Congratulations to the F22 pilot on the kill! But it’s still going to be a little weird having a red balloon painted on your fuselage.

The Barking Mouse

Ай бұрын

@Kenneth Draper The M50 shells auto detonate at 2300 meters... they don't detect anything. Which is why I said start the pass at 3000 meters. So your comment is irrelevant.

Kenneth Draper

Ай бұрын

@The Barking Mouse because the cannon shells just pass through the balloon because there is nothing strong enough to trigger the fuse to explode the shell, and you cannot poke enough holes to knock the balloon down in a reasonable amount of time.

srussert28

Ай бұрын

98 more to go

Frank Dank

Ай бұрын

@Bad Asserien How so? Did anything prove this was its limit?

The Barking Mouse

Ай бұрын

@Joel Argo wrong. That was a different situation and ammunition type.

The incident with the Canadian weather balloon was different. That weather balloon was made with a mylar envelope and did not have a prestressed skin. Poking holes in it only allowed the helium to leak out through the small holes and it descended only slowly. This balloon had a rubber envelope under presetress. As we saw, the peforation of the envelope with a single Aim-9X (with no warhead) resulted in the bursting of the entire envelope. A single 20mm round would have killed it. The bigger issue is that the F-22 would have to get pretty close to the balloon while traveling fast through thin air. Under these scenarios, it's hard to ensure the jet doesn't fly through the debris field after the gun shot. The minimum turn radius of an F-22 at 62,000 ft ASL is about 15,000 ft, which means if it started a break turn from 2000 ft range (~the effective range of the M61), it'd only be able to get about 130 ft off its straight line path by the time it merges with the balloon. Considering the Balloon was something like 200 ft in diameter, that'd be cutting it very close. It'd be incredibly embarassing if the balloon scored a mutual kill on the F-22 sent to pop it.

Drew Young

Ай бұрын

@Gaming Rex is not 20 years away, I've personally seen and taken pics of the laser system on the AC130 Ghostrider. It will be tested summer of 2023.

Duck Toller

Ай бұрын

Helicopters travel slower but I guess they cannot fly that high?

Jim W

Ай бұрын

@Efficient RVer (formerly Hybrid Life) I am sure the USAF isn't configured to routinely take on high altitude balloons. And the weapons we have, it turned out, worked just fine.

American Minutemen

Ай бұрын

Please, check your calculations. The suggestion of 130 feet seems to be off by a factor of around 10. Assuming that the 15,000 foot minimum turn radius is correct, and assuming a short 2,000 foot range before initiating a turn, the aircraft, without climbing nor descending would still miss the debris by around, perhaps 1,274 feet, if I'm not mistaken.

American Minutemen

Ай бұрын

Please, check your calculations. If I'm not mistaken that 130 feet suggestion is off by a factor of around 10. Assuming that the 15,000 foot minimum turn radius is correct, and assuming a short 2,000 foot range before initiating a turn, the aircraft, without climbing nor descending would still miss the debris by around 1,274 feet.

Happy birthday, Alex! Thanks for taking the time being it’s your birthday week to produce yet another good episode. I’m wondering if the balloon this time around was just a way for the Chinese to not only gauge the U.S. response time, but also to have an “excuse” to engage more aggressively U.S. and allies’ aircraft in the South China Sea.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Thank you, I can’t express how appreciative I am for your channel. Your passion not only shows, but many of us who work in your communtiy, I’m presuming of course, are very appreciative for all you’ve done and we hope will do for us in the many years to come. Sincerely. Bill

WreckinCrew

Ай бұрын

@Bill You should always take anything you get from any source with a grain of salt until all info has been fully backed, verified, and confirmed. Just cause it's US Military based doesn't mean it's accurate or true. Food for thought Bill.....

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

I still love that the F-22 has a kill mark now.

A Frog

Ай бұрын

50 Billion well spent :p

Richard Willson

Ай бұрын

@gamingrex2930 there are hundreds. If you want one name, "James Mcudden VC" springs to mind. A WW1 fighter ace who was part of the birth of military aviation in the Royal Flying Corps. In his book, he describes shooting down several balloons. It was done a fair few times by the RFC in WW1. In WW2 there were also baloon kills. The pilots who shot balloons down back then also had to put themselves in quite a lot of danger doing so. No "fire and forget" self guiding BVR missiles there to help.

AussieFan

Ай бұрын

@Richard Willson Agreed mate!

Roger Bennett

Ай бұрын

Hitting a balloon doesn't seem like a kill to brag about

Question Once a balloon, of any nation, leaves its international borders, does it lose the right as a sovereigns protection? Seems the frequent air challenges over the Aleutian’s and Bering Straits would have settled the question. Thank Alex. Your one of the best. Tom.

Nathalie Sinovich

Ай бұрын

@Inspadave The 100km is just assumed , Above FL600 is unregulated. The K-line is Russia claim once they found out about U2 trips.. Russia wanted it waived sometimes when they wanted to launch space satellites across a neighbor's borders. Vertical boundaries are really debateable after FL600.

Inspadave

Ай бұрын

Go check out the Legal Eagle channel. There is a video that answers your question.

Thomas Secure name

Ай бұрын

@Flash Gordon By some accounts or conventions 100km or 60-62 miles space begins. Can’t give a citation though.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

@Wreckin crew: How far up does air space become space space?

Happy birthday! Also, I am glad you took the time to make this capsule. It's unbelievable how so many weapon 'specialist' has appeared out of no where to spread their BS. Especially since the beginning of the russo/Ukrainian war.

Chuck8541

Ай бұрын

@Exarch Gaming And bingo. He stated in the vid, they shot/would've shot at the payload of the balloon - because balloons are not good targets, and you wouldn't want the missile to fly right through it. Wrong again. Look at the high res photos right AFTER the strike. Payload completely intact, panels and all. They hit the balloon, and the debris we see in the videos/photos are shreds of the balloon, just scattering. Not the payload disintegrating. My guy, I'm not your enemy. I was just saying we shouldn't take peoples word as gospel. Whether it's a general blowing smoke up our rears, or a youtuber just...blindly, or relatively and allegedly, more informed than the average joe - defending actions of one. We all make mistakes, agreed? I'm sure you're smart enough to know/understand we can't blindly believe what a general tells us, right? So then why would you blindly believe a youtuber, that is just defending what the untrustworthy general says? No adversary on the planet would've let us fly stuff over their mainland. They would've destroyed it asap. Why are we, or anyone, defending the actions of a leader, and military, that did? Do you really believe over every easy bumf@ck state the ballooon flew over, it was a threat to people on the ground if it was shot down? Man, especially if they're shooting the balloon - and not the payload - it's not gonna fall 60 miles away from point of impact just because it was high. That thing is coming almost straight down. Simply put, nobody wants to admit it was a mistake to allow it overflight of the country, and are thus doing their best to rationalize, and defend the poor decisions, of our military, and it's civilian leadership. Dude, I may be just a randomer on the internet, but I am your brother in arms against adversaries. I'm not here to defend anyones decisions, I just want to keep america safe. And allowing overflight of an adversary technology was just plain wrong. Anyways, have a great day, man.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Chuck8541

Ай бұрын

@Exarch Gaming Yeah, I agree with that assessment. I'm just saying he's made a couple mistakes over the years as well. Nobody is perfect.

Exarch Gaming

Ай бұрын

@Chuck8541 his subscriber count is irrelevant, the fact is he's reliable and credible. he's shown that repeatedly over the years.

Exarch Gaming

Ай бұрын

@Luigi/MR L Gaming exactly, like the guy above acting like he knew the exact composition and construction of the balloon like he was the first person to get eyes on it.

Happy birthday and fantastic work! I always appreciate your sober and thorough accounting of the facts that we do know and your clear explanations and best guesses for the gaps in our knowledge. Always appreciate a good debunking too!

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Thanks, Alex, for a great analysis of what has become a huge media sensation. You and Ward Carroll have put out the best, factual, non-emotive report on this that puts other "journalism" efforts to shame.

What a great point you mentioned at the end of the video. Immediately taking out the balloon would absolutely give away our tactics for taking out a threatening target. Well said

Happy Birthday, Alex!! Thank you for taking the time to explain this well, technically and well researched. Your explanations of this whole thing just makes sense.

This whole episode also remind me the Japanese balloon bombing attempt toward the end of WW2. I cant remember how many launch they did but apparently they did (Japan) compile records back then. They tried this after somebody noticed that the main stream above Japan also roughly cover North America. The Japanese situation was hopeless and already, they knew the potential of damages due to bombing would be minimal but they did anyway. Expecting some kind of trauma to the American public, and hopefully the public would pressure the authorities to stop the war. Pretty hopeless attempt I may say.

Samy Fay

Ай бұрын

@John C Thank you John but so what? Wikipedia... Where anybody can cut and paste shit they don't know about. It's way too easy. Anyway. Myself an history fan, I read quite a few books from WW2 some time ago. So memory faults are a possibility. But still. I'm sticking by what I've said already. And beside, some replies to my comments even contain questionable information.

John C

Ай бұрын

The link to a Wikipedia article, for more detail: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb

d naylor

Ай бұрын

@Samy Fay several people were actually killed but because the USA kept a tight lid on the whole thing the Japanese thought it was a total failure... the systems they used were very clever in the way they worked and considering they were mainly using doped paper for their balloons (some were fabric) it was actually very successful flight wise...

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Thanks for answering the one question I had, Finally! I couldn't find any other explanations of why they used a Sidewinder instead of just gunning the envelope. I thought the missile would potentially do more damage to the balloon's surveillance package, and just couldn't wrap my head around it.

Jason Peasley

Ай бұрын

@Flash GordonFirst, I live in the only state bombed by the Japanese during the war. I've heard of it. Secondly, you're insinuating more tired conspiracies in the comments of a video specifically posted to dispel such conspiracies with actual facts. Take your snide comments elsewhere.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Grover

Ай бұрын

Also, getting rounds that high might not have been easy for an F-22, at least not without revealing the actual service ceiling of the aircraft and maybe even intentionally entering a stall by shooting through it to get closer and the right attitude. (As much of a waste as it seems to use a missile to bring it down, imagine risking the loss of a Raptor instead. Yes, they'd have plenty of altitude in which to recover, but shit could happen.) Note that the high end of the altitude range the Pentagon gave for the balloon at the point it was shot down was 65k feet, 7k higher than the F-22 when it fired the missile.

Braxeton

Ай бұрын

They also say the AIM-9X used had an inert warhead to also help mitigate the damage done to the balloon's equipment so they could scavenge more intact stuff from the debris to study.

Great clarifications for the less-well informed. I had wondered only about :"why not use the cannon" ? You've answered that! Now what we want to know from an expert's viewpoint, is what the spying and controlling payload really consisted of. Guess we'll have to wait another week or two before the pentagon releases those details.

I saw a report yesterday that the -9X could get a lock since it used, not only IR detecting, but could lock on different shades of light. This Winder was inert, no warhead, so the package could be recovered.

Brandon H

Ай бұрын

So basically it was a big dart?

Ever443

Ай бұрын

At least it wasn’t the 300k version I hope

Hey Alex, great video, as always. You said that officials had "mitigated" the balloon's ability to transmit intelligence. Would that possibly be from persistent jamming by say a Growler, or maybe ground transmitters at sensitive sites? Or, could it have been fried by a microwave weapon or device like the CHAMP missile payload? A bit of a tangent: AIM-9 shots are Fox 2 vs radar guided being Fox 1, yet, the Sidewinder was developed in 1949 and the Sparrow in the 50's. Would it not be reversed?

Kardinal aka Jeff Stevens

Ай бұрын

Jamming yes. Probably from an F-35 or a Close Compass

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Thank you for the great video. Been subscribed for awhile, but just leaving my first comment today. In addition to the RC-135, I'd heard that there were also up to three U-2S aircraft also flying around and even above the balloon at different times. In addition to possible jamming, how could they be used to observe it? Has a U-2 ever observed other airborne objects from above, yet, so close to its own altitude?

COS-911

Ай бұрын

U2s can load electronic/signals intel payloads too

Steven Nicovich

Ай бұрын

They can slave their onboard camera's to the balloon. They would probably be tasked to image the payload to determine the sensor suite it had.

Between you, ward Carroll, and C.W lemoine., We are actually getting some accurate answers to what actually happened, and for that I say thank you to all three of you. For looking at not only the political side of this but actual response and real-world terms based on experience, and research as to why this was done the way it was

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Eric Luffy

Ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing those other channels. I'm subscribed to them, but always great when folks help get the right names out to those denied by the Algorithm gods. Note that "Sub Brief" did a good 10 minute video on the mechanics of the balloon itself. Forgive the bubble head LOL, but was pleased with his work on this subject for sure.

Very well explained like always sir. Thank you!

Skyler Rutherford

Ай бұрын

@Flash Gordon Yeah Japan's were so much worse. That's why i get why they shot it down over the sea. Still don't know why they used an F-22 for it of all planes but it's cool

Tie

Ай бұрын

@Flash Gordon the balloon put up a good fight against the F-22 😨

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

This balloon was shot down only miles away from where I live (like less than 25 miles) and I didn't even know about it or get to see it because by the time I already heard about it it was already well over with. Interesting to see Myrtle Beach get plastered all over the news and thankfully not for facepalming reasons this time...

Great informative coverage. To the point and sincere.

Great video! Thanks for the timely and quality analysis.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

lol, hell of a birthday present. a Strike Eagle took out a HIND, an A10 took out two Hips, the Viper and a cow, and now a Raptor took a balloon. as always, a thoughtful, lucid, rational analysis. great job.

MoonBeamLaser

Ай бұрын

A-10 took out what?

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

I was actually wondering why they didn't pepper the balloon using the Vulcan. Good info, thank you for this video! :D

The presence of the Rivet Joint is really the tell-all, especially in Canadian airspace. That screams exploitable intelligence and likely offers the clearest reason it wasn't shot down earlier--they wanted to spend all the time they could with it.

Regarding the rcs, you talked about the balloon but forgot to consider the metal structure payload slung underneath which was over 20m in length.

Thanks for the great video. Lots of people I know are just taking this as another excuse to say that everything Biden does is stupid. While he certainly has many short comings, one thing he's good at is surrounding himself with smart people. I knew this balloon situation wasn't as simple as everyone seems to think it is.

finally someone who his telling the truth. As an retired air force, tons of people were asking me all kinds of questions from totally ridiculous and made up scenarios from the news outlets trying to profit from this to legit concerns. I can now refer them to this realistic and well presented video. Outstanding work, i am now a subscriber

r. p.

Ай бұрын

@Punch Them You could have requested some info and mentioned why you obviously don't agree with me. An exchange of ideas most of the time leads to better conclusion but, I see in you case it seems to be if he does think like me then; hang first, ask questions later or not at all. BTW this is not an attack on you but merely food for thought. Cheers

The Last Latchkey Kid

Ай бұрын

@r. p. Well neighbor, thank you for you service. Please ignore the trolls, because the vast majority of us understand and agree with your comment .

r. p.

Ай бұрын

you are correct, I am French Canadian, I would have even more problems if I had to write it in french at this point. I find myself mixing languages and what comes out isn't always perfect.

The Last Latchkey Kid

Ай бұрын

@Paul Oakwood Maybe he/she retired from a non-US or allied Air Force? Couldn’t it also be, like so many others these days, that grammar isn’t a priority?

All I really want to know is what kind of instruments they equipped on it. Would give hints for what they were looking for or are interested in. Obv we don't know if/when we'll ever get to know much about it, but if you ever find anything out, i'm interested, Sandboxx. Thanks for your work!

Thank you for an informative video. Information that the mainstream media did not discuss.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Quickly becoming one of the trusted, honest, thorough, and accurate KZread channels out there. Cheers to you, my man! Your content is incredibly informative, well laid out and very easy to listen to. Well done, Sir!

Iso Linear

Ай бұрын

Except the balloon was first detected over Alaska, not Montana - so there are a lot of holes in Sandbox's story - not least of which is that there have been several such balloons, and none of the Governors were notified. Most of the Military base commanders including the ICBM base commander in Montana stated that he had no knowledge when questioned by the Governors.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Great video at the right time! Thanks for answering the question why they used a AA missle instead of the canons!

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

It is disturbing to the extent that the other three balloons were not discovered until just recently when old data was reviewed.

Eric Luffy

Ай бұрын

I dont recall where it was said that the old balloons were only discovered afterward. But I posed the question of exactly when this balloon was first discovered. Publicly it seems to have been released FEB 1st, but I would like to know when we picked it up visually or on radar.

one of the better air power chans, and like the approach . . . this song came to mind when I got confirmation of the F-22 . . . 99 knights of the air, Ride super high-tech jet fighters. Everyone's a superhero. Everyone's a Captain Kirk, With orders to identify, To clarify and classify, Scrambling the summer sky, 99 red balloons go by

Thanks, Alex for your well-written, balanced video. I don’t like much the current administration does, and was shocked we would allow this balloon to traverse the entire continent before taking it down. I’m a denizen and native o fine of the sparsely populated States. I really wanted to see that spy balloon destroyed. The military’s reasoned, cautious, intelligence gathering approach makes sense, as you presented it. I appreciate your work.

Well done, Alex. I had no idea there were so many silly conspiracy theories going on about the balloon. Thanks for stating the obvious - sometimes we need to do that to reassure people who do not have a military/intelligence background.

Glad to learn of the 1998 attempt to take a balloon out with 20mm cannon fire. Twitter was awash with 20mm cannon noise. and also the risks of dropping 20mm chunks of metal all over the place.

God himself

Ай бұрын

@Ryan Lynch however if you drop a pen down the state building it will be lethal

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Ryan Lynch

Ай бұрын

That myth was proved false

K. H.

Ай бұрын

@AnthroFuturism yes dropping a penny from the empire state building can be lethal, same with 20mm rounds, at least the ones that don't self destruct.

Well done! Great analysis and very thorough!

Alex…thanks for being a calming, rational voice in the bizarre world known as KZread.

It seems like an AIM missile would potentially do a lot of damage to the payload (making it a lot harder to figure out what it was) and that's before it fell some 60K feet into the ocean. Could a slower moving drone (e.g. global hawk) have been used to 'catch' the balloon and force it down in a more controlled way?

K. H.

Ай бұрын

@triadwarfare it crashed into it at high speed, and no, not just into the balloon part, the coupling that held the payload. It probably fragmented on impact

A friend of a friend

Ай бұрын

@triadwarfare Presumably it fell to the earth so probably not.

triadwarfare

Ай бұрын

@William P would recycling be possible since it didn't explode?

William P

Ай бұрын

They removed the warhead. It was essentially an expensive pointy stick.

Alan B

Ай бұрын

It was mentioned in some other reports that the missile was not armed with an explosive warhead to reduce the collateral damage.

thanks alex. would be great if we can discuss the altitude aspect of this incident. I keep reading conflicting reports on the plausible altitude of this type of balloon, versus the operating ceiling of F22 and AIM-9x. Has the balloon been always traversing US territory in the past few days at an altitude unattainable by F-22? Could the balloon been traveling at an even higher altitude given all the physics laws? What could USAF have done if the balloon has been traversing at say 30,000m (if physically possible at all)? Separately, from a spying perspective, what would be purpose to just let the balloons loitering around the world with no or little control of its direction? What are the mechanisms that can be used to steer the balloon? a lot of questions, but thanks in advance if you can help us to address some of these. love your channel as always!

sneakerset

Ай бұрын

@Eric Luffy All I could find was: Alaskasnewssource / KTUU / Sen Dan Sullivan comments on military response Also, Lockheed Martin's Long Range Discrimination Radar /LRDR is operational as of Dec.22,2022. Part of the MDA upgrade at Clear Space Force Base,Alaska. source: (YT) Missile Defense Agency / LRDR. cheers

sneakerset

Ай бұрын

Manned balloon flight altitude record is Alan Eustace - 135,890 ft. (41.42km), and unmanned balloon record is BU 60-1 at 173,900 ft. altitude (53 km) - set on 14 June 2002. source wiki

Eric Luffy

Ай бұрын

Funny to find that all the actual questions posted so far don't seem to be answered yet as though we are buried in the comment thread. Look at Sub Brief Channel on KZread. He put a good video together explaining at least the balloon mechanics regarding what it could do and how they operate. I was looking for more confirmation that it actually entered thru Alaska, when we first noticed it, how it was initially reported and what countermeasures were used at what point in that timeline

It surprised me how very few people know how dangerous it would have been shooting it down over land no matter how sparsely populated the area. They constantly kept it within the jetstream for that reason and to make it look like it really was out of their control. If you have any opportunity to study a reflective radar in an area experiencing a tornado, you'd see how far complete pieces of buildings can travel. 30 miles or more depending, and the winds at that altitude are so strong and unpredictable that even steel and glass from the balloon and the missile, could have crossed state lines and remained in the air compromising flight paths of commercial airlines for hours. Updrafts and downdrafts, that's how hail is formed.

When I heard all of this from the news, I was suspecting exactly what you were saying. Not only was I right on the money, you informed me on details even beyond what I heard or expected. Thank you for such an incredible video.

Dynestis

Ай бұрын

Ok.

Zhou Bai Dinh

Ай бұрын

Only Chyner has the atmospheric GRAPPLER!

Thanks Alex , your knowledge is awesome!

@Sandboxx - What I still can't figure out was why the Air Force didn't shoot it down over the Alaskan Continental Shelf. If they've already had these balloons pass over before, what new information would they be trying to gain?

Luigi/MR L Gaming

Ай бұрын

Yeah that’s an issue.

Happy birthday Alex and thank you for a first class brief on the situation.

Punch Them

Ай бұрын

LOL.... Alex do you work for the CCP?

This is the first video about this incident I have seen that actually explains anything. Thanks!

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Dolores Hamilton

Ай бұрын

Watch Climate Viewer on KZread. He does a pretty good job showing the balloon & its path. He is a sky watcher.

Hey Alex. The way to bring down a balloon is by using another balloon. Balloon 2 has adhisives like tape or glue which sticks to balloon 1, then they both come down using a decent mechanism such as deflation or a wire.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

To disperse chemical or biological weapon, they wouldn't disperse it from 60,000 ft. They would drop canisters to the ground and then disperse after impact...we wouldn't know if some canisters had been dropped already, would we???

Stephen Wilkinson

Ай бұрын

THIS - exactly what I came here to say! ( with the addition that the canisters would not need to physically impact the ground, but disperse from a suitable altitude) Furthermore, the payload would not have to be bioweapons but listening tech, amplifiers, anything

Jake Aurod

Ай бұрын

Low RCS thermos?

Thank you. I've been wondering about the size of the Balloon's radar cross section.

An unidentified high-altitude, long-endurance airship spotted near a former US naval base in the Philippines has raised concerns that some countries in the region are using stratospheric airships to collect military intelligence. Images of the stratospheric airship - allegedly taken in Pangasinan province, about 100km (62 miles) from Subic Bay in the northern Philippine island of Luzon - were first posted on Facebook last weekend. The pictures were deleted, but not before they were also shared on Twitter. There is no evidence that the airship was from China, although its design appears to be similar to several unmanned types developed by the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China’s Special Aircraft Research Institute and other scientific academies. These have been displayed at the biannual AirShow China in Zhuhai, in the southern province of Guangdong, since 2014.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Great video and Happy Birthday. Btw thanks for explaining the gun situation. I didn't know about Canada's experience with one.

I think the reason is that, raptors never got an actual kill (until now), &, when the Chinese balloon showed up, higher ups decided to send the jet There are many factors surrounding it; like fighter availability, that type of jet not having any real air-to-air kill, or it just so happened to be up in the air; but what I said is the most likely case. Feel free to correct me

Honestly, Alex, you're usually decent enough; you erred on this one. I'm glad to hear we had Rivet Joint aircraft following along; I hadn't heard that. I assume you mean they jammed any radio transmissions the Chinese intended collecting. Even so, ...we have demonstrated our response to flight through our airspace: We will do nothing for 6 days. We'll follow it, seek to jam it's signals, try to gather signals intelligence. We'll try to hide things from it. ...So China now knows they can spend rather little money and expend little risk, yet force us to spend hundreds of man-hours. Incidentally, they also can learn something else: We can't use bullets to shoot down a slow-moving object at 60,000 feet. I find it tough to believe we couldn't shoot it down over land. We establish no fly zones and cordons routinely; it wouldn't be that hard to clear a several-square-mile patch of land. I think we'll wind up expending as much effort to retrieve debris from underwater as we would have on land. In brief, we've been played like a fiddle.

It’s always a good day when Sandbox News posts

Great video Alex. It puts down much idiotic comments heard out there. Good work Sir! Also, would you work on a better video about the B21- passed the one you did about its reveal? Thanks

This is just great content, I love this channel

Do any photographs of the Chinese balloon show what the payload it was carrying looked like? I know that there were solar collectors attached to it,but what about what was hanging under them?

By far the best breakdown I've seen on the balloon thing.

What is remarkable about the balloon incident is China has asserted its physical presence well within America’s sovereign borders. How both sides respond in the aftermath will determine whether China-US tensions worsen further and if we can expect potential future provocations between the two sides in the air, as well as the seas.

The DCS community is having a field day with this story with marvelous F-22 V Chinese Battle Balloon dogfights popping up everywhere in the last 2 days :) Growling Sidewinder has just release another one which is well worth a look. kzread.info/dash/bejne/pKV6j6N-oLjRirA.html

In The Merge, they commented on the second reason the gun wasn't chosen: the little door that opens on the fuselage to shoot might malfunction at those heights and either not open or remain opened, thus enhancing the Raptor's radar signature.

Thanks man. I know nothing about these balloons or their capabilities. Puts my mind at ease.

i love how the 9x got spoofed by 1950s or 60s tech a few years ago but at the same time is capable of homing in on the balloon despite its low heat signature

I love your channel. Informative and fact based. Not opinion. So refreshing. Keep it up!

smig95

Ай бұрын

@Flash Gordon how does your comment apply to my response? I was complimenting the man on having an informative channel on You Tube.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Well analyzed, though I still question the use of the Sidewinder which looks to have locked onto the balloon payload rather than the balloon envelope. Surprised to hear it was an inert warhead, because the highest resolution video I've found of it, clearly shows a bright explosion below the balloon, for just one frame of video. Maybe the missile hit a self-destruct charge? In which case, maybe that is what took out the balloon envelope, and gives the Chinese hope that exactly what they wanted destroyed, was destroyed. I definitely would have let some F-15 cannons have a crack at it first. Published ceiling 15,000 feet higher than the published ceiling for the F-22, its cannon holds just under twice the number of 20mm rounds, and it's not a limited-edition fighter. And it's not as if an F-15 can't fire a Sidewinder. Neither of the major advantages (stealth and supersonic cruise) was needed or used on this mission, and one major disadvantage (lower ceiling) hurt the effort by being below rather than above or level with the balloon. It makes me suspect that the F-22 was chosen to showcase our flagship fighter and give it a kill. That was a terrible reason to choose it. If they were so sure that poking a hundred holes in the balloon would not pop it, but just release some of its gas, then why didn't they do so over land and let it drift down slowly to the ground? Might have been able to even capture and tow it after it descended to an altitude where special forces in helicopters are effective. Accidentally popping it and having it come down in one piece over a sparse area, is quite a different risk than blowing it to bits and having debris for miles over land. If they were worried about self-destruct charges turning it into a bomb, then they wouldn't have used an inert warhead on the Sidewinder, would they? I fully expect the final story to somehow use evidence or fear of self-destruct charges as the rationale for doing precisely what they did, true or not. In any case, I consider it absolutely an error to not try F-15 cannons, from near/at/above the balloon altitude, on the middle of the balloon, even if only a minute before letting a Sidewinder fly, if worried about a narrow time window to get it down in the middle of the 12 mile zone offshore.

The F15 owns the record for highest intercept when it shot down that satellite.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Steven Nicovich

Ай бұрын

Technically doesn't count since that wasn't a test and not against a hostile target. Also since it was an exo-atmosphere it would be a space intercept rather than air. Just my opinion on it. But as far as official kills go, tests and training don't count.

I really appreciate the in-depth analysis from your usual videos. I'm not a hyperactive 15 year old, i prefer videos over a minute. Way too many shorts videos ruined my inbox. This ain't Tiktok.

Just out of curiosity does the F-22 gun have any height restrictions? I saw some posts that seemed to say so elsewhere but can't verify.

I was more wondering how hard it was shooting down such a slow moving balloon with a very fast fighter jet??

Great job. Thanks. People sure are worked up about this. I've heard that it zigzagged (how?) and hovered (how?) over our secret AFBs and used ground penetrating radar to see our airplanes hidden in bunkers which is surely all hyperbole. China may have predicted favorable wind currents and maybe they changed the altitude to catch a more favorable current but it seemed like there was no propulsion or guidance. Would have been nice to shoot it down over land to preserve the electronics from salt water and make retrieval much simppler.

david fleming

Ай бұрын

​@Stu Bur Source? Link? And as @sonictech1000 mentions how?

sonictech1000

Ай бұрын

@Stu Bur I'm pretty skeptical of this circling or loitering business. It seems like a propulsion system capable of doing this, given the winds at that altitude, would have been visible. Plus, where would it get all that energy from?

Stu Bur

Ай бұрын

There has been independent verification of the flight path that shows it circling around sensitive sites. This wasn’t the first time.

5:40 does that mean the Sidewinder is that sensitive to the difference between the background and a target, like the balloon?

Thank you, Alex. You have largely laid out my thoughts on the matter. The internet critters at the time were quite the "thick" mess to trudge through. What was disturbing was the seditious talk. Some people seemed quite emboldened. Thank you for the great military aircraft journalism.

It seemed like an overkill to destroy the balloon after it essentially was on its way over the sea. I can imagine this was done either for domestic political reasons (Biden having some kind of victory) or maybe for intelligence reasons (to recover the airship to understand its capabilities and ways to counter it in the future).

I had thought that they used the missile instead of the gun because the balloon was still thousands of feet above the F-22's ceiling and so the plane could not get a straight shot at it with its cannons.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Finally! 👏 A balloon! Yes! Worth all the money spent in the f-22 programme! 👍

To admit I was a little frustrated that they didn't shoot it down sooner but deep down I knew there was a really good reason why they didn't. Thanks for reiterating that in your points. Great video!

Let’s design a practical and cost efficient balloon interception reconnaissance weapon. My suggestion is a version of rapid dragon and a cruise missile but using something more like a baby U2 suicide drone. Once transported by cargo aircraft to the area of contention the drone is deployed and achieves altitude to locate and then identify the object. When the reconnaissance is complete the suicide mission is employed to down the object. This could be done by various methods, it could be just flown into the object. It could even grapple the object, deploy a steerable parachute to better deliver the object to the ground? GPS locator beacon would be tracking it after it hit the ground. Cargo aircraft could also drop a recovery crew to secure the object immediately. Costs? Compared to what we are using now? F22, F15, U2, RC135, plus whatever else vs one C130, drone, maybe a airborne recovery crew. Thoughts?

The Drive just confirmed a U-2 did a bunch of sigint over the balloon 😆 Can’t believe it’s still in use and finding new applications. Also happy bday! Edit: The ASM-135 is likely the highest engagement from a plane, the F-15A 77-0084 destroyed the Solwind P78-1 satellite.

Gabriel McMillan

Ай бұрын

@Second Amendment But we used to have a treaty with the Russians to allow for those kinds of over-flights, as part of the strategic arms treaty confirmation process. Does China have a treaty with us that allows us to hover balloons over Beijing and Hong Kong on a regular basis?

Dieter MacPherson

Ай бұрын

@Second Amendment not over land - those intercepts are over water and nearing territorial airspace. Canada and the US intercept them long before they get over land.

Second Amendment

Ай бұрын

@Dieter MacPhersonThe Russians have flown over the US many times. Most of the time it was in Alaska.

Dieter MacPherson

Ай бұрын

@Jacob Dewey yeah only other time enemy aircraft have flown over the continental us as far as I know was Fu-Go balloons in ww2 from Japan. Don’t know if one was ever shot down.

Jacob Dewey

Ай бұрын

That was a US satellite and was a weapons test, not an intercept. This is the highest intercept and kill of a different nation (also the first over the contiguous US if I'm not mistaken)

Happy Birthday Alex! Thanks for clearing up some of the misinformation 'floating' around regarding China's party balloon 🎈 🤣

It is possible that Gary Powers may have reduced altitude prior to being shot down, or have been hit at higher altitude and thus reducing altitude as a result. This info is apparently still classified so not sure this shoot down can be used for comparion. When I worked in Moscow a while back I remember walking into a room at the Moscow Military museum, and there to the right of the doirway was a pile of aircraft trash. Part of an inket and some other aircraft pieces. It looked fzmiliar to me and I went over to look at it in deyail. Turns out it was from Gary Power's U2. Pretty fascinating.

Mark Bailey

Ай бұрын

Yeah, when I worked in Beijing for three years, I hit all of the military museums and at least two of them had U-2' wreckage in thier collections. So at least two were shot down over China that I never heard about nor did I ever read anything in US papers. As a pilot and an avid aviation participant, I would have probably heard about them from someone or in some publication.

Supposedly the missile they used didn't have it's explosives on it. It just ran in to it. They didn't want to damage the electronics of the balloon so they can try to recover it.

I am just puzzled why the Air Force didn't use the F16's based at Shaw Air Force Base only a hundred miles from the shoot down site. The F16's and F22's service ceiling is listed the same height according to the Air Force's fact sheets.

Thanks for the video you confirmed my suspicions as to why this got to the point it did

The highest Intercept was done by a Lone F-15 Eagle utilizing a Anti-Sat Missile during the Reagan Admin.

Steven Nicovich

Ай бұрын

Tests and training don't count.

Dieter MacPherson

Ай бұрын

@K. H. it took out a sat

K. H.

Ай бұрын

A test is not an intercept.

sneakerset

Ай бұрын

The sat. target was a semi--functioning science sat., and they lit it up for the test.

Riff Bear

Ай бұрын

F-15 is such a freaking beast

Happy birthday Alex and thank you for the awesome videos.

Let me ask you this, why couldn’t it be just a weather/ atmospheric research balloon? Second, in the reading I did about this incident I came across GBS (geostationary balloon satellites), could you provide more information on this?

CAP198462

Ай бұрын

@Kenneth Draper not necessarily, it was already at or above FL 600 when it entered the US ADIZ. Those notification requirements to notify ATC and get clearance only apply to balloons launched from the ground in the US that are expected to burst and return to the ground. For how it was operating it met the minimum requirements. Slight correction: above FL 600 is effectively unregulated by the FAA, it’s above the limit of class A airspace. The balloon was at FL 620.

Kenneth Draper

Ай бұрын

Because when you launch a weather/research balloon you announce it to the world by issuing NOTAMS (notice to airmen and Mariners) so that everyone would know to keep a lookout for it since having your balloon hit by a 767 would ruin everyone's day.

My two concerns with this event are this: 1, you thought about bioweapon dispersion from such a altitude. They could’ve dropped it and detonated it at a lower level. Obviously, they already assessed this wasn’t the case, the US is smarter than that. 2, they allowed the F-22’s first air to-air kill to be a balloon. Come on! Save it for something better!🤣🤣🤣

The emp aspect is the one I believe. I don’t think they had anything on these but he skips over a lot of technical data…. The nuke for an EMP are relatively small and are detonated around 60-70k feet. One over Chicago would “wipe out” the entire eastern sea board.

I'm curious... Would those services that track flights using ADS-B be able to identify this without being registered on the FAA network? Especially if they are a citizen hosting an antenna? Or is this way too high on altitude

Eric Luffy

Ай бұрын

Great question.

NoMore Constipation

Ай бұрын

@Realizm Ahh makes sense. I wasn't sure if I was thinking about it clearly. Especially when it comes to military craft. Thanks

Realizm

Ай бұрын

That requires a transponder. From what I've heard, this didn't have one so no ADS-B data would be available. Other balloons that aren't spying do use ADS-B and it is pretty neat to see how high they go (and where).

I think Gary Powers might have the record for highest intercept.

K. H.

Ай бұрын

Might have BEEN the record since he was what was intercepted. But I am pretty sure that was SAM, not air to air

Not a question; your video addressed many relevant (and irrelevant) questions very nicely. I, however have an additional point to make. The balloon could hae been carrying about 500 pounds of plain, highly radioactive dust. True, 500 pounds of such dust is seemingly not much of a threat. UNLESS the canister carrying such a payload was dropped over /imto a populated area like a city, or a critical area like a fresh water reservoir. My idea, in either case would be to use a pre-programmed delivery container which would be dropped directly over the target, pre-programmed to start releasing/spraying the radioactive dust into air at an altitude of approximately 200 meters or so. The released dust would then drift down like a barely visible mist that would then coat anything/anyone that it landed one. In the case of a living mammal like a human/dog/cat/etc, it would be inhaled. Depending upon the concentration, the irradiated individual would suffer immediate effects within minutes, or even up to a year after if the concentration was low enough to delay radiation poisoning effects. When such an attack is finally realized, the Fall-out (pardon the pun) will be minor on a nationwide scale, but it would be a severe social and political disaster for the sitting administration, especially if the administration is perceived to have done little (as you pointed out, the Sloppy Joe Biden administration was actually doing something ... very passively ... for "intelligence gathering purposes) or nothing before my theoretical attack scenario. At worst, several thousands of people would be irradiated, with most eventually contracting various forms of cancer, and many eventually dying. I'm sure you are aware that Japan attempted to do such an attack on America back during WW2. Due to the lack of sophisticated , modern equipment, such an attack failed. If done today, however, in sufficient numbers, such an attack would at least see the sitting American administration lynched by an angry mob for betrayal of public trust. Just saying ...

I’ve seen some reports that the F-22 involved used a jhmcs as part of the intercept. I thought that the F-22 doesn’t have such a system (noted here on Sandboxx and elsewhere) due to cockpit and canopy considerations. Is this information inaccurate? If so, source?

Question would or could there have been any other way to capture the ballon . Is it possible to collect it before cashing it in the ground, in a similar way like they used to collect the old spy photos.

Great last point. I haven't heard any other media source stating the benefit of using a delayed response to deny otherwise useful intel on peak reaction times.

Eric Luffy

Ай бұрын

I would say either pop it before crossing into Alaska or don't pop it. Waiting till East coast sounded more like a Bourbon commercial than a political win. All the time spent floating over Alaska and were going to say we wanted to wait till safe to be shot down makes no sense. This was a disaster for everything except the pilot painting a balloon on his plane.

considering just how hard it was to shoot down observation balloons, barrage balloons and even zeppelins in WW1 and some stuff in WW2 with gunfire its not surprising the Canadians had trouble even with larger caliber weapons, they also probably were not using tracer...

Mike Pompeo said that never heard anything about a balloon crossing our borders during his stay in the admin.

David M.S. Smith

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed that wasn’t mentioned here. Seems more like a deflection by the government.

Very knowledgeable response. Much appreciated.

Ward Carroll, a retired F-14 Tomcat RIO, has a pretty extensive video about this that also explains in more detail why they used the Sidewinder.

Flash Gordon

Ай бұрын

The USAF, chalks up its greatest victory to date, versus the terrifying Chinese balloon! 🎈😱 it’s not surveillance that the rascally Chinese are threatening. You obviously haven’t heard of Japan’s balloon bombs in WW2.

Bloody Hell! Sounds like a well-trained elite soldier who is a deadly expert in his field sent on a mission to peel potatoes at a forward operating base kitchen. "Yes Mom. I have successfully fulfilled my first mission. Sorry, I cant tell you the details of my mission due to the secret nature of my mission."