I feel many of us would had been more on board with the story if they showed us his original downfall in the *beginning* to reflect his motives, but also explain the consequences of his ambitions to why we need to stop him - that way we'd understand the enemies motives, but also why to refuse them (Much like we did with Sargeras / the Legion opposing the Void).

Questline "punch Deathwing to the face" is way better story than Shadowlands and it takes about 10 minutes only. Lol.

@jacquesg9714

7 ай бұрын

Clearly not. Shadowlands is one of the best extension for the lore in wow, cause we learn about à lot about the death

@MrNeon311

6 ай бұрын

@@jacquesg9714 he doesn’t know that zovaal is a pawn and the true jailer is actually the primus

@brankodimitrijevic382

4 ай бұрын

True but they messed it up in the end

Patchy the Pirates quote about the lost SpongeBob episode feels very fitting here.

And thus the end of a villain that came out of nowhere, did nothing of note and died pointlessly. Well done, Blizz. Well done. It takes a strong will to stick to a theme like this with such dedication. A lesser company might just have written a better story, but I guess that'd be too predictable, right?

@michaelflores9220

Жыл бұрын

I gave this post a thumbs down.

@zachariastsampasidis8880

7 ай бұрын

Expectations subverted

@Midnight24435

6 ай бұрын

I think you're about to find out we, and Zovaal, got played. It's about to be an epic story.

For the love of the Universe, could someone, please, put Magni in the Jailer fight cinematics crying about the blood of Azeroth?

The jailer might have been more interesting if they had him reveal the whole "I will save this world from a greater cosmic threat by reshaping reality under my rule" from the start but instead we got a year and a half of "Scary nipple man wants to dominate us for.. some reason". Maybe with Microsoft taking over they will get rid of these god awful storytellers and give us something to actually be excited about

@infinitetroll03

Жыл бұрын

flip side of that argument we will probably get an even worse abomination because microsoft is second only to Amazon in terms of destroying something that had a script laid out for them

@Tony007corp

Жыл бұрын

I honestly figured that’s the way we were headed at the start, figured Arthas would come along long enough to sacrifice himself and tell us there’s no hope of changing his mind.

@imperius88

11 күн бұрын

Not gonna happen

This is the same thing that happened with Sargeras, he was afraid of "what is to come" and sought to conquer everything before whatever we are facing next would. It seems every villain's approach is to attack us before the (void?) i'm assuming, does.

@StevenSvN7

2 жыл бұрын

I read somewhere that this big enemy Zovaal is referring to is not the void, but something worse. Apparently, even the void is afraid of it, and will eventually ally with the light to fight off whatever is coming against the cosmos.

@abdulmalikishakbinmadihi2171

Жыл бұрын

​@@StevenSvN7 Can you name the source?

@craig3850

Жыл бұрын

@@abdulmalikishakbinmadihi2171 According to a book in Tazavesh, which indicates a 7th cosmic force. I bet it's what the other 6 cosmic forces are scared of and I think it's highly likely this is what the big "What is to come" is.

@LilTRoberts1000

Жыл бұрын

The creators of Zovaal and the other members of the Pantheon of Death created the cosmic forces. Currently all of them act independent of each other and/or are in conflict with each other. The void has always been alluded to as the bigger bad of all the cosmic forces since other than the legion, it’s what we’ve always fought. Now we are getting hints that cosmic forces like the Light and Order aren’t as “good” as we are led to believe. Just appears that we are going to go up against something beyond the six forces and that if all of them are against each other we won’t ever stand a chance. I just want a villain to just be like yeah I don’t like you but fuck that other guy I’m willing to join forces for a time

@imperius88

11 күн бұрын

​@@StevenSvN7 re-read your comment and understand that none of this shit makes sense anymore.

PSA: Shadowlands was rewritten 6 months before release. Zovaal was never the puppeteer, but the puppet. The Primus was the one pulling the strings all along. He recruited Denathrius to his schemes and tried the same with Zovaal but it didn't work, so he instead used DOMINATION magic. You can see that DOMINATION runes are carved into the very plating of Zovaal's vessel. On top of this, note how the perspective shifts as the cinematic cycles through each member of the Pantheon. All are from the perspective of Zovaal looking up to the captors til it reaches the Primus, where he is looking DOWN UPON a collapsed Zovaal. ALSO NOTE that Kyrestria laments his betrayal, Winter Queen scolds his madness, and what Denathrius says is extremely different and makes hardly any sense to the current situation -- But makes /a lot/ of sense if you read it from the lens of someone disappointed that their captor refused to join them.

@Sports5561

6 ай бұрын

This comment aged perfectly with what we now know going into the world soul saga. Sargares was also a puppet for the Primus.

@Joshu223

4 ай бұрын

I read that one article on wowhead some weeks ago, and this theory makes a lot of sense. But still, whats the goal of the primus after all? If he has so much influence about anything, will he come back and change the fate of something again? Will he help us to defend the greater evil ?

@L4DReaver

4 ай бұрын

Look, in all honesty, it's impossible to say. They scrapped this original (And arguably fantastic) idea to instead go for the basic pumpkin spice plot that we had in SL -- And that was before WW was even conceptualised. The Primus will most likely play no role at all from here on out.@@Joshu223

@KORNEWARRIOR

Ай бұрын

Stop defending this Trash.

This hits different after watching Pyro's video.

Chill guys. This was just a filler Episode! Hope you enjoyed it, the next Expension will continue the story of Azeroth!

@dallasscandling6329

2 жыл бұрын

For real that’s exactly what shadowlands feels like

@RumandCocaine

7 ай бұрын

1 year later

Nathrezim: Wait, hol up.... Why did you ask us to divide sh*ts in the first place? Lothraxion: I've been over that stupid plan long ago bruh.

denathrius should've been the main antagonist, but he would work in the shadows, like his dreadlord creations

"that was lame" such words can express what I'm feeling right now

@othonjoseph8049

7 ай бұрын

And the sentence "that was lame" repeat once again in Dragonflight. Another underwhelming ending.

And there goes my interest in the next expansion. Same ride again...

Thats a " OMEGALUL" ending

Remember when people complained Deathwing's death was bad for wow?

How would Zovaals universe have worked? Was it monstrous? I feel like we'll find out at some point that we were just dupes in this xpac. "Because the real villain was..."

"You preserve that which is doomed. A cosmos divided will not survive what it is to come" In case you wondered what he was saying at the end.

@brentdye1504

2 жыл бұрын

He said the cosmo divided had doom th existence about of the old gods and the other creatures of the void will return.

@patrikzotaj4528

7 ай бұрын

and void lords.

This is awful. I'm fuming at how fucking bad the story is, Blizz or rather Steve Danuser have no idea how to write a cohesive & interesting story.

Can someone explain how the helm breaking in the first place made the portal? What are Zovaals last words? You preserve that which is doomed. A cosmos dived will not survive. unless it is... CHOKALL? Chosen?

@Hvorgandr

2 жыл бұрын

A cosmos divided will not survive... What is to come.

@Aussielight

2 жыл бұрын

"CHAMPYON! Aye lad, dis here FOOK is stealin' Azerite! BREAK HIS KNEE CAPS - and bring me that shite, ya fookin' weapon!"

@Hvorgandr

2 жыл бұрын

@@Aussielight does he snort azerite all the time? No wonder how he was post-stoned.

@CazaliEiben

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hvorgandr I actually heard it as "what is due to come." But I don't think that's too different in the meaning.

@Hvorgandr

2 жыл бұрын

@@CazaliEiben sort of

sick i only had to wait 2 years and forget about wow but it was all worth it

I never forgot what Metzen said about the Draenei, and that they were the Protoss of Starcraft. If we follow that line of thought, Sargeras, Zovaal, the Titans, the Old Gods, they are all afraid of a being stronger and darker than the universe itself: Aemon the Dark One, the strongest and most evil of the XelNaga. Wow lore is always changing but I won't lie if this possibility is still left intact for possible use.

in the end the jailer ended up being a weakling, he would even believe that his power is similar or worse than that of archimonde

Don't cry because it happened, be happy that it is over

@dr.zoidberg8666

Жыл бұрын

Eh, shit writing can be saved with future good writing -- WoW has certainly done it before. Imho the bones of the SL lore (pantheons of the cosmic forces, a 7th outside force which chained the others & set the universe in motion, secret keystone realities for each cosmic force) are all good additions to build on. Also the SL explanation of Dreadlords & addition of Sire Denathrius is 100% a win imho. It's just the particulars of how the story was told that sucked & I think we can reasonably say that's mostly down to the turmoil in the company at the time & Covid.

@michaelflores9220

Жыл бұрын

@@dr.zoidberg8666 What they did to Arthas is literally the only thing i did not enjoy about the Shadowland lore.

@dr.zoidberg8666

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelflores9220 What'd they do to him? Nothing changed

@michaelflores9220

Жыл бұрын

@@dr.zoidberg8666 His soul faded from existence.

@dr.zoidberg8666

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelflores9220 Well yeah. & what's the difference between that & what we already thought happened to him? Going into the abyss of nothingness never to return.

The jailer looks so...hollow.

So why zovaal want to make the new era of death for?

my head canon will stay: he was cpminated till the löast second. the primus is the real jailer. Common, he invent domination magic...

all their resources were being spent on their legal problems cut them some slack guys KAPPA

Eh ...that was all?

MY ENDING: Zovaal is defeated but at the moment of his death it is clear his soul leaves his body, leaving behind the animated husk. He becomes part of the computer systems and the accessory characters are tasked with figuring out exactly what just happened...it appears like a victory but they need to make sure he cant be ressurected. His body is hidden and tasked with a gaurdian. And the Azeroth heroes are offered a choice to stay and help them figure it out, or go back to their own world with the tech they have found here in zereth mortis. What they dont realise is by zovaal going into the first ones computer he abstracts the 7th force of time and breaks the concept of eternity by creating a time tangent. Now the infinite dragon flight come into existence and the players discover how zovaals actions and his omni-precense through first one structures in the universe is playing out in our plane of existence. We then spend that expansion on azeroth figuring out how to fix time once and for all, tie in the WoD stuff for a content drought, and Dragon Isles finale. Have this be the Anduin vs Wrathion expansion, Bolvar is a charcter touched by dragon magic, have Khadgar come help by trying to understand time magic. It baffles me how creatively bankrupt and lazy the current team is.

@flaviustiberiu442

2 жыл бұрын

thats some strong meth

All these villians seem to think they know best for our world. You would think after Sargaras, these other idiots would back off and claim "sh**, you got this!" good luck!

so he's a robot or what?

@CazaliEiben

2 жыл бұрын

All of the Eternals are. Elune possibly is one, too.

@KORNEWARRIOR

Ай бұрын

​@@CazaliEiben 😂

Either the void lords , or leader of the devourers that’s eating reality in shadowlands. You have rares called “ world eaters” jailer body is meh, guessing that would be his “bones”

@robertAnthonyColon

2 жыл бұрын

@The Watcher true but the jailer is considered titan++ by devs. We did beat his ass with cosmic armour etc

@user-yk9kh3xu5s

2 жыл бұрын

@@robertAnthonyColon One Titan helping here, one there. "We" is taking too much credit.

@madmaninanoven4153

7 ай бұрын

All of the Eternal Ones are constructs given an illusion of being alive by anima. Literally had the Prototype Pantheon fight to get it across.

what did the jailer say at the ending I didn't understand it.

@KackfeeLP

2 жыл бұрын

I didn't understand a word from him the whole expansion lol

@ponca1813

2 жыл бұрын

You preserve that which is doomed. A cosmos divided will not survive what it is to come.

@brentdye1504

2 жыл бұрын

He said someone about the forces of the void.

Jailer And shadowlands didn't make Sence from the start.

Just like "AlfredCanCook" says: hmmm BULLSHIT!

Thank you Blizzard for such a perfect resolution to the greatest story ever told within the Warcraft lore. I have some questions though; 1. Why is The Jailer called The Jailer, when he was in fact "The Jailed". 2. Why did we not learn that these leaders are just robots in the game, other than a single sentence in the adventure guide? 3. What are those orbs, what do they do? 4. What was Sylvanas freeing us from? 5. How did the Dreadlords outplay Sargeras? 6. Why did you think it was a good idea to play 4D chess with Warcraft 3, and lazily insert a bigger big-bad into the Lich King's already comprehensive and decent lore like another layer of an onion to justify a shit story? 7. The Jailer was supposed to be the big bad, and yet he had at most 12 minutes of presence, we knew nothing of his reasons, or motivations, all we knew is that he is pissed off, he is blue and he has massive nipples. 8. Who is the talentless hack that wrote the story of this expansion? 9. Can we just retcon Shadowlands, and BFA out of existence, please?

@mayyarsaleh2774

5 ай бұрын

Let me answer your questions because you sound like a casual player who does not know much about the lore. 1. Even though he was jailed by the Primus, he still ruled a prison called “the Maw” and a ruler of a prison would be called a jailer. 🙂 2. We learned that in Zereth Mortis when we fought the prototype pantheon as a Sepulcher of the First Ones raid boss. 🙂 3. What orbs? 🙂 4. As she mentioned several times, the cycle of life and death. 🙂 5. They convinced him that there is no way to win against the void but the complete destruction of the universe. Thus starting an army to do that. 🙂 6. While the Lich King’s lore was decent, there has been some missing information we lacked. The helm clearly contained a new type of magic “death magic,” which did not make sense to originate from fel or order magic. The Dread Lords brought it from somewhere back then and now we know it came from the Shadowlands. Mixing feelings with logic is what makes people hate that Zovaal was behind all of this. Yes, he made a pawn of everyone. 🙃 7. Yay! We got to see a true villain for the first time and you hated it. Sorry that you’re bothered but not all villains are chatty. Zovaal viewed us as ants, something of no consequence. Now would you be stopping to chat with ants? No. He lived for eons and knew his goal, remaking reality. 🙂 8. 🙂 9. No. 🙂

@w0rmblood323

5 ай бұрын

@@mayyarsaleh2774 The jailer being a "true villain" lol Sorry, I can't talk narrative quality with someone who thinks the Jailer is a "true villain". None of Shadowlands core plot was anything other than a vague, poorly written disaster to anyone that shat all over the story of Arthas, the Lich King and their already quality lore that's why everyone hated it, it sucked, it was pulled out of nowhere, came to nothing and presided over the single biggest rejection of the games direction in its 19 year history (which I have been a part of for those entire 19 years, as well as Warcraft 2 and 3). It was such a disaster they brought back Metzen to stabilize it and take narrative control. RIP you my dude, if you think anything about Shadowlands story was redeemable I can't help you.

@mayyarsaleh2774

5 ай бұрын

@@w0rmblood323 Again, mixing feelings with logic is what gives casual players a hard time digesting SL. I answered your questions. If you think any of them is wrong, you are welcome to argue. Other than that, a simple “thank you” would be appreciated.

@szeplevente88

5 ай бұрын

I love this comment, thank you for taking the time, writing all this, I assume you liked the story as well, at first I didn't like it very much, but thinking back it actually made good sense, It raised a couple new questions and I guess that's what people didn't like, but then again Blizz can 'use' those new questions for future plot I assume. I actually loved Shadowlands the Jailer's desing is incredibly awesome, the zones were also unique and stunning, I think even The Maw was cool, sure it had some problems at first, but the feeling was there with it's ambiance!@@mayyarsaleh2774

@mayyarsaleh2774

5 ай бұрын

@@szeplevente88Thanks. I agree that it raised some questions and I will gladly wait to see them unveil.

What's funny is how the fuck jailer even knows about the whole "what is to come"

@CazaliEiben

2 жыл бұрын

Given that he was the Arbiter, maybe a precursor of "what's due to come" snuck into reality, died and then Zovaal learnt about it while judging its soul. While I'm not certain, I think this kind of excuse would be at least on par with what Blizzard would tell us.

I still don’t understand anything.

All what was needed was a little more story telling and maybe just maybe this old if made sense

No more?

I mean, i never thought I'd see the day where WoD was toped as worst expansion for me, but here we are.

@Gutvald

8 ай бұрын

At the beginning, WoD was way more promising than Shadownlands.

@kitsunefire1

6 ай бұрын

WoD was a great expansion, but was just never fully finished. Shadowlands suffered the same fate, where it had to be rewritten and the more notable trash in Blizzard had to be publicly executed for PR to protect the rest that weren't ever caught Shadowlands had the potential to be equal to Legion Instead, it withered away like Arthas

@krustyklownkollege7361

4 ай бұрын

​@@kitsunefire1 Like Sylvanas said about Arthas, we say to Shadowlands: "Be forgotten"

it is unknown if arthas will recover after disappears he will be return judged and redeemed after zovaal's defeat.

@madmaninanoven4153

7 ай бұрын

What are you on? Arthas is capital G gone. Completely. Not a trace left. Stop kicking a dead horse

So shadowlands officially feels like a side arc that’s not cannon. So how about this giant sword killing the planet still??

@dr.zoidberg8666

Жыл бұрын

It's not killing the planet still? That was literally solved in BfA -- it's just a feature of the landscape now.

A lame ending cinematic to cap off a lame expansion. Worst part is with that "what is to come" implies more cosmic level bullshit where we have to fight the first ones or travel to the life lands or deal with whatever the seventh cosmic power is or some crap like that. Never thought I'd see the day that we dealt with cosmic forces that made the Titans and the Burning Legion look like small fry in comparison.

@michaelflores9220

Жыл бұрын

You say that like it's a bad thing and not a basic storytelling move.

All the money was spent on the cinematics in BFA. This expansion didn't deliver anything.

After watching the Dragonflight ending, this one was not that bad.

@Eclipse4589

7 ай бұрын

A cosmos divided cannot survive… the power of family

That's it?

That was soooooo stupid. Yep Blizzard totally lost it.

Thus ends one of my favorite villains! There's a reason one of the items he drops as loot is "Leggaruds of the ultimate threat"!

After that Dragonflight ending I think this one wasn’t as bad lol, Really hope the Jailer we fought was just an avatar or some shit, like come Blizz… he’s the fucking god of death! He should have had multiple expansions, would have been better if we heard about him back in legion tho, wasted potential to continue the legacy of the Scourge and the Lich King, like this was suppose to be the Mega Lich King of the lore, and you’s fuck it up, but after playing Scalieflight I mean Dragonflight I think Shadowlands wasn’t as bad, 3 bad expansions in row tho… thank fuck Chris Metzen is back

@trymeout1091

2 ай бұрын

personally still have hope that the Primus was the real villain in SL..

I could have honestly wrote a better script for shadowlands in a weekend.. Like I been a lore nerd for warcraft for a damn long time (havent played shadowlands much tho) and I swear on my own damn head that you give me 4 hours and I come out with something 10x more epic.. that actually lame af wtf 🤣

What were his last words as he's powering down I literally can't understand it.

@CazaliEiben

2 жыл бұрын

"A cosmos divided will not survive... what is due to come."

@nathanpayne9903

2 жыл бұрын

@@CazaliEiben thanks

Wait.... that's IT?! I try to defend modern wow but BRO HOW CAN I DEFEND ARTHAS' FATE AND THIS GARBAGE?!

@Reiichiful

2 жыл бұрын

The error lied in trying to defend modern wow :)

@CazaliEiben

2 жыл бұрын

Don't defend it. Use criticism to try and get them to do better. Even GW2: End of Dragons' plot was thicker and more thought-through than Shadowlands' plot.

@michaelflores9220

Жыл бұрын

I greatly enjoyed the Shadowlands story with the one exception of what they did to Arthas in patch 9.2.

Shadow is coming ... A threat for light, order, death and other cosmics force of wow !

Just when you think they can't do a worse 'ending' cut scene than BFA's... welcome Shadowlands.

What happened to WoW? this was straight trash of an ending, I have played wow since beta and this was such a turn off. I am done with this game.

lowkey this is leagues better than dragonflight ending

@othonjoseph8049

7 ай бұрын

100% agree

Who wrote this expansion ? Could have been one of the best but it is just Bad, like they paid to make an ugly expansion.

@michaelflores9220

Жыл бұрын

Did you uusut call Ardenweald ugly?

crendor was right about the puppet controlling the puppet controlled by the puppet controlled by the puppet who was manipulated by the other puppet beong controlled by the puppet... no masterminds. just infinite puppets in a fibonacci sequence in perpetua

@Sorenthaz

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like Naruto without the flashy fights.

Lol wut

I had no expectations. But HOLY FUCK blizzard. That was the lamest cinematic ever

It could have been a better ending... but not the worst in WoW history...

You know what? The end of shadowlands is allitle pathetic, Arthas is dead in evry part, Zoval was "lord" of death and after dead and wahat? he was just defeted as normal mob. I think the end of shadowland can by end of world of warcraft. What next? Old gods - dead, outland lords- dead, Lich King - dead, Ctaclysm - end, difrent reality(WoD) - dead, legion - dead, batttle between allaine and horde- dead(not excaly). So we will fight with creators of warcraft world? I know nothing can by forever but this is a little bit sad. Mayby i was growing with warcraft universum and this is reason(?)

@michaelflores9220

Жыл бұрын

Other titan level beings showing up is'nt a "a normal mob".

@patrikzotaj4528

7 ай бұрын

very shameful for arthas.

I actually kinda liked the story of SL..idk why people hate it so much. Granted I didn’t play WOTLK but still, it’s a decent story

@vandamer1297

2 жыл бұрын

Same, i like Jailer, in my opinion he was trying to convince others from pantheon of death to join him in his cause versus this cosmic power that i assume is void. but they have seen his as a heretic i guess

@TonyWoW01

2 жыл бұрын

@@vandamer1297 i think people dislike it because it’s plot has been “old hat” and Blizzard in general has been like that for a while now. There’s a lot of bigger picture stuff being focussed on which is then conquered but isn’t actually the real threat and then you are thrusted into ala dbz. There’s the misunderstood villain with the redemption arc over and over. I agree it isn’t a terrible story but how many times can they draw obvious parallels in a way that can keep being satisfying. Over time Kerrigan, Sylvanas, Arthas, Kil Jaeden, Sargeras and now the Jailor are all major characters that revealed themselves to be the same kind of character with the same development points at the end of their story arcs.

@Anghroth

2 жыл бұрын

isolated, it would have been a nice story, that's true. I kinda liked the storylines of all the different realms of the Shadowlands too, but the major problem a lot of people, including me, have is the way the Jailer was introduced and how important he was portrayed. The Warcraft story exists for 25 years, we've had our ups and downs, major villains, really well thought out plots and plot twists and so on. And NOW, all of a sudden, here comes the Jailer, an absolute Nobody, whose name we've just heard with the start of the Shadowlands and we are made to believe that he has been behind everything for those last 25 years. That just feels lazy and boring. And that absolute powerful Jailer, who has been manipulating everyone for all those years is now every so easily killed by a bunch of wannabe heroes? Feels weird...

@addxyz7925

2 жыл бұрын

@@Anghroth true

@michaelflores9220

Жыл бұрын

@@Anghroth He's a titan level being, you call that a nobody?

worse ending cinematic i've ever seen .... i still had hope but until the very end, they keep disappointing us wtf, i could have wrote a better script myself lmao

Fingers crossed blizz erase the entire shadowlands from the game too. That was a shit ending to a shit expansion