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The Evolution of Heroes - Marvel Champions
Which heroes inspire which heroes? Are they improvements on the original or just cheap copies? Join me as I delve into how heroes evolve in Marvel Champions: The Card Game!
Discord: / discord
(All card images in the video are courtesy of Cerebro developer UnicornSnuggler. Huge thanks!)
Пікірлер: 71
I really like this kind of content, would definitely love to see a part 2!
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
So you're saying you'd like to see the evolution of a video about evolution...? 😁
@Brinn12
3 ай бұрын
@@VillainTheory Followed by a discussion of the evolution of the video that evolved from a previous video about evolution....
Loved the video. I definitely find a lot more similarities between Ant-Man and Angel in how they play out even though Angel isn't getting bonuses for flipping. Although Angel could be more of a blending of Wasp + Ant-man. You should probably do a video of the evolution of Iron Man -> War Machine -> Ironheart.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
The evolution of Iron Man is already on my list! Should be fun!
The first time I saw Domino, she reminded me of a very specific deck LOTR LCG deck which involve Dain Ironfoot Spirit, which purpose was to mill cards from the top of the deck for triggering Hidden Cache, which is digging deep, and Eren Luin Miner, which is white fox. The deck also involve Gandalf to manipulate top card of the deck which is turn face up, and also Arwen for generating ressource/card draw by messing with the discard pile. You can see it in action on the Mr Underhill youtube channel, he used it a lot. The first time I saw Magik, she reminded me of Gandalf. I think that nails it. Domino is ultra specific in what she wants to do, Magik is just a powerful device that let the player customize its playstyle.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
That's super interesting, I'll try and look that up when I have more time. Sounds like a great comparison!
@jonathanpickles2946
3 ай бұрын
I was going to say the same thing. My Magick deck is Ilyana the Grey, and happens to be all basics.
It makes sense that all of the Form Heroes share much of the same DNA, just the nature of what extra forms do. Tho ive never considered Storm in that convo because her weather aren't considered forms, but the inspiration is there.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
I'm curious to see where they go next with form changing heroes, I think there's a lot of potential outside the Wasp/Ant-Man blueprint that I think they can move away from
I'd love to see an evolution video from Scenarios as well
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Good to know!
I try to think of these in terms of just being "different." If Shadowcat ended up being too close to Vision, for example, players might be less interested. I think the best example is all the multi-villain encounters. Wrecking Crew, Sinister Six, Mansion Attack, Horsemen, etc. all feel so different. Thanks VT! I always look forward to your content and decks.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
The villains will be really interesting to compare! It's really interesting to look at the multi villain scenarios especially, maybe I'll cover them some time
Awesome to see you back! Been curious to hear your opinions on the new set. I also think Magik edges Domino (although I actually prefer Magik over Domino by some distance). I was really hyped for Domino but I found there is so much going on with all the upgrades and supports that I kept missing stuff, which hurt how much I enjoyed her. Magik on the other hand feels so much simpler to pilot without sacrificing depth of decision-making and lines of play. Just allows me to put more of my (limited!) brainpower into making interesting (and fun) decisions. I think she is a brilliant design - I’m absolutely loving her!
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Thanks! Interesting thoughts on Domino and Magik. Will share mine in a video soon!
@R8C2
3 ай бұрын
@@VillainTheory Looking forward to watching that one! One thing to add on Domino vs Magik… it’s not just Domino’s upgrades/supports, it’s the sheer volume of elements in her game competing for your attention - top card of deck, face down cards (Painted Lady), support effects (most of which require being in alter-ego, so not something you habitually use every turn), cards in hand, allies that trigger off the top card, etc. I’m sure if you play Domino enough all this becomes quite intuitive. But for someone like me (who plays MC about 3/4 times a week - and therefore Domino much less frequently than that), that’s a lot of singular options for you to process in a single turn. For Magik I’m largely looking at just top card of deck, Limbo, the key upgrade(s) that are relevant to my plan for the turn (e.g. Soulsword if attacking) and the cards in my hand. There are far fewer elements competing for my attention. However, the interaction between those elements and the order you play them in opens up all kinds interesting decisions and options - it feels like you’re getting the complexity of Domino without feeling like you’ve constantly missed something (which diminishes the fun). In my mind, with Magik the designers have done a great job in mastering the art of making the complicated simple, without compromising on the depth of decision-making.
This is an interesting point. There hasn’t been a lot of power creep per se (according to some) but there has been tweaks to common patterns.
Really enjoyed this video and would love for there to be more on this topic
Hey, glad to see you post. I was wondering how you'd been.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
I'm alright! I'll probably do a channel update video soon and talk more about it all
I love your design evolution for the framing instead of "obsolete." It feels more accurate to what's actually happening with heroes in the game. How was enjoying Age of Apocalypse? Side note: your slide transitions were really cool. I was impressed by Magik becoming Star-Lord and going back to Magik.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Thanks! There's only really one hero who I feel is obsolete in this game and even that's debatable. Great feedback by the way! I only started to figure out transitions and everything recently haha. Good to know it's noticed!
@waltercardcollector
3 ай бұрын
@@VillainTheory Just curious, which hero do you think is obsolete? Is it She-Hulk (or Hulk)?
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
@@waltercardcollector It's poor old Hulk. I talk about it briefly in the Shadow of the Cast episode that D20 guests on. To comment on the other hero you mentioned, I actually really like She-Hulk nowadays!
@waltercardcollector
3 ай бұрын
@@VillainTheory Oh wow, nice!
I think your right about Bishop having more "personnality" in his gamestyle/gameplan compare to Captain Marvel. But weirdly enough, the fact that Carol is the blandest drawing machine of them all, is what makes me like her a lot in the end. It is like that bland RPG Character that you can modify to your wrestling style. She makes your aspect cards shine and combine together flawlessly. I'm glad she exist in the game for that. Kinda "spider woman but monocolor" lol.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
That makes sense and she is fun. I always enjoy playing Captain Marvel! I just tend to pick most other heroes before her personally.
This was so awesome! Great idea for a video.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Thanks!
Super happy to see you’re back! Really enjoyed the video and I can’t wait to watch your analysis on the AoA box! As a side note I was curious if you could share your favourite Rogue Justice deck? She’s my favourite X-men character alongside cyclops and I absolutely love both of your leadership decks for her but I’m looking to branch out a bit and you mentioned justice for her in your favourite hero’s video so I was curious on what that deck looks like! Thanks a lot and keep up the awesome work
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Thanks so much! As for Rogue Justice, I really enjoy the classic One Way or Another + Clear the Area + Turn the Tide combo in solo - you can use Superpower Adaptation on Justice allies to grab whichever of them you don't have in hand already to combo them ultra-reliably. She also annihilates player side schemes, so Specialized Training and Build Support are a must! For 3-4 player, nothing fancy but again you can use Superpower Adaptation to grab Even the Odds on repeat which is pretty silly. Or there's Mission Training + Game Time for her! Superpower Adaptation can grab Game Time off the many basic allies X-Men have (now with Triage and Legion) for crazy-good thwarting. I guess I just like how Justice interacts with Superpower Adaptation!
This was a good video. I'd like to see more about the evolution of heroes and villains.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
The evolution of villains would be a great topic as well!
Great video! I love this idea and have thought about this quite a bit over the years. Wasp -> Vision is one I hadn’t considered, and I am excited to hear that you’re enjoying Viz more lately!!
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Maybe... Maybe Vision is the best hero???
Great video with a lot of thought. But surprised there wasn't a bit showing the evolution from Dr Strange to Magik. Great watch, thanks for making it!
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
You're welcome! I could have mentioned Doctor Strange, perhaps in the next one!
Evolution and recycling of ideas is great for the game. As players, we each have our own preferences, and its likely that given enough "similar" hero at least one will click with us. For example, I like heroes that have a lot of turn-to-turn control over their actions, so I prefer Storm and Vision among the form-changers (over, say, Spectrum). Another thing is that Marvel characters are multi-dimensional, and a hero's Marvel Champions version may be missing some aspect that we wanted to see more of. For example, Captain America's kit doesn't have as much to do with leading the Avengers as one might like. However, further down the line we were given Cyclops and Cable heroes, who were great takes on the "leader" hero archetype. This is similar to what you mentioned with Captain Marvel and Bishop. Bishop emphasizes the energy absorption aspect that could have been a larger component of Captain Marvel's design.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
That's a pretty interesting topic in itself - what's missing from heroes? I wonder if we'll maybe get an Avengers leader type in the future.
I would love to see more videos like this!
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the feedback!
@EarthTwister
3 ай бұрын
@@VillainTheory of course!
Deep reasoned analysis is always welcome. Cheers.
Pretty cool stuff!
Quality content as usual
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Cheers!
@blackdaz3
3 ай бұрын
@@VillainTheory I wonder if you could consider Venom as an evolution of captain america. His play is focused on an item (well, three), can play any aspect, can ready, can generate resources, true that Venom doesn't really help gettin allies but I feel his big gun is as if you would always have a basic ally in the field... Anyway, just a thought
Great stuff, I love seeing this because I'm always thinking about how a new hero is similar but unique to other heroes that came before. What about villains? I would like to see a similar video but villains, and maybe another for mod sets? For example, I notice that Hela, Magneto, and Apocalypse has some similarities in their side scheme mechanics, while Rihno, Tanos and Juggernaut are heavy hitters, also En Sabah Nur feels a bit like a much better version of Loki with the multpile forms mechanics.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Nice! I love thinking about this stuff too. The villain thing is a great angle, I'd love to do a video for them one day if all goes well.
Another interesting topic: How some Marvel Champions Cards are influenced by the Lord of the Rings LCG. Examples: Gandalf Hero --> Magik. Dwarves --> Digging Deep & White Fox.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Unfortunately I haven't played much Lord of the Rings but I'd love to watch that video if someone else made it haha!
Interesting take. I feel the designers have a limited suite of tools to use and reuse them in different combinations. I do love it when they tie mechanics to theme across Heroes, and wish they did it more. The giant cards are one and making invisible untouchable characters ignore crisis etc is another. The energy use by bishop and Cap M feels right too. I'm the opposite of an expert but doesn't Cap M draw energy from suns rather than from tanking hits? I like her because of her blank slate nature. 😊 I feel whatever the inspiration for Shadowcat her actual pkay pattern built around defence is so unique she doesn't feel much like anyone else.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
I do like how they've tied mechanics across certain things like the phasing characters ignoring crisis as you say. It's fun! And I agree, I think Shadowcat is the most-different of all the form-changing heroes, very unique in how her gameplan is driven by them.
This was great and always love to hear what you have to say when it comes to Marvel Champions! Would you say Rogue is sort of an evolved Valkyrie? X-23 an upgrade from Quicksilver/Wolverine love child?
@j_atkinson
3 ай бұрын
those are my thoughts. Phoenix -> Psylocke as well in some ways. Spiderman -> Venom -> Miles Morales Black Widow -> Nebula
@alberttaco3668
3 ай бұрын
@@j_atkinson I would say Peter Parker -> Ghost Spider Hawkeye -> Miles Morales Captain America -> Rogue Now Psylocke, she Feels like a She Hulk hot fix. I know this one is a weird take, but if I would like to make She Hulk easier to play in solo, I would give her access to confuse to go alter ego easily, start the game with her two resource generator in play to make up for 4 hand sizer, and a way to turn her attack stat into her thwart stat. Yeah, that is Psylocke lol.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Love all these! I have some of them written down already for a potential second episode. I do think X-23's origins lie with Quicksilver with some inspiration from Wolverine. And I think Phoenix to Psylocke and Black Widow to Nebula are clear evolutions as well. Ghost-Spider seems like a hybrid of both Peter Parker and actually Quicksilver in my opinion!
@mjdblue7
3 ай бұрын
@@VillainTheory Nice, I'll be looking forward to the 'Next Evolution' video ;) ey? ey?
I think that you could have speak about War Machine -> Spider/Miles Morales -> Colossus : at the beginning the orage card was an expensive upgrade, then a response with some cards, to top it all a simple flip-flap. Each of them can shuffle a specific card in their deck. Nevertheless old heroes are better in my point view
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Definitely planning to talk about those heroes at some point!
Magik confuses me way more than Domino :p I feel she has even more choices (because mystics are broken mainly ^^)
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Interesting! Mystics are pretty crazy
I’m fine with Bishop resource have no ability. The ability is it’s a temporal traded.
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Agreed, I don't think it needs an ability. It was just notable that its more reminiscent of early Marvel Champions resources!
Would love to see a video about if the heroes have gotten more linear. It feels like Antman was a jack of all trades and Angel is Aerial.deck
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Great topic. I definitely think heroes generally have a stronger identity and gameplan built into them nowadays
Please more videos
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
Will do!
I thought its about the power creep in Xmen hahahah Though yeah there is also fun creep in a lot of them
@VillainTheory
3 ай бұрын
"Fun creep" is a fun term, love it haha