flying their flag by now. America has always had a mellow voice on these matters, and an even influence, overwhelmingly benevolent for a nation of such might and overwhelming advantages. I wouldn't want to see any other nation be the first achieve the next nuke-level breakthrough, than America.

I have been familiar and talking about the lagrange points for years and years and JUST NOW actually understood how it actually works. 🤯

It would be interesting to see what are the engineering problems. The devil is in the details here for sure. Lunar orbit is not a perfect circle (changing the relative distance between Earth, L1 and the Moon) and libration would make the anchor move periodically by several kilometers with respect to the projected surface point each month. The cable might be "telescopically streached and contracted" or the anchor could start from a railway platform with elliptical tracks on the surface of the Moon. Either way I think there would probably be a lot of issues coming from small aspects. Another concern could be Coriolis forces as the elevator cabin rises. If this is done too quick it might generate a huge tensile stress perpendicular to the cable. If the elevator moves slower you get larger travel times. I didn't made the calculations but it might be a key problem. Either way this is an awesome concept and I'm glad students like Emily are researching with such contagious enthusiasm. You gusy are awesome.

@CoolWorldsLab

4 жыл бұрын

Miki P liberation was the thing I actually talked to Emily about after seeing the paper for the first time, I agree it complicates things but shouldn’t be a deal breaker

The Earth side of the elevator would be rotating at less than orbital angular velocity and so would be feeling gravity. Docking with it would therefore be quite a challenge as you would need to launch from the Earth on a suborbital trajectory and then hope to be caught by the station before you fell back or ran out of fuel to station keep. You could only launch during a limited window each day and then only one rocket at a time limiting the capacity of this thing. Another thought is that coming back to Earth will result in a very aggressive re-entry to the atmosphere.

I honestly think that we should start with some kind of lunar base. And then a space elevator would be worth doing. Great idea though 👍

@211212112

4 жыл бұрын

Michael Wise definitely need to explore some of those lunar caverns!!

@livefire666

4 жыл бұрын

Ya and we know for sure there is LOTS of ice in those craters on the moon! Thats Oxygen, water, and hydrogen rocket fuel, combine it with carbon and you have methane fuel rocket fuel.

@russell2449

4 жыл бұрын

Ahh, but then the U.S. military might want to militarize the Moon, or evil old Elon might build a private mansion there, ohhh noooooo... smh.

@livefire666

4 жыл бұрын

@CyborgJiro Ya I'm thinking like we build a small base to specifically build the elevator then expand the base quickly and cheaply!

You seem to go through similar regrets Oppenheimer went through developing the hydrogen bomb. You are not alone. Worry of a few is what keeps the rest save. Thank you for going through this.

This is actually really interesting stuff. Love the videos!

Emily your video was quite interesting and I enjoyed watching very much. Best wishes for your future.

_After two years of study at the L1 Antarctic Research Station, NASA scientists have conceded that they have not found a single penguin._

@CoolWorldsLab

4 жыл бұрын

Massimo O'Kissed I really thought they’d be at least one space penguin

I saw something like this in an Anime but for the life of me I can't remember the name, in the anime the end of the cable was attached to a sled and when the moons orbit got closest to the earth the sled lowered down to a sort of ski lift landing pad "imagine a high speed lift that slows to pick up skiers" and it slowed enough to load cargo and then sped away after loading. I love science! And science fiction! Thanks for sharing and as always keep building👍

@JosephHarner

4 жыл бұрын

I'd definitely like to know the name of this one, too. The structure you mention sounds more like a skyhook, though.

@alluriman

3 жыл бұрын

I think its "Turn A Gundam" but I think it wasn't a lunar space elevator. It was a skyhook. ending of episode 34 you can watch it on dailymotion "[HL]_Turn_A_Gundam_34_DVD[C1E53817]" edit: actually yours sounds slightly different might be "gundam reconguista in G" but idk anymore

This is incredible. Cool World's has incredible and interesting things to show me. I'm like a kid watching his favorite cartoon when I watch these videos. They're so exciting and interesting to watch.👍👍👍

Hubba hubba !!! Wow. I am in love. The idea is super interesting and I was mesmerized by how smart and cute Dr Sandford is … I was smiling, following every word, with my heart leaping around my chest, … And so stoked on this L.S.E., … excited I may see this built in my lifetime.

Emily, now put a split in the elevator "cable", to multiple locations on the Moon

@jamespong6588

4 жыл бұрын

BigCooter.com yes.

@daos3300

4 жыл бұрын

@BigCooter.com why?

@KrustyKlown

4 жыл бұрын

@@daos3300 because going to just ONE place on the Moon is rather limiting and useless. That would be like saying we got one highway from NY to CA, why build any others?

@giovannibini6809

4 жыл бұрын

@Mr Purple put one to the dark side and use it to slingshot everywhere in the solar system

Rocket launches torching the climate? That is hardly going to be a problem. A little knowledge about atmospheric volume might come in handy.

@massimookissed1023

4 жыл бұрын

A Saturn V only used as much kerosene as 4 Boeing 747s. There are thousands of _them_ in the air at any moment.

@CorwynGC

4 жыл бұрын

A little knowledge about high altitude atmospherics would also. Any know of any?

@jkenny1

4 жыл бұрын

Tim Dodd will be giving a talk about this in a few days, should know more about rocket pollution then.

I saw the work done on a cable from Earth. This is fantastic! It solves so many issues

I loved the ethical arguments exposed. Private entrerprise can be very dangerous (now that a huge increase in the acces to resources is going to happen) and we need more awareness about how industry would behave in the opening of space to humankind. We don't want to move our military, cultural and social problems to space, we want to grow as a species, pushed by the constraints posed by space and physics only, and without the limitations of labor exploitation or economical conflict. We really need a discussion like the one mentioned by Emily. We do not realize how close we are to start this journey (even if the lunar elevator comes after several centuries), the time to talk about this was yesterday.

You really need to read, hard scifi. Most of what you talked about has been covered, both scientifically and ethically.

@manuramirez1057

4 жыл бұрын

JoekerXXX I swear just one tittle gundam 00

I have no issues with a private company builds this.

A fascinating exposition thank you. One minor point (that you no doubt covered in your paper if not the video):- as opposed to L4 and L5, L1 is an unstable equilibrium point. An object at L1 would need station keeping thrusters to give it a nudge back every now and again. Is the lunar cable system as a whole in a stable or an unstable equilibrium. Intuitively it seems like it might be like a pendulum cable hanging "down" and so would be more stable than L1 by itself - however my intuition only evolved to cope with swinging through the trees. :-)

Love this idea!

Beautiful and Smart, this young woman has very bright future.

@LaurenMiddleton28

4 жыл бұрын

You know Every girl in David's class has a crush on him..Lol

@ClaudeSac

4 жыл бұрын

So the beauty you see (you're a horny old dude, right) is HALF of what makes you think her future is bright.... tsk-tsk-tsk...

@LaurenMiddleton28

4 жыл бұрын

@rrobertt13 lol.. She looks like a cross between.. Physics girl on KZread and Corey Haim the 80's actor..

@maxbasem6482

4 жыл бұрын

Talk is cheap... go ask her for a date

@MrEnjoivolcom1

4 жыл бұрын

@@LaurenMiddleton28 I'm a straight man and think he's a prime Male specimen.

Excellent overview on the viability of a lunar space elevator. Many thanks for the links to relevant papers.

I appreciate the cautious approach to the Lunar elevator (or line) proposition however, it's a bit bordering on preachy. I'm a fan of science like the next guy but I'm also a realist. Allow me to explain in terms of biology. Every animal species on this Earth has developed a natural set of abilities and adaptions that are genetically encoded to guarantee its survival. Lions have fangs and claws, cuttlefish and octopus have adaptive camouflage and special cells in their body that take the shape and texture of its aquatic surroundings, snakes have venom, rhinoceros have tough hide & horns, etc. These adaptions even extend to the kingdom of flora such as poison ivy, lilac, fly catchers and pollinator flowers. When it comes to humans, the only real "weapon" we have is our gray matter. Our brain. With it we can build or destroy. We shape the environment around us because of it. And as the highest sentient beings on this planet we are defined by our innate push to innovation. That's where the space elevator comes into play. Our advances in science and technology are at the very core of our existence. They are the pillars of our human experience with which we shape a prosperous society. We are specifically fine-tuned to breathe the special cocktail of gases and nutrients that make up our life-sustaining atmosphere- just like the rest of the animals. We belong here. So maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing to be optimistic. Anyways, those are my two cents, and thank you for reading! 🤓✨️

Love this channel.

Made it halfway through. I'm new to this channel, so far i enjoyed delving into the videos - but this one, i don't know. I don't mean to be mean, or rude, but this is disappointing. It feels like listening to someone who doesn't understand physics, acting like a big deal because it's "very doable". Even more worrying are the comments. Did anyone who appears to be flabbergasted by this idea actually run the numbers, even just roughly? You need a cable roughly 380.000.000 meters long. 380 million meters. The reason carbon nanotubes are brought up isn't mainly because it's tough, it's because there's nothing even remotely comparable to it in weight. Lets go with Kevlar, since that was suggested (though stupid, since it's UV degradable). A 10 inch thick kevlar rope weighs 150kg for 30m, or 5kg per meter. Hell, lets half that. Lets go with a 4.5 inch cable/rope at around 2kg per meter - as a sidenote, these are real numbers, easy to look up on the web on webpages specialising on material strengths. That means you need to haul 760.000 TONS anywhere from LEO to the moon. The biggest launcher we have currently manages around 60 tons to LEO, and the biggest, most powerful launcher that ever existed/worked (Saturn 5) managed 140 tons to LEO, 30 tons to the moon (so what, 35tons to L1 where everything needs to go?). I do not understand why people go "hm, aw, yes, so doable, such great idea" as if NASA scientist and engineers are too stupid to come up with this "invention", do you actually believe that nobody thought of this before? The arrogance is astounding. The reason nobody brings this up is because it's utter nonsense with current technology. Even if the cable weighs 10 GRAMS per meter (three foot and change), your cable weighs 38.000 tons. That's almost 1100 launches of the Saturn 5 that doesn't exist anymore - or around 1200 launches of the SLS Block 2 that doesn't exist yet and is also not reusable. Talking all smart about how this "invention" has the danger of increased pollution through space tourism, while suggesting 1200 rocket launches just to build the thing (if you assume a 10 gram per meter cable, which is obviously idiocy - that's the weight of two single sheet letters, or a meter of yarn). Hell, kevlar is listed as a material suitable for the "space elevator" - ignoring the fact that it's UV degradable. What about heat? None of the listed materials is great at radiating heat, but some of them are great at absorbing heat. I'm sorry if this comes off as rude, but the reason that nobody is doing it is because it's not doable. Not even remotely. Not just because it'd be prohibitively expensive (a single SLS lauch costs around 2b usd, and you need 1200 of them), but because there's no material that you can make the rope out of. Not even close. We're not even getting into the grittier stuff like a "cable car" not being 100% balanced on all sides, exerting force onto the cable. If you make the cable strong enough for a cable car not to be able to tangle it on an accident (because its own weight pulls it "solid") - what material are you gonna use, and what weight do you think you can suspense at the very tip without tearing it? You're talking tourism and whatnot, so you're suggesting that you can suspend literal tons off of that cable. Show me the material that's less than a mm thick, weighs 10g per meter and has the tensile strength to carry what, a few thousand tons (it has to carry itself too)? I'm blown away by the ignorance, both of the comments and this student. Sure, we all have ideas, some of which stick with us for a very long time, but at the VERY least, you run the numbers to check if there's a possibility. You clearly claim that it's "absolutely doable", when in reality it's absolutely impossible. Not just "improbable", factually impossible. Which means that you either didn't bother to look at the very basic requirements (hey google, how much would a meter of kevlar rope weigh?"), or you chose to ignore those very obvious flaws in your "invention for the third time". I know that students today have trouble with facts and feel hurt if someone points out flaws, but the here's reality. All your ethic concerns? That's all doable today. Cheaper, more reliable, and more available than your idea would ever be. Including space tourism, weaponizing space, going to the moon - literally everything is cheaper now than it would be with your "invention". I can launch 1200 rockets before you even set your cable, and once it's set, then what? Here's the dumbest thing about your "invention". You're making the cheapest part of space travel stupendously expensive, while still relying on the most dangerous and expensive part of space travel - the rocket launch. That's the idea of the actual space elevator, to not launch rockets anymore, because that's the expensive part. To be clear: getting from earth into a LEO requires around 9500km/s delta-v. Getting from LEO to the moon is 4100km/s delta-v. You want to launch 1200 rockets and burn trillions of dollars to eliminate the 4100km/s from the equation, while still relying on rockets that need 9500km/s delta-v just to get to the cable. In fact, it's cheaper to go from LEO to the moon, land on the moon, ascend back up from the surface, and return to earth than it is to get from earth into LEO. From LEO to moon surface and back to earth (everything included) is 9100km/s. I mean.. good luck. But don't hold your breath.

@TheDarkHour684

Жыл бұрын

Why are you using periods in your numbers???

I am having trouble focusing on the information that I don't understand because I can't figure out if that is a blurry Picard action figure behind you. But cool space ladder!

@CoolWorldsLab

4 жыл бұрын

Aunt Edna the Picard is a magical being, we must all bow down to him

This only further deepens my love for orbital mechanics/sciences

9:48 Nothing different will happen at L1 vs a gravitation neutral obit speed like the ISS does. Any object dropped will will just keep going out of reach with what ever direction and velocity was imparted to it, or if carefully place it will just hang there in either location.

Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos should work together to build this ASAP and launch the space economy, we are 50 years behind where we should be!

@UNSCPILOT

4 жыл бұрын

Best place to start is moon and orbital based manufacturing and construction so that you don't need to launch everything you need to build it

@feryth

4 жыл бұрын

True, but first we need to get to the Moon.

@livefire666

4 жыл бұрын

F Eryth You mean “get to the moon AGAIN”. We were there 6 times over 4 years. Hint “we are 50 years behind where we should be”. Watch Apollo 17 8 hour uncut videos on KZread. Back then it was just another 8 hour day of driving around and setting off explosives for seismic studies and drilling core samples. We could of built this fucking thing back then! But Vietnam was a better use of money Nixon and the rest of them thought. Our government is run by psychotic morons....

@feryth

4 жыл бұрын

@@livefire666 Hey, at least your government can afford a space program

@livefire666

4 жыл бұрын

F Eryth What country are you from?

An excellent post, Cool Worlds!

May I ask how each materials were selected based on what you had shown in your video? Is it based on tensile strength? taper ratio? tension performances? or maybe the specific velocity of each material? Thank you very much for your time. Great video btw.

How did you get a space elevator working in KSP? I thought the software didn't allow anything larger than 2.5 km.

This was a very sobering video about current "future" technology. Very insightful. Thank you!

its videos like these that make me wish I'd chosen astrophysics as a degree course (instead of maths & comp sci) & also worked harder so i could have got the grades to allow me to do a PhD

@CoolWorldsLab

4 жыл бұрын

Common Sense it’s never too late to learn!

Fantastic Job Emily!

I would recommend checking out the work that is being done with 2D single-crystal graphene. In particular, Dr. Nixon of the University of Manchester indicated that this material has a tensile strength of 130 GPa and cost-effective mass production is not a problem.