The Blood Betrayal story reminds me of Ar-Farazon and the Fall of Numenor-usurping a sibling's/cousin throne, practicing black magic, worshiping a new "dark" deity, causing the wrath of the true gods, who turn away from mankind forever.

This is my comfort video in these dark times. The Long Night is coming for our world too but your guys videos brings the light

@konstantinospetrakos2536

6 күн бұрын

Brother read One piece or Attack on Titan you will feel much better! JK

I come back to this episode multiple times a year. This is my fav topic. Really would love a show about this time period. Even if they don't call it GoT.

Oh my sweet jesus, I just discovered this channel through reddit. I've spent countless hours across ASOIAF forums and wikis, and am now stoked I have 240+ hrs to geek out on here. Awesome video, thanks!

@azizal23

7 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks, and welcome aboard!

Woo! Let's do this folks! I'll be back in a couple hours to see what excellent questions / new crackpot theories you all can bring! This one was a culmination of several months' work, so we certainly hope you enjoy it.

@MrMiguelForster

7 жыл бұрын

loved the asshai episode, and GEOTD was probably my favourite section of your essays so I'm excited af

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Right on Miguel, then you'll recognize some of these ideas, but this presentation benefits greatly from the scrutiny of Aziz and Ashaya and our collaborative refinement of these ideas. Clearfield brought the serious mojo with his maps and animations, so all in all I am very pleased with how it all came out.Basically, I felt like these ideas are too important to confine them tot he context of my mythical astronomy podcasts, so I thought bringing it to History of Westeros was a good idea... and it worked out great, I think. Let me know when you're done.

@JamesJNothingIsTooSensitive

5 жыл бұрын

If you're still around, there is one question I have. The video mentioned that GRRM himself *confirmed* that the reason the noble houses maintain their stereotypical features is due to magic. Is there a quote for this somewhere?

Shit just got real.

@adamvanderpool

7 жыл бұрын

I know. Suddenly everything just got awesome all up in youtube

I miss episodes like this. 👍

Maybe I missed it, but I think you left out an excellent piece of supporting evidence - "Edric Shadowchaser" : When you linked the names still given to kings of the Diaspora of the Dawn Empire to the various names for the long night hero my mind immediately put the story together: -Edric Shadowchaser was the last name unaccounted for by a specific group descended from the Empire -Daynes still name their children Edric -Daynes have purple eyes, sometimes silver hair, sometimes black hair, pre-date Valyria, and are of mysterious origin -Daynes have a sword, castle, and history that suggest ancient power ---Daynes are probably a lost branch of the diaspora and may also be descended from the original long night hero, or one of them if there were several / a group) Obviously you guys got to the Daynes=protovalyrian=probably-EotD-descendants thing, but I didn't hear you link them to Edric Shadowchaser! Also, the other Edric I can think of (Storm) is linked to Storm's End / Baratheons / Durrandons, also marked by you as having potential protovalyrian descent. Phenomenal video as always, full of incredible and sharp insights. This one appeared by its name to be tangential, but was at the heart of everything!

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Right on William. It was really hard to decide what to include and what not to, there is so much that relates to so many different things. But to your point, yes, I have certainly noticed that Eldric is close to Edric Dayne. There's also a Ulrick Dayne who was a SOTM, and the Starks have an Edric Snowbeard and an Elric Stark. I have been saying on my podcast for a while that I think Eldric Shadowchaser may be the Westerosi name for Azor Ahai, and also the same person as the Last Hero, or perhaps the father of the LH, etc. I tend to think the Last Hero is tied to both Starks and Daynes.

These are my absolute favorite kind of episodes from you guys! Getting into the mythical, historical, etc. I also love LmL here as always. I very much enjoy his essays. I've been hyped to see this, it didn't disappoint! Thanks and love y'all. ❤

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Very kind of you to say! Happy to provide the quality entertainment! It's a really big piece of the ASOIAF backstory puzzle, I think, and I am excited to see what we might learn in the next book. Euron might go on some shade-of-the-evening-induced rant about the Bloodstone Emperor in some TWOW chapter, we just do not know. :)

When Tyrion meet Illyrio, he notices that he has rings on his hands: onyx, opal, tiger's eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond and a green pearl. Could it simply be a large man with a larger bank account and the desire to show off, or might it fit into the larger plot? I'm thinking about Daenerys being the only character compared to amethyst. Maybe Illyrio thinks he can wear Daenerys like a ring but Aegon is different.

@alexv3357

4 жыл бұрын

Those colours keep appearing over and over again, so it's very unlikely to be a coincidence

@endgamecaliberwarframe-pc6943

3 жыл бұрын

... how bout milisandre telling arya "eyes of green, eyes of blue, eyes of..." as such the gods predating the dawn

@jovedo27

3 жыл бұрын

@@endgamecaliberwarframe-pc6943 please never mention the show again.

@samuraiski3631

2 жыл бұрын

Uuuu up with you xszxz

@erikmalm6425

Жыл бұрын

Hello hello Sarah Play Apple I have there is Emma Fälth or Albin I thought the finger at me oh hi Play playlist

This was really great! I came here from The Disputed Lands. This was recommended by her in one of her videos! Some connections I hadn't made yet, some suspicions I've had that you guys have too. I will say this though after watching your (and hers) video, the HBO show and reading the books, I firmly believe Weirwoods and the trees whose leaves make Shade of the Evening potion are cousins. Weirwood gradually petrifies into hard white stone after it dies. I suspect Shade of the Evening trees do too (The Disputed Lands), and when they petrify into hard, black stone that drinks the light, they also appear oily or maybe exude a small bit of oily-looking "sap" as they go through the petrification process. If Shade of the Evening trees were once as plentiful in Essos as Weirwoods were once in Westeros, then they would have been used for building. In the yards around the House of the Undying are groves of these trees. When Dany, Jorah and her bloodriders go there it's said how even during the day there is almost no light in the groves and the trees seem to "drink the light". Weirwood paste, Shade of the Evening potion; both these tree species are magical. Why wouldn't the Most Magical city in the world be built from magical trees? Since we don't know the exact length of the petrification process, I'm gonna hypothesize that the buildings weren't oily at first. But consider this - knowing what we know about Asshai and the Bloodstone Emperor do we really think that people who practiced dark and foul arts would care if their city was gloomy and creepy? Wouldn't that serve their purposes better? Or maybe things didn't get this creepy in Asshai until after the Bloodstone Emperor was defeated? I've rambled too long, lol, it's so wonderful finding videos and people talking about the mysteries and puzzles of ASOIAF that I love too! I hope you guys are doing really well in 2022. Have a great weekend. :))

One of my favorite ASOIAF videos!

Theres really a title: "The Keeper of the Buzz". You gotta love Westeros

Excellent (Burns' voice)

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Smithers... massage my brain.

I have been looking forward to this episode for months! I know how I'm spending Sunday morning before football!

I always think of the oily blackstone whenever I cook with a non-stick pan, Haha

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

forever changed the way I look at non-stick pans :)

This is so exciting the great empire of the dawn is one of my favorite aspects of ASOIAF lore Thank you for uploading

About 5 months ago (just checked) in the comments section of the Asshai video, I proposed the theory that what we think of as Valyria was actually founded by refugees from Asshai, most likely led by Azor Ahai or one of his family members. I am so thrilled to see the three of you delve into a similar concept to a depth that I simply could not. I absolutely loved this video.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Yes, the pieces are all there to be found, good job on spotting them. I've seen a few people put them together since I wrote my original essay last year about the dawn age dragonlords. Once you put it all together, I think it's pretty clear are pretty hard to argue against. It makes too much sense and explains too many things in satisfactory fashion. And at the center of it all - and we tried to emphasize this at the end - we need a way for the Azor Ahai story to be relevant to Westeros. We've all been looking for that since book 2. I am pretty sure this is the answer, or at least the beginning of the answer. There is still a ton of holes... basically, the War for the Dawn and the story of the Long Night. We know it probably involves dragonlords, so how does that fit into Westerosi LN history? The first NW and the LH's group of 13? That is why we are going to have the Q&A / discussion episode as a follow up, to talk about some of this stuff.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Here's a great example of a very well-written theory which makes most of the same connections as we did, from Reddit user "sangeli," definitely worth a read: www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4ti5rb/spoilers_extended_out_of_asshai_part_14/ And my original from last year on Westeros is here: asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/127025-astronomy-of-planetos-fingerprints-of-the-dawn/ And of course Elio postulated some long lost common ancestor of both Valyria and House Dayne years ago, as we noted at the end of the episode. :)

@stanklepoot

7 жыл бұрын

I'm definitely going to have to check these out. I knew there was no way in hell that I was the only person to think of something like that, but I was excited because it was the first major theory that I came up with on my own, rather than having seen or read someone else proposing it. I really didn't know where I could read up on it though. I'm a little embarrassed to say, I don't think I've ever been on Reddit. When I wrote that original comment in the other video, I was hoping for a comment saying either "nice catch", or "sorry, timeline doesn't work." I mean, I had said that the thought came to me from having watched the Asshai video a handful of times. If that was enough for me to think that, then there's no way that at least one (more likely all) of you didn't consider the same possibility while researching and putting the video together. The only way that wouldn't have happened is if you had already considered it previously, but discovered something that would have disqualified the idea. Anyway, that response never came, so imagine how thrilled I was to watch this latest video. No quick yeah or no, but an in-depth discussion from Aziz, Ashaya, and yourself that took it a hell of a lot deeper than I could have. Each one of you knows more about this world than I most likely ever will. In fact, most of my knowledge comes from History of Westeros, Radio Westeros, and (since your first team up with them) Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire (at lucifermeanslightbringer.com plug, plug) Seriously though LML, really enjoy the podcast. I might not be sure of all of the theories you throw out there, but they are all incredibly interesting and researched to an astounding level. I imagine Martin himself listening to some of them and thinking, "Wow, I wish I had been going that deep when I wrote that."

@korakys

6 жыл бұрын

After listening to this episode I'm thinking that some scholars of Asshai figured out that the Valyrians were descended from the Amethyst Empress and that that bloodline would be key to protecting the world during the next Long Night. Thus they decided to teach them how to master dragons. All of this makes me wonder who the so-called "God-on-Earth" really was. I'm starting to think his parents were actually gods in this world (or maybe aliens), which is pretty incredible.

Dany and Jon both half Dayne. Dany being the princess that was promised, Jon being Azor Ahai. The Daynes can be a House of the Dawn age, dragonlords, keeper of Lightbringer.

@joshstroven8284

4 жыл бұрын

How are either of them half Dayne.

@sophiawilson8696

3 жыл бұрын

@@joshstroven8284 in the books canon Jon Snow is the son of Ashara Dayne and Dany is a Targaryens and her great great grandfather is Aegon unlikely is son of a Dayne.

@joshstroven8284

3 жыл бұрын

@@sophiawilson8696 So Danaerys isn't "half" Dayne then, not even a quarter. And if you think that Jon isn't the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar you're delusional.

Just rewatched this today at a friends house and I have to say I never realised how desperately I need to reread Twoiaf!! Great job Ashaya and Aziz as usual. LML, I have read some of your stuff but I definitely need to check your podcast out. Thanks for the great podcast guy! As always it was a very informative and enjoyable experience 😉 I'm looking forward to more Blackfyre stuff and maybe LML could collaborate? Just saying ... Thanks again 😊

@katherinederoet4114

7 жыл бұрын

Also! LML, for some reason you remind me if Eli Roth! That's a huge compliment from me btw. Just putting that out there.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

haha, the eyebrows.

Faaaack, I'm meant to be doing last minute coursework today!

How did I not know about this channel sooner? Good stuff

This video has me picturing dragons in high viz vests and hardhats perched around a giant blue print, and a connex converted to an office for the Faceless Men HR department.

Absolutely fantastic. The more we learn about the GEOTD, the more some of the mysteries of ASOIAF begin to come together and make sense. Thanks for the tip to read Durran Durrandon's essay, that was also really enjoyable to read.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Right on, Durran's other big theory is one which compares Melisandre to the Night's King corpse queen. I think that one is a super important breakthrough. He's talking about how the corpse queen might have been to ice what Mel is to fire, and I agree.

I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS SINCE THE RELEASE OF THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE. YES YES YES YES

I cannot get enough of these videos. Thank the gods (old and new) that I still have all your old videos to accompany me on my commutes. It is very much appreciated

Hyrkoon must be a reference to Yyrkoon, the cousin of Elric of Melnibone and wielder of the sword Mournblade (the brother sword of Stormbringer). The Bloodstone Emperor betraying the Amethyst Empress even mirrors Yyrkoon betraying Elric, which led to the destruction of the captial city of Melnibone, Imrryr. Edit: I guess you knew that already. Lol.

This is AWESOME!

@MsNatiMarie

6 жыл бұрын

GrayArea thanks for the link. Watching while drinking my juice🍷 to get through the long night .

This was such a great episode. I'm inspired to create again.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Are you a writer, Don?

@donwilli

7 жыл бұрын

No I make youtube videos. I actually did one with Aziz a few months ago on my channel.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Oh right on man, I'll check you out. ;)

@donwilli

7 жыл бұрын

Greatly appreciated.

@azizal23

7 жыл бұрын

man thanks so much for saying this, that's seriously the best compliment I can imagine. Glad you're a part of the creator community.

GRRM would be so proud of you guys. This channel is quite something else I love your videos.

great analysis guys - I would like to add an extra piece of evidence to the Lannisters being descended from the GEotD and adding to the magical flaming swords theme. When Jaime has his dream on the weirwood stump & he is in the bowels of Casterley rock conversing with his ancestors, he ends up holding a pale flaming sword - some people theorise that this means he might be AA but I think it's much more to do with what you were discussing here. Also regarding the Lannisters eyes, all of the names of the gemstone emporers can be found in a green form not just Jade, but onyx, tourmaline, opal etc. too.

@HistoryofWesteros

7 жыл бұрын

Great call, and I just love the idea of "ancestor dreams" as a general concept.

This has to jump right up there in my top 3 favorite ASOIAF videos. Good job! I love the parallels you can draw here: the forces of light working stone/glass to melt it, fuse it and make weapons out of it. Not much is different in the way the forces of night seem to use ice for similar purposes.

Love all your videos, both lml and history of westeros, but I gotta say these collaborations are fantastic, definitely worth watching and rewatching! Thanks for all your hard work you guys!

Right when i start to get impatient with you guys waiting for this episode boom you deliver a 3 hour lecture on probably one of the most interesting subjects in the lore. super awesome!! btw those animated map explanations when you were talking about azor ahais different names were really cool and added a lot to the experience. Great job again👍👍

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Right on Michael, we were impatient with ourselves too - but as you can see, it's a big topic touching on a lot of different ideas with many potential side-branches to get lost it. It was definitely good to go over it with Aziz until we hammered out the best order. I am very happy with how it came out and now we have something which is accessible to everyone I think. :)

My phone's internet is so slow that I had to take breaks and watch this episode over the course of three days. Totally worth it. you guys are awesome. I can't wait to see how the story plays out and how close you get to the truth. Keep up the good work!

Eldric Shadowchaser might be the Last Hero of Westerosi legend.

The bloodstone emperor and the knights king has some interesting parallels. I think the tiger woman the bloodstone emperor married was actually an other.

Great parallel that of the Great Empire also practicing slavery. The God-on-Earth being carried in a palanquin by his hundred wives always struck me as some kind of slavery or some kind of servitude akin to salt wives.

This is the first video I've watched from you guys and I am blown away! Amazing, I appreciate all of the hard work that was put into this and can't believe you don't have more views/likes. Apparently I'm in the minority, but I thought the narrator was fantastic. Can't wait to watch the rest of your videos although it may take me until the next book releases (forever).

@HistoryofWesteros

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks Tom, welcome to the channel! (I was a big fan of MySpace!)

Terrific video! Been waiting a long time for this

Hi Aziz, just to let you know that this is my KZread handle... from Martin Lewis. Thanks for the shout, I've had plenty of welcome traffic on my Echoes of Ice and Fire page since the episode aired. I'll be putting some nice posts together over the next month, in relation to the episode, compiling artwork relative to The Great Empire of the Dawn". Now to listen to the rest of the episode...

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

That all sounds fucking fantastic man! I'll be sure to post a link to your page from my FB here sometime soon, and I'll look forward to all that. :)

Great episode guys. Can't wait for the live Q&A!

this was my first of your videos and it was amazing. thank you.

@HistoryofWesteros

7 жыл бұрын

Welcome aboard!

When you find a new channel that you like, and go on a daylong marathon and give up on the real world entirely.

@HistoryofWesteros

7 жыл бұрын

welcome aboard, it's a smooth ride but you'll have to provide your own beverages.

The keys to it all are in here ... and in the age of legends. Well done!

I can’t get over how good this episode is. Fascinating stuff

I heard - ancient squirrels at first - when you guys said scrolls. It made me happy

I wish this would be the spin off series that will start when GOT ends. this was your best video yet! loved the topic, you guys are awesome!

you guys did it.... amazing, and thanks for telling me it would be done about a month ago. you were pretty close. awesome. I have been waiting this.

I just finished the series and found ur channel wanted to say I really love what y'all do. Your portion of Dani's weird vision in the House of Undying is the best explanation I've come across and that discription in The World of Ice and Fire of the YiTi rulers pre-The Long Night matches the strangers trying to tell her of Dragons in the Vision. I really think these visions from shade of the evening is crucial to the story and I'm excited another piece of their puzzle of past future and things that never will be has come together this whole episode was a epic meld of crackpot and Lore. I look forward to the days when u revisit this topic while we are waiting for Dreams of Spring.

You guys have great content and always look forward to listening to more!

My thinking is that Azor Ahai's prophecy is the retelling of a spell casted to bring forth the end, resulting in the waking of stone dragons (volcanos). Nissa Nissa represents the romanticization of a human sacrifice and the Red Sword emphasizes the bloody deed. Euron seems to think as much........I'm also interested in the Great Empire and this is where my thoughts tend to drift all over the place: The names of the Great Emperors reference a type of mineral or gemstone. And the last emperor worshipped a mysterious black stone, which seemed to have magical properties. With this in mind I recall when Tyrion pondered why the dragonlords didn't look West where the wealth was...and I ask why they were so hell bent on mining...what were they looking for? Ahhhhhhhh

By far my favorite Westeros History's episode (alongside with the one about Euron Greyjoy). No matter if it's just speculation. It's awesome!

I kind of thought that Qarth may play into this more, with the Tourmaline Brotherhood and their association with gem stones, the appearance of the Qartheen people as also being pale, and the red waste surrounding it comparable to also being a part of the empire of the dawn similar to the desert where the Patrimony of Harkoon once ruled.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Oh man, Qarth is something I would have liked to have been able to fit in. There's a lot of cool symbolism and old magic there, and I definitely think they fancy themselves as carrying on the GEotD legacy to some extent. In fact the fake, glorified version of the Undying Dany sees right before she sees the real ones - this glorious kings and queens with gemstones in their armor and whatnot - might represent the Undying's memory of what GEotD people were like. And yes, what is the Tourmaline Brotherhood but a sect founded on the wise teachings of the famous Tourmaline Emperor? LoL, I have speculated it. The problem is that none of it can be firmly tied to anything - it's super suggestive, but doesn't really lead anywhere, except to say that a little of the GEotD culture may survive in a mutated form at Qarth. The GEotD would surely have passed through the Jade Gates from time to time, so it's eminently reasonable to speculate on some line of cultural transmission there. perhaps we will discuss that in the Q&A... you have any other thoughts about Qarth?

@lilsebastian1298

7 жыл бұрын

Nah just some basic thoughts remembering it, I haven't read in a while but was trying to remember if there were dragon bones in the dead cities in the other Qaatheen cities. Just the mysteriousness of it, with these ties interweaving seem like it could be another kind of diaspora situation from GEotD. I was also trying to recall the crown they gave Dany and what that was made of. Your right it's kind of hard to make concrete ties (and my time is sadly wanting for any further tie ins), but it seems like the lack of mention in world of ice and fire and the other coincidences may be for some reason, but hard to speculate.

Dany becomes queen, Euron betrays her and brings the long night, Jon saves the day Dany = amethyst empress Euron = bloodstone Jon = azor ahi

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah's not unreasonable speculation by any means :)

@sophiawilson8696

3 жыл бұрын

There theories that the Blood Stone Emperor and Ahor Ahi are the same person.

Wow I’ve watched this video at least 5 times since it was originally posted and I still haven’t gotten tired of it yet.

Yesssssssss! It's finally here, I confess I did lurk on your guys twitter... so there's that.

@dangerdan2592

7 жыл бұрын

Me too, and I don't even have a twitter. Lol. I was creeping the last few days.

loved seeing Martin Lewis on here

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Martin did such a great job, was a pleasure to have his talent added to the episode :)

@goodnoyz

7 жыл бұрын

Hey, thank you :o) Martin here, I really enjoyed contributing to the episode. If you want to hear more of my AGOT/ASOIAF narration, please check out my Mixcloud link... www.mixcloud.com/ASOIAF/ or my ASOIAF fan page on Facebook... facebook.com/echoesoficeandfire/

Nice discussion and theories guys. I also keep in mind that GRRM has confirmed that the purple eyes of the Daynes does not come from Valyria, so there has to have been a common culture somewhere in the history od Planetos.

Long time fan, watcher, reader and listener. I am incredible with voice recognition and I am pretty sure you guys know me by now. Love you guys. P.S. Who knew Lucifer was so handsome. Thanks again for another video.

@azizal23

7 жыл бұрын

Yes, we do recognize your name! Thanks for being a steadfast supporter, it's very motivating for us.

Aziz, Ashaya and LmL your combined knowledge and insight is a nerds dream! It amazes me how much of your time you guys talk about the books but still make it interesting & now all these years down the line. Just shows the stunning genius of GRRM that you guys can actually work full time analysing his works! ..... i do wish he’d get TWOW out though HURRY UP GEORGE 😁😁😁

I wish I hadn't discovered yall so late in the game. I feel like I'm stuck playing catch up and there's so much to catch up on!

@HistoryofWesteros

3 жыл бұрын

Welcome aboard :)

David, you are hilarious! I love LML although my brain is usually hurting by the end of his extraordinarily insightful podcasts. Love HoW !!! Keep on keeping on guys!

Maybe the lands around Asshai were once fertile (comparable to the Vale), but the introduction of Ghost Grass from Sothoryos(?) and it overtook their crop fields as an invasive species, ruining the city's ability to feed itself. So at that point, Asshai would be dependent on it's imperial holding for imports. When the "barbarians" & beast began pushing on the fringes of the empire, Asshai starves. As for the nearby Stygai, perhaps the sorcerers of Asshai unleashed their magics to prevent the invasions of their lands and it got out of control, twisting the city. That the Dothraki have fear of the Ashai'i, it may indicate they were on of the invading forces (presumably with the Jogos Nhai) that pushed into the Shadow Lands, only to be attack by sorcery.

@flyingninjamimejr

7 жыл бұрын

John Jackson I'm a firm believer in the ghost grass being toxic and an invasive species of plant but it's from sothorys or is that another theory?

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

What do you make of the fact that the description of the ghost grass and the sword Dawn are pretty much an exact match? That's the thing that always tickled my curiosity about Ghost Grass.

@davidsachs3074

4 жыл бұрын

How do you feel about gjost grass being snow, and based on a Dorthraki misunderstanding ...

An amazing episode as always! I am inspired to create more worldbuilding elements in my own world that I am creating right now!.

Guys! This totally blew my mind! Awesome work!!!

Been listening to your podcast a long time! Congrats on the success of KZread and all the other platforms your on

I love the episodes featuring LML. They're always super long

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Heh heh, thanks, and yeah, I've never been known for brevity. What's worse is that we were originally going to do one joint episode, but that material needed up taking two long episodes and part of a Dayne episode to cover.:) And of course now we have opened up a whole new can of worms which invite all kinds of wild speculation which we also didn't have time for... hence the follow up Q&A episode.

@TheInfamousThey305

7 жыл бұрын

That's a lot of work, man. I'm just glad that you guys are so dedicated and really enjoy what you do. Awesome narration btw, really had me captivated.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for saying so! This is definitely really fun material, and obviously its awesome of George to have hidden so much in the back story for us to piece together. :)

Fabulous episode! So much great information! 👍

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

Hey Lily, glad you liked it! It was a lot of hard work but it was fun of course.. I am very glad to finally have all this information available in an easily-digestible format, and HoW really made everything better. My original essay doesn't hold a candle (heh) to what we came out after a good old fashioned team effort here. The big question for me is House Stark... There's a decent chance House Stark descends from the Last Hero, right? Or maybe NK, or maybe both? That means they could have that GEotD bloodline too. It all comes together at the Last Hero, but we don't have enough info yet to Sussex out exactly what happened.

i have watched this episode 20 times the three of you r magic.... no wait your topless magic together! love all your collaborations

did a wee little bit of research. how about: the onyx emperor = proto stark the amethyst emperess = proto targ the jade emperor = proto lannister if the emperors weren't emperors but ruling families, they might as well have relatives in westeros, maybe first colonies founded by explorers that traveled and found fertile land...would explain why anyone in essos even cared about the white walkers coming to westeros, i think...argh, can't wait for that q&a!!! thx again for the great videos! you're my new television ;-)

The Long Night seems rather similar to the Bronze Age Collapse around 1177 BCE, when the great nations of the day like Egypt, Assyria, and the Mycenaeans all fell apart and contracted into illiterate and isolationist societies for about 600 years, basically until the Classical Period of revived contact and literacy. Stories of the Long Night and days before are oral stories like the tales of Homer or other great oral epics like Kalevala or the pre-literate Sanskrit stories that later formed the canon of Hindu texts, but with even more distortions due to the greater level of destruction

@sophiawilson8696

3 жыл бұрын

The Sea People destroy the bronze kingdoms.

@alexv3357

3 жыл бұрын

The collapse happened far from the sea as well. Sea People and raiders from abroad were symptoms of weakened or broken states, not the cause of that breaking

@cloverazar5315

2 жыл бұрын

@@sophiawilson8696 the question is: “who were the sea peoples?” There’s significant research to say that the Sea Peoples were in fact the remnants of civilizations local to the region which, when faced with ecological and environmental pressure, began to raid the territories. But the sea peoples weren’t enough to single-handedly cause the Bronze Age Collapse; that was a domino effect that left only Egypt alive

@sophiawilson8696

2 жыл бұрын

@@cloverazar5315 very true! Some says they are southern part of Europe.

Sensational video guys!

Wow really great discussion and analysis! Had fun listening and very enlightening! Great job guys and gal! 👍🏼😅

still my favorite episodes, starting with House Dayne...

Another import thing to note I feel is that if the map of asoiaf exists on a globe and the size of Essos is relatively limited past what we already know there could potentially have been an eastward sea rout to Essos from Westeros that was quicker than the standard westward route, making the high tower theory even more plausible.

Fantastic video, thank you so much.

If Valyriens came to Essos from the far East, maybe the Dayne ancestors headed East of East and then sailed East across a sea of unknown (Sunset Sea from Westeros POV) to the SW point of what is now Westeros.

The five forts might have been like emergency bunkers for the people to shelter in in trying times.

This video blew my mind, almost as hard as PJ's Minds of Wolves and Robins. But that does not make this video any less brilliant. Really just excellent work, clearly well and thoroughly researched. Of course that's the same as every other video, but this was on a topic I knew excitingly little about! I'm home now so time to finish it. Then probably rewatch it to really get into it, there's a lot of information in it! P.S. Would love to see everyone on Trial by Trivia!

Great video! Thank you

Guys! You can do it work like that with history of our world. Great job :)

yay a new episode!

You guys are very impressive. The knowledge of the books and the presentation is on point. You convinced me that the ancient people of the dawn came to Westeroes to fight the others. Too many facts for it not to be right. Well done

Ok this maybe a bit of a stretch but is it possible that The Ice Dragon book takes place in Dawn Age times? I know GRRM had said that book it is not linked to the ASOIAF universe though his publishers have said otherwise. Then again it would fit in quite nicely to the idea of ancient dragon riding kingdoms in and two of these were duking it out in what is now Westeros. Perhaps Adara lived in this uber ancient period and it was in her lifetime this mighty Dawn Empire fracture or even the Long Night itself. And just like Daynes and Targaryens maybe descended from these ancient dragon riders, Adara could have been a 'proto-Other' and for all we know she could be their great ancestor or something.

WOW great episode guys.

You made my day...thx.

10.000 years are in china a divine number, as in the 10.000 things of the taoists, in the forbidden city in the palace there are 9.999 rooms as i recall.

do you think that the north above the wall is connected by land to the east. our maps are wrong because no one has taken the "Columbus" voyage yet? I mention this because of the 5 forts on one side the wall holds back the white walkers. on the other side it's the 5 forts?

@FTUD734

7 жыл бұрын

maybe the old town fused black rock proves they circumnavigate the globe. it makes more sense they sailed from Ashai went east directly to old town.

Late to this episode, delighted to hear Neferion, also as a Decepticon and several Star Wars allusions. The parallels of the Five Forts and The Wall, picking up the pace and frequency of my rereads is essential. My initial readings over several years allows me to muse over the vague connections between Danerys travelling the Godsway under the gaze of the broken gods and Jon's dreams of the Crypts. 10, 000 Jedi across several billion planets, few were seen, 50 years later Luke Skywalker is fokelore. Also according to Galadriel, someone as iconic and terrifying as Sauron fades from as history becomes legend over 500 years, and legend becomes myth after that, another 2500 years. Yet ofcourse Gondor and Rohan were still aware of him, all but the Hobbit's.

These ASOIAF theory videos are easily my favorite online vice

Aziz if you're looking for a better example than the meteor that killed the dinosaurs, the Long Night might be compared to the Toba Catastrophe, an eruption of a supervolcano about 80,000 ago that may have resulted in a genetic bottleneck for humanity. The theory is controversial, but it's interesting to read. I've often been reminded of it after reading about the Long Night

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

That's a very good call Rodrigo. Meteor strikes and super-massive volcanic eruptions have a lot in common, and those are the only two things besides a nuclear winter which can cause a "Long Night" effect where so much smoke and ash is thrown up into the sky that the sun is blotted out.

@azizal23

7 жыл бұрын

I will take a look, that sounds very interesting and definitely on point!

@tommasonicolini6928

7 жыл бұрын

Since you brought up one of the physical explanations for the long night I'm going to ask my question here... if a cataclysmic event brought on the first long night could it be possible that that was what turned the awesome empire of the dawn into the shadowlands forever? And also if something like that happens again where could that be in westeros? Asking this I'm assuming that the others (created by the children of the forest) just happened to be around when the long night began and just found a suitable environment to thrive...

@maesterzen1046

7 жыл бұрын

I've also had this theory for a while. Similar to ASOIAF itself, a mythical history that parallels real history, it is some of the explanation for the Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden story to explain why its been proven recently that we all might have one single genetic father, dating back to the time of the supervolcano and the bottleneck of humanity, when humans we're so few in numbers that they could have been defined as an endangered species. In an interesting turn of fashion, Martin could be referring to it with adding his patented magical explanation twist.

@anon2427

7 жыл бұрын

Tommaso Nicolini maybe the shadowlands are like that because of a giant ash cloud from a volcano eruption? What if the doom kicked up the ash?

I was going to work on compiling all the Lovecraft references I could find...but it would appear the job has been done. Really glad they got touched on so heavily here. In that vein- the Squishers deserve mention, their description fits that of worshippers of that Frog Idol, both of which resemble the creatures from The Shadow Over Innsmouth. If this was touched on maybe I missed it, I'm listening at work and slightly distracted.

@HistoryofWesteros

7 жыл бұрын

Right on, we actually had several more references in the script but decided there were just too many and it might be off putting to bring it up so many times. We're going to bring up more of them in the Q&A, though! We didn't mention Sarnath as an HPL reference, for example. We didn't specifically mention The Shadow Over Innsmouth, but that's a great example. Similar idols are in his other stories, as you probably know... The Temple comes to mind.

@DavidLightbringer

7 жыл бұрын

What do you know about Lovecraft's Old Ones and the monster known as Yig? Because I think Martin is using those ideas in a very sneaky way...

@jeffseidl

7 жыл бұрын

As a Lovecraft fan, I just find the image of the Ironborn having been worshiping Cthulhu this entire time hilariously satisfying. Some mighty good crack.

@jeffseidl

7 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I've read a fair amount of his short stories and am familiar with his world of lore. I'll have to refresh myself on that particular being, I can't pick up where you're going with it at the moment.

Mind opening. Thank you for doing what you do.

love the videos. best channel. licifermeanslightbringer changed the way i view the legends and myth on asoiaf. i can listen to you guys for hours. i am personally running withba theory that terros/planetos is the same world that the conan saga takes place it. (albeit during a future timeline) and i believe i have geographical evidence to support this claim. the isle of Leng. i propose that in ancient times it was the plateau of Leng during the age of Conan(azor ahai?) it is now the isle of Leng due to flooding caused by any number of possible sources. the breaking of the arm of Dorne seems like a likely candidate for massive amounts of water displacement. As well as the flooding of the neck. Or possibly even the melting of large ice sheets during the thawing process that inevitably followed the long night. the world of planetos has too many direct location references to the conan saga to ignore. the isle of Leng is just one that I've been able to piece a direct relation to.

Hey maybe you should divide the video into chapters and put timestamp links in the description? That way it'd be more organized and easier to watch/digest. Just a suggestion of course, love your videos!

@HistoryofWesteros

7 жыл бұрын

I tend to agree. We release things as podcast and video, and long podcasts work better than long videos. This one was too long for video form, even I would agree with that :) I've been pondering how to handle this going forward, and I think by the time TWOW comes out, we will have made some adjustments in how we release things. We won't cut back on total content, but releasing it in smaller chunks is preferable for KZread. Thanks for the feedback, it's very helpful. :)

Just got to say again. Your intro is so badass. Kudos

Hi you two.... your videos never disappoint. Rock on,!

So much HP Lovecraft influence, I love it XD Leng, Sarnath, freaking beautiful

As always very interesting. Explains a lot.