I’d love to get some lore of Calgar and Azreal just complaining about how strict their dads are to each other when they eventually see each other

@Martin_von_Koenigsberg

4 ай бұрын

heresy

@scatterthewinds3126

4 ай бұрын

It would just be calgar talking and azrael listening

@seraphjansin1141

4 ай бұрын

That would be funny

@mjsef88

4 ай бұрын

Man I miss TTS

@wolfjaw7104

4 ай бұрын

Calgar: "my daddy makes me feel inadequate" Azreal: " I love my dad, my dad is fuckin sweet" shows pict feeds of him and the lion riding roller coaster and purging the galaxy together.

I frickin’ love the way the Risen arrive into battle. That image of the Lion popping up out of nowhere, followed up by a flanking of his black-armored posse, is just the coolest image. And then Kai opens his mouth and ruins it, probably.

Honestly, some of these chapter masters deserve a break.. hell, Calgar isn’t even a whole marine. The mechanicus would love what he’s got going on.. don’t even have to mention the Dante after the battle of Baal. They forget they’re human

@Lomhow

4 ай бұрын

Dude I felt so horrible for Dante in like every book he's in. Baal was just such a miserable experience for him. You could say it was a complete blood bath *buh-dum~tiss*

@-Gilver

4 ай бұрын

Honestly I'm wondering now how the successor chapters must be feeling about Guilliman and the Lion being back

When you described Luther's escape, I imagined Azrael making a decoy Luther out of paper and putting him in his cell, then trying to convince the Lion that nothing happened. Lion asks why he isn't moving and Azrael pokes him and says, look he moved. XD

@donelkingii3738

4 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@Hewrin88

4 ай бұрын

Or just be like "yeah he was already paper when we found him"

There is a excpert from the codex where The Lion says Azrael can keep his lion helm. He would take back the helm if a day ever comes, that he believed the Grand Master wouldn't be worthy of it. But it is not this day. So The Lion seem to trust Azrael and like him at the head of the Unforgiven.

@khalduras784

4 ай бұрын

Sounds interesting. In which book?

@nimmha6708

3 ай бұрын

@@khalduras784 He literally states it in the first sentence. The codex. Probably the latest released version of the DA codex to be exact.

He’s gonna remain supreme grand master, and LEJ keeps him close but not too close and continues the cycle of destroying the Dark Angels self esteem by never telling them the full truth but slowly steers them away from the course they’ve been on the last 10k years and Azrael will be around it, that’s it.

@benchartrand3014

4 ай бұрын

Sounds good to me. It's still better than the raging ass bags that they've been for millennia.

I just started watching this, but my initial take was: Azreal will be absolutely elated to have the Lion return. If for nothing else, it'll be an aleviation of the burden he carries. Remember, Azreal is the keeper of ALL Dark Angel secrets. The pressure and stress that generates must be immense. Finally he'll have someone he can share that burden with.

@Kameth

4 ай бұрын

The Lion walks in, and Azreal has dragged out a couch and a notepad, thrusts the notepad into Lion's hands, collapses onto the couch and just trauma dumps all the Dark Angels secrets to the Lion. Lion: Well. First things first, I clearly need to take Vulkan's example and start hugging my sons more often. Damn.

@Gunnberg85

4 ай бұрын

@@Kameth Lion: "There, there." Azreal: "Thank you for being so kind and understanding, my lord." Lion: pointing at the notes, "There, there, and there are where you had failed."

Im dying for the Lions next book, son of the forest answered so many questions, but some have become even more clouded in mistery

@plasmahdtv

4 ай бұрын

Have you read arks of omen the Lion?

This was a thought-provoking video. I think if Azrael is going to rise above the self-criticism, he needs to realize how he was putting vindictiveness ahead of service to humanity, because the former is all his Primarch cares about.

i think it's more than possible for Azreal to be somewhat shaken by the revelation that Lion has infact forgiven some of the fallen, everything he's done till this point no matter how resolute and ruthless it was, was done with the belife that what he did was right, but i wouldn't be suprised if he second guessed him self and his past actions, wether everything they did to hunt fallen is justified. it's one thing to belive he failed in the mission that he always had. but it's something entierly different to know that the mission it self was wrong.

I have been a very old fan of the DAs since forever, and I have always been very sad for the fact that the Chapter lore described them as masters of strategy and tactics, the most numerous, unscrupulous, disciplined, effective, better equipped with ancient relics and secret caches of lostech, la creme de la creme of all Astartes, and yet in all the stories they behave or are treated like muppets (sincerely speaking, all this "let's kill everyone because there might have been a fallen taking a dump in a diner on this planet" is so so so silly, or each and every time Cypher fooled them like Bugs Bunny with Elmer Fudd, and now Vashtorr and Marbas), and in any case they manage to struggle even when paired with unglamorous opponents. I am so glad the Lion is back, and I hope he scrubs away all the shame for this mistreated chapter. I am done and done with this Unforgiven thing, it has been mishandled in the decades, and Azrael better keep up with his primarch's pace.

@erih2934

4 ай бұрын

Same here. DA fan since the 90s and I'm so sick of the way the Fallen storyline has been done. They love to turn the DA either into villains or punching bags.

@nimmha6708

3 ай бұрын

But that has been said about many chapters.. from Ultramarines to Imperial fists.. they all been named "the most effective" and such attributes.

@maffa2849

3 ай бұрын

@@nimmha6708 No not really. This is the Legion's own lore. The pre-heresy Dark Angels were the prototype for all the Legions as much as Lion'El Johnson was the prototype for all the primarchs. The Legion got the most numerous and the best troops as well as archeoweapons and ships. They have been the most succesful of all Legions and were the ones that won against the Rangdan Genocide wars that most probably killed one of the forgotten legions. That was also the beginning of the end for the legion as they lost one third of the whole legion, the rest has been done by the Heresy, the destruction of Caliban where a very good chunk of the legion was kept in reserve, and the rest squandered by the successor chapters with the hunt for the Fallen.

@nimmha6708

3 ай бұрын

@@maffa2849Oh don't worry, I know the lore. The problem is, I know more than the DA lore.. Imperial fists were also (back in legion-size era) called exactly the same, the most perfected and tactical finessed of his angels and how effective they were compared to other legions.. Later on during chapter size it went from BT's to Ultramarines being the "best" all-around chapter. And I don't disagree with you, I remember that lore you wrote perfectly. But like I said, they weren't the only ones this has been said about. It's what happens when the lore is so wide/deep and you got so many different writers working with it.

@nimmha6708

3 ай бұрын

@@maffa2849 I don't remember "Lion'El Johnson was the prototype for all the primarchs" though...

Calgar didn’t fail. Guilliman is changing his own rules regarding Ultramar’s governance and defence. Guilliman should sit Calgar down and explain everything, reassure him.

@e21big

4 ай бұрын

Azrael on the other hand...

@DocWolph

4 ай бұрын

If Guilliman only had the time...

@kurzor0007

4 ай бұрын

Or Big Bobby G can simply tell him, "Imagine what it's like between me and MY Dad"

@DocWolph

4 ай бұрын

@@kurzor0007 Except Rowboat did not do it out of gross indifference, malice, or a myopic desire to save the universe.

@kurzor0007

4 ай бұрын

@@DocWolph yeah, for all his statesman abilities, Papa Smurf sometimes lacks the finesse or tact in interacting with people, unintentionally offending even his own sons

SPOILER FOR THE NEW DARK ANGEL SUPPLEMENT: Azrael tries to give Lion 'The Lion Helm' back. The Lion explains that he will only take it back when he thinks Azrael is not worthy of leading the Dark Angels chapter and that now is not that time.

Dante has now met 2x primarchs and is respected by both.

Azrael has the legionaries to deal with too. He will have those exemplars to measure himself against. All of the Unforgiven do.

That would require GW to actually put out some books advancing the 40k timeline's narrative.

@FormerGovernmentHuman

4 ай бұрын

The timeline has advanced significantly quicker in the past few years than it had in all the decades previously combined. It’s a good time to be a 40k fan imo

@jonharrison9222

4 ай бұрын

Like the series of books over the last few years doing just that, say.

@leandrocastello309

4 ай бұрын

God, these "fans" still holding grudges from 2004 like they are Fantasy Drawfs. The timeline is advancing at bullet's speed for the standards of this franchise and has been since 8th edition.

I would love to see how Vulkan and Tu'Shan would do if Vulkan would return. I think they would work together better than most of the other primarchs and chapter masters. I do think Azreal will do well under the Lion just because I feel like he knows his place and welcomes it.

Great video, I've always thought Azreal would take it all in stride. He is too pragmatic, not to, I think..

i expect the lion to offer forgiveness and a clean slate to all the uncorrupted of his legion. i think that the lion will not listen to his failures at all and that will punish azreal in its own way.

Your alls upload timing is impeccable right as I go on lunch

@KarbhonBlaC

4 ай бұрын

Always a good thing

I am honestly more curious Asmodai and how he reckons to the Risen.

@Razorblaydes2652

4 ай бұрын

I need a short story devoted to Asmodai and his inner struggle to respect his primarchs wishes to accept the unification of “Risen” and “Unforgiven” and his urge to purge them all for unknown heretical misgivings

@byronlee-wi3zv

4 ай бұрын

Asmodai head is going to explode when he finds out. For they are now forgiven by the Lion.

@combomaster666

4 ай бұрын

@@byronlee-wi3zv Or part with his head.

I see Azrael taking on a role similar to that of Corswain. The Risen could very well become the Lions own version of the Sanguinary Guard.

I hope what's going to happen is that Lion El'Johnson will just go "you're an idiot, I was an idiot, we're all idiots, but we're going to go from there and NOT be idiots from here on out" and emphasize that the mission of saving the Imperium matters and that's the only important thing. Remember, Azreal and most of the Inner Circle have made it clear that if the secret of the Fallen was ever widely revealed...they would submit to Imperial justice without a fight. They would NOT be the start of a second Horus Heresy or Badab War 2.0-Electric Boogaloo. Mind you, I could see the Lion and Azreal giving everyone one chance to redeem themselves...and punishing anyone that pushes that edge.

Briefly regarding Calgar, he has nothing to apologise for! Ultramar stood under Calgar's watch! Azreal will also face his inner daemons. A Primarch is a being of awe, and would cause anyone to reflect on their past!

Dark Angels lack the sort of individual ego and limits on necessary actions that the Ultramarines have. The sort of immediate, doubtless sanction which would be disgusting on Macragge is known as "Thursday" on the Rock.

Chapter Masters were a thing during the Great Crusade. Also, let’s not forget that the Dark Angels have a LOT of layers, circles, orders, etc. Azrael will not want for things to do or responsibility.

Calgar is waking up to the reality that the Imperium has been failing slowly. This is the extent of the entire might of the Imperium; their ability to fail slowly rather than quickly. Calgar is a microcosm of this bleak and terrible reality

I guess Azrael just goes back to breaking Draigo's balls.

Great video and the only Chapter that would have no shame at their fathers return and just joy would be the Blood Angels. The aw and inspiration of a Primarch is forgotten by most after seeing them in the Horus Heresy so many times people forget that even their Astartes sons feel it.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the Lion finds out that Azrael has turned the legion into legit traitors while trying to capture and kill alleged traitors...

@daothucanh9621

25 күн бұрын

I'm not familiar with WH40K lore but the whole killing innocent people, even your allies, because you're afraid they know the truth of your legion’s past sin is so stupid, like bro you are killing your own men for no good reason, you are damaging the Imperium and mankind. That's in itself is betrayal, how could they not see it????

I'm genuinely curious how Tidus is going to feel when he meets Guilliman. As 2nd company commander, it was his job to protect Gulliman in his slumber, yet was pulled away just before Gullimans resurrection. I think all high-ranking Astartes will feel some amount of shame that they can not live up to their gene father's, even though they are incapable of it. They are NOT Primarchs, they are men.

I wish Votann would get some love already us Votann players need more named characters and lore desperately along with a codex

I thought this video was about the Dark Angels, not ultra marines 🙄

I appreciate this video as I was wondering it myself. Poo Marneus was doing his best to do his job, despite a back slide in technology, despite having only a chapter rather than a legion, and suddenly Bobby G comes along and just casually sweeps his accomplishments to the side. Could it be because of his meeting with the emperor and the following disappointment? Could it be that Bobby G was proud, but busy and did not realize it thinking that this proud, battle-scarred warrior did amazing things with what he had? Who knows. The Lion may take Azrael under his wing, he may rebuke him and cause another schism in the first legion. All I will say is that when Papa Russ returns, he better appreciate all the amazing things that his kids have done.

More importantly, how about Asmodai and the rest of Interrogator-Chaplain? They will protest, there is no doubt about that. And Lion is a heavy handed person, there will be conflict

Is there any news on books about the primarchs meeting yet? its been almost a year and nothing

I think Guilliman could have addressed the situation with Calgar better. I don't see Marneus as having failed, rather he took what was handed to him and did the best he could with what he had. There are ways to say that improvements can be made without framing it as a failure. One thing I stress with my children is that a mistake is a chance to learn and get better and that you only really fail when you quit and choose not to learn and improve.

Calgar bout fall to chaos if he keeps feeling that way

I think Azrael will handle the feelings of guilt/inadequacy that Calgar got a lot better just because the Dark Angels have so much instilled in them when they learn of the Fallen in the first place. It's easier to be told "you fucked up" when you've been dealing with that for a long time rather than it seeming "oh i've been doing great" then being told "yeah no, you fucked up"

Considering how the Lion has changed, I think he will.feel.sorry for Azrael and his sons for the burden they have placed on themselves and forgive them just as he has the now redeemed Fallen. While he will not approve of everything and be enraged at the escape of Luther, I don't see Azrael doubting himself as much as Calgar as they are driven by two very different motives. Calgar wishes for glory for the Ultramarines while Azrael seeks to uphold the loyalty and wipe the shame from the Unforgiven. Calgar feels disrespected but Azrael will feel doubt but I don't think he has anything to worry about in terms of rebuke from the Lion. If this was 30K Lion El'Johnson then it would be a different matter but with the change of the Lion and his acceptance of what the Imperium has become more readily than Guiliman, I think he too will accept Azrael for his service as it was his steadfast and perceived arrogance in the past that caused so much grief for him that he has learned to step back and be more reserved and accepting of the flaws of others. When he talked with his redeemed sons on the Blood Angels strike cruiser in the Arks of Omen, he didn't show any reaction to the Fallen telling him of his they have been hunted by the Unforgiven other than saying that they will accept the now Redeemed sons. I worry more about Calgar than I do Azrael. For the Lion! For the Emperor!

Even in Guilliman's shadow, Calgar's doubts are a rewrite of his character.

Calgar making a few mistakes in judgment is one thing. Azrael slaughtering witnesses to a random Fallen is something else. And what's the name of the guy who tortures people to death for even thinking bad thoughts? Yeah, that's a real problem. Should be interesting.

@umptischmutz

4 ай бұрын

Asmodai is that particular nut case.

if gw knew how to write anarrative id say that at least asmodai and possibly some other interrogator chaplains would go rogue, azrael however im not sure. characters like that defo need some time with daddy to realize that they have put revenge and their own personal hate ahead of their duty therby making them the ones that arae technically traitors. azrael needs to grow wise like his daddy did

Have we ever gotten any pov from asrael?

How does the Lion Helm - a Primarchs helmet, fit a marine?

@Kami_81

4 ай бұрын

I was wondering the same thing!...His head must be floating in that helm, unless primarchs have really small heads...

I think any chapter master would feel a bit lacking when they come face to face with their genefather demigod. They would be used to being the top dog and then to be face to face with someone who they naturally honor and physically outmatch them like they outmatch a normal human.

Less ultra marine and more dark angels

"Oh bugger! The copier's out of paper again. Azrael, could you work your magic again?" "Yes, my lord." "Also, there's a dead pigeon in the main water tank. Must have gotten in after my last forest walk..." "Yes, my lord."

I believe most of us wish to see the Lion-Guilliman reunion. Will they hit it off from the getgo? Or will they hit each other, at the beginning,?

It be great if the chapter masters leading the chapter on the return of their Primarch received command of their own newly founded chapter as a reward for their loyal service & a show of respect to their leadership

Lots to factor in here because the main thing they really haven't addressed is the Lion discussing the Fallen with the DA. That will be a chastisement no matter how it comes out, especially as his new guard (can't remember their name) are the fallen. Everything else though the Lion is really aware how much he screwed up and he is very much about protecting people now and that will be where Azrael feels chastised given their past behaviour. I doubt the Lion will notice or care to mollofy that though beyond saying he judges what he sees from now.

To answer your question... Imagine you get drafted by your favorite team to replace your favorite player, a guy whose posters adorned your teenage walls, while he rehabs an awful, possibly career ending, injury. You become a star and now it's your poster being hung in kids rooms all over the galaxy....and then the star player makes a miraculous and unforseen return. You'd be in a state of shock. You know his career stats by heart and you start doing the math, comparing your best season to his and realizing you F'ing SUCK compared to a first ballot hall of famer. You still deserve every award and honor you've received...but where you can fill a shelf with ribbons and trophies, the star had to buy a planet to house his ribbons and another planet to hold his trophies. All I'm saying is that neither Caldor nor Azrael are comparing themselves down the chain, they are egotistical warriors competing with a god amongst demigods.

I wonder if Calgar will fall to Chaos

I feel using the Caliban Protocol as an example of Azrael’s commitment is not just a bad example but also the precise reason for why Azrael will be shaken and feel uncertainty with the Lion returned. He and his Chapter have committed horrible (even treasonous) acts in the name of their Chapter’s secrets. Now with the Lion returned he’ll have to not only answer for those actions but also the Fallen who are now a major part of the renewed Dark Angels. How will a fervently certain man like Azrael deal with the massive change and with the knowledge that he and his chapter may have been wrong for 10’thousand years.

I feel like Lion will be irritated that Azrael is focused on losing Luther, Rock invasions etc. and not all the secrets and betraying allies.

Guilliman did say that many things and people in 40k disappoints him but calgar isnt one of them

In Calgars defence having a Primarch like Guilliman is a huge challenge the man is a perfectionist unlike no other in warhammer

Wouldn’t Dante also be in the same regards as Azrael and calgar given the fact that he’s the warden of nihilis?

Yeah, I'd probably be wishing that I had perished bringing back my primarch rather than having to be in Calgar's or Azrael's shoes right now. As great as they are, they're not primarchs.

One difference is that the Lion, while he has a great battle record, has plenty of black marks on his record. The unforgiven are ultimately a failing of the Lion's leadership.

Azrael is just gonna have to live with the fact he is now lorded over by a mega murder machine that never answers any questions. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

They had bosses even before primarchs showing up. The primarchs should feel a relief to men that have to deal with the things they deal with and I am sure the hunger to start winning and having the weight of a primarchs words against the enemies within that stop success. Management has changed for the better.

I would think they'd start to feel like Luther when the Lion left him and the Caliban born Dark Angels on Caliban.

Marneus Calgar is heading down the path of Chaos

Remember how luther was always talking about how the lion would forgive him when he returns would be wild if that actually happens and he takes his place at the lions side.

@ThatRatBastard

4 ай бұрын

I don't think Luther can take a side by the Lion, but he can be redeemed. It would require his death though.

@erih2934

4 ай бұрын

Jonson already made it clear how redemption will look like for those touched by Chaos. Luther won't be on his side, neither should he be. Luther was a traitor before being corrupted by Tzeentch. I'm just wondering if we will get a resolution for this storyline or if it will just end up as a Fallen mini faction with a Luther model and thus a never ending conflict... or just like now - no faction, no mini, no resolution... it's been just 30 odd years, so lets not hurry GW...

There is one major difference between Marneus Calgar and Azrael: Calgar merely thinks he has failed, and disapointed his Primarch. But Azrael actually has failed, and in doing so has betrayed his Primarch, his Chapter and the Imperium.

HE'S NOT EXACTLY A "CORSWAINE"

He gets the same treatment as calgar

I hope the Lion enacts some kind of justice for the sins of the caliban protocol. That just doesn't sit right with me.

I predict he commits a Dark Angel version of seppuku, and GW rids itself of the first of its iconic characters.

Calgar is feeling the opposite of Dante

It wouldn't be 40k without daddy issues

Supreme Vice President of Grudges Azrael? Supreme Coffee Maker Azrael? Supreme Secretary Azrael? Supreme Gofer Azrael? Supreme Dictation Taker Azrael? Any number of possibilities really.

I hope the lion punishes the 40k dark angels for what they've done just to protect their reputation from the fallen. As he will with no doubt want to know everything that's been going on as his nature is to seek out secrets.

What's the Lion reaction seeing a Primaris marines in his son's ranks?

@erih2934

4 ай бұрын

There will be no reaction to the Primaris. GW will do their best to ignore the Primaris lore as it started in 10th by removing the keyword and unit name addition and I bet from 11th on you won't read anything about it.

@nimmha6708

3 ай бұрын

@@erih2934 exactly.. Just a WEIRD way of them to remove the regular sized marines over time.. Without people revolting.

Calgar, take me away!

The difference here is "Luther" .. the Lion will DEFINITELY keep Azrael close, there's no way he's going to make that mistake again..

The Primarchs should have sympathy and pity for the marines. The Primarchs screwed the galaxy up, disappeared, leave the marines to figure it out for 10k years, then come back and judge them.

is it me or theres so many repeated line and its getting a bit vexing even though the dialog is super cool :(

As you state, they are comparing themselves to the legends of these primarchs and their immediate and obvious competency. That said, the current chapter masters didn’t lose half their brothers, their father, and the entire imperium to chaos. In reality, the chapter masters have been saving the imperium from the great failures of the Emperor and the primarchs.

Azreal can take it easy for a bit. Like 5 minutes before he will go off and slaughter chaos, tyranids, orks, Necrons and fall... I mean lost and the damned. Azreal will face the shame of being so paranoid of the truth getting our. See TTS for reference.

Have you considered not immediately repeating entirely what you've literally just said? Like, I get you're doing it for emphasis, but try paraphrasing, please.

azreal is a sob of the lion. yes he will feel inferior to the lion. but he has no regrets. not truly. emotions yes but he is azreal. a loyal son of the lion he'll rise to the lions call for one thing is certain. loyalty is its own reward.

I think this focus on failure will get infected, and he might focus on it so hard that no matter what his primarch says he won't believe. Leading to his corruption

Calgar leading the most successful star empire in the Imperium: I am nothing but a completed failure before my Primarch Azrael backstabbing allies and loyalist for the entire last centuries: (sweat profusely)

Listening to this, I realize I had forgotten how ridiculous Dark Angels lore is post heresy. Literally, the worst Marines ever. I'd trust Angron running a daycare more than I'd trust the Dark Angels to not do something retarded for more than 15 minutes

Guilliman and The Lion should take a page from Sanguinius and Dorn in reassuring their current Chapter Masters: In Devastation of Baal, Dante had a vision of Sanguinius and he referred to Dante as "My Son, my greatest son". While in Warhawk, Rogal Dorn referred to Sigismund as "my beloved, my best, son" Just that reassurance from their respective Dads would go a long way

These doubts that Calgar has seems like a good way for Chaos to pry him away from Guilliman. I actually kinda want it to happen. Would be a cool story.

I’m glad that I can commiserate GW’s horrible shipping ability. My DWA box still hasn’t even shipped yet. Going mad watching other people online having already assembled and painted models.

I think Azrael will likely feel inadequacy around the Lion, dont all space marines around their Primarch? Few things to remember is that talk with Emperor and Lion "some men need such pomp, some do not". Dark Angels take after Lion with their "grim resolve". Also promotions in the Dark Angels means bearing increasing amounts of the chapters shame, they call themselves the unforgiven after all. I feel that Azrael will be relieved by the Lion far more than Calgar as for the unforgiven the leadership role was always more about bearing the chapters perceived sins.

Not going to lie but I'm more concern that this chapter is just traitors. You are turning on the very people you swore to protect and decided to kill them. You are dirty traitors.

Drama queen super human warriors, are just big emo Karen’s… disappointing

Wolf why u naver get to the point?

@nimmha6708

3 ай бұрын

watch time gathering.

Hang on, he slaughtered his allies just to hide the fallen secret? And enacted "The Caliban Protocol"?? That's actually what's it's called?? 😂 Some aspects of the lore are so dumb. Maybe the dark angels are just dumb