Kronos might be discontinued but is still king compared with the Nautilus

Not loving the Nautilus but I have a Kronos that rocks, after 3 years playing it I am still learning, this thing seems to have no limits.

I would love to have had a Kronos. It was dissapointing to me when they excluded Karma on the Nautilus. Thanks for the video.

@dhpstudios2009

8 ай бұрын

I totally agree

@NightOrchids

Ай бұрын

I was Surprised about no Karma as well.. im sure i read somewhere that Stephen Kay went across to Yamaha.. but correct me id im wrong

I just bought a nautilus in the beginning of this year 2023. I own 3 Kronos keyboards. I can honestly say that the nautilus is a simplified Kronos. It does have Same sound engine. I have compared it side by side and there is no difference in sound. The cutback is in the built of the body: Smaller screen, Less knobs, Simpler look… not as classy as the Kronos with the wooden panels, abundant knobs and controls, and huge touchscreen. Kronos was just built like a tank! Nautilus is a great keyboard for the price. I wish I had waited to get the AT version. I got the original version… But I agree with you Woody. This cannot be the new Flagship workstation for Korg. Why? Because it’s not bringing anything new to the table or to the competition. I see it more as a transition keyboard in the meantime while they get a true flagship out. the Kronos was out for over a decade. technically speaking, it’s still alive within the nautilus. Just with a simpler body. I hope Korg releases something More powerful soon. I’ve been a korg player from the very beginning. I’m not loosing hope yet.

@dirkkeersmaekers4343

10 ай бұрын

I expect an answer from Korg about the new Montage m

@lunde28

4 ай бұрын

I am a Kronos X player and will now be even more careful with my backups. Would def. miss the controls (faders, ribbon, even keypad etc.) I use them on every gig. Do you know if the Nautilus (if things should go wrong) can read Kronos setlists, ksc, ksf etc. files?

@dimitriboris5974

2 ай бұрын

Wow

How on earth can Nautilus or any crappy boards like Nautilus be the flagship without Karma. That is too absurd even to think. Most Korg players Donno about Karma and it’s possibilities. Karma makes Korg unique and stand out from other brands

Aftertouch hasn't been a marketable feature since the 1990s, IOW, it's not some wiz-bang feature that you put in the name. It's a meat-&-potatoes standard feature that, if left out (especially in a flagship board), should be a mark of shame on the face of the manufacturer. Smh...

I think this is a trend of all all keyboard companies taking sliders off making cheaper parts just to save money I want the real deal let's hope the new Montage 2 isn't going to be like this

The Wavestation engine is also missing on the Nautilus.

The father of time can never die.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

very clever comment indeed!

@RajJaiRaj

Жыл бұрын

Not quite. That would be “Chronos”

Kronos is kronos. This keyboard is just a budget machine

I am pretty sure they will release a Kronos 2 replacement hopefully at the NAMM show next year. It is interesting how the big 3 ( Yamaha, Korg, Roland ) take turns with their flagship units release times and different feature designs. The Kronos was way ahead of its time but remember that was due to their incredible Oasys before it! In Canada where I’m located, I have many people who bought Nautilus but went back to Kronos.

@synth.s

Жыл бұрын

They had 2 years to come up with a replacement For kromos, the truth is, the era of the workstations is over. That's why Korg is not going to spend that kind of money to develop any other type of workstation. Instead, they introduced the PA5X as a very enhanced arranger since they already knew that everybody is using some sort of DAW integration with synthesizer for music production these days.

@xp50player

Жыл бұрын

Kronos came out 6 years after OASYS. It’s been 12 years since Kronos came out. Forget it, not happening.

@Mtaalas

Жыл бұрын

​@@synth.s Workstations are NOT done. I can't get a DAMN done with all the billion euro orchestral libraries and almost every other library for bass, guitar, etc that exists out there... because they are not designed for workstation use. The user interface isn't there, you need to waddle around with a mouse and program some third party controller or something to work with the parameters each single library presents. Orchestral libraries are basically all for film composers to replace real orchestra or engravers who want to hear what they've painstakingly written down and you need to tweak the each small minutia for example of your second violinis performance using hundred CC's to get something decent and usable that gets the point across. Workstations are not about the hardware, they are about the libraries full of decades of experience of these companies painstakingly creating sounds and user interfaces and assigning parameters that make you work FAST. The sounds are not t here to replace real instruments, they're there to get you what you hear in your head FAST and EASY. I've never used one single PC-based library (that wasn't itself a recreation of existing workstation like Korg M1) that's easy and quick to use and integrates into my workflow seamlessly. I'm a PLAYER. I don't want to program CC's... I'm a composer, an arranger... I want results when my creativity is flowing. I can always record real instruments later when i'm done... but I need to get the point across and not lose my focus when i'm creating something. PC based solutions cannot give that to me. They all require you to stop and program the notes painstakingly. Hardware workstations give you exactly that. They know what hardware you have, they know you're a player.. they put so much effort into immediacy and providing what composers and song writers need right at their fingertips. We still need hardware workstations.

@synth.s

Жыл бұрын

@Mtaalas Complete agree with you on this. What I meant is that we don't see workstations like kronos anymore, it's going to be a streamlined version like nautilus, or it's going to be fantom and montage, these are here to stay for another decade at least till one of this companies come up with a hybrid between a mighty synthesizer and a mighty arranger.

@mrdali67

Жыл бұрын

@@Mtaalas That's so true speaking. Even software Libraries clearly beat every thing of any hardware workstation, it is just not made for and will never be able to beat a good thaught out workstation for the gigging musicians. Most players don't have either the time or skill to learn all the key switches and programming that would require you to set up a comprehensive orchestral library to be usable in a live situation. If you can just sample sounds for easy use live and maybe use some of the onboard synth engines it's all we need. It's just a matter if Korg is willing to convert the current Kronos engines into a format that is easier to support on newer hardware. If you truely know the Kronos it's powerfull enough to recreate any sounds you might need as it is now. All we need really is a no limit on ammount of sound banks you have available, and enough ram for loading more samples without having to reload during a gig. And a better UI than the current one + a well thaught out software solution to support the onboard ui for easy sampling and converting directly to the instrument, which is where Korg failed with the Kronos / Oasys. compared to where some of the competitors are today with a much more modern and userfriendly approach. Even it do cost some R&D it's absolutely not an unimaginable thing when you see what both Yamaha and Korg delivers today in their Arranger boards that is more expensive than the Kronos 88 ever was and has a much easier approach to the common user and sports an onboard Vocal Processor. Just by changing the internals of the Nautilus/Kronos to a modern SoC solution a lot of the problems some users have had with stability would be gone and if they recoded the existing engines to VST format they could theoretically support any of their software products directly in a top board and still be selling Opsix, wavestate etc to those custommers that either just want a couple softsynths or dont have the 5-6 grand for a top board that have it all. A Pro gigging musician won think twice for handing over 6k if the thing works. Hell some of the top Analog "reissue" synths cost much more than this and they have nuch more narrow use ranget and yhey still sell.

"NAUTILUS is KORG’s flagship workstation. The successor to the wildly popular KRONOS, the range now includes two new AT models." straight from the Korg USA website. this doesn't leave much speculation as to whether or not it's the new flagship workstation or if it's the successor to the kronos. I actually saw/touched one at guitar center last week. what a sad instrument compared to the kronos.

It's odd to hear that kronos is now discontinued. I remember watching the launch event video back in 2011, I believe, daydreaming about getting my hands on one. I got extremely lucky back in 2018 and was able to get a Gen 1 88 key on eBay for $1600. The only caveat was I had to replace a D key and customs hit me with a $90 fee, but it was worth it, and it will never leave me as long as I live.

Nautilus is lower spec and less features all around. It's not a replacement for Kronos and we live in times when Korg probably couldn't keep the Kronos in production anymore and can't get the new one ready and/or manufactured for release... We're waiting..

The 9 sound engines of the KRONOS/KRONOS 2 Woody are: SGX-1 (SGX-2 on the KRONOS 2 revision and Nautilus EP-1 - Electric Piano CX-3 Tonewheel Organ STR-1 (String Modelling) AL-1 (Analog Modelling from the ground up) MS-20 Polysix HD-1 MOD-7 (FM Synthesis) Hope that helps Woody

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

haha, thanks for that. now do it from memory without pausing or saying umm or ahhh! :D

@lundsweden

11 ай бұрын

​@@WoodyPianoShackIt sounds similar to the Korg Z1 features wise. Or a tricked out Trinity or Triton with a MOSS board. But missing is the lovely bowed string model, and comb filtering.

Guess I’ll be hanging onto my Kronos for quite awhile longer!

The Kronos has and always will kick the stuffing out of the Nautilus. However, it makes me wonder what Korg has in development. It's not like them not to have a killer flagship workstation.

Love your videos, Woody! I came very late to the Kronos/Nautilus party. I bought a Kronos 73 about two years ago when I joined a friend’s prog rock band and it was (is) awesome. EXCEPT I nearly had an aneurism every time I would transport it to a gig. I’m no spring chicken and it just about did me in. So, having more money than sense, I bought a Nautilus 61. Perfect! Now my Kronos is a “studio queen” and the Nautilus goes with me to help me pretend to be my hero, Geoff Downes! 😂 And I couldn’t be happier (and aneurysm free!)

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

killer combo, congrats, best of both worlds!

They will eventually have to bring back the Kronos - I don't see Jordan Rudess playing the Nautilus live and he is their most respected sponsored keyboard player. NO WAY !

I would rather have my sliders more buttons and actual wooden sides a keyboard I play isn't just something I play but a work of art and yes after touch should have been added to this keyboard from the beginning. It wouldn't have cost them any more money

Kronos was the king of the workstations for over a decade. In that time, other manufacturers caught up and now I would consider the Fantom the king (the big brother, not the cut down version). Korg has been a disappointment in the development department for awhile, resting on their laurels for far too long.

@FugaziSB

Жыл бұрын

Fantom cannot be the King, it doesn't have AT, even if Roland says it does.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

the most up to date tech is in the fantom that's for sure, in the OS, software and screen. the newly designed keybed is fabulous as well.

@danieldion8825

Жыл бұрын

AT should not be wrote on a keyboard like it is something spectacular…, and on top of that the 73 will not have it. Let’s wait for Korg to release a Kronos successor…. Roland is up there, Yamaha will release a new synth in October, so pretty sure Korg is already working on something new… Started playing keys over 30 years ago, saw a lot of flagship comes and replaced by new ones…

@bigcdub

Жыл бұрын

Have both the Kronos2 and the Fantom7, I prefer way more patches on my Kronos, with all the other problems, the sound can't be beat...

@Jason75913

Жыл бұрын

Kronos2 isn't beaten, soundwise. It's also the only one that sounds closest to being a straight up Kontakt library in hardware form. With a few VA engines thrown in and the crazy Karma accompaniment engine, and then rounded off with a sequencer beyond any other current keyboard. There still isn't anything like it. Fantom is cool, but much lower fidelity and less feature-laden up to a point, but boasts better Ableton integration. Montage also falls behind, and it originally wasn't even going to get a sequencer, but user outcry caused Yamaha to cobble together some very mediocre improvisation after release.

I can't imagine korg leaving a hole in their lineup,

@robmlisanti

Жыл бұрын

Sales

I will not buy a Nautilus because of the cheap user interface: the cramped, slow, dense screen, the missing sliders and knobs, etc. This is a striped down version of the Kronos. Why should I buy second best? (although they made the instrument a bit more friendlier than the Kronos)

The Kronos has a proper control surface. The Nautilus by comparison feels like an appliance. The 73 should be E-E so that the player is centered at the instrument and acoustic patches don’t feel either an octave too high or too low. I picked up a Fantom 07 for a quick throw and go for gigs. The Fantoms are good and can do what you need but they don’t sound as good as a well loaded Kronos.

It would be awesome for korg to collobrate with apple silicon chips in their next flagship workstation, loading vsts directly into the hardware, small onboard battery for boot up in 1 second (sleep function) , retina display with 1000 nits, tons of knobs and faders like nord, Bluetooth midi function, also choice for micro kronos option for gigging musicians. Otherwise travelling with macbook pro with m chip and Bluetooth midi keyboard is Better option for me.

@Lael128

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like you want to dive into either the MacBook world or jump into the pool of iOS music production. I kept my Kronos safely at home while on stage I had a Roland RD-700 with my iPad Pro, USB96 Presonus interface (has midi I/O thus I hold it in higher regard than the red boxes everyone goes for) and nanoKONTROL2 to control all of the AUV3 sounds in the AUM host app. A good controller with built in interface would’ve been my choice if the RD wasn’t laying around. And to put things into perspective, nothing can replace my Kronos even though I have Keyscape, Omnisphere, Pianoteq, Kontakt libraries etc… I’ll always go back to the Kronos and mix in the sounds from the VST’s with it. But at this point Kronos no longer leaves the house as repairs are costly, lengthy, and not guaranteed! The Nautilus would’ve been on my radar if it had faders instead of only knobs. The sounds are awesome, and combining them with nice controller features would’ve made it my ideal choice on stage like Kronos used to be. Sorry for the lengthy reply, but I’ve been down that exact path you’re talking about 😅

@drtolgaege

Жыл бұрын

@@Lael128 I have montage 6 and stage 3. It would be fine getting brand new Kronos previous year.

@Lael128

Жыл бұрын

@@drtolgaege You're well served with fantastic machines! The Montage is very VST friendly in my experience. Having it with the iPad worked out well in the past for gigs.

There's nothing wrong with my Kronos. If the only distinction between old and new keyboards is the sound engine, it is no longer worthwhile for a person to purchase hundreds of keyboards. They should think about selling software separately from hardware. We don't have to buy a new PC each time a new version of Windows is released.

The Korg returned famous M1 design to 21st century,

Kronos has Karma .. Nau-- receip from farma Author -- blocks his own chairma

*Yes Woody,* I took the plunge and bought a secondhand Nautilus 61. £1299. Excellent condition and warrantied for a year too. I don't need aftertouch but I've got enough there to keep me occupied. I also have a NanoKontrol2 coming to make up for the lost of the faders. A good deal I think. I wonder if there's an aftermarket upgrade to a capacitive touchscreen.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

congrats, that's a killer deal! the nano working out for you? i've been tempted to get one. no screen upgrade is available.

Let's see if Korg and Yamaha will be really innovative with their new flagships. I am afraid that workstations have been attacked my contemporary VSTs. I play live and turned to full software some years ago. I sold my Montage7 three months ago. I will keep my Kronos 61 beacuse I love it.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

yeah, you're right, a lot of gigging musicians, including pros, running plugins on their macs with mainstage. probably a better setup for pro keyboard players actually, who have a second mac on standby and a tech to manage it all. if i was to start gigging again, i'd still prefer my electro or one of the workstations.

@AtomizedSound

Жыл бұрын

I’m not a heavy gigging musician but I never use any computer rigs with me. Just me and my Kronos 2 which has all I need to power through shows. That’s not to say one day I might not fool around with them but I prefer a more steam lined approach when playing live

@furiobisotti8150

10 ай бұрын

@@WoodyPianoShack I prefer hugely two midi controllers, a MacBookPro driving GigPerformer and a huge bunch of virtual instruments. I learnt how to make it fast. People tell me that my organ and synth sounds are great. I won't get back unless I see a workstation giving me same flexibility and same power.

Loren Gold, the Touring Keyboardist for The Who used 2 Korg Kronos in his Stage Setup during The Who’s 2022 North American Tour. However it looks like he switched to using 2 Korg Nautilus’ as evidenced by the pictures he posts on his Instagram.

@bldn10

7 ай бұрын

Does he have an "arrangement" w/ Korg?

I bought the Nautilus years ago. I don't know about it being the new flagship. people love the nine faders and Wavestate joystick. Montage is coming out anew in October. I think something new will be out.

Kronos is still King of the workstation keyboards over the Nautilus. It’s a shame they discontinued it but it had to happen eventually. Hopefully the next successor to the Kronos in its power and capabilities will be phenomenal

I own a triton 88, oasys 88, kronos 61 and 88. The nautilus isn’t a step forward other than in its price. The loss of karma is tremendous loss. I’ll stick with my boards and look forward to them blowing us away.

KRONOS is still KING for me, period.

I was never impressed w the sound engines from the Kronos vs the sound of my old Triton Extreme. Kronos had a hollow bland sound in my opinion... Unlike Kurzweil and Yamaha at the time .. I still love my TE

Korg will have something more expensive for sure. They are gonna run out stock and announce something amazing for sure. They make fantastic workstations.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

i agree, and they recently launched a massively exoenseive arranger keyboard, so still making tbe high-end stuff, so apparently a market for it.

Lack of controls was my number one reason to buy Nautlius 73. When u play, you need only the keys and one button to change sound. Outside this is midpriced, inside top of the line.

Korg should have added aftertouch in the first place. However, aftertouch is a poorly supported feature in today's top tier keyboard sound collections such as the Kronos, Montage & Fantom. In decades past, aftertouch was a very well supported feature on keyboards such as the Korg M1 where you couldn't live without it. Kronos vs Nautilus. The number one difference is software compatibility. The Kronos was a platform that was very popular and around for a decade. With today's modern workstation style synths, they are essentially a computer platform. Imagine if Microsoft came out with a new version of Windows that was totally or highly incompatible with previous versions of Windows. It probably wouldn't be too popular. And also asking for the users to learn how to drive all over again how to operate it. This is essentially what Korg did with the Nautilus. Due to numerous complaints, the Nautilus went from totally incompatible with the many Kronos sound libraries to "partly" compatible. Many great Kronos sound collections are incompatible with Nautilus. A high percentage. The physical differences between the Kronos & Nautilus are far less significant than the lack of compatibility and that the keyboard operates differently too. This also means all the tons of online Kronos support doesn't apply to the Nautilus. When Yamaha's MODX came out, the MODX6 was just $1299 and the Nautilus at least $2000 or maybe $2200. The MODX is 100% compatible with it's big brother the Montage, but also the highly popular MOTIF series and the DX-7 & other 1980s Yamaha's too. It's weight just half of the flagship Montage model. The Nautilus 61 by comparison shaved off just 2 lbs from the Kronos. The MODX6+ is now $1499, and the regular Nautilus 61 without aftertouch can be bought on sale for $1699. This makes the Nautilus more attractive than it used to be, but still you have to carry almost double the weight to gigs, you have fewer sound collections available to buy for the Nautilus, far less tech support resources online of getting help. The MODX ecosystem is much better than the Nautilus, and this is one of the things that makes it so popular. $1699 is probably blow out pricing for the Nautilus as the real new price is $2199 now with aftertouch (but again, not as well supported of a feature as with older synths). The MODX has a large touch screen which I don't struggle to see also. I tend to think the Nautilus has sold poorly against the MODX, but I don't have sales figures. Every store I've been in tells me the MODX has sold like hot cakes. My best guess is Korg sooner rather than later will have an entirely different new flagship synth that is totally incompatible with the Nautilus and the Kronos. And a total lack of future sound collections will be made for Nautilus. Yamaha likely will make their next synths fully compatible with the Montage, MODX, MOTIF's & DX-7. I feel that alone is a huge advantage. I still runs tons of 10 - 20 year old software on my Windows laptop. With Korg, all to often they like to abandon their users when moving forward.

I think that we definetly use too much faders for quick values controls. So every keyboard that steps in, should get them. And about the AfterTouch thing, yes. I always talk with keyboard fellows that all (or most) of the keyboards should have it since it was created. I know that the companies are traying us to buy a new keyboard as asoon as they release a new one, but they have to start thinking about environement polution. Those capricious business techniques has to end. Let´s get more into the digital developement. Let´s build a really nice, complete and sustainable hardware and make updates and new function only with the IT developement. Awesome video Woody. Regards

I think you didn't mention the tonewheel organ, or I missed it. It seems like the Nautilus is similar to the Modx+ in that it came out after the flagship, but now the Montage and the Kronos are discontinued and neither the Nautilus nor Modx are as capable. Its clear Yamaha has an entirely new product on the horizon, I think KORG should too, or they just decided that its too crowded and would rather offer something closer to a flagship but more affordable. The problem here is Korg made it all about menu diving, so whats the target? Gigging? Studio? I don't know, but if they were leaning towards gigging they should have put drawbars at the very least. they might as well put a spot of velcro for the IPAD to rest on top for all the unused real estate.

Wow Korg the upgrade should be free to existing users who purchased the Nautilus expecting it to be a true replacement for the Kronos paid 2300 for the 88 key keyboard. Korg has really lost it. Why on earth would they not include aftertouch in the flagship workstation period? 300 add on? Why? It should have been there to begin with... This was a response to customer complaints I am very sure, however wow they are not the same company they use to be. While I love the sound of the Nautilus I am just taken back by how much it is the same as the Kronos. They didn't do very much to make it a better workstation. They streamlined it by removing some of the menus and downsizing the screen and removing aftertouch.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

free upgrade... now that's an interesting idea, like a product recall in the automotive industry!

@Ast3rixMusic

10 ай бұрын

@@WoodyPianoShack Yes considering I paid close to $3,000 I expected it to have all the normal items a workstation should have in this price range. They didn't do much in changing the sound and we still have the same tired workflow that is more than 20 years old at this point. I can live without karma, but the sequencer needs to be replaced period.

The standard Nautilus I think responds to a keyboard with AT even though it's keyboard does not have the feature. When originally launched I thought the price was too high so waited until last summer when picked up a new 73 model for around £1550. These new 66 and 88 versions are retailing around £600 more for the AT key bed so wondering if a better route would be to invest in a 66 or 88 Komplete Kontrol instead, that does have AT. So a much bigger bang for your buck considering the options you then have at your fingertips even just sticking with the free bundled NI software. Of course if a gigging musician taking 2 keys boards rather than one, might be a big deal. But for those of us who use them in home studios probably very much worth considering as an alternative. One other issue with the Nautilus is that it uses the Korg USB Driver which makes it ridiculously complicated to hook up to a windows PC if you have lots of other MIDI gear. Simply as unless the Nautilus is listed in the top 10 midi connections, it seemingly is not seen by your windows DAW. There is a workaround however it's overly complex and certainly not plug and play like similar gear from other manufacturers. I love the sound of my Nautilus but Korg do seem to make some very strange choices with their products these days.

@abc456f

27 күн бұрын

I have an M50 and you're right about the editor plugin. I've got it to work but I need it hooked up with usb AND midi din cables. I would have thought Korg had worked this issue out. I'm getting near the point where I want to upgrade to a new keyboard and seems there are issues with all if them. Roland fantom 08, Yamaha modx8+ both have keybed issues. Idk, studiologic numa? Native Instruments? Any suggestions?

Korg are just taking the piss.

Hi! I think that the next KORG REAL FLAGSHIP Workstation will come with " Korg Acoustic Synth Phase 5 " announced at the Superbooth 2023. Maybe it could be the NEXT GAME CHANGER like KORG M1 - T1 - 01W Pro - Trinity - Triton - OASYS and KRONOS.

I find it really upsetting that they discontinued the Kronos. There's so much potential there and they could have at least updated the internals. The OS Specifically. 9 engines. 9.come on Korg! I spent 5K US on my Kronos 2 thinking that it'd be future proof. guess I need to rethink that. especially dealing with Korg. and they also removed the Ribbon control.

@jamesedinger4956

Жыл бұрын

The OASYS owners thought they would be future proof too.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

it'll all end well, imagine if the next kronos has 12 engines, the new ones being the wavestate, modwave and fm one (whatever that was called, opstate?)

@bryanskrantz

Жыл бұрын

@@WoodyPianoShack opsyx. I've had the VSTs of both and they're good engines

I think that Korg are probably doing something similar to Yamaha, but are less keen to share. After all Yamaha announced the end of the Montage recently, and that its replacement was coming later in the year. Presumably this means that their flagship product will be made in the same factory that made its predecessor.

..... even the grandmother OASYS rulez over the new kromes and nautilus'es ❤❤❤❤

Comparison: Kronos- 5 star restaurant------Nautilus-fast food drive thru. It would be like Honda saying; "The Accord has been discontinued." "Our new flagship model is the Civic." It's just a kick in the nuts.

@WoodyPianoShack

4 ай бұрын

yeah, it's puzzling, i agree.

well i have a korg m50 and it gives me problems and in my country everything is expensive😢

Are they kidding us? Korg AT-------Korg DT (Dnt touch)🤣

My suspicion is that they do have a replacement coming, it's just not going to be called Kronos. They have a lot to compete with with the Montage M and the Kronos was just not there. I'm speculating that the Kronos X(?) will have a much more powerful computer at it's core that will allow it to run many more instances of each engine along with at least 256 notes poly and at least 16 channels, ideally as much as 32 channels of audio out with a USB 3 based audio over USB interface, USB online storage expansion for samples, programs, patches, etc. that can accommodate as much as 4TB of storage, an iPad-sized, glass touchscreen at HD resolution, a poly aftertouch keybed, plus some other additional modulations sources such as a ribbon controller and even their version of the Yamaha "Super Knob." At least, if I were Korg, that's the new flagship synth I would build. I would also make it available as a keyboardless desktop unit and, also release it as an AU/VST3 standalone soft-synth.

I think they should bring back the Triton or Trinity BTW, has anyone every wondered why Korg uses a 73 key instead of 76?

I still love my Oasys 😊

What a shame to stop Kronos....

Korg has been unrivalled in workstations from Triton Extreme, M3, Oasys, and Kronos. This Nautilus is just a Kronos without some useful features (for me at least) like faders 🎚️ instead of only knobs 🎛️ and I’ve yet to test if it has a class compliant built in audio interface like the Kronos or even something budget like Yamaha’s MX line does. I love creating combis in the Kronos and the faders are such an easy way to adjust part volumes on the fly. They should’ve included at least four faders like the MODX and added a mod wheel to replace the axis joystick. When my Kronos broke last October, I chose to repair and keep rather than repaid and replace because none of the flagships seemed up to par except for some Kurzweil options which really had me thinking hard! Anyway, I’m looking forward to what Korg has in store for the future and by then my current Kronos will be over 10yrs old and it’ll be a good excuse to start shopping.

Since it says right on the Korg USA web site the Nautilus line is the new flagship workstation synth, that question is answered. Of course its been over a year since the last Kronos left the factory so that was a bit bleeding obvious. That the Nautilus is not as much machine as Kronos, particularly prior to the AT version is also obvious. Korg seems to be abandoning the high-end workstation market and gearing itself more towards overpriced single-engine synthesizers with its latest releases.

Pueden haber miles de modelos nuevos, pero como Kronos 2,no hay comparación,los peones trabajan para el rey,,o sea,KORG KRONOS......

Also unless you’re talking about the original Kronos and not the revised models, the Kronos hasn’t been discontinued. Well at least not everywhere as far as I can tell anyway. Even though it may not be on the Korg UK website, it still is on the Australian site. Don’t trust everything that Wikipedia says. Having said that though, I hope Korg releases a new workstation soon, and that the Nautilus isn’t going to be the only one. Especially for those who want more hands on control.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

interesting to hear about oz, but removed from korg's global page and not for sale in any european or us retails (afaik) means it is very much discontinued! maybe some nos sill hanging around down under, lucky yous!

An assumption, due the current economical situation. Korg doesn't see a point in releasing a "Flagship" right now. As they are not going to put a ground breaking (like the Kronos) Synth only to lose in sales. They will beat this Kronos architecture till people can afford the next flagship. Korg always seem to way ahead of the curve, like the Trinity, Triton, not the M3 & the Kronos. Nice video Woody.

@ChrisP3000x

Жыл бұрын

Just curious, but exactly what "economical situation" are you referring to? And why is no other instrument company halting flagships due to the "economical situation"?

@anijon

Жыл бұрын

@@ChrisP3000x So glad you asked.

@AtomizedSound

Жыл бұрын

@@ChrisP3000xgood points but then again what are the sale numbers on those “flagships” you speak of? Do you know? Or are you speculating? Also not every company is gonna operate the same in putting out products. Korg might be wiser and waiting on a more right time to announce and release a successor OR they are still developing it and it’s not ready yet either. We can argue semantics all day but unless you have raw data for all these companies or what there thought process is, we don’t know

@ChrisP3000x

Жыл бұрын

@@AtomizedSound 1) I never spoke of "sale numbers". So your dead wrong there. 2) I never made any claim that companies "operate the same". So you are dead wrong again. 3) I never made any points. I simply asked 2 simple questions. So you are dead wrong, .....yet again. You are delusionally seeing things that don't exist, and refuting strawmen.

Korg seems to only reduce production costs and technical support for products that do not sell as much. This already happened with Krome when they released Kross2 where they managed to give all the power of Krome+ kross with sounds from the kronos and they put it in a cheap casing of a Triton Le on steroids that they called it Kross 2 for less than 800 euros, much more powerful than the Krome, but without a touch screen (an advantage that it does not have sensitive areas in case it breaks). Nautilus keeps everything from Kronos but also has the famous PA 700, Nautilus is a perfect beast for a musical tool for professional arrangers, although I think they removed too many controls from the panel forcing the user to use the touch screen a lot as it happened in Krome. I guess they want to release more stuff as well, although the OASYS is for me the most powerful machine that korg could bring back with a new modern update. Thanks for the video, great informative job.

I tried a Kronos once and wanted to make a sequence … was very disappointed about using the touch screen. Very difficult to edit ,changing values ,… i work much faster on a pc …for a flagship in this price. Positive thing😊 Korg has generally great sounds … like the 9 engine’s. I have the feeling that they’re making too much different products and they lose their focus on the most important stuff. Why a synth without AT and now after few years. (The same with the prologue … nice synth but no AT)

Maybe a super expensive successor will come only for the professional musicians maybe with a very powerful computer and capabilites to combine any VST with the engine, but that will be at a pricerange WELL above what non professionals can afford.

Karma shouldn't have been removed from a flagship keyboard but i believe it is a licencing thing. Basically korg didn't want pay for it any longer !

Woody, I totally agree with you, Woody! I sincerely believe that Korg has something else up its sleeve for their flagship workstation; hence, why they don't market the Nautilus as their "flagship" workstation, like they did for the Kronos. It also seems unlikely that Korg would put the Nautilus up against the Yamaha's flagship Montage M models. I think Korg's next flagship workstation is going to add a lot more features, better user interface, include more sound engines and memory, and will start at about $3,000 -- the same starting price for the Kronos 2 61.

My guess is that Korg just wanted to cut Stephen Kay & his Karma out of the bottom line. Kronos is really designed for sound engineers who can wrap their head around Karma. Most musicians now days are looking for the quick & easy route. Hence, the rise of samples, DJ controllers & EDM.

I’m willing to bet that the next proper flagship workstation from Korg will have borrow a lot from the pa5x as far as form factor and tech..maybe some hybrid analog wizardry under the hood..but the Nautilus is for surely not flagship worthy..not by a long stretch in comparison to its competitors..they seem to be slow at development for a host of reasons I’m sure..I’ll be looking forward to the new Montage on Oct. …. my Nautilus 61 is for sale😄

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

good call on the shared tech platform with the new PA, makes sense. yeah, we can't wait to see yamaha lay their cards!

"The Kronos is dead" We have a comedian here!

Many companies are realeasing a lower tier product first to try and entice people to jump in a buy what they think is the top spec product. They then hope once the flagship model cones out those same people(whales) will buy that too. Many tech companies are doing this now, they are releasing their flagship products last once the lower product has sold well.

Seems like alot is missing here from the stable Kronos 2, which has aftertouch, KARMA, etc. I will not be switching.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

i doubt anybody would actually switch from kronos to nautilus, i mean it would be a downgrade right?

​@WoodyPianoShack The most up to date Fantom is the latest Fantom, but it's not advanced as the Kronos.

I ended up getting a really good second hand Kronos that's been perfect a few years ago. I got it for cheaper than a brand new Nautilus and it's been a dream. Just don't have the latest sound packs but who cares, just programme the sounds you need yourself. I love the name of the Nautilus and the design so I hope it sticks around, but as Luke from Korg said this is the current flagship atm since the Kronos is discontinued, but I see the Nautilus as a segue way instrument, this is a way to use the last of the Kronos in a smaller package to bring up their mid range which was previously the Krome while they develop their next flagship. Whether that's the Nautilus 2 or something else who knows, but we probably won't see it until 2025 at the earliest, you also have to imagine that their smaller keyboard range the wavestate and opsix might join the new engines as a replacement for the MOD7. This could be the perfect time for Yamaha to come in and steal some marketshare depending on what the nw Montage can do because the Kronos hasn't really been dethroned since 2011 and it's obvious the Fantom isn't going to do it.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

ah, interesting that you mention luke's comments! well, it is obviously true that it is the current flagship, but nobody from korg will say if that will always be the case, also feeling your hunch about the inclusion of some of the new engines.

I think part of the problem is just a lack of market for workstations it seems like, more and more people are even gigging with plugins and the workstation has been a hard sell outside of a certain niche of studio users as well so the market has been having it's lunch ate at both ends. Plus they just don't have the same kind of mind share they had even 10 years ago so I'm sure sales have started slumping, I know most workstations have basically never been out of stock at a lot of the bigger dealers for years now and that's not a good sign with such low volumes they buy stock of them at.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

all great points, thanks for sharing! i happen to know that component shortages and manufacturing process issues have caused the stock issues, the demand for workstations has been there but not the supply.

Well Korg is now about to sell the 600 euro Wavestate/Opsix with a 61 key keybed for about 3-4 times the price. So it looks like they found their new cash-cow.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

yeah, a lucrative price bump for more keys or AT!

I was fortunate to buy an 88 version of the Kronos 2. I did not realize what i bought until much later, because i was only thinking I was upgrading from my 88 key Trinity Pro 3 (which still works great, if archaic. I did buy a Roland Fantom 7 and the updated software is easier to navigate, i don’t feel it is as powerful as the Kronos in a number of ways. I was waiting for the Kronos replacement but caved in when I heard about the very sophisticated Pa5X. I bought the 76 key version. Yeah, its an arranger, but compliments my Kronos, Fantom 7 and an Integra 7 Rackmount rompler, by making life easier. Now, I still look forward to a new Korg flagship workstation but really like my Pa5X flagship arranger, and like it more than the Genos i tried. Come on, Korg, bring out a new flagship workstation! Can’t your decern that we all love(d) the Kronos for an entire decade? They would sell like hotcakes 😊

I’m happy I was able to buy a K273 and a Kx61. And will hold on to them. But but there is stuff I don’t like about the Kronos. The long start up time and heavy board. And now when they have discontinued it. Makes it even harder to get one for gigs when you can’t bring it with you when have to travel to different countries.. I dunno I don’t like the keybed on the nautilus. Hopefully they working on a new flagship!

I don't like the Nautilus. I had the Kronos X almost 10 years ago when it was the newest flagship model, and I loved it, except for one thing -- it booted up forever. I could turn it on, then go and take a shit and wash my hands, come back, and it would still load the system... Now I have the M3 Xpanded, it also slow to boot, but still much quicker than Kronos. Triton and Trinity are very quick, I mostly use those in my studio. I also have the M1 and 01/Wfd, they practically don't even boot, lol, I turn them on and they're ready in 1-2 seconds. :D

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

haha, the naut is just as slow as the kron, don't bother me, i just power it up a long time before i actually need it, go do something else, then it's ready to go when I return! the other day I had it hang up a few times on me, then the unwanted and forced reboot time was super annoying.

@Roboprogs

Жыл бұрын

Power up Nautilus 61, power up Casio 88. Noodle on Casio until Nautilus starts making noises (via USB MIDI from the Casio). Or just make coffee or hit the restroom ;-) I love my N61, except for the 2 1/3 minute boot time.

I am sure a new flagship Korg will be along before too long. Korg won't leave themselves looking like they aren't competing on equal grounds with their main competitors. But I think we might see a significant jump in price to the Kronos replacement: possibly 5000-7000. This is complete speculation and based on absolutely nothing whatsoever though.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

thanks, and I think you're right, the new NS4 that everyone is gushing about is priced close to that ballpark.

I'm pretty sure this is a calculated move in anticipation of what Yamaha will bring in the coming months, it's also not a coincidence that Yamaha also discontinued the Montage. Besides, these companies have a pretty good idea of what the other is doing, so they'll try to be as competitive as they can without stepping toes.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

that's a good and interesting theory, thx for sharing!

Nautilus = NO Karma, no vector, No bigger screen, no solid body . And is going to be the flagship..! 🤣😂

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

the body is solid, if i get what you mean, and vector synthesis is there, albeit with a virtual on-screen stick!

I'm buying a Nautilus AT when they get them in stock. I have an old Yamaha Motif 6and it still works after 20 years, but it's about time I got something else and I think the Nautilus AT has the type of sequencer I can work with. I also still have a Korg T3 that I have not used in a while , but it was also working last time I set it up.

@dvamateur

Жыл бұрын

Good choice! The Nautilus AT is wonderful instrument. By the way, I also have a T3.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

i still love the motif range! just a warning tho, not sure if you will find the naut sequencer workflow significantly easier than the mo though, from my own experience, I struggle with both!

@dvamateur

Жыл бұрын

@WoodyPianoShack Even when the M1 came out, MIDI sequencing with a personal computer was becoming the way to go. Cubase came out a year after the M1, as far as I remember, and it changed the way people sequenced music to this day.

Whaaaaa? First the Montage, now the Kronos?

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

well, the kronos disappeared several months ago, but the curious AT launch made the news this week,

I’ll bet it came down to their endorsees baulking at the lack of aftertouch.

I've still got the "MADE IN JAPAN" sticker on the top key of my Kronos 61. I wonder if the new Kronos will have one?

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

nice 1, i can tell you that my naut has that sticker too!

Thank you for this awesome overview of the Korg situation, Woody. I'm still rocking my 1999 Triton Classic, currently on my second Maxwell box of floppies full of templates. The touchscreen is almost invisible by now but I still can operate it. I think Korg added that beep option on the touchscreen function to help me work with the interface when in 2023 the screen fades 😅 Apart from the screen, everything else is working as new.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

congrats on your trit! yeah, the one I borrowed was dim too. i liked that beep too. don't think the naut has that feedback which is a pity, someone correct me if i'm wrong! getting flashbacks thinking about all those floppies!

@EricFraga

Жыл бұрын

You're the best, Woody.

Korg have moved away from the discontinued pc internals of the kronos ( intel atom and mb are getting rare ) and they have invested their resources in the raspberry pi platform, this also makes it easier to have native vst versions like they have with modwave/opsix etc. the next flagship will be on this platform

@Mtaalas

Жыл бұрын

You're mad as a hatter. Raspberry-pi is not suitable for replacement. I'm electronics designer, there's much MUCH more things needed from hardware than just cores and clock speed for it to be usable in a workstation synthesizer.

@Jason75913

Жыл бұрын

They should have gone with ARM SoCs like most other equipment manufacturers. But we'll see what they accomplish with Raspberry Pi.

@dbefore7165

Жыл бұрын

@@Mtaalas korg already said they have invested heavily into the pi platform and there's more instruments coming based on it. maybe you should tell them they are wrong?!

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

yes, iirc, it has been confirmed that there was PI in the wavestate. all these modern workstations are running some kind of stripped down linux I believe, so why not use the PI?

@Jason75913

Жыл бұрын

@@WoodyPianoShack Linux/unix/whatever because of their ARM system-on-chip (SoC) processors, you even see them in MIDI controllers (as definitive confirmation that when the firmware seems limited or janky, it is definitely the manufacturer skimping out on their customers)

I still have and use the Kronos 61, my only issue is the keys are cheap and the back ends of them break often, thank goodness for super glue, lol

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

oh dear, that is very sad and disappointing to read, i would expect better.

Now that the Kronos has been discontinued, I hope Korg adds it to the line of instruments, as a VST!

@GizzyDillespee

Жыл бұрын

The finally just added Triton not that long ago🤣. They could do it all except for KARMA, because they don't license that anymore. But they'll probably wait until Nautilus has its run, unfortunately. I'd love an iPad Kronos.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

hmm, that is indeed an exciting idea, but not gonna happen if it will sabotage sales of nautilus.

You forgot the Organ Emulator engine.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

perhaps a deliberate blunder to keep you all busy in the comments.....??? :)

This would be a great time for Korg to introduce something totally new. Something with a revamped UI, better sequencer and arpeggiators along the lines of the Motif/Montage. Maybe consolidate the VA engines into one and add wave sequencing and granular. Or maybe allow the addition of popular VSTi's.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

i like that train of thought! would be really great.

@markferreri5814

Жыл бұрын

I’m sure that if we see a new Korg workstation, granular will be added to the mix! This popular tech was just an infant when the Kronos came out a dozen years ago. Yep, as a Kronos owner, I, too, look forward to a revamped user interface.

I bought the 88 key Nautilus a little over a year ago. I enjoyed it, but I am a self taught player and the touch screen and navigation was too much for this older guy. So after watching tons of videos on the Roland Fantom, I bought the 88 key Fantom and gave the Nautilus to my daughter. Her fingers are smaller and being younger she can learn to navigate the screen and features better than me. I am still learning my Fantom though. I really like the Nautilus sounds. I also enjoyed the latch pre set drum patterns that would play with different sounds. That is something I do miss from the Nautilus. The electric pianos on the Nautilus are superior. The Fantom, well they are still growing on me. I also have a Roland XP80 that needs repairing. I like Roland, but I do miss the Nautilus, but luckily it is still in the family with my daughter.

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

nice gift for the daughter, lucky one! yeah, it's a shame to struggle with small fonts and small touch targets, the manufacturers need to hire more developers with experience of mobile app UIs and incorporate better screens with multitouch and gestures that we have come to expect, otherwise the interface feels old fashioned and clunky. also to give more consideration to accessibility for musicians with less than 20\20 vision. congrats on your fantom, killer board!

@thecoolestdad

Жыл бұрын

@@WoodyPianoShack Thank you sir. I will say this. Since I am self taught and don't know too terribly much about tech in keyboards, especially the sequencing, it seems that the sequencer in the Fantom is different than old school sequencers. I used to use one on a Yamaha back in the 90s that allowed me to play individual instruments on separate tracks in their entirety. It seems now the sequencer is a looping thing and I just can't seem to grasp it. So I'm thinking I need to get a multi track recorder to suffice as a sequencer like the old school days. Would you agree or disagree?

Korg really shot themselves in the foot when they expected us to accept a keyboard without aftertouch. With DAW's becoming cheaper combined with a growing VST market and Midi keyboards also becoming cheaper I have to ask "why would you need to buy a nautilus anyway?" The fact that most of the controls of the nautilus are now on screen pretty much replicates the controls for a VST synth so again why bother with a tiny screen when you could just simply use a VST synth with clear controls on your huge monitor screen. The only thing I can think its good for would be gigging. If I was in korg's development department I would be working hard trying to compete with Native Instruments and Arturia in the midi keyboard market as right now the NI S61 Mk2 is an fantastic piece of kit for a quarter of the price. Oh don't think I am anti korg as I currently have a Triton pro 76 and a triton extreme 76. Both now just used as Midi Keyboards with Spitfire Audio libraries/ Serum VST/ Spire VST giving me just as much scope and control inside presonus studio one 6 than a nautilus or kronus would ever have

@kptamc

Жыл бұрын

I think you give VSTs too much credit. They are a great tool for bedroom or studio producers but the problem with then is the operating systems/hardware that they have to run on. Win10/11 is just a mess. So is the Mac move to M1. People still need a hardware only OS-agnostic solution. You can turn on a 30 year old Wavestation and start playing. I have been in computing for 45 years and I can tell you how much software is no longer usable and 'left behind'. Something you did in a VST in 1993 is no longer playable. I am lucky enough to be able to run a XP virtual machine in Linux to hear some of the old stuff.

I was a huge Korg fanboy having owned over a dozen of their top of the line instruments for over 25 years. I find that the company has lost its way since the release of the Kronos and haven't done anything new or innovative in over 2 decades. I was indeed ready to buy the original Kronos back in 2011 but decided against it after working out that it takes almost 3 minutes for the instrument to boot up! Korg haven't rectified this situation in the last decade. The HD1 sample engine with its gigabytes of waveform ROM doesn't really sound much better than their previous workstation from mid 90s such as the Trinity IMHO. They took away valuable sequencer features such as queue lists and piano roll in their budget Krome workstation. Now they've replaced the Kronos with an obviously inferior Nautilus AT making out that it's such a big deal that they reintroduced aftertouch that their almost 40 year old keyboards such as the DW8000, DSS1 and DS8 had! Wake up Korg!

I still have a Kronos new in the box. I’ll get to it one of these days😢

Well. As you said it isn't a flagship product. More a midrange product, where the Yamaha ModX is specificly a lowend product that sounds like a flagship if you have an existing quality Keyboard to play it on. It isn't anthing worse than take the Yamaha Genos, which is also made primarily of what I will call "good quality plastic" to keep the weight down without cheaping out on the keybed even the original Nautilus lacks the aftertouch. It feels like a much nicer instrument than the ModX line and also cost more. One thing I don't get tho is how Korg think that 700$ extra for the AT model should be a fair price for adding an aftertouch strip. That makes the AT models sit just a tad lower than the Kronos price before it got discontinued. Do Korg think people is that stupid that they can't see this 2 step model to make people in 2024 pay practically the same for a Nautilus AT as a Kronos in 2012 ? I must say I fully agree with you. Very much doubt there will be a sucessor to the Kronos that will land around the 4.5 to 5K range of price. The market for this type of gear is just becomming to narrow to give enough profit to put the ammount of R&D in comming up with a new system that is future proof compared to software. to make "normal" users buy this. Korg just released the Pa5X last year to compete with the Genos. And the Pa5X Muzikant is just comming now. And I kinda think this is where you will see the most expensive boards in the future. It's more geared to the home users that don't need to be particularely skilled but have enough money to pay for a home / Hobby instrument that sounds fantastic, like Organs was in 70ies - late 80's. The Pro's today will be buying specific interesting polysynths they like and organize recording and software synths/Sample libraries on a laptop instead. Maybe use something like the new Rhodes or other competing "Stage Pianos" as base. This type of instruments with limited ammount of editing but good quality bread and butter sounds that is easy to arrange in like 4 sound zones is becomming more and more popular instead of a titan of a workstation like the Kronos that most but the really pro users never ever learn more than maybe 10% off it's potentials.

Not, nautilus It is not an evolution of Kronos, It is a step back.

@WoodyPianoShack

2 ай бұрын

true, but the fact is, this is the replacement.

I hope this heralds the introduction of a Kronos VST... if that's even possible in software with the Karma engine. I really regret selling my Kronos a few years ago, and can't afford to reacquire one.

Nord Stage 4 is more expensive than any board you mentioned and people are climbing over one another to get one. if anything I’m expecting an even more fully featured board from Korg to replace Kronos. Poly aftertouch and wiggly MPE pitch shift anyone?

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

uggh, no thanks to wiggly keys but i agree with your other points! :)

When I bought new instruments two years ago (feel like I was rich back then compared to now..) I tried the Nautilus. I wasn't impressed. Came from the Motif XS 8 that I bought in 2008. Instead I went a very different route (glad I did) and bought the Nord Grand and the Nord Electro 6D 73 (almost bought the Yamaha YC61 instead of the NE6D) I'm aware there was a Kronos 2 variant that was really awesome but they quickly discontinued it, and the regular Kronos wasn't much good. Am I wrong?

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

i think they released a few kron model variant over the decade or so it was in production. congrats on your two boards, nice rig!

@Hardts

10 ай бұрын

Thanks man! KZread just notified me of your reply - this comment right now, two months later ...@@WoodyPianoShack

I have bad eye sight, so that's mainly the reason I stick to VSTs. It's hard for me to read these (comparatively) small screens when I have my PC monitor to not only look at, but I can zoom in to read plugins that won't resize. It does hinder the workflow compared to Hardware, but until they bring back the display port, like the VGA port on the Alesis Fusion for example, then I'm pretty much sticking to sofrware. Hopefully they'll release a software version of the Kronos now that it's on the chopping block. Great video Woody, God bless!

@WoodyPianoShack

Жыл бұрын

i'm in exactly the same boat as you, and have to invest time learning and memorizing the positions and functions of the controls on the touch screen. the hardware manufacturers do not make touch screen synths accessible to visually impaired musicians, but thankfully on our studio PCs the situation is better. NI have invested in accessibility featuren for their controllers which is commendable.