This is literally exactly how Squadrons’ combat system works.

@jacobhunter6891

3 жыл бұрын

I know. When I skirt the belly of a Star Destroyer, I feel *exactly* like Poe in The Last Jedi

@SineN0mine3

3 жыл бұрын

Star Wars: Star Fighter (2001) had this concept, you can shoot torpedoes through shields but if your fly inside the shield you can shoot the ship's directly with your lasers

@dc010203040506

3 жыл бұрын

Ew gay

@lionofnaples

3 жыл бұрын

@@dc010203040506 fuck off

@Goldsrc17

3 жыл бұрын

@@lionofnaples no u

“Nothing can get through our shields” *smash cut to anakin getting through the shields*

@Janoha17

4 жыл бұрын

He got in through the main hangar, which only has atmosphere-retaining shields, which are designed to have ships pass through unhindered.

@pupulauls

4 жыл бұрын

J17 yeah and they thought no one was crazy enough to blow it up from the inside

@Janoha17

4 жыл бұрын

@@pupulauls Those generators were put in with the extra weapons.

@literallyabigfoot3159

3 жыл бұрын

That's a good trick.

@ignazioacerenza9881

3 жыл бұрын

wait....that's illegal!

I'm just still bugged that the Supremacy's turbolaser shots curve.

@eggboi5982

3 жыл бұрын

Never thought of that lol

@kartupelitish1903

3 жыл бұрын

maybe they were bit affected by the gravity of the planet that they were near

@eggboi5982

3 жыл бұрын

Probably locked onto the ship either way it really doesn’t matter

@aaronvialpando8023

3 жыл бұрын

@@kartupelitish1903 thats what I always thought. Almost every issue in star wars from a visual perspective can be explained by a simple headcanon. Such as there being a substantial gravity well near by that effects lazer shots.

@jacobfischer3016

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaronvialpando8023 @Lechuks Hofmanis That's what I thought as well, that is was gravity, even though there's not really any planet nearby. I was wondering if it could be possible scientifically, so I tried to calculate the gravity strength. By knowing how big the Supremacy is and using the shot at 0:33 , The distance between the ships is about 44km. Although it seems to look further in other shots. By timing it, it seems to take about 1.75seconds for the bolts to reach the Raddus. By comparing sizes I found that the arc of the shots seem to rise and fall about 3 km. Although it was pretty hard to tell. So that means that the bolts are dropping about 3 km in half of the total time, that being 0.875 seconds. This gives an acceleration of about 8000 m/s^2 That means that there would have to be an object below the ships with a gravity over 800 times stronger than the earth or 30 times stronger than the Sun.

0:33 There's a very simple, physics reason for this. Particle beam weapons that use charged particles, which we know turbolasers do, because they fire plasma, suffer from rapid beam diversion due to like charges repelling each other. Thus, the shots rapidly spread out and lose effectiveness. This is why SW ships have to get close to fire.

@stephenathon

4 жыл бұрын

@Finn Carlson I guess they figured in the gravitational pull of surrounding bodies to explain the arc of the lasers.

@scelonferdi

4 жыл бұрын

That applies even to lasers. The photon flow in a laser is NEVER paralel. So there will always be a length at which it is only good to give you a sunburn. IIRC it's always going down by 1/r^2 only the koefficient changes with better bundling.

@davidthomas2870

4 жыл бұрын

@Finn Carlson I figured they might be projecting a highly elliptical magnetic field out in front of the weapon. We see the shots sort of hook in at the last second to strike the sides and top of the Raddus' shields, so that would be the far end of the ellipse. Probably to help guide shots in and keep the plasma together, and you would make it so that the furthest you project the field out would be as a far as you can keep that plasma bolt together. At short range the path would appear flat but the longer the range, the more pronounce the arcing effect. There is basically no evidence for this I know of, so this is speculation on my part.

@GamingPaladin

3 жыл бұрын

And yet they're capable of orbital bombardment, which necessarily means ranges MUCH longer than the couple of kilometers this would have us believe.

@lenkagamine4145

3 жыл бұрын

@@GamingPaladin Ranges effective against unshielded targets at much longer ranges, yes. But NOT ranges effective against *shielded* targets at much longer ranges. Turbolasers are still quite powerful enough to devastate unshielded targets even far past their 'effective' range.

In star wars, there are two main types of shielding technology: Particle shielding and Ray shielding. Particle shielding - good against physical objects (ie fightercraft, mass drivers, etc.) Ray shielding - good against energy weaponry (turbolasers, lasers, beams, etc.) The reason the Raddis most likely did not have both is because, while this wasn't uncommon for warships of its era, particle shielding and ray shielding on the same vessel was very power intensive and expensive overall to put on capitalships. The deathstar II and Scariff Facility had both because they had more than sufficient energy sources and were funded by the industrially nationalized Galactic Empire, whereas the Gungans, a swamp dwelling civilization with minimal funds and small portable shields only used ray shielding at the battle of Naboo, and why the not fully militarized trade federation only had ray shielding as well. Alternatively, you can't (at least in Star Wars) give a beam of energy the ability to distinguish between friend and foe, so even if the Raddis had particle shielding (which it may have, I don't know) it may have been turned off either to launch fighters, or it could've been off in order to conserve power. Hope this info helps! :D

@tntsummers926

5 жыл бұрын

Or maybe speed can brute force through it, but how would that would work is unknown to me.

@rohanhalle580

5 жыл бұрын

Maybe that's why fighters were able to enter the Raddus' shield bubble, because the shield power was diverted to protecting against the turbo lasers with a Ray Shield and the command staff believed that fighters, once launched would screen against other starfighters to compensate for the lack of Particle Shielding. As for the Trade Federation Lukrehulk shields, I think it was due to the fact they were launching fighters to combat the N1s and hence the Particle shields were powered off. That would explain why in Episode 3 when entering The Invisible Hand Anakin had to disable to the shields because that ship didn't need to launch fighters because the were already deployed to the exterior hull.

@dr.boring7022

4 жыл бұрын

What about droidekas? They can fire bolts through their shield, but no bolts can enter theirs.

@ChestonU

4 жыл бұрын

@@rohanhalle580 Also, Particle shields appear to be opaque to matter - and in the example of the Invisible Hand, the hangar shielding had a purpose. It had a pressurized atmosphere to contain. Also, I believe the prior comments about speed are correct, yet inverted. Like in the Dune universe, Star Wars particle shields likely protect against high-energy, high-density masses (ships at speed, projectiles, missiles, plasma, etc), and provide just enough resistance to low-energy, low density masses (atmosphere) to hold it in place. This would explain why Anakin had to destroy the shield and risk venting the atmosphere. They could not pass through the containment shield at low speed, because they would be shot down on approach, but at high speed the containment shield would be effectively a giant wall they would crash against (a-la Scarif shield gate). I agree that power consumption is likely very high, due to needing to counter such high-energy, high density masses, and so they would only be used in limited fashion. This would be either in limited protected area (hangar bay, navigation deflector during hyperspace travel), or limited protected time, such as when under an expected physical attack. Another possibility could be that Particle and Ray shielding requires a trade off in resources (power , available generators, or time) to convert shields between protecting against physical attacks (Particle), or against energy weapons (Ray). This also explains why even small ships would also want to have armor plating and strong hulls - since you have to decide how much of what kind of shielding you are likely to need, and have to hope the ship itself is sturdy enough to handle the other kind of damage thrown at it.

@russellharrell2747

4 жыл бұрын

Dr. Boring the droidekas could simply be poking the ends of the barrels of their blasters out of their shield bubbles when firing.

"Nothing can get through our shields." Anakin: That's a good trick

Every flipping time I see a Star Wars thing now I immediately start craving Star Wars Squadrons intensely...

@galaxyblaster1095

4 жыл бұрын

Same man, same!

@ionstriker3721

4 жыл бұрын

The wait is f*cking killing me.

@Shot5hells

3 жыл бұрын

watching the clip of Kylo ripping into the Raddus by slipping under the shields

This actually gives an explanation for the favt that mon cal cruisers could outgun an ISD at long range, as they had a larger and more effective ion cannon suite, which they could use to bring down shielding, and then use turbolasers, while the Empire had to use turbolasers all the way due to limited and largely ineffective ion cannon equipment.

@michelecastellotti9172

3 жыл бұрын

Limited? An ISD 2 had 60 turbolasers and 60 heavy ion cannons, not to mention the other guns.

@bboygman8149

3 жыл бұрын

@@michelecastellotti9172 the amount doesnt really doctate effectiveness, and the empires weaponry was mass produced. The rebels custom-tuned everything. Ive actually read that the rebels' ion cannons could actually physically damage electronics due to power output

@michelecastellotti9172

3 жыл бұрын

@@bboygman8149 i had heard that all ion weapons could actually... but to be fair, in no show or movie we see imperials use ion cannons, but neither rebels aside ion torpedos, but i suspect its because nobody does its research at lucasfilm

@jeffbenton6183

2 жыл бұрын

My understanding is that it is cannon that each Star Destroyer has 4 turrets on either side of the superstructure - 6 which housed especially powerful turbolasers, and 2 that housed especially powerful ion cannons. This was just the ISD 1 from A New Hope, though, the ISD 2 had only turbolasers in their turrets (but each turret had more of them).

"Ray shielded" = shielded against energy "Particle shield" = shielded against matter

@TouchedProductions

6 жыл бұрын

Plot shield = What Star Wars uses

@TouchedProductions

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly the shield required by the plot. How nice.

@philippobitz2592

6 жыл бұрын

LazarusRemains And then there's Deflector Shields, that block both.

@allnamesaretakenful

6 жыл бұрын

And the shields of a Star Destroyer have been shown to block Asteroids, so it should block any Starfighters. Star Wars is a mess.

@striatic

6 жыл бұрын

Just because a ray shield is primarily for shielding against energy doesn't mean it won't zap fleshy organic creatures and droids that attempt to pass through it, while a shielded star fighter or proton torpedo might be able to zip through ray shields with no problem. And yes, of course the nature of the tech is designed to suit the needs of the plot, but it isn't so crazily non-sensical as many people are so adamant about making it.

The problem with your explanation is, in the clone wars series, which is canon, capital ships can barrage each other from really far away and still cause significant damage.

@mast3734

6 жыл бұрын

At the same time, in every capital ship battle in the clone wars, 99 out of 100 shots can be seen flying past their targets, and we also see in Anakin's outwitting of Admiral Trench that Clone Wars era ships had to drop their sheids to use some of their weapon systems. But also to be fair im working off of memory and could be compleatly wrong.

@LJLvids

6 жыл бұрын

yea that's true but shields are frequently brought up and are often bug problems, so I think it's safe to assume that long range capital ship on capital ship combat is possible, just rather inefficient.

@Andrewza1

6 жыл бұрын

Jeronimo Tamez the radize though was really big though. Bigger than a star destroyer actually. If it was in TCW it would dwarf ever ship it fought. The other support ship probably hid in its bubble. The TCW ships where all so pretty close

@Ismavolt

6 жыл бұрын

LJLvids Well, not really. It seems to be the ISDs preferred form of combat: In front and at range. Of course they have so much firepower that their enemy's shields don't last that long.

@cod3r1337

6 жыл бұрын

Also, how is this consistent with the Starkiller Base "superlaser" that seems to be able to destroy entire worlds from millions (?) of light-years away?

"The Last Jedi SOLVES Space Combat" Them's fightin' words.

@5erase

4 жыл бұрын

hahahahaha

@katraconnor8451

3 жыл бұрын

@@5erase its controversial, but true

@yeather_6562

3 жыл бұрын

@@katraconnor8451 while true in some aspects it’s grossly untrue in others

@bencosmos4950

2 жыл бұрын

I was wondering if he was going to talk about those stupid bombers.

"Anakin, have you noticed the shields are still up?!"

@jeremmy78

3 жыл бұрын

Hangar shields are a different kind of shild from defense shields

@Nilmur2

3 жыл бұрын

@@jeremmy78 why is this an argument/response? Anakin destroyed the hangar shields.

@KumoCC

3 жыл бұрын

@@Nilmur2 Because why would Obi-Wan be concerned about taking down the shields if fighters can pass through them? The answer: hangar shields are different... somehow.

@ZeroB4NG

3 жыл бұрын

@@KumoCC well they do need to keep the air inside... shields that protect you from laser fire do not.

I'm just angry at the arced shots during the chase, how are they arcing, WHY are they arcing

@capmanthegreat7007

6 жыл бұрын

it is pretty ridiculous- but it looks cool!

@capmanthegreat7007

6 жыл бұрын

I know, they aren't too Star-Warsy. But the arc they make is pretty cool lookin

@kenji214245

6 жыл бұрын

Because the director wanted a scene the reminded of WW2 battleships chasing one another. :/ Same with the retarded bombers in the first scene. He likes WW2 bomber planes and wanted that in the movie. :(

@mrgordondobby6124

6 жыл бұрын

I don't think they are normal lasers, I noticed that there is a very strange new technology introduced into this movie, there seems to be a new type of weapon like a laser but has a heavier artillery type feel to it. If you look under the hull of the dreadnaught there are some interesting cylinders behind the orbital cannon, these are apparently what gives it the power that it has. They also appear on the backs of the AT-MT6 Walkers, and you guessed it, they are behind the supremacy weapons. We don't really know how they work, it's a fictional movie so it shouldn't matter anyway. Although my guess is that they are magnetic or are "dragged" by a tractor beam towards their target, who knows? its an interesting new addition anyway, nothing to get upset about.

@PaulAlexander-tokyomagic

6 жыл бұрын

yup, but people moving objects with their mind is plausible.....no no, its was the arching energy bolts that broke reality for you, lol.

Normally I never comment on videos, but this was pretty decent. I didn't like the ship to ship combat in the latest movie at all but this offered a pretty decent explanation of most of it. The biggest issue for me is why fighter to capital ship attacks didn't do anything before. In Jedi, the Executor is only vulnerable after its bridge deflector shields have gone down. In Rogue, the command pod on the mon cal ship is completely exposed with ties flying all around it, but since shields are holding, there is no concern. Bridges in Star Wars make no sense if a single, one manned fighter could fire a missile and kill the entire command staff. Instead, we'd see bridges like in Battlestar, where the CIC is deep in the most armored portion of the ship.

@buttercup9709

5 жыл бұрын

Tbh bridges in star wars make no sense even if fighters aren't able to destroy them single handed. Having a large exposed bridge (star destroyers, the profundity) is an enemy gunners wet dream

@ACastillo2020

5 жыл бұрын

I believe because shields generally refers to two classes of shields one that stops energy from damaging the ship and one that stops matter from damaging the ship. Other wise, how would a ship be able to travel through space, since there can be various ways in which damage can be delivered by asteroids micro meteorites etc. It would be impractical if matter would be able to strip past them.

@daefaron

4 жыл бұрын

Mon Cal shields are among the tougher shields for ships. The Tie's were using purely blaster type attacks, instead of missiles, and unlike the Raddus prototype shields, that cruiser's shields were closer to the hull. The Executor was also slowly losing shield power when the one generator was destroyed. The Rebels were focusing firepower on the super star-destroyer.

@MonkeyJedi99

4 жыл бұрын

IIRC, the shield power on the Radus was completely concentrated to the rear arc, leaving the bridge foolishly exposed. But then ALL Star Wars ships put the bridge in dumb places, instead of in the very center of the ship. Windows are a weakness in combat, y'all!

@sayerglasgow115

4 жыл бұрын

The bridges are placed where they are so that the command crew has the high ground. It's also worth nothing that windows being a weakness depends a great deal on what the windows are made of. I doubt that bridge windows in star wars are made of regular glass, for all we know the windows could be just as strong as the surrounding hull.

2:03 Nemodian: “nothing can get through our shields” *Anikan flys through shields* Me: so that was a ducking lie

@jonathanball8237

4 жыл бұрын

Shields in Star Wars - Effected by Plot Armour …

@joshuaslawson9125

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanball8237 more like they had ray shields not a physical object stopper

@jonathanball8237

3 жыл бұрын

かわいいジョシュア Or Rey Shields....

@thimovijfschaft3271

3 жыл бұрын

Lucrehulks still have very good Ray shields tho

@revanofkorriban1505

3 жыл бұрын

The CGI team intentionally made a vulture droid leave the hangar just as Anakin was entering, so that would explain how he got in.

OMG, I never realized that Chewie's bowcaster did exactly that too. At almost point blank it's like a shotgun but at a further range it just brings Kylo to his knees. AWESOME!

@Ivan_Berni

2 жыл бұрын

Kylo would be totally destroyed by the bowcaster if he get shot.

@elmsigreen

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ivan_Berni He did get shot and no, he wasn't. Did you not see the movie?

@Ivan_Berni

2 жыл бұрын

@@elmsigreen yes, and that make no sense.

@elmsigreen

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ivan_Berni Did you not read my original comment? The energy dissipates at a distance. Sorta like a shotgun

@jeffbenton6183

2 жыл бұрын

@@elmsigreen It has generally been accepted that the bowcaster fires a physical, exploding projectile enveloped in plasma. This is probably why Ivan Berni considers the Force Awakens depiction to be non-sensical (either rightly or wrongly).

Well, to be fair, the shields are powered by a mysterious substance called 'plot.'

@mariobadia4553

6 жыл бұрын

Brian Slack lol

@casbot71

6 жыл бұрын

Cory Bernhardt I believe the major influence on 'plot' is main characters. It has some sort of observer effect, therefore it must be part of quantum mechanics.

@DannyPhantomBeast

6 жыл бұрын

By "plot" you mean "the force."

@juliannolten8975

6 жыл бұрын

well, actually; mon calimari shields are known to be the best in the galaxy.

@Mega-Brick

6 жыл бұрын

Good science-fiction(and science-fantasy) writes it's lore in such a way to open-up dozens of possibilities for plot.

In Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan says "have you noticed the shields are still up?" when he and Anakin are flying towards the Invisible Hand's hangar, showing that no, shields produced on board capital ships _can_ prevent fighters from entering. Obviously, that doesn't discredit this entire video, or even those specific points you made, but it is something to think about.

@TheDannoh403

6 жыл бұрын

Henry Ambrose I think in that instance ObiWan was referring to the hangar shields, which are more like the scarif shield gate on a smaller scale. Those shields are designed to stop fighters from entering, which explains why they are controlled by a separate generator producing a different type of shield

@mast3734

6 жыл бұрын

One could argue that hanger shields are different than the shields on the rest of the ship, and they only have the power to create the stronger field over the small entrances to the inside of the ship

@henryambrose8607

6 жыл бұрын

Alex The Huntsman Yes, I know that they are specifically for the hangar, and keep air and enemy craft out (which is why blast doors close when it is destroyed,) but my point is that he said that shields that prevent matter, especially starships, from breaching them are only possible when based on land. As they are represented, hangar shields must not only keep air in but enemy ships out, and allow friendly ships to leave. In The Clone Wars (Onderon Arc,) it is explained that Droideka shields repel fast moving physical projectiles and energy weapons (by using it's energy to stop it or something like that, I don't remember,) however slow moving projectiles such as a rolled thermal detonator can get past it. Clearly there's more to shields than is explained in this video. Perhaps we can get more detailed information in future, or even just have it all put together in a video like this one.

@jackrutledgegoembel5896

6 жыл бұрын

They also keep in air, apparently.

Can't we just all agree that rule of cool applies? Or, you know, the force exists. Physics doesn't necessarily have to be the same

@nedji8279

6 жыл бұрын

The physics of the Star Wars universe are the same as ours, with the exception of the Force. And no one was using the force to arc those laser shots.

@DonVigaDeFierro

5 жыл бұрын

Except only a select few can use the force.

@ryatt9365

4 жыл бұрын

Nom if something cool happens but it breaks the entire history of one of the biggest things in the series, that's a huge problem.

@blitz8425

4 жыл бұрын

@Neil Brown no

@blitz8425

4 жыл бұрын

@@nedji8279 evidently they aren't, and have never been.

But... missiles.

@7OwlsWithALaptop

6 жыл бұрын

DejaVoodooDoll they even used them in the prequels...

@7OwlsWithALaptop

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah I know that it makes no sence, I never said otherwise. Honestly it amazes me how some people claim that TLJ ruinied SW because of all the inconcistancies but forget that nothing ever made sence. It all just looks cool and it never had to do anything else. But in this video the creator tries to explain that nonsence. I left the comment rebuking his argument, with just two words...

@7OwlsWithALaptop

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment...

@jakegearhart

6 жыл бұрын

Missiles can be shot down with turrets. Energy can't.

@7OwlsWithALaptop

6 жыл бұрын

JakeTheGearHeart fighters too, but they are still used and if they have tracking missiles then they must be able to have missiles wirh evasion algorithmes

In TLJ the raddus' shields were on full power on the back but not on front, maybe this is how the tie fighters destroyed the bridge so easily...

@Halo_Legend

6 жыл бұрын

Fuzzworth Entertainment Yeah, it would seem that was the point

@johng8837

6 жыл бұрын

still why wouldn't the Empire just hyper jump in front of the rebel fleet and out flank them?

@milky4367

6 жыл бұрын

John Gron Thing is, I'm sure it'd be very hard to plot all those coordinates for the First Order. Also, they were very sure the Resistance was absolutely screwed. Why waste time jumping forward and back when their ships are slowly falling apart anyways?

@kalebdodds945

6 жыл бұрын

John Gron if first order did so perhaps the resistance could just turn around to a different direction and alter the shields to disperse power in different places

@stepheng5229

6 жыл бұрын

Fuzzworth Entertainment that does counter his point about the bridge but the point still stands about the fighters passing through it

What I could not unsee was that laser blasts from capital ship laser canons (the ones firing the largest rounds).... were curving in space!!! WTF? We've come to the general consensus that a typical blaster shot is in fact NOT a L.A.S.E.R. from what we consider but instead a charged plasma burst contained in a electromagnetic field, (don't get flustered over the multitude of variations on how this sci-fi weaponry works). We are in space and NOT near a significant gravity source and yet shots from the Supremacy aimed at the Raddus are curving like they were shots from a WWII Battlecruiser and they were having to compensate for ballistic trajectories as though they were on a planet and had drop due to gravity. Again.. WHAT THE FUCK?

@jackrutledgegoembel5896

6 жыл бұрын

Maybe something to do with all the shields and artificial gravity. Or maybe an intentional curving to make shots harder to predict.

@ultratankie

6 жыл бұрын

For fuck's sake, *this* is what people are hung up on? The first Star Wars movie in years to have actual themes and messages applicable to a person's real life, and people care that the turbolasers arc in space? The turbolasers could swing around in a corkscrew shape like missiles for all I care; it's a cool visual effect. Shut the fuck up.

@IsaiahReitanFilm

6 жыл бұрын

How do I like this multiple times?

@Snickersmaan

6 жыл бұрын

Can't we just excuse that the same way we excuse space ships behaving as if they are in atmosphere, or how every major species happens to be humanoid. Its such a small detail its embarrassing when people bring it up, so many things have been overlooked in star wars, why start a big deal about it now?! your just making your criticisms seem childish and makes them less impact full

@SoccerBoyAP

6 жыл бұрын

If you don't like the nitpicking then you don't understand the responsibility that Disney has to a legend in movies, books, games, comics. They ERASED 30+ years of Star Wars canon and started a new canon based off of EP 1 - 6 and a few books and The Clone Wars animated series. Then within that new canon they changed things that already existed. Disney didn't want to deal with the fractured Legends canon so creating a new canon was their only choice and they are already fracturing their new canon. This is what I'm not happy about. This is what tells me that Star Wars under Disney is not a good thing and it's only getting worse. e.g. - You don't buy McDonald's and fuck with the composition of the Big Mac, you leave it as it is, as people like it. This applies to so many things from the whole Star Wars universe down to individual things, mechanics, characters, story arcs.

It doesn't "solve" it, it just explains it, but it's always been this way

While I cannon confirm much of this, allow me to add to this video in several ways. Question 1: Since missiles and Proton Torpedoes are a thing, why not use them? Answer: Much like in the modern world, Missiles and other 'launched' weapons can be intercepted en-route by defensive point-defense guns. The only reason Kylo and his TIE's were able to fire missiles is likely due to their prior attack causing enough damage to prevent point-defense return fire. Meanwhile Turbolasers can only be stopped by shields. Question 2: If you can just hyperspace ram ships, why not make all ships do Kamakazi runs in warfare on auto-pilot droids? Answer: You need to properly understand how Hyperspace works. When actually in Hyperspace itself, you are in an alternate dimension where speed beyond the speed of light is possible - but it is still effected by 'mass shadows' created by strong gravitational forces in 'normal' space like Planets, Stars, Black Holes and other gravity-generating celestial bodies. So it is impossible to enter hyperspace (at least with a manufactured hyper drive as SW currently knows) to enter hyperspace while in a gravity well. And when a ship approaches a gravity well, they are yanked out of hyperspace, which is why such attacks wouldn't work on super-sized stations like the Death Stars, since they probably generate a substantial gravity well to prevent such an attack. On top of that, you need to keep in mind that when a ship enters hyperspace, it need to be pretty much stationary, since it has to point where its going. So while its preparing to activate the hyperdrive, that ship is a sitting duck to be shot out of the sky, or its target could just as easily move out of the way when it detects the contact priming said hyperdrive. Remember, when a ship enters hyperspace, there are a few miliseconds where it is going sub-light speed before entering hyperspace. So the kamakazi ram to work, the target has to be large enough to be impossible to miss or dodge, but small enough where its mass shadow doesn't prevent a successful hyperspace transition, and your own ship isn't shot out of the sky before you can even pull it off. And before people say "Then why don't they do it when they leave hyperspace?" Well, because as The Empire Strikes Back shows us, people can detect ships leaving hyperspace, so that gives them ample time to move out of the way. These ships are moving over the speed of light, its kinda difficult to maneuver when going at those kind of speeds, even for droids.

@andyjacobs7010

5 жыл бұрын

But, why then doesn't the Rebellion use kamikaze ships or asteroids for use against star destroyer and other large ships or space station sized targets.Its not like it would be a waste. If any attack is being conducted, casualties are to be expected.

@freddykrueger8076

5 жыл бұрын

Andy Jacobs Because they will do almost no damage. Holdo used a CAPITAL ship, and still barely damaged the First Order Capital ship. Most of the other damage, to the fleet per se, was by the fast moving debris. As well as the First Orders shields weren’t at full strength. A Starfighter, even a small asteroid sized one, even IF it doesn’t get shot down for not moving, would deal absolutely no damage to a capital ship with shielding intact. Not only that, but Hyperdrives are insanely expensive. **TL;DR** 1. Shields exist 2. Only Capital Ships will deal real damage 3. Capital Ships still wouldn’t destroy the target, just harm it 4. Hyperdrives are insanely expensive

@absboodoo

4 жыл бұрын

Andy Jacobs Different circumstances but the Executor was rammed by three stardestoryes coming out of hyperspace without significant damage.

@andyjacobs7010

4 жыл бұрын

@@freddykrueger8076 if it was high speed debris doing the damage, you can manufacture that by having a hyperdrive slam into a hunk of metal or something.

@ilikepigeons6101

4 жыл бұрын

117Jorn you're very clever

When it comes to shielding the resistance would have an advantage because of Mon Calamari technology

In fact, by scale, the ships are still several tens, maybe hundreds of kilometers apart, but that is still small for space battles.

@ECHenry

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, “close” is all relative here.

@chrissonofpear3657

6 жыл бұрын

Looks no more than 40 or 50 to me, going by the hologram.

@lucofparis4819

6 жыл бұрын

The Supremacy shot the shuttles who were beyond the Raddus. The range thing was not supported by the visuals actually.

@andyenglish4303

6 жыл бұрын

The shuttles had stealth drives engaged and likely had little to no shielding.

@psoma_brufd

6 жыл бұрын

Ben English Which is why they could be hit beyond the Rattus.

Also, if fighters are relying on evading enemy heavy weapons at close range, then it makes more sense to be constantly under thrust if you can be; this means you can be constantly changing velocity and vector, making you harder to hit, especially if these course changes are random. Larger ships would want to spend as little time in the enemy's zone mortis (the area in which they can kill you) as possible, resulting is ships likely making a lot of head on jousting passes as they pass alongside each other at best possible speed, trying to get in, do their damage and get out before they get killed themselves. The ships would roll to present as many guns and the best armor profile as it could (hence the sharply angled side armor of star destroyers), slam open the throttle, use their shields to barrel into close range and have a (hopefully) short and incredibly violent exchange of close range gunfire. This would also explain why guns being mounted in trenches and limited traverse casemates is considered good design: the guns are designed for use in these drive by broadsides or for battering enemy shields on the approach. And if most of your guns are on one surface, so what? Just flip the ship over so the edge is facing the enemy and the armor is angled and guns presented good firing arcs; the gravity is magic so the direction the ship relative to the enemy doesnt matter.

Definitely been said already in the 2,602 other comments at time of posting, but this just points out how dumb Star Wars people are for not using missiles and projectile weapons. And if particle shielding is effective enough to still negate projectile weapons somehow while not in active use, like as a reaction to detecting projectiles, then they could just as easily detect enemy fighters to similarly selectively fire the shielding. I really wish there was a Star Wars style universe, but with actual common sense and tactics. I want tacticians that put Code Geass and Death Note to shame in how they utilize all the assets available to a Star Wars tech level galaxy to perfect use, and other nearly as skilled to just as skilled or more skilled tacticians who oppose those plans with their own mastery. You could completely rebrand it as a directly parallel universe to Star Wars, so you could have that admiral Thrawn vs a similarly competent figure on the Rebel/Opposition side and the series revolves around their engagements in a Light vs L dichotomy with a heaping scoop of Code Geass action and tech.

@GurniHallek

4 жыл бұрын

I ha a similar thought, at some point. I would call it "Stellar Conflicts". And the ships would have radiators in it. All of them. Small solid ones for the fighters, huge-ass dusty-plasma ones for capitals.

@anxiousearth680

4 жыл бұрын

What do you mean by make sense though? Make sense as in a consistent reason as to why fights are as they are or make sense as in changing the way the fights are? I'd be down for more consistency for the first one but not for the second. Realism is boring. Real space battles would have many small drones instead of fighter craft. Drones are smaller, can do without life support and can execute impossible maneuvers for any living being. Computers would do everything we see our beloved characters do and better. AI flown ships. AI controlled guns. (As it stands in Star Wars, most things are still much better with skilled human personel) There'd be no flashy blasters and laser swords. I like how the fantasy part of Star Wars glorifies individuals and makes everything very human and dramatic. Realism would take that away.

@scorpion1429

4 жыл бұрын

What youre asking for is Admiral Thrawn with no plot armor for anyone. Additionally we only get to see actual tactical competence in legends.

@About37Hobos

4 жыл бұрын

Scorpion 142 Thrawn is given plot armor more than once, and we do see missiles used, the issue is that ECM is really good in Star Wars, making their affect on other ships limited. As far as competence goes... legends is 1 part interesting tactics, 659 parts pew pew pew. In canon it’s closer to 1 part interesting tactics 15 parts pew pew pew. Read aftermath.

@davidthomas2870

4 жыл бұрын

Jedi vs gun: idiot with laser sword found dead covered in molten lead.

I like to think of it as "It's not actually happening like this, it's just translated so it's easier to follow." That said, if Blasters and Turbolasers have such relatively poor ranges and projectiles seem to be able to pierce shields, why not use Mass Drivers on capital ships to provide some additional range and survivability, since you don't need to get into brawling range.

@striatic

6 жыл бұрын

Theoretically, mass drivers could have their projectiles blasted by point defence weaponry, since while they would be very fast, their trajectories are more predictable than fighters. Of course you could just put thrusters on the projectiles to make them less predictable, but what's the fun in that? There's actually a considerable amount of evidence that "space" in the Star Wars universe is much less of a total vacuum than space is in our universe. The banking and swooshing of star fighters, space vehicles needing to keep their thrusters lit in order to maintain momentum, Han and Leia needing breathing apparatus but not pressure suits while inside the Exogorth, Ezra having breathing apparatus but exposed skin while riding on Purgills. I think that's the real 'in universe answer' for why we don't see capital ships using mass drivers. They just aren't as useful in the Star Wars galaxy "semi-vacuum" when compared to blasters.

So primitive weaponry like missiles and dropped bombs would be highly effective?

@PlanetGoddess

6 жыл бұрын

I mean, they *do* work better whenever we see them, so...

@valtersplume3726

5 жыл бұрын

Kylo and his escort's missile barrages were effective, so yes.

@erichdegurechaff9515

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, in canon they used missiles to pass through shield

@f14tomcata88

5 жыл бұрын

Yep that’s weird though

@NardoVogt

5 жыл бұрын

Yes. As with the first deathstar and several PC Games, Torpedoes and Missiles can go through shielding (but can also shot down).

Sure, I guess. Fighters passing through some shields and weapons having effective ranges doesn't appear to contradict movie canon. Well done maintaining a small sliver of continuity, Rian Johnson. Thing is, the tactics and strategies of space combat in The Last Jedi are incoherent. For all that the Last Jedi didn't also screw up range and passable shields, it seriously strains suspension of disbelief when 1 - The First Order doesn't start by targeting the Resistance's ships in the beginning (instead they target the evacuated base) 2 - The First Order's Star Destroyers do absolutely nothing to target the Resistance's ships during an extended battle over the Destroyer. 3 - The First Order calls off their devastating fighter attack instead of doubling down on it 4 - The First Order doesn't send ships ahead through hyperspace to trap the Resistance (and/or call in reinforcements ahead of the Resistance, since apparently they start the movie with enough might to take control of the entire civilized galaxy) 5 - The First Order can detect cloaked ships, but decides not to detect Finn and Rose twice. 6 - Lightspeed ramming is shown to be possible, which breaks space combat in all of Star Wars. Even minus the other movies, it has implications for The Last Jedi -- the Resistance left behind pilots on two ships which could have been used as weapons, both of whom died anyway. Arguments that the leadership of both the First Order and the Resistance are stupid don't help the movie. It's not emotionally gripping to watch idiots stumble around an objective for three hours when they have the power to achieve that objective immediately -- rather, if that was a point of the movie, it needed much better development and focus in order for it to be emotionally gripping. Also, given that range can prevent all damage to the Resistance ships, but prevents no damage to the Resistance escape vessels, that could have used a line of dialogue.

@anxiousearth680

4 жыл бұрын

Very well said. Thank you.

@Nethseaar

4 жыл бұрын

@@anxiousearth680 Always glad to see that my essay-length comments get read. =-)

@drosera88

3 жыл бұрын

I don't mind that the First Order couldn't detect cloaked ships, especially since it's implied cloaking has something to do with the way information is fed into sensors and stuff, rather, my problem is that the First Order had motherfucking WINDOWS. Sensor cloaking only works when the ships don't have a direct line of sight of the ships being cloaked. They're asking the audience to believe that there aren't droids or people looking out windows for escaping ships, which is just retarded.

It might answer a few questions, though it completely breaks space combat by weaponizing FTL; which now as it's established that it's possible and super-effective will logically become the main weapon of future star wars battles. Essentially big capital ships are no longer practical due to being sitting ducks for smaller ships to TFL ram them, meaning that in next Star Wars movies, we will probably not see big ships anymore, and instead smaller ships relying on stealth & engaging each other across the width of solar systems using FTL powered weapons. They will probably take the fighter model, strip out any superficial shields, systems and weapons; keep only the engines and automatic steering, and give it a solid titanium core to create essentially a FTL missile capable of instantly killing a capital ship the moment it is detected. It'll be like a game of Battleships where any ship that is discovered is immediately annihilated.

Okay Henry, let's talk about that. Episode 4 sequence : the Falcon chases a TIE fighter. Its weapons wont loose their power with range. It will loose its effectiveness, because the unshielded target is moving fast, and can keep up at a distance where it can dodge the bolts. Episode 6 : getting closer to a fleet of Star Destroyers which doesn't move and basicaly close the way out only means getting surrounded by turbolasers and fighters. Bad thing. At distance you can concentrate shields forward. Not when you are surrounded. Episode 3 : these are not turbolasers. These are cannons firing solid ammos. Turbolasers don't need to drop ammo cases. So yeah, solid shells used to go straight through shields, probably fired at a slow speed in order to achieve such purpose. That's why they needed to go so close to each other. The goal ? To have a callback to sailing ships firing at each over. But this time it is well shown and explained. It's called good writing (at least for this part). As for shields : Star Wars is NOT Star Trek. The shields are set up tight to the ship's hull (except for starfighters). That's it. These are NOT bubble shields, except for the base shields and planetary shields, where a bubble form makes sense. Rian did the wrong franchise AND used "laser mortars" for Snoke's ship. Laser/energy mortars. Yeah, the shots have an arc. In space. Not as bad as Leïa scene tho. Keep try to defend the dumb stuff, I am looking forward to this. TLJ was okay but really dumb. Defend the movie mistakes by making up ways to say : look ! It fits in SW logic and lore ! Is ridiculous.

@kenji214245

6 жыл бұрын

Actually i think episode 3 is energy weapons too. They are gas canisters since all star wars weapons operate on special gases. The very reason why the weapons are called laser weapons is because the gas is ignited by the laser. And you can get some really nice amount of ammo but much less weight. The reason they are those canister is because the gas was super compressed and then fired by rail guns. Which is why they are so volatile. :) for example the clone troopers weapons uses dual gas canisters in each clip that has a charge of 500 shots on low. 200 on medium and about 50 on maximum firepower. or something like that... o__o

@lucofparis4819

6 жыл бұрын

kenji214245 This explanation might works. Yet that doesn't explain why they engage so closely. Sure we can talk about the fact the Separatists basicaly jumped right on them from hyperspace. But the move of the Venator remains : why get even closer to the flag ship ? These are side weapons dispatched all along the hull. What is their purpose ? They are special. Otherwise they would be turret mounted like the others. I think they can go straight through shields in one way or another, but have a short range. That's why I think these are solid ammos, not because of "gas canisters". You don't need to do that on your blaster, X-Wing cannon, Death Star turbolaser turret, or Falcon quadlaser turrets. Where are their canisters ? Why here specifically do they need to drop one at each shot ?

@richardched6085

6 жыл бұрын

Luc Fauvarque I agree mostly but the Raddus did have Bubble Shields. Most Star Wars Shields are a combination of tensor Fields (Or structural integrity field) and skintight force Fields that dissipate the energy of a Turbolaser bolt or solid object (A Ray/Particle shield hybrid) And you are correct that those Broadside Cannons fire Proton Shells (Smaller versions of the CIS J-1 Anti-Air Artillery Guns which can Pierce Neutronium {Not Neutron Star Material} Impregnated Durasteel) The CIS version requires more primitive means of loading the shells while the Republic version (Relative of the AV-7 Artillery Cannon) loads them from underneath the Cannon itself. Both have comparable Yields and are capable of tearing vessels apart at close range.

@richardched6085

6 жыл бұрын

Not Todd Howard same shit different day.

@thijmenhermelink1874

6 жыл бұрын

Mon calamari shielding is famous for being powerful and the Raddus specificly has and advanced shield that projects it a bit Outward so that further damage to the hull can be prevented.

If that were the case then the first order would have sent fighters to destroy the ships since they were no danger to them. Instead they sent only 3 and recalled them after they inflicted considerable damage. Also in clone wars the ships have great range and those are cannon now. Im pretty sure the reason is the same as in every dogfighting movie (usually fighter pairs fly km-s apart yet in movies they dogfight it out a few meters apart). It looks cooler. Also the new star destroyers seemed to have great fighter defense in TFA when it was comfortable for the story. Yet in this a SINGLE XWING destroys the whole defensive capabilites of the second biggest ship in the FO armada. These are cool little spins on the story but the movies themselves contradict each other. Fighter defense was a huge plothole in the old movies too Ill give you that. But at least at the death star they said it was simply not made for small scale battle (funny considering they were up against a rebel force and had more than enough fighters to defend it but anyway). Also in Ep6 the rebels concentrated all firepower onto the Executor before it was shown to have been breached by fighters. I always assumed it was a collective barrage that made it possible to destroy the shield bubbles at the top. Otherwise there would be no reason to have capital ships in star wars.

When the Falcon was chasing the Tie Fighter and Obi wan said it was too far out of range he ment from a base or capital ship because they dont have hyper drives in Tie Fighters NOT because the Falcon was out of weapons range the reason it took so long to fire was because the weapons had to be powered up and then also automaticly target the Tie Fighter since there was no one in the gunner seats.

@Jason-iz6ob

2 жыл бұрын

No. Because Han immediately said “not for long” and accelerated. They’d already made the comment about it being too far from a base.

@moscanaveia

2 жыл бұрын

And Han also says the TIE is almost in range before they all notice the death and murder ball up ahead

3:30 No that is not the reason, at least if you go with the Legends Novel "Death Star". There it is stated that the shields of the Death Star had to be downgraded to a rudimentary level because even the powerfull generator of the Death Star was not able to provide enough energy for propulsion, the superlaser, secondary weapons all the rest of the systems and high end shielding. The Empire sacrificed shield protection for firepower. As for the Anakin-Story: When you pause exactly at 2:43 you can see Droid Starfighters leaving the hangar on the right just when Anakin enters, so the Hangar section of the shield could actually have been deactivated for them to launch and Anakin was just lucky to slip in

I don't know if this was ever a question. The Last Jedi is stupid for a lot of reasons this isn't really one. Answer why the Raddus was faster because it was lighter? When in any other SW movie has bigger meant faster. Or if the Raddus is faster in open space why it never gains any distance? Or why is it the ship that run "out of fuel" just stop in mid spacen instead of traveling at the same rate unless acted upon by a different force. Or why the 1st Order fleet just doesn't jump ahead and cut them off.

@kudosbudo

6 жыл бұрын

well the reason ships run out of fuel and slow down isbecause the other ships around it are still accelerating so that explains that. its basic newtonian physics. it doesn't however explain leia. unless when she was ejected, due to already moving at great speed she would have not been floating in space but actually carried that spped from the ship (because no friction in space) and for a very short time would have kept up with the raddus. she's not in space for all that long so would have had time to get back with the force before the raddus accelerated behind her. In fact! the scene depicts her not moving in front of teh raddus so already when we come back to her, the speed she had after being blasted out of the front of teh ship was "caught up to" by teh raddus. So physics and space science exlains it all haha.

"Their shields have a fractional refresh rate, keeps anything slower than lightspeed from getting through" based on that line, I'd wager that the shield's effectiveness can be tuned to repel certain types of things. But with enough power you can simply repel everything. Ships can't do that, so they tune the shield's refresh rate to absorb fast moving objects like blaster bolts, but can't tune them to also repel fighters.

@red5t653

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that makes sense! Combine that with the two types of shielding (ray and particle) and you get shields capable of completely denying turbolasers but still let in proton torpedoes.

@walkingwater548

4 жыл бұрын

No there are two types of shields ray shields that stop lasers blasters and ion projectiles. and particle shields that stop asteroids ships and missiles.

That lasers can't penetrate shields but fighters easily can was evident in the Star Wars Starfighter game for PS2. I remember my little brothers asking why I could fly through the blue shields projected by the droid lander ship, when the boundary was clearly defined when I shot at it.

Thanks for clearing this up. It’s been something I’ve never understood. It also make the difference between star wars space battles and star trek ‘s space battles.

So a UNSC mac rounds is better and the same would go for slug rounds, got it.

You're making a critical mistake when talking about fighters and shields, and that's that every ship besides the Raddus doesn't have a shield envelope, meaning there's nothing for the fighters to get INSIDE of. Most ships have shields that "hug" the surface of the ship, not allowing any space for a fighter to get under the shields. The Raddus is unique in that it can actually extend it's shields outwards to create a shield bubble that can be used to protect other smaller ships with weaker shields.

These specific fighters have plot armour. When it's convenient they pass through shields. The turbo laser's are not actually lasers by the way. They are a form of super heated gas, very specificly plasma. (Blows the theory out of the water that Star Trek shielding is too advanced to be affected but I digress). Plasma does cool as time goes on. So yes. Range is a factor. But... In the prequels in the 3rd episode the reason those ships were so close was the pitched battle was right on top of each other. These ships did not have to be that close to do damage. Furthermore, Return of the Jedi brought capital ships at point blank range because the rebellion hoped the death star would not risk firing on their own navy. Remember how the commander of the star destroyers said to hold fire? They just had to keep the rebels pinned. They were not to engage. Because they WAS in optimal firing position. The emperor just wanted to play with his new toy.

The issue of range never bothered me, but you explained a whole lot about the reasoning behind fighters for me, so thank you.

So, if shields are highly resistant to energy, but not physical matter, then why do capital ships bother with large, anti-ship blaster cannons instead of large, anti-ship rail guns? I _know_ this question has been asked by other people in this thread, but it bears repeating. For that matter, since they're in space, and TLJ demonstrates that there is no gravity in space, then why are the large blaster bolts following a ballistic trajectory (i.e. being arced to fall on the target) as if they have to compensate for gravity, and why do we see this in literally no other Star Wars material? The only thing TLJ explained was how Rian Johnson has no idea what he's doing.

@PlanetGoddess

6 жыл бұрын

Ballistic weapons are illegal and largely seen my most as unnecessarily brutal in SW

@joj1560

5 жыл бұрын

Dam slugthrowers

@Acryllis0767

5 жыл бұрын

They're not, actually? They're 'outdated' because most personal armor(especially military-grade) has significant protection against ballistic threats as opposed to blasters. But mass drivers are still in use by galactic militaries -- the AT-TE has a primary weapon that is literally a mass driver, missile weapons are predominately 'ballistic', etc etc. Rian Johnson has no idea what he's doing.

@thefriendd6506

5 жыл бұрын

Rian Johson wanted turbolaser bolts that arched, because he wanted to. It has also been said somewhere on Wookiepedia that most Capital ships do have anti-physical shields, it's just they never seem to have them on during critical space battles. Plot!

There are 2 shields in star wars. Ray Shields, for defense against energy weapons and particle shields against solid objects, like fighters or missiles

@JamesLPlummer

6 жыл бұрын

Other way around, actually. Ray shields is what stopped Anakin, Obi-wan, and Palpatine on the Invisible Hand.

@HighLordBaron

6 жыл бұрын

James 'Wulf' Plummer Realy ? Whoops

@SinerAthin

6 жыл бұрын

If Ray shields are that common, I wonder if boarding actions are even feasible in Star Wars without getting immediately cut off by ray shields.

@uni4rm

6 жыл бұрын

James 'Wulf' Plummer “it’s ray shielded, so you’ll have to use torpedos”. Briefing on Yavin before the Death Star battle. Clearly the shields used in ep3 were different somehow.

@apache5971

6 жыл бұрын

Those ray shields were basically just turned up to maximum.

Good explanation. My own homemade explanation: Powerful anti-starship weapon countermeasures (electronic warfare) that scrambles targetting sensors. Therefore, you have to get right next to each other. Both explanations work well. HOWEVER, I did notice the green blaster cannon shots *arcing*...through space?? No...no...no...

@JoshArgentine

4 жыл бұрын

LouisAlecTube Were they near a planet or star? Nearby gravity sources could explain that.

@Derpy-qg9hn

4 жыл бұрын

@@JoshArgentine Only if they weren't already at orbital velocity... and.. why wouldn't you be at orbital velocity around a planet?

@anxiousearth680

4 жыл бұрын

That's really not too bad. The rules of Star Wars stick closely to the rule of cool rather than any sort of realism. As long it doesn't trivialise the conflict(like hyperspace ramming) or make everything else not work, it's fine

Love how you pointed out something I’ve been trying to tell my friends for weeks now, still doesn’t fix the stupidity of the first order though

yeah,but why are *these* laser shots behaving like that if there is no gravity in space? (0:08)

@CRaZYLPs2508

6 жыл бұрын

In Star Wars there has always been some kind of... at least "up and down" in space. With everyone walking in spaceships (I know, gravity generators, but stay with me) and every spaceship being aligned in the same direction. As for the gravity part, in Clone Wars [canon] there is a scene where Anakin and a female jedi are in a ship and are upside down and their hair is hanging upwards as if the were really upside down in space. So space kinda always behaved like this in Star Wars

@cyclonusg1251

6 жыл бұрын

There *is* gravity in space. Gravity doesn't just stop when you reach outside the atmosphere. Every object with mass has its own gravity. If you had a universe with nothing in but two tennis balls, they would eventually collide due to their own gravity. So, taking into account that all these ships have some form of gravity controls to have at least close to 9.81 m/s² of gravity, it makes sense that laser bolts would arc that way.

@The_Irish_Fox

6 жыл бұрын

My question is why is everyone noticing this only now

@GhostCT-ih7ck

6 жыл бұрын

CyclonusG1 It still doesn'tmake any sense since all other weapons firing aren't shown to have their shots affected by gravity and this pretty much trows you explaination out the airlock. Again, taking in consideration those mortar-like weapons, how could the rebel ships gravity affect something being fired from so far away at a angle so high, I higly doubt that a ship of that size would have enough mass to attract those shots.

@crypticwilson4231

6 жыл бұрын

War Gamer We live in the age of CinemaSins my friend, people like to pick apart everything.

Still leaves a plot hole. If capital ship Shields only block energy weapons and not physical matter, why not use nuclear weapons? It's just a rocket with a nuclear tip. The nuke would detonate when it hits the ship itself.

@idkwayta1722

6 жыл бұрын

Sw stucks in ww2 mental there no guided missile, hell even fully droid auto pilot kamikaze to enemy ship would create devastate explosion

@lucofparis4819

6 жыл бұрын

Phan Tran SW torpedoes are guided. Proton torpedoes are nuclear warhead with surgically tailored blast radius. Destroyers frigates/corvettes and carriers are the main features for capital ships, just like in modern navies. Flag ships and Dreadnoughts are just there to be scary. They do little to no job, and it is well established that the Imperial navy doctrine is rigid and outdated, not suited for the task (killing rebel scum). Other than that, SW tech is pretty okay, especially for a space opera franchise. Sad that TLJ threw it all and made whatever it wanted to regardless of source material's ruleset. No matter how much effort EC Henry will do to make it work, he will fail. TLJ tech is not SW tech. It is obvious. Nice visuals, wrong franchise. He should have kept his WW2 love and laser sword hate for himself.

@casbot71

6 жыл бұрын

Rail guns would do the job, and they have range - infinite in space. Opps sorry, we killed someone with the shot we fired 10 months ago. And kaboom, we just got hit with a slug fired in the clone wars.

@KaosNova2

6 жыл бұрын

Proton torpedoes are nuclear weapons.

@KaosNova2

6 жыл бұрын

casbott mass drivers from the old EU are railguns.

2:36 point of information: in episode 3 the invisible hand's hangar was protected by the anti-matterial shield and anikin had to blow up stuff to either side to allow him and obi won to enter the hangar. it happens shortly after the buzz droid part. its not the whole ship, but it was possible for them to generate and hold them for extended periods of time, so there isn't really any reason other capital ships couldn't do that aswell. and if they can do that for one area there is no reason they can't shift it to other generators elsewhere on the ship.

I agree with all of your points! Another thing the last Jedi did was a really small cinematic detail but one which I really liked - every time something happened outside a ship while we the audience were inside it, such as a fighter flying by the window, or coming out of hyper speed, the windows and objects inside would rattle. It happens at least 4 or 5 times, and that little detail did so much to bring you into the action and make it feel like these things all existed in one world rather than just being CG elements pasted outside a green screen set window. Such a wonderfully crafted movie.

why would the plasma bolts be losing so much power over such tiny distance? in TLJ I assumed it was because both fleets were accelerating and the bolts had to also accelerate to reach the target , and so had to lose a lot of fuel/energy in the process. another reason may be that the 2 fleets keep using tractor beams against each other's weapons to try to deflect or weaken them. that might also explain why the plasma bolts seemed to be going in an arc and not in a straight line. maybe the resistance was using a repelling beam , or the first order was using a tractor beam to slow them down but it also effected their own weapons

@LordDarthHarry

6 жыл бұрын

Because they are energy encased in a containment field, not solid objects. Its a common trope in Sci-Fi that energy weapons "bleed" energy over distance resulting in them losing power.

@pseudonymousbeing987

6 жыл бұрын

Major Grin The ships are tens, maybe somewhere under a hundred km apart if we go by the destroyers in universe length and the diagram shown by the officer.

@GeorgeCowsert

6 жыл бұрын

People just love to use plasma in Sci Fi, but they fail to recognize just how shit it is when weaponized. Plasma is a superheated and electrically charged gas, meaning it can dissipate. Lasers and an infinitely better alternative, especially in space, solely because light doesn't dissipate. There are even lasers so hot that they create plasma! Now, while mirrors, clouds of dust, and traces of plasma may hinder its performance, mirrors can still melt and clouds of whatever can be burned with enough shots.

@mihailazar2487

6 жыл бұрын

Major Grin the TURBOLASERS don't use fuel They're plasma projectiles not missles

@DrewLSsix

6 жыл бұрын

Major Grin. That's actually one of the primary issues with plasma based weapons today, the energy dissipates extremely quickly over very short distances. Obviously in the Star Wars Galaxies they have solved this to an extent that they can at least use the weapons at some useful range at least.

Why do the shots from Snokes flagship arc? Wouldn't it make more sense to just shot straight at the target?

@kudosbudo

6 жыл бұрын

if you had shots that could arc would you not try and land shots on the front of the shield here its weakest?

@chrissonofpear3657

6 жыл бұрын

That's a least a decent reason for it. Just no idea how it would WORK.

Very good analysis. The First Order chasing the fleeing rebellion ships also demonstrates this concept when they were too far away to damage them enough to slow them down for a terminal engagement.

This tracks! It makes sense with these rules that the hangars all just border on open space, only protected by a shield (rather than some kind of airlock). We always see the fighters just fly right through the shield to exit!

Yeah yeah yeah. TLJ makes sense of everything concerning space combat. This 0:26 to 0:28 did it for me. That and magnetic bombs.

I'll say that you're right... but also wrong. While the Last Jedi does answer a lot of questions about space combat in Star Wars, it also breaks a few of its own rules at the same time.

@MonkeyJedi99

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with this completely.

I didn't catch all these intricacies when I watched, but I did notice (and appreciate) that they finally SHOWED some shields. In most of the earlier movies, you heard "shields" mentioned repeatedly, but the "shields" never seemed to make much difference or be visible.

@blastech4095

3 жыл бұрын

Here are some of the OT shield effects from the battle over Endor kzread.info/dash/bejne/aqplrMGekcy4h7w.html

I like it when fantasy universes play by their own rules, makes the worlds feel alive and human.

Slight problem with your explanation of the reason the Falcon didn’t shoot the tie fighter when they were going to the Death Star I think. Tie fighters are unshielded I believe, so there wouldn’t be a reason not to shoot it down.

@chrissonofpear3657

6 жыл бұрын

Jamming.

@internetzenmaster8952

6 жыл бұрын

Yup. Basic TIEs have no shields, no jamming abilities, nothing. They're basically guns with wings and extremely suicidal pilots.

@onlypeaceindeath

6 жыл бұрын

They do have jamming devices and shields. Hell, they even have ejector seats and life support.

@chrissonofpear3657

6 жыл бұрын

I think it depends on how 'valuable' each pilot is. Might have a jamming device for weapons maybe.

@scottthewaterwarrior

6 жыл бұрын

I always looked at that as "artistic license." Same reason why movies like Battle of Britain or Top Gun show enemies so close together, at a realistic distance, the other guy would just be a dot.

I love how this implies that Star Wars weapons technology is locked in a literal arms race with defensive technology. Turbolasers are very powerful, but only at short range. Why use them when longer-range options could be conceivably thought up? I'm sure long-range laser and physical munition weapons exist, but given the state of the comparatively absurd levels of protection ray shielding provides, launching fighters or getting into a naval knife fight are really your only options. Perhaps at some point in the Star Wars galaxy's future weapons and defensive technologies will change, requiring a paradigm shift that makes Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War warfare look quaint, much like how ships of the line exchanging broadsides appear in our modern world where ships fire weapons that go beyond the horizon to wreak havoc.

This is amazing. The kind of stuff I felt just clicked for me put into words.

Thanks for the informative video. I never thought about how TLJ represented space battles but your points are quite good.

"I'll buy that." Good job.

This is amazing! This is definitely going to help developing fanon ships. I finally have a reason to include hangers!

TLJ had a ton of issues, but it wasn’t as bad as people say and a lot of the issues people point at are actually non issues. Fuel has always existed, this type of combat makes sense, those ships didn’t slam on the brakes when they ran out of fuel, they stopped accelerating allowing the dreadnaught to catch up. Storywise the film is a mess, but they absolutely got the combat and stuff right.

Not what I was expecting the video to be about, but I actually think I got more out of this one. It gives me a frame of reference to better lay out and describe space battles in my Star Wars RPGs.

Why do the blaster bolts fired from the Supremacy have a curved trajectory when fired at a long-distance target?

@anxiousearth680

4 жыл бұрын

That's really not too bad. The rules of Star Wars stick closely to the rule of cool rather than any sort of realism. As long it doesn't trivialise the conflict(like hyperspace ramming) or make everything else not work, it's fine

@galaxyblaster1095

4 жыл бұрын

I think it is because the are not lasers or energy, but a plasma encased artillery shell, similarly to Chewie's bowcaster quarrels.

@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r

4 жыл бұрын

@@galaxyblaster1095 That still doesn't address the curved trajectory. What nearby mass is exerting a gravitational pull that would give a projectile that curved trajectory? It's the kind of trajectory that you would see if you fired a long-distance weapon while on a planet's surface. Crait is too far away and in the wrong direction to create that trajectory. And the Resistance fleet does not have enough mass to exert that kind of gravitational force.

@galaxyblaster1095

4 жыл бұрын

@@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r True, I didn't think of that. And yet, there is something I can't quite put my finger on that feels like there is some reason that they should have curved trajectories.

@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r

4 жыл бұрын

@@galaxyblaster1095 One might argue that the weapon is intentionally designed to create a curved trajectory through some sort of internal propulsion so that the projectile strikes the top/bottom of the target, which is usually larger, but even that isn't a good enough reason because the mass and energy required to create that propulsion could be put to better use by simply allowing the weapon to fire more shots, eventually getting a hit "up the tailpipe" to disable the engines, thus allowing the offense to catch up to finish the job. Besides, a curved trajectory allows the defender more time to evade the shot because it has to travel farther to hit its target (that's just basic geometry). Also, when you have a curved trajectory, there are more variables at work to determine whether or not the shot will hit. But when you fire in a straight line, especially if you have a barrage of shots, your accuracy is more likely, even against a moving target because you can lead the target. Another design option for a long distance weapon would be to have it explode into smaller pieces based on proximity, like the projectile from a modern day rail gun. That way, it doesn't matter if the projectile misses; it just has to get close to the target.

Holy heck! A video PRAISING The Last Jedi (easily my favourite out of the sequels) and breaking some of it down wonderfully! Thanks!

You make some good points. I think there are many more problems that aren't addressed, such as the turbo LASERS having a balistic arch when fired through space, or bombs dropping without any propulsive means from the bombers. However, I missed that about lasers at range being less effective, which can be explained by them dissipating energy in the form of the glow we see.

I’ve thoroughly read the comments and have put together a few things that can explain how everything happens: Sinking/ slowing ships: when the cruisers in the movie run out of fuel they appear to slow and fall downwards to our perspective..... the slowing can be explained by the lack of friction in space and how if in motion an object will continue and increase speed continually until it hits something therefore stopping the velocity of the object, this is meant to describe how the ships around it continue to gain speed as the disabled ship floats at its recent speed therefore looking slowed..... the sinking look can be explained as engines powering down in sequence from bottom to top as a way of maneuvering away from enemy fire the bottom to top order explains why it is put at a downward trajectory Arcing projectiles: This is explainable by the light mass of the projectile being pulled toward the gravity of the large cruiser, someone may say why do they over shoot the cruiser, it may have been because they were trying to overshoot the shield and or hit the bridge, they knew the shields were on the back so shooting more forward could potentially hit the hull Explaining my thoughts on these explanations: the medical frigates nose pointing upward means the engines turn off in a different order meaning that it’s maneuver is to go up instead of down the other support ship may have been on purpose as a way to shield its crew as they escape. This is my explanation and I hope people can help put together other things and we can explain how Star Wars space battles work

1st thing you got wrong: turbolasers almos dont loose energy thats why we see orbital bombardments, ships get close to eachother to use plasma cannons more effectively(those loose energy over distance yes) and those plasma cannons can deactivate shields. 2nd: turbolasers can get through shileds if big enough 3rd: turbolasers can overload shields...not wait for a sweet spot 4th: the deathstar and first order ships were vulnerable against fighters not for having little fighters, instead it was for the lack of point defense laser cannons(very effective against fighters

@PlanetGoddess

6 жыл бұрын

Canon orbital bombardments are actually pretty tame (Rebels is the only canon example and turbo laser shots are hardly as effective as grenades)

@anzaca1

5 жыл бұрын

1. Yes, they do. Go look up how particle beam weapons function. charged particles, such as plasma, repel each other, thus a plasma bolt would spread out as it traveled. 2 & 3. Mon Calamari ships have always been stated to have incredibly durable shield systems. 4.Wrong. It was a combination of both.

@homelessend8557

5 жыл бұрын

I've never seen an orbital bombardment besides rebels and the last jedi, so mind if you can post those other facts up?

@icharneco29

5 жыл бұрын

@@homelessend8557 look up Base Delta Zero the Empire used this maneuver a few times.

@homelessend8557

5 жыл бұрын

@@icharneco29 show me where they do it. Not speculation, but actual proof of where they did it

I'm still waiting for the sarcastic tone of the video........

I look at it a bit differently. You are absolutely correct on fighters. However, was far as range is concerned, there are two components to shields, one component that stops energy weapons, and another component that distorts spacetime and causes energy weapons to miss. At long range, the effect is larger, so capital ships have to close to shorter ranges than they would against an unshielded vessel. TIE fighters only have that deflection component and not the barrier component.

The only thing I dislike about The Last Jedi's space combat is how the Supremacy's firing weapons have a trajectory arc as if it were a standard naval ship fighting in an ocean. Theoretically, the weapons' fire should keep going in a straight line, only to splash against the Redus' shield or just harmlessly zip past the ship altogether. Otherwise, everything about ship combat makes perfect sense given the universe it takes place in.

@dtw8446

3 жыл бұрын

I thought it was because everything in the shot is moving orthogonally to the blaster bolt.

You make solid points... you're still wrong about the weaponized hyperdrive.

*laughs in star Trek* You lose sheilds faster or slower whether the plot depends on it

@michelecastellotti9172

3 жыл бұрын

The ships also looks wuite frail, even with shields up normal guns can make the bridge systems blow up and damage the ship... its always something that bothers me when i see it

EC Henry, that was really well thought out. I wonder if these rules are in any Star Wars role-playing games.

OK, this was an amazing video. Thank you for showing that SW space combat makes at least a little sense!

Even in battlefront ll it might say out of range when you're trying to attack something

In Star Wars legends (maybe the new cannon to) there were two types of shields. Ray shields and particle shields, Ray shields could stop energy weapons like turbo laser and blaster fire but the particle shields would stop physical ordnance like proton torpedo and concussion missiles. So TLJ destroyed this concept with there not being a secondary particle shield on the Radits.

@nemdenemam9753

6 жыл бұрын

Maybe because the rebels saw the 3 fighters approaching and did nothing to counter it. If they had a shield to counter I suspect they might have used it. But that whole scene makes no sense. Why were there no rebel fighters if capital ships can be destroyed so easily? Why didnt the FO send maybe 6 fighters seeing what 3 fighters could do to them? This movie had no real coherent train of thought to it apart from very basic storylines.

@franticnoobs9187

6 жыл бұрын

Concept destruction was a theme in TLJ. As well as character assassination, continuity violation, the murdering of peoples childhoods....

@nemdenemam9753

6 жыл бұрын

Its a good way to introduce director of the new Star Wars trilogy. With new worlds, new galaxy, new people. At least its gonna have the name star wars so someone actually goes watching it. Well thats basically what he did with EP8 so at least he has practice.

@richardched6085

6 жыл бұрын

Fraser Douglas maybe the FO Proton Torpedoes overwhelmed what little Particle shielding the Bridge had (Most of it's blast was absorbed but it was still enough to incinerate anyone standing too close to the now destroyed transparisteel window) such as.... RIP Ackbar.

@richardched6085

6 жыл бұрын

Nem Denemam the fighters couldn't launch because Kylo Ren destroyed them when he torpedoed the Hanger Bay.

I'm absolutely astonished that they managed to get all that in and still portray energy weapon shots traveling through open space _on a ballistic trajectory_

My biggest peeve with space combat in Star Wars is gravity and how capital ships move and feel like battleships (the seafaring kind) and fighters like airplanes. In the past I have somewhat bought fighter banking as evasive maneuvers and battleships "sinking" as just a drift that happened to be in the "down" direction (Rogue One in particular had lots of those), but in TLJ there were bombers that dropped bombs and arcing shots and a definite "up" direction in deep space (not above a planet in particular). The bombing run at the beginning of the film decimated all the suspension of disbelief I had and for the rest of the film I wondered why in 2017 space battles still creates visuals that are lifted from WWII movies, since presumably they're for a different generation.

I agree with your analysis of canon but I disagree with TLJ being the movie that fills in the gap.... space combat in TLJ was the worst aspect of the movie .... bombs drop as if gravity was a factor , ships slow down after they lose” fuel” and you just freeze when sucked into space... All of these are total fallacy’s in space. Ships go the same speed forever in space (until it hits something) which makes the major plot point of the movie null and void... and bombs wouldn’t go anywhere if “dropped” on a ship... I mean seriously, bombs are probably the least effective most retarded weapon to use in space ... you’d be better off throwing spears out the windows!

@chrissonofpear3657

6 жыл бұрын

The ships slowing down without fuel is maybe the most annoying of the issues raised. Merely having a 'safety brake' is not enough in retreat situation.

@ECHenry

6 жыл бұрын

If the ships are under constant thrust (and constantly accelerating), then running out of fuel would easily look like it does in the film. The ships slow down relative to all the other ships, but maintain the velocity they were moving before they ran out of fuel.

@chrissonofpear3657

6 жыл бұрын

They wouldn't rotate/sink though? Even with the uneven centre of gravity like with the medical frigate?

@Agonis100

6 жыл бұрын

Reply to Chris sonofpear: My thought was that a manevering thruster must have gone off just before the fuel ran out. Combined with a sudden lack of thrust from the rear, the thrusters could have sent the ship into a tumble.

@andrewmccullough2159

6 жыл бұрын

The bombers used magnetic plates to launch the bombs down.

Good point, however i am curious as to what causes the bolts to lose energy/momentum in the vacuum of space. Moreover, why not just hurl a shit ton of projectiles/torpedoes at your enemy then? Law of energy conservation etc

@WarheaddVids

6 жыл бұрын

Juho Tamminen just because it’s vacuum doesn’t mean things can’t radiate energy.

@burnedbread4691

6 жыл бұрын

WarheaddVids true, but it would be minimal. Assuming it is plasma of some sort it sorta should act like conventional energy, there isn't much that would dissipate it.

@chrissonofpear3657

6 жыл бұрын

Turbolasers fire spin-sealed plasma, that needs to be contained within an 'energy' packet over long distances. It looks like that bit shatters first, either on impact or across certain distances where power falls off. Freeze frame some scenes of Princess Leia's ship being hit to seem some shield impacts 'splintering' the laser bolt.

@chrissonofpear3657

6 жыл бұрын

That was the main explanation given in sources over the last twenty years, at any rate.

@kenji214245

6 жыл бұрын

Space is not cold "subzero" In that way though. Since heat doesn't behave like heat in air but turns into radiation and all the complicated stuff >. It's way harder to lose heat in vacuum then it is in air or other gas forms.

This was a very cool analysis of space combat in Star Wars.

Great video, which actually raises a question I had for a few years. I always wondered why the capital ships never used some sort of projectile weapon for ship to ship, or space to ground warfare (I seem to remember that in the EU there were personal weapons called slugthrowers or something to that effect) If there were energy sources that could generate the amount of focused turboblaster/laser energy required to send at a target, surely a sufficiently large rail gun and dart would need no more than the blasters, while also being able to overpenetrate armour or weak spots (the bridge) over greater distances, depending on the shielding of course. I'm not saying replacing all blaster/laser batteries with rails, but it always made sense to me that they would have one or two railgun batteries for long range engagement, certainly for ground targets. Anyway, awesome video as usual.

@jeffbenton6183

2 жыл бұрын

"Snubfighters" had projectile weapons - either proton torpedoes or concussion missiles ("the target is ray-shielded, so you'll have to use proton torpedoes"). In guidebooks I've read, certain capital ships have very large Proton torpedo launchers. Also, there was this old cartoon from the 80's ("Star Wars: Droids!") wherein a "small Star Destroyer" is shown using proton torpedoes. I think the in-universe explanation why projectile weapons are rare in space combat is because they are expensive and take up space (not to mention the recoil - which you don't want in space, but no one really mentions that). Real-world energy weapons are in their infancy, but lower cost per shot and nearly unlimited ammo is often cited as an advantage.

It doesn't solve anything. This was always explained just never this clearly and literally in a movie.

This just adds more inconsistencies to the sw cannon, we already have full explanations for ray and particle shields multiple cannon books etc describing them and films with longer range combat. Also the reason the falcon is so close to that tie is explained in the making of star wars they didn't have enough studio space and cg was not really an option. But yeah, so many inconsistencies in tlj to call it coherent is just ignorance at its best.

@patrikrathousky5791

4 жыл бұрын

What SW films do feature long range combat in Space?

@larniieplayz6285

4 жыл бұрын

Patrik Rathousky idk

@dragonweezle4876

3 жыл бұрын

@@patrikrathousky5791 I can answer. None. None of them. Not a single one

The only two in movie examples of space fights are the one where the ships were ordered to get close to Imperial ships to hide from the Death Star II, and the battle over Coruscant, where the Republic and CIS ships once again are forced into knife fights by virtue of shear number of ships fighting. Fun fact, if you check out the background during the Battle over Coruscant, you will see Venators engaging different CIS ships at at least the range between The Supremacy and the Raddus, which is under 100km apart in distance. Likely closer to 80km if the scaling of the projector is correct. Those same ships you can see doing damage to the hulls. We have, right now, rail guns that can fire in atmosphere projectiles that can move at mach 7. That is a weapon whose slug can travel from the Supremacy to the Raddus in nearly 30 seconds. Somehow, thats still slower then the time it takes for the plasma in TLJ to travel the same distance, but that's because the director/people who should know better likely never figured out just how far apart the two ships were. Now some of you will say that rail guns are impractical in space, and they are, in real life, but in Star Wars, we know that capital ships can't move for shit, given 30 seconds of warning, they wont dodge a slug if they can't dodge plasma. What does this mean? It means you pretty much can't derive what is canon from the movies when it comes to space combat, because for one, we don't have enough "regular" combat, and two, its always plot armored and full of plot holes. Most directors haven't tried to explain stuff, and for good reason, because most space combat contradicts space combat in other movies. Inconsistent damage from fighter mounted blasters, inconsistent damage from torpedoes, what ship mounted guns can fire at and damage. Just shields in general. The Executor... Star Wars doesn't follow real world rules, and it hardly follows its own rules, and the more directors decide to throw what little rules there are to the wind, not much effort should go towards trying to explain it away. Wait for the canon people to say what is and isn't, and how what works.

Finally, the answer to a question that I’ve had since I saw this video in my recommended.

I love and watch many of your videos, but this one made my stomach twist at multiple parts. TLJ answers no questions about space combat that weren't already answered in the originals, prequels, or Clone Wars. In fact, it creates more problems than it solves. 1. Range was answered multiple times in all sources listed above 2. There are two kinds of shields described in the originals and prequels that they have stayed pretty consistent to. Ray shields and Deflector shields (aka magnetic fields). Both are referred to as energy shields. Ray shields stop energy and solid matter where Deflector shields stop energy based weapons up to a certain power. Moving through deflector shields is slightly turbulent. You don't often see Ray shields in ship to ship combat because it prohibits you from firing without lowering them (see Clone Wars). Ray shields take more energy to maintain as well. We've always known ships can fly through deflector shields since ANH. 3. Blasters are not used in space vehicles. They use lasers and turbo lasers. Blasters are only used in hand held or terrestrial vehicle application because of their range issues, accuracy issues, and the bolt losing heat. They are favorable in terrestrial applications because the energy output isof not as high as lasers so the blaster won't overheat as much as laser based weapons. TLJ caused issues by 1. Making Po'S X wing travel faster with an ancient rocket technique rather than super advanced ion engines 2. Making laser or mass driver rounds have "drop" while in space 3. Make slow speed pursuits when they could have just sent one of their ships ahead to come from the other way 4. Apparently having an inability to see or sense small transport ships when they could see and sense fighters 5. Changing how magnets work onon the magnetic proton bombs. Magnets attract to the nearest metal...which would have been the bomber. 6. Stating that the Raddis was out of range, yet recalled Kylo from destroying the ship on his own bevause they "couldn't cover him". Then why send fighters out at all if you knew they were out of range?

@JMAN-pg4tg

4 жыл бұрын

RJ's Day this man gets it. Thank you for putting the time in for a well thought out fact based rebuttal

@chriscapraun7471

4 жыл бұрын

I'll be frank. I dislike the last Jedi. But regarding your 5th point, the last jedi visual guide says that it travels down a magnetic "track". Not that the bombs are magnetic. But watching the movie, one has to wonder why they did not use proton torpedoes. I know the reason is because the director wanted to reference WWII bombers which is an admirable goal, considering that Star Wars has always done just that. But please indulge me. If they wanted to have these bombers be effective whilst maintaining the aesthetic, why not have the battle happen inside the atmosphere? No one would be complaining then about the bombers then. And besides this it would of been an interesting set piece that the audience have never seen before.

@Fallenangel0w0

4 жыл бұрын

@@chriscapraun7471 a magnetic track is still overly complicated for a craft with artificial gravity. In fact...a straight up mechanical track pushing them would still work in zero gravity. The magnets is not helpful in any way.

@chriscapraun7471

4 жыл бұрын

@@Fallenangel0w0 I agree that the artificial gravity should be enough. But it might help them along.

@seanm338

4 жыл бұрын

1. Poe's x wing acceleration really breaks nothing. What if the rebels couldnt afford super advanced ion engines? There are so many plausable in universe explanations that you really dont make sense. 2. Those first of all dont even look like normal turboslaers. They look like an artillery style hybrid. Who's to say the plasma of it isnt attracted to shields, or that there isnt mild guidance, or that it simply looks curved because of angle? There are so many other issues in other movies that all the fuss about this issue is overblown because people wanna complain about TLJ. 3. To plot hyperspace cords to send a ship around the system to meet them at the front is a) unlikely to work since the ships will have to go around celestial bodies, b) microjumps would put ships facing the wrong angle, c) you clearly didnt pay any attention to the movie in that the raddus is faster than the resurgent SD and the supremacy, so sending 1 ship ahead is not a possibility. Not to mention the supremacy needs an escort. 4. It's not made too clearly but the transport ships were very far away. Plus, the raddus itself poses heavy interference in that it's such a huge vessel (several kilometers long). 5. Clearly you dont know how magnets work. Electric motors work by alternating a push and pull current (++ to push, +- to pull). If the rails are positively aligned and the bombs were too, the rails would push the bombs. 6. Itd be nice if you rewatched the movie before criticizing it. When the supremacy enters the battle and kylo boards his fighter, the Raddus is in range. The raddus pulls ahead knowing its outgunned but it can, for now, outrun the supremacy. And since the capital ships cant provide support, the fighters are recalled.

Great video and it makes perfect sense. It was still lame that after all this said, they could have just sent some fighters to destroy the Raddus. Yes it was uncomfortably far away but 3 fighters crippled it in seconds. The First Order fleet had hundreds or thousands of ties at their disposal and never hesitate to send tons of them into a battle that will destroy who knows how many of them. I guess Hux grew a heart and didn't want 2 or 3 to die in order to take out the Raddus and the last remnant of the Rebels.

This is also a helpful mindspace for running Star Wars RPGs in. When I get a chance to run some Star Wars again, I think that what you've put forward is going to help provide a more solid framework when I'm thinking about how to make interesting space combat for my players.

Let us also not forget that for small space vessels like fighters and the Millennium Falcon, the ability to pass through shields is critical when entering open bay hangers. These hangers, like the droid control ship in PM and the Death Star in NH, do not have doors. Instead they have shields that retain the oxygen inside the hanger. The ability to pass through this shield means that a ship can come into a hanger without it having to be first evacuated and depresurized. Since they can pass right through these shields, oxygen atmospheres can be retained and crews can constantly work on the deck and launch more fighters without the use of a time consuming door opening and re/de-pressurizing moment. Just a fun fact that adds to your break down.

"This movie's space battles are coherent, use star wars rules well and make sense in space" Bomber Scene: * exists * "Ehhhh...."

@andyjacobs7010

5 жыл бұрын

Oh it works and follows the rules of space...It was just extremely inefficient and a waste of lives.

@davidthomas2870

4 жыл бұрын

The bombers dont break physics but they're really poorly suited for doing what they were asked to do. Obviously meant for orbital strategic bombing. The bombs could just get pushed out with a big magnet or a spring of weird directional gravity plating. They're supremely poorly suited for they asked them to do, and that was a massive waste of lives and resources when Xwings cary proton torpedoes, but the bombers make sense. Still not sure why the resistance needs a strategic orbital bomber though. Maybe it's all they could get their hands on.

By the way. Let's not forget one particular thing about Star Wars turbolasers used on Star Destroyers : they are known to be used for orbital bombardment. And TLJ shows it too at the beginning. Chances are, the energy dissipates far more in atmosphere than in space. Ans the distance between a ship on orbit and a base on the ground is far greater than the distances shown between thème Supremacy and the Raddus. Ergo the range line doesn't make any sense in the movie. It IS a legitimate plot hole. And this is okay. The movie is still enjoyable in spite its script being utterly dumb and outrageous à times. The more you try to defend it, the more we might think it's actually not so good and start to look at the things you pointed out, realizing how dumb such thing and such thing is.

@scottthewaterwarrior

6 жыл бұрын

I always figured it was about accuracy rather than the dissipation of energy. Leveling a large, stationary city from orbit is much easier than firing at a moving ship with a much smaller profile. Probably why they often stage ground offensives rather then just firing from orbit, as unless they want to kill _everybody_ they can't aim well enough to avoid collateral damage.

@thomaswoodfield602

6 жыл бұрын

Orbital bombardments are ineffective when shields are protecting the ground forces. Thus it is not a plot hole at all.

@yourewrong9028

6 жыл бұрын

Nub93 most fighters do have shields. TIEs are the exception, not the rule. Otherwise I agree.

@teoktb3108

6 жыл бұрын

you do realize that the fuminatrix's cannons are actual dedicated bombardment cannons rather than turbolasers right

@yourewrong9028

6 жыл бұрын

TeoKTB and YOU do realize that in many canon sources, bog-standard Star Destroyers have performed multiple different types of bombardment, from close fire-support (ref: twilight company), to Light bombardments (ref: Rebels s3 finale “Zero Hour”), and even to depopulation of entire planets (ref: Aftermath: life debt), right? Turbolasers are perfectly capable as bombardment weapons.

This goes well with Ecks theory as well, cuz eckharts ladder made a theory that it also has to do with advanced jamming and electronic warfare that spoofs enemy target computers at long range, forcing ships and star fighters to get close if they want to hit anything

This kind of shielding issue was also shown in the video game Empire At War. Some Zaan Consortium ships has mass drivers that fired solid projectiles at their targets (because of balance issues and in universe issues, they were fairly short ranged). These completely by-passed shields and tore through the armour of the enemy ships. My first thoughts (both playing the game and after watching this video) were: Why don't more factions use rail/ coil guns? Surely they'd be just as easy to maintain as plasma/ blaster weapons? Plus they'd have the advantage of going through most conventional shields (I believe there are different shield types in the Star Wars universe that can stop relativistic projectiles but I think they aren't as common). :P