gentle filming to go with a brutal tale Great Grandma was Cahill from Catherdaniel great work , cheers

@forasfeasa

2 ай бұрын

Thank you very much. The Civil War era was a brutal time, but it is important to tell the history. Thanks for the lovely comment!

To explain isn't to excuse. Trauma begets trauma. Thank you for sharing 💐

@forasfeasa

Жыл бұрын

Yes, trauma does beget trauma. fortunately, despite the horrors of March 1923 Kerry managed to overcome this pain and suffering reasonably well. How it managed to do so is something that needs to be investigated more

My grandfather, Gerry O’Donoghue, was born and raised in Gortdromakiery in 1900. I never met him, he died in 1962 of cancer. He left on a vessel sailing out of Cork in 1920 and married a woman in Boston. I’ve often wondered ( my mother doesn’t know ) if he had anything to do with the events in Ireland at that time. My mother says no. And so my question is, how many men simply wanted nothing to do with it all, and just wanted out, to emigrate and put it all behind them. I think that’s who my grandfather was. Neither hero nor coward. I wish I had met him. He raised five kids in Boston, one son was a priest. He smoked a pipe, I’m told, and liked a hot toddy now and again. Thanks for your videos. God bless the Irish and the diaspora

@forasfeasa

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for your very interesting comment. Your grandfather was a couple of years older than mine (who I also did not meet). Leaving aside the political question, those were hard times. Ireland was poor to an extent which people don't realise now. My mother went to national school in Glenbeigh in the 1940s, she and her sister were the only kids with shoes. On the other side of my family my grandfather's family lived in a two room tenement in Dublin, when by great-grandfather died, this was reduced to one room. Some got involved in politics, others did not, but each person, each family had their own struggles and had to follow their own paths.

I once read a caustic comment about this time to the effect that 'The Bishops were quiet about what the crows ate in Kerry.' after prisoners were tied together around a land mine.

@forasfeasa

9 ай бұрын

Interesting. Where did you read that? (And they were...)

I Will Not, nor have i ever taken sides in relation to the Irish Civil War, other than to say, No Man or Woman of the Ireland of today have any right to point the accusing finger of blame at anyone for what happened during that terrible time in Irish History, other than to say we, the Irish People did to each other at that time what the English could never do to us, Conker and Divide! My Fathers People fought on one side during the Civil War, and my mothers People faught on the other side during the Civil War, to the extent that when my Father and Mother got Married in 1952 NO SIDE OF THERE FAMILIES ATTENDED THEIR WEDDING SO BITTER WAS THE HATRET LEFT IN THE WAKE OF THAT TERRIBLE TIME! Rest in Peace all, and i mean all who died at that time, and to never forget it was the English who were the Culprits in all that happened, and all that happened for the 700 years prior to the Civil War, as they did in many Countrys across the World! Just one more comment, had i of been around at that time in our History i also would have made a choice, as the Men and the Women of that time Did themselves, all of course thinking they were doing the right thing according to there Beliefs!

@forasfeasa

9 ай бұрын

The civil war left plenty of bitterness and silence. My mother's family is from Kerry, and I have heard lots of stories, but there is nothing but silence about this period....

Not just the English were villains. Strong stuff. Thanks mate

@forasfeasa

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Wayne. It was very difficult to make, but it is a story that has has to be told.

@waynemcauliffe2362

Жыл бұрын

@@forasfeasa One of your best. Made me think of The Banshees of Inisherin which i just saw

@forasfeasa

Жыл бұрын

@@waynemcauliffe2362 Thanks very much! It was an awful period...but needs to be thought about

@waynemcauliffe2362

Жыл бұрын

@@forasfeasa For sure

@waynemcauliffe2362

Жыл бұрын

Australia has bad stuff in it`s history too

Michael Collins died in an ambush in West Cork in the previous year Aug 1922, I`d say that had a bearing on the crimes committed 7 months later by the Free-Stators in Kerry/Cork area during 1923. Of course there can be no excuse for the barbarism and cruelty of all those heinous acts against their fellow countrymen, may they all rest in peace, thank God those times are behind us.

@forasfeasa

5 ай бұрын

Colins' death must have had an impact, especially since the Dublin Guard (led by many of Collins' men) were in Kerry, but what seems to have immediately triggered the atrocities was a trap with a mine, which blew four Free State soldiers to pieces (I think). Many of those of both sides must have been suffering from PTSD after what they had been through. As you say, thank God those times are behind us

Civil war was the darkest and saddest period in Irish history, way worse than anything the English ever done in my opinion purely because it was done on both sides by our own people , once Collins accepted artillery from the British and gave the order to use it on our own people it opened a horrific Pandora's box of misery and sadness which can never be forgotten or forgiven.

@forasfeasa

11 күн бұрын

Yes, it was a horrific period and meant that much that could have been achieved was lost. I would not put the blame on Collins alone, both sides helped open the pandora's box

Aye, frightful deeds indeed, though, fair to say too, has there ever been a war that was ought other? ...Only in fairytales penned from afar methinks. Thank you for your fine narration.

@forasfeasa

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment and I am glad that you liked it!

Remember Knocknagoshel. The three incidents were not even a response to that, it was standard procedure to use prisoners to clear roadblocks and abandoned positions. People were killed at Ballyvolane, Ballybricken, Carrigpooka and near Bandon by Republican booby traps. After booby traps were left behind at the Four Courts orders were issued to employ prisoners to clear suspected mines. Emmet Dalton ordered use of prisoners in Cork in January. Prisoners were used at inch Island in Donegal in August. A prisoner was shot in Ballina when he was slow to clear a blockage on a rail line. Paddy Daly lost 87 men in Kerry (not remembered on Ballyseedy memorial to "all") He was effective in clearing up the die hards in Kerry. The Knocknagoshel memorial was smashed for using the word "murdered"

@forasfeasa

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment. I understand what you are saying. Yes, the Free State army did use Republican prisoners to clear traps or as human shields, and various were murdered. However, I would still say that Knocknagoshel triggered the three massacres in Kerry. The already bad behaviour of the Free State army got much much worse, resulting in the Ballyseedy etc. Here I am following what has been written in several books, by authors of various perspectives, including a talk given by Tim Horgan in Cahersiveen. Having said that, if you can suggest other readings with other perspectives, please do indicate them to me, I am open to read anything and to having my mind changed!

@EdwardBourke-jv1ky

5 ай бұрын

I am trying to get information on the escape of prisoners set to clearing a roadblock at Castlemaine on 6th or 8th March 1923. It is important because there were no casualties and it seems to have been unmined. It would challenge the concept that the three incidents were deliberate killings rather than forced labour. There was another blockage cleared at Scartaglen without casualty but at Farranlough near Bandon three forced labourers died when clearing a second obstacle - the first was not booby trapped. a note in O'Malley interviews says "it was one of your mines at Ballyseedy" when speaking with a republican engineer - implying that it was a republican mine not planted by FSA. The death register only mentions mine injuries not bullet wounds which challenges the narrative. At Bahaghs if deliberate killing was intended why did the visiting committee have to go back to get prisoners and how did they get out to Bahaghs if the road was obstructed on the outward journey . The propaganda version does not hang together. finally war crimes do not apply, the Geneva convention only banned use of prisoners for mine clearing in 1929 and neither side were signatories to the earlier convention.

@forasfeasa

5 ай бұрын

@@EdwardBourke-jv1ky I am not sure about what happened at Castlemaine - perhaps get in contact with Owen O'Shea, author of a good recent book on the Civil War in Kerry. In relation to Bahaghs, it seems that they originally wanted the officers who had been captured in a battle a few days before. However, these had been transferred. They then seem to have picked the other prisoners that were available. They were driven down the road, taken out of the lorries, shot in the legs. Then a mine was exploded. There was no road block. It was a war crime. Prisoners were shot and then murdered. Ballyseedy and Countess Bridge were likewise crimes (as was Knocknagoshel). These atrocities are well proven and were different from the simple use of prisoners to clear road blocks. In Ballyseedy the prisoners were tied to the mine. Again a war crime. There is a wide range of historians and historical evidence showing that these three events were atrocities - and not just from republican propaganda.

@edwardbourke5240

7 күн бұрын

No there a series of oft repeated narratives without analysis - there is no mention of bullet wounds in the Bahaghs death certs, You mention that the troops retreated to a safe distance but both at Bahaghs and Ballyseedy there were soldiers injured suggesting that they were surprised by the explosion of the booby trap. Humphrey Murphy said a trap mine at Ballyseedy in one of the death certs - that is not compatible with a wire exploded mine. Even the Irish Times reported that Gardai at Caherciveen verified the Bahaghs accounts - no they did not, they confirmed that the pension claimants were related to the victims. It was Free State policy to use prisoners to clear road blocks which were presumed to be mined as was irregular practice since the Four Courts. As the republicans are so keen on the word murder then that applies to Knocknagoshel, Carrigpooka Ballyvolane and Bandon, it was simply tough that they were caught out by their own booby trapped roadblocks. Note that the O'Malley notebooks confirm that "it was one of your own mines at Ballyseedy" full story of mines and booby traps of both war of independence and Civil wat coming in the Irish Sword

what saddens me is vaderker and fine geal cnt correct the records on the massacre in ballysheedy they were war crimes my grandfather faught with liam mellows here in the west off Ireland god knws i have heard enough off stories handed down from generations to generations some off my family left after civil war to England

@forasfeasa

7 ай бұрын

I think everyone now knows what happens in Ballyseedy, Bahaghs, and Killarney (and other places) were brutal crimes. That is very clear and I don't think anyone can deny it. But I also think that it is important that people know that these were covered up at the time. I have heard many stories too, but most about the war of independence. In Kerry silence about the civil war was much more common. Perhaps because the civil war was more brutal there and people had to live alongside those who had supported the other side.

@edwardbourke5240

7 күн бұрын

I note that you list Bahaghs Ballyseedy and Countess bridge but ignore Knocknagoshel, Ballyvolane, Carrigpooka bridge and Bandon not to mention unsuccessful booby traps at Four courts, O.'Connell st, Inch Island, Ballina etc It took the Dublin Guard to sort out the treachery among the Kerry folk who tried to smother the Free State at birth having done little in the War of Independence. Note the British did not bother to place any Auxiliary companies in Kerry. There were five based in Dublin.

Iontach na suiomhanna a fheiceáil agus an stair bhrònach a chloisteál. Milé bhuiochus a chara.

@forasfeasa

Жыл бұрын

Go raibh maith agat. Stair an-bhrónach....

@elineeugenie5224

Жыл бұрын

Thx Google translate 🤗

They never beat the north Republicans

@forasfeasa

13 күн бұрын

Many - perhaps most - of the IRA in the north actually supported the treaty. I wonder what would have happened had the Civil War not happened? History would have been different, very different and probably Northern Ireland would have a far different shape now.

@user-xt2ge1qy7c

13 күн бұрын

@@forasfeasa Chucky r law