Very important reminder! My instructor taught me to land my Pitts every time like the engine was out. One day the throttle stuck at 19 inches of manifold pressure on a vertical upline. Leveled out, shoved the throttle forward, nothing, pulled it back nothing. Stuck in level flight at 155 mph with 1/2 tank, CAVOK weather, in the aerobatic box right next to the runway. No other traffic. Had time to plan my response and took the time to have both my instructor and mechanic review my planned response. Shut the engine off and dead sticked it in. Successfully landed without incident because of practice, No damage. Here today because my instructor taught me right. Not saying my heart rate didn't go up some. Pushing the airplane back down the runway was the hardest part. Cause? 50 cent cotter pin.

Very nice, I’ve had a few people tell me I was being reckless for practicing things like this and I have given the same response. Better to practice it then be ill equipped when an actual emergency happens. Good work guys!

@angleofattack

6 жыл бұрын

Agreed!

@2sheetstothewind484

6 жыл бұрын

Same kinda people ask why do you practice spins? Cause I can. bwahaha Progressed to one wheel landings in my RV-4 and my late great flight review examiner, Bill Gensler , commended me for it. Still proud of it and R.I.P Bill. He had over 30,000 hrs. logged.

@shawnmccrary5526

6 жыл бұрын

Trent Palmer seems like you’ve had a couple of those “actual emergencies”. Better you practiced then not.

@ilovelamp61

6 жыл бұрын

As someone who has just recently became interested in aviation, I can remember wondering why you would intentionally practice stalls and the like. It obviously makes perfect sense and when I eventually get my license I can’t imagine allowing myself to be comfortable without doing the type of practice these gentlemen are doing.

@barry7413

5 жыл бұрын

Wild and crazy you guys may seem, but never reckless.

“Practise until it’s fun”Couldn’t agree more! Great video and discussion that followed!

Thanks guys! A lot of good advice baked into beautiful footage and a good narrative. You are right, always knowing where to land during each phase of the flight - and knowing your limitations - is the key to safe flying.

We've done it in a Mooney M20C (1964). Min. loss was 200. But we did the turn up at a much higher altitude. Remember in the movie "Sully" the Govt. criticized Sully for not making the 180 plus turn asap. I thought that was interesting because we always hear "never turn back". But in "Sully" it was exactly what he was criticized for not doing. His best defense could have been "the FAA instructs us Not to turn back, so we didn't.' As a CFIA Since age 20 (now 65), I was always one not to poo-poo the "impossible turn", especially if the alternative is so much worse. In N.J. we have airports where if you lose the engine on takeoff, and go straight ahead, you're going to set a few homes on fire. A friend of mine owns a Mooney. He didn't believe I could do the impossible turn and lose only 200 ft. So we went up to the practice area at a safe altitude. After clearing the area, I asked him to pull the throttle to idle whenever he chose. I immediately cranked the plane into at least a 45-degree bank and pulled enough Gs to avoid a stall. You must unload the Gs to avoid the stall which means you have to practice this maneuver. Guess what, we lost only 200 ft. Then he gave it a try. After a few attempts, he was able to get it down to a 300-foot loss. Of course, you have to go slightly past the 180 mark if you want to make the runway. BTW, you don't have to make a straight in final approach. Just point the nose at the runway until you know you have it made. You can always align when you are on the runway. I've learned in a Mooney not to put the landing gear down until you know you have the runway made. Even then, the drag from the gear may make you come in too short, so be careful and practice this. We did not use flaps at all in a real simulation where we tried this at a desolate airport in the early morning hours when nobody was around. Jason Sneed is right, a steep turn is necessary. Point is, the "impossible turn" can be done. In some situations, it's the only choice in order to avoid landing in a residential area or in oil tanks like Linden Airport next to Newark, N.J. The decision to make the turn must be made BEFORE take off. And the altitude to do so must be predetermined on the ground. I know, I know, people will always say, always go straight ahead and never turn around. IMHO if you are high enough when the engine quits, and if you know your airplane and have practiced the turn it may be the only way to survive. After all, why was "Sully" criticized for not making the impossible turn? In the movie, the NTSB simulated the turn and proved he could have returned to the airport. However, Sully argued this was the first time a double engine failure occurred during take off and the "human factor" of the delay was not considered by the Govt. So they made the simulator pilots wait 20 or 30 seconds before they were allowed to turn back. It turned out they crashed into the approach lights every time. So if Sully had tried to return, he never would have made it. To be fair to the NTSB, they complained about the way they were portrayed in the movie and argued the situation was different from their perspective. It was a movie, not a scientific recreation of the event. Anyway, I agree with you guys in this video. You must be hair-trigger ready to make the turn and be very aggressive when you do it. You must pull enough Gs to avoid an accelerated stall. But it is the steep high G turn that will get you around the corner to save you. No wonder most people don't approve of it. You must be good enough to make this turn work. And that takes practice.

@CFITOMAHAWK2

5 жыл бұрын

Yep, LInden, New Jersey.. The highest concentration of oil and gas tanks around any airport in the Americas I was told. Mpst CFI's there practice this turn. Otherwise practice how to explode after hitting one of those tanks..

That drone shot laying on your backs was awesome! Great topic to pull apart - keep them coming.

Thank you for that top notch advice. Learning BEFORE you become a pilot helps the seriousness sink in! Keep it up!

There is simply NOTHING more fun, more rewarding and more comforting in aviation than knowing your aircraft, feel 100 % confident handling it and become almost a part if... You can only achieve this level of proficiency and confidence through training, especially when you do it with buddies and do debriefs over a steak! Your videos are not only super entertaining and educational, they actually show how you become a great pilot: Love flying, practice, play, enjoy AND review and discuss with others... I know way too many pilots that are only 60-80% on the way of actually knowing their aircraft and they never will be able to enjoy true flying like you guys do... 1000 % thumps up!

@jasonsneed3179

5 жыл бұрын

Best comment I have ever received, thanks so much!!

@UrbanDrivestyle

5 жыл бұрын

Flattered... Thanks!

In the video, the point about idle power is very true. In a Mooney, we can pull the prop back, but on the crowded east coast where we fly, we can't intentionally stop the prop during practice on the runway without somebody reporting us to the FAA. Also, it's just too dangerous to do in a real simulated landing down to the ground in a Mooney.

Thank you guys for that Video! I follow you around since a couple of weeks now and love the footage you Flying Cowboys provide! This one here should be mandatory for every Airman out there because you are so damn right, that most people who have a license consider themselves as Pros and stop training. I see that in Paragliding a lot. Especially the older guys who fly since the 80‘s think they can do anything but never proof it. Thank you very much again

Very interesting! Love it!

Watching you guys out in the open air flying your planes, enjoying the great outdoors before this pandemic, allows us all to remember what it will be like again. Be safe. I always enjoy your amazing flying in your amazing machines!!

Excellent!!! In 2012 I was a 75 hour pilot flying a cross country with a rental Cessna 150. I had done numerous engine out practices with engine at Idle. I ended up with a real engine out , fortunately near a runway and at patron altitude and I was shocked at how short I was going to end up if I did it like i had done in practice. Praise the Lord I am alive to tell about it, and I make sure to warn other new pilots that a real engine out with a windmilling prop is much different. I really appreciate people like you videoing this kind of thing for us to Learn from.

Thanks for the deep insights into this! This was so good!

Great advice. I have not flown in many years but I can tell you from my experience, if something can happen it will and if we don't practice emergency procedures regularly, we will be toast.

Great video Guys! I have really enjoyed the videos you all post! You guys get to fly in some amazing places! I appreciate the discussion and "food for thought" on safe aircraft handling in emergency situations and off-airport skills. Keep them coming! Thanks to Trent Palmer for posting all of his videos about your adventures!

Excellent video and discussion, gents. I fly a stock J-3 with 65 horses and no goodies. (VG's, etc) The most important skill I practice is aggressively lowering the nose at the moment of power loss. Even after all these years, it is still surprising to me how quickly and how much I have to shove. What's way more important than the turn/no turn calculus is building a constant awareness of where you're going to go when - not if - the engine quits at every moment of the departure. If you're a newer pilot, grab your instructor and go work on this stuff. Expand your envelope slowly. Understand that although Mark & Jason are EXCELLENT pilots, they are also exposing themselves to longer periods of increased risk, all for the purpose of being able to survive a cardinal event when it occurs. Regardless of the skillset, recognize that this is dangerous, dangerous stuff to be doing. Mitigate that risk with an instructor, (At first) shoulder harnesses and even a helmet. Happy Flying!

Thanks guys for this valuable input. As a flight instructor, I consider the safety at all times. It is sobering to keep in mind that our technique in the practice environment is not going to work in an actual engine out with a stopped propeller.

Very good comments on the difference between an engine at idle and a stopped engine. Excellent safety demonstrations and explanations.

@jasonsneed3179

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks

Great training video. Keep them coming!

Great video guys, I fly out of a small airport in Texas, last summer I had an engine failure on take off at 500' agl, the town and trees border the East side,railroad to the south, town to the north and a narrow cow pasture to the west. Luckily the engine lost a little power immediately before complete shutdown, so I made a down wind turn at first sign and it quit as soon as I was straight, 1 minute to the ground was all I had, but I had mentally practiced for this. It helps, thanks to just such videos as this one.

So cool to watch you guys talking about your flying with such passion. I ride motorcycles and it's fun, but I can see flying is many levels above motorcycles! Before KZread, we missed so much excitement.

Thanks, Great Info & a beautifully done video

Great video, Guys. Thank you very much for sharing your skill and knowledge.

Thanks fer the sights and sounds...best flyin ahead......

You guys are awesome! Reminds me of when my dad would let me do donuts in the rain or snow. I can drift like no body’s business! New to aviation, got my PPL April 2020 and have about 100 hrs in our SR22, need to get up and do some dead stick landings. Would love to to do some off engine but that’s too scary right now. Thanks for taking the time to put these videos together! Btw, I’m 51 haha! BTWK, back to work!

Insightful, something to seriously consider, plan, and practice.

I've never flown in a small aircraft before , but I would definitely trust flying with the flying cowboys. You guys are an enjoyable and trusting group.

This month's (April 2018) "AOPA Pilot" has an article "A better return policy" by John Carroll, page 78, that says that on take-off drifting off from the runway center-line improves your chances of making the 180° back to the runway you just took off from if your engine failed. Coincidentally I went up for my biannual flight review and discussed the article with the flight instructor and he thought about it agreed that it made sense. Don't know what Air Traffic Control at our airport would have to say about such a maneuver.

@feetgoaroundfullflapsC

4 жыл бұрын

You have to call the tower and ask for permission to do Turnbacks To Opposite.

@edfrawley4356

3 жыл бұрын

​@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC lol Engine out on takeoff is a bonafide emergency. Declare it and inform the tower of your plan of action. Ask for nothing. There is nothing either you or the tower can do either way

At the begining of the video you mentioned you guys had other ideas for practice. Let's see them! This is such a great video. Thanks for sharing.

Right on guys. We've buried friends before when I was rock climbing. The bush flyers remind me of us lawn dart and bag pilots. True comraderie.

first video i've seen from the ground thank you! much better to see IMO than from the cockpit.

@jasonsneed3179

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Awesome video with great information!

EXCELLENT!!! This is a great video. One thing you did not talk about is wind-speed and direction of wind. As you are turning and landing back to a runway you are also landing with a tailwind. This is a great practice to get into. Every pilot should do this on a regular basis. Such a great point! And yes this will keep you from being in a box six feet under. I LOVE THE POINT YOU MADE about getting into ground effect! YES YES YES!! Airspeed is life! This video made a good point about that blade moving, when that blade stops parasitic drag goes way up!! Think about a situation of a catastrophic engine failure where chunks of engines are blown out and the shock of realizing your emergency and then dealing with it. The extra drag people who survive these incidences are real professionals. I salute both of you for showing to other pilots the need to practice emergency procedures.

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the great comment!! Practice practice practice...

Many good points, in both the video and by the commenters (refreshing to see). The comment that resonated loudest with me was Mark's and I'll paraphrase, "The minimum skill set has become their MAXIMUM skill set"....I fly multiple airframes (UH1, UH60, UH72, C208 and C212-200)...many of my days are spent in the CASA supporting military freefall training...I try to encourage RW-to-FW guys to explore the flight envelope of the FW ACFT...but always within the limits mandated by the manufacturer and performance planning. I have had senior pilots and instructors become un-nerved by practicing full-flap descents from altitude to landing while holding the top of the white arc. Flaps full vs. flaps @ approach is a huge change in sight picture due to steep nose down attitude...the round out/flair at touchdown gets 'em every time. I'm like "what if you NEEDED that profile in an emergency, as long as the ACFT remains within the envelope?"....yet they are willing to leave options on the table. I implore all: know the capabilities AND limitation of what ever you fly, safely hone your skills and EXPLORE the limits of yourself and your ACFT. Train smart and have an escape plan (margin of error buffer and when to break it off!) Always consider DA and its effects...what works at your home base may not work in other regions OR seasons....even a repetitive msn like providing elevator service for jumpers can yield lots of opportunities to increase knowledge, S/A, and safety...blue skies fellas, great job! Thanks for sharing.

As a 4,000 hour pilot and CFI I have experienced three engine outs and off field landings. I think this is a great video! In my case, all three were just after take-off and with less than 1,000' altitude. One was too far from the airport to turn back due to being under a class B airspace. The other two were straight ahead (ish) landings. Made the evening news on two of them. (other was an ultralight and no real consequence due to landing in the desert). Due to terrain in both of the other aircraft, they were damaged but I walked away. Inner city situations where there weren't fields or open areas to the side, or even in front of me made a big difference in my actions. Both landing areas were planned and concise, but still ended with damaged aircraft. One was the first test flight and there was no chance of knowing how a power off 180 would or would not work. I even arm chair fly my planes through most plausible emergency procedures and wish others would do the same. I love the comment that Mark keeps making about fly it until it is fun. Great video Jason, thanks for sharing!

@MrLikeke

6 жыл бұрын

I'm not saying I disagree with any of which you said, but didn't the Cory Liddle accident teach anything? I would bust airspace seven ways to Sunday if it meant a safe landing. Glad you are safe, without injuries.

@Kenneths_Adventures

6 жыл бұрын

I agree, busting an airspace to save my bacon isn't even a thought. I am not sure if you misunderstood though. I was leveling off below the class Bravo airspace when the engine quit. I wasn't close enough to have gone into the airspace to make any difference in where I landed. Just curious, how did the Cory Liddle accident come into play with what I posted before? I know he hit a building but did it have anything to do with airspace? Maybe I don't remember the findings from the investigation.

@daffidavit

6 жыл бұрын

The problem with Cory Liddle was that they were flying up the East River in a SR-22 at an altitude way below the tops of the buildings because the clouds were low that day. There was a strong wind off the Atlantic ocean acting as a crosswind against the building. Instead of starting the turn from the far right side of the East River, knowing that a crosswind would be pushing them into the city, they began their turn from middle of the East river. Video shows the plane exploding around halfway up the building, so they were very low as well. I don't like to say negative things about dead people, but the CFI was the final authority here. That's why Liddle asked him to go with him from Teterboro. If they had made the turn from the far right side at the widest point on the river just before Roosevelt Island and made it slower and steep enough, they could have made it. I have to say I've been up the East River many times, and made that turn many times as well, but I never did it at an altitude that was lower than any of the local buildings. The lowest I've flown up the East River is 1000 ft, high enough to be away from all but the tallest buildings in the area. Nowadays, I simply call LaGuardia Tower and get a Bravo clearance up to 1,500 ft and ask for a left turn over Central park direct to the Hudson River before turning northbound. Central Park is almost sea level so I'm away from any buildings. Also, I don't have a built in parachute in the planes I fly. However, I realize, "But for the grace of God, there go I" and never forget that I too can become a statistic If I screw up.

@MrLikeke

6 жыл бұрын

Kenneth's Adventures I apologize, I only now see you asked what relevance the Lidle accident to your comment. First, I had read your comment about being under Class B. I suppose the way it is worded made me think it was Bravo airspace that dictated whether you could turn back. Then, I mentioned the Lidle accident flight because they made the turn in order to avoid entering Bravo. As daffidavit had just now pointed out, they botched the turn. But it was to avoid airspace which caused them to decide to turn. Sorry for any misunderstanding or confusion I may have caused.

@feetgoaroundfullflapsC

5 жыл бұрын

@@daffidavit- Cory Little CFI was a fake. He didnt know how to do safe GRM and so same BS he taught Cory. GRM is a pre solo requirement but many CFI's are afraid of doing it for real ( A chicken CFI will make a Chicken Pilot). So the GRM Chicken CFI found himself having to do Real Windy GRM with space restrictions (The real Mac Coy he chicken avoided practice) and of course, he did it stupidly wrong. I flew that East River many times in the 1990's as CFI. Had many students signed up to go all over the area. Great place to do Real No BS GRM.

Jason and Mark this is a great video and yes need to know your aircraft remember to get that nose down, I was in the Army and my instructor actually shut off the engine in Alaska but we were at good altitude but I had to talk through what to do I landed on a sand bar same with stalls. Love you guys God bless you 🙏

I love that "Don't listen to us." Great advice but we can all LEARN from listening/watching your videos. There are so many variables: weight, airspeed, wind velocity, wind direction, temperature, experience, terrain, lucky rabbit foot . . . I can remember watching glider tow planes at the Sky Sailing Airport in Fremont, CA back in the sixties. The pilots would sometimes bring their tow planes back to the airport, towing the tow line, engine completely off. I think they were using Super Cubs. I also remember a small plane stuck nose first in an oak tree, twenty feet above the ground at the Watsonville airport (I think the pilot survived).

I am impressed. Exceptionally Impressed!! Now I'm wondering what other 'Cants' are possible!

I could smell the Elk Steak while watching your after actions discussion! LOL!

I think it'd be a good idea to try with a 5 second delay in your response as well. It's typically for people to be a little shocked before they make the decision to turn. Awesome video!

@801pilot

6 жыл бұрын

Angle of Attack Thanks I totally agree, we talk about that toward the end of the video.

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Angle of Attack even though we made it from 200 feet, we obviously would not attempt this in a real engine failure, also, I think that instead of just accepting you will take 5 seconds to react, my view is to expect an engine failure on every takeoff, and when I make it to 500 agl be thankful the engine is still running. If you are prepared every time that 5 seconds might turn into 1 or even 0. We were not trying to make this the most realistic scenario, to do that we pull the mixture not the power. So many things are just perpetuated in aviation because that’s what an Instructer said to a student, why should we as pilots just accept we are going to fumble around for 5 seconds after an engine failure? Why not try and be the best we can be and maybe turn the 5 seconds into 1? Mark and I have flow together and at any point during the day I can say your engine just quit, he has to goto idle and find a place to land and we could be 150 agl. I assure you he does not fumble around for 5 seconds before his first reaction, but I do agree with you that most pilots will fumble around for 5 seconds, maybe we are a little different than most.. thanks for the comment hope to see you in Alaska!

@adamshaw6415

6 жыл бұрын

Can confirm that 3-5 seconds of "denial/lost time" is realistic when engine quits. Experienced in CAP 10 N64UV, GFK, North Dakota on 21-04-1990. Student flying as I scanned for abinitio Chinese & Gulf students babbling on Freq. and flying B-52 patterns. Slipped/landed into/on unprepared ground to avoid ditch/berm. Nominal TD and 300' of roll out until main gear abruptly halted by earth mounds and tall grass. Taildragger flipped over prop onto its back. No fire, plane reparable.

@angleofattack

6 жыл бұрын

You certainly are a little different than most. You guys are top notch. At OSH17 I attended a seminar by an aerobatic instructor who showed the situations where an impossible turn was doable. It was very informative. He cautioned that no-one try it in a real situation without having practiced it first. Personally, I like the thought of NEVER doing the impossible turn as a blanket statement for new pilots. However, why not explore this more with more experienced? I actually enjoyed seeing you guys do this and approaching the subject. Flying has very few absolutes, and we should always be discovering new ways to get it done. (this is Chris Palmer, btw)

@angleofattack

6 жыл бұрын

Lucky! But, also a lot to do with skill and training. Great job.

Outstanding video. Thank you.

Awesome into , flying down a river. Now I have to watch the rest of the video.👍

Great video, thanks guys!

Great video with sensible caveats based on your personal skills and knowledge. Not sure if it’s been said but turning 180 degrees, you’ll be landing with a tailwind. I tried it once an with a wind of only 10 knots, the increase in ground track and speed is not to be underestimated. Also, your aircraft can land on rough ground so the outcome is likely to be more favourable than say a PA28 or C172. As a UK CFI, I teach initial aiming mark one third into the runway, once you’re confident of making it, select flap and that’ll bring the landing point forward. Dead engine isn’t practiced as you said so that is a very important consideration.

Valuable video Sailplane simulated tow rope breaks which we practice remind me very much of this discussion. Prevailing wisdom with our club, rope break (engine out) under 200’. AGL. Land straight ahead or maybe 90 degree turn. 180 turn NOT suggested.

This is a much higher level of what my kids and I did in deserted winter parking lots when they were learning to drive. Even if you know what’s coming, there’s that moment where the situation gives you the stomach butterflies. I think that’s where you freeze up and stop flying or driving, and simply let physics and gravity take over. On a couple of occasions I have been surprised by what you can thread a truck through with zero contact and damage, simply because you just keep your hands on the wheel doing what they do anyway. It’s ALL risk of varying degrees, doesn’t matter what you’re doing. May as well give yourself an edge. Thanks guys.👍👍

Awesome advice -Especially the landing turn -may be a little more difficult in a low wing with 44' Wingspan -but great to visualize and perhaps try it out??

Excellent video, gentlemen.

Excellent... Thank you!

Awesome video and great discussions in the posts. Something every pilot should go out and practice. Another thing pilots don’t practice, which is a consideration with the “impossible turn” is tailwind landings. Practicing this on a calm day will most certainly change when you have wind on your back. :-)

You guys are awesome!

What a great video !!! 2 guys enjoying their planes and pushing their limits. I would love to spend a few days with you :-)

Thank you gentleman for sharing your exploration of some the critical elements of the flight envelope of your aircraft. Great reminder for the rest of us to keep practicing, make a game of it within “known” safe limits, get intimate with our aircraft and enjoy the experience. 🔥❤️😎👍

Amazing! Keep sharing! Great Job!

Thank you so much for that advice

As a prior military flight instructor and current ATP, I applaud both of y'alls comments. Your understanding of personal skill, limits, aircraft abilities and willingness to practice incrementally is impressive. You also demonstrate the tempered, measured aggressiveness that is so hard to teach. Thanks for making this video. Fly safe!

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot for the great comment!

Excellent video Guys

Absolute best advice on line around our whole globe. greatly appreciated your vids. I have a great interest in flying but own a low budget business. I offer 1,000 species of north american native plants that host our butterflies and other wildlife, we treat our customers better than family and hardy make 28k between my wife and myself. It is so sad that the citizenry of this country have no appreciation for native plants. keep the video coming.

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@davidparker8752

4 жыл бұрын

Keep up the good work with the natives. Glad to see your offering these plants and helping to create the awareness. I am a NJ Licensed tree expert and push for the use of natives all the time to my clients. There is a book, “Bringing nature home” by Doug Tallomy, a professor from the University of Delaware that more people need to know about and read. It’s more east coast leaning but the moral of the story is the same. Thank you for your business Jim.

"If a real engine out, or a simulated practice landing is stressful for you, that just means you should go do it more... do it until it's fun...until - in the real world -- you can do it so that your heart rate is at a manageable point,... and that you're instinctively doing the right things with the aircraft without having to process it steep by step in you head." Well said. And OBVIOUS common sense, Exactly what I teach, and have been advocating - for over 20 years in France.-- but to deaf ears.

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment, keep trying!

@adamshaw6415

6 жыл бұрын

French version of the FAA (...the DGAC) repeatedly tried to pull my tickets, and the Fresh Aeroclub Association (... 'managed' by long armed, shit for skills, mediocrities) launched vendetta because questions their empty-headed regs and the certifying of incompetent CFIs.Oh well... C'est la vie :-)

@VieuxBandit77

6 жыл бұрын

Germany is worse Adam! At least in France you’ve got so many challenging small Ultra Light strips and mountain spots to practice. That doesn’t exist in Germany. I’m not an instructor but in the same way as Mark and Jason (you’re awesome guys!), I’m trying to push friends to get to learn themselves and aircrafts better. Back to France, they even made the spin recovery optional to get your license! What do you want to expect from these DGAC jokes!? The German guys from the DFS (German Air Safety) are worse... Let’s get in touch and I’d to visit you on my next trip to France ;) Big rounds from Europe to Mark and Jason for their really cool videos.

Great flying!!

Very cool, great video. Might I add, in a real life emergency there is going to be more of a delay with the pilots response. In your experiment you guys knew you were going to cut the engine, and you immediately adjusted course after the cut. This would never happen IRL because the pilot at very least will need a few seconds to assess the situation, possibly try to restart the engine, look for clearing in front, etc. I imagine if you're working out of an airport your are very familiar with, you could certainly pull this off, but even then a few seconds of delay could mean another 50ft of lost altitude. This is still something great to practice none the less.

Great video!

I have been extremely passionate about aviation my whole life. I have flown very little. I have always been an adventurous kind of guy. Flying fascinates me but I have always been fearful of the dangers of flying. Just within the last week I have stumbled upon both of your channels as well as several others that you fly with. I have watch nearly all of you videos. From your group of friends. You have shown me a completely different side of aviation. A side that since discovering you guys has really been tugging on me. I am an avid Jeep guy and love the outdoors and the adventure it brings. I have set a new goal. A goal to get into this kind of flying. I know there's plenty of discouraging moments ahead as I don't make quite as much money as some of you.(an assumption that this is expensive) I have researched the planes and their costs. I have not yet figured out how much the ground school and flight training is. You and your group of friends have really inspired me to persue a dream that I have pretty much given up on. I am a hard worker man raising a son. I do some pretty labor intensive work, designing and installing landscaping for another company. I work on cars on the side and have been building a Jeep for a couple of years now. Which has to be put on hold since my wife and I are buying a house. I tell you this because the passion you have for flying exactly resembles my own. I'm just not sure I'll be able to achieve it. I'm not sure if you'll get around to reading this, but if by chance you do, just know that you are an inspiration. It would be a privilege to meet and possibly fly with you all one day. My son and I love watching your videos together. My neck of the woods and the closest G.A. airport is Destin executive. I believe it's KDTS.

@jasonsneed3179

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the great comment!!!

@jasonsneed3179

5 жыл бұрын

I am from Destin fort WALTON, lived there most of my life.. small world

great vid guys, keep the content coming

Ok, as you rightly say, you guys aren't instructors but...watching this video and listening to you both - confident, very experienced pilots is as good, if not better than listening to instructors (at least after qualifying). There's no substitute for experience (and lets face it, what you're learning from an instructor is coming from their own experience anyway). I've learnt loads watching this video and I'm sure it will go some way to keeping me safe in the future. Thanks guys

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment, hoping to do more of these videos, just don’t want to come off as a know it all... because I am not..

I so want to start flying after watching you guys. This is the stuff that scares me a little, even though I know an instructor will guide me through it.

My dad who became a pilot at 16 and soloed in a biplane, and flew for over 65 years told me a great flying lesson. He said that if and when something goes wrong with your airplane, you can't just pull over to the side of the road like a car. You need to practice for almost every scenario, and then practice some more.

Enjoyed the video. Thought the point about the difference between idle and engine out was well made. Was surprised that you didn't talk about considering wind speed ...

Hi guys! I just wanna share with you my story regarding impossible turns. 1st let me say thank you for this video. It is really useful and giving some very practical advises. So here is my story: Yesterday I had a checkride with my instructor for administrative revalidation of my SEP(A) rating. We did it on my home airfield in cavok but with moderate/strong crosswind (21015kt) with gussets up to 20 knots. The airplane was a dv20 katana nearly at max gross weight. I have only ca. 140 hours in my logbook. So flying was okay with the regular exercises, like landings with and without flaps, stalls, steep turns. etc. At the end we were making a t&go on rwy 14 with right hand pattern and right after the crosswind turn around 400ft AGL my instructor pulled back the throttle. I set the glide attitude and make a steep right and a left turn (like an `S`) to make it back to the rwy 32. I put full flaps but I saw we were still too high to stop till the end of the rwy although beyond that there was still paved surface to roll out. Around 100ft I applied full power and made a go around. My Instructor asked me what am I doing. I said `exercise done, beyond it I would feel it UNSAFE`. I saw on him that he was not full satisfied and he mentioned that next time he would make a right 270 turn away from the field to align with the rwy 32 at lower altitude for landing. So he offered me a 2nd attempt to try it out. I said okay because I wanted to PROVE it for him that I can make that. Something went wrong with the 270 right turn because we were way too low at the end, just made it to the reach the paved surface, the threshold was at least 500 hundred meters ahead of us, had to avoid trees before reaching paved area, drifted away from the center line, had no time for flaps, tail hit the ground. On the ground the instructor told me that he believed I will cancel the approach again below 100 feet but I didn`t because I wanted to make it. Below 100ft still in turn with strong tailwind everything happened too fast (even for him maybe) that he just let me flying the plane... If it would be a real engine out situation I would say that the job was done. BUT AS AN EXERCISE IT WAS UNSAFE. Everybody has the right to take a conclusion of this story but mine is definitely: as long I fly the plane I will never make anything unless I feel it SAFE and to be honest I don`t care how many thousand hours is sitting next to me!

Here is my take. Before you ever takeoff from an airport ... you had to fly into that airport first. If you are the kind of "thinking pilot" like these guys and good bush pilots, when you're flying over the airport or in the pattern before landing (or at worst approaching on a long final) ... you are looking at the roads and terrain and buildings on every side of the airport or airstrip or landing area for places you could land safely if you have an engine out when taking off from that location. This should become a habituated policy that always happens, just like lowering flaps or some other action that is always part of approach or landing. Then when you are ready to leave the airport you recall as much of this information as you can before takeoff. Then if your engine fails during takeoff, you know exactly what you decided in advance to do when taking off in that direction from that location. No need for 5 seconds ... you just immediately push the stick forward and turn in the direction you decided in advance. Then if you have plenty of altitude you can check for a cause and maybe be able to restart the engine while you glide to your chosen target. If you are a bush pilot and fly into many rugged landing areas, the only place you can even hope to land might be the airstrip (or patch of dirt/sand/grass you took off from). In which case you already know you should attempt the supposed "impossible turn" if you are high enough to have a reasonable chance. And you will know if you are likely high enough if you practice these exercizes a few times a year and remember what direction and speed the wind is blowing.

Great video gentlemen. Thank you so much, beautiful airplanes.

I’m not sure why anyone would criticize you guys for practicing emergency procedures. A-1 on an Elk stake on the other hand... 😄 thanks for the video guys.

The dangerous and more realistic scenario is that an engine doesn’t quit but loses power gradually and or partly. Most people will instinctively try to nurse it around and THEN stall spin it, rather than chop the power and go for a field

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Sky Dive everybody is different, and all aircraft are different, I personally would use any and all energy I have to make a safe landing, that could be engine energy, stored energy, or energy of the wind I can use to slow my ground speed. All pilot skills are different also, the message of the video is, know you airplane, practice in your airplane, and define what you can do, what the aircraft can do, and always strive to learn more and progress. Thanks for the comment.

@skydive1424

6 жыл бұрын

Jason Sneed totally agree! Practice practice practice. However every flight is different... When I was an instructor I almost smoked it, not with a student, when that thing started running on three, decided to take it around. Very stupid decision! It was a hot high wind day so when I was downwind, with this thing shuddering, only then I realised that, if that thing would finally quit, it would be not salvageable due to high ground speed. It did not stop and I did make it in ok but it was only by the grace of God. A bit of thought and contingency planning is always good

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Sky Dive yes, glad you made it, I like to tell myself the engine is going to quit or have issues every time I advance the throttle for takeoff, this way I am a little more prepared.

Thank you for the great video.

@jasonsneed3179

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Great stuff here guys!

Very good point about idle power and a true no power landing, need that extra energy at the flair!

@9neil

6 жыл бұрын

i have practiced thus turn many times in my own ac...a c172 k model with 40deg glsps, and a pa22 ( 160hp, no glaps) and in both ac with at 10kt or more headwinf, snything under 700feet was a no for me. usually, getting bavk was easy, but the ac ended up along side the runway, not at the threshhold. Tail wind aldo doesnt help either.. i have over 3000hrs in these ac. I slso offset 30deg to one side when taking off from strips., because you just never know.. i was also dhovked recently when i did some engine out (stationery prop) work in a microlight, just how much fifference that idling motor mskes. without the idle, the nose was way down, much steeper than with idle power. good stuff guys. keep practiving. neil new zealand.

Realy nice and interesting video , you hit that nail with this golden rule . My personal experience , start flying gliders . Every landing is a dead stick landing. start to fly thinking in advance . And thanks for this fantastic video!

This reminds me of broken tow roap practice in a glider. Remember the density altitude also has a big impact on the ability to complete any turn.

I think you guys are right on. Pilots should practice things that are uncomfortable for them. BTW you guys are excellent pilots and are fun to watch.

Turnbacks with partial power are also used in GRM Flyovers AND also on Box Canyon Turnbacks. GRM Flyovers, Box Canyon Turnbacks, and Initial Climb Turnbacks. Those 3 situations where if you dont do The Turnbacks right, you can die.. Good to learn them well..

I would guess that the wind strength (being downwind) on the particular day of the engine failure would add an additional pucker factor to the scenario as well. Lots to think about here.

You are both a great institution to flying.....there needs to be more broadcasted visual and instructional clips like this for all pilots, seasoned and otherwise....Thanks Mike Rose KI4TOL/ alias N95040 1946 Taylorcraft BC12D....Now OOC

@jasonsneed3179

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Good practice but in real life for the normal pilot you need to factor in a few seconds for the “ holy crap what happened ?” Moment then the turn to runway

Your Talk at the end it great. And it is important in every situation of life. I have a little story to that topic in general: I always ride by bicycle to work and to school early in my life :-) And i always did some "crazy" stuff, like going to an obstacle an turn just the second before hitting it, doing slaloms around markings on the street. And as kid they tell you: "don't do that, its dangerous, drive correctly, bla bla bla..." But today: I ride my bicycle and out of nowhere a car cut my line. Even now, 12h later, I have no idea how I made it around this car. I totally should have crached into it. But I didnt. I pulled that handles and somehow made it around that car, with my ass nearly sliding over his hood just out of some instincts, that I got from doing that "crazy, stupid" things my whole life for fun. That's was maybe a bit off topic at this place, but maybe if helps someone, someday :-)

@UrbanDrivestyle

5 жыл бұрын

Very good analogy...

@feetgoaroundfullflapsC

4 жыл бұрын

Right. Practicing tight swerves on motorcycles is required to pass the test. Good to practice hard to do emergencies. Then is natural to do them in a second.. I practiced in my moto years all kinds of hard turns. Saved me when had to do them for real..

@bradarmstrong1656

4 жыл бұрын

Practicing unusual maneuvers when no other vehicles are in potential conflict is good training for bikes, motorcycles, planes - everything that requires skill to maneuver - make it a favorite thing to do!

Great stuff, especially the reminder of an engine on idle is still spinning

This is awesome! Subscribed.

Great info ,

The biggest lesson in this video for me was not the flying -- it was the bit about understanding that feeling scared or nervous when doing something is the indicator that you need to do MORE of it until it's fun. Solid gold.

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, it is amazing how comfortable you can get with practice, and a comfortable brain can make better faster decisions...

Hats off to Mark Pringle at West Desert Airpark where this was filmed. You two pilots are very skilled airmen. I applaud your skill and knowledge sharing. Trent Palmers videos sucked me in. I will have to see if I proceed beyond looki- lou, but I have always had a passion to fly. Conundrum is the expense vs what I wish to leave after me. HELP

Please keep shoing us this stuff. Great video and commen sense.

As a keen club racing sailor watching aviation stuff for inspiration and new ideas and because perhaps one day i might move to the multi dimensional world that is flight it interests me how practices differ. I like to take my boat out in extreme condition and push my limits, practice manoeuvres under pressure and race because it makes me a better sailor. To me not knowing how it feels to have things go oops and recover is scary and makes me feel vulnerable. I need to know how to recognise when im in trouble and have a plan/muscle memory in any hazardous situation. Really good to see this covered. I wouldn't kayak at sea without being able to roll as if its nothing, to me this is common sense. You can get in a pickle in so may different ways in a plane seeing how little people practice is strange... half the fun surely is being able to throw it around with a satisfying degree of precision. We usually sail our raceboat up the river onto her berth because sometimes we have to... its then no big deal. Engines all the time make you lazy.

@jasonsneed3179

5 жыл бұрын

I raced high speed multi. Hulls most of my life.. transpacific record attempts and the worrell 1000 beach catamaran race.. it all fun!! Thx for the comment!

In this exercise, you know your engine is going to "quit." The critical factor is the reaction time from engine failure to beginning your response. There's those few milliseconds of disbelief before you begin the recovery.

Really good video! And that ending line: "Know you aircrafts limits, and know your personal limits, and never exceed either of one" should be used alot more, and not only regarding flying. Think about driving a vehicle, how many bad drivers would be able to control a skid if they would have practiced more. Again, very nice and educational video! And the steak looked mighty fine, I was hungry while watching so it really made my stomach rumble.. :)

Love the video, it’s extremely difficult to watch you two eat delicious elk beef, I’ll finish watching the video when I come back from the grocery store!! I’m gittin a steak 🥩!!!!! 👍

Great Info! I did the same thing 30 plus years ago. My Bonanza took 800 ft. Also I practiced engine out procedures a lot and when it happened live on the face of Mt Rainier I immediately turned away from the mountain and seeing a road I could glide to I scanned the instruments, zero fuel pressure, electric fuel pump, engine came back alive, about 7 seconds all while my poor wife was screaming in my ear! "Practice emergency procedures relentlessly". I hope you never have an engine failure but if you do, I pray that you are prepared!!!

@jasonsneed3179

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks

Although I'm not a pilot, I was a car and motorbike instructor, so I totally relate to your comments that getting a pilot licence is only just achieving the 'minimum' standards. It's very obvious that drivers and riders get 'smoother' and 'more confident' after their test, but unfortunately they confuse this with getting better; but it's not because they aren't in exam/test mode any more, and they allow sloppiness and casual attitudes to creep in. So I'm glad to see you're aiming to raise pilots sights, and encourage them to get better. Have you done any of these 'impossible turns' with wind and vegetation that would reduce the wind ground speed and create the risk of a down wing stall as the inward wing has less air speed, and being closer to the ground is in slower moving air, while the upper wing has a higher air speed through faster moving air. I would be curious as to how much difference that makes compared to the ideal conditions in this video.

@jasonsneed3179

6 жыл бұрын

Yes everything makes a difference... Temp, Alt, and a dozen others... This is just what we did on one day... Thanks for the comment.

Now 70 retired, stopped flying in Y2K to expensive, learned to fly at N34 Turner field Horsham Pa in the early 1970's while going to college after 4 years in the Marines. A slow flight mountain canyon turn works fine, would use it flying up the Hudson river thru NY city, also if you come up short on final to runway, dive for the ground, get your airspeed up, then in ground effect you may make the runway...

Great info ... I would have loved to see you do a key-hole turn to return attempt ... how would that have changed your results

I was hungry the whole time.....the steak sure looked good! Great video again, very informative!!!