"The oldest game dates back 5,000 years to the ancient Egyptians..." *Yu-Gi-Oh theme starts playing in my head*

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

😂

@rileymcphee9429

9 ай бұрын

IT'S TIME TO G-G-G-G... GGGGG- GAME!

James Fitz. makes a good point below. Roll and move isn't a lame mechanic unless a designer uses it generically. It's up to the designer how to utilize it cleverly and in a way that is integral and fun. Roll and move deserves to be in a designer's trick bag. This video shows many good examples of this.

@cogitoergomeeple4298

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed! I think the problem is much more to do with the amount of games that have used it badly than the mechanic itself!

@milanstevic8424

5 ай бұрын

I can imagine a combination of black-jack and roll-and-move to work really well for a push-your-luck minigame.

This made me remember that brutal Pokémon game, Master Trainer. You always roll first, but from the second city onwards, you decide the path you take and the direction you move. The game was long only due to players' decisions, as you have to plan how to use your cards to catch Pokémon, or even to battle, gather some items, plan the best time to get an event, etc. The dice still decides the move, but you decide what's going to happen once you move. The best part of it is that it is never punishing (yeah, you may have a bad roll trying to catch, but Pokémon can escape, and you may even have a bad roll in a battle but there's always a winner in these); I mean, bad results have a reason, not like Monopoly where once you roll directly to another player's owned property, you're screwed.

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

That sounds really cool. I haven't played Master Trainer but might have to check it out now. Like everyone else my age, I loved the original Pokémon game! I think this is a good example of how the mechanism can work well if implemented correctly. Thanks for your comment!

Pre-luck = randomize, then input Post-luck = input, then randomize Luck = randomize with no input Simple roll & move = Luck

@MisterRandomEncounter

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for codifying this

@milanstevic8424

5 ай бұрын

this also explains why it appeals to masses: - the mechanism is easy to pick-up (and explain [and works even when explanations fail]) - excessive decision-making and strategy are not required to participate - does not require you to actually be smart (or at least you can sometimes win through sheer luck) all leading to the wide appeal for the bulk of humanity. I am honestly not sure why this social effect is not taken into account more seriously. it is as if the educated people completely ignore the vast storeys beneath them on the labor pyramid, yet someone has to do mundane jobs, and they probably like to play games too. in other words, these people aren't at a level of luxury that allows them to ENJOY HOBBIES. so the criticism of board game hobbyists simply doesn't apply to them.

@hugocruz2439

5 ай бұрын

Tell me you didn't understand the video without telling me you didn't understand the video

We were given a game called Brandi Dog, which we haven't played, but it seems to be Ludo, BUT, you also have a hand of cards that you can use to influence your turn. So now you have luck of the roll, and draw, but also decisions to make.

@cogitodesign

3 ай бұрын

This sounds interesting! I haven't seen this one but will have to look out for it! I like examples of games where you can mitigate luck. Thanks for sharing!

I think an important thing to note about this mechanic in games like Ur, Senet, or one of my favourites.. Yutnori, is that the window of possible outcomes is actually rather narrow. Ur being 0-4, Yutnori being 0-5 with a 1/20 chance of a -1 (assuming that half rounded sticks are 50/50) and I assume Senet is similar. Combine this with an equally narrow play space means the randomness it's heavily mitigated. The reason these games have strategy shine through is because the choices are actually meaningful on a scale that small. I believe the bad rap that roll and move gets is purely from the Monopoly era family games. The number pools and board layouts are just simply too large to be interesting or allow for decent strategy.

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

This is a good and interesting point thanks for sharing 👍

@skeezaworkan

Жыл бұрын

Also, with a throw of several "coins" with just two sides instead of just one or two 6-sided dice, you can predict the most probable outcome and prepare yopurself.

I'm loving this channel! Very informative and thoughtful content. Thanks!

@cogitodesign

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much, we really appreciate you taking the time to say so!

one way i worked around this was by changing how you use the results of the dice. you roll 2, then can either use one die, the other, both added together, or one subtracted from the other (sometimes even being able to move backwards). still luck based, but adds choice into it for strategy

@cogitodesign

3 ай бұрын

This sounds like a great solution! Anything that gives back player agency and turns it from a post luck to pre luck decision is going to make gameplay more satisfying. Thanks for commenting!

My sense is that calling "roll and move" a single mechanic that includes both Chutes and Ladders (all luck) and Backgammon (pre-luck, substantive strategy especially with the doubling cube) is not particularly useful nomenclature. It's an accurate description of both, but they are so different. I'm also less sure that the pre-luck version is really the default: the roll-and-choose-who-to-move with capture has been used in a ton of games.

@cogitoergomeeple4298

3 жыл бұрын

Yes with over 5000 years of history this mechanic is almost certainly more complex than one name allows. I think the mechanic is fine but it has to match the theme and audience of the game. Too often it was include lazily as a simple to learn center piece for any game

It's an exceptional mechanic especially in games geared to younger players. This was a great video...well done!!

@cogitodesign

3 ай бұрын

Aw thanks very much, I really appreciate your kind words! Very pleased you enjoyed it ☺

Thank you for this video, it was a really interesting watch. Loved seeing Philosophia: Floating world on the video, looks beautiful and cannot wait for my copy to arrive.

@cogitodesign

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, we're really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video and liked the Floating World content! Thanks so much for your support.

Roll and move mechanic still works for many people the same way gambling does -- magical thinking. It's not logical or rational. But for those who think "here comes a good roll", i.e. magical thinking, the ups and downs of good rolls and bad roles is enough for them to get into the game. I personally don't care for that approach, but I can see why others do because there's lots of magical thinking going on in our world today. Which is unfortunately a bit of a problem for humanity.

@cogitodesign

7 ай бұрын

The kind of luck displayed in roll and move is certainly divisive. Personally, I prefer pre luck games but I can see the attraction of post luck games. In many ways, they’re far more popular- just look at all casino games! Thanks for commenting ☺️

One example of terrific and clever use of "roll and move": Games in which player #1 rolls two DIFFERENT dice, say a six sider and a ten sider. Depending on how far away a goal on the board is (close or far), player #1 chooses which die to use to move her piece. The leftover die is used to move a unit or units that move on its/their own to capture player #2's piece. Next turn, player #2 rolls and moves pieces using the same rule. Rinse and repeat. Ye olde Mayfair game "Sanctuary" uses this variation. One die is chosen for the acting player's piece (a thief) and the other is used to move the town guards toward the other player's piece.

@cogitoergomeeple4298

3 жыл бұрын

Yes this is another good way to add some spice to the mechanic.

TATSU (a game very similar to BACKGAMMON) uses the two dice roll and move method of using dice individually for sepertate player piece moves, or combining to move a single piece future. A very tactical game.

@cogitoergomeeple4298

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the heads up! I’ll check it out!

@cogitodesign

3 жыл бұрын

Great example, thanks for sharing!

Very nice video. Great use of knowledge. The game Excape also have a nice twist. It got a push your luck aspect. Can't Stop is also a push your luck roll and move variant.

@cogitodesign

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, we're very pleased to hear you liked the video!

Output randomness is certainly not inherently poor. Tabletop RPGs are chock full of it. I think Roll & Move is totally fine as long as it's not so simple as Snakes & Ladders (but even then, as you point out, it is a useful mechanic for kids etc).edit: oops I meant output randomness lol!

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting 👍

Amazing. Congratulations.

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment, much appreciated and glad to hear you enjoyed the video!

I've often joked about designing a board game called "Roll and Move" that would have a basic roll and move mechanism, but there would be several subgames of different board game genres and the spaces you land on in the "roll and move" would tell you which subgame you take your turn in next. It's probably too conceptual to work but I'd play it if someone made it.

@cogitodesign

6 ай бұрын

Sounds interesting!! I’d play it too 🙌

@hugocruz2439

5 ай бұрын

You just described mario party

thanks for this video. very informative

@cogitodesign

9 ай бұрын

No worries at all, I’m pleased you found it informative 👍 More to come soon!

I just found this Channel and I absolutely love the hyperbolic humor

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

Thanks v much! 😆

Love the vid! I will definitely add it to my next game because players will also be given other decisions instead of movement and you can win without even moving one space forward.

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

Really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video, thanks so much for commenting and good luck with your game design!

Yeah great video great call out to so many games fair play on the amount of research

@cogitoergomeeple4298

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! We love playing games so the research is one of the best parts of making these videos!

As a hobbyist, I did this mod: "Blood Rage Lite". It's awesome and free and it's designed by a genuine engineer gamer with no constraints but fun! Get it, for free, from BGG's Blood Rage file section.

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

Good to know, thanks so much and cheers for commenting!

Even Hasbro themselves are aware of the pain of classic Monopoly and release new versions either make fun of the classic game (like in the case of Cheaters Edition or Monopoly For Sore Losers) or try to improve upon it. Monopoly Builder for example uses much of the same mechanics as the original but adds Catan-esque resource management, building and trading systems. Or Monopoly Fortnite Edition (yes, really), which adds elements of push your luck and survival as players try to outwit one another by placing traps while attempting to avoid a "storm" which slowly swallows up the board.

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

These sound like interesting developments, thanks for commenting! I have to say, I'm probably a little biased against the game so I haven't tried many of the modern versions but the way you've described them makes me feel like I should give them a go! Thanks again!

I design pretty simple abstract games. I haven't made a roll and move yet but I did have an idea for it. The plan was to use the maximum dice roll as a basis for the turn, and then use the role itself to divide the max number into two different usable numbers. Basically if you rolled 2d6 and got a 7, your move would be 7 spaces but then you would get 5 points towards another mechanic. It gives you all the benefits and simplicity of roll and move but gives you more to work with that any new player can understand. Plus, It's inherently self balancing. You can also just use the dice individually, use different colors, or even different types of dice. Monopoly would probably be a lot more interesting if you rolled a 5, and then a 2, instead of just a 7. I've been thinking about designing a very simplistic BattleTech type miniature game on a hex map that uses Several of these ideas. Something like this.. You roll 3d6, a D4, and a red D6. Each basic D6 is a number of spaces you can move in a straight line. The D4 tells you how many times you can reorient yourself in between these movements. And, the red D6 would be shooting your gun or something. This seems incredibly simplistic but it actually gives you a lot more variety than "your piece can move 7 squares".

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

This is a great example of turning the mechanism from one of post luck to one of pre luck. The die rolls are random but are only the beginning. Once rolled, the player is given agency to make strategic choices based on their roll. Let us know how the game develops it sounds really cool!

@dallassegno

Жыл бұрын

oh my goash i am using this

@VagabondTE

Жыл бұрын

@@dallassegno please do.. especially for hex games. They always boil down to a range of movement rather than types of moves like chess. It's the limitations we add to game moves that make them more interesting.

@christ9359

Жыл бұрын

Nice job thinking outside of the box, rather than bowing to conventional wisdom. I hope I come across one of your games someday.

Nicely researched and very informative thank you! Perhaps a more general point is that we should not necessarily evaluate mechanisms by some of their more prevalent or popular applications, but instead by their core characteristics. In this case, output randomness is not necessarily a defining feature of the roll and move mechanism and in fact if we consider some of the old classical games (backgammon, etc.)--as you have done in this explainer--then we see that roll and move can have a lot of strategic and tactical gameplay applications. Even BGG's description of the mechanism--which I believe is based on Engelstein and Shalev's book--corrects this "it's all luck" assumption. I am curious which is your favorite roll and move game? I'm interested in trying some of the racing games you mentioned. I don't have a great racing game in my collection so need to find a good one!

@cogitoergomeeple4298

2 жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree more, the mechanic has certainly gotten a bad reputation from how it's been used in games but that doesn't make it a bad mechanic fundamentally. Personally I love backgammon having played it since I was a kid so guess that is my favourite roll and move game but that is a large part down to sentimentality of playing it with my dad as well as the game itself being good. Recently we've been playing a bit of Deep Sea Adventure which is a fun push your luck game and is super cheap to pick up and try. For racing games Formula D is a classic but may be a little dated now.

@rahawala

2 жыл бұрын

@@cogitoergomeeple4298 thank you!

i would add the new & restored key to the kingdom, a roll & move that mitigates the luck of dice.

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment! I haven't played that game, will have to check it out!

I actually made a roll and move game. But there were some changes i made to add choice. First players can move up to tge amount rolled sometimes they want to move less spaces. Secondly the board is a maze. Players dont know where their goal is. So they must attempt to create a mental map of the board or watch others and remember how they move through the map. Finally players dont have one set path so they must decide which path is the best for their solution. I also incoperated strong cordination and negotiation with other players and its a fun time

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

I like the added choices you've integrated - sounds like a lot of fun! Thanks for sharing ☺

@coocoo3336

Жыл бұрын

@@cogitodesign its called scp the board game if your interested

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

@@coocoo3336 Great, I’ll check it out ☺️ Thanks!

This is it! this is the final key for The Dracula by Bram Stoker Game. I'm using this mechanics with a super twist because I believe in your final recommendations. It's simple and fun and super easy to teach. Game designers needs more imagination and creativity. Great video. Thanks!

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome, I'm looking forward to hearing about the super twist on this mechanic! Thanks as always for your support ☺️ I hope your designing is going well!

@ellibrodedracula

2 жыл бұрын

@@cogitodesign I hope it meets your expectations. See you soon

High rolls must not rule, and low rolls must not suck.

Always a pleasure to watch « old videos » from the time I didn’t even know you existed 😊 Hope to play again with you soon !

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for your support! For sure! 🙏

@Nixx_BoardGames

2 жыл бұрын

@@cogitodesign Your videos are very inspiring, actually I think I'll record a podcast about the subject of this one. I'll make sure I mention your work :)

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

@@Nixx_BoardGames Wow, I'm flattered thanks so much! A podcast on this sounds awesome 👍 Make sure to share the link with me and I can share it on our social media 🙌

My game uses this as its main mechanic but lets the player chose how many spaces to move. The number one gets with the dice is only the max amount of spaces one can move in that turn. Its up to each player if they want to advance all the allowed spaces or stop at some point.

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

That's a nice way to give players some more choice in the game 👍 Thanks for commenting!

damn, I've been looking for a video game toolkit but for board games channel, and I think I've found it, thanks for the interesting video Edit: oh and sub

@cogitodesign

Ай бұрын

Really pleased to hear you're enjoying our content! Thanks so much for your comment ☺

this is intriguing for sure. I have made my own version of the board game "RISK", and one feature I added was that after you have captured a continent, (we use money now as one-form of currency) you can pay $200 from your Defense Fund to choose a group of armies (minimum of 10) that are located on that continent and place a "special forces" token beside them to declare they are an exclusive "special forces" unit. Which means during combat, they are given an advantage with the dice during either the "attack" phase, or when they are being "attacked" by rolling two 12 sided dice and one 6 - sided die.

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

It sounds really interesting! I like it when relatively simple games have added layers of complexity to increase thematic immersion. It sounds like that does this well! Thanks for sharing ☺

Rajas definitely doesn't contain roll & move, at least not anything close to the traditional definition. I think it would be misleading if it was included in the list of game mechanisms.

Based on the criteria outlined Settlers of Catan is Roll and Move, but the overwhelming consensus is that it is a fun game with a certain degree of freshness (freshness in regard to longer lived games like Monopoly or Candyland). Good video!

@legobil_

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, calling Catan a roll and move really stretches its definition as only 16,66% of rolls “moves” the robber charatcter 😅

@MrBrianb1066

2 жыл бұрын

@@legobil_ the definition given was a die is rolled and an effect happens. The robber is the most literal interpretation, but taking your resources or building is still considered "move."

@KnightMirkoYo

2 жыл бұрын

In Catan all players are experiencing the effects of the roll simultaneously, and the extent of the effect has been decided by each player beforehand. Some luck is involved, but it's mostly calculation.

Formula D is good modern game with roll and move as a main mechanic

@cogitodesign

6 ай бұрын

That’s an excellent example! I think they do a really good job of adding in player agency to dice rolls by using dice with a range of side numbers 👍

5:20 "Snakes and ladders if you're [British]": No! It's the other way around, "chutes" only used if you're afflicted by being 'murrican. It was a word chosen by a puritan American publisher (Milton Bradley in 1943) who objected to "snakes" that put the devil in mind (the Garden of Eden and all that). All other western languages have "snakes".

@cogitodesign

19 күн бұрын

That’s interesting, I didn’t know that! Thanks for your comment ☺

agreed

The one thing more prevalent to "fun" in board games is player interaction via a common play area. Pre luck, or roll and move, is generally bad but in games like Deepsea adventure or Formula D it's the changing game state that gives agency. Snakes and ladders, or monopoly (but not goose chase) it doesn't matter where other players are. There is no interaction at all. At least in monopoly you have half the time a choice to buy or not to buy. In catan, there's even less of that. The earliest post luck game is probably backgammon (or ur but the rules on ur are so vague I can't consider it a board game).

@cogitodesign

2 ай бұрын

Yes I agree, Deep sea adventure in particular is a great use of the mechanism. One thing that stands out there is how quick games are, I think randomness gets more frustrating the longer a game lasts. Thanks for your comment.

@kosterix123

2 ай бұрын

@@cogitodesign Interaction is key.

Chip Theory games has released burncycle at the time of this comment. The game has roll and move, but the way it is implemented is quite unique. Players are given an amount of power for their robot they are controlling, and their power represents their dice pool. In order to perform actions (move, access terminals, open doors etc) the bots must allocate AP, which is done by choosing a number of dice (based on their power and upgraded dice they have unlocked). The player needs to split these dice between several actions during their turn, adding an element of resource management. The basic dice have blank sides, which can either be combined with another to gain a 1 result or saved for a future role, where any dice with a value rolled is used even if the value is in excess. So lower value dice have some value over the upgraded dice, and you can guarantee results when you need to, or you can try and get exactly what you need and risk not hitting the action but getting rewarded if you do. There is also a secondary bot that needs to have AP assigned to it, which gives another place where actions need to be assigned while also giving a place to spend excess rolled results. It's an interesting take on roll and move, because it is less about the movement- players will generally have plenty of movement to do whatever they need. It is more a mechanic designed to facilitate resource management and have a small element of push your luck that can be used in a pinch.

@cogitoergomeeple4298

2 жыл бұрын

I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but that does sound like a really interesting twist on the mechanism! Thanks for sharing, I'll have to check it out!

Ludo is goated

forbidden

3:04 This seems very similar to the game Hounds and Jackals we all saw being played by Sethi and Nefertiri near the beginning of "The Ten Commandments." Do you know anything about that game? I'm very curious about it.

@cogitodesign

5 ай бұрын

Hi and thanks for your comment ☺I'm not sure what game they were playing I'm afraid but it sounds interesting. Will have to look into that! Thanks again for commenting and Merry Christmas!

I think snakes and ladders isn't a post luck mechanic. It is just simply luck.

I can't agree with geoff engelstein here. I think the mechanic is inherently bad if it's purely randomness. It's not even that you make a choice and randomness determines the outcome or randomness determines your choices so it's neither input or output randomness it's just pure randomness. I think some mechanics are inherently bad and making some interesting design choices will likely end with a game still worse than it could have been using better mechanics I should clarify if you only have one pawn it's inherently bad . Otherwise you. Have an element of choice

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

I have to say in some ways I'm inclined to agree with you. It is a mechanic that we have seen done badly so many times so whenever I see it has been put in a game my initial thought is that it is most probably a mistake. That being said, I feel like with a few adaptations there could be a way of using the mechanic thematically but it would have to be done in a game where randomness thematically makes sense. It's not roll and move but the push your luck mechanic from Deep Sea Adventure comes pretty close to this I think. Thanks for your comment!

@zmollon

2 жыл бұрын

@@cogitodesign well I feel bad that I commented what I did because the rest of your video dealt with some of what I said pretty well. Dice can be exciting but I can lead to some feels bad moments when an opponent with only the faintest chance managed to hit in undaunted for example. Still I loved this discussion of the mechanic, the new things I learned about the history of board games, and some new options to consider. Thank you

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

@@zmollon Thanks so much, I’m really appreciating your thoughtful comments and ideas. I love discussing board games with fellow enthusiasts!

Any mechsnic is lame if it does no MAKE SENSE. For example, during combat you plan, but self performance under stress does not always work as planned. Rolling dice is appropriate. This is why Battletech works so well. Positioning is deterministic, firing has randomness. If you drive a car and you plan to turn left or accelerate, it is almost certain your car will react as planned. So using a card with deterministic outcome makes sense. This us why dice rolling in Formula D is outperformed by card decisioning in Downforce. Sometimes dice automation makes sense. In Rebellion base box, strategy is done by players but tactical combat is automated using dice. In the expansion they added player cards to add a certain level of tactical decision. If you see "how about baseball" it is a dice automation game of baseball. It can be fixed by using rock paper scissors to see if batter succeeds in achieving contact. Rock paper scissors is the best mechanism for a duel between player. This mechanism can be expressed in many ways. In Battletech, mechs are a trade off between firepower, speed and armor. So by facing a mech with one design vs another mech with a different design, you are having a rock paper scissors implied in that mech design. The "I cut you choose" mechanic is a glorified name for rock paper scissors where no one has guaranteed victory. The design trade off of Battletech is also rock paper scissors. Roll and move only makes sense if you model how a butterfly flies and positions itself. Some people may like it. Some will not. For example, make chess to have random teleports that serve as ejection seats. Chess players will hate it as it adds luck to a game where skill to achieve a deterministic outcome is the appeal of the game. The whole point is the MAKE SENSE topic. With thematic games, it is clear. But with ludic games it seems roll and move in Monopoly where you charge money based on where people fall, is more a game about setting a trap to catch flies. One player is the fly and the other is setting a trap. So both players compete to see who screws the other better. I do not find it appealing. But probably some people do.

@cogitodesign

9 ай бұрын

I agree that matching mechanisms to what is actually supposed to be happening thematically is really important. You give some really good examples of this.

Backgammon uses roll and move for thousands of years and it's one of the deepest abstract strategy board games in existence. So, IMO, it's not a bad mechanic at all. Just modern designers lost their thouch how to use it correctly.

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, I don’t think there are such things as bad mechanisms, just bad ways to use them. Backgammon is a good example as I think pre-luck mixed with roll and move can be quite an effective combo.

my game is roll to attack

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

This sounds interesting, would love to hear more about this! Thanks for commenting!

What is the game seen in the intro?

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

Rajas of the Ganges! A great dice rolling/ worker placement game set in historic India. When you roll your dice you assign them to different actions so there’s that element of agency rather than just luck. I’d recommend playing it for sure! Here’s the link to the game on BGG: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/220877/rajas-ganges

Great channel. So I like roll & move. A lot of my favorite games include it: Monopoly, Talisman, HeroQuest, Clue, just to name a few. I unashamedly defend Monopoly as a great classic. Why? People who hate it probably are not playing using the rules. The game isn't that long usually, maybe an hour or hour 1/2. Play by the rules as printed, don't put money on free parking and all that nonsense. To criticize Monopoly's dice mechanic is to criticize dice mechanics as a whole, or games with luck factors. You can have a bad run and not hit properties, but that doesn't happen all too often. You could introduce homebrew rules by dealing out a number of properties to players to make things more balance if need be. I think people are just mad because they are not good and striking deals and they lengthen Monopoly by hours by using free parking as a lotto, which ruins the game.

@cogitodesign

7 ай бұрын

I completely agree- the house rules are a major problem with people’s enjoyment with Monopoly. I understand and appreciate your position. If you’re interested in the game, I put together a series of videos on the history of the game, why people love it/hate it etc. It’s called ‘Terrible Game or Timeless Classic?’. Here’s the link: kzread.info/dash/bejne/kYqblsuBgKrWd5c.htmlsi=9GqAj4VJpwWKuFGN Thanks so much for commenting 😊

@akacaleb

Ай бұрын

Yes! I love monopoly and once I taught my gaming group how to play it RAW it became a favorite. Not putting properties up for auction if a player passes on buying kills the speed of play.

@jshepherd1102

Ай бұрын

@@akacaleb the auction part is a lot of fun, players getting into bidding wars.

@akacaleb

Ай бұрын

@@jshepherd1102 yup! And makes people spend money.

Allow player to statically move 3 spaces or rolling a D6. Solved.

what about Risk? or D&D?

@cogitodesign

5 ай бұрын

Yes both of these use post luck and dice rolling very effectively 👍 Thanks for commenting!

Candyland isn't exactly roll and move. And it is easily fixed by having more than one card.

@cogitodesign

2 ай бұрын

Fair enough, it’s been a while since I looked at the rules to that game!

Great video. Tho it sounds like you are talking in a hollow space. A bit disturbing. Other than that... nice. :)

@cogitoergomeeple4298

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, yes we’ve just got a new mic and we’re still working through the kinks!

At first I was thinking, "oh good pre-luck and post-luck should be much less confusing than the typical terms (input and output randomness" then you went on to use those terms exactly opposite how I intuitively expect. You used "pre-luck" to mean a decision made AFTER the luck happens and "post-luck" to describe a decision made BEFORE the luck happens. Wtf?

roll and move is not nearly a bad as player elimination.

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, I'm not a of player elimination. It's just so unsatisfying when your out of the game early and have to just watch...

@kevin_mitchell

Жыл бұрын

And Monopoly has both Roll and Move and player elimination, with many knowing the foregone conclusion of their own impending elimination, and just go through the motions of mortgaging more and more properties wishing for their boredom and agony to end as quickly as possible.

I think it’s fine but only if there’s other choices or inputs u can do to either manipulate the dice or actions you can do afterwards or between roles to have some form of skill or tactics and not just luck. For example snakes and ladders is the worst game of all time imo it’s only purpose is to introduce the dice rolling mechanic to kids

@cogitodesign

10 ай бұрын

I agree completely! Mitigation can change the luck factor and make it feel much more input randomness rather than output randomness-based. It's not my go-to mechanism when designing but I think it can be used effectively. Thanks for your comment!

I completely disagree on one point. A game that is hazardous as a main mechanic is deeply unfair. It's literally the idea. Some will advance, others not, stuff happens, then one player wins because of complete randomness. Luck is profoundly unfair. The nature of advantaging some and not others is profoundly antagonist to justice, equality, and fairness. For that reason, and maybe the fact that luck and life are against me, I have been made hating board games as a whole, even to the point of hating TTRPGs like D&D which have a deep tendency of rulelawyer railroadery, while it was my hobby and passion at the time. I had a bad experience with one guy of this type. Because of this I have almost left games at all, while I was only lacking of narrative, fair games which I didn't knew existed back then. Thought it was important to say. Nature is profoundly NOT just, NOT equal, and NOT fair. Making someone win because of their random characteristics is purely evil. It should be a crime. But I guess thats just my outcast / misfit pov in life.

Snake & ladder isn't a proper game imho. Snake & ladder is as interactive as Bingo or slot machines.

@cogitodesign

2 жыл бұрын

Fair point! I can see the attraction to very young children though. I guess it depends on the definition of a game. I find it interesting to think that 2 computers could play snake and ladders endlessly just by generating random numbers!

There's no such things as not allowed in game design, only people who think they know better telling you how you should be designing games. I have created a roll and move game that is very popular with "new" gamers. The game design world needs to beware of groupthink and only catering to a certain type of gamer. My two cents.

@cogitoergomeeple4298

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed, how have you used the mechanic in your design?

@DanielHCassidy

3 жыл бұрын

Following. That was a pretty bold statement. I am intrigued to see what you came up with.

what up its your boy comment

@zuperdooper

2 жыл бұрын

Ayooooo

It is over used.

Unfavored? One reason: monopoly. I don't care if others don't "join the hobby" or not. If many keep associating boardgames with dull roll & move monopoly: oh, well. Their loss. To each their own as it doesn't harm anyone. Only with high stakes gambling and associated addiction or ignoring house chores might be traditional reasons to exit gaming. (Or some personal reasons between one & whomever.) If others judge, that's more on them. Making games with sole purpose to reach larger audience risks making less interesting games as production potentially tilts towards "units sold". Many a licensed game off some pop icon have failed miserably over the yrs. Sorry. Mention of "expanding the hobby" triggers me, I guess. Who cares if others judge. But definitely do your house work & spend time with your family (if you're one whose gaming doesn't include your sig other or kids). Maybe the Splotter folks will do a roll & move someday?

@cogitodesign

Жыл бұрын

I agree, the majority of games I play certainly don't appeal to a wide audience. However, I'm very much enjoying seeing the tabletop game market increase in size over the last decade. Not least because it means I have more people to play with! Thanks for your comment.