The Bible's never had to change to conform to science/archeology but these endeavors have constantly had to catch up to the Bible. The Bible's track record is so much better. So, instead of automatically questioning the Bible when there's a conflict, I've chosen to embrace the consistently proven Bible and await the naysayers to catch up with Scripture.

@milkydud

Жыл бұрын

The same can be said of any ancient record. No ancient record has to change to confirm other data points found via archeological finds. All of the avaliable sources should be consulted and weighed for their historical information to be synced with others so that we can infer what most probably was the case of the ancient period

@jmharrison3

Жыл бұрын

Thank you sir, the Bible has been gifted to us to learn from, if there are scriptures in the Bible that state this happened during this time, I’m not in any position to question the validity.

@markmcflounder15

9 ай бұрын

​@@milkydudyeah...that's just not true historically (pun intended). Skeptics claimed that Nebuchanezzar never existed, Pontius Pilate was made up, King David was a myth, the Gospel of Luke couldn't be trusted, etc.... Moreover, no ancient record is at conflict with archaeology? Really? Which ancient record is the most accurate? Archeology & history are really at odds with the Qur'an. The New Testament & Qur'an are at irreconcilable differences. One says Jesus was not crucified & the other states he was. As far as archaeology the most ancient mosque's quiblas don't point to Mecca but Petra. The few descriptions of the agriculture & geography of the City in the Qu'ran don't correspond to Mecca but to Petra. Additionally there are manuscript problems, coins & maps that contradict the standard Islamic historical narrative. I think it was Plutarch or perhaps it was another biographer but the date of Alexander the Great's death is in contradiction. Unless one is really rigid it's not much of a problem. And, historians understand that. I just wanna point out the contradiction.

@tomasrocha6139

5 ай бұрын

Interpretation of the bible has changed enormously unless you believe the earth is flat as the Israelites did and no science whatsoever has had to catch up to the bible.

@rmwestjr

2 ай бұрын

The Bible does not state that the Earth is flat or spherical directly. The Bible uses a Hebrew word translated as ‘circle’ which can also be translated as domain, similar to our idiom ‘circle of influence’. Ecclesiastes 1:6 states “The wind blows to the south and goes around to the north; around and around goes the wind, and on its circuits the wind returns.” This seems to suggest the Earth has roundness or alternately the writer knew of the Earth’s wind currents.

This is so confusing, I’m sticking with the clear reading of Scripture and the 15th century exodus. Joel Kramer, Titus Kenedy, Scott Stripling, and Douglas Petrovich have laid it out much clearer.

@waitam5014

Ай бұрын

Just like reading some comments. Anyway, what was so confusing? I am not coming from siding on a particular dating, but i can understand you are more convince one way, but I just can’t see how this 30k overview was confusing? Anyway your comment just caught my eye.

@TaiChiDragon....

29 күн бұрын

To billcovington: I agree with you.

@TacoTuesday4

8 күн бұрын

Sticking with the 15th century timing actually creates a lot more issues for Scripture than the 12th century timing. The 12th century timing is a very clear reading of Scripture.

@billcovington5836

8 күн бұрын

@@TacoTuesday4 totally disagree. Since the discovery and deciphering of the Ashurbanipal's library in Nineveh, and the date of the eclipse on June 15, 763 B.C. this has enabled us to date backwards to 1 Kings 6:1 as 966 B.C. From there 1446 B.C. is established for me hands down. ( see the book, The Assyrian Eponym Canon by George Smith).

@coffeebreaktheology2634

11 сағат бұрын

And add David Rohl’s new chronology to the mix

It’s awesome when really smart people, care about TRUTH , and can have their mind changed, after hearing other information!

Love people who admit their mistakes. Great show Dr McDowell. Love history and this topic. Fabulous how well the Jews and God, documented history. What fun as Archeology discovers more to confirm events of 1,400 B.C. and the surrounding centuries. Truly exciting.

@Red22762

Жыл бұрын

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!

@MrAuskiwi101

Жыл бұрын

Bible god documented history? lol

@claudetteearle5785

Жыл бұрын

But God had nothing to do with this documentation really. I believe we should always be critical...even of holy books...all of them.

@Mstryker83

Жыл бұрын

I ii ui j in. ,

@Mstryker83

Жыл бұрын

@@MrAuskiwi101 j

Very very grateful for these Egyptology discussions. When I started my homeschooling journey with my children, I was excited to get a hold of a book called Mystery of History volume I (Linda Hobar). I started going through the book with my daughter and did some extra studies on my own to make sure I understood what I was teaching her. And I 'really' got stuck on placing the worldwide flood alongside the pyramids.

@SeanMcDowell

Жыл бұрын

I LOVE that you do this with your daughter!

@timffoster

Жыл бұрын

@TheMRB Kinda hard (ie impossible) to have a year-long *local* flood; why spend years to build an ark (why not just spend a year to migrate); why put birds on an ark for a local flood (just let them fly away); in fact, why save any animals anywhere since the majority of the world (and their animals) were unaffected? And we have local floods today, so God didn't keep his promise.

@LM-jz9vh

Жыл бұрын

@TheMRB The fictional Abrahamic god who is based around Canaanite mythology? If anyone thinks the Bible is the "word of God" and not ancient authors speaking for their imaginary god, they need to read the below article from a critical Biblical scholar and spend some time reading the other articles on his website. "So for example, when we read carefully what Yahweh says in the book of Leviticus, namely that the Aaronids (the sons of Aaron only), are high priests contrary to the Levites, that they alone are Yahweh’s mediators and the Levites are reduced to mere ministers of the Aaronids, that only through sacrifice can one atone for sins and not confession as preached by the Levites, or more precisely the Levite’s Yahweh, etc., *it can be no coincidence that in these laws and commandments,* ***which are placed on the mouth of Yahweh,*** *that Yahweh himself is presented advocating and legitimating the very views and beliefs of the specific priestly guild writing the text, and, contrary to the views and beliefs of their rivals, the Levites and the Levite’s Yahweh!* We will examine this more closely when we get to the contradictions in these books. But in short, this was the function of ancient literature, and we are allowing these ancient texts to speak for themselves. *In this particular case, the Levites and Aaronids wrote specific texts that each advocated their religious beliefs, views, and their position as high priests* ***by writing these sentiments directly into the mouth of their god!*** But just studying the Bible alone, scientifically, affords us the occasion *to see that many of these so-called words of Yahweh are* ***actually the very words of the texts’ authors.*** When we see numerous texts employing this ancient literary technique, and moreover, ***presenting Yahweh as the spokesperson for their own views and agenda,*** *and* ***contrary*** *to Yahweh’s other words in other texts written by other authors employing the same technique,* how can one conclude otherwise. In other words, when in the composite text that we now call the Bible we find: Yahweh declaring that only Aaronids can officiate as his priests and Yahweh declaring that all Levites can officiate as high priest; Yahweh declaring that sin is atoned through confession and Yahweh declaring that sin is only expiated through the sacrificial cult, no exceptions; Yahweh declaring that he gave laws and commandments at Sinai and Yahweh declaring that he only gave the Ten Commandments at Sinai; Yahweh commanding to exterminate all the Canaanites without pity and Yahweh declaring to tolerate them and live in their midst; Yahweh declaring that the wilderness generation were disloyal and rebellious and Yahweh declaring that they were a paradigm of loyalty and faith; Yahweh declaring that he may be offered sacrifices at any altar and Yahweh declaring that there is only one altar where sacrifices are to be offered up; Yahweh declaring that the people saw him at Sinai and Yahweh declaring that they only heard his voice; Yahweh declaring that circumcision is an eternal covenant and keeping the land depends on observing this very commandment and Yahweh declaring the Mosaic laws as the covenant and keeping the land is dependent on keeping these laws; Yahweh declaring that he dwells in the midst of the people and Yahweh declaring that he only resides in heaven; Yahweh commanding Passover to be celebrated by all at Jerusalem and Yahweh commanding it to be celebrated at each person’s home; Yahweh commanding that animals for consumption must be ritually sacrificed and Yahweh commanding that they don’t have to be sacrificed ritually, etc. ***one must conclude that Yahweh is being used by these authors, each with their own contrary views and beliefs as a spokesperson for each of these authors’ agendas.*** These are all the personal, and competing, views, theological beliefs, and religious systems of our biblical authors. And this is only the tip of the iceberg." *"Studying the Bible"* - Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei

@LM-jz9vh

Жыл бұрын

@TheMRB *The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.*** *Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.*** ***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service. Google *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"* Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:50 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes. From a Biblical scholar: "Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."* *"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"* *"The Greatest Trick Religion Ever Pulled: Convincing Us That Satan Exists | Atheomedy"* *"Zoroastrianism And Persian Mythology: The Foundation Of Belief"* (Scroll to the last section: Zoroastrianism is the Foundation of Western Belief) *"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"* *"January | 2014 | Atheomedy"* - Where the Hell Did the Idea of Hell Come From? Watch *"The Origins of Salvation, Judgement and Hell"* by Derreck Bennett at Atheologica (Sensitive theists should only watch from 7:00 to 17:30 minutes as evangelical Christians are lambasted. He's a former theist and has been studying the scholarship and comparative religions for over 15 years) *"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"* *"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"* *"Are The Ten Commandments Based On The Forty-Two Principles Of Maat That Appeared 2,000 Years Earlier? - Ancient Pages"* *"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"* *"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"* *"No, Humans Are Probably Not All Descended From A Single Couple Who Lived 200,000 Years Ago"* *"Adam & Eve: Theologians Try to Reconcile Science and Fail - The New Republic"* *"Adam and Eve: the ultimate standoff between science and faith (and a contest!) - Why Evolution Is True"* *"Bogus accommodationism: The return of Adam and Eve as real people, as proposed by a wonky quasi-scientific theory - Why Evolution Is True"* *"How many scientists question evolution? - **sciencemeetsreligion.org**"* *"What is the evidence for evolution? - Common-questions - BioLogos"* (A Christian organisation) *"Why scientists dismiss 'intelligent design' - Science"* *"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"* *"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"* *"Studying the Bible"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei (This particular article from a critical Biblical scholar highlights how the authors of the Hebrew Bible used their *fictional* god as a mouthpiece for their own views and ideologies) *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei

@timffoster

Жыл бұрын

@TheMRB 0. (You skipped responding to my first rebuttal. Understandably. Tectonic plate shifts of that order and nature would be as unlikely as a world-wide flood. So why bother with the theory? ) 1. ..and yet there were birds on the ark. 2. Considering the sheer volume of animals that died in the flood, why should saving non-migratory animals be a concern to Noah? And according to the story, animals weren't carnivores prior to the flood. See Gen 9. 3. Any human or animal migrating these days can find food along the way unless they're crossing wastelands. Trade routes have Followed the fertile crescent in and out of the Arabian peninsula for millennia. (Its called "fertile" for good reason) 4a. See my first point (the one you didn't address). There's no physical way to have a *year-long* flood across the entire region. For that, you need a row of mountains encircling the region, and there are none. 4b. One has to assume birth rates. Given that the bible implies both human and animal physiology was different back then, any assumption would be wild speculation. I've run the numbers myself, and it could easily be into the Billions. (I'm unaware of population speculation from ancient Jewish historians, but the assumptions that get you numbers on the very high end even has support from ancient Jewish historians like Josephus) Food for thought.

when it comes down to it, all that matters is Jesus is the word of God. just my opinion

I find Jones’ take on 1 Kings 6:1 to be *EXTREMELY* dubious upon a read of the passage. The writer is careful to note the *year* of Solomon’s reign and the *month* including noting that it is the *second* month of Zif. The *context* of the passage is most decidedly against Jones’ view. The passage clearly has an eye to giving the reader precise chronology. Therefore, 1446 BC is the most supported date for the Exodus.

@billcovington5836

7 күн бұрын

Since the discovery and deciphering of the Ashurbanipal's library in Nineveh, and the date of the eclipse on June 15, 763 B.C. this has enabled us to date backwards to 1 Kings 6:1 as 966 B.C. From there 1446 B.C. is established for me hands down. ( see the book, The Assyrian Eponym Canon by George Smith).

That question about putting the dating aside is a funny one since the whole point of this discussion is THE DATE 😂 Yes, of course you can put the dating aside and construct a bullet point list of why the early, late and patterns exoduses are the right ones, but the devil really is in the dating, and that's where you find out what can and cannot hold water. I know everyone wants things simplified, but the problem with simplification of the exodus is that the complicated bits are really what ties it all together. NGL, I've been waiting for this ever since I saw both you and IP running exodus content with opposing viewpoints. Thank you for this, it was great!

There is strong evidence that Amenhotep ii is the Pharaoh of the Exodus & Hatshepsut who is Thutmose III daughter, is the one who drew Moses from the water. Amenhotep's military campaigns, & everything. Also Ramses II could not have been the Pharaoh of the Exodus because the Pharaoh before him didn't reign 40 years. Whoever was the Pharaoh of the Exodus , the Pharaoh before him.had to reign for at least 40 years because Moses was exiled to Midian and couldn't return until that Pharaoh had died. Plus 1 Kings 6:1 gives us the date !

@johnnyc2680

Жыл бұрын

Hatshepsut was not Thutmose III’s daughter, but his step mother, and there is no reason to believe she drew Moses from the Nile. Hatshepsut was not sympathetic towards Asiatics because her great grandfather Ahmose defeated the Hyksos rulers from the Delta. In the Speos Artemidos Inscription of Hatshepsut, she wrote: "So listen, all you elite and multitude of commoners: I have done this by the plan of my mind. I do not sleep forgetting, (but) have made form what was ruined. For I have raised up what was dismembered beginning from the time when the Asiatics were in the midst of the Delta, (in) Avaris, with vagrants in their midst, toppling what had been made." Hatshepsut's full inscription denounced the Hyksos, and by saying that she is fixing what was ruined by them, she was legitimizing her reign. The whole point was that Egypt was united. With the Hyksos' defeat in recent memory (less than a century), it's very doubtful that Hatshepsut would feel empathy and compassion for a Hebrew baby who was a descendent of a people from the Levant, the same general area where the Hyksos came from (although they are not related, all Asiatics were lumped in together). Hatshepsut doesn't seem the type of Egyptian who would take pity on a Hebrew baby (Exodus 2.6). "Asiatics" in the inscription seems to be used as a slur with "vagrants" and later on, the word "abomination" is used in good measure to get the point across. Not friendly language. Amenhotep II's campaigns captured slaves just like his father, Thutmose III. Not really evidence for an Exodus at that time. There could be many reasons why he didn't have as many campaigns as his father. The increased Egyptian presence in Canaan does not allow for the Israelites to conquer the land during the 18th Dynasty. There is no condition in scripture that says that the Pharaoh prior to the Exodus Pharaoh had to reign at least 40 years before dying, allowing Moses to return to Egypt. God said to Moses, “Go back to Egypt, for all the men who were seeking your life are dead” (Exodus 4.19). “All the men” suggests more than just the Pharaoh (Exodus 2.15) wanted Moses dead, although the passage in Exodus 2 focuses on the ruler. It’s possible that several Pharaohs and officials died during the time when Moses was in Midian. It doesn’t necessarily follow that the Pharaoh before had to reign 40 years, only that he and others died during Moses’ time away from Egypt. 480 years is an idealized number (12 times 40) in keeping with other cultures of the time when it came to temple dedications. James Hoffmeier wrote in his essay response to Bryant Wood that if you add up the numbers of years from Joshua to the Judges to the fourth year of Solomon, the number is 633 (and possibly up to 650), much longer than 480. Granted, the reigns of the Judges were most likely concurrent as they were from different tribes, but the takeaway is that there is something else going on with the 480 years.

@LahSouljacutzup

Жыл бұрын

@@johnnyc2680 I meant Thutmose I daughter. And that don't mean she could not have seen a baby and saved him from the water.

@chancylvania

8 ай бұрын

@@johnnyc2680Stephen in Acts is the one who says that Moses was in Egypt for 40 years, then in Midian for 40 years. If we accept Stephen as at least knowing his history, this is all we have to say how long he was there.

@billcovington5836

7 күн бұрын

Since the discovery and deciphering of the Ashurbanipal's library in Nineveh, and the date of the eclipse on June 15, 763 B.C. this has enabled us to date backwards to 1 Kings 6:1 as 966 B.C. From there 1446 B.C. is established for me hands down. ( see the book, The Assyrian Eponym Canon by George Smith). Hatshepsut would've been 13-15 years old in 1526, the year Moses was born.

Resubscribed after hearing that you agreed to have Dr.David Faik on. As a Biola graduate: honest dialogue is an impairitive on the Exodus!

Thanks! Interesting!

I’d like to see a debate to see how the evidence holds up when challenged

@stephengray1344

Жыл бұрын

Suggest it to Capturing Christianity or Modern Day Debate, then. Those are the KZread channels where there's the most space for such a debate (though I guess Modern Day Debate is more likely to host a "did the Exodus happen" one than a "when did the Exodus happen" one).

@SeanMcDowell

Жыл бұрын

We’re definitely gonna have a couple scholars on soon to hash it out!

@jonnyw82

Жыл бұрын

@@SeanMcDowell Awesome, looking forward to it

@DarrenGedye

Жыл бұрын

If it's debates you like then I recommend Zondervan's 2021 "Five Views on the Exodus: Historicity, Chronology, and Theological Implications". I think the problem with debates is the Dunning-Kruger effect: those who really know their stuff speak cautiously, while the ignorant speak emphatically with great confidence.

@jonnyw82

Жыл бұрын

@@DarrenGedye yes, that fools a lot of people. Bart Ehrman uses that technique to great effect. I try to listen very carefully to separate the wheat from the chaff. Thanks for the recommendation.

Brother you should get S. Douglas Woodward and his Septuagint study. This is vital.

Also Egypt had more than one capital. Thebes was the religious capital and Memphis the administrative capital. The king moved around the capitals. Also the tuhtmoside dynasty would have spent a lot of time in Peru-nefer as it was the launch point for their raids into the Levant…..all of which was in full swing during the 18th dynasty.

@Sarevo100

3 күн бұрын

And Amenhotep II was born and raised in Memphis.

This was very interesting. I noted though that Michael didn't mention how he actually assigned dates to periods etc. Is he going from the standard Egyptian timeline? Is he aware there's some debate on this timeline? If there's wiggle room with Egyptian dates, could that account for the misalignment with biblical dates?

@magnificentuniverse3085

Жыл бұрын

He is going with the most accepted chronology thats also the newest and is based on links between egyptian pharaohs and middleeastern rulers that are recently discovered. Early daters go with older now almost abandoned chronologies mixed with their own dating systems that pretty much nobody accepts besides them.

@DarrenGedye

Жыл бұрын

There is a few years wiggle room here and there, but definitely not the centuries required by early exodus proponents. Rohl's chronology is even more absurd and contains over a hundred internal contradictions, so it is very disappointing that Patterns of Evidence got bamboozled by him.

@str.77

Жыл бұрын

@@magnificentuniverse3085 That's not entirely accurate. The Egyptian chronologies by proponents of an Exodus in the 18th dynasty* and proponents for a 19th century date* are pretty much the same with only a few differences in details. Some 18th dynasty daters (favouring Amenhotep II) use one detailed chronology others would call outdated (the difference is actually roughly 40 years). However that is hardly a decisive blow, even if outdated equated to false. No one should confuse this with totally outrageous reinterpretations of chronology like that of David Rohl. *I prefer these to the vaguer early/late distinction as they are some outliers dating even earlier or later. Also, the two positions are not monolithic camps, though certain proponents like to treat opposing positions that way.

@str.77

Жыл бұрын

@@DarrenGedye That's exactly the confusion I meant. An "early" date (18th dynasty, 15th century) does NOT require changes of "centuries" in the Egyptian chronology.

The Amarna letters are currently dated 14th century, right inbetween the two debated spots. But some of them have Canaanites complaining about the "Ha-ri-bu", a kingless group, causing trouble and appealing to Egypt to stop them. That sounds a lot like the way ANE kings would see the Hebrews (and associated peoples since a "mixed multitude" went with them). That would fit with an early date where the conquest took a long time, but not a late date. Do the Amarna letters apply to this situation and if not why not?

@jaredgilmore3102

Жыл бұрын

While the Israelites were Habiru not all Habiru were Israelites, it essentially could mean hillbilly, nomad or bandit and was used to describe many groups we know were not connected to the Israelites this is an example of the loosening grip that the Egyptians had over the region and could be describing the other invading groups such as the sea people that had begun to invade Canaan.

@lisacawyer6896

Жыл бұрын

It would argue for the late date, because by then the Palestine area was no longer part of Egyptians we don't see Egypt as a player in Joshua & Judges. So these letters must be referring to some earlier time.

@chancylvania

8 ай бұрын

@@lisacawyer6896but we can see from the Amarna letters that egypt didn’t occupy cannan they just controlled it as a vassal state. They don’t need to be there.

@chancylvania

8 ай бұрын

@@jaredgilmore3102regardless of the possible phonetic connection, a number of the letters describe what happens in Joshua and Judges in very similar details.

@jaredgilmore3102

8 ай бұрын

@@chancylvania No the details do not match, the letters describe the wrong cities under attack including ones being conquered as far north as Syria, unless you want to ditch the entire narrative of Joshua the events described in the Amarna letters are either (A) not the Israelite conquest or (B) proof that judges is completely inaccurate history.

When you discussed 'loan words' I thought it was a strange way to describe words that originated somewhere else..but I realise that I have not thought 'borrow' to be strange in this context! I wonder who is expecting the 'borrowing' or 'loan' to be paid back! Sorry, just the way my brain works! I did go back and listened to the bit I missed whilst thinking about that!

@karenallen7064

Жыл бұрын

Loan words are a comonnly referenced linguistic trait. If a people group lived among another people group this would be expected. In this case, because of the length oof f time, the borrowing would go both directions.

@biddiemutter3481

Жыл бұрын

@@karenallen7064 maybe it's just the way I learnt English! I understand what they are, but one normally returns something borrowed or loaned. To me it sounds like asking someone to loan a bite of sandwich... ie; both quite hard to return! But perhaps we shouldn't think too much about that!

@disguisedcentennial835

Жыл бұрын

@@biddiemutter3481 it’s because the original language still owns it, as well. So while it is used by one, it is still owned by another.

‘B.S.Lewis” Good one Credit where credit is due

IP good to see you with McDowell.

And what you do about the Egypt kings info in the Bible? There's only one option that fits the information bout the previous king ruling time and the one rulling in Moses coming back time to Egypt.

What do you do with the Merneptah Stele? Isn't it just a bit early for Israel to be worthy of being a "defeated foe" along with other great people/nations mentioned on this Stele? So, not everything fits the earlier date as suggested in this video.

Sean - You said that Michael shifted his thinking to an earlier Exodus. ?? Seems he shifted to a later Exodus!

What was their Base Number System? Even when it is symbolic, the numbers used, we need to understand the basis of the numbers.

@garysweeten5196

Жыл бұрын

@whatsapp➕❶❻❺⓿❼❻❶❹⓿❶❺ The details are above my interests and training but I admire scholars and their dedication. My question was on the base number system. I read that it was 7 not 10 back then. That kind of difference over a period of 3500 years would explain some discrepancies.

Interesting talk. Very enjoyable listening! Just one historical question… Have you taken the Eastern Mediterranean/Asia Minor Late Bronze Age Collapse/mass migration; population upheaval period into consideration… of a similar timeframe? Or reconciled ALL the movement of invading populations? - as you allude to the ‘Sea Peoples’ right at the end of the talk. If all firstborn males were taken in the land of Egypt… and the army was lost in the Red Sea debacle at the time of Moses, how did Ramses III defeat the ‘Sea Peoples’ where all other Eastern Mediterranean kingdoms failed (1187 bce-ish) ?

@jaredgilmore3102

Жыл бұрын

David Falk has addressed this on his channel, the Bronze age collapse was a bunch of different catastrophes over a long period of time (several centuries) including climate change and natural disasters that caused several major civilization to collapse in a cascading series of disasters, its hard to say any specific thing opened the door for Israel to invade but it certainly was the case that the 13th century was the perfect time for new civilizations to carve out kingdoms from the old empires. This is the same time the Philistines (one of the sea peoples) settled in Canaan as well, by this point most of the bronze age empires other then Egypt were gone and Egypt was internally focused due to major economic issues including an inflation crisis. Sea people were one of the factors of collapse and likely were several waves of invasions, the Ramses the III invasion may have been a different coalition or even unconnected entirely to the invasion that destroyed the Hittite empire in Turkey many decades earlier.

@djpodesta

Жыл бұрын

@@jaredgilmore3102 Well… we know that the invasions came in at least two waves. But the last wave was swift; wiping out the Greece; or Mycenaean culture, the Minoans, the Hittites, the Lavant and a little further into Asia Minor. Only Rameses III has an inscription declaring a victory… and then I will refer back to my question… as it has gone unanswered.

@djpodesta

Жыл бұрын

@@jaredgilmore3102 PS… I will have a look at what David Falk has to say though. I appreciate the referral.

@djpodesta

Жыл бұрын

@@jaredgilmore3102 Hi Jared. Just a note of thanks for your referral to Dr Falk’s video. Dr Falk’s explanation, while being brief, was quite well reasoned and went part the way to answering my particular ‘question.’ Thanks again.

@str.77

Жыл бұрын

It wasn't that "the army" was lost in the Read Sea but only that unit sent after the Israelites.

Is this where the Ramses statue was found fallen? Much was said about the pattern in history of the gateway (Pi) to a country, the fallen gate towers and nearby stock yards. As, too, in the time of Christ from fallen towers to the finger of God as Christ writing accusation at the completion of a temple lacking the stone with Solomon's secret eyelets for the 7 spirits of God. An OT sentence thought to be an error indicates 18 wisemen--not the 18th year of a king. "And there were 18." So many similarities in falling empires.

To Michael's point about getting Egyptian furniture correct. If that was made up you would end up with something like Mormanism. Where they make claims about Egyptian hieroglyphs that we very clearly know are incorrect now.

9:22 he definitely meant what you knew! 😂😛

@SeanMcDowell

Жыл бұрын

Haha, yep!

@colmwhateveryoulike3240

Жыл бұрын

@@SeanMcDowell Great interview. Looking forward to the debate. As a layman I find Falk and IP more convincing so far.

Hi Sean, can you try to get a preterist and a futurist on your show?

22:00 Jephthah's "failed diplomacy" happens to an argument of weak, almost circular reasoning. No, the Book of Judges never tells us that we should mistrust the information he gives. Yes, Khemosh is the wrong god but is that Jephthah's mistake or that of the book's author? (Note that the Ammonite king doesn't flinch at the mistake.) Jephtah is depicted as a flawed character but not as one having false information. Negotiations did not break down because of false chronology or naming wrong gods but because the Ammonite king wouldn't back down to a supposedly weaker opponent. So, Jephthah's number might be wrong but it cannot be reasoned into making metaphorical or narrative sense.

@jaredgilmore3102

Жыл бұрын

Its not only that he gets the god wrong, he also says that the land they had taken does not belong to the Ammonites (it did it was taken by the Amorites whom the Israelites took it from, so the Ammonites claim is legitimate in that sense), its also claiming that Khemosh gives them their own lands (God is the one who partitions the lands no other god can give lands in the biblical theology), other things give the hint the author of judges have no great respect for Jephthah, the mention of his mother being a prostitute, the description of his companions as "worthless men", the foolish vow he makes that gets his daughter killed all of it points to him being a fool, he's also the third to last judge mention out of twelve which would make him well below average as a judge if you accept the structure of the book as assessing the judges from best to worst, which seems evident based on the genre. Early daters also pull the dating of Jephthah out of nowhere, Judges isn't written in chronological order and no independent dating of Jephthah or any of the events described within this story exist so it could be any time period in the judges era approximately 1220 BC - 1060 BC which the early daters simply split the difference on, but why would it be in the middle? Isn't it just as likely to be near the end or beginning?

@str.77

Жыл бұрын

@@jaredgilmore3102 There is no hint that the Book of Judges disagrees with Jephtah's chronology. Assuming that it wasn't written in chronological order is just an assumption While the latter Judges do indeed have problematic traits, a descent from Othniel being the best is also not clear. As for "Khemosh" giving the Ammonites their land, this is consistent with the world view at the time that each gods looks out for his own people. That the god of the Israelites also happens to be the supreme God doesn't contradict that. "evident based on the genre" - which genre? "early daters simply split in the middle" - aside from the stereotypical reference to "early daters", this has no grounding in reality. "Early daters" do not split anything down the middle but arrange Joshua an d the judges in chronological order between the Exodus (according to their dating) and the advent of the monarchy. That chronological order follows the text of the book, taking into account when it suggests a sequence of judges or when it suggests parallel successions. In any case, if the difference between the Exodus and David amounts to a mere 260 years (1260-1000), then one cannot insert Jephthah's 300 years anywhere, regardless of whether one arbitrarily shifts around the judges.

If all the gods of Egypt including Pharaoh were totally humiliated and proven worthless and powerless against two 80 year old men, then one would expect a religious upheaval never before experienced in Egypt. We see this in Akhenaten. He saw the gods of Egypt as totally worthless and tried to erase them from monuments/murals. As far as I know this kind of event only happened in Egypt once in its thousands year history. This gives credence to the 10 Plagues and the total humiliation of Egypt's gods by Moses. This must have taken place before Akhenaten's reign and probably before his father's reign.

ANOTHER THING ABOUT THEBES, if that's where Moses is, and there is a slave city there which is connected to Avaris because the Egyptians are trading and its only about 3 days journey by boat, the times of appointment for Moses are framed in time by the plagues (they weren't having cocktails at the bar), the information needed by the israelites is practically nothing until the passover because they are protected from the plagues, and at the passover the news has to get to all Israel all over Egypt which is easier from thebes than avaris.

If there was a palatial district still being used around 1400 BC as mentioned, it could have been occupied by the pharaoh during the Moses/pharaoh meetings.

Now I been tracking with you . But you saying when God said 480 years he really means another number. Why would God do that?

Another arguement for the late date is that the Bible mentions the Sea People ("Capthor") Philistine invasion - Deut 2:23, Josh 13:2, Jud 3:1-5 (compare Gen 10:13-20, Amos 9:7, Jer 47:4), which was known to happen beginning with Ramesses II, and with more success during later periods. Check out recent archaeological discoveries in Ashkelon where DNA analysis was done on Philistine grave sites - this confirms what the Bible says (Gen 10) about the earlier 'Philistines' being Canaanites, but later invaded by peoples from Caphtor (Deut 2:23). Another thing is something we see in Joshua/Judges as the Israelites entered the promised land: Iron Chariots (Josh 17:16-18, Judges 1:19, 4:1-13). Also, what you don't see: Egyptians. This points to the early Iron Age, after the Bronze Age Collapse, because before that time Palestine was part of Egypt.

@lisacawyer6896

Жыл бұрын

Recommended Book: 1177 by Eric Cline. Well written and gives an excellent historical background.

Michael Jones, lesser known cousin to Indiana Jones

23:20 and then delete all evidence that conversation ever happened! Well done.

The first issue is that most of the dates are pure guesswork, like the Egyptian dynasties. The Greeks actually created a whole dark age as a result and also a mysterious sea people..

I have a very big claim regarding the calculation you made. First of all, the scripture says: "In the four hundred and eightieth year after the Israelites came out of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel" (Book of 1 Kings chapter 6 verse 1). At the end of the chapter it is written (verse 38): "He had spent seven years building it." Which means that the Exodus did not happen 480 years before the end of the construction of the temple, but 487 years before the end of the construction, a prime number that cannot be divided by anything from that the idea of ​​the symbolism of 40 does not make sense, what is more that in Judaism the number 40 does not constitutes an important number at all, the numbers 7, 13, 11, and 3 are yes but not 40. And if I take into account that according to tradition the Temple stood for 410 years and was destroyed in 586 BC, the calculation will be that in 1483 BC the Exodus took place.

Jepthah - David David P Murray

Does finding the ark prove exodus and or God?

13th century Egypt empire controlled the middle east, including the area where Canaan is supposed to be. So, if there was an exodus from Egypt, they would have had to have left the middle east.

Honestly, my first question is usually this: what did Jesus call people who were slow to believe what the prophets wrote? And yes, it is an honest question. Athanasius had a response for the world's opinion...

Hebrews 11:32 Samson and Jepthah - good.

@chadreddick5528

Жыл бұрын

Jonathan Edwards -notes on the Bible- 3 pages of why Jepthah did not murder his daughter

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

You're ignorance is overwhelming- good

The one-flesh - children have genetics from both parents- one flesh

The ark was a throne--the mercy SEAT with wings to cover the hidden face of the Proton. I don't think Egypt had the ελεκτον being DRAWN through 3 shells/courts to a πρώτον by CORDS of love. Only the true creator could reveal the pattern of all things.

(29 August 2023) Wikipedia, in an article titled "Military of Ancient Egypt," noted the following: "The next leap forward came in the Late Period (712-332 BC), when mounted troops and weapons made of iron came into use." If this article is right, that mounted troops (mounted on horses as cavalry) are of the 8th century BC for Egypt, then the perishing of Pharaoh's horsemen in the Red Sea dates the penning of the Exodus to no earlier than the 8th century BC. This means Exodus was not written by Moses circa the 15th century BC (cf. 1 Kings 6:1) or 13th century BC (ca. 1260 BC). Exodus' mention of horsemen (cavalry, mounted horsemen) reveals Exodus is fiction, there being no horsemen at that time in Pharaoh's forces according to scholars. Professor Donald B. Redford (An Egyptologist) understands Exodus was penned in the 6th/5th century BC and reflects that world in its geography, the Egyptian Saite Period. See Donald B. Redford. 1992. _Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times._ Princeton University Press. Princeton, New Jersey.

@marktester5799

9 ай бұрын

The Wikipedia article, "Chariotry in ancient Egypt," states, "Chariots are thought to have been first used as a weapon in Egypt by the Hyksos[1] in the 16th century BC," and, "The Egyptians invented the yoke saddle for their chariot horses around 1500 BC."

@blusheep2

5 ай бұрын

Unless the "horseman" in Exodus refers to the men riding the chariots. If I'm not mistaken they are always put together. That being said, the horseman might have been scouts that headed out in front of the rest and never acted as cavalry.

The evidence is moving toward the later date..

Scott Strippling- the archeologist pulling the artifacts out of the ground says says 1446

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

No he didn't : he sifted through material that was already dug up and found the metal with the inscription: He isn't letting anyone else look at it which is problematic to honest research and verification by other scholars. This does more harm to the Christian position on the truthfulness of the Bible!

@chadreddick5528

Жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 it takes time to publish it. Yes he wet sifted a previous dig. Though he pulls artifacts from the ground in other spots -Ai.

@chadreddick5528

Жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 I'm going to take a guess that he is probably working with Dr. Petrovich on this since he is also doing some ground breaking stuff as well at the same time and earlier.

😁👍

(28 August 2023) Most biblical Scholars speak of an Early Exodus, 1446 BC, or of a Late Exodus, circa 1265 BC. Not realized, and often overlooked, is an even earlier event for the Exodus, circa 1530 BC, and the Expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt by Pharaoh Ahmoses I, founder of the 18th Egyptian Dynasty. The Egyptian version has the Hyksos expelees not whimpering, fearful slaves, but ferocious, fierce warriors, bent on conquering all Egypt, subjecting native Egyptians to Asiatic rule. Only after decades of fierce fighting are these Hyksos Asiatics forced out of Egypt, freeing the country of foreign rule. Professor Donald B. Redford, an Egyptologist, and a Secular Humanist, understands the Exodus as presented in the Bible, is fiction, it never happened. Why? The archaeological evidence contradicts the account, by the evidence found in Egypt, the Sinai, Negev, Edom, Moab, Amon, and Canaan. He understands the Exodus account was penned no earlier than the 6th/5th century BC, and it is this world that is reflected in the Exodus narratives, which are being transposed to circa 1446 BC (cf. 1 Kings 6:1). For Redford, Moses is a fictional character. There was no Red Sea destruction of Pharaoh's chariots and horsemen, no Ten Commandments at Mt. Sinai, no invasion of Canaan from Kadesh-barnea, no invasion of Moab by Moses and no destruction of Sihon the Amorite's kingdom and his capital city of Heshbon. See Donald B. Redford. 1992. _Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times._ Princeton University Press. Princeton, New Jersey. cf. pp. 408-410, and 412-413, for details. My own research agrees "in general" with Redford's observations. Contra Redford, I have sought _the pre-biblical origins_ of the Exodus narratives and events, via archaeological research. It is my understanding that the Bible's Exodus is actually a conflation of real events in three different Time Periods, separated from each other, by several hundreds of years: (1) The 1530 BC Hyksos Expulsion from Egypt has been recast as Israel's 1446 BC Exodus (1 Kings 6:1). (2) The hundreds of Early Iron Age I (1200-1100 BC) settlements in Moab and Canaan. The settlers being from Syria, not Egypt. (3) The Late Iron Age II World of the 6th/5th centuries BC, as noted by Redford. I prefer the Exodus to have been written circa 562 BC in the Babylonian Exile (cf. 2 Kings 25:27), while Redford prefers Post Exilic times, after 539 BC, under domination by the Persians. Google "Mattfeld, Hyksos Exodus" for details.

This thebes rabbit trail is getting interesting, apparently it was also called per hay (beautiful land?) reminds me PI hahirot (this would be the Egyptian borrowed words, BTW, Velikovsky pointed this out back in the 50s. REMINDS me of the prophecy in Isaiah or Jeremiah references CITY OF THE SUN, Heliopolis, if HARAK refers to the Egyptian harakte, now Abu simbel, but CITY OF DESTRUCTION if it's the Hebrew HARAK, and with Hebrew word puns it's probably both), which is not nailed down, and neither is baal zaphon (I love Albright, but he may have been using a modern map), the lake of thebes is not discussed much, and neither is the DESERT ALTAR, and Moses continually requested to go to the desert to make sacrifices, (where would this be from the delta) Also, if thebes wasn't a desert then, we need maps of the area then. Then between Amenhotep and RAMESES we got city shifting and the one God religion looks like the cause of the moves. That's a lot places for mud brick building in the period of 200 years.

The Philistine problem makes the 15th century Exodus improbable.

@jaredgilmore3102

Жыл бұрын

What is that problem?

@animalcart4128

Жыл бұрын

As far as I'm aware there is no Philistine problem within the Biblical text: 1. Philistines: Biblical Archeology kzread.info/dash/bejne/ooZ8xtOIgpqYicY.html

@Qohelethful

Жыл бұрын

@@jaredgilmore3102 The Peleset/Philistines were a part of the Sea Peoples coalition that attacked Egypt after the fall of Mycenean Greece circa 1175. They were defeated and settled in Gaza by Rameses III. We know this because the pottery found in Ashkelon at the time changed from pure Canaanite style to a hybrid greek influenced style and gravesite dna research. So, the Philistines weren't even in Caanan until 1175 and hadn't overwhelmed and culturally integrated into the local Canaanites until after 1200. Given how present they were in the very early portions of Joshua and Judges if as the early daters suggest the Exodus happened in 1450 we have 250 year gap where the Philistines didn't exist in southern Canaan. But we all know that somehow they were still a huge thorn in the side of Israel to the point where Joshua mentions failing to conquer them on his deathbed. Well...they weren't there until c1200-1175.

@freman007

Жыл бұрын

@@Qohelethful Although the group that the Hebrews identify as "Philistines" may not be the group that the Egyptians identify as "Philistines".

@brucegriffin3283

Жыл бұрын

@@Qohelethful Correct. If Joshua is the successor of Moses, and if Joshua overlaps the time of the Philistines (Joshua 13.2), then an Exodus of c1446 BC is excluded. The Philistines are well-documented, and enter Canaan c 1207-1177 BC. Also, Joshua has to confront "iron chariots" (Joshua 17.18); but the Iron Age in Canaan doesn't begin until c.1200 BC. Putting iron chariots into time of 1446 BC is like putting tanks & fighter planes back into the American Revolution; doesn't work.

Taking down videos makes him more legit

It's hilarious seeing these no-life atheists trolling the chat. They really have nothing better to do but hate somebody they don't even believe in. Lmaooo

@lisacawyer6896

Жыл бұрын

Think of it as an evangelistic opportunity.

@zephyr-117sdropzone8

Жыл бұрын

@@lisacawyer6896 I think of it as a bunch of dumbasses crying about nothing.

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

@@lisacawyer6896 they aren't open hearted: just pushing their ignorance of Empty Conjure !

@freman007

Жыл бұрын

@@lisacawyer6896 But why? The Christian evangelizes because they genuinely believe that the message they bring is the key to people experiencing an eternity of bliss and avoiding an eternity of misery. What are atheists offering? "Life's a bitch, and then you die"? Atheists sometimes describe religion as a crutch. Well, supposing it is, what kind of person kicks out a cripple's crutches, and offers them nothing?

480 is not 480. I struggle with that. Why would God make that so grey and not clear? It doesn’t help unbelievers.

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

It was common in ancient literature: as numbers can have a theological meaning as apposed to a purely numerical value! This point will probably come up during the debate!

Yikes. The "evidence" is just not there, man. Not even close!

I’m a follower of Jesus but i think it’s unfair for IP to ask non-believers to approach the Bible with the same level of skepticism and standards of similar ancient texts of its time when we are the ones saying it’s unlike any ancient text of its time and that it’s the inerrant Word of God. If it’s inerrant it should be able to withstand heightened scrutiny.

@gerardmoloney433

Жыл бұрын

It's the only book ever written, with 27% prophecy which came to pass exactly as prophesied. That's all the proof anyone needs. Is there anyone other than God who knows the end from the beginning? Maranatha

@jonnyw82

Жыл бұрын

@@gerardmoloney433 27%?

@jaredgilmore3102

Жыл бұрын

I think its fair to judge it as a historical work, I don't just disregard Homer because its old so it must be a fake story, I don't distrust the Steele from various leaders victory inscriptions despite knowing its nature as propaganda and hyperbole, I would say it was better to sift through the genre for verifiable factual events and only disc out them if you find positive evidence against and again only if you can't harmonize the historical attestation with the available data. This is what people generally do, for example no one of serious nature thinks Alexander the Great didn't exist despite having far less corroborating sources then for example the gospels. As Mike pointed out in the video history is a judgement of probabilities, how probable is an account likely to be based on what was said, the bible is old, it has some very good evidence that many of the events that it accounts for happened and despite what the trolls here will say, no definitive positive proof of any historical attestation being false, and a lot of unconstructed coincidences giving it weight as a solid historical source. This is all separate from its spiritual nature as scripture which cannot be verified using any academic method but potentially could be disproven by attacking is historical veracity, it seems clear to me that those who attack its historical veracity are really trying to attack its spiritual veracity but they just end up looking like hypocrites because they do not using the same standard of veracity for any other historical document.

@jaredgilmore3102

Жыл бұрын

@TheMRB Wouldn't it mean without lie or without leading astray? The bible is not disproven because a printer made a typo or left out a period making an "error".

It always truly puzzles me that Christians never stop and ask themselves why their God has made such an awful job at transmitting his story and his message which, if true, must be the most important thing ever communicated to humanity. Basically, this conversation (and most other apologetic conversations) should not be necessary. Sean and IP are two decent people whose overwhelming emotional and psychological need to believe makes them jump through hoops to try to wrangle some sense and meaning from an old text which they believe to be inspired by a God. When talking about dating the Exodus I think the entire problem was summed up when IP said something like (and I paraphrase) . . . “The Bible isn’t meant to always be taken literally, but also it can be taken literally.” or someone like that. For me, another way of putting it is . . . “The Bible means what it says it does, except when it doesn’t”. Invariably, when apologists argue for a non-literal interpretation of any aspect of the Bible it’s always to explain or rationalise something factually problematic, or morally disgusting, etc. On one level this is very human and understandable, but on another level it’s just plain dishonest. I repeat why is this sort of conversation even necessary? Somewhere in the Bible it says . . . “God is not the author of confusion” . . . well from this (and a million other apologist conversations) that certainly doesn’t seem to be the case.

@grantgooch5834

Жыл бұрын

It's necessary because there are people like yourself who come up with the most idiotic objections possible. See from your comment: //It always truly puzzles me that Christians never stop and ask themselves why their God has made such an awful job at transmitting his story and his message which, if true, must be the most important thing ever communicated to humanity.// And yet here you are, having heard about it. It's strange how basically the entire world has heard about a story that took place 2000 years ago. Go ahead and come up with a way God could have done it better, I'll wait. // Sean and IP are two decent people whose overwhelming emotional and psychological need to believe makes them jump through hoops to try to wrangle some sense and meaning from an old text which they believe to be inspired by a God. // Nietzsche's wish fulfillment argument can equally be applied to atheism. Clearly, you're just an atheist because you can't cope emotionally with the fact that God exists. //“The Bible means what it says it does, except when it doesn’t”. Invariably, when apologists argue for a non-literal interpretation of any aspect of the Bible it’s always to explain or rationalise something factually problematic, or morally disgusting, etc. On one level this is very human and understandable, but on another level it’s just plain dishonest.// So do you treat a poem and a documentary exactly the same, or do you posses basic reading comprehension and the ability to distinguish between different Genres? //I repeat why is this sort of conversation even necessary? Somewhere in the Bible it says . . . “God is not the author of confusion” . . . well from this (and a million other apologist conversations) that certainly doesn’t seem to be the case.// See above.

@hereweare9096

Жыл бұрын

The Bible has amazing depth. I think sometimes we rely on men for validity of the Bible. For me the prophecies within the Bible are astounding. Not sure what you mean as to a non literal interpretation of the Bible though?

@frankwhelan1715

Жыл бұрын

@@ic7204 Yes,but the bible is supposed to be the most important book (from GOD,according to apologiests ,if anyone could make things clear and unambiguous you would think it would be this limitlessly powerful being) much less 'important' books (from humans) give much better clearer instructions,and we are not threatened with eternal damnation for not believing them, and of course millions find it impossible to believe supernatural claims from any of these ancient books, so they are threatened with eternal punishment for something they find impossible and would a human author seeing so much disagreement, different interpretations,+ disbelief, about his book not clear things up? if he didn't it wouldn't be the readers fault, and people don't just believe all video/photo evidience, esp of 'magic' (at least not without further investigation) although I suppose some do,some would believe anything, as has been proven.

@eswn1816

Жыл бұрын

Bible quotes: "Without faith it is impossible to please God " "Faith is the substance of things NOT seen."

@armandvega2752

Жыл бұрын

Your entire comment is basically an ad hominem. You never attack the arguments presented in the video. You never address any of the evidence for the Exodus. All you’re doing is just regurgitating an old atheist talking point, and not addressing any of the actual facts. Also when Christians say that some Bible verses are literal and others are figurative, that’s neither contradictory nor problematic. It’s called READING COMPREHENSION. Something a lot of skeptics seem to lack when reading the Bible. Christians aren’t tap dancing around verses that are hard to understand nor are we moving the goal post when it’s convenient. We’re simply applying basic reading comprehension skills to the Bible the same way a person would for any other piece of literature regardless of it’s genre. For example when it’s said that King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1000 women to himself) that’s a literal interpretation of scripture. Solomon literally slept with 1000 women. When Jesus preaches to people in the Sermon on The Mount to pluck out your right eye and chop off your right hand if either causes you to sin, that is figurative language. Jesus isn’t literally commanding people to mutilate themselves. He’s using hyperbole to stress the seriousness of sin. If you have a a sin that you are struggling with (lust, greed, anger) then you need to take radical, drastic action. So the whole “literal and figurative bible verses” debacle isn’t Christians twisting scripture when it benefits them. It’s the atheists lack of understanding of how language works, as well as poor reading comprehension.

Also Egypt had more than one capital. Thebes was the religious capital and Memphis the administrative capital. The king moved around the capitals. Also the tuhtmoside dynasty would have spent a lot of time in Peru-nefer as it was the launch point for their raids into the Levant…..all of which was in full swing during the 18th dynasty. 11:44

sorry, with all due respect to michael, 1446 is the date that aligns with the events that follow in the rest of the old testament. also, the pharoah was not rameses, literally the only Pharaoh it could have been based on the biblical requirements is ahmenhotep II. douglas petrocih, titus kennedy, and scott stripling (all phd and/or biblical archealogists) do fantastic jobs of laying out why when you tak the information from exodus, 1st kings, the date of solomons temple, and ultimately the first coming of Christ you come to 1446bc, and it allows you to take the 480. years in 1 kings 6 quit literally. w dont hav to play the semantical games like micheal mention of 400 years not menaing a lieral 400 years. as ar as why it matters, it actually gos directly to inerrany and whther God is speaking plainly and accurately. if we start taking secular scholarship and applying it to the bible we start making the claim that th bible couldbe wrong whne it gives specifics like in the biography of the xodus pharoah or the year that solomon started building the temple, which we know the date based on both scripture and the well know dates of the babylonian and assyrian exiles, which then gets us to the birth of christ. you break just one link and it all falls apart

Your evidence appears to be based on a false assumption. The Nom of Geshen or biblical goshen was strategic to Egypt. It’s where the trade routes and highway systems began and ended. When the 18th dynasty overthrew the Hyksos and kicked them out of the capital of Avaris …the sacked the city. However, as Egypt was in a weaken and vulnerable position they rebuild Avaris to included arsenals and military installations to protect the country from what they feared would be another attack. They renamed the city Peru-nefer. It retained that name until the exodus when it was abandoned. In later years when the biblical texts were being updated they included the name Ramses so that contemporary readers knew the area they were referring too. Also if the exodus took place during Ramses II then the city of Jericho had already been destroyed by the time the Hebrews began the conquest. Also Ramses son Merenptah erected a Steella often called the Israel steela because it specifically mentions the people of Israel. No way that is possible if they left under his father Ramses.

What does God's word, the Bible, teach in its whole context? The biblical Exodus is 1606 BC. The Bible is the only valid ultimate standard on which every other truth claim has to be measured. The Bible is not to be adjusted to any 'evidence' whatsoever.

Lol, people alive today can speak concerning a baby in a wicker clothes basket left at the church door.

MIKE SAYS ONE OF HIS STRONGEST ARGUMENTS IS FOR PI RAMESES AGAINST THEBES IS DUE TO LOCATION, that the interactions between Moses and Pharoah required close proximity with assumption that Moses is in avaris and Pharoah is in his palace. 1. Turning the NILE to blood throughout Egypt cannot occur from PI RAMESES (check it on Wikipedia for location and dates) because it's in the delta and the NILE flows north not south, this would argue for THEBES (check it for location and dates). 2. While PI RAMESES was near avaris, the palace at THEBES, with it's own lake and canals connecting both sides of the north flowing NILE from the southern city to the delta in the north, was in it's own territory on one side of NILE and had it's massive slave quarters and service center connected AND it was made of MUDD BRICKS, which the slave army was there to build and repair. That slave city and avaris would have all been Israelites. 3. Since the NILE FLOWS NORTH, the news from Moses in THEBES would travel quickly to AVARIS and therefore to Israel throughout Egypt. MIKE'S PRIMARY EVIDENCE ACTUALLY ARGUES AGAINST PI RAMESES AND FOR THEBES as to dating, but it does actually buttress the case for the actual occurrence of the Exodus because it tends to limit the location to THEBES and that city fits the exodus description and then add Mike's argument for Egyptian loan words in between the the north and south of Egypt and the probable differences in dialect between the palace slaves (which was a massive contingent with care of both palace and city) in the south and the farmer slaves of the north and we are beginning a strong MINIMAL FACTS argument upon which to discuss a "maximal" facts case. PERHAPS RAMESES CHANGED THE LOCATION BECAUSE THEBES MIGHT SEEM CURSED BY THIS TIME AND HE WANTED TO BE IN A BETTER LOCATION IF THE NILE TURNED TO BLOOD AGAIN.

@501Mobius

Жыл бұрын

Thebes is located at 25.720556, 32.610278 Avaris is located at 30.787419, 31.821367 Plugging that into Distance.to the driving distance is 478 miles. At 9.7 miles an hour by Nile boat is 49.27 hours travel time. That is not overnight delivery. But, Rameses can only be in the time of Ramesses or later, not before.

@freman007

Жыл бұрын

@@501Mobius And "Ramses" can be a later scribal gloss, a deliberate anachronism introduced by scribes to tell later readers where the area was located.

@501Mobius

Жыл бұрын

@@freman007 Not just one time but four times gloss. That's a lot of gloss. And gloss for a very narrow time slot as Ramesses was only the capital for 200 years. They didn't keep changing the name each time the Egyptians moved the capital. But, 480 could just be a ceremonial number. Then the early date exodus would be 1446 BC and the conquest 1406. What if Garstang discovered 2 scarabs of Amenhotep III (1389-1353 BC) in a tomb at Jericho?

The destruction of Jericho matches the description in Joshua exactly. We can use Jericho's destruction layer where the red brick upper walls came tumbling down, to date the beginning of the Conquest of Canaan. The is the definitive historical anchor point backed by decades of archeological dig data. So the conquest of Canaan can be dated from Jericho's destruction layer. The Book of Joshua's account is proven absolutely correct The local pottery dating and the Pharaonic scarabs found date this destruction layer to the 1400s. BC. But whatever the date, we can use the destruction layer where the red brick walls tumbled down at Jericho to definitively date the beginning of Joshua's conquest of Canaan. The pottery dating says 1400s BC. ---- We also now have the early Hebrew alphabet inscription from Lachish that dates to the 1400s BC - the milk bowl ostracon. Joshua conquered Lachish.

@str.77

Жыл бұрын

That thus destruction layer can actually be dated to around 1400 is actually controversial. Garstang thought so, Kathleen Kenyon dated it to 150 years earlier.

@mdb1239

Жыл бұрын

​@@str.77 The dating of the pottery at the destruction layer is NOT controversial. It dates to the New Kingdom period or 1400s. Kenyon found New Kingdom scarabs in this destruction layer (i think 3 or 4 of them) and ignored them. Pharaonic scarabs are one of the gold standards of dating destruction layers, the other being the actual pottery. The destruction layer at Jericho dates to the 1400s BC. Amazingly it fits the Joshua text of events exactly. Astonishing. Even one small section of the red brick wall (near the retaining stone wall) did not tumble -- Rahab residence. Astonishing.

@mdb1239

Жыл бұрын

@@str.77 carbon 14 dates at Jericho's destruction layer differ by 700 years.

@str.77

Жыл бұрын

@@mdb1239 The dating of the destruction layer is controversial, though Kenyon dating is widely accepted.

@mdb1239

Жыл бұрын

@@str.77 The pottery and scarabs date the destruction layer to the 1400s. Period. During the New Kingdom period of Egypt. --- If a person wants to believe otherwise, I can't stop them. ==== Supporting Kenyon's date of the 1550s BC doesn't make sense. She based her dates on the lack of Cypriot pottery. And ignoring the New Kingdom scarabs. What???? ==== Most "archeologists" want to support a date in the 1200s for Moses/Joshua and the Conquest of Canaan. Kenyon's date of 1550s doesn't fit the 1200s narrative.

It was a sixteenth century Exedus, not a thirteenth century. False.!

Dead subject, scholars and most layman agree Exodus is Mythological, Theology. Period.

This discussion is a good example of what happens when you treat the bible as a history book. Whether what the bible says is true or not is important to those who look for scholarly support for its veracity. Issues such as whether the Exodus was a historical fact only matters if you take the position that the bible is historically inerrant. In hierarchical societies slavery was a status and many people were held as slaves . No doubt Hebrews were held as slaves. However the exodus story is predicated on the bases that Egypt held the entire Hebrew races as slaves for 400 years. Whether or not there was an exodus presupposes that a population of 70 grew into between 600,000 and 2.5 million in 400 years. Given that the entire population of Egypt at the time was about 2.5 million, the higher number is absurd. Logistically, the movement of such a huge number of people, including children and the aged would have been a nightmare. Carrying enough food and water to feed everyone would have been a monumental undertaking in a temperate environment let alone in a desert . The Egyptians kept records that make no mention of this mass exodus of Hebrews that would have devastated the Egyptian economy.

@LM-jz9vh

Жыл бұрын

You know religious people. They will do their best to hang onto these myths. *Let's briefly run through the 'ten plagues':* First the rivers are turned to blood, all the fish die and the waters stink. No one has any water to drink. This lasted for seven days and would have resulted in mass deaths due to dehydration. Amongst the first to die would have been the children. *The author doesn't think to explain how the Hebrews were saved from this. No record of it was made anywhere in any Egyptian records.* Exodus 7:17-25. This is followed by a plague of frogs which had somehow survived the rivers of blood that had killed all the fish. A mere inconvenience, nothing more, and a big stink when they all died, *but no record anywhere.* Exodus 8:2-13. Next we have the plague of lice about which very little is said *and of course no record was made.* To a people who would have been accustomed to lice this would probably have been nothing remarkable. Exodus 8:16-18. Then the flies. Apart from the land being 'corrupted', whatever that means, there don't appear to have been any ill effects from this and they disappear as quickly as they came a few days later. *Nothing worth recording there, obviously.* Exodus 8:21-31. Now the author seems to begin to lose the plot and describes a 'grievous murrain' *which kills all the Egyptians' cattle, horses, camels and sheep.* ***They all died - hold that thought.*** *No Egyptian historian or keeper of official records deems it worthy of mention.* Exodus 9:3-6. Next come the boils which afflict everyone and everything, including all the livestock ***even though they had been killed by the 'grievous murrain' a few days earlier,*** *apparently, and yet no-one thought to write anything down anywhere.* Of course, anyone who understood anything about microorganisms and the aeteology of boils would have described this as an infestation with Staphylococcus - the signs of faecal contamination - but the author was obviously unaware of these. Maybe he was just in too much of a muddle by now to care. Exodus 9:8-11. Now it's hailstones so bad that every plant, every tree, every servant (for servant read slave) ***and even the livestock (that our story-teller has forgotten already that he killed off in the fifth plague before given them boils in the sixth) were harmed.*** It looks like our story-teller has learned from his earlier silly mistake with killing all the livestock too soon then having to resurrect them later. He mentions that some plants survive. Do I smell stinking fish again? *The greatest hail storm in all Egyptian history, apparently, but not worthy of being recorded.* Exodus 9:18-25. It's the turn of the locusts and it's suddenly obvious why some plants had to survive. *How could the locusts turn Egypt into a barren desert if the hail storm had done it earlier?* Good thinking there. Shame about the earlier boob! *Mysteriously, no Egyptian scribe appears to notice any of this or the inevitable famine and mass starvation which would have ensued.* Exodus 10:4-15. And for the penultimate trick, it's going to be dark for three days. *No one makes a record of this, obviously.* Exodus 10:21-23. The last 'plague' is not so much a plague as a ritual genocide. *Here our tale takes a nasty turn and the true character of the Hebrew god is revealed in all its glory - a petty, vindictive, homicidal psychopath who has not yet acquired the omniscience he will be granted later. He kills every firstborn Egyptian in a single night,* ***including the firstborn of all the cattle that died in the fifth plague.*** *For some reason he needs the Hebrews to leave a secret sign so he doesn't kill them too. Weirdly, he can't tell his own chosen people from ordinary Egyptians and doesn't even know where they live.* And he had been leading up to this, apparently, because after every plague he 'hardens the heart' of Pharaoh so that he wouldn't let the Hebrews go. He had actually been planning this genocide all along just to impress people with his powers. *And still no-one thought even this mass killing in a single night worth making a note of in any Egyptian records.* Exodus 12:1-30. And then, of course, Pharaoh could muster up 600 horses to pull the chariots ***from amongst all the dead livestock from the 5th plague*** (Exodus 14:7). Google *"Rosa Rubicondior: Origins Of The Exodus Myth"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Debunking Christianity: PATTERNS OF POOR RESEARCH- A Critique of Patterns of Evidence:Exodus"* *"For you were (not) slaves in Egypt: The ancient memories behind the Exodus myth - Archaeology - **Haaretz.com**"* *"Why the Exodus Story Has Value Despite Being Complete Myth - Psychology Today Australia"* *"Is the Exodus a Myth? - Worlds Beyond"* *"Historicity of Exodus and Moses - The Creatively Maladjusted"* *"Biblical Contradiction #81. When did the Exodus allegedly happen: during the reign of Rameses II (1279-1213 BC) OR in 1447 BC?"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Biblical Contradiction #87. Does the god of the Hebrews reveal himself to Moses in Midian OR in Egypt?"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Bible Contradiction **#134**. Which Ten Commandments?"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Bible Contradiction **#147**. Who writes the laws and commandments on stone tablets: Moses OR Yahweh?"* - by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Ten Reasons Why the Bible’s Story of the Exodus is Not True - by Tim Zeak - ExCommunications - Medium"* *"Why Moses Did Not Write the Torah - Thomas Shoemaker"* *"Sargon the Great and Moses - The Word of Me… Wordpress"* *"The Death of the Documentary Hypothesis | Rev. David Bokovoy"* *"The Neo-Documentary Hypothesis | Rev. David Bokovoy"* *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history?"* -- by Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

Other Semitic (slaves ) people left with Jacob's family ! They even took their own gods with them and this is why when Moses came down from the Mountain they had made the golden calf one of the many canaanite gods ( Baal) This is why Moses had so much trouble with them only following YHWH and it took time for them to give up these other gods and only follow YHWH. Dr.David Faik Egyptologist answers you're type of objections on Ancient Egypt and the Bible on his channel every Friday.

@kwameadu0075

Жыл бұрын

1. A number of scholars recognize that the population numbers mentioned in Exodus are most likely hyperbole and is in keeping with ANE epics of the period. The Kirta Epic was composed around the same period and it's principle character, Kirta or Keret was most certainly a real person. That epic follows many of the tropes found in Exodus including large numbers. Furthermore, there is another school of thought concerning those numbers. The Hebrew word eleph meaning 1,000 can also mean clan or troop. This is idea has some major proponents including Dr. David Falk. So in essence, Exodus is not saying 600,000 men left Egypt but rather 600 units or troops left Egypt. The author of Exodus knows that the Hebrews are small in number. The author mentions it a number of times. 2. Do not put much stock in lack of Egyptian documentation. Much of ancient history is lost to us. And we have very little in the way of written documents from ancient Egypt especially in the area in and around Pi-Rameses. The area is very fertile and wet and papyrus decays easily in this environment. Most of what we know from ancient Egyptian history comes from temple reliefs. The Exodus would not be found there. As those temple reliefs were designed to praise the gods for granting Egypt victory, good harvest, etc.

@troysuu1781

5 ай бұрын

I keep watching videos like these looking for some evidence of what the Bible actually says: plagues, all the first born dying, the red sea burying the Egyptian army, etc. All I seem to get is talk of Hebrew people existing or dates being thrown around.

The only true believers, ones that are saved - born again are those who know they are sinners and deserve to go to hell and suffer for all eternity. They know their need for God's/Jesus Christ's Grace and Mercy, and it is only because of Grace and Mercy that they are given the free gift of eternal life by Grace through faith. No religion needed. Just faith, faith plus nothing. Believing that Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ., the only name by which a man can be saved.

What century were the chariots they found in the gulf of Aquaba at Nuweiba, Sinai Peninsula? A lot of talk to disprove it even being possible, it’s valid still. The people trying to disprove it are the ones saying something came from nothing, we evolved from monkeys, everything is meaningless, etc. I’m reformed from Atheism. I’m always interested to learn. Carbon dating does not work because it’s based on the premise we’re all at least 5,7xx years old. Half life. To accurately rate anything, you’d need the method to work on both recent and long dead in a coherent mathematical equation. We do not have that because the elements in, on, and around us are changing to God’s will. Just my thoughts. 😁

@str.77

Жыл бұрын

No such chariots were found.

Perfect, the "evidence" presented aligns with what I've always thought. Man creates their gods as well as their religions, traditions and stories. That's what I see in the points made about the ark of the covenant. It was not something that was inspired by the Hebrew god. I was similar to or in the style of other ritual furniture found in that time and at that place. Nothing divine about. Just a fancy box. I don't think there is much debate that what would become the Israelites were or were not in Egypt. There was plenty of trade based movement in the area. But that does not mean there was anything taking place as depicted in the stories of the old testament, such as these people being slaves. So even as an atheist, I have not reason the doubt or take issue with the idea that a migration took place. But it's not anything I would need to take issue with since it does not prove god or gods.

@victorjvanderwoude3102

Жыл бұрын

That's of course is an atheist view of history which can't include anything supernatural.

@DaleBrose

Жыл бұрын

@@victorjvanderwoude3102 I must have missed the supernatural evidence presented in this video. But you are correct, if we're going to consider supernatural evidence then I would also need a much much higher form of evidence. If you accept supernatural evidence then do you accept that evidence for all faiths or just the one that you happen to follow?

@morzanx1

Жыл бұрын

@@DaleBrose they just accept Christian supernatural claims without doing the legwork. I've yet to see a coherent and thorough comparison of supernatural events between religions that concludes any supernatural claims are more reasonable than others. Unless you think conjecture is a solid methodology.

@victorjvanderwoude3102

Жыл бұрын

@@morzanx1 I'd just like to point out as one of those you claim "accept Christian supernatural claims without doing the legwork". I was previously an atheist. It's the legwork which brought me to Christ. I have researched other religions and beliefs. Your response doesn't reflect my experience in the faith. Lots of people have come to faith as adults and this isn't blind faith. Atheists make sure we know the world thinks we're stupid etc.

@DaleBrose

Жыл бұрын

@@morzanx1 Im right there with you. If they want me to accept their unproven supernatural claims, they would need to provide me with very very strong reasoning why their claims are any more valid than the claims of any other faith. They could start with extra-biblical accounts of a supernatural event that was witnessed by an independent source with an independent account of the event(s). I think the reason neither you nor I would see these sorts of comparisons by the church or apologists is because to do so would reveal to their followers the interesting similarities between the events they want followers to believe and that found in other faiths. Often times, very similar to older and pre-existing religions. It's much easier to just keep those things hidden out of site so followers do not begin to wonder if their faith is just recycled mysticism from older faiths. Because, for the most part, they are.

What???!!!??? You said the palace area was abandoned in the 18th Dynasty around Avaris. That means that Pharaoh had a palace at Avaris during the 1400s. So that means Moses/Aaron could have visited the Pharaoh in his palace at Avaris since it had not been abandoned yet. Right? The Bible does not imply that Avaris was abandoned. There were plenty of Egyptians living in the Nile Delta area. The Israelites asked/extorted all the riches/jewelry of their Egyptian neighbors. That means Egyptians - lots and lots and lots of them lived around the Israelites. It is interesting that parts of Avaris were abandoned around Amenthotep II's reign. But so what? I think nothing. I think it makes sense for Pharaoh to be by Nile Delta. This was newly conquered territory and a rich agricultural area. It was a port city to the Mediterranean. He probably travelled between whatever palaces he wanted to be at throughout Egypt. Plus Amenhotep II was carrying out conquest in Canaan including against the Mitanni so logistically Avaris was an ideal location for this whether by sea or land. -- The real issue is the destruction of Jericho dates to around the 1400s BC. There is also a destruction layer at Hazor around 1400s BC. We have Amenhotep III inscription describing the shashu of YHWH for a people in Canaan. That pretty much puts the Exodus out of Egypt before 1400s BC. ---- Why would 480 or 430 be a symbolic number? 400 is understandable but 430? To me Pi-Ramses and Pythom imply that the Old Testament was updated during Solomon's reign as David's Psalms and Solomon's and Asaph's proverbs were being added to the Old Testament cannon. Bottom line: is it all comes to the name of these 3 places. Ramses et al. Everything else is window dressing around this. I think your points on Jericho (contamination of the layers) is unconvincing. The pottery discovered in the Kathleen Kenyon "contaminated" layers point to the 1400s. The Pharaonic scarabs found in these "contaminated" layers point to the early part of the New Kingdom. The shashu of Yahu points to the early New Kingdom period. Akhenaten considering the gods of Egypt to be worthless points the MOST HORRIFIC something/event that happened to discredit the gods of Egypt. If the 10 Plagues happened and Pharaoh's army was destroyed, we should see horrific upheaval in Egypt's religious system. That is only see once in Egyptian history - New Kingdom's Akhenaten.

@frogpaste

Жыл бұрын

Bring this up on Ancient Egypt and the Bible's KZread channel on Friday, Dr. Falk will definitely address your questions.

@mdb1239

Жыл бұрын

@@frogpaste The issue is the Conquest of Canaan. We have firm pottery dates for destruction layers at Jericho, perhaps Ai, and Hazor: it is1400s BC. We have the Amarna letters to Akhenaten from the city-states in Canaan complaining of the apiru. And we have the evidence that the Pharaoh Akhenaten was convinced that all the gods of Egypt were worthless. The Bible says that is what God (YHWH) set out to prove -- that all the gods of Egypt were worthless. The Pharaoh needed one god to fight something all the gods of Egypt couldn't do.

@frogpaste

Жыл бұрын

@@mdb1239 That's great. I told you where you can go ask questions and challange an Egyptologist. Every Friday. He'll be much better suited to respond to your challenges than most people here.

@mdb1239

Жыл бұрын

@@frogpaste Those arguments were for me. Not for anyonelse. It is strange but no one seems to change their views -- regardless of the evidence. Strange how that works.

@frogpaste

Жыл бұрын

@@mdb1239 I know, in fact, I'm witnessing it at this very moment with my own eyes. 😳

If anyone thinks the Bible is the "word of God" and not ancient authors speaking for their imaginary god, they need to read the below article from a critical Biblical scholar and spend some time reading the other articles on his website. "So for example, when we read carefully what Yahweh says in the book of Leviticus, namely that the Aaronids (the sons of Aaron only), are high priests contrary to the Levites, that they alone are Yahweh’s mediators and the Levites are reduced to mere ministers of the Aaronids, that only through sacrifice can one atone for sins and not confession as preached by the Levites, or more precisely the Levite’s Yahweh, etc., *it can be no coincidence that in these laws and commandments,* ***which are placed on the mouth of Yahweh,*** *that Yahweh himself is presented advocating and legitimating the very views and beliefs of the specific priestly guild writing the text, and, contrary to the views and beliefs of their rivals, the Levites and the Levite’s Yahweh!* We will examine this more closely when we get to the contradictions in these books. But in short, this was the function of ancient literature, and we are allowing these ancient texts to speak for themselves. *In this particular case, the Levites and Aaronids wrote specific texts that each advocated their religious beliefs, views, and their position as high priests* ***by writing these sentiments directly into the mouth of their god!*** But just studying the Bible alone, scientifically, affords us the occasion *to see that many of these so-called words of Yahweh are* ***actually the very words of the texts’ authors.*** When we see numerous texts employing this ancient literary technique, and moreover, ***presenting Yahweh as the spokesperson for their own views and agenda,*** *and* ***contrary*** *to Yahweh’s other words in other texts written by other authors employing the same technique,* how can one conclude otherwise. In other words, when in the composite text that we now call the Bible we find: Yahweh declaring that only Aaronids can officiate as his priests and Yahweh declaring that all Levites can officiate as high priest; Yahweh declaring that sin is atoned through confession and Yahweh declaring that sin is only expiated through the sacrificial cult, no exceptions; Yahweh declaring that he gave laws and commandments at Sinai and Yahweh declaring that he only gave the Ten Commandments at Sinai; Yahweh commanding to exterminate all the Canaanites without pity and Yahweh declaring to tolerate them and live in their midst; Yahweh declaring that the wilderness generation were disloyal and rebellious and Yahweh declaring that they were a paradigm of loyalty and faith; Yahweh declaring that he may be offered sacrifices at any altar and Yahweh declaring that there is only one altar where sacrifices are to be offered up; Yahweh declaring that the people saw him at Sinai and Yahweh declaring that they only heard his voice; Yahweh declaring that circumcision is an eternal covenant and keeping the land depends on observing this very commandment and Yahweh declaring the Mosaic laws as the covenant and keeping the land is dependent on keeping these laws; Yahweh declaring that he dwells in the midst of the people and Yahweh declaring that he only resides in heaven; Yahweh commanding Passover to be celebrated by all at Jerusalem and Yahweh commanding it to be celebrated at each person’s home; Yahweh commanding that animals for consumption must be ritually sacrificed and Yahweh commanding that they don’t have to be sacrificed ritually, etc. ***one must conclude that Yahweh is being used by these authors, each with their own contrary views and beliefs as a spokesperson for each of these authors’ agendas.*** These are all the personal, and competing, views, theological beliefs, and religious systems of our biblical authors. And this is only the tip of the iceberg." *"Studying the Bible"* - Dr Steven DiMattei *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them"* -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

LOL BOT

@matthewstott1661

Жыл бұрын

As one who has received miraculous answers to prayers in life which are even profound in the manner of the Acts of the Apostles (....confirming His Word with SIGNS following), and as one who also studied engineering at postgraduate level at Cambridge; I draw your attention to a couple of things: 1/ That God is at war with the proud and those who consider themselves wise in their own eyes. Yet He is gracious to afford opportunities to such to reconsider before it be too late. And 2/ God has expressly outlined in His own Word of Truth that the ungodly and those who take pleasure in unrighteousness shall be confounded, deluded, and shall believe a lie unto their own eternal damnation. Tread wisely and reverence your Maker.

The exodus didn’t take place in Egypt. The Old Testament takes place in Yemen. All the biblical names have been mistranslated because of the Septuagint. River became Nile. Misr became Egypt. The Septuagint was written in Egypt. They made Egypt and Palestine the centre of off all these stories.

@conociendoelislam85

Жыл бұрын

Show your evidences!!!

@davidjanbaz7728

Жыл бұрын

LOL 😆 : no evidence 4 that!

Also Egypt had more than one capital. Thebes was the religious capital and Memphis the administrative capital. The king moved around the capitals. Also the tuhtmoside dynasty would have spent a lot of time in Peru-nefer as it was the launch point for their raids into the Levant…..all of which was in full swing during the 18th dynasty.

Also Egypt had more than one capital. Thebes was the religious capital and Memphis the administrative capital. The king moved around the capitals. Also the tuhtmoside dynasty would have spent a lot of time in Peru-nefer as it was the launch point for their raids into the Levant…..all of which was in full swing during the 18th dynasty.

Also Egypt had more than one capital. Thebes was the religious capital and Memphis the administrative capital. The king moved around the capitals. Also the tuhtmoside dynasty would have spent a lot of time in Peru-nefer as it was the launch point for their raids into the Levant…..all of which was in full swing during the 18th dynasty.