You forgot to say that these books all MUST have a floral cover design ....

Steve, careful with the flamethrower. The bean is too close!

I must say this was a superior rant. I am surprised at how much I agreed with. I can't think how impoverished my life would have been if I confined myself to only a few genres.

This from Tommy Orange interview in The Guardian: "I skipped a lot of the classics because I didn’t read in school, and I don’t really feel like I’m missing out. Sometimes I’ll try to go back and read older stuff, but I get really bored with old voices."

@matchasketch8224

4 жыл бұрын

Elizabeth McLean LMAO XD

@SakariHapponen

3 жыл бұрын

LOL!! Atleast I'm now saved that I don't have to buy his book

I know you are having fun with this...but it seems that your definition of literary fiction is a bit limited.

I just recently read a Nathaniel Hawthorne book so 😜. I think there's a lot less condescension from people who read literary fiction than what you suggest is happening.

Boy oh boy, you weren't kidding. Oh well; back to my Proust.

Your rant sounds like you think people should read more Hemingway and Faulkner? :) Curious to know what you would classify Markley's _Ohio_ , Colson Whitehead's _The Nickel Boys_ , etc.

@RashmikaLikesBooks

4 жыл бұрын

Bookish whyyyyy? Hemingway is so overrated! 😉(We'll see about Faulkner.)

@BookishTexan

4 жыл бұрын

@@RashmikaLikesBooks "Papa help them for they do not know." --- The Book of Papa, Chapter 2, Verse 3.

Rant videos are always the best videos.

Interesting. Most of the literary fiction I've read is by white men. I think the race of the author is quite irrelevant regarding the quality of the work, and it shouldn't be a factor in reading or not reading the book. I sincerely hope the snooty lit fic readers you describe don't exist. I've certainly never met them.

I loved your rants!

Ooh, can you do a starter kit for African literature?

@drawyourbook876

4 жыл бұрын

I don't know if steve will agree with this, but from what i have read, chinua achebe and ngugi wa thiongo are two good authors to start with. I also really liked the non-fiction dead aid

@williams.5952

4 жыл бұрын

@@drawyourbook876 Steve has said that he is a big fan of Ngũgĩ.

Preach, brother!! Love this. I would've been one of those people talking about the "last Louis L'Amour novel" I read. I cut my teeth on fiction with L'Amour paperbacks when I was growing up. And I think I'm better off for it. Literary fiction today is often snooty and self-righteous, so when I do step away from history and biographies to dip a toe into the fiction pond, I look for something fun and artfully unaware of itself. Those stories are the best. :)

To this day, even with YOUR definition of literary fiction, I am very confused on what counts as a LFN. Maybe this is just me being ignorant, but I am seeing authors that I personally think are truly talented and noteworthy (such as Donna Tartt, Julie Orringer, and Joyce Carol Oates for a couple of examples) being grouped together with this snooty squad of writers (such as Bret Easton Ellis, David Foster Wallace, Johnathan Franzen etc.) just because they are authors that have written works that are not considered genre fiction. Not only is this stupid and just plain wrong, I mean Oates has written horror and Orringer is KNOWN for her historical fiction, but it is also further evidence on why the whole literary fiction scene is starting to concern me. I think you NAILED this rant/tag. The whole snobbish, "upscale" scene is a crowd that I will admit that I used to be interested in and a fan of. However, I feel like I have a greater appreciation of authors that write well-rounded genre fiction. I would much rather read an Ursula K. Le Guin or a J.R.R. Tolkien book than ANYTHING within the abyss of the "Brooklyn Scene" (as you describe it). GREAT video and I hope we can see a video in the future of the inverse of this video. Specifically, genre fiction that is EXCELLENT! -Graham :)

@recoveringknowitall1534

3 жыл бұрын

Joyce Carol oates? What the actual Fck? Lol

What did Nigeria, Connecticut, and Williamsburg do to hurt you so? Though in all seriousness, I don't think I know anyone close to the people described here. We don't really have hipsters in central Oklahoma.

This was exactly what I needed today

@saintdonoghue

4 жыл бұрын

Not too spleeny for you?

Beautiful rants!

I’m not sure what I just listened to, but I had fun!

Well Steve I do believe you're correct that we under-30's are in fact all knowing. Now, if you'll excuse me I'm going to go write a lengthy post on /lit/ about how James Joyce perfected the novel with Finnegan's Wake.

@aminthereader8946

4 жыл бұрын

Lol!

You have such a way of words, Steve!

Dang it, you stole my answer for experimental LFN! (The Wake) The problem with this tag is that literary fiction isn't a genre, and everyone's just describing what they like (or think they should like) Working on my version...

Of the people who read, many only read about 12 books a year. I doubt very much whether they are reading literary fiction. If you are only going to read 12 books a year, you should read what you like.

Congrats on the 5,000! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Bravo Steve, you hit a home run with this video.

@MarcNash

4 жыл бұрын

Umps review ruled it foul

So much truth in this video! Love it. 😂😂

What are the parameters of “contemporary”, a window of 5, 10 or 20 years? It appears, by default, “literary” is any fiction that does not fall into a clearly defined genre.

That was very refreshing, when l started watching booktube, l couldn't believe how many booktubers, very known ones l mean, read only contemporary literary fiction never even touching authors from 50, 100 years ago, that l read in my teens or early 20s (well maybe they will read " Mrs. Dalloway "... ) Thank you for that, l wish more booktubers read older books , not just the latest ones sent by publishers to them , they will never know what they are missing

Oh, this was...wow. I liked it though. Several great points.

Hey, Steve. This was brilliant.

I don't know any readers like the ones you mentioned at the beginning there. Thank god.

Excellent! Still laughing

I don't get why this vid turned to crtiquing readers, who are, besides not being the subject of the tag, as described here straw men. Occasionally I pop in to see your thoughts as an intelligent, enormously well-read person, but 99% of the videos are tours de force in defensiveness in the guise of self-venerating insight.

@saintdonoghue

4 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry you feel that way, but a) I employ no straw men in the course of this video - all of my scorn is based on actual flesh-and-blood readers I've known over the decades, and b) I'm neither defensive nor, especially, self-venerating in this or any other video - as I mention here & in other videos, I both read lot of contemporary fiction and like a lot of it. But of course I'm curious: if 99% of your viewing experience on this channel is negative, why would you pop in, even occasionally? Why would you watch a channel you very much dislike?

@marianryan2991

4 жыл бұрын

@@saintdonoghue I heard tell you were roasting novels about divorce in middle-class Connecticut, and I was down for that! So I thought I might land on more common ground with this video, and the various takes on this tag I've quite enjoyed so I figured what the heck. You're referenced quite often on other channels I do quite like, which also makes me occasionally wonder what I am missing. I.e., I tried. But I must now confess to giving up the ghost.

@saintdonoghue

4 жыл бұрын

@@marianryan2991 Your impressions of me aren't accurate, but at least you gave it a try - you certainly shouldn't keep watching a channel you don't like.

You're very well lit in this video🎥🧔

😇

I misunderstood.. pity, yeah. My only foray into Literary Fiction, I think, is Matthew Pearl. Read him?

But no one asked about Contemporary Literary Fiction! Literary Fiction, not bound to limited rules like Genre Fiction, is resolutely superior. Obviously proven by the fact that Literary Fiction contributes more books to the Classic Canon. If you disagree then surely you are standing with EXACTLY those people who champion that sort of Contemporary Lit Fic. They do not believe in the Canon either.

@OldBluesChapterandVerse

4 жыл бұрын

Amin The Reader - What’s the deal with you and me agreeing so much lately?

@aminthereader8946

4 жыл бұрын

@@OldBluesChapterandVerse Lol! We've got Boris now. The balance to the universe has been restored.

@BookishTexan

4 жыл бұрын

I have two problems with your statement. First, if the Canon is a construct of the exact kind of book snobs Steve references who have, throughout literary history, wielded the power to pronounce a work great, then it shouldn't surprise us that the Canon is full of works of literary fiction. Second, genre fiction is not inherently inferior to literary fiction. Great works of genre fiction are still great literature.

@williams.5952

4 жыл бұрын

Bookish I agree with the second part, but I disagree that the canon is determined by whether a work is praised by snobs. I think it’s more about importance/influence. Plenty of books have been praised in their day but aren’t in the canon now.

@BookishTexan

4 жыл бұрын

@@williams.5952 Perhaps, but I think Steve (in other videos) effectively argues that what ends up in the Canon are books that are taught in school -- High School, College, etc. And the people that choose those books tend toward literary snobbery.

So, what do you call Literary Fiction that's not contemporary? Classics? But there are classics of all genre... I'm not American, I struggle a "lit" bit with your classifications... Help me please!

@williams.5952

4 жыл бұрын

I think non-contemporary literary fiction is still literary fiction.

I now have no need to sign onto Twitter. BP ⬆️

I'm new to reading and I was stunned by the amount of contemporary writing that is centered on injustice. Racism, sexism, bigotry, etc. I truly believe that it should be a genre unto itself. You walk into a book store and the social injustice section is in-between the history and poetry sections. I feel like most writers of contemporary fiction have a little voodoo doll of a cis white man that they love to stab with every injustice that can be named while they write their 250 pages of running gravel through their hair.

Does anyone mind if I place Sheila Heti on this bonfire? So to speak

Geez. And here I thought lit’ry fiction was along the lines of Wallace Stegner or Colm Toibin. Sigh. My ignorance, happy though it may be, is vast.

Hi Britta!

This video would be a good ref for the Self Aware Tag. Lol

I do wish you wouldn't hold back on your rants. Please let us followers know just what you really feel! Would hate to see you when you get really worked up on a subject. I think the bean took the hint and thought "This could get ugly I'm outta here"

@saintdonoghue

4 жыл бұрын

Hee - I posted a warning, didn't I?

That definition can go straight into the dictionary!

Character arcs are overrated. If you allow the lack of structure in Ducks, because it's just how humans think, then character arcs are antithetical to how human beings are, since we are far more likely to be stuck and repeat our behaviours (a la Freud), rather than develop along a plottable graph, learn lessons and gain redemption or suffer a tragic fate, though one ennobled by the lessons learned. Classical Greek Drama & Aristotlean Poetics have a lot to answer for.

It seems your definition of the entire genre is contingent on your perception of the majority of the people reading it. If there are good qualities on these types of books, they remain, irrespective of who's reading them.

@saintdonoghue

4 жыл бұрын

I do a great deal of genre-defining in this video on the basis of the books, not their readers!

Great rant, but I guess my experience of what the world seems to define as "contemporary literary fiction" contains way more white blokes than yours. My sense is that Martin Amis, Jonathan Franzen, Julian Barnes, Howard Jacobson, Joshua Ferris, Don DeLillo, Cormac McCarthy, Jonathan Lethem, Colum McCann, George Saunders, Jonathan Safran Foer, Nathan Englander and others are all thriving as (straight?) white men whose books are promoted as "literary fiction".

Your definition of literary fiction is very limited. The original question doesn't say it has to be so modern; you could include literary fiction from any era. You seem to be refering to a kind of 'snowflake generation' literature. Many of the 'Modernist' authors fit your criteria and have the faults you complain of: Virginia Woolf, James Joyce, Franz Kafka, etc, especially in their approach to plot, though they seem to have some method in their madness.

@charlottetracy3970

3 жыл бұрын

He did mark it as a "RANT"

@muskndusk

3 жыл бұрын

@@charlottetracy3970 Yes, I know, but he seemed to confine his 'rant' to a rather strange definition of literary fiction. Maybe his muscled young men weren't around that day.

Never wanted to smash the like button on a video as fast or as frantically as I did this one, after the very first sentence. I think we have enough books about gay, transgendered, black, Muslim drag queens by now #JustSaying

under 30 here, i''v read 33 books this year/16 of the authors are dead and only about 3 could be categorised as literary (circe, stay with me and my sister the serial killer) only really enjoyed stay with me, i felt when reading the other two that they were curiously hollow/ circe especially read like an Alice Hoffman book which is to say enjoyable but operating on entirely the same level throughout the book and not really deserving of so much hype, now reading my cousin Rachel and enjoying it 100% times more,

This defining business got started poorly, I think, but eventually got more agreeable. Lol

Wow Steve. Tell us how you really feel about "historical" fiction. Lol. Not my favorite genre either. Have a great day

Steve! I’m triggered. Well I hope you can live with yourself.

I'd be curious to know of you still feel this way or have been converted. Most people eventually convert to the cult. As for contemporary literary fiction, it's patently very mediocre.

A racist, narrow minded, misogynistic, sexist rant.... I subscribed but after this unsubscribed, all in 10 minutes. At least now I won't have to put up with you fawning over that dog!

This is a racist (and uninformed--literary fiction is written by women and immigrants almost exclusively: really???) rant, and I think it has aged poorly. Do you still stand by this stuff?

@saintdonoghue

4 жыл бұрын

As I have to explain often to creatures like you, you don't get to ask me a question if you open with a personal insult. Even so, I'm surprised you had enough self-control to use only two bits of idiotic meme-speak. You've got the "really???" and the "aged poorly" but no "read the room" or "yikes."

@lavachebeadsman

4 жыл бұрын

@@saintdonoghue Yup. figures that you'd call me a "creature."

@saintdonoghue

4 жыл бұрын

Lavache Beadsman better or worse than calling somebody a racist? (Note: it’s a rhetorical question. Since you personally insulted me, I obviously don’t care what you think)

Congrats on the 6,000! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!