When used in photography both have their respective strengths. Photographers mustn't forget however that they are merely guidelines used to illustrate technique to novices. Photographers will use one or another but will mostly follow their own 'eye'. Sometimes it fits in the 'rule of thirds' other times it fits in 'the golden ratio'. There is no right in any art form, regardless of what critics may say.

Did she just say "for hundreds of years the rule of thirds has been one of the most universal accepted guidelines for composing photographs"? I didn't know photography has been around that long!

@kevinrooney6348

8 жыл бұрын

+moccoyen the first photo was taken in 1826

@smb10011001

8 жыл бұрын

+Kevin Rooney She's ten years too early.

@kevinrooney6348

8 жыл бұрын

+smb10011001 please see dictionary.reference.com/browse/hundreds definition 4

@coolbionicle

7 жыл бұрын

moccoyen The real mistake here is using the word photograph when she was reffering to portraits and pictures in general.

@BodhiGeraci

7 жыл бұрын

this

My first rule of thumb is don't talk about my thumb. The second is to make sure I've taken the lense cap off

@kint5ugee

4 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣

As a numberphile I am shocked they did not say Fibonacci once.

@CreativeMovieArts

9 жыл бұрын

i think they're just trying to get away from getting too technical on their video(and therefore avoiding mentioning fibonacci), which is good, because not everyone is a numberphile like you(or, as a matter of fact, me).

@indexMemories

8 жыл бұрын

+BuickGirl1986 smh tbh fam

@omniaorbis

5 жыл бұрын

shes just taking credit for something that already was created and had a name, thats all i can see

@statelypavinglandscaping1426

5 жыл бұрын

Why would they? the ratio is found in many number sets, Fibonacci is not unique, Lucas and Binet formulas as well...

@1dan1609

5 жыл бұрын

Me too, in fact, I learned about Fibonacci before golden ratio. I even knew about the diagram but didn't know about the golden ratio

'now it's time to thank our sponsor...' *Close tab*

@instorymode

9 жыл бұрын

Whole video was an ad for the sponsor. There's no reason for DNews to talk about this.

@VintageLJ

9 жыл бұрын

Story Mode i thought it was pretty interesting. Also, who's forcing you to watch the video?

@RayDrouillard

9 жыл бұрын

Who do you think buys the equipment and pays the actors and crew? If you're going to make a video about photography, it's logical to end it with an ad that is related to the subject. Would you rather it be ended with an ad about Nascar or tampons or something like that?

@instorymode

9 жыл бұрын

VintageLJ I think it's interesting too and I also think it's a good ad if anything. You get to know a little about photography composition. Why so defensive? Who said i was forced to watch it? Who said I disagree with this? Or why think I don't agree with them being paid for their job?

@ShadeSlayer1911

9 жыл бұрын

Ad-hating hipster. Large youtube channels can only exist because of ads. Most free internet services can only exist because of ads. Do you expect things for free? Just be glad you don't have to pay for these things directly by paying for a youtube account.

"Thank you, Gyro"

Remember! These are NOT rules, they are GUIDES!

@AllHailTheKang

3 жыл бұрын

Unless you have a project you need to do, and they require you to use the rule of thirds

Message to everybody watching; fuck the rules, photography or film don't have any rules. Using these grids may be helpful but making use of this doesn't grant you a nice picture.

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

Yes it does :p

@TJDrumsRHCP

9 жыл бұрын

James Oldfield You think making use of the grid will get you a nice picture?

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

TheTwicey Did you even see that emoticon? -_-

@TJDrumsRHCP

9 жыл бұрын

James Oldfield Ofcourse I did, but it could have been a sign u used to show that you were respectfully disagreeing which is possible.

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

TheTwicey Nope

will look some porn pics to see if i can detect what method they used.

@exmo7

9 жыл бұрын

yo

@dahrrg

9 жыл бұрын

Dyexmax That's a terrifying image...

I'm so glad I stumbled upon this video, I love Tara and lost sight of her since destructoid. It made my day!

I don't mean to sound rude, but honestly, if you can't compose an aesthetically pleasing photograph without having to compare it to some grid to see if it matches, photography may not be for you.

@geonerd

9 жыл бұрын

The voice of sanity - thank you! If composition and 'art' was as simple as blindly placing the bird on a tic-tac-toe board or 'magic spiral,' we'd all be masters. Every image must find a balance of light and dark, textured and smooth, of contrasting or complimenting colors, etc. This necessary balance will never be achieved by blindly following some dumbed-down 'rule.' LOOK through the viewfinder and move the camera and subjects around until you find aesthetic appeal in the image. Push the shutter. IMO, if ROT ever enters your conscious thought process, 'You're doing it wrong!' ;)

@rouchlcw

5 жыл бұрын

Noel Kerns these guides are helpful for people who just started tho lol snob much?

Fantastic explanation! Just got into photography and I must say that yours was the clearest most comprehensive explanation of this doctrine or guideline of photography. Thank you, I have subscribed and liked!

She reminds me of Laura Prepon.

Thanks that was an incredibly useful and helpful video, great upload.

Now I know what those grids were for! 😭

@hacker-7214

9 жыл бұрын

lol me too😂

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

iXbeXy I still don't ;__;

@SatanistSin

9 жыл бұрын

James Oldfield lol. It's simple. Line up the thing you're taking a picture of (the subject) so that it touches two intersecting points on the grid. If your background isn't complete crap, the picture will look a million times better than if you just centered the subject. Also focusing the lens to blur out everything but the subject helps too.

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

SatanistSin Thirdsing it ups easy but finboancaiiing it isn't

@SatanistSin

9 жыл бұрын

James Oldfield you line the subject up with the smallest spiral. It ends up being just about the same thing though.

Clear, educative. Good job.

informative, clear, simple. great video~gj~

So the Golden Ratio is basically Fibonacci's Sequence?

@dennisdavis6943

9 жыл бұрын

yep, if you divide any number in the Fibonacci Sequence by the number before it, it will be close to the golden ratio (phi). and the further along you are in the sequence the closer the ratio will actually be to phi.

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

Dennis Davis Any sequence that follows those set of rules will encroach on Phi, not just the Fibonacci Sequence. The Fibonacci Sequence is only special insofar as it is the first sequence in an uncountable infinite number of sequences.

@JNCressey

9 жыл бұрын

James Oldfield the terms don't need to be integers. For example consider the Fibonacci sequence divided by 2: 0.5, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2.5, 4... Still tends to the same ratio.

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

JNCressey Oh. Well scratch that then. It's uncountably infinite. It is literally a Fibonacci sequence of unspecialness... :/

Okay, so how many of us came from Steel Ball Run?

@trinaruto7231

8 жыл бұрын

XD

@hefdef9961

7 жыл бұрын

Nyo-ho

@georgeruiz9211

4 жыл бұрын

Dogya--------n

Thanks for such information, I like both rules.

Where did you get your glasses? I love them!

Never knew these! Thanx :)

Thank you DNews. I knew what the rule of thirds was but had never heard of the golden ratio.

nice vid. I was curious about the math, but the photography angle is really fun

So which one is better for taking a selfie?

I thought the thing that makes a photo to look good are: 1. Optics arrangement 2. Sensor size 3. Back Side Illumination 4. Image Signal Processor 5. Aperture and Exposure 6. Stability of the lens (either by digital or OIS)

@SonYonatan

9 жыл бұрын

Their not talking about image quality. Its about what your eye looks at first. Like if you saw a picture arrange in a spiral your eyes would go around and straight into the center of what ever photo your looking at or drawing or advertisement. The rule of thirds you can see on a grid. The golden rule is in nature you can see it plants animals, whirlpools.

@SonYonatan

9 жыл бұрын

Johnathan Chambers *They're

@leif-axelberg6242

9 жыл бұрын

Oh no, are you one of those digital photographers?

@RayDrouillard

9 жыл бұрын

The optics and sensors and all that stuff are criteria for choosing a camera. We're not discussing that. We're talking about technique. After all, you can give a Leica to a hack, and he'll take snapshots. You can give a cell phone to an accomplished photographer, and he'll take high quality photos. So don't put a lousy driver in your Corvette.

@SatanistSin

9 жыл бұрын

That's what makes a camera better than others. But you still need a good photographer to shoot good pictures.

I learned somthing today. Thanks DNews!

Never used the Fibonacci sequence in photography, but I do use it all the time in furniture making and timber craft, it gives a better aesthetic and aids in functionality when one required dimension is used determine other nonspecific dimensions.

Great explanation

Thank you based DNews for placing commercial on end of video.

Very interesting...and I think I just fell in love.

Both are useful in different ways. Using rule of thirds is a guideline as is the spiral. The thirds rule is great when you are taking normal shots that are made to highlight the whole frame. Great for general portraits. I have used the spiral when it applies to curved lines and wanting to draw attention in a direction across a photo. For instance shots to show human form (nude, ballet, martial arts etc.) tend to look more pleasing to the human eye using the spiral. That being said these rules are a guide to start from. Composing a shot depends on many more factors than just a ratio or two.

im taking a photography class right now and all that matters is getting the subjects framed properly with without any distractions. strictly adhering to rules of alignment is too orthodox and might just obscure the potential of a shot

You limit yourself too much. The golden ratio is also used in designing aquarium aquascapes, gardens, landscapes and art.

1:47 how is b/a=1.618... when a is bigger than b ?

@H0A0B123

9 жыл бұрын

and (a+b)/b actually = 1+a/b and doesn't = b/a nor 1.618... ,they switched a and b ... fail

@wizewaze

6 жыл бұрын

As she said in the video... A = total length of the line - a point on the line separates the line into 2 segments - B = 1 segment of the line A - C = other segment of the line - so neither B or C can ever be longer (or bigger) than A as they are defined as a segment of A

Please do one video about the triple point!

Nicely covered

Where can I get a Golden Ration grid for my camera?

This felt like a nice introduction to the concepts, but just as things were getting interesting, the video ends!?!

I read an article not to long ago about how Nintendo seems to use the Golden Ratio on many of their more recent box arts on the WiiU. It's crazy how much of this stuff can go unnoticed until you learn about it, then it seems to be everywhere you look.

That's the first time I've heard "eschew" used in a youtube. Bravo!

Thanks very helpful.

The rule I use for taking photos... I position the camera until what I see in the screen looks good.

Does this apply to selfies too?

There's a great amount of hearsay knowledge thrown in as actual knowledge in this video.

During my first (foundation) year of art school five years ago, the golden ratio was talked about in 2D design class--but not taught well, and I still struggle to understand it beyond the fact that I know that it's found in nature a lot (nautilus shells being a really good example) and works like the Vitruvian Man (also: the math that Tara talked about went WAAAAYYYY over my head--however, it's me, not her). Once I started my diploma in photography, however, the golden ratio was never mentioned--but the rule of thirds, which I immediately understood, was. So for me (I'm only speaking for myself on this subject), while the examples that DNews uses for the golden ratio are just as nice compositionally as the images used to demonstrate the rule of thirds, the rule of thirds is better simply because I understand it--and I've been able to get a lot of beautiful images while using it.

Since both methods operate sub-consciously, how can we accurately say one is better than the other? Quantifying internal feelings/opinions has been a major issue in science for centuries, and no method has been able to accurately quantify a feeling without the quantities becoming relative to the person being examined.

Super interesting

Naturally it depends on many factors. But if i had to give some general rule about the two, id say that golden ratio when you want some detail to be composed so that it gets attention and rule of thirds when you want to separate different segments of an image.

I'd never really paid any attention to either. I just took photos in a way that I thought looked visually appealing. Then, one of my friends who is a professional photographer (I'm just a hobbyist), asked if I used the Golden Ratio to compose my photos, because it looked like I was. When I told him I had no idea, he thought it might be fun to see if my photos fit in the Golden Ratio. Surprisingly, most of my photos fit in the ratio really well; not all, but most.

Really good explanation, good video ... just not sure who your sponsor is ;)

The golden ratio is found in almost everything. classical art, and architecture have used it as a rule of thumb for quite some time. It's even used to properly proportion bodies and faces. It's so ingrained in the psyche that when someone or thing doesn't approximate it, we tend to think he/she/it is ugly or unrealistic.

since we have technology that can track the eyes it would be interesting to know where people who aren't exposed to pictures much loo when showed different pictures, seems like that would be the ultimate test of where to put subjects

Since my cameras have a rule of thirds grid, I use that as a general guideline. I kind of mentally take a step back and look at the whole photo to see how it looks. Since the advent of high quality digital cameras, I have started taking several pictures with different compositions so that I can study them later, then choose and crop as needed. It's interesting to note that the Gimp (free and open source image editor) offers both a rule of thirds and golden ratio grid. The two are actually quite similar. I suppose you could choose one and precisely put the point of interest at one of the four intersections. For that matter, a computer would be quite adept at doing the same thing. But it is art more than science. The best thing to do is to use whatever rule you like to get things approximately where they should be, then use your artistic eye to shoot that perfect photo.

thank you.. love you..

Isn't that just Fibonacci's sequence? Why give it a whole new name?

@javiere.gonzalez1021

9 жыл бұрын

A sequence and a number are different

@fy-

9 жыл бұрын

Not just Fibonacci sequence can make Phi, there are infinite other sequences that can make that too.

@Sakura11101

9 жыл бұрын

I was referring specifically to the title "the golden ratio". I've never heard that title before, as I have only been familiar with phi and fibonacci's sequence as the names.

@Donaam

9 жыл бұрын

The ratios between each number in the fibonacci sequence converge to phi but are never actually equal to phi.

@LucasSpurrell

9 жыл бұрын

Well, the Fibonacci sequence is the name given to s specific sequence that approaches the golden ratio. 1,1,2,3,5,8, etc. It's the one that starts with two 1's. But really you can start a sequence with any two numbers and follow the same rule and get closer to the golden ratio. 4,16,20,36,56,92 or 9,200,209,409,618,1027. So the Fibonacci sequence is just one of the sequences that follows the golden ratio. It's just famous because of how neat and small it is. It's the smallest sequence using whole numbers.

I adopted these styles by myself before I even knew about them. This is not boasting, I'm pointing out that nature will just take it's course... I naturally preferred to take pictures using those ratios, because they just looked better to me! Wow.. now I know about this, I can't stop trying too hard now and my pics never feel as natural as they did before I knew about this.

How do I apply the golden ratio while I take pics?

@inefekt

9 жыл бұрын

Take out your calculator, apply it to your hand held Golden Rule guide and then................oh wait, it's too late you've missed the moment.

@ImaGhostSoul

9 жыл бұрын

Okay? I don't care for any rude people.

@ScionStorm1

9 жыл бұрын

ImaGhostSE It doesn't have to be exact, especially not immediately as you take the picture with a digital camera. As long as you have a general idea of where things might line up your good for that. For more accuracy, try cropping the photo-later- after you have taken the shot.

@OkayHosein

7 жыл бұрын

Some good cameras actually have indicators within the viewfinder which align with the golden ratio instead of the rule-of-thirds. Pentax, for instance. The K-3 indicators for the AF points indicate the Golden Ratio within a golden rectangle [not the 1:1.5 frame]. The SF1/SFx has the width of the focus indicator LEDs at the bottom of the frame be the same as the width of the lines within a golden rectangle also. (Not sure about the side indicators). Other cameras may have something similar.

The Golden Section rule says that you allign a center of interest on a golden section proportion of Height or Width. Your first picture of the Blonde Girl showing the thirds grid ACTUALLY lines her eyes ( the center of interest) on the Golden Section proportion. .618 .382

love this

This gives a good set of examples of how the Golden Ratio or Golden Mean creates aesthetics.

I took two semesters of photography and never knew it was called The Rule of Thirds.

The Golden Ratio seems to be something deeply ingrained in our existence. We see it in nature and even the cosmos, and our brains find it pleasing when we see something that follows the ratio. Interesting huh?

The thing I find interesting about the Golden Spiral is that at every step the line looses some of it's curve. This can be carried out to infinity and the line will NEVER be strait.

Crop large raw shots. Get both out of one photo. And what if I lined up my pictures in between the intersecting points from both grids? Does it create super tension?

@oBCHANo

9 жыл бұрын

Why would you want to crop and lose resolution?

@Henchman_Holding_Wrench

9 жыл бұрын

oBLACKIECHANoo I don't really need a full 8 megapixel photo for anything. Even when I do crop, it doesn't take much to change between those 2 grids.

you just took a universal algorithm that is at the basis of the function and design of our universe and turned into a photography commercial

It's not just for photography. For goodness sakes, it's for all forms are art - traditional drawings and paintings, digital drawings and paintings, sculpture, it can even be used in landscaping a garden.

1:13 "Somewhere in the middle of that line there is a point separating it into two segments of different lengths".

So you mention a Canon product by name but you don't have a link to it anywhere in the video nor the description. Smooth.

I didn't even know about this but I have been doing it.

When taking a photo, one thing I tend to do is prevent overfocus on one aspect of an image. Take a picture of a face? Make sure there's a neck attached to it as well nd shoulders nearby; don't neglect what's holding the head up. Foot fetish? I want to see the person's face as well so I'll know who's stuff it is. Same thing with cleavage; boobs aren't anything if they have no personality behind them. The subject of an image needs something to compare to, to bring contrast, disparity. It becomes harder to appreciate, or notice, the object of interest if there is nothing else to compare. It is hard to appreciate the brightness of a candle if it has no darkness to combat.

I always use the rule of thirds. I'm gonna start using the golden ratio too. Thank you.

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

Not even if a man pointed a gun at your head? :/

@archit4289

2 жыл бұрын

golden ratio looks hard and time consuming

lol, there is a picture with the main subject (milky way) centered in a picture behind Tara

As a photographer, know both (and all other "rules") but when taking pictures feel free to break the rules. The rules are just some sure ways to make a picture more interesting an pleasing to the eye, but if you find any other composition that works, go for it.

Hey DNews, here's a question: Which comes first, the sponsor, or the video topic?

Your Head and Elbows, (medium shot) is composed well. It does not put a frame line at a natural joint. The head and elbows cuts at the navel, ( which is the middle of the abdominal part of the body) ie Just under the elbows of the folded arms.

So which grid should I put my finger in?

i miss her!! where is she?

Odd. Apparently I have subconsciously been favoring Golden Ratio photography for the composition of most my pics. I do find that having the main subject of your photo to be smack up and center of your picture makes the photo bland, obvious, and too boring. Golden Ratio adds fluidity to the pic and naturally seems to guide your eyes where you want the main focus to go, and finding that composition while taking g a picture actually makes photography much more fun for me. 😺

@paag.7308

6 жыл бұрын

So you used the golden ratio to set your subject or did u just eyeball it.

I object to the concept of this video. Having a commercial in the beginning, forming a content related to or created by the sponsor and finally a commercial in the end.

I take photos with a nikon and develop/print on canon *#Anarchy*

@eIucidate

9 жыл бұрын

Maybe that's why the ad was for a Canon printer and not camera :)

I'm surprised I've never heard of either of these techniques.

When you begin to argue what grid is better, then you clearly missed the point. In the end it comes down to: Be aware that centered objects may look (intentionally) stiff. Be aware that objects at the borders tend to be not obvious to the viewers(, when not supported by other composition tricks like spirals).

This is the first time I've heard of the Golden Ratio. I've alway use the Rule of Thirds. My iPhone uses thirds when I edit.

I didn't know there was a whole formula or term to all this, I just found that a particular layout is more visually appealing, but I could never explain why, but most pictures I've taken oddly fit in to this golden rule. I've never gotten technical with it, I just went by gut feel, and people seemed to like it **shrug**

i was so confused on this even being told all of this im still confused

thank you

So its the Fibonacci sequence?

Actually it seems that the girls eyes follows the rot instead of tgr? but thanks for a good video

Watching strange mystery's episode on the golden ratio made like no sense to me as there was no true explanation of what the ratio had to do with all the pictures shown, but in the short 1:45 of this video I learned that which strange mysteries had me confuse.

MY guidelines? "Is it in the frame?" and "Is there enough light?" and ""Is it in focus?" But I'm known for being an indifferent photographer.

@jamez6398

9 жыл бұрын

Clearly not an artist. More of a natural photographer.

@ScionStorm1

9 жыл бұрын

James Oldfield Natural photographer? A little lofty in the title. More like "casual pic-snapper".

I didn't actually know what those gridlines were but thats cool but they seem overcomplicated

It takes million light years for me to understand

Nice set of golden ratios

Try both, then keep the one that looks better. In the world of digital cameras you can afford to do that. It's not like you're wasting any film :)

@djgamer5546

9 жыл бұрын

That's a pretty good point, although it may not apply as well if you're photographing an animal, sporting event, weather or similar thing where timing is crucial and you may not get the same opportunity twice.

@ThePhonk

9 жыл бұрын

As long you know what you're doing it's fine to try different techniques. It's great that you can do this but its also the downside of digital cameras: It's so easy to not think about your photo at all because you might not value the cost and effort in taking pictures.

@ShadowDrakken

9 жыл бұрын

Being a newbie to photography, I'm still in the phase of thinking about every shot, wondering how to make it better and if I'm following the "rules" correctly (knowing full well that they're guidelines, not rules ;) ) But I also never intend to go pro with my work either, I will always be a newbie because it's just a hobby for me, and not one I dedicate much time or investment into.

@RayDrouillard

9 жыл бұрын

***** If you're a newbie, the best thing to do is take lots and lots of pictures. Since some cameras have sound recorders for the purpose of taking notes, you might want to make use of it -- uttering your thoughts as you snap each frame.

@ScionStorm1

9 жыл бұрын

Ray Drouillard Sound recorders... I wonder if Peter Parker knows about that. Imagine Spider-Man getting the entire audio track to a fight with the Green Goblin in addition to photos for the Daily Bugle newspaper.

Am I the only one that said what the fuck when she said this 0:49? Really? For hundreds of years? The first photography was taken in 1826, that is 188 years ago, not hundreds of years. WTF?! Why is anyone noticing this?!

@homiegisalive

9 жыл бұрын

Well it kinda works since 188 is more than one hundred and part of the second. But who is to say the rule of thirds wasn't a theory before photos?

@zehmeester

9 жыл бұрын

Perhaps painters used it for portraits?

@LucasSpurrell

9 жыл бұрын

Artists have used it as well. Her mistake was saying "Photographs" not "Hundreds"

@TheGoodContent37

9 жыл бұрын

Moose Frenzy Yes, of course it may have been used from before but saying for composing photographs?! I'm a photographer and I can tell you that's a lie.

@eIucidate

9 жыл бұрын

I noticed it and I thought the same as zehmeester and Lucas Spurrell

It really depends on the nature of the composition. It's silly to think that there's ever a single supreme method that will work equally well in all scenarios.

Photograghs have only been around for 174 years. The rule of thirds was use in painting though for hundreds of years.

Holy crap I can't look at pictures the same way anymore!

I sorry a picture is a fucking picture to me. I could care less about there the center point on an object's focus could be.

@oBCHANo

9 жыл бұрын

That's because you're a moron.

@Benth3rdoneth4t

9 жыл бұрын

as a person that is getting a degree in computer graphics and design, this comment was very painful to read.

@Siberius-

9 жыл бұрын

Couldn't* care less.. I'm not trying to be a grammar nazi, that's just the one that hits the nerve lol, I have even seen shirts say "could". When the whole idea is that they couldn't.. care less.

@ilovesparky13

9 жыл бұрын

Gilbert Flowerface just get over it. some people say "could" and others say "couldn't."

@ilovesparky13

9 жыл бұрын

damn, I'm surprised by all the hate you're getting.