When I was repaired TVs in the 70s the biggest spares box on the van was the valve ( tube ) box. It was the same in the workshop. They weren't very reliable long term. Quite apart from manufacture defects where the vacuum envelope disappears. Having said that I have a seven decades old radio that's still running on its original Mullard valves. However the amplifier only puts out about 3 watts.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Some of Decware's tube amps don't put any more than 4-6 watts as well. I remember changing the tubes in the TV as well back in the 70s after I learned how to.

One of these days I want to build my own tube amp and build a nice set of speakers. When I can afford to buy the parts! I did find that buying better tubes does make a difference. I upgraded my Little Bear T11 tube phono preamp and it turned out great! It came with 6N2 tubes and I put 12AX7 tubes in with better caps and walla! I just uploaded my first of two A and B comparison videos so viewers can hear the difference. I ordered a DIY kit from the DIY Store to build a tube headphone amp/preamp. I'm slowing converting to tubes!

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I can't wait to hear your progress. I too converted to an all-tube solution and love it. Building your own is extremely ambitious. Maybe one of these days I'll have the confidence to try it myself. :)

I've had an early 60's Kenwood tube receiver for several years and love it. So far I've only replaced the EL84 output tubes. I bought some JJ's at Sam Ash that sound fine and were not expensive.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

EL84s - great tubes and not too pricey. Good for you with the Kenwood!

I was a solid state guy for the longest time. I recently changed things around and got the Schiit Freya+ preamp and am pairing it with the Jeff Rowland 125 solid state power amp. I use the Freya strictly in tube mode. I do like this combo. I am not a tube roller. I got some Sylvania tubes and am happy with them. Thanks for the video!

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

And thank you for watching! I appreciate it. This channel is just as much for me to learn from folks as it is to talk about what I’ve learned.

The main reason I buy into Xduoo is that they’re the only tube amp company that mostly uses the 12au7 tube. It’s the one tube that has an enormous variety of sound signatures available in tubes. Therefore, I own a TA-22 and a TA30. My tubes are 4 Shuguang Black Treasures and a Sophia Electric rectifier. For my tube amps, I’ve created a platform plinth to mitigate vibrations. Made of 2 cutting boards and various Iso-feet. Springs on the bottom, rollers in the middle and spikes on the top.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I've heard of xDuoo but had to look them up when I read your comment. My phono stage uses a 12AU7 as well.

My humble analogy of a Tube over SS amps is like a Accoustic guitar or even a piano; a Synthesizer can mimic those instruments but it is not the same as the analogue counterparts.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

That is an excellent analogy. Love that.

OMG. I run a system with 3 Dynaco ST70s and three tube preamps 18 hours weekly for years in my garage. Every Sunday from noon to past midnight in North Texas. It's blazing hot anyway, but stifling in the garage (the garage door is open of course LOL). Never had a failure from heat.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Texas tube listening party :)

I received my Decware Zen SE84UFO2.1 amp this summer after waiting nearly 2 years for it to arrive. Outstanding amp, the journey is over...other than my tube and speaker obsession. I had the "tube taste" a few years back when I purchased a FOZ SSX Sound Stage Expander and connected it to my solid state amp. It acted as a tube buffer as well. Just by rolling a 12au7 tube in the FOZ gave me a variety of different tones (eliminates the need for a preamp IMO). I have it connected to the Zen now and the synergy between the two components are spot on. Next, I'll be looking at a pair of Omega single driver speakers, which I've heard are perfect with tube amps. Funny enough I was on Brent Jessee's shop yesterday. I've purchased tubes from Upscale Audio with positive results but appears that Brent Jessee has a much broader variety of tubes. Enjoying the VC, keep up the great work! Oh..In addition - The Zen is super transparent. The SSX comes in handy on bad recordings. With that said, I purchased an inexpensive router TC-7240 4 on Amazon (UK designed - solid). When a recording is too revealing in a bad way, I flip the switch on router for the SSX to do its magic.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Thrilled to hear about your Decware experience and that you received it. Must have felt like you hit the lottery when it arrived. Brent Jesse is a favorite stop of mine for NOS tubes. For the Mullard KT88 reissues I went with Tube Depot in Canada - excellent customer service there and fast shipment.

@noblesavage23

11 ай бұрын

It was like winning the lottery, my birthday and Christmas all rolled into one! The separation of instruments and detail is insane. I'll checkout the Tube Depot, cheers. The Mullard should provide you with some pretty sweet tones. Thankfully, I only have four tubes to obsess over! btw, You landed a great amp yourself. Enjoy!@@TheJoyofVinylRecords

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

@@noblesavage23 just realized I said “Tube Depot” - meant to say “Tube Store” at www.thetubestore.com/. Tube Depot has a good reputation as well.

I've been using a hybrid Conrad Johnson EV20 amp ( tube input, sold state output) with a CJ ET5 all tube preamp for the last five years and couldn't be happier. I think I've found a good balance between tube sweetness and the low end ummphhh that I like to feel when listening to rock music. Eventually I'll be looking into replacing tubes in both units so your video provided some helpful information when that time comes...thanks very much!!

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Hi Louis! Keep me posted on what you decide to do with the tubes. I’ll be curious to hear your impressions. What tubes are you running with the EV20 and ET5?

@louismartinez7387

11 ай бұрын

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I'll check into it and get back to you.

i highly recommend the orange vt 1000 tube tester if your tubes are compatible and you can find one. i also recommend getting vintage tested tubes ,the greatest hits and to compare them in your preamp with the same gain ratings, you have to hear a vintage mullard ,rca or telefunken on your gear life is too short to miss out. btw nos preamp tubes can last 10000 hours.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I just looked it up @yaniv-nos-tubes and now I know what I want to get next :). Thank you for the recommendation!

I ran a DYNA Stereo 70 a few decadesnback and enjoyed the sound but was not the cost of replacement tube especially the output tubes. A couple of decades later in a moment of weakness I bought a Jolida 502 that used 8550 output tubes. Back then those tuber were dear but now their really pricey I settled my tube fancy with a Conrad Johnson PV-10a preamp and a Hafler DH220 power amp. That gave me the sound of tubes with the tube preamp and the reliability and sound of vertical FETs. Now I'm running the Rogue RP5 and a pair of PS Audio mono blocks.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Rogue makes some great units, as does PS Audio. Do you notice the difference with mono blocks?

Honestly , if your going to commit to valve audio , the cost of tubes is a small inconvenience. Learning how to bias them , buying an adequate tube tester and quality multimeter. Learning to replace a resistor or capacitor for your self so you don't have to ship your amp off . Tube gear is a fantastic way to become an amateur technician. Read , learn, and enjoy the journey.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Thanks Jeff. My desire is to do just as you stated - to be able to repair my own amp if something should go wrong. It's so heavy I can't imagine the cost of shipping it off somewhere for repairs.

@jeffharper410

11 ай бұрын

@TheJoyofVinylRecords The first thing I'd look at on a new power amp is the value of the Cathode resistor. I'd order a couple . If you have an tube die open ,no problem. If it closes short ,you will be replacing the Cathode resistor. Also ask for schematics when buying gear. They can save you a lot of trouble shooting time.

I first got my first tube amp a vintage amp that ate tubes, circuits and anything on its chassis. I went on a search for something more dependable I went with an American made Decware amp. Even so Tubes do add to the cost and if your amp has rare or expensive tubes it really gets expensive.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Ate the tubes - yikes! Sounds like a horror movie.

great vid. as always. i think if a person can afford it. they should have a solid state system and a tube system to notice the difference between them. also you can have a solid state preamp. or a tube preamp into solid state class ab amp. i have a solid state class a and a tube class a preamp. i love hearing different sound patterns in music. also you can find bargain nos. tubes on e bay. some for me were good some were not. great video.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Thanks Joseph! Before the Galion I was running a solid state Denon with a Project tube phono stage. I swapped that out recently for the Tavish Design, but I agree - the sold state with the tube phono stage is an excellent option.

Used ti listen to The Shadow every week. Love my tube amp, a Carver Crimson 275. Worth the extra costs.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

9 ай бұрын

That is an absolutely beautiful amp - especially aesthetically. Have you ever had to change the KT-120s?

I've had my tube amp for about 10 months now. I replaced my stock tubes right off the bat and so far that's all I've done. So we'll see how it goes a few years down the road. Will I upgrade to a more expensive amp, or stick with what I have and roll the tubes again? The journey never ends if you are a music and audio gear lover. But that's what makes it fun! Listening to my favorite music on equipment that makes it sound natural and as lifelike as possible makes me happy. Cheers! 🍻

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Cheers Neil!

I sold my Quicksilver Monos a few months ago, and have missed the tube sound ever since. I recently picked up a vintage restored late 50’s Magnavox 6V6 tube amp from a friend for $300. I have my GLOW back and my warm tube sound without going broke 😊

@scottlowell493

11 ай бұрын

I had the V90's. They sounded warm and lush despite having inexpensive Chinese tubes. Due to cost, I never tried better power tubes. The V90's sounded great, so long as they weren't used to drive something that would run them out of gas. (Like ribbon hybrids )

@ronniecramer1252

11 ай бұрын

@@scottlowell493 I’m using mine in a bi-amp setup driving Tang Band full range drivers, and my Digital Cherry Monos driving a pair of Eminence 15’s through a Marchand Xover. It’s all good.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Just had to look those up - beautiful!

I bough my VAC PA 100 100 tube amp and my ARC LS15 tube pre amp back in 1995 I just replaced the original KT88 Golden Dragon and the 12ax7's tubes after all these years Both are working flawlessly 🤞🤞

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

This is great to hear! Fingers crossed, I won't have to replace them anytime soon (unless I decide to roll)

I consider the tube rolling *option* as one of the main reasons for preferring it over SS on the lower power side. Rather than buying different SS component, just get some different tubes, and you have a new component! So in a different sense, tube amps are cheaper. I swapped a stock tube out of my Woo WA6SE headphone amp for a WE 422, which set me back by a bit, but the sound is just amazing! Also, SS need to be recapped at some point, and the heat argument does not apply to pure class A SS amps; I run a PassLabs XA25 power amp, fronted by a PrimaLuna EVO 300 pre (tubes), and an EAT eglow petite phono stage (tubes).

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I wasn't familiar with the EAT eglow until you mentioned. Looks like a great unit. I also like that you can set everything without relying on internal dip switches or switches located beneath the chassis.

@jaybird123xx

11 ай бұрын

Let's not forget,tube amp power supply resistors and caps fail over time. Replaced a few resistors to bring amps back to life.

I built my single ended tube amp 20 years ago. Changed power tubes 2 times. And it's 100mA per tube continuous current. Preamp tubes have 25 years and are still 100% in spec. Changing tubes is Not necessary, in most of the cases. But less than honest repairmen love it: quick, huge margin, and you can resell the "bad" tubes inifinite times.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Always impressed when I hear about someone like yourself building their own amp. Somewhat intimidated by the idea personally - but who knows, maybe someday.

I've been thinking about taking the dive and trying a tube amp again. This would be my second attempt. The first amp I bought turned out to be a hybrid amp, with tubes in the preamp section and solid state in e power amp section. I have to admit that I was pretty happy with it until it died about six months after I bought it, and the manufacturer was no help. The amp I'm looking at now is all tubes in both the preamp and power amp sections, and it has a phono stage, which is important to me. The amp has decent reviews (so did the first one). Just having trouble pulling the trigger after my last experience.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

10 ай бұрын

Ugh - that was a bad experience. Six months later? Nightmare. I'll never knock solid state - really enjoyed the one I had before going all-tube all the time. Now I can't imagine not listening through an all-tube solution.

@joealberti8553

10 ай бұрын

Well, I pulled the trigger. I ordered the amp. I should have it by next Tuesday or Wednesday. Hope this one lasts longer. @@TheJoyofVinylRecords

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

10 ай бұрын

I can't wait to hear about your experience @@joealberti8553 . Please keep me posted.

That Galion would be the # 1 pick for a tube amp for me. Absolutely bad @ZZ and great watts per channel output for a tube amp. I like the simplicity of biasing the tubes and the A to AB switch feature as well. Just AWESOME! Please make a video for us of your system playing with the camera panning around the components etc. Love those types of videos. 😎

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

The Galion has transformed my listening pleasure. Extremely happy with it. I also rolled the tubes and it now runs with Mullards instead of PSVanes. I like the idea of the video - only thing I can't do is play something with sound that causes copyright problems. If I could I would have so much more fun with this channel!

@motuknight5569

11 ай бұрын

Good Point! Didn't think about that. Curse you Copyright laws!! LOL! Keep up the great content! @@TheJoyofVinylRecords

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I'll try @@motuknight5569 !

@frankgeeraerts6243

11 ай бұрын

The Galion is a good sounding amplifier ..................but you will not own it for a lifetime....it will die some day unlike older amplifiers of the past that one can service and keeping alive. But it will bring you joy within its life time cycle... Buy some stock tubes for the future ....NOW ! For higher quality reproduction one must go for electronics like those made by AN, Kondo, Shindo and some oter brands ............at a price but for a lifetime of joy... Or when you're a skilled tube engineer or an autodidact with a lifetime experience .........you can build your own amplifier WITHOUT any commercial limitation .........and yes even into the highest brands there are still commercial considerations ... Have a nice day and a lot of joy with your new toy......

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Thanks again @@frankgeeraerts6243 !

Oh my, inner sanctum, mystery theatre, x minus one.. I made an AM transmitter to use with my old radio, and I used to play these shows when my daughters were younger. It was like a time machine, and the transmitter was really a small version of the big radio station, plate modulated 6w6, complete with a modulator and a compressor for AM radio frequency, and since I live in a remote area, it didn't bother anyone. It was something very amazing to listen to these old broadcasts with old radio from the 20s to the 50s. I also have some older tube stereo systems, sansui 1000A and sm-32 receiver, and an eico ST-70 integrated with the matching tuner and multiplex. I've restored all of them to the original specification. I'm an electronic technician, and I do repair and restore these. The downside is that I have a huge backlog, and the parts can be expensive.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

That's amazing! I have an old Silvertone tube radio from the early 40s that still works and I've always wanted to play those old radio shows through (X-Minux One is another favorite). I just could never find an AM transmitter to do so. I don't have the skills to make one as you did. Love that you accomplished that!

If you where to by original for instance Mulard tubes they do cost a lot more because they are no longer being made here in the UK then factor the amount of hours they will last for it becomes a very expensive throw away.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I have to say I am completely happy with the Russian Mullard repros I picked up. So far so good!

@itsonlyme9938

11 ай бұрын

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Interesting but what is the situation with Russian imports have they stopped and are they going to become difficult to get hold because of the war then there is the risk of the price going up. I did have in my guitar amp Chinese ECC83 and know using Mullard ECC83 they do sound very different. I purchased a valve tester from the 1960,s which is very useful for checking the tubes in my guitar amp and checking my output tubes are matched and over time they can drift apart the spec.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I have a valve tester on my list now. Just need to find an affordable one.@@itsonlyme9938

I've been a tube fan for over 35 years and have always considered the aesthetic qualities of hifi gear secondary to sonic qualities. Looks sell, just ask any of the folks into "vintage" solid state from the 1970s. Looks sell and the makers of those amps and receivers knew it. I just restored a Fisher 800B that has been in my inventory since the late 1980s, albeit not in working condition for a number of those years. And, as in years past when that Fisher was in heavy use, I love it. However, the electronics were not made for viewing, they were made for hearing. And its still a gorgeous piece of equipment in its walnut case. Also, if you ever get into 7591 amps be prepared to kiss your tube rolling days goodbye. The stock of 7591 power tubes is very limited compared to other types as they were used in audio only and didn't share a dual life with amps for musical gear. Point being, buy tubes only for the sound quality if that's your thing. But don't buy a tube amp just because it makes for an awesome night light or a handy back-up space heater.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

8 ай бұрын

So many good points to call out there Jeff. I just looked up the Fisher 800B and what a gorgeous piece of equipment (speaking of look sell!). Is it true that it employs 22 tubes???

Thanks for this Rick. Love your reviews. Short and sweeet. But here I need to tel you my tube drama. Sorry for saying this but a very frustrating point you missed that has been happening / playing off for months. I have a set of tube mono’s power amps. Each using 8 x KT120 power tubes. I recently lost two tubes. Time for replacement of 16 x KT120. Ooouch. Ouchhh for ? …can not find KT120 tubes. Money not yet even part of the drama. Ooouch for having very expensive amps but useless due to issues around tube availability due to war in Russia I was told. And now waiting 6 weeks and counting for feedback if Amps suited for KT150 power tubes. 😡😡😡😡😡

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Oh no Pieter! That’s a nightmare. I’m really sorry to hear that. I never thought to include tube shortages. That’s a definite hidden cost - especially now. 8 KT120 per amp? That must put out a lot of power. Do you mind me asking what amps those are?

@pietwentzel007

11 ай бұрын

Rick they r Synthesis Metropolis NYC500 Bought as showroom display units. Yes dont need this much power. But got a great deal… so I thought but can not blame Synthesis who makes in my view the best match for SF speakers. Now using their Roma 98 DC 80W monos. Just 👌👌👌👌👌 😉

YES, this post did help me / it helped me to avoid going down another rabbit hole - which would include tube amps & tubes. Just can't afford another expense to my music listening. 😉

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I get it Jimmy. It really is another rabbit hole - one I keep dipping my head into.

Electricity cost in some states are way higher…my electricity bill went up $120/ month when I had a tube amplifier…but the beauty of tubes and the sound is just worth it….

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Ugh - $120. Prices jumped here in NH last year so I expected my amp was going to push that bill a lot higher than it did. Especially being in Class A. Still - I don’t doubt I will see it get even higher. Electricity prices continue to climb. My only hope is the heat from my amp will help cut down on the heating bill this winter 😂

@Staybrown11

11 ай бұрын

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords yes, my bill went up in the 🥶 winter…I had a Doge integrated with 6550 tubes and switch up brimar and telefunken in the preamp section.

Your thoughts coincide exactly like mine. Your video shows the tube amp glowing in dim light. THAT is the warmth folks are talking about. you sit in a darkened room, with a glass of wine, with that amps tubes glowing beautifully. The warmth is more VISUAL tha audible. Tube warmth is higher distortion, higher noise, lower dynamic range, high and low rollof and damping factor. In other words, tube warmth is BS.

Put it in relative context though; for a music enthusiast, tube replacement costs are likely still less than the annual expenditure on actual music source material to enjoy?

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Great point considering the amount of money I spend on vinyl :)

Great points. Let me start off by stating I am a tube head. Over the last 30 years I have owned products from Anthem/Sonic Frontiers, VTL, Zesto Audio, Audio Research, and PrimaLuna. To my ear there is no topology that can render the human voice as natural as a tube piece can. Nonetheless, when someone wants to get into tubes, I do my best to talk them out of it. The long and short is they are a hassle. Especially if you have a design that has poor protection circuitry, where a sacrificial resistor is used. Lugging an 80-pound piece of equipment to get it repaired is not fun, not only do have the cost of the repair, but there is also the labor of finding the failing tube, and the cost to replace it. On many designs you still have to Bias the tubes. This is not much of thing when you have a stereo amp that only has 4 tubes or so. A pair of Monos with eight each? Now we are talking 90 minutes or longer. Heat is also a hidden gotcha, if you are in cold climate, they will help reduce your heating bill, sure enough. However, if you want to listen to them in 100-degree heat that cooling bill is going eat up anything you saved on heating your house. As stated, they are a technology that requires maintenance, tubes are like the lamp on projection TVs they will last awhile but will eventually burn out. Right now, the replacement cost for the Russian made KT-88, KT-120 and KT-150 are just insane. That is if you are lucky enough to find them.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

100% agree on all points. I just rolled my KT88s and it wasn't cheap. It changed the sound to my liking but it's certainly not something I plan to do again anytime soon. I was thinking the same thing recently about the tubes ability to enhance voice reproduction.

Wait till you get into good tube preamps such as the Cary SLP-05 and tube roll them with 'premium' NOS tubes. That's when you know you are totally hooked.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Great products! I do have a few NOS tubes in my signal path (Mullard &Telefunken currently).

Tube preamps often have tubes that last longer and are cheaper to replace than power amp tubes . I'm a fan of tube preamps teamed with solid state (including class D) power amps of similar quality . Tubes are best at voltage amplification while solid state is best at current amplification . Do not team a high output impedance tube amp with a low input impedance amp of any kind .

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Words to live by!

Tubes are not that intense that constant replacements are going to break the bank. It all depends how long how much the amp is used. The older equipment should not be left on 24/7 idling away. May even be a fire hazard. There are so many ways to get into wasteful spending buying tubes to expect a different audio experience. Gets down to needing test instruments to detect anything. I own a Heath A100 tube amp. Bought an upgraded power amplifier board for the 4 output tubes and it's a beautiful 30 WPC amp. Nice clean audio.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

What a great looking tube amp the Heath A100 is! Had to look it up. Beautiful.

@ 4:10 probably high ten thousand hours? Maybe a 300B based power amp, or preamp tubes; But most power output tubes? My Transcendent Sound T-16 OTL, monobloc kits, utilize 16 Soviet era, voltage regulators formerly deployed in ivan's military airships avionics, per channel. The 6C19 PI, (American designation), tubes have a minimum 5000 hour lifespan, and prior to the Ukraine invasion, cost me $2.05 per tube. I bought 320 of them and am set. Previously was building Class A, MOSFET output stage, multitiered power supplies, "Lang Amp", published in the Audio Amateur, from their PCBs. Connecting the cathode directly to the loudspeaker, has made SS, for me, a thing of the past. BTW, the heat output for each channel, about 200 Watts.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

320 ! You’re all set for life I would imagine. Good for you for the foresight!

What about the maintenance of tubes. They only last a few years then they deteriorate completely, so every few years you have to replace all the tubes.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

True - that's definitely a concern that folks should take into account when jumping into tubes.

Honestly, if you become a real solid state nerd, it has a lot hidden costs as well, right ? You will most certainly get eager to swap those old low quality capcitors for premium audio grade counterparts, and that vol-pot must of course also get swapped for a real good one or even auto-trafo solution. And those transistors ought to be changed to higher grade ones, and then, of course you need fancier, more effective heatsinks, without a doubt. The main difference is that tubes are normally visible and even for the layman/enthusiast simpe to swap for more exotic ones, or just plain other ones, since it is fun to experiment. Even in SS-devices, things get old and have to be replaced, like a bunch of electrolytic capacitors. It gets warm under the hood of a SS-amp as well, and well designed tube amps are vented in a way that makes life for components in the cicuit comparable to that in SS-amps.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for weighing in on the SS amps. I've owned a couple but certainly can't speak to them and their maintenance as well. Out of curiosity, are top quality capacitors expensive?

Tube amps tend to take longer than solid state amps, to sound their best, in two areas: 1) When you first install a set of tubes, they need to burn in. So your stereo will not sound its best. It will still sound very good, but less than its potential. It could take 100+ hours before your tubes start to shine (so to speak). Perhaps longer. 2) Even after your tubes are burned in, you will still not hear the best your stereo has to offer, for 20 or 30 minutes. You need turn on your stereo, put on some song (low volume is fine), and walk away and do something else. Return later, and your stereo will be properly warmed up. Tube amps definitely benefit from 20 or so minutes of warming up. I am not sure about solid state amps. They probably benefit, too, from warming up. I believe that tubes take longer to warm up.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

9 ай бұрын

I agree with all of that! I let me tubes warm up for -2-3 hours before using. 20 minutes is fine too. Being a Class A amp it's constantly pushing power.

Nothing will ever sound like tubes, no matter what engineers and digital alchemists tell ya.

@dougleydorite

11 ай бұрын

Sometimes I think transformer saturation or tape saturation sounds better than tubes. Depends on what kind of color I’m trying to add to the sound. Tubes aren’t accurate to the source material because they add color..

@thinkIndependent2024

11 ай бұрын

Bob Carver? Said different but keep loving it I go Tube PreAmp & A very neutral solidstate. May I'm fooling myself until I replace my main Tubes

@petrvodkin5001

11 ай бұрын

@@dougleydorite Good color!

@dougleydorite

11 ай бұрын

@@petrvodkin5001 although I do agree, I think you’re missing the point. I have guitar amps that are tube, microphone that is tube, analog outboard processors that are tube etc. the good tube color is added into the recordings, including in the mastering process. Therefore, I don’t want added color in playback systems coloring an already heavily tube colored signal. This where a lot of tube magic fairy dust folklore is misunderstood until today, but more people are being properly educated

@petrvodkin5001

11 ай бұрын

@@dougleydorite You're right, but i'm not really about the color, i'm more about how the sound jumping out from the speakers with tubes, whereas with a solid state it's kinda sits in the speakers. As good and beautiful, as a solid state guitar amp might sound, it does not filling the room with sound, like a tube amp does, especially PTP wired, same thing goes for PTP vs "great" PCB, - PCB will NEVER sound and feel like PTP, no matter what fairy tales a manufacturer will tell people. To each his own!)

I just sold a rare tube amp It needed a small repair but if I ever had to replace the tubes it would have cost me what it was worth.

Rick Coste: "I'm Old..." Need a Rick t-shirt. Just your face and I'M OLD...

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I'll have to have those made up!

That's why I like 6L6, 6V6 and EL84 tube amps. They aren't tubes that cost so much. Even old tubes are cheap enough

Having owned many many tube amplifiers. And using them in design work. I run one about 12 hours a day everyday and tubes can last me years.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

12 hours a day! Wow! I think I'm around 6. Ever had a tube burn out? Curious how long it took fore that to happen (understanding every tube is different and with different variables).

@kloss213

11 ай бұрын

I design loudspeakers so I use amps heavily. Yes have had tubes burn out or get microphonic etc. But its not costly and not common. I would also add a class A SS amps not saving you energy and many are partly powered on 24/7 unlike tubes.@@TheJoyofVinylRecords

I think the "possible" extra cost of tubes would be a more accurate title. (Electricity costs aside). 99% of people you and I included, buy new valves because they want to , or are frightened not to change them after some arbitrary amount of time. The only thing that will affect a tube is if air gets into them .there are valves still being used that are more than a century old with no problems . In fact the whole NOS and second hand market excysts because of their reliability. If by misfortune you happen to have one with a microscopic leak then your tube might last from minutes to the often quoted 10,000 hours if they have no leak then they should in theory last indefinitely, something you can't say about any solid state technology. You don't need to buy military grade valves ,but if you want to be especially cautious the American and Soviet design criteria where deigned to be especially rugged. Although I own a Prima Luna evo 100 integrated amplifier, the cost /fun of tube rolling was one of my main considerations . My tactic [So advice] will be leave the NOS market to the rich. you can get copies of all of them new usually made in much shorter runs, under possibly more carefully controlled conditions. They are knaw considered a luxury item but the majority of the original generation where mass produced as cheaply as possible.( military aside). I know that particularly people who have spent vast fortune's on enviable collections of valves I would love to own; will hate me for saying this but in so far as there is an old stock sound most of that difference will be down to age degeneration . like pooting a razer sharp knife in a drawer ,even if you don't use it after years it will be slightly less sharp than when it went in. To continue the analogy, I understand of coarse the argument "Who wants a sharp butter knife" but if that means bidding four figures in piece meal acquiring enough valves to power your amp instead of say under £200 on a fully matched Quad of new ones , I have to wander A} is it worth it. and B} will it even sound as good as a properly matched sett.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Great analogy - especially when considering decades old tubes. I've heard similar comments about the American and Soviet modern productions so it's good to hear you echo those sentiments. Thanks John!

$1500 Chinese tube amp. $500 to buy a spare set of tubes, as they will fail at some point. $200 in parts to replace poor quality components, but worth every Penny as it sounds great, and learn a lot ripping it apart and rebuilding it chasing the source of hum and noise. Can do this on 100 year old tech. Just spent $200 replacing preamp tubes with JJ tubes, as one of the tubes were very microphonic. Thought the hum came from the 1 microphonic tube as you could see the hum on the oscilloscope follow the tube as I moved it between channels. Still hums. And interesting that even if a tube makes a lot of noise, that noise is often still not perceptible. Most expensive piece of audio gear I have ever owned, and also has the most problems, but it does sound better than my Mid-FI Solid State amps (Adcom, Acurus, Carver, Yamaha,Sony). Sounds less dead, less sterile, has more soundstage. Now I want to go on 3 year waiting list and buy a $3 to 4k amp….Tube Amps are a disease. Especially be ware of buying “affordable” amps, as there are many hidden costs and failures lurking in your future. Do more research than normal, don’t take the word of KZreadrs saying how great things are after they try things for one month. Some amps have some pretty major design flaws that will result in failure.

@ronniecramer1252

11 ай бұрын

You can buy a Decware Zen Triode for $1200. Which comes with a lifetime warranty if you have efficient speakers and don’t mind waiting 2 years to get it. You will never find a solid state amp that sounds better.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Excellent words of advice. By any chance is the waiting list you are considering a Decware amp? I looked at them to a while back but simply don't have the patience to wait. What happens if I don't live that long?

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I've read so many great things about Decware.

@ronniecramer1252

11 ай бұрын

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I had a Zen Triode, that I sold about two years ago. I actually regretted selling it afterwards. I ordered the next version in June of 22. I’m probably still at least a year away. My preamp is a LTA tube model. I think once you get used to the tube sound, your hooked.

LOL I have always avoided ever listening to a tube-amp, I am afraid of that I may love the sound so much that nothing can do it for me anymore, except a genuine tube-amp. But I can simply not afford the extra costs, I would jump on the tube wagon if it got possible to buy solid state tubes with a real tube sound, but hey this may never happen. :-)

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

If it does happen, and someone does make one, let me know - that would be wild. I get it though - I tend to stay away from some vendor listening rooms I encounter for that reason. I'm afraid I'll hear something that will make me question my own setup.

Isn't everybody ignoring something? They say tubes stray from accuracy by coloring the sound. Here are some ways transistor amps (even the good ones) stray from accuracy. 1. They sound edgy compared to tubes. 2. They have more "electronic signature" than a good tube amp. 3. They sound thin and lack body compared to tubes. Like a cardboard cutout, with only 2 dimensions.. 4. They are stingy with warmth compared to tubes. 5. They lack 3 Dimensionality versus tubes. 6. There's less space between the instruments compared to tubes. 7. They have more glare in the sound compared to tubes. 8. They are generally bright and hifi sounding compared to tubes. 9. Except for class A, they have notch or switching distortion from transistors switching on and off depending on programme demands, which is no problem for tubes. 10. They have more TIM distortion than tubes, which is a much uglier sounding distortion than the predominantly even order harmonic distortion of tubes. You don't have to buy expensive vintage Mullard tubes. Plenty of less expensive options. I recently got a pair of Sylvania tubes, 1970s vintage NOS, at auction for way less than $10 the pair. They have much better depth than Mullards generally, and they have more sparkle on top, which is just what I needed. To people accusing tubes of coloring the sound; transistors veer from accuracy too. In a more serious and less genuine sounding way in my opinion. Tubes actually tell the truth more. They both veer from accuracy. But people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

This was one of the best breakdowns I've yet to read. Thank you for taking the time to capture all of this. Seriously - great information!

Tell me about it. Especially now with the Russian embargo. 🤬 But that sound! 😇

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I've done a few searches for tube availability and it's slim pickings out there. Not impossible to find them but the prices... wow.

i guess thats why SS is trying to sound like TUBES/VALVES.

I'm almost 70 and I remember the days of tube stuff from TV's to all other manner of electric products. There is a reason that tubes went away and several of them you mentioned. One problem which should be considered, what if a manufacturer of a tube or a set of tubes goes out of business? Companies sell a product because it is profitable and with tubes the market isn't large and it only takes a company sale or a sales decision which changes whether a company wants to continue making a product. The fewer the producers the higher the prices will be. Tubes were a dying product but in the very recent years they were resurrected because like vinyl they came back to a limited degree of popularity. As long as demand is there the product will be produced but what happens if it drops off again? Yes, consumers can be very fickle and change their minds in a heart beat.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

That’s an excellent point. Pieter (another commenter) mentioned his frustration at finding KT120 tubes. It’s not because they aren’t made but the main supplier (I believe) is in Russia. With the war there’s a shortage. As you pointed out - fewer produces = high prices. It’s not like someone can go out and make their own. Remember having to replace burnt out tubes in your TV? I learned how to do that at a young age in the 70s

Watched the WHOLE thing, still waiting for the section about hidden costs. Unsubbed

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear that James. I try to make this channel friendly to those not familiar or are new to vinyl and the equipment. It understandably isn't for everyone. I do appreciate you watching.

Almost every thing you buy has hidden costs ...... Worst case scenario of hidden cost today and in too many is the engeagemt by signing a contract of mariage ...... Buying a tube amp is hyped by marketing , only the best tubea amps will outclass hi end solid state with the SAME pricetag , ........a realy good SINGLE OPT costs far more than a COIMPLETE Chinese tube amp ......so far for buying an illusion .......with current production tubes that will never be at the quality level of the past!!!! I am a tube freak from my early days on since more than 60 years....... About cost ..............in 1960 one of my vintage tube amps costed the price of an Oldsmobile at that time !!! So what .......quality will always be at a price out of range for most of the customers . When you buy a tube amp today ................beware , most are copies of older designs but not at the same quality level as the original. When one thing will go wrong it will be the solid state components that found the way to be inserted in tube gear ........and there are many today with CPU controled or servo controled solid state circuits in modern tube amps... A real quality tube amp you will have for a lifetime or longer ..... There are tech iques to protect tubes and extend their life time expectancy several times but those are HIDDEN from the customer ...............replacing tubes called matched pairs ( with often they are not ! ).........is a huge businness...! Another forgotten issue is that when you buy a tube amp today is to buy stock tubes for replacement for future service at the price of today and their disponibility today ..........even some spare extra pairs when one tube may go faulty in your nice matched quad of tubes ! The know how of tube amplification is gone with the last generation of skilled engineers......so is the secrets of tube manufacturers....and ecological ban of materials needed to construct them as well as the secret chemistery owned by manufactuirers like Telefunken , PHilips/muillard/Valvo , Ge , Sylvania and many other brands of the past . Bu the way ....................Solid state is often not SOLID ................who keeps an transistor amplifier for more than some decades , lets even state one decade without changing an buying a newer model.. Yes tube amps are potentialy inequaled for reproducing music but only the few better ones and some older vintage are at that level ..... I know I am preaching in the desert...........the desert filled with the new experts in audio and vinyl communities............ with endless futile discussions about audio ........ there are good amplifiers and there are less good amplifiers. What's forgotten is the coupling odf a given technology with the kind of speakers used ..... Tube amplifiers are not the technology to be used with most of modern speakers ........but the marketing pushes to the tube experience !............marring an elephant with a mouse. Anyway today most so called experts and audiophiles do NOT know what they are talking about ! ...............by that comment I do not include you upload .. Have a nice day ..........kind regards .

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for your thoughts on the subject Frank! I'm always learning and was happy to note that I follow a couple pieces of your advice already - like with replacing the stock tubes early and hanging on to them should something happen to the preferred tubes. I recently replaced the PSVanes on my Galion TS120 with KT88 Mullards (matched from a reputable dealer). Praying they last, but should something happen I always have a fallback. The other concern I have you voiced in your comment - the skill of today's engineers when it comes to tubes. It's the same dilemma with vinyl record production. Much of the knowledge was lost with the last generation.

Tubes cost me $700 each. Worth it? Maybe

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Woah - what tubes did you pick up?

Words never spoken: "These tubes sound perfect! I'll never roll another brand!" Thousands of dollars later....

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Made me laugh - that is so true. And yes - literally hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars later.

I've owned really good hifi since I was 12yrs old to me tubes sound more musical and ,clearer despite distortion measurements I've done side by side comparisons tubes for me

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

I'll never tell someone not to go SS as I enjoyed my Denon SS amp for years, but I'm with you Michael, nothing beats tubes.

I work on a lot of vintage electronics equipment and occasionally someone brings in a modern tuber amp. IMHO Just about anything modern, even the high end US-made stuff is sort of crappy. As in Someone brought in a brand new Macintosh a year ago, it had never been used and yet one of the tubes wasn't getting filament. One of the connections on the tube sockets was bent. That and the material of the tube socket was really cheap. One of the biggest issues I see with newer tube equipment is that many components are undersized for the task. I have seen so many newer amps where power resistors burn open because they were too low of a wattage to handle the load. Lastly, putting hot tubes on a PC board is a leading cause of failure. The heat causes the board to contract and expand and I have repeatedly seen boards where traces eventually lift from the surface. That is why some of the vintage amps are a little more spendy. But you can get GOOD amps if you're not a stickler for brand names or trend. I have a 1959 Motorola 3-channel amp that runs on a bunch of 6V6s and 12AX7's and a single 3DGR for the Rect. These sound absolutely amazing and are very robustly built. Yet they are $150 or less. But the BEST part of vintage amps? They can be made to run literally forever because none of their components- save for the power and output transfromers- are exotic and made out of very common off the shelf components. Secondly... tubes. There are so many people who think getting certain brands of XXX type tube makes a difference. In some cases, maybe. Some of the newer Russian tubes we can no longer get are pretty awful and I've had more than a few either go gassy or short in small length of time. But by the time the 40's rolled around they were all on nearly equal footing. So if you're getting a 12AX7 it doesn't matter. GE, RCA, Sylvania, Mullard, Telefunken. Any of those will do exactly the same job and performance. Spending more money on some XXX brand is usually just wasting money. What matters is how well said tube tests: How good is the emission and conductance.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for weighing in on all of this. I might have some questions for you at some point if you don't mind. Always eager to learn. I did purchase a quad set of Russian Mullarcx reissues and been happy so far (crossing fingers they don't experience some of what you mentioned above). If so, I can swap the PSVanes back in. In your opinion however, what would you go for when replacing KT88s? All of my preamp tubes are NOS (Mullard & Telefunken).

@setharp

11 ай бұрын

Well, I assume your amps have fuse protection so that if anything goes south the fuse will go before anything else. The Russians have been making KT88's for awhile now. They are probably ok. I have to admit I am also a volunteer at a radio museum and so I have not bought tubes in years since we must have at least 50,000 in storage. But if I had my choice I would gladly go with anything Tung-Sol. They were a very good engineering company. The name of course is still around but they are all Russian or Chinese now. But really anything vintage made by the likes of GE, RCA, Mullard or whatnot should be excellent. Another way you can maximize tube life is to lower the voltage to the amp slightly. NOS tubes were meant to operate on a 110 volt AC line. Now obviously its 120. But lowering that to 110 would extend tube life. That said, tubes in general last for a VERY long time. The Motorola amp I have in my shop is on all day, every day, and has been for over 12 years. The weird 3DG4 in it finally gave up but the other 9 tubes in the set still test excellent.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

@@setharp thank you for the feedback. The amp does have fuse protection thankfully. Good to know about the Tung-Sol tubes. I‘lol keep that in mind next time around. Also the voltage advice is great! My father in law is a master electrician and hooked up our breaker box so I’m sure he can help. If you have any more advice always thrilled to hear it. On a side note - very jealous about your volunteer job. I’m sure it might gets old over time but I am intrigued!

@setharp

11 ай бұрын

I've been addicted to this stuff for decades. Unfortunately I have a full time job but restore things for the museum. I also have a KZread channel. Many very sloppily put together videos. www.youtube.com/@misterradio5035/videos Take care

@yaniv-nos-tubes

11 ай бұрын

i agree except the last part. preamp tubes makes a lot of difference and it's totally worth it to get vintage tubes. ive upgraded more than 30 amps by now mostly with 60's mullards and ge's, i use a tube tester so i can compare tubes with the same ratings. enjoy!

I think I am much older, I am 75. I only had solid state amps like the Laboratory Reference Series Luxman. The complete set was 20.000 $ in 1977. Never had so many costs on this shit stuff, broke down each month as long as I had it. Tubes amps, most of my life I had them. Even was a main distributer for Croft Audio once, for the total Europe continent. No one forces you to roll the standard tubes. They aren't expensive also JJ, Sovtek.....But I hardly ever seen a Tube amp break down. So your story actually is BS.

@TheJoyofVinylRecords

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for weighing in Mr. Vermaas. In reading your response about the cost of the set - was I reading that right? 20K. I can't imagine what that translates to today - close to 100K? Good to hear about your experience with them not breaking down. I haven't seen it happen but I'm relatively new to the world of tubes having run SS for years. Fell in love with them though.

@cirrus1964

11 ай бұрын

Could be @@TheJoyofVinylRecords

@cirrus1964

11 ай бұрын

Right now, my main amp is the Audio Note OTO SE, I am a welcome child on my age with Audio Note England. @@TheJoyofVinylRecords

@cirrus1964

11 ай бұрын

Btw in both Holland as in the UK, there sre experts on repairing valves amps everywhere!@@TheJoyofVinylRecords