7:16 Use water between the film and board. Then use something like a credit card to squeegee out the water for much better film/board contact. The water is a lot easier to remove than the tiny air bubbles. You can apply the water as a spray or submerge the whole board and film in water, it doesn't mater which way. I've done both several times. I use a paper towel between the iron and film. I actually use the same paper towel I used to clean the rest of the water off after applying the film. I fold this paper towel in half so there are 2 layers between the iron and film. I also have a few layers of paper towel under the board. Under all of this I have a small piece of wooden particle board. You want to isolate the heat from the countertop surface so that the heat goes where you want it, on the board/film, not into your countertop/heatsink. I have found that the temperature of the iron is important for a good etch. It's easy to overheat the film. If you see or feel any texture on the film after heating, you've overheated the film. I prefer to use a travel/vacation iron. They don't have steam holes and they have a smooth coating that makes it easier to apply pressure and slide around. I have the temperature I like marked on the iron adjustment dial. While not really helpful to others, the temperature setting I use is between low and medium, but closer to medium. With a lower temperature setting and setup like this I apply a lot more pressure and I heat the film for around 3 to 5 minutes to apply it. I do this temperature/pressure after watching a guy demonstrate how he used a vulcanized heat press and how he explained it. I also noticed your Chinese film looked low quality like mine (inconsistent/blotchy/kinda wrinkled). I just ordered some Dupont Riston film a little over a week ago. I've heard really good things about it. I also got some Dynamask solder mask film to try. I want to compare the Chinese stuff to the Dupont Riston to see how different they are. Ultimately photo-tool films have a lot more variables to deal with and are a lot more difficult to dial in than ink transfers but they have a lot more potential. If anyone is looking for copper clad and especially if they are in the USA look up the seller ABCfab on eBay (no affiliation). They sell great quality product and note that they sell in imperial sizes. Why does the size matter? Because they sell products that look like they are around the same price as cheap Chinese copper clad. It's not. For instance, a 12in × 18in size is essentially a 20cm × 30cm board. ABCfab has better pricing than the Chinese junk when you compare in to cm. Why is it Chinese "junk?" I have seen really inconsistent results from the Chinese clad I've received from 3 different sellers. It seems like there is contamination inside the copper itself. I've cleaned my boards with every combo possible from lacquer thinner to acetone to alcohol and used everything from steel wool to scotchbrite to sandpaper. I painted cars for years, so I know how to prep a surface as a pro. Still I've had lots of blotchy spots visible in the copper near the end of the etch. Also it's really easy to over expose film. I use transparencies and the sun right now. I live by the coast in southern California, in a high UV intensity area. Between 12pm and 4pm the Chinese film is fully exposed within 1 minute on a clear day. Anyone looking for more references, I have a publicly listed playlist of other people's content about PBC Fabrication. It is intended as my own personal reference but it has a lot of really interesting ideas. If anyone is interested in building a UV light, don't make the same mistake as me. The film is supposed to have ~365nm UV light. The cheap UV LEDs are around 400nm. They will still expose the film but I've had trouble with trace resolution using 100 LEDs setup with a current source driving them at essentially 17mA each. At night that light can make stuff in my front yard glow around 50 feet away. It's super bright, but the sun has proven to be a more consistent UV exposure source in my experience. If you need sodium carbonate (not baking soda- that's sodium bicarbonate and doesn't work), many big box stores sell sodium carbonate as a type of laundry detergent or as a laundry additive. It's really cheap this way. I actually put mine in a retired coffee bean grinder to get the grain size smaller so it dissolves faster. This also needs to go into distilled water for developing the film if you want consistent results. You can also make your own enchant using Hydrocloric acid and hydrogen peroxide. I saved several uploads in my playlist about this. Most home improvement stores sell Hydrocloric acid as "Muriatic acid" to clean concrete. Hydrogen peroxide is sold at all pharmacies. The channel NurdRage details how to make your own enchants. If you really want to be spontaneous and do stuff right away, you'll find a sheet of copper clad in about 1/3 of all laptop/printer power bricks. It is used for shielding. Sand off the solder mask with 600grit sandpaper or finer and you have the ability to make your own board today. Thanks for the upload. I added this one to my PCB Fabrication playlist as well. I haven't seen anyone try this 3d printer method yet either ;) -Jake

@ELECTRONOOBS

5 жыл бұрын

Damn, this is a long comment. Thanks for all the tips!

@UpcycleElectronics

5 жыл бұрын

@@ELECTRONOOBS Sorry if the length offends anyone. These are just the things off the top of my head that I've mentally noted, and haven't seen anyone explain on YT so far. You or anyone else is more than welcome to take these ideas and make content about them. If I decide to create an upload about this in the future, these are some of the details I will try to communicate. Ultimately we're all part of a community with a common interest. This was some of what I've learned so far, but I'm always learning and always interested in expanding my knowledge. I just want to be open and share with anyone that is looking to do the same ;) -Jake

@SidneyCritic

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it looked like there was more of a problem applying the film than exposing it on the printer.

@VuLamDang

5 жыл бұрын

long comment = awesome, never sorry for your length ;)

@Channelinventor

5 жыл бұрын

Welcome my friends Please subscribe to the Inventor Channel kzread.info/dron/BNMe17jOz7OCwMVLt2yThA.html

Wow. You really push the envelope. Well done!! The resolution you are getting is good enough for front panels, electro etching and electro machining. Keep up the great work!

i was waiting someone to post about this method long time ago, great job my friend

JLC PCB would not be happy with this weeks project

@WahyuEkoRomadhon

5 жыл бұрын

Hahaaaaa

@UpcycleElectronics

5 жыл бұрын

Actually, most of their best hobby level customers also etch our own prototype boards. I want to test many parts of a design before I order everything as a complete board. I want to keep the bodge wires on the one-off home etched designs. So far I also find lots of stuff I want to improve after my first etch and build. It would suck to have 10 boards, and regret the design. I have learned a lot from the limitations of home etching too. I alter lots of default specs in EDA software as a result of the experience. Ultimately that helps me to create designs that are a breeze for a board house to make. Things like trace widths, much larger pad sizes and shapes, along with teardrop trace transitions all make for an easy etch that they do not need to modify much at all in order to accommodate their equipment. -Jake

@KeithOlson

5 жыл бұрын

Why would they care? Yes, it is super handy to be able to test a layout only hours after you design it, but there are a number of obvious limitations to fabbing PCB's at home, and getting it done professionally is *ALWAYS* the best way to go eventually.

@FathinLuqmanTantowi

5 жыл бұрын

no they will handle the next 100pcb made after this project

@curtkeisler7623

Жыл бұрын

I don't think this is any competition for PCL

Hi guys. If you want to help my projects: www.patreon.com/ELECTRONOOBS Thank you very much, enjoy!

Nice! If you added some kind of positioning jig with registration pins, and put a pair of matching holes in the PCB, you should be able to do double-sided exposures no problem!

Really cool idea, thank you for sharing your exploration of this technique!

I use rivers for vias when I make PCBs at home. The key to alignment is to drill the holes for the vias first and then aligning the layers is easy because the holes tell you where to place everything, but with this method I would make a job at places the pcb on your printer in the exact same position and then you’re able to flip the board and it would still have the same position but just be upside down

Nice. For a 2 layer board just buy some really thin single sided copper clad boards and do 2 separate boards. When done drill your corner holes and use those as alignment. Glue them back to back with super glue or epoxy and put them under a weight.

Estas a otro nivel tio , que buena idea !!!!

for the doublelayer board, try making the two layers side by side on a single layer copper clad. Then cut the two boards using the board outline and align them. You can then drill manually and install the vias. If you can find thin copper clads for this, it'll work even better.

Ingenious use of a DLP printer.

It's sort of obvious but really nobody wrote or vlogged about it yet... Genius!

For double sided PCB you could make a flip jig and integrate it to the resin vat mounting point, which is IMHO is fairly repeatable on its own

@davemould4638

2 жыл бұрын

A flip jig would need to be set up with its axis *exactly* over the center line of the LCD image, and also the image of each side will have to be in exactly the same place on the LCD screen. See my earlier post about using ficucials and two stiff wires to position the PCB second side accurately. Another way would be to drill two holes in the PCB at an accurate distance apart and outside of the circuit area before exposing. Put cross-hairs on the design the same distance as the drilled holes. You can then look through the holes to get them exactly over the cross-hairs on the LCD image.

Amazing idea, and i think for 2 layers PCB you can first with CNC add a center Holes, and in that way you can align the two layers.

They are not DLP-printers. They are LCD-based. DLP would requite them to use a micromirror-device.

That is an effing brilliant idea!

Very ingenious use of a UV DLP printer. What you really need to do is find a resin that will stick to copper then you could just invert the image and print the mask directly onto the board without the UV film!

@wgm-en2gx

5 жыл бұрын

I guess you wouldn't invert it. Just print the resin where you want the copper. Two challenges would be getting the resin to stick and then removing it after etching. Only a matter of time that someone figures this out or a manufacturer makes a resin for this..

@antcam007

3 жыл бұрын

@@wgm-en2gx That is a good idea, although you need a way to remove the resin protecting the copper so you can later solder components. The acetone may dissolve the resin and the copper under it (or not?). You could also use only a copper foil, and build the board with 3d UV resin on its back using the 3d printing process, including any holes needed, recesesweird or hard to cut contours... many possibilities ! You could make multilevel or double faced boards! You could inmerse after component mounting to protect from humidity!

dang you are literally engraving the pcb's , nice , good to know i can make pcb's with a skill i know

Very nice job.

I was thinking of this , before watching your video was going to make my own version of it then saw this video

luv u electronobs

Useful video 👍 Excellent 👍

Great idea. I like it much. If I just had such a printer.....

Genius! That is a great result! I wonder if it would be better if you used a board where the film is already applied.

Thanks for the insight

regarding 2 layer you can make a jig to ensure the board is properly aligned, a simple set of 4 holes in the corners of the board onto a 3d printed holder that mounts over the lcd so its always in the same place.

Good idea.!!!

As I'm waiting for my first LCD SLA printer to arrive, I happened across this video, WOW! Very good work my friend. I shall try this method for 2 sided, but CNC drilling first maybe. The key for double layer accuracy will be in your ability to positively locate the PCB on a flip in X or Y axis. With scratch engrave method on my i3 clone (high modify) i am able to achieve reliable 0.5mm tracks, VIA's 1.2mm, and 2 layer positional accuracy of +/-0.25mm. I use ethernet cable wires for my 0.6mm VIAs and picture hanging wire from home improvement store (1.0mm) for power transfer VIAs, both performing riveting method then solder the VIAs both sides for perfect 2 sided PCB at home.

Nice project. Shouldn’t you clean and remove oil and dirt from the copper plates first before sticking on the tape?

μπραβο πολυ καλη δουλεια

Super underrated video

This needs to be a commercial product specifically for PCBs

I guess you could etch one side, drill corner holes - maybe larger so you can center it accurately -, line the PCB up on the image on the printer through the holes, tape down stops to locate the PCB so it gets returned to the same position each time, and do the exposure for the other 2nd side.

thats very impressive

This was an amazing video tutorial. I will definitely be using this method to make PCBs when I finally get a SLA printer. I have used the photo resist method before but getting the pattern onto the board is always a problem. I settled for printing on a transparent sheet. Unfortunately I have to have this done for me because I dont have a printer that will print on this material. That's added cost.

@darkshadowsx5949

4 жыл бұрын

dont use this method save yourself some time and download fusion 360. fuck blender. fuck SVG files. design the board in F360's new board designer with auto tracing and other great features. push to 3D and export trace bodies as STL directly to your slicer.

This is a very nice project, and a nice advancement to the art of making pcbs at home. Congratulations! >Charlie

Hi! Great result! But how do you fix the lanes? With thin copper wire and an insulating compound, or do you use wire that is already insulated? Or is there a better solution?

Another etchant is vinegar + a tablespoon of hydrogen peroxide + a pinch of salt. It takes an hour or so, but works well (especially if you warm it up in the microwave). The advantage being that many people already have these. Strictly speaking, the ionic copper solution that is left over is not safe to dispose of down the drain, regardless of your etchant. You can drop in some common aluminum foil to precipitate the metallic copper - the resulting solution is pretty harmless and metallic copper is much safer to dispose of.

So i'm using a very similar method to etch some nickle silver. I'm having issues washing off the unmasked film. When the plate goes in the sodium carbonate, it melts in second as you indicate, though while gently rubbing the unmasked area off, all my masked areas wash off too -, its in the sodium chloride literally seconds. i'm not rubbing hard, i'm not leaving it in there forever, i've attempted this 10+ times now and the masked areas just wash off

Like it, keep it up, nice video clip, thank you for sharing it :)

I stumbled onto this cause I had a similar idea today and have a similar printer. Something im curious about, have you tried just to print the etch mask onto the board with actual resin (rather than the uv photo resist material)? any results?

I have been looking for a SLA printer for making minis. This is just another reason to get one. although... Ever since jlcpcb became a thing, I don't really etch my own pcb's anymore. I just choose express delivery and have them professionally made.

@Nono-hk3is

5 жыл бұрын

I suspect that EN's method would be very useful for making breakout boards to use for bread boarding with SMT components, but I'd still send out final board designs to be printed professionally.

To make a double layer board using this method you could make a 3d printed bracket that is the exact dimensions of the pcb blanks you buy and have two tabs coming off the sides that attach to the screw posts for the resin vat, It should line up every time that way.

One way I thought to make 2-sided PCBs ... put crosshairs (fiducials) on opposite corners of both sides of the PCB in the design stage. Expose and one side of the PCB so you can see the pattern in the resist (you may have to develop it to see the crosshairs clearly). Now rig up two stiff wires that hang down over the LCD from some fixed point above the LCD (maybe rig up a simple gantry).. Bring up the 2nd side image on the LCD without any board in place, and bend the two wires so that the tips of the wires are exactly over the fiducial marks on the LCD image and about a PCB thickness above the LCD. Now you can use the exposed image on the first side to position the fiducials to be exactly under the wires, then expose the second side.

I learned a great deal from this video! Good work. I just have one question though. I can never find or think of projects. Is there a specific method you use?

@UpcycleElectronics

5 жыл бұрын

You don't have a laundry list of projects to make...on top of what your already working on??? Everything Radio: www.qsl.net/va3iul/Homebrew_RF_Circuit_Design_Ideas/Homebrew_RF_Circuit_Design_Ideas.htm Basics: www.talkingelectronics.com (Start with the free 1-100 Transistor Circuits PDF and the 101-200 2nd part) Check my publicly listed playlists. They are my own personal reference but it's there for anyone that's interested in similar stuff. Assuming your looking to create YT content, you should have ideas for projects based on what you are intrested in and are having difficulty learning about or haven't seen good content about. Make content based on what you search for but can't find information about on KZread, then learned, and successfully mastered.

if you select 2.5x size when exporting its no wonder it becomes to big, SVG files are vector files and should not lose resolution by the size. Tried using 1x for the SVG show in the printer ?

Probablemente pudiese funcionar también algo parecido con la solder mask y además también creo que sería posible ponerle la silk screen,

@winsrrow8125

5 жыл бұрын

Además para centrado de la placa para poder hacer doble cara precisas es posible que te viniese bien el que la placa en blanco a hacer fuese de exactamente el mismo tamaño que el cristal, y al darle la vuelta hacerle la simetría en cuanto a desplazamiento. Ej, si lo pones en la esquina inferior derecha, al darle la vuelta la placa quedará en la esquina superior derecha. Teniendo eso en cuenta creo que podrían salirte unas buenas placas a doble cara, espero ver el video pronto. Ah, por favor, duele ver el exceso de placa a la que le retiras el cobre... Si le pasas un permanente por el exterior de la placa no la corroe y cuando la cortes puedes reutilizar ese trozo para cualquier otro proyecto, además, compuestos más simples de conseguir para el atacado químico de la placa son el hcl junto con h2o2 de 110vol (es decir salfuman y agua oxigenada de peluquería) mezcla al 50/50 y rebajar con agua normal hasta el punto de atacado que se desee. Almenos asi las hago yo. Un saludo desde valencia.

can you mix epoxy metallic powder with uv resin and will it work in DLP/SLA printer with metallic prints?

Awesome

Sir, when will you finish the quad project?... The one having just the motors and no gear attached...

aawwwweeeeeeesssssooooommmmeeeeeee 😍✌

To use SVG files directly, I should think you would need to set your board outline size to the exact size of the printer LCD. Most small format monochrome SLA displays are 1620 x 2560 pixels giving a size of 82.620mm x 130.560mm. Try it and see if that does the trick ...

Awesome hack!!!

Nice demonstration,but problem is how to expose minutes to photo sensitive film expose?

That's cool. I got a new high resolution 3d Printer. Being this is 5 years old video. I keen to see how fine prints I get with this printer.

Interesting! What about DLP vs photolith method?

BTW, on a related note, Applied Science has a recent video looking at how to print circuits onto 3D printed objects. That work is still a bit experimental and labor intensive.

Good job! Can anybody tell me if this will work with the Anycubic Photon Mono 4k printer? I am new to 3D printing so I don't have much knowledge yet.

This would be an interesting way to make smd solder paste stencils.

I have had a crazy idea in mind for years for doing pcb quickly. I have never used an sla printer before so this is just an idea. The idea is to put the copper face down in the sla printer as the base where the 3D print would be mounted to. Then simply print the resin onto the copper which is then the acid resist. Then take the pcb out of the sla printer and etch it. The resin becomes the etch resist. No photo material needed. In this way the resist material is quickly put on the pcb with laser precision and the only step now is to etch. No other nasty chemicals needed. Can this work????

150ml of hidrogen-peroxide + 20g of lemon acid(from any supermarket) + 5g of solt. Use that for etching. It's fast, cheap and axcesible.

@matijalekovic339

5 жыл бұрын

@HalfSpeedMastering l use 3%

Can you show us how can we make solder mask for our pcbs

I bet if you 3D Printed a 'holder' that would fit a common size of copper clad board... or even just one you can find a lot of--print out a new holder for each new size of board you want to double side. I mean it would be a couple of pennies, and how often would you need to buy copper clad board if you bought a significant amount of them... Anyway... So you make a holder, and then if you could 'flip' so the other side of the board, either X or Y flip, and then you would have perfect alignment, with the layer on the other side. You would have to use some component legs as the via's (but, honestly, nobody is doing double sided SMD only stuff) so you can always sneak a little component leg as a via, nobody would notice. I bet that would work great.

@gmsol

5 жыл бұрын

"(but, honestly, nobody is doing double sided SMD only stuff)"

The flsun model s that you say in the video does not exist more. What was the screen resolution of this printer?

By the way, SVG files are vector graphics, so the quality will be the same whether you export 1x or 2.5x size. The printer complains exactly because you chose a larger size, the SVG size only matters for the physical size of things as you can scale a vector graphics file up and down as much as you want without losing quality, so if the printer supports SVG files it will convert it to the highest quality its display can handle.

If the display and driver/software for it were found separately then it would be great.

A SVG-File contains a "render-size". I think by changing those in e.g. Inkscape it could have worked using an SVG

any further developments on this ? very interested :)

Hi can we print negative image of any gerber layer?

curious if you had any followups

you might want to do the holes first if you want to align the second layer : print the first side, do at least 2 holes and flip the board ith the second layer on the "UV screen" aligning on the holes ? maybe use two big holes in the very diagonal of the PCB ?

Great idea! I haven't used a DLP, so I want to make sure I understand what's going on here... DLP works by exposing resin to UV in a manner which causes it to harden according to the STL file. In this case, you didn't fill any resin but instead taped a piece of glass over the resin reservoir? Also, I assume you give the circuit model depth because the DLP expects depth (could this be the real reason that it wouldn't accept the SVG? No depth?). Does the amount of depth have significance? Does it translate to increased dwell time of the UV light on an area, which affects how thoroughly the UV film gets developed? This might be the tipping point that causes me to invest in a DLP.

@davemould4638

2 жыл бұрын

The resin tank is removable and sits directly on top of the LCD panel. So he simply removed the tank and placed the PCB directly on top of the LCD panel. The depth (model height) affects the number of layers printed so is irrelevant in this case - the exposure time of the first layer can be set to the total exposure time needed and the job aborted after the first "layer".

When you opened the SVG in blender it seemed as if you have a fragment to the far bottom left. This might be causing the size issue. Just deleted the unnecessary fragments in Inkscape.

I think that the printer could not render image because in SVG file there is a viewbox attribute that determines the size of the canvas and it was exceeding the pixel size of LCD matrix.

If you had a higher resolution screen you would be it even better results when bored under a microscope is that correct?

When eaching like this I was always tolded to, leave unsed areas with the copper still there (leaving gaps around the tracks) as you got better eaching as the tracks lad less time to be eaten away while you are wait for large areas to be eaten away (I hope you can work out want I am saying)

Why to use a film instead of the regular resin?

Can someone confirm real resolution on the pcb using anycubic photon? I am wobdering if it will be suitable for me.

did you ever try printing the mask on with resin, instead of using the film?

if i want to copy the mechanism when the machine can show the design, what is the keyword? or anybody know how that work, from the design to sd card and then the machine can show the design? thanks

Not sure this works anymore. EasyEDA doesn't make track widths on the SVG file, so it's just a thin line, if you're lucky.

only change is....using DLP to get Desired Circuit ON PCB w.r.t traditional method....still great work👍

What is the resolution of the display??

It is cool! I think you can do it with only the lcd of a cheap car lcd screen and a uv lamp behind, same principle of a lcd video projector.

@Dust599

5 жыл бұрын

for a short while yes, but most lcds get cooked by the uv and don't last long.

@sokauo

5 жыл бұрын

Interesting i didn't know, but here the lcd need a very short period of exposure, i don't know perhaps 10 seconds per pcb. Can it works?

@brunocabral1578

3 жыл бұрын

@@Dust599 but the sla printer already uses a LCD for this... it is supposed to work 1000 hours before replacement.

What will be a maximum size to be print on DLP printer. How much it costs. Where to buy. Please reply.

you only need resin uv printer and copper coated pcb, instead of separate photoresist, use the resin as the photoresist cover for the traces, wash, etch, done

imagine now, with a 8K printer, i gonna try it !

How can you make 2 side with VIA?

Have you tried double layer again?

You should use nail polish to protect the boards from corrosion.

Hola, te animarias a hacer un DLP casero con un proyector usado?

awsme

Photo-etching did it in the 80's. Buy the photo-etch board, all you need is a printer that can print onto acetate, & a UV light.

I use the poor man's method of the transfer. I print in a laser printer the archive in an acetate. Few friendly advices: Clean the virgin PCB with thinner or acetone, and if it a bit rusty, use a sand paper. (In the transfer method) Preheat the PCB with an iron, as hot that you can't touch it. Place the acetate with the face down and secure it with adhesive tape. Put a paper sheet in between the iron and the acetate and start quenching with a moderate force and evenly. Let it cool down and retire everything. Then use the old trusty ferric chloride (FeCl3) And there you have it

Why not to 3d print with filament straight on the board and then etch.

I do not rub the PCB after it has been in the Sodium Carbonate solution for 2 minutes. I just take it out and then run cold water over it and then it is done.

Hola Electronoob y visitantes: Según tu experiencia, cual es la mejor longitud de onda para curar mascara blanca para pcbs ??? pasa que he probado con 365nm y me va perfecto para curar esmalte verde para circuitos, pero el esmalte blanco no cura :S, debo dejarlo muchas horas bajo los 365nm para que cure o bien esperar que sea verano para dejarlo a pleno sol. Pregunto mas que nada para evitar comprar leds o lamparas con longitudes de ondas inservibles que terminen arrumbadas en el ático. Saludos.

Crazy dude has a separate Keyboard for every letter

4 years ago. I'm assuming that isn't a 4k printer? can only imagine how much nicer and more compact boards you can make now. EDIT: yeah, that's 2k. I bet you could make even smaller traces, and therefor smaller boards with a 4k.