I just don't get it. The Fleer card simply is not his rookie, the back of the card has 2 years of Bulls stats. How could that be seen as a "rookie" card? A rookie card should not show any of the players professional stats, as they are not known yet.

@basketballhistory6151

Жыл бұрын

If I'm not mistaken, basketball cards used to always include 1 year of stats. I think it was around 1990 that they started having an update set that would have rookies (that would have had RCs in the next year's set) By 1992, they just included the rookies in the 2nd series for that year, when the rookies' first season was going on, creating the modern example of a rookie card that had no pro stats on it. For example The 1992-93 Fleer Larry Johnson has only his college stats, it was from fleer series 2 of that year. But the 1988-89 Scottie Pippen and Reggie Miller RCs have one year of pro stats. But I'm with you Nicolas, if it's not in the player's rookie season, I don't see how it can be a truer rookie than a card made in the rookie year. What is even stranger than the Jordan is John Stockton. They call his 1988-89 Fleer his (RC). Star had cards of him in 1984-85, 85-86, and he wasn't in the first 2 fleer sets , so the fleer 88-89 is Stockton's (rc) according to beckett, even though he had FOUR years of stats on the back.

@jdigitalseven7

6 ай бұрын

Also the Court Kings number 26 in 1985 could be considered his true RC

Interesting take on this. The similarities in card collecting vs comic collecting is mirrored. For example “The Incredible Hulk 181” is regarded as the first appearance of Wolverine (it’s a nice book with him on the cover), however, “The Incredible Hulk 180” first showed Wolverine on the last page as cameo. By definition first appearance is what is defined by dictionary; therefore the 180 book is his true first appearance, just like MJs Star card over the Fleer 86 card.

@adamgray1612

2 жыл бұрын

Didn’t know that background on the hulk comic. Thanks for sharing. Very cool.

@rocketfighter8

Жыл бұрын

I solved that problem by getting both Hulk 180 and 181 in CGC 9.0. I also have both the 84 Star and 86 Fleer Jordans.😁

One note, I have a friend who has a BGS 8, it has 7 centering and 9.5 and all the other sub grades. So the part you said about not being able to get an overall grade more than .5 higher than centering is apparently incorrect. Great video though, I love hearing people talk about this card. I think it will be seen one day as one of the top 5 iconic cards in the hobby and worth millions in a condition equivalent to BGS 8.5 or up. Obviously now that PSA grades it again that takes away a lot of the fear people who are not educated on it had, now the sky is the limit on the 101 true rookie!

@Angiegray27

Жыл бұрын

I believe it's corners and centering...... but two of the subs prevent the overall card grade to be over .5 higher. The other two can be 1.0 higher.

@freedomfight1933

Жыл бұрын

@@Angiegray27 did you find some very reliable source listing that info? I've heard many other people talking about the theory that the overall grade can't be more than half a point higher than the low, but now I know it's not true.

Cetering is actually the least important factor on cards with known centering issues on all but highest grades. When people buy low to mid grades of this card, they are far more concerned about surface and edges than centering in my experience. You will see BGS 7's to 8.5s with widely ranging surface and edge subs, with every one of them have low centering subs. Most collectors I've talked to would take the 7.5 with low centering and high others above a BGS 8 with 8 subs across the board including centering. That especially applies when considering how PSA grades centering now that they are grading them again.

THE 5X7 # 26 IS THE REAL JORDAN ROOKIE CARD.

I compare the 1984 - 85 star101 Michael Jordan rookie to the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle

I HAVE A 84 85 STAR 05 OF 10 GRADED 8.5 BY GMA SHOULD I SEND IT TO PSA AND HAVE IT GRADED WILL THEY EVEN GRADE IT THANKS IN ADVANCE

I have the 86 Fleer Jordan (raw) that I purchased in 1990. I think it's a 7.0 to 8.0. In 2012 I bought the 1984 Star BGS 8.0. It's a win/win for me.

I do see how people would consider both, I personally say the star. The fact it was made in the same year of his rookie season overweighs the fact that it never came from a nationally distributed set. If you want your collection of rookies to just include a photo of the player in, or before, his rookie year, then you must prefer the star card.

Why does there have to be only one? Is this Highlander? Personally. I think due to the chaos in the basketball card realm in the early to mid 80’s that both are acceptable and as a collector you should go after the one you prefer (or both). It’s supposed to be fun. 2 rookie card options are more fun than 1.

@Angiegray27

2 жыл бұрын

100% both mine and Brian's feelings. :)

@slimthumbtak

10 ай бұрын

@@ammocan2796 Don't have neither. Don't want neither. Had an '86. Got bored of it and traded it for a better card. My opinion has nothing to do with what I own or want to own. It has to do with the fact that Star cards are cheap novelty crap on shit quality paper stock that aren't real cards. Folks crack me up trying to force the bullshit star card on people just because they bought 'em cheap and are trying to boost their value in hopes of finding someone dumber than them to sell 'em to. Take your shit take and wipe it with your Star cards that are toilet paper quality stock.

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT 5 OF 10 JORDAN CARD FROM STAR FROM 84 85 WOULDNT THIS BE HIS FIRST OR SECOND ROOKIE CARD TECNICALLY

Why is nobody talking about the star 84 85 5 of 10 why would this not be his first or second rookie card just curious

Excuse me. The 84-85 star jordan #101. I said 117 lol. That's 85-86 star.

The 84-85 star #117 is the first jordan card made. Therefore it is the true rookie card. Enough said. Just watch out for the fakes. They can be tricky and everyone trying to obtain one needs to learn what to look for. Alot of us older collectors like myself can help with this.

Should you consider the Wichita Eagle Beacon Michael Jordan in this conversation? It's his 1st Card although it's in a Newspaper. And actually the 5x7 Court Kings came out before the #101. The Fleer #57 Jordan is his 3rd Year Card. There were only around 2000 or 3000 Bulls Sets made in 1984. I've been collecting Star for Decades and I'm very knowledge about them and in my opinion it's probably 2000.

@jimmy_iKoN

Жыл бұрын

Actually true the eagle was his 1st card good point

Well if you said I have I mj rookie card and showed me either I wouldn’t argue about it… BUT the star court kings 5x7 was technically his first card so why isn’t that his “rookie”? Both the 101 star and fleer are rookie cards but I’d vote the 86 fleer his true rookie.. which one would I rather have? The star because it is worth more and that’s the only reason. I’m my opinion the true rookie is the fleer. If it is star then it’s the 5x7 court kings there is proof it was made before the 101. There is valid points on both sides but the court kings was first technically. In the end who cares. If you own the 101, court kings or fleer I’d say yes you have a jordan rookie.

@rocketfighter8

2 ай бұрын

If you have a son born in 1984 and another son born in 1987. Which would you consider your first son?

10:08 ......That Star Jordan is two years before 1986 Fleer is FALSE!! The Star #101 is just year 1985 only, not 1984! And the 1986 Fleer #57 is a 2nd card. Becket grading gets it wrong when #101 Jordan actually just 1985. And where PSA gets it right when the star #101 is just year 1985 Look at Star #101 Jordan on Upper right, it just says 1985 STAR!!! The 1986 Fleer is just 1986 on the back on the Jordan rookie.

From a collector standpoint, there is no debate… No self respecting collector could look you in the eye and say that they owned Jordan’s rookie if they didn’t own this card.

The 1986 - 87 Fleer Michael Jordan rookie was mass-produced, and it's not Michael Jordan's true rookie card. Michael Jordan rookie card is the 1984 - 85 star 101 rookie

1985 Nike!

Influencers made the star card the rookie card lol 😂

@jimmy_iKoN

Жыл бұрын

True 😂 the 5x7 court kings was before the 101 and the eagle card was before both of them.. fleer is the real rookie

The 1985 86th fleer mass-produced. They are overpriced, and are not Michael Jordan's true rookie card

Too many fakes.

@freedomfight1933

2 жыл бұрын

There is a general consensus in the hobby that the Fleer has a LOT more fakes out there, and better quality ones. I've seen a lot of the fake Star cards as I've intentionally looked for them to see how good they are, and they are absolutely terrible fakes. I can tell the Star fakes I've seen from 6 feet away. Not the case for the better Fleer ones.

@jebbthetrainkid1281

Жыл бұрын

@@freedomfight1933 I agree with you 100 percent. I've got just about every Star Co card made us an Uncut Sheet with 2 Jordan's on it. The Fakes are pretty obvious. I also use a micrometer to look closely at the Cards. If you got your Star Cards years ago you should be fine. They weren't that collectable. And some people considered them in the same categories like Sets made by Broder and companies like that.