This game came out a month before my son's birth. My view of the ending was clear: I understood Joel's reasoning, but I could never be so selfish. As soon as my son was born, my stance changed completely. Were I ever in such a scenario, the world could burn so long as my son was safe. It's so messed up. I understand the biological reasons for my feelings, but I just don't care.

@FakYuhGoogel

5 жыл бұрын

So in case of TLoU scenario, kill fresh parents first because they're the biggest threat to the survival of humanity?

@wadepkun89

5 жыл бұрын

The game itself actually changed my mind about what I would do. I understood the choice. I understood that the "right" thing in principle would have been a utilitarian approach - make the sacrifice - obvious. But as you say, I just do not care. I save the ones I love every time, ... "because I choose to"

@IIISWILIII

5 жыл бұрын

The massive change in one's own perspective and priorities upon their creating life is nothing short of astounding. And it's nearly impossible for anyone who hasn't walked that path to truly understand without having that experience for themselves.

@forresthunter1483

5 жыл бұрын

@@IIISWILIII I completely agree. I'm a very logical person; offensively so to a lot of people I know. It's shocking just how much of an effect biological imperatives can have on a person's mind.

@JohnyTuff1

5 жыл бұрын

Ally isnt Joel's daughter, theyve known each other for only a small time. Their bond isnt strong its only a friendship. Ally wanted to save the human race, i'd respect her decision. I wouldnt kidnap her and kill everyone because of my hurt feelings...thats what an emotional little boy would do.

*Humanity took my little girl, so I will take its little girl. * If Joel's daughter did not die from being shot and was instead killed by the fungus I think he would have sacrificed Ellie.

@bigboibubba5528

5 жыл бұрын

Damn that's a beautiful way to put it

@yawarapuyurak3271

5 жыл бұрын

...you just make it all have more sense to me. Thank you

@6ixlxrd

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I definitely agree. Joel blamed people for Sarah's death, not the virus. People were what took his first daughter away from him, and people yet again planned to take away his second daughter. He had far more reason to hate humanity, in the instance, than he did the virus, which is why he saved Ellie.

@victorjuarez2095

5 жыл бұрын

I don’t think he would’ve hesitated, insert *bring me my mkney* clip

@ifacecamp717

5 жыл бұрын

Even then I dont know. Ellie was his 2nd chance at a daughter. I dont think hed let her die

You don't sacrifice humanity by saving Ellie. Humanity is already gone. What's left is a bunch a survivors who would do anything to stay alive, including kill their own.

@ifacecamp717

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The past is in the past. The cure is not even worth 1 girls life anymore

@KafkaDatura

4 жыл бұрын

That's my entire rationale, and it seems many people missed it. Would I sacrifice Ellie to save humanity? Mm, maybe. Would I sacrifice her to save what's left of humanity in TLOU? Lol nope, they can all die for all I care. It's pretty obvious that at this point, what remains of humanity are the clans, the gangs, the violent, the morally twisted and the savages -even Joel's hands aren't entirely clean from what the beginning of the game tells us. Fuck 'em. If 10 000 people remain, Ellie is worth all of them.

@ifacecamp717

4 жыл бұрын

@@KafkaDatura think about this. Everyone you meet in the game is a hardened fighter and killer. Literally everyone. There are no more kind or decent people because if they didnt have what it took to survive they died. Therefore the hope of restoring humanity with the already living generation is hopeless imo

@captasticts8419

4 жыл бұрын

@@ifacecamp717 debatable

@growingstruggle5493

4 жыл бұрын

What about Joel's Brother he created something near to a civilezed community with electricity and he manager to riunite a bunch of families so there's hope for a better future. I think Joel's choise was driven by his older traumas and by The lack of meaning of his life after his daughter's Death, a hole filled by Ellie, in the end i think that Joel personifies the irrationality of humanity which driven by emotions not rationality and this Will inevitably lead our specie to extinction.

The whole point of the game is that all of us are Joel, even if only in that final moment. That's why saving Ellie was never offered as a choice.

@Micheal93k

5 жыл бұрын

I agree up to a point. But once Marlene said, "It's what she'd want." Then I was like, "wait". Then It's solidified at the end when Ellie tries to explain what it all meant to her.

@lukaosojnik3406

5 жыл бұрын

I believe saving Ellie had a bigger and more important backround to the developers than the rational choice and thats a sequel.

@zackwalker1789

5 жыл бұрын

@@lukaosojnik3406 I don't think they originally thought they'd make a sequel. They didn't think it was even gonna be successful

@jamesstewart6219

5 жыл бұрын

@@zackwalker1789 They're Naughty Dog. Why wouldn't they think that?

@zackwalker1789

5 жыл бұрын

@@jamesstewart6219 because they had a lot of problems in development and it was a new IP so they had a lot of doubts. Like if you look at trailers for the game you'll see that there was a lot of stuff that they thought was gonna be in the game that they weren't able to implement. Mainly, combat was going to be much better. That's not to say that combat is bad. I quite enjoy it, but it's not great. It's just suffice

"You'd just come after her"

@polymathpilgrim207

5 жыл бұрын

💥🔫😤

@dylans8050

5 жыл бұрын

*Scary music intensifies*

@JuanSolo9

4 жыл бұрын

I wonder how Ellie is going to react if she ever finds out what Joel did.

@geordiejones5618

4 жыл бұрын

@@JuanSolo9 I can see it in TLOU2: Joel maybe really injured and confessing that he saved her from the Fireflies, she's weirdly calm as he begins to explain his reasoning, and then shoots him in the head, with a cut to black, season change and that perfect light guitar

@silverblade357

4 жыл бұрын

@@geordiejones5618 Kinda doubt that. Ellie wouldn't feel all that vengeful toward Joel upon learning that the woman she trusted like a mother planned to kill and harvest her. Yeah, Joel made that choice for her, but so did Marlene.

The fact that The Last of Us 1 is still relevant to this day is amazing.

@donthaveaname9208

4 жыл бұрын

Ikr...................... CAUSE TLOU 2 IS COMING!!!

@curlydaduck

4 жыл бұрын

@@donthaveaname9208 boiiii i have news for you...

@sphexine

3 жыл бұрын

@@curlydaduck Last of us 2 is Cancer, that is the news

@SomeGuyWhoPlaysGames333

3 жыл бұрын

The Last of Us is only 8 years old. People still talk about games from 20+ years ago.

@vooks319

3 жыл бұрын

The Last of Us*. There is no part 2. There never was. Spare yourself.

Q: would you sacrifice the one you loved for the greater good? A: Absolutely not. The "greater good" isnt "good" enough.

@remex4110

4 жыл бұрын

Good Line

@selectdevotee6810

4 жыл бұрын

Iron Wrist Fighters My A: Yes I would.

@TheYoungWolfI

4 жыл бұрын

Also with no guarantee that their naive greater good would succeed. Let's say I put a vaccine in your hand. Great. Now what? I'm sure all the marauders, barbaric human tribes, and cultists will just trust and accept you. Then you'll hop the next magic airplane to Asia or Europe where you might find someone who just neutralized the spores or found a cure by some other means. No. Ellie, the Fireflies, and Joel haters are naive as balls.

@rzwitdauncut

2 жыл бұрын

2 years later.... it was never good and never will be. i mean just look at the world now. you think this place is worth saving?

@jcgamer1650

Жыл бұрын

@@rzwitdauncut Hell nah

The Fireflies honestly seemed very unprofessional and untrustworthy. Notice how they constantly mess up their own plans

@patch-fm

5 жыл бұрын

Hey still better than dutch ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@AL-lz6px

5 жыл бұрын

@@patch-fm As a Portuguese I can confirm: anything's more trustworthy than the Dutch.

@thefreshprincer5587

5 жыл бұрын

@@AL-lz6px smart man

@patch-fm

5 жыл бұрын

@@AL-lz6px I was talking about dutch from rdr2.

@AL-lz6px

5 жыл бұрын

@@patch-fm Oh.

Joel didn't know that extracting a potential cure from Ellie would kill her until she was already under put under for surgery. I imagine, if they both had known previously, Ellie would have had input which Joel would have respected.

@guccii_daddyy

5 жыл бұрын

true it was after joel loved her as a daughter if he knew that she would die when they first met joel wouldnt of cared

@theitalianbalddude1070

5 жыл бұрын

Renton156 srsly all the fireflies had to do was give Ellie a choice but no there selfish

@djr3385

4 жыл бұрын

The thing is is that it wasn’t even a “cure”. It was said by Marlene that it was a vaccine which is FAR different from a cure

@guccii_daddyy

4 жыл бұрын

@@djr3385 yes true

@Joseph-sg3jz

4 жыл бұрын

Ellie is 14 years old she's to young to make that kind of decision

Here's the thing... based on the lore of the game, there was a distinctly significant possibility that Ellie's sacrifice would in the end be in vain. Killing her wouldn't guarantee or almost guarantee a cure, and might in fact actually doom humanity. If Ellie survived, she could father children who would inherent her immunity. If she died to give them a potential for a cure however, there would only be one chance for success.

@Shamshiro

5 жыл бұрын

Too bad she ended up a lesbian lol

@LaRavachole

5 жыл бұрын

I don't think Ellie's immunity works that way if you consider the possibility that her parents died infected just like everybody else. Plus even if her genes passed on (carrying this immunity), it'd be only a matter of time until someone else's genes took over, fading away said immunity as generations go and also by the time it happens, the world would still be in its deplorable state, making said attempt of repopulating pointless, plus even unsustainable due to the dangerous environment and lack of resources.

@Crysomandiaz

5 жыл бұрын

Whatever happened she would for sure never be able to “father” children.

@Kaos.Theory

5 жыл бұрын

@@Crysomandiaz yeah that word actually gave me the creeps

@TheTiredhermit

5 жыл бұрын

Shamshiro she was already a lesbian lol if u played the DLC you would know

I love the theme provided by Gustavo Santaolalla. I think the minimalist acoustic strings go perfect with the overall atmosphere of the game.

@guccii_daddyy

5 жыл бұрын

i can honestly sit and listen to the music and go outside so it feels like im in tlou. lmao weird but its actually cool

@bigboibubba5528

5 жыл бұрын

@@guccii_daddyy Yeah. It's like it puts a grim filter over the eyes

@guccii_daddyy

5 жыл бұрын

@@bigboibubba5528 yes exactly bro and its calming like i can just chill with it, played tlou when i was 10 so when i listen to the music now its kind of nostalgic

@svgstarlight

5 жыл бұрын

Cosmic Apotheosis gustavo santaolalla is a musical genius. i don’t know how he managed to compose these ambient soundtracks, most of them calm and simple yet convey everything that’s going on in the game. i’m glad that he’s back got part two !!

@amberisrad

4 жыл бұрын

arguably one of the best parts of the game

Also, audio logs suggest that the firefly scientists are quite inept so that also give a more rational view of Joel's choice. Also, the fireflies are quite questionable an organization as well so them having the cure might in a way lead to a dark path. A choice that seems obvious in the first place given more introspection can become very gray indeed.

@danklord4315

5 жыл бұрын

One guy messed with monkeys because he was a prick

@lastmanstanding7155

5 жыл бұрын

Another line of reasoning is it's all kumbaya until you consider what a cure could mean. So many are just like Joel and have done so much both good and bad. If you try to return back to "civilization" then what? How do you cope? Who distributes the cure? What type of hierarchy is made from this? Will people abuse the cure? Sure there may not be any cause for concern from infection but you only need to look to dead rising to see my point. Humanity will still be bad and good. So what's the death of a little girl gonna do?

@ToonCrate

5 жыл бұрын

When Joel was doing CPR to save Ellie, the Firefly soldier's first instinct was to smash him in the head with a rifle. After that, it was clear that their organization didn't deserve trust.

@satinsleeves

5 жыл бұрын

'It's what she'd want. And you know it.' That's what Marlene says to Joel in the final moments of the game. Except, she doesn't know that. She didn't ask Ellie. No one even told Ellie that she'd die during the procedure. Would that have changed her mind? The Fireflies didn't even know if killing Ellie would have worked. They never ran any other sorts of tests nor did they try to look for ways that might extract a cure from Ellie without killing her. Would knowing all of that change Ellie's mind? In the end, I think both Joel and the Fireflies are in a gray area -- doing what they feel is necessary to survive. However, all of that could have been prevented if they just talked to Ellie and found out what she wanted.

@Space_CowboyHD

5 жыл бұрын

Toon Crate Agreed, and I’m glad they didn’t just make the Fireflies your generic good guy resistance. We see firsthand at the start of the game what the fire fly’s are capable of, as they carry forth a bombing in the middle of a safe zone. They remind me a lot of the Freedom faction from STALKER, they mean well, but being so open and accepting to outsiders and outcasts can lead to some less-than desirable members

It was a selfish decision, but a very human one and from a storytelling standard that's the best kind.

@radpunk5144

4 жыл бұрын

That never seemed like an irrational choice to me. Humans are like this.

@godofgamers3884

4 жыл бұрын

@@radpunk5144 you said "Humans are like this." It's still irrational tho. Just cause humans do doesn't magically make it ok.

@radpunk5144

4 жыл бұрын

@@godofgamers3884 Ok

@ATalesTruth-

4 жыл бұрын

It’s wasn’t actually out of selfishness but out of selflessness, think about it given they didn’t given ellie or Joel time to talk about it to rather treat Ellie like a dog and not a human as they put her under before telling her everything, it seems the fire flies are as much in the wrong as Joel, Joel in that moment acted like a father who loved his child, who has suffered to much to see it all lost again, had it been your daughter would you not do the same given they didn’t tell her what could happen and would remove the father from the equation that is more wrong then what Joel had done, If they told Ellie and had her talk about it with Joel, he might have acted differently

@jamaisalma4160

4 жыл бұрын

Its not selfish you dumb dumb its NOT A CURE I repeat ITS NOT A CURE its a vaccine it wont do shit to save 60& of humanity well yes of you have a vaccine you can breave sprose ONLY SPORS but it wont help with gettin eaten alive now will it......no :/

"He who saves a life saves the world entire." Joel was right. Ellie saved his life, and given a second chance to save a child's life, he makes the rational choice and gives her a chance to grow up. He was a good man who had to do bad things to keep her safe. The world had already gone to hell, and even though , she takes him at his word because she knows he cares. 'The Last of Us' literally means the last of us who care, possess a shred of human decency and love in a world that is hostile and dangerous. The sequel never happened.

@Manbit101

Жыл бұрын

No matter how I look it at, I would always sacrifice the world for a person that I love. Humans are selfish in nature and want the best for themselves and the people close to them. Also, the sequel is just a bad dream, it never was real, to begin with

@Alpha1918

Жыл бұрын

Best comment ever

@tiffanywyatt5137

Жыл бұрын

Joel was 100% wrong

@SomeGuyWhoPlaysGames333

Жыл бұрын

@@tiffanywyatt5137If you were in his shoes, you would make the same decision.

@tiffanywyatt5137

Жыл бұрын

@@SomeGuyWhoPlaysGames333 if you were in the fireflies shoes you would of made their decision

Honestly when I played the last of us I was totally on Joels side. I mean yeah the human species is on the line but personally I always figured even if i had the choice I would have done the same thing.

@silverblade357

4 жыл бұрын

What even was the choice? Save the young girl that was never even asked if she was prepared to sacrifice herself or stand aside because the angry militant people with guns threatened you? Joel did what any parent or protector would do.

@thesurvivorssanctuary6561

4 жыл бұрын

@@silverblade357 *This.*

@mateoreyes6921

3 жыл бұрын

Yep His only mistake was to leave witnesses

@mateoreyes6921

3 жыл бұрын

Yep His only mistake was to leave witnesses

@mateoreyes6921

3 жыл бұрын

Yep His only mistake was to leave witnesses

"It is by juxtaposing love among life's tragedies that gives love it's meaning and density." My favorite line in this video, thank you! What makes this so hard for us humans is that we usually benefit from this realization in hindsight. When we are right in the middle of pain and loss, it's hard to reconcile this.

@DanielBMS

5 жыл бұрын

After going through what Joel went through. I do not think I believe humanity deserves to be saved.

what makes The Last Of Us special to me is how well you feel the characters emotions. the music and pretty much everything makes me feel how desperate humans are in this world, no other post-apocalypse game managed to do this to me

Ever since I was little my family has always been about protecting each other. Family would burn the world to save one of their own. Because family is more important than everyone else.

@bennu547

4 жыл бұрын

But everyone else has their own families too

@ethanhudson2009

4 жыл бұрын

@@bennu547 oh i completely understand that. my family still comes first. the people i love come first to me.

Joel did save the world, because to him Ellie *is* the world

@bugmachine777

5 жыл бұрын

lmfao

@patch-fm

5 жыл бұрын

@Moises Hernandez U

@simomon6

5 жыл бұрын

This seems like some shit a fangirl would write on watpad lmao

@lilvro7016

5 жыл бұрын

Zerplin if that’s the case then he didn’t save the world, he saved HIS world world alone at the cost of others

@lilvro7016

4 жыл бұрын

okayalabama not rlly unless ur referring to the commentator of this video, he said that Joel did save the world when he didn’t, the rest of the world is fucked but in a way Joel’s world is saved because he saved Ellie, the commenter said Joel saved the world when he didn’t, he only saved an aspect

The Anime Dr. Stone poses similar interesting moral questions regarding restoring the human race. The whole "saving humanity" masks the real dilemma: WHO do you save? Do you save everyone or only a select group(s)? All people are not morally equal, society could not function if they were. Murders and rapists do not have equal moral weight as innocent children. Joel handing Ellie over would be giving the Fireflies the Moral Authority to dictate the answer to this question.

What Joel did, although it was very emotionally driven, was the logical choice as well. It would have probably been better if he told Ellie the truth, but the build up of everything the Fireflies doing going to shit is pretty self-explanatory. People like to isolate that moment to emotions because it is a very emotional moment in the game, but there's solid reason behind why it was the best option and it can be explained easily. I mean, look at what happened when the Fireflies caught Joel and Ellie in Salt Lake. Joel was trying to resuscitate her and asked for help and he got knocked out. Ellie could have died right then and there. The Fireflies are reckless and stupid, and they don't learn from their mistakes. Even if they had managed to get the cure from Ellie, they definitely would have either used it for power or lost it immediately, maybe both.

@ifacecamp717

5 жыл бұрын

Yep and there was a huge chance it wouldnt even work. The world was 20 years into the apocalypse. They needed to just leave the past in the past and adapt to the new age

@ethanhudson2009

5 жыл бұрын

Yes there is some evidence that the fireflies aren’t the best decision but that moment was obviously written to be as black and white as possible on purpose. If we try and justify what Joel did beyond loving Ellie more than anything, we lose the power of the moment

@ThejollyFrenchman

4 жыл бұрын

To play devil's advocate about the Fireflies in Salt Lake, faking injury is a common method of ambush in the world of The Last of Us, so that particular firefly was probably worried that Joel and Ellie would kill them if they tried to help.

@crypto2633

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThejollyFrenchman eh that's a good point except there was more than 1 firefly....

@godofgamers3884

4 жыл бұрын

Even if it had a 1% chance of working it would still be worth it. Especially considering that Ellie only makes up about 0.0000000143% of the human population

My daughter was 5 months old when I played TLOU, I understood Joel's reasoning right away and I would have done the same without blinking an eye, you can't give up on someone you love that much, that dearly, life would be meaningless without my kid. Maybe that sounds selfish and cruel to other people, but it is what it is. We're human.

@Adrian-yi8fl

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah my son was all grown up by the time I played this game but I didn't think of Joel's decision as controversial at all. You don't kill an innocent girl, nothing would justify it

Bro i love your content. You do such good deep dives

Its been 6 years (I think) since The Last of Us came out. 6 years is a lot of games. But still, The Last of Us remains top dog.

@DreDay2609

5 жыл бұрын

naughty dog

@TreyDZd

4 жыл бұрын

God of War is up there with bein top dog imo

I think Joel's choice was not just the right one from his prospective, but over all. Humanity, at least for dozens of generations, would never get back to pre-apocalypse days. If the vaccine had existed a year or two into the apocalypse, then maybe the damage could have been fixed within a couple of decades at least. But 20+ years later? That damage isn't gonna heal for a very, very long time. Even if they made the vaccine, how would they get it to the remaining people? There are no planes or working boats (as far as I know) in the Last of Us, the best the Fireflies could have done is vaccinate themselves (if they even had the SUPPLIES to make enough of the vaccine for all of the Fireflies) Humanity is at best totally screwed with or without a vaccine, but the best chance is for the human species to natural evolve/develop resistance to the cordecypes

@tiffanywyatt5137

Жыл бұрын

Lol you are objectively wrong. The damage won't heal for long but at least with a cure it could heal.

@stephenswift9896

Жыл бұрын

How is he objectively wrong though, there's literally no way they'd actually be able to distribute the vaccine in any meaningful way, Ellie would be dead so they couldn't just keep making it and considering the resources they probably have it makes complete sense that that shit may just expire. Another thing, what makes you think if they had a cure or vaccine that they would actually help people? It would only take a few people with ideas and that shit would be monopolized.

@tiffanywyatt5137

Жыл бұрын

@@stephenswift9896 the writers could of made it possible

@stephenswift9896

Жыл бұрын

@@tiffanywyatt5137 The writers can make anything possible yes, it's more that such a wildly unrealistic outcome seems out of place for this sort of game to me, while it is a zombie game, it handles the realities of it so well such as primal human nature, scarcity, starvation and the difficulty in recreating how former life was prior.

@waterpillar1977

Жыл бұрын

​@@tiffanywyatt5137no it wouldn't humanity is 20 plus years into the apocalypse the damage is done society completely destroyed

Essentially it boils down to a choice of countless strangers versus the single person you hold dear. If I was in Joel's shoes I would have easily put Ellie above everyone else and done what he did. Is that selfish? Absolutely! I'll never say it isn't. Is it not also selfish though to demand others give and sacrifice selflessly? There is no right or wrong answer to this situation, and I wouldn't put it on even my worst enemy.

@beardalaxy

5 жыл бұрын

Selfishness is something that is oddly looked down upon in society. I remember that being hammered into me in grade school and it nearly ended up killing me. It can be very good to be selfish. Also interesting to note is that it isn't a "save Ellie and kill several people or let Ellie die and cure the world" scenario, it's more like "save Ellie and have people try to kill me because of it or let her die and possibly lead to a cure that might be used by a malfunctioning organization in vain." The correct option in that scenario is very clear.

@SSPspaz

5 жыл бұрын

I’d argue that the Fireflies acted selfishly as well. They were about to operate on (and murder) an innocent teenage girl without giving her a choice, or even having the decency to tell her. Why? Because the ends justified the means to them. They thought nothing of taking someone else’s life away, just for a slight chance they could have THEIR vaccine. They’re not the good guys here, and frankly, even if they were able to develop a vaccine, they’d likely leverage it to grow their own power.

@lindthechaoticheretic8708

5 жыл бұрын

@@SSPspaz Exacatacaly.

I'm surprised that Nier gestalt/replicant wasn't mentioned here. The game before automata tackled a similar theme, except that the utilitarian/hedonist dilemma was answered by the character early on and you basically kill just about anything and everything (and even "children") to get your daughter back. just as usual, nice vid tho.

My issue with this video's argument Max is your assumption that letting Ellie die for the cure to the Fireflies is the utilitarian option. The Fireflies beat up Joel twice when he tried to drop her off. Already he has no reason to like them. Especially when the cure and procedure process is not laid out to him and he is told straight up they are going to kill her during the surgery. Not only is he right to be angry but it shows how irresponsible and evil the Fireflies are. They are convinced she is the cure and within a day of having her they immediately set off to KILL her during surgery. No extended procedure or extensive testing? No running it by her and him first? It is murder for a cure they have no guarantee off for a theoretical fungal based disease. He did nothing wrong. And he isn't a murderer. The doctors are the murderers and he has no other option to get pass the surgeon in the room. Plus the game gives you the option to use stealth to get pass the firefly guards so you don't have to kill anyone but the doctor if you so choose. Great video essay but you misunderstand the details that make the backdrop. I would have done the same as Joel did. But in a different more black and white scenario where killing a loved one was the only way to save humanity my answer would be harder to find. I think I would sacrifice them knowing it would hurt a lot. Or maybe not. But in the specific scenario laid out by the Last of Us. I would not let them touch Ellie.

tbh i don't think most of us would have gotten as far as joel did

The world took everything from Joel so Joel took everything from the world

@Itszahia

4 жыл бұрын

Daniel Riley great way to put it

That data from Life is Strange i would assume is inaccurate. It doesn't take into consideration whether it was 1st, 3rd or 10th playthrough. I wish they collect only 1st playthrough decisions data. Most people will honestly go through the game, blind, on their first playthrough, and then they will look for some walkthrough and will soil tha data.

I might be wrong in my reasoning, plus english isn't my first language so I might have missed a few things. But from what I understood, you argue that if we had gone through the same things Joel did, we would have made the same choice. While I agree with that statement, I believe that since we (as beings) are the sum of our experiences, if we had gone through the same things Joel did (loss of a daughter, survival through any mean, etc...), we would essentially be Joel. We would project our feelings of fatherhood onto Ellie and protect her the same way he did. That's the problem I have with your argument. I feel like you're saying "if you were Joel, you'd have acted like Joel." And of course, we would, because we would be Joel. But someone who would be Ellie's bodyguard instead of Joel but who wouldn't have lost a child, or would be more detached, or anything really, could/would have acted another way. Since I'm a bit of nitpicker, I'll also add that your argument about Life is Strange bothers me a bit. In the context of the Last of Us, your argument puts us in Joel's shoes, meaning in the universe of the game. But for Life Is Strange, we made those choices from an outside perspective. We won't suffer the consequences, we're just experiencing the story. I made the choice to save Chloe, not because I particularly like her, but because I liked the people of Arcadia Bay even less. But as soon as the game is over, I just have to turn it off for it not to matter anymore. That also allows us players to experiment to make a choice we wouldn't do in real life, just to see what would happen, out of pure curiosity. Anyway, that's all of my rambling, and I'd be greatly interested to know what you think of all this. I really like your content, and appreciate your take on all the topics you talk about (even on the rare cases where I don't agree with your opinion). I'll be here to watch more of your videos, keep up the good work ! :) Edit : typos & diplomacy

Say whatever you like about Joel, I loved that character and that game

I have never considered the choice of saving Ellie from the fireflies to be immoral, irrational, or even morally gray, it was the right thing to simply because of one factor: Consent. Ellie never gave hers. and no, "she would have wanted to", does not count as consent. You wake Ellie up, you ask her. End of story. You can argue Joel went too wild about it, killing people he could have spared, but that's the extent of it. Up until now he was doing okay. For me the most powerful moment in the game was never the hospital rescue, because given the circumstances, and given the choices you had, that was the right thing to do at the time. However, it was Joel lying to Ellie afterwards that was seared into my mind. The lie exposed the self serving part of Joel's decision beyond any doubt (although you can argue that him killing Marlene and the conversation with her was the first instance of that). It was at that moment that Joel sealed the deal for humanity. Had he sat Ellie down, explained everything to her, and offered to take her back IF SHE CHOOSES TO, then Joel's actions at the hospital would have been completely recontextualized. Instead, he lies out of fear that Ellie chooses to sacrifice herself. For me that was the only morally ambiguous choice: whether to give Ellie the choice of sacrifice herself for the greater good, knowing she most likely WOULD, or taking that choice away from her so that you don't have to bear the pain of losing her. I think everything that was said in this video applies to this decision, even more so that the one at the hospital. And Therein lies my problem with how part 2 handled the conflict between Joel and Ellie, because it makes one narrative decision that takes away all the nuance, weight and consequence of Joel's lie: The only one who could make a vaccine was the surgeon, and the surgeon was killed by Joel. Therefore, everything that transpired afterwards was inconsequential to the story: The conversation with Marlene, had Joel not killed Marlene, or accepted her rationale and surrendered Ellie to her, it would be inconsequential. Whether or not Joel Told Ellie the Truth later and gave her the choice, would be inconsequential. Ellie is also completely absolved of any moral implication for accepting Joel's story despite her knowing it was a lie. The whole thing with dooming the world now sounds like a cruel stroke of fate. Yes it is still a result of Joel's actions, but it would have more thematically consistent if it was a result of Joel's decision to keep Ellie alive by concealing the truth from her, rather his decision to kill the surgeon, which stemmed from Joel being in a fit of rage, in fight or flight mode, and had no thematic significance to it.

Frigging amazing video man. It's crazy how many emotions this game brings up in me after playing it multiple times and having watched tons of videos on it. I would've thought I'd be desensitized by now but I still feel the same emotions I did upon beating it for the first time

Beautiful, surreal, haunting, depressing, soul-crushing, tear-jerking, personality-changing... The Last of Us is ALL of the above.

@joltster109

5 жыл бұрын

I want a daughter thanks to this game... So yes. It definitely changed me

I always took it that Ellie knew he was lying to her. But she decided to accept it. Maybe she doesn't know the extent of what he's done, but I think she made the connection. Doesn't make his lie less bad though. That's the thing. I agree with what he did and why he did it. And yes, I would do the same for my little girl. The what he did wasn't the "bad thing". The lie was.

@Micheal93k

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah she knew he lied. She still loves him but she can't really count on him anymore.

@kevjumba8359

5 жыл бұрын

@@Micheal93k she can count on him to give everything for her, just not tell the truth.

@Micheal93k

5 жыл бұрын

@@kevjumba8359 she might as well had went with David then.

@kevjumba8359

5 жыл бұрын

@@Micheal93k yeah she doesn't wanna get raped though

I'm just gonna say this: The Last of Us will remain as one of my life-changing games.

While I agree with the conclusion that we would all (likely anyway, but possibly for different reasons perhaps) do what Joel did in that situation, the decision does lack a bit of foresight on Joel's part in a way that isn't really discussed often enough: Being a survivor in the post apocalypse is the opposite of a comfortable existence as we know it. So while Joel may have saved Ellie because he loved her, because he hated humanity, because he couldn't stand to lose all over again (or any mixture of the three), he has in doing so potentially damned her to an existence of suffering and hopelessness in a landscape devoid of meaning other than survival in a world devoid of this thin veil that keeps us from ripping each other to shreds on a magnificent scale (debatable, sure) we call "modern civilization." Just a thought. I'm sure Frankl would disagree with my assessment but...meh.

@datrippster7633

5 жыл бұрын

I would still wanna save the person I love instead 🤷‍♂️

@ethanmichaelcrane934

5 жыл бұрын

@@datrippster7633 I think that's true of all of us, and faced with that decision, I think we would all be Joel. I'm just saying that sometimes the cure is worse than the disease, so to speak.

@datrippster7633

5 жыл бұрын

Ethan Michael Crane agreed.

@ifacecamp717

5 жыл бұрын

Her life could have importance by playing a role in repairing the world or something

@theitalianbalddude1070

5 жыл бұрын

Ethan Michael Crane welll would humanity change if Ellie was sacrificed would they change there ways would the army and government stop being brutal. No at least not for a while the infected would still be a problem yeah they would not have numbers but they would still be a threat and would actually be a bigger threat as they all start to become blisters unless organized attacks were planned and carried out

Nicely done Max. Love thinking about stuff like this

Number one: If you read the lore pickups in the hospital, it is heavily implied that Ellie is not IMMUNE. Her body simply has some defense that greatly slows the spread of the fungal infection. She is not immune, therefore, is not a host for a cure. This canon logic is used as an incredibly weak fanfic justification by some for as to why she goes batshit in TLOU2. As far as Im concerned, that game doesn't exist. Number two: Ever seen Children of Men? At one point Theo says to his best friend "Even if they discovered the cure..., it doesn't matter. It's too late. The world went to shit." Even if this small group of fringe doctors are able to use Ellie's brain to produce a vaccine, how much would a vaccine help at this point? Do they even have the facilities to mass-produce it? Being immune to the fungal infection won't stop anyone from being torn apart by a pack of clickers. Being immune from the fungal infection won't stop your neighboring tribe of human survivors from murdering your clan and stealing your resources. The hope in Ellie as a vector for vaccine is misplaced at every level. Joel made the objectively correct choice. Fuck Neil Cuckmann.

@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722

Жыл бұрын

Is it possible that the doctors who wanted to quit were killed by the Fireflies? I ask this because I bitterly remind you that in the same year this game was released we had Injustice where Superman executed Shazam and attempted to murder the Flash for questioning his authority. That's right in 2013 we were given two villains in two different games where apparently quitting will earn you death without hesitation because you question "the right thing to do" and like Superman with Shazam, the Fireflies would call Ellie "an acceptable loss"

Joel's decision to pull her out of there can actually be presented as entirely rational, even necessary. As I recall, it is at least implied that Ellie does not know that the procedure will be fatal for her. Consider for a second what it would have been like if Ellie (14) had been told clearly and up-front that the procedure would be fatal. She is of an age where she is capable of understanding concepts such as death and sacrifice. She is of an age where she is capable of making an informed decision, but crucially not considered old enough to sign contracts or give informed consent for a medical procedure. There are actually plenty of contemporary legal cases surrounding teens petitioning for the right to overrule parents/guardians/doctors to either refuse or gain access to medical procedures over the objections of the adults involved. It is a tricky area. Exceptions to bodily autonomy often are. Had she been given all the options and opted to sacrifice herself, then it would have been quite the conundrum for Joel to either support her decision or overrule it. Very much what is outlined in your video. That she was not making an informed decision, however, changes that. Now, it is Joel's _duty_ as her acting guardian to get her out of there. Guardians are meant to be advocates for their charges. They are meant to look after their best interests, even above the interests of others. Putting a stop to the procedure can be seen as entirely rational and utilitarian in this light. Utilitarian when you consider not only the proximate consequences, but also the precedent. You could argue that this is just a way to smuggle deontology in the back door of utilitarianism, but I would argue that this approach actually helps smooth out the ripples we create in our lives when we naturally operate on neither a purely utilitarian nor deontological basis. What this doesn't do, however, is sort out his decision to lie to her afterwards. Nor does it sort out why we all killed the doctors during the rescue (we all did, right? right? I'm not alone here, am I?) A more optimal option given the circumstances may have been for her to get her out of there, leaving the medical team alive and facilities intact. Then, a safe distance away, he could lay out the decision to Ellie and come to an informed decision. If she opted to sacrifice herself and convinced him to accede to her wishes, she could have returned and they could have proceeded. That door wouldn't have been shut ... .. which, given the argument presented in the video, would explain rather nicely the decision made for us of Joel lying to Ellie as well as the decision we made ourselves (all of us, right? ) to kill the medical team. The emotional need not only to shut that door but to smash things as well. Smashey smashey.

@SSPspaz

5 жыл бұрын

David Desoer, great comment. I’ve made many of these same arguments over the years. Although I totally didn’t kill the medical team - only the one that pulled a scalpel on me haha. I think primarily Joel lied because he was ashamed of his motives. While there is absolutely a rational case for his actions, I still think Joel was acting largely out of emotion - and he had 20+ years of emotions bottled up since Sarah died that all came pouring out. And typical of hard men, they want to keep those emotions hidden away. Ironically, if he’d explained to Ellie his decision and let her know about the lies of the Fireflies, Ellie probably would’ve likely understood and accepted it.

Putting that life is strange example made remember something that i thought before sacrificing Arcadia bay. I remember thinking " i would save a person worth a town than a town not worth that person" i know that Arcadia bay had a lot of good people,but none of them are worth what Chloe meant to me, to the main character. I am a person that likes to get in a character's brain and be like them while i play , so when i played Tlou i got this feeling when i knew that Ellie was gonna be killed . It was like a stake going through my heart, so when i got to the operation room i killed all the doctors there out of pure hate for them and pure love for Ellie . Tlou gave a feeling that no other game ever gave me, i felt like i am Ellie's father and it my duty to keep her safe no matter what, to not let anything bad ever get to her . I tried justifying Joel's decision in a outsider's view and no matter how i put it Joel is always wrong , but when i put myself in Joel's boots everything became justified in a weird fashion, it's like emotions that can't be put in words, it's in your heart and you can feel it but can't communicate it . It is the only game that made me feel this way and i appreciate that.

I can understand of what joel did. He took on Ellie as a daughter and it would kill him to see her die. However, though selfish, it wouldnt bring humanity back to point before the fungus spread, whereas sacrificing Chloe would result in stopping the destruction of the town. The world of Last of Us would still be in tatters whether or not Joel would sacrifice Ellie. All you can about that sacrifice is that it may potentially reduce one threat. The infection of the fungus. So I couldnt fault Joel for his action in saving his surrogate daughter

@SSPspaz

5 жыл бұрын

Red, if I recall, the term used by the Fireflies was “vaccine” not “cure”. Which means even if their plans for Ellie worked, there would be no saving those already infected with Cordyceps. Only vaccinating the healthy to keep the fungus from spreading. So to “fix” the world, they’d still need to formulate a vaccine from Ellie, distribute it to survivors everywhere, and finally purge the world of the infected. That’s a pretty tall order, and the chances of all those things happening are slim to none. It’s not as if sacrificing Ellie is guaranteed to solve anything whatsoever. There are records of the Fireflies attempting (and failing) such operations before. This might indicate that there are others who are immune and the Fireflies’ doctors were simply incompetent. Joel made the human choice, which makes for a wonderful character arc considering he’d “lost his humanity” decades earlier.

There are so many analyses, papers and videos about The Last of Us, but there's always something to add or discuss. It's really something, ain't it? Also, thanks for adding something new.

I'd like to think I would have given Ellie the choice. If Marlene had proposed that idea instead of what she did, then Ellie probably sacrifices herself and Joel doesn't massacre the Fireflies.

Another point many people forget when discussing this choice is there is a piece of intel in the last level that points out the doctors have already sacrificed many other immune people in search of a cure. It also states that after all of that sacrifice, they are still not truly sure a cure is even possible. While there is no guarantee that Joel would have seen this bit of information, it is still interesting to bring up in discussions about what we as the players think we would do in Joel's situation.

When I played the game, I always interpreted Joel’s choice as directly tied to Joel losing Sarah earlier in his life. I read it as, having already lost a daughter before and having carried that grief for 20 years, if he had to do it again, it would’ve just totally killed or ended him. Considering the choice without Sarah’s loss and still considering the pros of the choice is thought provoking.

You should absolutely play NieR Gestalt. Edit: to clarify, this is no doubt my favorite channel on YT right now. Haven't found anyone who would value narrative and thematical depth in video games and also give such concise analysis. I'm highly recommending to explore NieR Gestalt, because it predates TLoU and NieR Automata, but sets the groundwork for both games, while exploring its own multitude of themes, albeit more subtly than N:A. It might be a tougher nut to analyse. The story is of a loving father doing absolutely everything he can to save his daughter. But in this world, as the game's back cover says "Nothing is as it seems...". You can absolutely expect some N:A level twists and more tragedy than in TLoU. It also features multiple "routes", and later on from gameplay perspective it might be a bit painful to go through them to get a different ending, and unlocking the last 2 requires you to collect every weapon in the game, but from a narrative perspective it works perfectly, so it's absolutely worth it to experience every ending by yourself.

@timeforamazingchest5271

5 жыл бұрын

THIS

Haven't watched yet, but yes. We would have. There is only so much loss a man can take

Damn hard to believe this game came out 6 years ago, never played it but I feel like I was watching the first let’s plays just 2 or 3 years ago

Man keep this excellent content rolling! I don't think there's another channel on KZread quite like what you have here.

I can't wait for Part 2.. An expansion I'd *love* to see is the story of Joel immediately after the death of Sarah, and how he and Tommy survived those first few years. How did he come to the decision to *not* end it all? That would be a fantastically grim and heavy story..

@tylercouture216

4 жыл бұрын

exactly everyone wants that I don't like that they jumped 20 wholes years into the future domefrom. the first time I played the game I wanted a dlc for the post years of the outbreak

@samurai6331

4 жыл бұрын

LightningInvoker So part 2 officially released a month ago, any final verdicts on the game?

@LightingInvoker

4 жыл бұрын

@@samurai6331 I haven't finished it yet, but so far it's very good. An emotional rollercoaster

@samurai6331

4 жыл бұрын

LightningInvoker Nice, coming from me who finished the game. With all the backlash it had, it’s nowhere near as bad as people say it is, but it’s also nowhere near as good as people says. I gave the game overall a B Letter Grade.

@LightingInvoker

4 жыл бұрын

@@samurai6331 I don't see why people would think it's *bad* but I also haven't read any reviews. There are definitely things I don't like about it; specifically how we have to kill the dogs, and I was soo upset when Glimmer died lol. And I don't like how the go-to default is murder. I know it's the point and theme of the game but it still irritated me. The one scene in particular that I'm referring to is Ellie in Seattle when she's alone and runs into the group of 4 people trying to escape Issac in one of the apartments she's searching. Reading all the notes Ellie would know Issac is a VIP within the Wolves, the people say "tell Issac we're not going back!". There should have been an option to talk to them and get information. But no, it jumped right into them attacking and Ellie having to kill all of them. That irritated me.

Aaand part 2 is throwing everything out of the window

Amazing video. Thanks for going so deep into his experience perspective.

You are so well spoken its beautiful. I absolutely adored this video and I wanna say thank you for putting in the effort to make this video happen. I appreciate ya man, bless up baby bee

Very enjoyable video

I was always sure I would have done what Joel does. No question about it.

Amazing video! You couldn’t have explained this any better than you already have 👏👏👏

@maxderrat

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks homie!

Another great video as always, Max! You deserve much more subs and views

Lisa the painful has a lot of the same themes I'd love to see you do an analysis on it

@patch-fm

5 жыл бұрын

@Pr1kly: The Pretentious Prick Yes but actually no

Title: We would have done what Joel did Normal people: kills innocent doctors THEN does what joel did

@ChrisHops22

4 жыл бұрын

I only killed the one standing in my way and that was because he pulled a scalpel on me (I wanted to just square button him to scare him or knock him out though). The other two standing by the walls I let go.

@GURGLEGUY12345

4 жыл бұрын

I tried everything I could to get the doctor out of the way nonlethally. My last resort was stunning him with a brick to the face. Dude took it like a champ, didn't even flinch. It was honestly hilarious.

@thesurvivorssanctuary6561

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, they weren't innocent. They were complicit in attempted murder.

Great video dude! Your study and narration of Joel’s actions was well done Keep it up

It's an impossible question Max Derrat... to really put ourselves in Joel's shoes, feeling how he felt... without going through all those experiences... and then 'potentially' saving a world of strangers whom in the game... most were horrible... so much thought would go into just the act of contemplate this... and still end up without an answer... (either way regrets would follow). Personally, I would very likely have done what he did after playing the game (& part 2)... and then lived a life regretting those series of choices as well...

No, it was not irrational for Joel to save Ellie. Allowing a child to be murdered to potentially save lives is neither feasible nor moral. A future built on the corpses of innocents is not a future worth living in.

Do you know what that cure really represents? Power. No one likes to give up power. No one willfully surrenders power. If you think the conflict and struggle in the world of the Last of Us is terrible, then consider the greater conflict and struggle that would ensue from a group obtaining the cure to save the human race. Ironically, Ellie's death would've only doomed the human race to an even worse fate.

@Micheal93k

5 жыл бұрын

There is plenty of room for improvement. There is always someone that can make a bad situation out of a good thing shouldn't stop us from trying. But the opposite is possible too. The alternative is for things to stay how they are. People constantly dying with no improvement in sight. As long as there's still people who haven't given up, things can get better.

Your videos have never made me question so much. Thank you

You hit every nail on the head, Max. And in a much more concise video than most of those bloated theory video essays on KZread. Well done! "Life isn't light but the light that shines in the darkness." - Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (paraphrased)

Look man I’m just a kid and even I wouldn’t let my kid go I would protect the hell out of them

Joel chose to do what everyone would want to do. The most human thing possible. Amazing.

Amazing job man. Always glad to hear new takes on such a wonderful game.

Selfishness is in our nature. If I were to be in that situation I don´t know what I would do, but if I dared to choose sacrificing that who I love for the greater good then I would probably die with it, because finding other reasons to live is not easy

Nier: Automata!?!?! Jeez.. That game was (still is) an amazing ride. Movement system? Amazing Combat? Amazing Story? Amazing I wish I didn't sell my PS4 and games.. oof

Loving your daughter is better than saving a loveless world

@zawarudo8991

Жыл бұрын

It‘s a beautyfull story in that regard.

Fast pace talking , great pronunciation. No stumbling and it made sense i have watched 3 of your vids already. Like it

@maxderrat

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Jared! It's good to know that my current format is one that people like. :)

Excellent video Max! This game truly is a marvel!

It amazes me to this day some people still call Joel selfish saying he took away Ellie’s choice yadda yadda yadda lol the fireflies did that by not waking her up and explaining the procedure. Then they tried to kill Joel. They lost. That’s what it boils down to. Had they peacefully handed Ellie over the doctor didn’t need to die. Also I say it was actually a selfless act not a selfish one. The man literally risked his own life to save the life of an innocent. Just because he benefits emotionally from her surviving does not make it selfish. By that logic the fireflies were also selfish because even though they are trying to “save the world” I would say they are only doing it because they know their own lives will improve moving forward.

@Good_Boy_3000

Жыл бұрын

The thing is... There's no reason to kill Ellie to get the Cordyceps with modern medical advances. Brain biopsies exist. Craniotomies exist. Hemispherectomies exist. All without killing the patient. Either the Fireflies aren't equipped to properly perform these procedures Or Jerry isn't qualified to perform said procedures. He's also not a pathologist, nor a mycologist. Them finding a cure from killing Ellie is like buying a single lottery ticket expecting to win. Yes there's a chance on the technical sense, but it's so slim, it might as well be non existent.

@zawarudo8991

Жыл бұрын

Especially Twitter is having a meltdown rn. Someone posted some wholesome pic with "joel and sarah reunited in heaven", QRt‘s and comments are hundreds of people spammin "HAHAHAHA mF BuRnInG iN hElL". So many people demonize Joel and completely get bits of the story wrong. Sh*t like "he killed a whole hospital full of docs and nurses/ he doomed the world", no he killed the doc that held him at knife point, the nurses in the room are completely optional npc‘s, the world was already f*cked. "he killed hundreds if Innocents" where the F do they get this stuff from? Clearly none of em played the game (or payed any attention for that matter). They prolly see joel in the pic and go "Cis white male bad!". Then there this Quote-Retweet with 27k likes that spouts the same BS and ratio‘d the main tweet that only hat 700 likes. Twitter is breeding ground for miserable people.

Ellie will definitely find out. It's too prominent for them to pass on.

@maxderrat

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I don't see how the lie can just be left to stand.

@dclxvi_89

5 жыл бұрын

@@maxderrat it's a catalyst for a free number of options to do anything with the narrative too

@TheTiredhermit

5 жыл бұрын

She already know

@TheTiredhermit

5 жыл бұрын

Remember when joel said “I SWEAR” when u look at her u can tell she knows he’s lying

Ngl I was fucking relentless with my murdering of the fireflies no cap nothing but head shots, executions,and hardly being shot

This is just pure perfection man. Thank you!

Also, are we sure that fireflies would distribute the cure to everyone or just keep it for themselves?

@Dragonzord571

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't even fix anything that would matter. The world is still in shambles regardless.

@cockroachv

Жыл бұрын

Asking the wrong things. Even if you know for an absolute fact that your daughter dying will save the earth and everything will be fine, would you kill her?

@zawarudo8991

Жыл бұрын

Thing is, while spores wouldn‘t be dangerous to breathe in anymore, there still millions of clickers and bloaters around that tear apart anything that moves. The fungus has won. People never talk about that for some reason.

@zawarudo8991

Жыл бұрын

@@cockroachv Loveless sociopaths say yes.

I think something you're missing is that the human race was already doomed in this game. There is no saving them. Civilization is gone. Sacrificing Ellie would not have fixed the world, it's too late for that Why Sacrifice Ellie to save a world that is already gone? That would be illogical

@dabossman5650

5 жыл бұрын

Rogerthat 1989 Thats not true-it can be rebuilt with a cure but the question is would they have got one-considering the tapes-they seem quite inept

@elderrusty541

5 жыл бұрын

Da Bossman not to mention, if you’re the government, and the people who have spent their whole time killing your soldiers, would you trust them when they say they have a cure to the disease? I wouldn’t, I’d be like “y’all killed how many people? I ain’t trusting you bitch!”

@austinrogers61

5 жыл бұрын

@@dabossman5650 My interpretation of the game is that the cure wouldn't save humanity, or at the very least that's have Joel sees it. The damage has already been done. The government is nonexistent besides some soldiers guarding the few camps left. There are cannibals and raiders across the country. You can't turn murderers into citizens. Even if they were able to get a cure from Ellie, which you rightly say doesn't seem likely as they have tried before, a cure would not rebuild society or make people civilized again. I thought one of the points of the game is that the people in that world had largely lost their humanity, including Joel. Meeting Ellie brings Joel back from the brink, but he still is a murderer. Do you think Joel or the other characters in the game could ever go back to a civilized life? Even if they could, it would take many decades to rebuild, which could be done without a cure.

@dabossman5650

5 жыл бұрын

Rogerthat 1989 I feel like the point Is he loves her too much to risk it-especially as it’s also pretty likely for them to fail and her to die for nothing

@tylercouture216

4 жыл бұрын

reguardless a recording was removed from the game that until they day I can't find a article about it

Insanely good video!!

Max, I am a big fan of your channel. Can I suggest you do a video (or several) of Dark Souls philosophy and deeper meaning? I think you are the right person for that

Come on dude, dont make me play it again😂😂

@SFTCEdits

4 жыл бұрын

I know right i already beat is 7 times and this video makes me wan to play again😂

Who else was shocked when they found out people dislike Joel?

@jaredmartin7040

5 жыл бұрын

Thats like people who dislike Rick Grimes, crazy shit

@OutlawKING111

4 жыл бұрын

He's an anti-hero.

@jane1975

Жыл бұрын

@@OutlawKING111 Yes he is, but some don't see that and just dismiss him as a toxic white male and deserved to be killed. Severus Snape in the Harry Potter books/films is also an Anti Hero.

The world took everything from him So he took everything from the world

This is ending is so misunderstood. Refreshing to see a decent analysis.

I was on Joels side when I played the game the very first time. The fungus may have been what caused society's order to collapse, but the inhumanity of the world Joel lived in came from humans themselves. Ellie represented hope and humanity, not because she was immune but because of her character. And to Joel she especially represented humanity because he loved her like his daughter. Apart from that, the Fireflies were fucking morons, they had not the faintest idea about how to create a cure from Ellies brain or whatever. They were a cult getting people hooked on some vague construct of hope in order to exert control over them. Sacrificing Ellie to this delusion would have ruined the game for me.

@johnalvarez2822

5 жыл бұрын

Also who and how would they even distribute a "cure" which to be honest is probably just going to be a vaccine of some kind. Tell the body to kill the fungus before it grows on the brain It'd probably be something similar to rabies where if you're starting to show symptoms it's too late for you. The so called "cure" is no cure at all it is a preventative measure meant to stop the rest of humanity from being infected everyone who already have the fungus growing on/in their brain it's too late for the runners, stalkers, clickers, and bloaters. You're saving what's left of humanity which was already doomed, but with groups like David, Hunters, fireflies(who'd sooner knock someone out than provide assistance to the person they're giving CPR to basically they'd be fine letting a young girl die) and even the tyrannical military do people think they'd stop what they're doing for a cure? Why would they ? Society and civilization is too far gone for any "cure", vaccine, or suppressant to be of any use.

Joel did nothing wrong at the end of the first game. Even assuming that a vaccine could be made, it changes fuck all about the current state of the world and it's in the hands of a dubious organization that didn't even uphold their end of the deal after delivering Ellie. The Fireflies deserved what they got. Joel did the correct thing.

I can’t stop laughing at that NPC running across the screen at 1:36 😂

The game and your narrative. Brought tears to my eyes, remembering the feelings I had when I played the game. I have a daughter, and I totally get Joel's feelings.

You gotta wonder how an 'age of media consumerism' regular-type dude would fare against these morally trying situations. Wish Joel had the level of abstraction of youtube binging smarypants with some degree of Dostoievsky in 'em.

@mrbazooka6635

5 жыл бұрын

What?....

It’s a masterpiece, To bad the second game shits all over the main characters and kills Joel just to start a fucking stupid revenge plot.

Your channel, is.... finally Me... with the artistic ability to paint the canvas...

Cool video!! i like the thought put into it. TLOU really is a great game!!

Humanity took his Daughter away from him. He took the cure away from humanity. Get rekt humanity!

know thyself, be infertile, and leave a silent earth after ye

Waw what a video.. thank you Max!!

@maxderrat

5 жыл бұрын

Thank YOU! :D

I noticed several comments about Ellie's immunity of wether or not letting her live or killing her gave humanity the greatest chance to survive so here's my thought on it. Immunity passed from parent to child fades slowly over several generations. However this rule applies to viruses and infections like the Black Plague, Spanish Influenza, and Smallpox as these viruses have a 'shelf life' inside the body. This means if a person is infected and if they survive or have a natural immunity eventually the virus slowly dies out inside their body until there's nothing left. However when the Fireflies show Joel X-rays of Ellie's head it shows that the fungus has grown around her brain and is still there. If the fungal infection had a shelf life then over the months between her getting bitten and her and Joel making it to the Fireflies camp the fungus would have died out as her body slowly destroyed. This means that Ellie is still actively infected with the fungus however her body is actively and constantly producing antibodies to to keep it under control and likely to also keep her from passing it on to others. This means Ellie will be infected her entire life and any children she or other women like her may have will immediately become infected in the womb but with both the mothers immunity and developing with the virus it is almost a guarantee the child will be immune as well. And this immunity won't fade over time as they're permanently infected.