These videos are criminally under-viewed.

@12braunsonsummers

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Share on your social media accounts.

@hpvegan1625

4 жыл бұрын

People prefer emotionally charged slogans to meaningful dialogue when it comes to complex issues of course. The good thing is I think.. bc this primarily a podcast, many more people digest the conversation than would be suggested by the view count on KZread.

@simonsays525

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@simonsays525

4 жыл бұрын

Braunson Summers that’s a quick way to lose your job and all your friends which is an unfortunate truth for many people.

@gavnat9991

4 жыл бұрын

I have heard white people have this conversation and been screamed at and called all manor of disparaging names for their trouble. Tons of views. Two educated black men having this conversation does not fit the current popular narrative.

Glenn: "I'm trying to stay in touch with reality, this is first order problem . . . " Thanks for asking the questions that no body else is allowed to ask. Keep it coming

Love to listen to ya'll talk. I feel my I.Q. rising just thinking about watching your videos.

Thank you for having this discussion. I helped me see the current racial issues from another perspective.

These two guys are amazing, the pressure they must be under to just dance and perform as opposed to speak the truth as they see it must be severe.

Brilliant minds, McWhorter's and Loury's. Stay strong, gentlemen.

wow, this is an absolute tonic. i sincerely hope this reaches more people. bravo gentlemen.

Tony Timpa is probably the most comparable to George Floyd.

@kenwilliamsvoice

4 жыл бұрын

Yes! Was gonna post same name.

@neildunford241

4 жыл бұрын

Yep - I'd never heard of his death, till I heard Coleman Hughes talking about it.

Wow! These guys are great!! The entire world needs to think this way, you’d assume because they’re professors, their students would follow their example🇺🇸

As I'm watching this in the corner, feeling like Winston - wondering when the thought police will descend on me.

@peterhardie4151

4 жыл бұрын

I am wondering if I am an irredeemable racist... hahahaha

@umiluv

4 жыл бұрын

Peter Hardie - hahaha your comment made me laugh. Thank you. Hope you are staying safe.

We need more of these honest dialogues. So interesting, eye-opening and informative. Thank you, sirs.

What a refreshing conversation to listen to, please do it again soon 👍

Glenn is getting more and more impatient and raw. Directly reflects the urgency of these matters.

Glen one of the most lucid speakers I've ever heard.

Thank you for this fascinating and enjoyable discussion. I went on the net searching for conservative black voices to get some perspective on the current BLM unrest. I am a middle aged (maybe older - when does it end) white female Briton. Working class background but had the advantage of an excellent free grammar school education (which our Labour party has ensured did not endure for future generations). Worked in the City and made some money. Worked in HK so have some Chinese friends and know some great brown people but have no black friends. My only "black" exposure is to children in schools where I am a volunteer maths and English tutor. Only sorry I could not find any black Britons of similar leanings although with Kemi Badenoch and some other black conservative politicians who don't seem to see everything through the prism of race (which I think all of our black Labour politicians do) that may be changing. Loved Mr Loury and will have to look for some more of his videos.

@ccali327

4 жыл бұрын

Make no mistake though, putting a liberal or conservative label on this discussion is highly problematic. These men are as centrist as can be.

Please talk some sense in to my professors, this conversation is amazing. Subscribed to your channel.

@BlessedFigTree

4 жыл бұрын

I love Glenn's laugh. XD

As a white male who aims for the middle of the aisle, I want to say as objectively as I can that we should be grateful for these two, because it is generous of them to do what they can to be objective about such a heavy topic with such an emotional history. In return, we need to be careful not to take their words and assume they support our perspective, but rather we should be very careful not to misrepresent them, and to support their efforts for what they are, and to avoid steering or twisting anything to match a certain agenda. We should return the favor and be as objective and introspective as we can. Because how else do we save democracy? That's where democracy thrives when people are honest and thoughtful and introspective, because that's governing yourself. The more you govern yourself the more you don't need a big powerful government to control your thoughts or behaviors. This is the contribution of their honesty and objectivity... It is a building block of freedom that benefits us all. Plus, they're right... they make sense. I can't help but agree with them.

way to fight back against blanket economic reductionism - its a huge turnoff for a lot of progressives that black culture is above reproach and cannot be discussed as problematic in any way.

@ccali327

4 жыл бұрын

think of how ridiculous that notion is, and how stupid, for lack of a better word, it is for "intellectuals" to buy into the idea that ANY community is above reproach. But it is so prevalent and pervasive in public discussion.

The other officers were only on the job a few days before this happened. Thomas Lane was literally on his fourth shift and J. Alexander Kueng was on his third as officers in the field when George Floyd died. Derek Chauvin was their training officer. I can at least understand why they wouldn't be so willing to step in to override their training officer's poor judgement. Chavin had no business being a cop, let alone being a training officer, given his record.

@Neloch4

4 жыл бұрын

it's interesting 'cause he had a record of using too much force too, i dont know if it's before becoming a training officer but i wouldn't be surprised if it came after his complaints.

@matthewharvey3556

4 жыл бұрын

And Lane repeatedly questioned Chauvin as to whether they should get off him and roll him over.

@MrUberGolfer

4 жыл бұрын

Interesting facts. Given that Chauvin had double digits complains on him, how on earth was he a training officer? Do we know about the previous complaints if they were racial or non-racial (violence, etc). And how they were racially distributed?

@matthewbrown8679

Жыл бұрын

I agree about Lane. But it was likely Kueng's knee in Floyd's back, rather than Chauvin's knee on the back of Floyd's neck that did Floyd in.

Living in fear is not a joyful way of life. Crime is the reason this situation needs to be addressed truthfully.

To know that there is still reasonable discourse in Ivy League gives me much needed calm in these frightening times

@frankvazquez5974

4 жыл бұрын

I would call doubting the outcome of George Floyd's arrest would be different if he were a white man to be a terribly unreasonable argument to start off with. He goes on to say " I'm not aware of examples of things happening to white men like Floyd and others".....say no more. Show me a white man that gets murdered for a supposed fake $20 bill and then we might have a conversation here. Seriously, until you can show me a decent amount of examples of white men getting lynched,preferably statistics - none of which are given here, this is little better than Ivy league mental masturbating click bait to me. Then you have the issues of what is correctly reported, if it is at all. McWhorter starts talking about black people getting a "Chip on their shoulder" against police after the civil rights movement which was EXPLICITLY targeted by FBI groups like COINTELPRO in conjunction with the cops along with other minority groups....how can he miss all this? Full disclosure : I had to stop listening at 20 minutes since I have better things to do .

@jonathandrake8640

4 жыл бұрын

@@frankvazquez5974 Glen Show an Echo chamber free zone. Bye

@jackyeadon9979

4 жыл бұрын

He had shown many examples when the orginal blm movement happend

@negaosafado

4 жыл бұрын

@@frankvazquez5974 For me it is simple. The statics that is relevant in this discussion is to me the following: How many white men get murdered because of their skin color by black cops?

@bigcheese9096

4 жыл бұрын

@@frankvazquez5974 Daniel shaver for starters, look that one up.

These chats are so entertaining and funny. Keep it up 👍🏾

Thank you both so much for exhibiting freedom of thought! You risk youth your lives and jobs to present an in depth view of complex issues with many confounding g variables rarely discussed. Listening to your show is the highlight of my day. My vocabulary and diction have also grown since I’ve started listening:) It Is a true gift to listen to your prose. Please don’t ever stop your show. I’m hoping liberals will join with conservatives to stop the destruction of the far left. Do you think Trump is a better speed bump to the far left movement?

So glad I found this video. Great conversation.

This is the other side of the coin that is not being shown. I wish/hope my people find them. These are the talks that we REALLY need. Scared that their voice is lost in the sea of today's media. Glad I found them.

Appalachia has vast areas of some of the poorest people in America, yet their incidence of violent crime isn't completely out of line with the national average. So much for the "poverty == crime" univariate causality. And as Jordan Peterson points out, the disenfranchisement and resentment and anger and instability arise from the perceived disparities in prosperity and opportunity, not poverty in and of itself.

I'm gonna listen now. I'm hoping qualified immunity was discussed. Its the most import issue that needs to be abolished to protect citizens and hold cops accountable

@ccali327

4 жыл бұрын

@@adamchapnik2537 That makes a lot of sense, because it seems like it's a much deeper systemic issue than qualified immunity (from training, to the relationship with DA's offices, unions ultra-protection for any of its workers, policies that have literally no real disciplinary "teeth").

And the rich people who commit serious huge crimes are exempt from this example because they aren't poor? That argument that crime is a poverty issue can be dismantled. I'm poor and I'm not committing crimes. But my wealthy white Black-faced prime minister has committed numerous crimes. Violations of laws, abuse of power. Caught in corruption scandals. But he's wealthy. ... It's maybe 90% a moral issue and 10% desperation. Situational.

Ah, Glenn, the moralist! :D It is fun to see him get mildly riled up, because moralism makes sense to him, but I agree with McWhorter on about every point regarding personal character vs moralism. Morality is a shorthand for a system of "emotional health" that's as complex as any other system of our physical health...which historically has been referred to as codes, "writing on stone tablets", as if people have pre-meditated stances on issues that determines their behavior. Yes, self-image and how it pertains to in-group identity...all of that plays a part. Yes, hurting others is "wrong" in a shorthand view, but it is really reflective of emotional un-wellness. Yes, it is incorrect to justify it instead of punish it, but change is brought about by understanding and sympathy, in addition to a system of predictable, but fair, consequences.

I'm confused: this is the same video that Glen released on Blogging heads a few days ago.

Despite the relatively few views, there are people in this country who understand the importance of what you're doing and greatly appreciate it. As best as an atheist can say, "you're doing god's work."

I see these two, I click “Like”.

John 2:00 I will buy your book. 🙌

I'd love to see Adolph Reed, Jr. on the call with these men. That would be a great convo

Interesting/enlightening conversation. Dr. Loury, de-personalize your home - and your will sell it. When I looked at homes and saw photos of people, no matter the race, it was a turn off for me. I sold my townhouse in a white neighborhood, but no-one knew my race. No photos, object d'art, nothing to indicate who I was. Just a beautiful townhouse in a desirable (for some) neighborhood. Anyway, this is a great discussion. Thanks and I subscribed.

Great discussion!

I agree based on murder rate in black communities that police are not the main threat to those communities. BUT can we not agree that police reform would reduce police killings, and that would be a good thing?

After more than 1/2 way thru I comment that this was a wonderfully balanced conversation that is a model for us all, no matter issue.

Does your environment and interactions determine your perspective? And does your perspective determine your actions?

Really interesting listening, thanks for sharing your insight. This video has far too few views. More thoughtful and open discussion is needed on this topic if we are to continue to make progress towards the goal of a colourblind world.

@michelledunne1040

4 жыл бұрын

Is color -blindness really the goal?

Refreshingly honest. We need to hear more of these voices. This was a reasoned discussion of the issues, without the predictable hair-on-fire hyperbole. I am greatly encouraged that 2 Ivy League professors could debate these issues without the usual appeal to leftist religious dogma.

"The truth hardly matters" - nailed it Glenn. That describes what's been happening, and has been getting progressively less important to society - in recent years.

Is this a new show or Friday's show re-edited?

@matthewsinclair507

4 жыл бұрын

I think this has been released previously on another channel

Tony timpa would of been extremely simular cops covered it up

Great discussion guys.

If people are actively looking for racism, they will find it. in some cases, (if they were honest), they could find it in the mirror.

35:54 - 36:22, WOW. That was truth spoken with PASSION. Jon Stewart of intellectuals!

You guys are great

On the question of morality. Isnt that a 2 way street? Being moral when your situation could have been brought about by an immoral society is a sticky question. And who are the moral arbiters?

GO JOHN - WRITE THE BOOK!

An excellent conversation. This deserves to be seen far and wide

Great points, I believe that music may play a role in what you discussed. I would have liked to hear your opinions.

@haiderkhan8028

4 жыл бұрын

Music has always played a positive role in the movements of the oppressed and their quest for justice.Witness the spirituals and the music of the 1960s.

Greąt conversation, thank you. Burning and looting - always wrong. You can't use bad means to reach good goals. You have to use morally acceptable means at every stage. We can understand why some people will do it but we can't say it's ok.

Can we compare to the crime rate in Appolachia where they are also very poor ??

@austingoyne3039

4 жыл бұрын

There are big differences there. Geography, population density, no history of influx of drugs and weapons into their community as happened in black communities in the 80s. And we have to intuit there are many more important differences between Appalachia and urban environments

This issue is complex. Poverty, Policy, Proximity and Policing. I would argue, these elements are all at play here. McWhorter moves from "can we know for sure" to implying that "this may not be race". Well, of course, it is possible that that is not necessarily the case. I think the whole point is that there is in fact a system that has resulted in black people living in highly concentrated situations where these things happen. And of course this is better than in the past, but he tends to also avoid the history of America that is littered with the blood of black men. Also - I find it odd that as black men, these two dudes may have not experienced issues related to being targeted by the police. But again, it is a complex issue.

@negaosafado

4 жыл бұрын

History is tightly related to this horrific outcome for George Floyd.

What is your response to people who claim that current unrest, rioting, looting is akin to The Boston Tea party and revolution and should be seen as appropriate in proportion to the problem?

@nicholasprice6902

2 жыл бұрын

The Boston Tea Party was directed at the tea that the British were making the colonists purchase from them. Looting is directed at innocent third parties. That’s the very obvious difference.

I have just recently found these two brilliant and fair-minded scholars. John McWhorter's point: We must always question our own views and assumptions - something my liberal friends seem to have forgotten. Arguing with them is pointless because they are 100% certain they are correct - damn the facts and evidence. I no longer even try...

The police should be as the Sheppard to his flock not as the butcher to the sheep.

@austingoyne3039

4 жыл бұрын

rxp56 The latter appears to be true: mappingpoliceviolence.org

@sephus99

4 жыл бұрын

They are the sheepdog not the shepherd

I'm trying to find an old episode where Glenn talks about the statistics one of his previous students came up with when studying police violence in a few different cities. I believe one of them was Houston. The findings were that when all the controls are taken into consideration, police actually kill black men less often than white men but that they end up getting physical in some manner more often. Can anyone tell me what episode this was discussed on and/or where I can find those studies? It may not be published yet. Thanks.

What delightful conversations.not everyone in academia is nuts.

great conversation. addressed the multi-faceted issues very well. It's so sad that this video doesn't even have 1,000 views yet.

@JourneysEnd

4 жыл бұрын

It’s a repost, it has 37K views on the blogging heads KZread channel

My word John. If we don't begin to say and change the social conversation how would Omar ever know, as the rest of us know, he is wrong!

Chrissy Teigen reminds me of the alien on Enemy Mine.

John is such a likeable guy.

Mr. Loury's falling into the All or none fallacy. I can tell my son or daughter for instance that racism may be at times an obstacle without having them believe that they will be met with racism at every step of their lives. Larry Elder likes to use terms like, "hold you back", or "stop you", both fallacious.

@AmberPollard

4 жыл бұрын

Very balanced and thoughtful. :) I definitely agree.

I don't think defining destuctive behaviors as "moral failings" is helpful b/c it is a label that doesn't explain anything. I think destructive behaviors are a result of psychological trauma and would reference the ACE - Adverse Childhood Events studies.

@Ripprock1

4 жыл бұрын

Just keeping step with good ole American double speak. Bad kids acting up = Adverse Childhood Events, Destructive behaviours = moral failings. I could go on for a long time.

@austingoyne3039

4 жыл бұрын

It’s both imo. To a great extent we are not responsible for the way we are. But that doesn’t doesn’t mean that our actions can’t be graded on a scale of moral success/failure.

@negaosafado

4 жыл бұрын

An other relevant question in this regard is why is it that black youth seems to be faced on a disproportionally higher rate with these "moral choices".

@Individual_Lives_Matter

4 жыл бұрын

Making excuses for bad behavior rarely results in any increase in good outcomes. The well-intended PROMISE program contributed to the death of Trayvon Martin and the Parkland School shooting. Bad behavior requires consequences, sooner or later.

@Individual_Lives_Matter

4 жыл бұрын

Martin was a beneficiary of the PROMISE program.

There is definitely a disconnect of moral failing and lack of knowledge and the police culture knows this. They have the privilege of statistical studies in these communities and can institute l&o the way they deem fit. You are not saying anything wrong but, articulation, truth, and knowledge have always been a no no for black men with no suit and tie. At times even with.

Can't wait for the book, John! SO desperately needed. Forward by Loury! Hope you'll connect with Brett Weinstein on the project, and include case studies on Washington state's proposed Office of Equity, and City of Seattle's whites-only anti-racist training.

36:00 wow

Chrissy Tiegan was a supermodel. Duh she is super pretty. I love Dr. Lowry

We have a gun problem; not enough of then in liberal cities.

Go hard John....

The frequency and nature of encounter is problematic, because it is essentially saying, I am at risk as a black man due to the behavior of other black men. I can't impose that on anyone. How could I impose that standard say on an employer. I can't sue employer's B and C, for discrimination I experienced with employer A. So I reject that as an acceptable mitigating factor for police misconduct.

Take up the White Man's burden- And reap his old reward: The blame of those ye better, The hate of those ye guard- The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:- "Why brought ye us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night?"

Black essentialism, yes. But isn’t underneath that just determinism?

You lost me on the "United States has a gun problem"; I have yet to see a gun do anything on it's own. Morality problems abound. The rest was wonderful, thank you two for the time you took.

Glenn nails it starting at 13:00

These men are shouldering an enormous intellectual burden and should be recognized for their dedication to reason over reflex. Listen to Prof. McWhorter and tell me you would not trust the man to judge an argument on it's merit rather than it's emotional appeal. Listen to Prof. Loury and tell me you believe he's an 'apologist for the structures of racial domination'(17:39). They differ quite a bit in perspective on a few things but instead of focusing on nebulous, unfalsifiable opinions they choose to face reality in a manner compatible with progress rather than tear down that which enables it. When it's your turn to face the inquisition will you be as brave?

As a white man, it would be easy for me to listen to this discussion and close my mind firmly to existence of racism in America. I won't do that and want to learn a lot more, because I know you must be missing something important, but I don't know what. As Glenn referenced Bill Maher's "I don't know it's a fact, I just know it's true" segment. I hear what you both say and think you're correct on many of your points, but I think you still under-appreciate the current effects of racism and racial injustice in the country, especially outside the liberal bastions of this country. I may find this online yet, but I wonder your thoughts are on the steps that *are needed to achieve racial equality; not just through law, but in the hearts and minds of all citizens. I look forward to seeing more of your discussions, along with others who disagree with you.

This conversation should be on national TV and CNN, MSNBC, etc should be taken off of the air. Glenn has moral sensibility deriving from his religious background. John has developed an allergic reaction to all religion which leads to his not wanting to call immoral actions immoral. There are plenty of voices where the child who shoots someone could hear the other, more moral options. Movies he has likely seen must have presented something of moral sentiment. His own conscience and his own recognition that if what he is doing to someone else was done to him, he would see it as a “wrong” committed against him. There is nobody who doesn’t have an innate moral understanding. John’s resistance to these realities makes me concerned for his writing a book calling Anti-Racism a “Religion”. For inherent in John’s claim is a judgment of religion itself as always contemptible. It would perhaps be advantageous for John to read Rene Girard’s Scapegoat and atheist historian Tom Holland’s recent book Dominion which traces the historical effects of Christianity. If John can temper his proclivity toward anti-religionism his book on anti-racism as religion may benefit by adding subtleties he may otherwise avoid. And Glenn as co-author may be a good idea to assist with a more balanced view as well. One of things clearly missing from the BLM crowd that was very present in MLK was the insistence by King before every demonstration that the members leading the protest would pray to God to forgive them their own wrongs, to make sure they took inventory of anything that was hate driven or revenge seeking rather than loving and justice seeking. And this was derived from King’s Christian Humanism.

So has anybody seen Glen re-visit this after seeing the body cam footage of Floyd acting high as a kite?

@RootBound505

7 ай бұрын

You have to wait until December 2023 to watch them backpedal and blame “being lied to”, although they were privy to the same footage and narrative that we all were.

“Police culture” is root, right!

Glenn Loury: 18.00 minute: "I'm trying to stay in touch with reality. That's all I'm actually trying to do". That's a sign of intelligence in any person; black, white, yellow, green, blue... An individual human being who can really think, because he thinks beyond categories and groups.

@ccali327

4 жыл бұрын

That's the point... thinking "beyond categories and groups." It's amazing how difficult this seems to be for so many.

I have a race. You have a race. To bring race into this I think creates underlying division. Were white and black protesters shot and beaten and gassed by the police? Was this justified? If not then there is union in our suffering as theres union in our poverty and exploitation. To bring race into this however you cut it creates alienation irrespective of your United cause and suffrage.

The entire social contract is NOT dependent on our current take on property rights! Smarten up! Love ❤️

The real question is whether are not the killings of black men by police happen when lethal force is justified. I look at law differently. I say what is the risk reward components of the crime. If a criminal determines that the reward is worth the risk, it's not for the police to determine a different punishment than law makers have provided.

Glenn, the predilection to crime is unquestionably a moral failing (almost by definition, except in the case of unjust laws), but it still has to do with economic circumstances. I could be the morally weakest person on the planet, but if my wallet is already full, I’m far less likely to bother to come get yours.

It’s “Nells” Olsen. Not “Nills.” 😊

Arbery brought his fists to a gunfight. That's a real bad idea.

@Neloch4

4 жыл бұрын

This is a very disgusting misinterpretation of the situation. Please do not do this.

@omgpickle

4 жыл бұрын

Nero is right. Arbery used his fists to turn it into a gunfight. Killed himself by pulling on the shotgun of the man that tried to do a citizen's arrest. He would've lived if he had just waited for the police to arrive. They had been called already.

According to my exhaustive research--skin color only matters as an identifier when the victim of a crime. But even that is problematic. The suspect was Black, White, Brown, etc. . . . I am legally blind so what do I know. Love all ya'll (until proven otherwise). Shalom-Aleichem.

Just because Omar didn't have parents doesn't make it right. People know right from wrong

They did that for whole hour.

20:56

Y'all should include Chris Hedges in this debate

Would have been far more interesting if Mr. Loury had someone on with an actual opposing point of view, and there are hundreds of black academics who do. Somehow I doubt that he wants to put his beliefs and opinions up against intellectual scrutiny. That would be far too uncomfortable for him. He'd rather just mock Ta-Nehisi Coates.

@matthewharvey3556

4 жыл бұрын

It’s not even a little hard to find debates and discussions these guys have held with people whose views differ more sharply. Google is your friend.

@kwm7895

4 жыл бұрын

One could contemplate the reverse as well..... why are these men not INVITED by those who have opposing views to discuss it with them. This is not a "passive" process.....invitations go both ways.

I love John!!!

I like normal people!

Lol, wow, I had only watched ONE other video of you two guys and it was about Brett Kavanaugh. When I opened this video, I recognized John as the guy that I hated because he said he knew Brett was guilty even though he had no evidence (and couldn't be convinced that he had no reason to believe what he did). So I sat through this whole conversation (very good mind you) with it constantly in the back of my head that even though John seems to be rational and making sense here.. there was still some irrational ideologue just below the surface somewhere. Then in the very last minute of the video, he retracts the thing that make me hate him in the first place.. what are the chances of that... :) Thank you so much for mentioning that Trayvon Martin hoax video, I had not seen is, wow.

Chauvin should never be free to walk with decent society again. However, George Floyd should not be made into a martyr. Watch Candace Owens or Brandon Tatum's videos on this - excellent points made. Always enjoy your videos as well.

@negaosafado

4 жыл бұрын

George Floyd live trajectory bears all the hallmarks of a biased society targeting his skin color. A life trajectory that many, of his skin color, can relate to. Ended before the eyes of the world strangled under the foot of the oppressor of his people.

I feel like it's impossible to prove any one act was racism from a formal philosophical point of view because you've got facts and opinions mixing up. A fact doesn't lead to an opinion or vice versa, causally. The cause of opinions are opinions, the causes of facts are facts. But racism can be identified similarly to a rainstorm. If it wasn't there we'd have more light (equality in real terms at various levels) and fewer "raindrops" of events that are not normal unless viewed through a racist lens. Poverty doesn't morally excuse all crime, point to Glenn. Opportunists looting or ignorant or "morally failed" people vandalizing and destroying doesn't invalidate protests. As an escalation of urgency when aboveboard civil discourse has failed for basically all time to bridge the gap, Minneapolis protesters burning down a police precinct seems to be pretty concise. They didn't try to lynch the cop who killed George. They didn't try to uppercut a raindrop. They wounded the institution that propped up the bad cop who had many complaints prior to this incident, for which he faced no consequences. They're fighting the rainstorm. But the metaphor breaks down from there. Because fighting the rainstorm might be futile, but fighting the institutions like the police department that wouldn't escalate disciplinary steps against an officer who accrued those complaints is worthwhile and plausible. Fighting the police union that protects the worst of the worst is plausible. Instituting a Brady Cop fix is plausible. Hierarchically organizing police such that there is proper oversight is possible, within cities it's more possible because federally I think it would need states to ratify a new ammendment. I feel like it's wrong to dismiss the protests over the looters, and truly meaningless to debate whether or not a given event is racist. To Glenn's question at 27:10 or so, I think Americans *are* sympathetic to the protests even when they get violent, when the provocation is so intense, when the protests were peaceful until law enforcement escalated with violence, when the targets aren't humans but institutions, when the mob isn't incoherent but has actual demands, and I think that's plain to see by the international response. After riots in Minneapolis the international response was solidarity and mass demonstrations in support of Black Lives Matter and police reform.